Ah, what a lovely read. And I have to agree with her! This story / article (Whatever it is) reminds me of a section of lyrics I used to have in my signature.
"You can live if you're willing to,
Put a stop to just what's killin you."
Linkin Park - Part of Me. Linkin Park is the awesomeness. Anyway...
I hope people have an open mind while reading this, it really is a great read!
Thanks Nay!
~Squeek
And that, oh readers, is REAL self-responsibility - NOT insisting that everyone else validate your negative experiences, but instead actually manifesting positive experience.
Quinte is one of my faves! And Nay! [:)]
Linda does rock, no doubt about that! (thanks for adding me as well.[:D]) No worries, we chatted before using her most insightful article. [;)]
She is most gracious and I hope to learn much more from her!
So, what is your nic over there, or shall I guess?..hehehehe [;)]
Nay
Hi ALL,
That is an excellent article by Quinte, very apt and directly to the point.
About 20 years ago I went to Satsang in Brisbane and learned that I had the choice about whether I was going to be sad/depressed or happy. We all learned that by choosing to be happy even when you did not feel that way in the moment, you would still begin to FEEL it. Making the conscious choice brought the feelings up from within and soon enough you were actually feeling happy. A whole transformation occured in a minute once the decision was made !
All that was required after then was to remember that it is my/your choice in every moment And that's pretty simple to remember.
Love Always.[:)]
Oh isnt it easy to spot those who have never had a serious neg problem. How to spot them is easy, they tend to be very judemental about the subject because they dont understand whats really going on. Comments inserted.
quote:
Originally posted by Nay
We are not going to beat about the bush in our exposing of the realistic facts - seek not for sympathy to your aches and pains - for this sympathy, no matter how well meant, is not going to help you at all -
Having empathy for those who are suffering is part of what makes us Human. Is she saying we should stop doing so?
quote:
on the contrary, it will merely feed your ongoing situation of self imposed negativity,
Aye and theres the rub. This article does not belong here because it automatically excludes the possibility that negs exist and may be a main factor as to why the person is experiencing such levels of negativity. I get attacked by a demon and its my fault is it?
quote:
and will, in the long run be of more destructive value to you. If I want to be of any constructive help to you at all, it is going to have to happen by attempting to bring a certain realisation to you, of what you actually are experiencing
It always amazes me how someone can make broad generalizations about someone elses experiences without ever even meeting them! lol too funny.
quote:
Whenever something flourishes and becomes abundant, it is merely because sufficient, consistent and ongoing nourishment has been given to it. Thus too is the case with negative thoughts. We all know that we have a choice to be of either negative stance or positive stance. So what is keeping you in the darkness of your own negativity?
"Its all your fault you are being tortured." What a loving and helpfully positive thing to say. But as i say, this article does not belong here because it does not take into account that there may be various circumstances the author does not even seem to be taking into consideration. i.e. negs.
quote:
Do you really enjoy being there, and thus do not seek to do something about it?
This is the clincher really. Those on this forum who believe they have a neg problem (rightly or wrongly) are here SEEKING HELP in order to "do something about it." Being judgemental against those who are suffering and seeking help is not a very positive thing is it? In fact its the opposite and certainly isn't helping anyone but those with an axe to grind who obviously do not have a serious neg problem.
If you had ever lived under a serious neg problem or serious psychic attack, believe me, it certainly makes you more empathic towards others suffering and probably less judgemental.
quote:
Perhaps you do not know how to go about improving your situation? Or are you one of those people who relish the thought of gaining sympathy over and over again from those in supportive and loving proximity?
Oh gee. Have you never heard the phrase "Judge ye not etc?". There may be the occasional person like this but i certainly disagree that *anyone* (including the author of this article) is able to judge *everyone elses* situation. With all this finger pointing perhaps the author should realise that as you point a finger at someone you have three pointing back at yourself. And some people having psychic attack will probably never tell anyone because negs will try to keep them from posting their problems to others and therefore seeking help in getting rid of them. Posts and articles like this are a prime example of how to put off neg victims from opening up to others to seek help.
(snips some because im getting tired of commenting, i think my point is already made.)
quote:
The choice of being negative is yours - keep it if you will. But if you do, keep it to yourself, for it is of your deliberate making. It is not a fair practise to expect others to constantly give of themselves towards a situation, which you yourself do not seek to remedy.
More judgemental attitudes with no empathy whatsoever. Is this person actually a human or what? And if people are in this forum posting about possible neg problems then *of course* they are seeking to remedy it.
quote:
The key to success is to stop thinking negatively. It really is that simple!
*rolls eyes* Uh huh, sure it is. Try experiencing a strong full blown neg attack and stopping it with positive thought. *shakes head* Some people just haven't a clue.
Why are you people posting this stuff in this forum? Are you doing it to help or because you are actually being petty and vindictive? Think about that question for a while.
*pause*
If you dont like the subject of negs and/or are not here to help then why bother coming to this part of the forums at all? You're not helping with articles like this and its obvious to anyone who knows even a little tiny bit about this subject that you are lucky enough not to have suffered under the Iron Heel of negs. Good for you, but please try to take a step back and think about why you are criticising those who are suffering by saying "Its all your fault!".
quote:
Perhaps you do not know how to go about improving your situation? Or are you one of those people who relish the thought of gaining sympathy over and over again from those in supportive and loving proximity?
I have more to say on this part. I have a gay friend who was abused by his Mother as a child (locking him in the cellar; tying him to a chair; and other nasty things) and who was also raped by two youths when he was nine years old. He is pretty messed up because of it and is what can be called "an attention seeker". He has psychological scars that affect him even to this day. He is also what might be termed by some as a psychic vampire on occasions.
Sometimes when hes drunk i have to use the "tough love" approach but i never, ever, accuse him of being the one responsible for his childhood abuse. Many many times ive tried to give him healing. Holding him and inwardly saying "take as much energy as you need, its ok." Being judgemental about his situation, i know for a fact, would not help him *whatsoever*. It would probably make matters worse than they already are. And i'll bet that any of the Therapists he has seen over the years has never said to him the kind of things said in the above article, for OBVIOUS reasons.
So after reading this article perhaps i'm not really helping him at all then am i?
An attack is not a choice, anymore than getting mugged or raped is a personal choice.
So we have an all inclusive boundary...people who are attacked are negative and bad and people who aren't are superior and loving.
By that logic, what a miserable child you must have been to deserve what happened to you, Nay. I'm assuming you're going to go reach for some other horrible experience to throw up like a shield and protect yourself...you know all those horrible experiences you claim you have moved through and gotten over.
MacArthur, you are now seeing why "That Thread" became 13 pages long.
I am sorry that my post offended you so much, McArthur.
I expected some comments but hostility, nope didn't see that coming. [^]
I have had a few problems with negs, and dealt with them, then was on my happy way once again. Perhaps it is because of my way of thinking?
Well, I hope you read the post again, but keep a open mind this time and oh, be honest with yourself, and ask..."why in the world did I get so defensive and angry?"
Have a great day! [:D]
Nay
quote:
Originally posted by Nay
I have had a few problems with negs, and dealt with them, then was on my happy way once again.
I am glad you have solvd your own problems and are now happy with your life, good for you. But that still does not give you the right to go pointing fingers at those who are still suffering. Your tone doesn't sound like you are being helpful, its sounds smarmy.
quote:
Well, I hope you read the post again, but keep a open mind this time and oh, be honest with yourself, and ask..."why in the world did I get so defensive and angry?"
I ripped the article apart because i felt a duty to do so and to show that its not really going to be helpful to those suffering neg problems. Read my other post above about my friend also.
I will not get into a fighting match with you two!
And I will not be pulled into your hate and anger. So, you two don't like the post..that is obvious....well, move on to the next thread then.[;)]
Some people might find it helpful and enlightening. Those whom are ready to stop being the victim will do so, those whom aren't..well, will continue to be angry and defensive.
Turn those frowns upside down! [:D]
Nay
quote:
Originally posted by Nay
Perhaps it is because of my way of thinking?
ok, look. If that works for you then great, more power to your elbow i say. And i mean it. But what has worked for you may not work for someone else. Each persons experiences are different and what works for one may not work for another. If you are being raped, just changing your way of thinking isnt going to stop it is it?
There are varying levels of psychic attack from the mild to the downright evil life-threatening ones.
Just because someone is being negative about life does not mean they are under psychic attack (which is what this forum is for). And just because someone is experiencing psychic attack does not mean they will automatically be negative.
If you have really had a serious neg/demon experience and recovered (i know nothing of your experiences) from it then i fail to understand how you can be so negative towards others who may be experiencing similar suffering.
Judgeing people experiencing serious neg problems and pointing fingers at them while they are under psychic attack just isn't going to be of any help. And that is putting it mildly.
quote:
And I will not be pulled into your hate and anger. So, you two don't like the post..that is obvious....well, move on to the next thread then.
No you don't have to, Nay, you still have your own to deal with. You never got over it, you didn't even move through it, you walked away and avoided it and claimed victory...you didn't do anything.
You don't even see yourself in others, or see what you do to others. You want everybody's situation to be like yours so you continuously have an easy defeat. Some are easy, some are hard, and the hard ones take time. You can't stand feeling anger for a few minutes, what would you do in the situations of some of the people here, who's choices are limited.
If you were in the shoes of some of the long terms here, you'd inject so much hate into your situation because you'd be trapped like a rat, unable to run away from anything, and that just can't happen, you've got to be safe and protected from everything. Safety isn't guaranteed and isn't owed. What do you do when it happens to you? You can invest you're energy into going woe is me I am not safe, or you can compromise that evil exists, reach out to others and live (and that is a positive attitude).
You're a fear oriented child (I won't even bother calling you an adult anymore).
If I went back in time and saw you during those three days with the chicken pox, should I give you food and water and should I just smile and say, be positive not afraid or angry, here's a chicken bone for you?
quote:
Originally posted by Nay
And I will not be pulled into your hate and anger.
Its always someone else with the hate and anger isnt it? There was no hate whatsoever in my post. Why you would think so is beyond me. If you cant see the reasons why i responded to this thread then fine, but please dont try to make out "its all my fault" you were being spiteful.
quote:
Just because someone is being negative about life does not mean they are under psychic attack (which is what this forum is for). And just because someone is experiencing psychic attack does not mean they will automatically be negative.
Somebody turn this into a poster with the largest letters possible, and thank you MacArthur for breaking that boundary down and dilineating it.
And these can't be quoted or said enough:
Direct quote from
Robert Bruce's Book,
Practical Psychic Self Defensepage xiii
To many people, if a thing cannot be dissected in a laboratory, it cannot exist, even though the evidence of their own eyes and senses repeatedly demands otherwise. A lack of viable scientific alternatives leads to claims of mass hallucination, hysteria, and mental disorders to explain the effects of unseen spirit influences. This is understandable when inexperienced, materialistic minds attempt to grasp what is beyond conventional comprehension at the physical level of existence. Although it can help, denial is not enough to drive back the darkness that has plagued the hearts, minds, and dreams of humanity since our beginnings.
and page xvi
In the world today, those with paranormal troubles are often blamed for attracting and/or creating their own problems. Myriad explanations abound, but they generally hold that victims do something wrong or have "bad karma," often involving past lives. However, philosophy and spiritual finger-pointing are not of much practical help, and while I believe karma, choice, and free will are involved in all aspects of life, it is not only demoralizing but unfair to blame vicitms for their troubles. They surely have enough to deal with. Helpful advice and practical solutions are needed, not blame-based philosophies.
This is Robert Bruce's website, I'll continue to repeat that over and over if need be. People come here because they read "Practical Psychic Self Defense." And they're greeted by moderators who not only do not support Bruce's ideals, but fragment them to being useless.
quote:
Originally posted by McArthur
Why are you people posting this stuff in this forum? Are you doing it to help or because you are actually being petty and vindictive? Think about that question for a while.
No McArthur, it's because this is a real life situation with real life consequences. Nowhere in the article is there anything mentioned about neg attacks. It's not about neg atacks - its about negativity.
Think about it, for every one person out there that has had genuine issues with negative spiritual entities, there are a dozen more who's only demons are their own pessimistic perceptions. They're not sure what's causing their problems, they come onto a site like this and read about negs, then human nature leads them to that giant leap to the conclusion it must all be because of negs.
We're all terribly well aware that negs do exist, and they can cause some serious damage, but to start defining every negative situation or outlook to being the result of negative spiritual entities puts us smack dab in the middle of the whole evangelical penticostal christian thing where personal responsibilities for situations are removed because there's bound to be some demon that's been pre-defined as being the reason for the problems.
Negative entities cause negative situations, but not all negative situations are caused by negative entities.
Articles like this are useful because we need to seek that point of balance - learn to be able to make a more educated analysis as to whether a problem really is internal or external. Therapists would have you believe that all such problems are internal. Some mystics, psychics or ministers would have you believe its all external. Lets not keep charging over that middle ground on our way from one side of the field to the other.
Kind regards,
James.
Hi All,
I think a simple misunderstanding of word meanings in context has occured here.
No finger pointing has been done from what I have read. There were statements concerning our own responsibility for what we experience. That applies to all of us.
Look at the bigger picture here please. The basis of what has been said in the original post is about our responsibility for what happens. And the scope is a Soul level one I should think. Since we did choose the various things that we have experienced so far in life, including all the millions of choices in all the moments that we have made. So we are responsible for these things from that perspective.
The second instance is about coming to know we are creating these things by our choices, thoughts, actions and words. We do allow these things to happen in our life, only we have forgotten why we chose them in the first place because we are under the stresses of the experiences. And that applies from farting in bed to neg attack.
I know this will not be agreed by all, and that is okay too.
At least think about what has been said.
James S got in b4 me here, but his post is spot on!
"Perception is Everything"
Love Always.[:)]
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight
This is Robert Bruce's website, I'll continue to repeat that over and over if need be. People come here because they read "Practical Psychic Self Defense." And they're greeted by moderators who not only do not support Bruce's ideals, but fragment them to being useless.
You've mentioned this a couple of times now. No Dark Knight, this is Adrian Cooper's website put together with Robert Bruce's input and guidance to present his works and the works of others also in his fields. You may have noticed that Nita also features heavily in the articles on the AstralPulse site, and not all of her practices go hand in hand with Robert's.
Nowhere has Robert ever said that in order to be a moderator on this site do we need to be in complete agreement with everything he says. That would be a bit cult-ish don't you think?
If you've ever spent any time looking at the OBE forums you'll see that Robert's techniques are not the only ones used, in fact there have possibly been more discussions regarding material from The Munroe Institue, and many people here, myself included, have had more success with Robert Munroe's techniques of astral phasing than RB's OBE methods. I do however own a copy of Astral Dynamics, as I believe it to be one of the best written books on the subject of astral travel. BUT IT'S NOT THE ONLY ONE!!!
Nor are Robert Bruce's methods of psychic defense the only ones.
If PPSD works for you then great. His writings have indeed helped many people, and I'm keen to hear of methods that work for people. But please do not dispute valid information presented by others that has also proven beneficial to people in need of help just because it mightn't agree with you or what has been written in PPSD![/b]
Regards,
James.
quote:
Originally posted by James S
No McArthur, it's because this is a real life situation with real life consequences. Nowhere in the article is there anything mentioned about neg attacks. It's not about neg atacks - its about negativity.
Well that was partly the point i was making. Negativity may not have anything to do with psychic attacks or vice versa.
quote:
Think about it, for every one person out there that has had genuine issues with negative spiritual entities, there are a dozen more who's only demons are their own pessimistic perceptions.
And how does one tell the difference between the two? I see what you are saying as a *balanced* approach but the article posted in this thread, as i pointed out in my first response, does not include the possibility that negs exist. It is basically saying to any new poster here, "There are no negs, all your negativity is your own fault, tough luck buster, sort your own s*** out on your own."
quote:
They're not sure what's causing their problems, they come onto a site like this and read about negs, then human nature leads them to that giant leap to the conclusion it must all be because of negs.
No i'm sorry but i disagree. I think people are more intelligent than you make them out to be.
quote:
We're all terribly well aware that negs do exist,
Are we? That is a very genral sweeping statement that i dare say you can not prove. MOST people dont even know ANYTHING about negs. The article posted in this thread (i'll say again) denies the very possibility of them. And denial aint a river in Egypt.
quote:
and they can cause some serious damage, but to start defining every negative situation or outlook to being the result of negative spiritual entities
Who exactly is doing that? I certainly am not. Read my post where i say that just because someone is negative about life does not mean they are under psychic attack. What made you say that?
quote:
puts us smack dab in the middle of the whole evangelical penticostal christian thing where personal responsibilities for situations are removed because there's bound to be some demon that's been pre-defined as being the reason for the problems.
Do i see a tinge of Anti-Christian hatred in there somewhere? There is a saying amongst some Christian friends of mine that the greatest deception the "Devil" ever achieved was getting people to believe he didnt exist. This can be likened to the way a lot of people dont even know about negs or what they may be up to.
quote:
Negative entities cause negative situations, but not all negative situations are caused by negative entities.
I agree, ive already said that in a previous post.
quote:
Articles like this are useful because we need to seek that point of balance -
I'm sorry but i still say the article is not helping BECAUSE *it does not take a balanced approach*. It does not even entertain the possibility that negs exist. And im sure the author did not write it in response to people being attacked by negs but *for people who are being negative*. Can you not see that important difference?
quote:
learn to be able to make a more educated analysis as to whether a problem really is internal or external.
But the article *does not do that* though. It blames it on the victim with no alternative, balanced, explanation. It basically says "Its all internal" with no balancing views of the other possibility of negs.
quote:
Therapists would have you believe that all such problems are internal. Some mystics, psychics or ministers would have you believe its all external. Lets not keep charging over that middle ground on our way from one side of the field to the other.
Nowhere did i say its all either internal or external. I made this clear when i said;
"Just because someone is being negative about life does not mean they are under psychic attack (which is what this forum is for). And just because someone is experiencing psychic attack does not mean they will automatically be negative."
quote:
Originally posted by Tayesin
Since we did choose the various things that we have experienced so far in life, including all the millions of choices in all the moments that we have made. So we are responsible for these things from that perspective.
I'm sorry but this is just a philisophical/spiritual viewpoint that is verging towards dogma. None of what you just said can be proven. Do nine year old children *choose to be raped*? I think not. Its ridiculous to even suggest such a thing and is insensitive to those who have suffered such things. It even suggest to the victim that they should feel guilty about being a victim because its what they chose to do, when obviously they didnt. Guilt is one of the ways negs eat into people because of the negative emotions it produces.
It is very true that negativity over long periods is very bad, but it is also true that(being positive, don't know why I said negative...)at wrong times can make a situation worse. Let's try to understand each other's viewpoints this time please people.[:(]
quote:
Originally posted by James S
No McArthur, it's because this is a real life situation with real life consequences. Nowhere in the article is there anything mentioned about neg attacks. It's not about neg atacks - its about negativity.
Yes, it is about negativity which has a general application to all, although the terms positive and negative can have different context for different people. I do have a question as to why it is being roled out here in a specialist forum where its connotations are therefore more focused particularly considering recent topics but see below for debate comments. There are some here that try to investigate reported problems by questioning and analogy plus they attempt to give supportive feedback. This feedback as I see it does cover the fuller spectrum of percieved advice and in some cases some members here get actively involved in attempts to support people.
No one that is in the wide view/lateral thinking camp denies the importance of such stability of thinking and the security and well being that it brings and I think many have stated such either directly or as part of advice given.
Some participants are perhaps less enamoured of the thinking that lays the actions of others as their total responsibility which i believe has been expressed in earlier comments.
quote:
Think about it, for every one person out there that has had genuine issues with negative spiritual entities, there are a dozen more who's only demons are their own pessimistic perceptions.
I could ask where these numbers come from but won't [:)]
quote:
...Articles like this are useful because we need to seek that point of balance - learn to be able to make a more educated analysis as to whether a problem really is internal or external. Therapists would have you believe that all such problems are internal. Some mystics, psychics or ministers would have you believe its all external. Lets not keep charging over that middle ground on our way from one side of the field to the other
I think valuable as all points should be tested, but rather than engaging in that debate this role out in a specialist forum is I suspect an attempt to highjack the debate in other topics. This article when challenged somewhat thoughtfully in some areas IMHO results in presumptive claims of hate and anger rather than debate :( It is this type of behaviour which in my opinion is polarising debate. I am not saying that similar does not happen from the other corner but in this example it is moderator initiated.
There are now some topics running where the wide view is being debated with some sound comments IMHO being made and being discussed. If the 'problem is self' people want to discuss then that is good and certainly welcomed by myself but lets keep the debate option open and contributary rather than polarised [:)]
quote:
You have trapped yourself in your own web of negativity.
This I like to call a pattern. Negative feeds negative, and thus a wheel is spun. You must break the pattern to be free, which is not easy to do.
Nice article BTW Nay [:)] Glad you found it.
This is not about Negs as it is inner demons, I don't see why everyone is throwing a fuss. Everyone needs to forget the last thread. An external neg attack has little if anything to do with this thread in my opinion.
This is similar to how the fraudulant christian church operates. They tell people they are sinners and horrible people then they heap on the guilt and self-contempt.
Jessica
quote:
Originally posted by McArthur
quote:
Originally posted by Tayesin
Since we did choose the various things that we have experienced so far in life, including all the millions of choices in all the moments that we have made. So we are responsible for these things from that perspective.
I'm sorry but this is just a philisophical/spiritual viewpoint that is verging towards dogma. None of what you just said can be proven. Do nine year old children *choose to be raped*? I think not. Its ridiculous to even suggest such a thing and is insensitive to those who have suffered such things. It even suggest to the victim that they should feel guilty about being a victim because its what they chose to do, when obviously they didnt. Guilt is one of the ways negs eat into people because of the negative emotions it produces.
quote:
They're not sure what's causing their problems, they come onto a site like this and read about negs, then human nature leads them to that giant leap to the conclusion it must all be because of negs.
AHH you finally put into words my exact thoughts! THANK you James!
Boy you have no idea how long I was thinking to try to phrase that.
~Squeek
Hi[:)]
As I understood we're talking in this topic about the reasons (misfortunes)which makes people negative. Well, let us try to look at this problem through our soul's eyes. I mean that all our problems and sadness are coming from our unperfect bodies and egos...and our souls(our sacred and everlasting "core")is high enough to be bothered and to be stained by material problems. I know what I'm talking bout cause I've been in depression a lot of times years ago - until I realised that everything in that Universe has it's right place: misfortune sometimes helps us to develop more than happiness. I've suffered in my life, I've got my "lessons" and I don't regret cause I know that it had ment to happen and that's the best way... I really sorry bout people's sufferings but it's the way things happen - it's called Karma - and it's laws are always strict and fair. If I'd done bad things in previous life of mine I'm going to suffer in my present one...or maybe in my next ones too - until I purify myself and rise up to highest levels.
Be safe[:)]
Thank-you Haematite, for your words that ring true for alot of us. It is unfortunte that we must go through sometimes, what are horrific things. I too feel they are lesson and as bad as they were, I wouldn't change a thing.
Take care,
Nay [^]
Could someone explain how thinking positive can actually help you? The stated "benefits" seem more of an illusion rather than a consistant advantage over negative/no thought.
quote:
Originally posted by McArthur
quote:
Originally posted by Nay
I have had a few problems with negs, and dealt with them, then was on my happy way once again.
I am glad you have solvd your own problems and are now happy with your life, good for you. But that still does not give you the right to go pointing fingers at those who are still suffering. Your tone doesn't sound like you are being helpful, its sounds smarmy.
explain what you mean about her tone ? I'm confused. How is she pointing fingers ? this article is about positive thoughts. Which came first, the egg or the chicken ?
quote:
Well, I hope you read the post again, but keep a open mind this time and oh, be honest with yourself, and ask..."why in the world did I get so defensive and angry?"
quote:
I ripped the article apart because i felt a duty to do so and to show that its not really going to be helpful to those suffering neg problems. Read my other post above about my friend also.
why is it not helpful ? If you have a problem with negs, and it could be because of your own attitude, how is being positive not helpful if that will effect the negs ?
this normally would make me sad, but I choose to not let it. And Nay i hope it does not bother you.
thanks for posting a wonderful article, and for trying too helps those out, wether it is negs effecting them or themselves.
let's work together at helping each other be happy and positive, no matter what is happening !
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight
quote:
And I will not be pulled into your hate and anger. So, you two don't like the post..that is obvious....well, move on to the next thread then.
No you don't have to, Nay, you still have your own to deal with. You never got over it, you didn't even move through it, you walked away and avoided it and claimed victory...you didn't do anything.
Are you Nay ? what gives you the right too tell her what she has gone through ? you don't like too be told the same thing. two wrongs don't make a right. you talk about respect, but you don't show it. If the article does not apply to you that does not mean it does not apply to others. I found it helpful, and so i thank Nay and the author.
quote:
explain what you mean about her tone ? I'm confused. How is she pointing fingers ? this article is about positive thoughts. Which came first, the egg or the chicken ?
Shedt, she uses her experiecne as an absolute without asking or caring about what other people need. She has shown nothing other than a smarmy, insensitive, selfish attitude towards the suffering of others, reduces everything to an easy hurdle, an easy fix.
And the egg came first, it had to be fertilized to make the chicken.
Shedt, attitude is not a guarantee or tell all to attract negs.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight
quote:
explain what you mean about her tone ? I'm confused. How is she pointing fingers ? this article is about positive thoughts. Which came first, the egg or the chicken ?
Shedt, she uses her experiecne as an absolute without asking or caring about what other people need. She has shown nothing other than a smarmy, insensitive, selfish attitude towards the suffering of others, reduces everything to an easy hurdle, an easy fix.
i personally don't see her doing this. I don't remember her saying that everything she says is absolute. she is trying to help others.
quote:
And the egg came first, it had to be fertilized to make the chicken.
Shedt, attitude is not a guarantee or tell all to attract negs.
this is true, but having a positive attitude does not hurt. Like Spectral said, maybe the timing can be wrong, but i personally believe in the majority of times it will help.
Hi Mick,
quote:
I could ask where these numbers come from but won't [:)]
No statistsics there Mick, just an observation. Besides, I don't bother much with statistics since it's been shown that 43.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot. [;)]
McArthur,
Once I was angry at the church, but I'm long over that. I just recall very clearly how many people were "relieved" of the responsibility of dealing with their own problems by over zealous ministers who could ascribe a demon for every situation. Funny how often those demons would return simply because the people believed the minister could just take it away with an aggressive prayer, and there was nothing more they had to do about it.
To all,
I know a lot of people come here because they've read PPSD and are looking for help. We all need to remain very much aware that while some genuinely are neg attacks, there are also a lot that aren't. Despite what some might think we don't turn anyone away, and we don't tell people it's all in their mind. With the exception of one or two members who have actually been banned from this site because of really thoughtless comments along these lines, no one here has ever turned their back on someone by telling them it's their own fault.
I've seen a lot of accusations along these lines, but I feel they are unfounded. If anyone wants to see for themselves how people who come here for help are treated, go back to the "Welcome to Psychic Self Defence" link, go to the drop-down box at the top right of the list of topics and select show all topics, then start from page 44 and work your way back.
Well over a year ago we had someone come onto the forum seeking healing help. This site almost got taken through court because the parents of this person found out about some of the "alternative" advice that was being given here to somone who had already been well and truly diagnosed with a known medical condition.
What I'm trying to say is that Robert's book does definitely have validity, but so too does the sciences of psychiatry and psychology. Don't ignore one just to take information from the other. The most successful holistic treatments use a combination of both physical AND metaphysical.
Just something to consider.....
James.
I agree. I try to remain happy and calm as much as I can. It has helped in countless situations. It is always necessary to resolve an issue, but one should move on from those issues as quickly as possible once they are resolved, lest they be stuck in their own negativity.
Well, I want to say thanks for the kind words, but when I made this thread I did not intend for my own personal experiences to be brought into the mix..that was in a different thread, which I have to admit I allowed myself and my ego, to take hold.
I will not get into defending what I said about my experiences because it as all been said before..over, and over and over yet again!
I just hope more people will see the positive nature that this thread was intended to be.
And if smarmy, insensitive, selfish attitude towards the suffering of others, reduces everything to an easy hurdle, an easy fix. Means I am humorous, loving, and enjoys a good laugh, then thanks, DK!! I knew we could come to a understanding! [:D]
Hugs~
Nay.
Hi All,
McArthur and Rhinegirl,
Please understand this....Guilt is something we allow ourselves to feel, just because someone says you should be feeling guilty about something does not mean you must choose to do that. You have the power, you can choose to respond in many ways.
Dogma is something that is fixed and immutable in the eyes of those who hold it dear. What I expressed in my previous post comes from twenty years of spiritual practice and I am absolutely sure that this vision will be modified and refined, if not changed altogether, as the next twenty years go by.
Nothing that happens in any of the worlds can 'be' without a number of pre-requisites.....all the beings who are involved in any experience have contracted them-Selves to being part of it and the creative awareness we call God supplies the means through our choices of manifestation.
The great souls that we are did make these agreements to help supply and be a part of all experiences we have, and the proof that this is so is that it happens. If this were not the case then none of it could happen. The same applies to our connections with Guides, it is a contracted agreement we made before incarnating to this world. So the neg that attacks you is only able to do so because we allowed it to be by the contracts we made, and so the questions to ask are, What am I to learn from this contract? Is this neg helping me to face my fears and misconceptions head on? Am I going to be a victim or am I going to be empowered and learn from this experience ? Lottsa choices there.
By taking responsibility for the part we play in what we experience we are empowering ourselves so that we no longer see ourselves as victims. And it is the seeing ourselves as the victim that keeps us in that concept's mind-set, unable to be free from it until we see clearly and choose to do otherwise.
One thing that is quite difficult for us humans is to see and hear anything without it being filtered through our precious concepts. We then react from a position of perceived 'injustice' or attack, instead of responding from open clarity. It is normal for us to do so, until we can bring ourselves to see the bigger pictures and understand that we are the masters of our destinies. We have the choices, we only need to see that we do.
Love Always.[:)]
quote:
i personally don't see her doing this.
Shedt, put yourself in the shoes of someone else instead of using your own experiences.
And timing is everything...you have to bring people back into Creation before the positive can even take root. Positive at the wrong time can hurt a great deal if someone is hanging by a thread. Get them safe first, validate their value, then be positive...doing that affirms everything.
quote:
Please understand this....Guilt is something we allow ourselves to feel, just because someone says you should be feeling guilty about something does not mean you must choose to do that. You have the power, you can choose to respond in many ways.
Tayesin, that's been the problem for the longest time. I just posted the five stages to grief and loss, one of which is guilt. People have to be allowed to feel to move through this crap, and everytime people here try to experience it, we're told we're negative. No one on this damn site respects and let's people under attack feel what is needed to feel to overcome this crap. No one sees it as part of being human. No, just the opposite, they're told they're negative, not taking repsonsiblity, etc, etc, and it's just ridiculous. People aren't healing, just the opposite they're stagnating and dying inside because of the blocks that are continuously thrown up. This has got to stop. It isn't helping and people are not healing the way they need to.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight
quote:
i personally don't see her doing this.
Shedt, put yourself in the shoes of someone else instead of using your own experiences.
I am, I see no reason in insulting someone. the same as i don't see a purpose in stealing or hurting others.
quote:
And timing is everything...you have to bring people back into Creation before the positive can even take root. Positive at the wrong time can hurt a great deal if someone is hanging by a thread.
how so? maybe it can be the only thing that will save them. you should try thinking about this in more then one way. why must it only be the negative way ?
quote:
Get them safe first, validate their value, then be positive...doing that affirms everything.
just because one way will work for you does not mean another way will not work for others.
I have been at points in my life where all i need was something positive....
and so have others.
right now i just think about my unborn daughter in my wife's belly !
[:P]
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight
quote:
No one on this damn site respects and let's people under attack feel what is needed to feel to overcome this crap. No one sees it as part of being human. No, just the opposite, they're told they're negative, not taking repsonsiblity, etc, etc, and it's just ridiculous. People aren't healing, just the opposite they're stagnating and dying inside because of the blocks that are continuously thrown up. This has got to stop. It isn't helping and people are not healing the way they need to.
first, i think personally you should stop generalizing everyone.
you should take a moment too see the mistakes that you yourself are doing, like i believe this is too be.
you need to take responsibility too, just like everyone else.
quote:
first, i think personally you should stop generalizing everyone.
you should take a moment too see the mistakes that you yourself are doing, like i believe this is too be.
you need to take responsibility too, just like everyone else.
Actions speak louder than words. You take the responsiblity and set the example, especially since you aren't under attack or suffering. I've taken enough responsiblity, and you haven't taken a shred.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight
quote:
first, i think personally you should stop generalizing everyone.
you should take a moment too see the mistakes that you yourself are doing, like i believe this is too be.
you need to take responsibility too, just like everyone else.
Actions speak louder than words. You take the responsiblity and set the example,
quote:
especially since you aren't under attack or suffering. I've taken enough responsiblity, and you haven't taken a shred.
how do you know what i am going through ?
why are you being hostile with me ?
actions do speak louder then words.
my actions now are communicating with you, being honest and not hostile. I'm taking the responsibility of not being hostile and trying too a nice person.
quote:
how do you know what i am going through ?
why are you being hostile with me ?
actions do speak louder then words.
my actions now are communicating with you, being honest and not hostile. I'm taking the responsibility of not being hostile and trying too a nice person.
You're responding for the hell of responding with no real questioning. This is where I am done.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight
quote:
how do you know what i am going through ?
why are you being hostile with me ?
actions do speak louder then words.
my actions now are communicating with you, being honest and not hostile. I'm taking the responsibility of not being hostile and trying too a nice person.
You're responding for the hell of responding with no real questioning. This is where I am done.
I asked valid questions i thought.
how do you know what is going on in my life right now if i do not communicate it ?
I have a responsibility too the others here, to myself, and too you, too be honest, kind and say what i believe too be needed.
Isn'tit too shallow to think that just by being positive, then positivity will return to you. If you're negative then you'll receive same. Life is really a lot more than any cliche we could ever read. The issue with this type of thinking is that we only have one segment of the truth, instead of the full truth.
These sayings are only guidelines accepted by most, with no clear validation, they do not address complexity ,what happens when these guidelines do not seem to work.
Not pointing fingers at anyone...
It's such a shame when one consider's themself 'enlightened/awakened/etc.'
By accepting any belief as truth, we rule out the possibility for other's
Let's be a little less FACTual and more embracing of others, after all, ANYTHING is possible (even the possibility of nothing ;))
quote:
Originally posted by oreo_renegade
Not pointing fingers at anyone...
It's such a shame when one consider's themself 'enlightened/awakened/etc.'
By accepting any belief as truth, we rule out the possibility for other's
Let's be a little less FACTual and more embracing of others, after all, ANYTHING is possible (even the possibility of nothing ;))
for sure ! if we take one thing as absolute then we won't want too learn about something else. i try too have as many perspectives as i can.
quote:
Isn'tit too shallow to think that just by being positive, then positivity will return to you. If you're negative then you'll receive same. Life is really a lot more than any cliche we could ever read. The issue with this type of thinking is that we only have one segment of the truth, instead of the full truth.
These sayings are only guidelines accepted by most, with no clear validation, they do not address complexity ,what happens when these guidelines do not seem to work.
No, it's not the black and white reality people thing it is.
You have to feel things out and test, and testing means chekcing to see if you are right or wrong. But you have to take responsiblity at some point, you can't keep philosophizing forever over whether or not something is or is not happening. The same way people had to hop in a boat and sail out to see if the world really was flat and they'd fall off the end of the world, you have to try things out to see if they are true. We are different and experiences are complex, we are not so different that we are aliens. If I shoot you with a gun, I'm theorizing you will cry ouch and start to bleed. Just a theory...and I'll cling to that one concept as more often than not it tends to be true. Many different things can happen, but I don't see anyone checking to see what the exact conditions are that making the situation to be in the first place.
Hi to all[:)]
In my oppinion we shouldn't let our Egos to talk instead of us. I mean that this topic became something like battle-field... All we are people clever enough not to let the low passions to prevent our improvement. Every time we're going to think or say or do something we should think first of the consequences because every little thing that is happening reflects to the Universe. So, stricking to the subject about the negativity - maybe one should learn to assume a responsibility for their actions knowing that everything is important and not accidental. That kind of problems could be soluted only from the inside. We should let our soul lead our life - then we'll see that most of the problems disappear.
Be safe[:)]
quote:
Originally posted by need
Life is really a lot more than any cliche we could ever read. The issue with this type of thinking is that we only have one segment of the truth, instead of the full truth.
These sayings are only guidelines accepted by most, with no clear validation, they do not address complexity ,what happens when these guidelines do not seem to work.
I think also that we are multi facetted beings and the whole (as much as we can know it) needs to be attended to and not cherry picked for the easily assimulated bits.
I don't see why guilt is a problem emotion if it is doing what we expect it to, that is feel guilty where guilt is deserved. But wallowing in guilt probably does no one any good but as a means to identify and address something or other, why not?
Like a pain is a warning, look to the cause and address it!
quote:
Originally posted by Tayesin
The great souls that we are did make these agreements to help supply and be a part of all experiences we have, and the proof that this is so is that it happens. If this were not the case then none of it could happen.
This is not a proof, just bad logic coupled with an almost dogmatic doctrine. How do you know what you may have agreed to before incarnation? Who told you this?
quote:
The same applies to our connections with Guides, it is a contracted agreement we made before incarnating to this world.
Ah "the Guides" told you this did they? May i ask if you have a spirit guide?
quote:
So the neg that attacks you is only able to do so because we allowed it to be by the contracts we made,
This idea sounds just like something a clever neg would come up with. So its possible for me to go up to someone with a gun and say "oh by the way we agreed that i could murder you before we were incarnated, sorry that you dont agree with that or even remember but thats my belief." If it wasn't agreed to i couldnt possibly be able to pull the trigger according to what you are saying could i? Dont you see how dangerous that kind of belief is? Are you saying that Hitlers beliefs that he was destined to do what he did are correct?
Perhaps all those millions of Jews would disagree too. Saying that the victims of the Holocaust somehow agreed to be murdered is similar to being a holocaust denyer.
quote:
and so the questions to ask are, What am I to learn from this contract? Is this neg helping me to face my fears and misconceptions head on? Am I going to be a victim or am I going to be empowered and learn from this experience ? Lottsa choices there.
You obviously have not come face to face with a serious neg attack. Noone in their right mind would consider such torture as something beneficial or even desired. Many lives have been, and are being, messed up by negs. Whats beneficial about that?
quote:
By taking responsibility for the part we play in what we experience we are empowering ourselves so that we no longer see ourselves as victims.
Right, how about i introduce you to a 9 year old kid that has been sexually abused and you repeat that sentence to him/her? I find it ridiculous that any sane person would even consider it.
quote:
And it is the seeing ourselves as the victim that keeps us in that concept's mind-set, unable to be free from it until we see clearly and choose to do otherwise.
While i agree with part of this, i still disagree with the New Age view that the victim somehow agreed (before incarnation- something that can not be proven) to being victimised to start with. Why cause more suffering, why would anyone choose to suffer? Do Africans choose to starve? How about i take you to Africa where you can preach to them that its all because of some pre-incarnation contract that they are suffering? What do you think their reaction might be?
quote:
Originally posted by need
Isn'tit too shallow to think that just by being positive, then positivity will return to you. If you're negative then you'll receive same.
This is something for the Philisophical Forum. And while i tend to agree with the main thrust of it,
it has nothing to do with Psychic Attacks. You wont stop a psychic attack just by being positive. Saying so seems to imply that all psychic attacks are caused by whether one is negative or positive (which inlcudes a hidden accusation that "its all your fault you are under attack for being negative". which is a ridiculous assumption.
Rober Bruce has come under many attacks for varying reasons. Are we to assume he is a negative person then?
quote:
Originally posted by McArthur
quote:
Originally posted by need
Isn'tit too shallow to think that just by being positive, then positivity will return to you. If you're negative then you'll receive same.
This is something for the Philisophical Forum. And while i tend to agree with the main thrust of it, it has nothing to do with Psychic Attacks. You wont stop a psychic attack just by being positive. Saying so seems to imply that all psychic attacks are caused by whether one is negative or positive (which inlcudes a hidden accusation that "its all your fault you are under attack for being negative". which is a ridiculous assumption.
Rober Bruce has come under many attacks for varying reasons. Are we to assume he is a negative person then?
I know of many people who are good people and suffer such attacks. Such is life.
quote:
Originally posted by James S
Hi Mick,
quote:
I could ask where these numbers come from but won't [:)]
No statistsics there Mick, just an observation. Besides, I don't bother much with statistics since it's been shown that 43.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot. [;)]
That we
observe is perhaps the greatest tool that we have and then to be able to present and debate to continuously improve our maps of our environment.
quote:
I just recall very clearly how many people were "relieved" of the responsibility of dealing with their own problems by over zealous ministers who could ascribe a demon for every situation. Funny how often those demons would return simply because the people believed the minister could just take it away with an aggressive prayer, and there was nothing more they had to do about it.
I used to be more involved in spiritualism as a healer and also did some message giving. I moved out of it largely for the same reasons. There were too many people for me that simply looked to transfer responsibility for their own lives.
quote:
To all,
I know a lot of people come here because they've read PPSD and are looking for help. We all need to remain very much aware that while some genuinely are neg attacks, there are also a lot that aren't. Despite what some might think we don't turn anyone away, and we don't tell people it's all in their mind.
Agreed, the topic at http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10528 involving myself [V] is perhaps an alternate example of a cause of issues for some. As I mentioned before so think we are agreeing:
quote:
There are some here that try to investigate reported problems by questioning and analogy plus they attempt to give supportive feedback. This feedback as I see it does cover the fuller spectrum of percieved advice and in some cases some members here get actively involved in attempts to support people.
Just need to keep the space clear of the more polarised commenting [;)]
Not validating or recognizing a person when they are in dire straights or making an effort to see and understand what they need is as bad as turning them away...treating people as if they were invisible.
How are you validating or recognizing anyone here except you and your supporters - those who share your views?
Just an honest question DK. Please give examples. [:)]
quote:
Originally posted by kiauma
How are you validating or recognizing anyone here except you and your supporters - those who share your views?
Just an honest question DK. Please give examples. [:)]
This question needs to be asked of ALL sides.
I am pleased to say that Linda wrote a followup to her first article that started this thread.
How do deal with negative spirit.
Copyright © 2004 Linda M. Francis (quinte)
Becoming more spiritually aware means that we learn about the power of love, and how, it not only protects us, but also changes us into authentically empowered people. This love shows us that there is no need to fear, nor to hate, nor to be negative about anything that is placed upon our path. For whatever we do encounter upon our travels through this lifetime can be dealt with in two ways. One way is the reactive way, which is instigated by our own ego. The other way is the active way of Love, which in turn is inspired by our souls.
If we, just for a minute, stand still and examine what this ego entails - we find the value of fear. Fear, mind you, is an extremely broad term. It is such, because whatever notion of negativity we express is based upon one fear factor or another. Anger is the result of fear. Insecurity is the result of fear. Hatred is the result of fear. There are many more ways in which Fear shows itself.
Ego in turn is our protector, the safekeeper of our physical. Many regard the ego as something that should be done away with - whilst all the time it is quite impossible to eradicate ego. One however can transform a negative ego into a positive one.
When we react, we invariable involve our ego - It is when we react to what we deem can harm us, what upsets us, or provokes us in any manner, that we in turn react with the negative aspect of our ego. Our reaction to positive events comes forth from the positive aspect of our ego. Those wanting to become more spiritually aware quickly realise that reaction is the culprit to many upheavals. For spiritually aware people have learnt to act upon their own inner abundance, which is governed by their Soul. This soul aspect judges not, argues not, yet accepts - in the true language of Universal Love.
Having now spoken of the negative aspect of ego, and the positive attributes of Soul - we can arrive a little closer to the question at hand. How do we deal with negative spirit?
Negative energy is of lower energetic vibration. It is actually not correct to state that negative energy is weaker than positive energy - for anger in itself can come across as extremely strong. The difference however is in the vibration.
The negative is of slower vibration (denser) and the positive of higher vibration( less dense). It is not possible for lower energy vibrations to overpower that of higher energy vibration. Being higher in vibration - that which is positive, very easily can overcome that which is negative (and of lower vibration). And thus, (not being able to touch the higher energy vibrational levels), negative energy needs to consort with it's own kind - or that of even lower vibration than itself.
If you are subjected to spirits with lesser intent - then it merely indicates that within you is an area of lower vibrational energy. (Which is probably what is meant when one speaks about malicious spirits that take advantage of those with a weak aura). Please do not be alarmed by this - for from time to time each one of us will experience a spot or area in our energy fields (aura) that is of lower vibration. This does not necessarily indicate that the entire aura is of low vibration. Our aura's (and thus energy levels) fluctuate from moment to moment. Areas can become of lesser vibration due to many things. If one constantly entertains negative thoughts one very easily can establish such energy - much as it can be brought about by fear (of any kind), incorrect diet, illness or even certain types of medication.
And thus - an earthbound spirit (one with a lower energy vibration) would seek out those people with an equivalent vibration in order to have some fun. Please also bear in mind that the belief of the possibility of such occurring already is enough to lower one's energy vibration. It is an open invitation!
The most powerful tool we humans have command and total control over is our thought. The mind is about the strongest antidote we have to rectify these lower energy areas that exist within our energy fields. By thinking positive one already raises one's vibrations. We can use our own minds (our ways of thinking) as soul medication to heal our energy levels. Our positive thoughts will gradually balance out our energy, and gradually allow it to progress into higher and higher vibration. During this process the physical likewise will gradually heal of dis-ease - as will the hold negative ego has on one, become less and less.
And thus is the importance of becoming spiritually (soul) aware - for once one has made acquaintance with this special type of Universal Love - one has gained that authentic power that fears no fear. One has come to realise that only that which one entertains will come to one.
So yes - the bare fact is that we do energetically attract that to us (knowingly or unknowingly) by automatic invitation, in accordance to our own energy levels.
As far as spirit goes - there are (as with us humans) also various energy vibrations in which they reside. Those spirit closer to earth (and thus referred to as earth bound spirit) are of denser (slower) vibration. Spirit that has evolved to higher realms (such as the spirit plane, and higher dimensions) obviously are of higher vibration. It is for this very reason that a medium will attempt to raise their own energy levels (vibrations) first before attempting to make any contact with spirit.
Being of lower energy vibration - these spirits love to play tricks and games in manner of teasing. There ofcourse are also those spirit that have far lesser intent in mind. They are usually the cunning ones - for they will present themselves as good, comforting and nice. Once they know they have your attention, they have no qualms to show their true nature.
Please, do not fear these types of spirit - for it is this very fear which lowers your energy, and thus makes it possible for them to connect to you.
If you seek immediate resolve against these types of spirit, and cannot build up sufficient mind power at such short notice - then perhaps you may wish to visualise yourself surrounded by white light. This white light helps to raise your energy levels, and in doing so, you will be protected. Every day, just quietly say to yourself that you are protected, (KNOW that you are protected), and are not open nor available to receive any earth bound spirit.
Should one slip through a little crack caused by doubt (or something similar) - then just calmly announce that it must leave you alone - for in the Universe your wish and command stands!
If and when a spirit visits you, please also check by asking them if they are from the light. Invariably they will state that they are. But you only need to ask them ONCE again - and the truth must be told. Some may refrain from answering the second time around - which is indicative enough of their lesser intent. If they are not from the light then again merely send them packing, in a calm and poised manner - or (if you wish) advise them to go to the light.
Never fight or antagonise such a spirit, for in reacting so you merely succeed in lowering your own vibrations and thus enabling a far easier access for this spirit. Attempt instead to send love to this spirit, for this act will raise your vibrations, to which the lesser spirit has no access.
I wish you well on your journeys!
---------------------------------
I want to say thanks to Linda, for allowing me to post this. [:D]
Nay
Do you not know that the dark decive.
It's not worth it, Sare.
Sare, yes this is mentioned -
"Being of lower energy vibration - these spirits love to play tricks and games in manner of teasing. There ofcourse are also those spirit that have far lesser intent in mind. They are usually the cunning ones - for they will present themselves as good, comforting and nice."
Regards,
James.
Words are fun aren't they. There are writers and there are readers. Some writers are deceptive, others are honest. Some readers will believe anything and others like to back up words with experience. Everyone chooses which category they fall into, some paths seem easier than others but often lead to trecherous mountain passes surrounded by landslides and snowfalls. I'm sure "Linda M. Francis" is a writer of the highest distinction.
quote:
Originally posted by Nay
Please, do not fear these types of spirit - for it is this very fear which lowers your energy, and thus makes it possible for them to connect to you.
I agree that fear is one factor amongst many that negs do use against their victims.
quote:
If you seek immediate resolve against these types of spirit, and cannot build up sufficient mind power at such short notice - then perhaps you may wish to visualise yourself surrounded by white light.
And another veiw (some of which does agree with the author) is this article by Robert Bruce: http://www.astralpulse.com/articles/robert/articles_18.htm
"First, please understand that I have extensive firsthand experience in this area, helping many people suffering various kinds of psychic and demonic attack; as well as coming under fire myself on countless occasions. I do not say what I am about to say in order to undermine your personal confidence in any way; but simply because you have posed the question. You also do not have to accept what I have to say; that being entirely your prerogative."
quote:
Should one slip through a little crack caused by doubt (or something similar) - then just calmly announce that it must leave you alone - for in the Universe your wish and command stands!
Ahhh if only this were true [:(]. The author quite frankly has obviously very little experience in this area.
quote:
If and when a spirit visits you, please also check by asking them if they are from the light. Invariably they will state that they are. But you only need to ask them ONCE again - and the truth must be told.
Yet again more New Age myths that prove this author does not know what she is talking about. This whole "spirits can not lie twice" idea is total rubbish. I know this from
experience, not because i've read it somewhere and is an unproven belief i hold.
quote:
If they are not from the light then again merely send them packing, in a calm and poised manner - or (if you wish) advise them to go to the light.
These are the words of someone who has never had a serious neg problem. How does she propose you "send them packing"? Perhaps she should read about some of Robert Bruces' experiences and/or his PSD book. Although i do agree it would be better to stay calm.
quote:
Never fight or antagonise such a spirit, for in reacting so you merely succeed in lowering your own vibrations and thus enabling a far easier access for this spirit. Attempt instead to send love to this spirit, for this act will raise your vibrations, to which the lesser spirit has no access.
Do you have that quote from Robert Bruce handy DK?
Ahhhhhh..McArthur and Dk, so lovely to see you this fine morning of my birth! Thanks for your comments! [:D]
Hey....how 'bout for my birthday, you two stop playing tag team for one day, on the Astral Pulse? Now that will be the most wonderful gift a old gal like me can get! [:D] [^]
Thanks ya'll, knew you would understand [;)]
Nay
YES!! I FOUND IT!!!!!
I'd like to copy the following post into this topic, as I feel it appropriate.
It was originally written by Frank.
I think anyone here who knew Frank at all knew him to be possibly one of the most gifted and experienced astral projectors we've ever had. For those who haven't had the priviledge of knowing him, he came to the forum with 20+ years of very frequent OBEs and quite possibly has more experience in this area than even Robert Bruce, though this is not a point I wish to start getting into disputes over. Frank was at a stage where his waking mind was alost constantly tuned in to the astral as well as the everyday physical.
These things I'm saying to let people here know that if anyone is able to speak from experience, Frank probably had the greatest level of experience than anyone else on this site. And yes, I too dearly hope he is ok and is some day able to make a return to the forum.
Anyway, this is one of his posts from an early topic regarding astral dangers:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=560
In my hundreds of true-Astral experiences never once did I come across an entity that bore malice. Quite the opposite in fact.
Please understand that the Astral is merely energy which you perceive with your senses. I firmly believe that your Astral experiences are distorted by the "slant" that we tend to place on our sense of perception.
An example of this, on the physical plane, would be to take a half-full container. Personally, I would always see it as half full. But there are those who would habitually think the opposite, and there are those who would see things either way depending on what was in the container. :)
That is not to say you will never had a scary experience. Sure, you will have lots of those! But it will only feel scary because you are viewing something that looks SO unfamiliar. Like, for example, the first time I travelled in an underwater region. Convincing my sense of consciousness that it was okay took quite a lot of effort!!!
However, you do need to realise there is a base Astral region that exists somewhere between a Lucid Dream and the Astral proper. It is an area I became fully familiar with due to my having been "trapped" there for about 5 years. I call it the "training ground" or zone. This is the place where Dragons are fought and Demons are slain. :)
Basically, in the training zone, your thoughts are played back to you on what I call a 360 degree bubble-screen. I posted information on this a couple of weeks ago to another thread. So you should be able to dig that out. In the training zone, whatever you basically believe or think, instant by instant, will be immediately played back to you in glorious technicolour. Myself I spent 5 years slaying dragons, breathing fire, fighting wars, dealing with demonic entities, etc., etc. (I had a rather turbulent upbringing!)
The reason why I called it the training zone is because what this region serves to teach you, ultimately, is that what we human-beings call "thought" is actually a primary energy. So the vibrational purity of your thoughts determines your Astral experiences.
You see, on the Astral, it is impossible to "spoil anyone's party" as you can only perceive regions that strike a harmony with your own vibrational energy.
I have also had experiences, particularly early on in my travels, that I call training-ground buffer experiences. These are where I might have got a little fearful for an instant and you find yourself sort of halfway in the training zone and halfway in the Astral proper. It's like on the one side of you is looming some demonic entity that is set to justify your fear... and on the other side is what remains of the Astral scenery you were experiencing.
Another little pitfall that can catch you out, is you now and again come across what I call "scamps". Scamps are these friendly and often very humourous (but secretly devilish) creatures who can scan your thoughts for trace vibrational impurities (fear, anger, malice, and such like) and latch onto them.
They have the ability to feed off this energy and they use it to fuel what I call their "little party trick"; which is to distort their form (or distort the form of something around you) in order to trick you into perceiving they are something much more sinister than they really are. They often catch you out!
The key to dealing with scamps is to just be calm and neutral. Hence, the trace energy they are feeding off is soon used up. At which point the facade fades away and the creature normally beats a hasty retreat.
Personally, I feel a lot more safe on the Astral than I do on the physical these days. :)
Yours,
Frank
Please read this carefully, and please consider as I mentioned before, Frank's very high level of experience. True they are the experiences of only one man, but it would be fair to say that he has seen and done more in the astral in the last 20 years, than most of us could ever hope to.
It is also fair to point that his comments do relate entirely to experiencing entities in the astral, and not the physical, but then it is also fair to point out that the astral is where most of these entities we've been discussion originate.
Kind regards,
James.
Brilliant post James! [:D]
*Reminder to self
Read all of Franks posts. [^]
Nay
I don't Astral Project.
What happens, happens - and happens for a reason.
The end, goodbye.
No one is arguing that with you Ramiel - not anyone. :)
Happy B-day Nay! [:D]
Indeed, great work on finding that post James. Frank's post is consistent with astral vibrational theory as it is widely accepted. It would appear that there are those with a bias to see the glass half full - and do - and those with a bias to see the glass half empty - and do.
And DK, I am not sure what the point of your post was. All along you and your supporters have been substantiating your experience as an aspect of astral experience. If it is not, what is it?
Again, just an honest question. All of your arguments, as I understood them, were based on arguments of the nature of the astral and astral entities.
Your post has left me rather confused. Please help me to understand.
quote:
Originally posted by Nay
Ahhhhhh..McArthur and Dk, so lovely to see you this fine morning of my birth! Thanks for your comments! [:D]
Happy Birthday nay! I hope you are having a great day. [:)]
quote:
Hey....how 'bout for my birthday, you two stop playing tag team for one day, on the Astral Pulse?
Firstly, Dk and myself are not playing "tag team", i hardly know her. Secondly, i dont see why anyone should stop posting because it is your birthday. This is a serious subject that needs talking about.
As regards to the post by Frank i think Robert Bruce himself has stated that he does not want to paint the image that the Astral is full of demons and nasties galore etc. But there are certain beings that can be quite nasty just as there are humans in this world of ours that can be nasty. Robert has stated that due to the nature of their neferious activities negs are generally very secretive and shy when encountering an Astral Projector so many experienced projectors may not come across them unless they purposely go looking in the lower Astral areas.
Robert Monroe also describes these lower areas in Far Journeys where he saw various beings, humans or otherwise, attaching themselves to living humans trying to live through them vicariously and/or affecting peoples lives.
Carlos Castaneda is another one, he called them "The Flyers".
There are far too many experienced and respected projectors and/or authors/researchers/mystics in this area who have commented on negs for it to be a coincidence.
And of course there are the various spiritual/religious traditions of demons/unclean spirits. Jesus exorcising spirits is one example, or Buddhism has what they term "Hungry Ghosts".
As regards to the post by Frank...
We quite agree with you McA... [;)]
quote:
Originally posted by kiauma
As regards to the post by Frank...
We quite agree with you McA... [;)]
Would you mind explaining what you mean and who the "We" are?
quote:
Originally posted by kiauma
It would appear that there are those with a bias to see the glass half full - and do - and those with a bias to see the glass half empty - and do.
It isnt about seeing the glass half full or half empty. It is to do with the fact that unfortunately some of us have experienced what it is like to suffer psychic attacks by negs. And there seems to be a few heartless "love and light brigade" types on here that, because they have not experienced these things and therefore do not fully understand (and also probably through fear of the actual "negative" subject) tend to ridicule those that are suffering.
Like i said elsewhere you are not helping youre just being petty and perhaps causing more pain to those who are genuinely suffering.
When you are being robbed by a guy with a gun to your head you're not being "biased" or seeing the glass "half empty", youre being robbed.
Would you mind explaining what you mean and who the "We" are?
What I meant was that your post was completely superflous, adding nothing, but merely repositing what 'we' had already posted as being your own.
It isnt about seeing the glass half full or half empty. It is to do with the fact that unfortunately some of us have experienced what it is like to suffer psychic attacks by negs.
Did you read Frank's post which James had put there for everyone to see? If you did, I suggest you reread it carefully, you seem to have missed the entire point. You apparently missed Frank's explanation of how he was trapped in the lower astral realms for 5 years, mistaking it for the whole of the astral experience, which apparently you still do as well, given your point of being robbed as some sort of equivalent example. Or, perhaps you could explain how you have far more experience than Frank, or the others whom even you agree corroborate Frank's explanation, and why you actually disagree with him.
Like i said elsewhere you are not helping youre just being petty and perhaps causing more pain to those who are genuinely suffering.
Must you go there again McA? Tell you what I'll do, just for you. I'll be the bigger person here, and take away my big bad POV, letting you have your way. After all, I wouldn't want to be petty, and cause a lot of pain to "those(?)" who are genuinely suffering (as opposed to those who are not 'genuinely' suffering, I take it).
If you have anything else to say to me, I suggest you PM me.
Just one of the annoying things I always see, is that whenever a new thread is made Dark Knight feels the need to reply in what I feel is a negative light. Using her experiences to gain sympathy or assistance or at least as a springboard from which to post blatantly against outside views she does not accept herself.
I don't mean to judge - that is not my intent - but its irritating to see thread after thread erupt in arguement and misunderstanding because of these posts.
Been watching it for a while, and not only does it derail the thread but it just becomes an irritation to read.
I dont mean to jab, just an honest view of the state of this sub-forum and it hurts the topics that come up. Disagree with me at will [;)]
quote:
Originally posted by Ramiel
Just one of the annoying things I always see, is that whenever a new thread is made Dark Knight feels the need to reply in what I feel is a negative light. Using her experiences to gain sympathy or assistance or at least as a springboard from which to post blatantly against outside views she does not accept herself.
I don't mean to judge - that is not my intent - but its irritating to see thread after thread erupt in arguement and misunderstanding because of these posts.
Been watching it for a while, and not only does it derail the thread but it just becomes an irritation to read.
I dont mean to jab, just an honest view of the state of this sub-forum and it hurts the topics that come up. Disagree with me at will [;)]
You mean posts just like that one above?[xx(]
quote:
Originally posted by kiauma
What I meant was that your post was completely superflous, adding nothing, but merely repositing what 'we' had already posted as being your own.
And your one-line comment on my post was adding what, exactly? Apart from being antagonistic i mean?
So my mentioning Robert Monroe or Carlos Castaneda or "Hungry Ghosts" etc was not adding anything? And i never claimed anything as being my "own" apart from when i talk of my own experiences. Why not actually keep to the subject rather than criticizing my posting style?
quote:
It isnt about seeing the glass half full or half empty. It is to do with the fact that unfortunately some of us have experienced what it is like to suffer psychic attacks by negs.
Did you read Frank's post which James had put there for everyone to see? If you did, I suggest you reread it carefully, you seem to have missed the entire point. You apparently missed Frank's explanation of how he was trapped in the lower astral realms for 5 years,
That is one mans explanation of his own experience. Yes i read it and agree with parts of it. But what you dont seem to understand is that you dont have to be Astral Projecting to be psychically attacked. Which, unless i am mistaken, was the point Dk was making in her post.
quote:
mistaking it for the whole of the astral experience, which apparently you still do as well, given your point of being robbed as some sort of equivalent example.
You dont have to Astral project to be robbed of your energy. Negs sneak into the Real-time zone to do that.
quote:
Or, perhaps you could explain how you have far more experience than Frank, or the others whom even you agree corroborate Frank's explanation, and why you actually disagree with him.
How do you know what experience i have? You havent asked, but you certainly seem to be assuming things about me you obviously do not know. And where did i say i disagree with him? I didn't. I was making a comment on his post and adding other things related to it but then you come in with your clever one liner comment that added nothing but the start of an argument. And yes as it so happens i do have a lot of experience as far as negs and psychic attacks go (this is, after all, the Psychic Self Defense forum not the Astral Projection forum). Do you?
quote:
Must you go there again McA? Tell you what I'll do, just for you. I'll be the bigger person here, and take away my big bad POV, letting you have your way.
Its not about having "my way" its about expressing my own pov and making comments on this topic from my own personal experiences. If you want to act as though you are the one being all "big" by walking away from the thread thats fine, because to be honest your smug attitude is not really offering anything positive to the subject and/or those experiencing attacks.
quote:
Just one of the annoying things I always see, is that whenever a new thread is made Dark Knight feels the need to reply in what I feel is a negative light. Using her experiences to gain sympathy or assistance or at least as a springboard from which to post blatantly against outside views she does not accept herself.
I don't mean to judge - that is not my intent - but its irritating to see thread after thread erupt in arguement and misunderstanding because of these posts.
Ramiel, you are judging, and there are some things that can't be debated on. Like saying you're a little pregnant. People under attack come to this forum to share ideas, and people on the outside have come in without any desire for care, understanding, or consequence whatsoever.
Spectral,
They're always going to think I'm talking about myself and no one else. They're always going to think I am asking for sympathy for ME, regardless of how many times the topic I am writing about has nothing to do with me. And they're always going to believe I astral project, when I don't. I'm a Pharmaceutical scientist and I never wanted this phenomenon in my life...I was dragged kicking and screaming the whole way.
And they're always going to tell people under attack they acknowledge a psychic/neg attack experience, then put up posts like Frank's saying it's not happening. People under attack have to worry about the negs and worry about offending people with good intentions who can't take the word "no" because it is negative.
McArthur, Dk, SpectralDragon, and yes...Kiauma. Please take your bickering somewhere else. [:D]
McArthur and DK, Post your opinion, then be done with it.. Do not continue to dissect every post you happen upon, (oh geez, I can see you using this as a quote now [:(]) Or I will become delete happy..[:D] This is not the kind of forum we had in mind. We believe in freedom of speech, but once that speech is done, that is it. If the topic continues to upset you after your first rant, then just do not continue to partake in that paticular thread. Thanks [^]
SpectralDragon..all I can say is, you need to find your own thoughts and opinions. Following behind someone and then agreeing all the time, will grow tiresome, as do your oneliners.
Later,
Nay
quote:
Originally posted by Nay
SpectralDragon..all I can say is, you need to find your own thoughts and opinions. Following behind someone and then agreeing all the time, will grow tiresome, as do your oneliners.
Later,
Nay
That's the funniest thing I have ever heard. LOL
Nay, I think you need to follow your own advice as well ;) after all you ARE posting other peoples things. Who is the one who isn't being original? At least my fluffie bunnie sayings and one liners are original.
And if you think I have not come up with my own well I was, but most of you liked turning it around in wierd ways that did not make sense. So I quite for a while till people started to make sense, which hasn't happened yet as you are proof of. [;)]
Sorry if that was a little harsh but well, so were you.
I have had much experience with these things well before I ever came onto the pulse. Do you think I would be following DK when I had these ideals well before I met her?
Silliest thing I ever heard. And from a mod no less.
One last thing, if you mods don't start following your own advice more people are going to quite the forums. It's not good karma to not practice what you preach.
Delete this and threaten me because I am right if you want, this must stop on ALL SIDES, INCLUDING THE SIDE OF THE MODERATORS.
quote:
Originally posted by SpectralDragon
One last thing, if you mods don't start following your own advice more people are going to quite the forums. It's not good karma to not practice what you preach.
Delete this and threaten me because I am right if you want, this must stop on ALL SIDES, INCLUDING THE SIDE OF THE MODERATORS.
I think Karma is bullcrap. I beleive that the westernized version of karma is twisted beyond recognition by new agers who have no concept of what Karma means to the eastern traditions.
We may delete it and threaten you because you might be *shudder*
WRONG*shudder*
This place is messed up because there's very few original thinkers on this forum. It's turned into yesmen and catfights. perhaps the people who quit will be the ones not wanted, sadly enough most of the people worth hearing have left. Cracked santa is gone, ender rarely posts. DK seems to have a massive following of yesmen and anyone who disagrees with her gets shouted down and insulted.
Jessica
Rhinegirl, I seem to have heard your post somewhere before... by someone else.
Jeez, would you lot JUST QUIT IT! Stop trying to score points of each other!
Kiauma and McArthur:
I want you two to try something different - reply to someone's post in one thought stream. Don't keep breaking things down and picking them apart - you lose context, and this style of reply seems to be getting people on the defensive a lot more.
DK:
Read Franks post again - I think you might not have acknowledged what he was saying about the "scamps", because he most certainly did NOT say it's not happening. You've read into it something he did not say. Also, you have been well and truly warned about about your continuous generalised criticisms about people "on the outside" having no desire to care or understand. This is old news. DROP IT!
Spectral:
You may think you are right, but you are being viewed by the moderators of this forum as being deliberately argumentative, spending too much time pointing fingers and trying to fight other people's battles. Back off for a while and let yourself calm down. Do NOT submit another accusational post!
Rhinegirl:
Dont be so forceful and personal about your opinions. That get's people off side very quickly whether what you say is true or not. I don't hold much with the westernised idea of karma myself - I'm a cause and effect type guy, but I too tend to use the word in the same context as Spectral did. Forceful remarks aimed at someone in particular is not the way to do it.
Can we please get back to posting on the subjects of the topics and stop these petty squabbles. If not, this PSD forum, valuable or not, will be shut down just like the energy sub forum was shut down because of ongoing arguments among DBZ followers. Arguments like these are damaging the entire AstralPulse forum and there is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED FOR IT!
To solve a problem one must identify it, first, Spectral.
DK: My intent is not to judge, thus I do not judge. I am merely bringing to light what I see as a potential problem. I can't relate to your experiences in this lifetime but that is simply because I'm not going to.
I think you are, however, potentially too sensitive to the topics on this sub-forum, and you take it much more personally than you should. You got screwed around, a lot. It happend for a reason. Perhaps searching for the answer as to 'why' instead of living in it, is the next course of action, or step towards fulfillment and the ability to put it in your past.
quote:
Originally posted by Nay
McArthur, Dk, SpectralDragon, and yes...Kiauma. Please take your bickering somewhere else. [:D]
McArthur and DK, Post your opinion, then be done with it.. Do not continue to dissect every post you happen upon, (oh geez, I can see you using this as a quote now [:(]) Or I will become delete happy..[:D] This is not the kind of forum we had in mind. We believe in freedom of speech, but once that speech is done, that is it.
If someone replies to my post i will reply back. Are you suggesting we should all just make one post per thread? Ridiculous. Methinks you dont like the fact that i have criticized the articles you have posted and are now threatening to delete them.
quote:
If the topic continues to upset you after your first rant, then just do not continue to partake in that paticular thread. Thanks [^]
I cant believe im actually reading this! So you are going to start deleting my posts because i am offering a different opinion built up from my experience in this area? Discussion Forums are for Discussions. And if you post articles on here that i think are misleading then i will damn sure post why i think it *is* misleading and/or incorrect. If you dont like it then tough, delete my posts or ban me or something but ive been coming here for a long time and on the boards before these at www.astralresaerch.com and this is the only time i have *ever* been threatened with censureship.
Did you not even notice in my last post that it was
me who was asking for us to stay on topic rather that posting one-liners with no content?
What the hell has happened to these boards while i was away???
quote:
Originally posted by James S
Can we please get back to posting on the subjects of the topics and stop these petty squabbles. If not, this PSD forum, valuable or not, will be shut down just like the energy sub forum was shut down because of ongoing arguments among DBZ followers. Arguments like these are damaging the entire AstralPulse forum and there is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED FOR IT!
If that is the case then perhaps those of us who are not afraid to talk about negs and Psychic Self Defense could possibly start a forum elsewhere and ask Robert Bruce to link to that forum instead of here for that particular subject. People are reading his book and coming here because of it but there seems to be a certain agenda amongst some here, including Moderators, to disparage even Roberts own work at times.
It seems to me the "Love and Light" brigade would love this Forum to be gone because through their own fear of the subject it seems somehow negative to them. Well i certainly dont feel like staying if im going to have my posts deleted by power-tripping Mods because they are personally upset at the way i criticize the articles they post.
If anyone reading this would like to help set up a Forum elsewhere specifically for Psychic Self Defense and the subject of negs please PM me and i will email Robert to see if he will link to it.
quote:
Originally posted by McArthur
Robert Monroe also describes these lower areas in Far Journeys where he saw various beings, humans or otherwise, attaching themselves to living humans trying to live through them vicariously and/or affecting peoples lives.
I just wanted to make a correction here i remembered last night. It wasn't the "lower areas" as in Lower Astral he was describing in his book. It is while he is walking (or floating, whtaever) the Earth as a ghost where he sees "ghosts" clinging to peoples backs/shoulders on the Physical Plane etc without them knowing. So what he was describing is what Robert Bruce calls the Real-Time Zone.
Having been in this arena for some 30 years I think that gives me the casting vote but that aside [:)]. For me AP is one view, my mentors long ago spoke of the astral context and it's provision of a relatively safe environment but made the point that this is not the complete picture so investigation and discussion is in my view good. The insular view obviously gives a degree of protection and isolation from the greater reality but that for me is not where I want to be. Understanding our environment can mean stepping out from the safety of the keep and taking a look around and not hopping to the nearest safe spot. This may not be for everyone but for one group to deny it for another group, their cup may be half full, for some of us with half empty cups we might seek to refill them with new experience and knowledge.
A thought that maybe of interest and I hope I recall it correctly. Joe McMoneagle, a former remote viewer of some repute spoke of the virtue of remote viewing versus astral projection. IIRC his statement is that of the two methods RV provided the greater accuracy, he is an experienced APer but that is his conclusion so as with all things care is needed when using one source of information to underwrite beliefs.
For those interested in more details about Joe McMoneagle see http://www.mceagle.com/remote-viewing/
quote:
Originally posted by James S
Jeez, would you lot JUST QUIT IT! Stop trying to score points of each other!
Kiauma and McArthur:
I want you two to try something different - reply to someone's post in one thought stream. Don't keep breaking things down and picking them apart - you lose context, and this style of reply seems to be getting people on the defensive a lot more.
I looked at this yesterday and thought here we go again just when the range war looked like it was entering a truce :(
But I would like to make the following observation. In a heightened state of tension, Nay once again rolls in an article which in the present climate could do no more than inflame the situation. There is a fundamental debate of philosophy and experience taking place here with attempts by some moderation to explore and categorise where such input is valid but when presented prematurely as the definitive state of play there should be no surprise that some should examine and disect. If the article is not open to disection and examination then we start to promote dogma.
There followed a few replies not in favour and some qualified by the inclusions of counter points. Next we have:
quote:
Ahhhhhh..McArthur and Dk, so lovely to see you this fine morning of my birth! Thanks for your comments!
Hey....how 'bout for my birthday, you two stop playing tag team for one day, on the Astral Pulse? Now that will be the most wonderful gift a old gal like me can get!
Thanks ya'll, knew you would understand
Which may have been presented in an attempt to calm but again in the current climate it was a bit of a red flag to a bull by claiming some collusion between two people who are in my view independantly stating their points of view. This then deteriorates into other claims of 'friends of...' etc. In my view if one wishes to debate differences of philosphy and experiences, that is what it should be, not the resorting to personalysing the issue, this for me usually demonstrates a lack of sound arguments for the case in hand.
Please lets see the corrective measures applied equally including towards some of the moderation that we are seeing here.
I attempted to start a new thread to leave this one. It got moved.:
quote:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10650
arguments are explored and dissected for a reason...it's called learning.
Ramiel: you're not going to make an effort to understand, but you can't understand why me or someone else under attack would be so sensitive to everything and want to make a judement call on that. What was the point of that?
quote:
Originally posted by James S
Spectral:
You may think you are right, but you are being viewed by the moderators of this forum as being deliberately argumentative, spending too much time pointing fingers and trying to fight other people's battles. Back off for a while and let yourself calm down. Do NOT submit another accusational post!
I have one more thing to say before I so called "cool down and become imaginitive" I say so called because I have been fighting for not only the defense of the people who are being told "this is your fualt" but also I have said I work on cases. I have been a case myself.
Think what you want, because of the way the mods are acting and going about business I know this will happen again, and again, and again till they learn.
That is all. Try and kick at me while saying "don't make any accusational posts" all you want now. For me this had been very personal.
Have a nice day.
I've just "read" this thread but all I've seen is "Blah blah blahditty blah". Is it really helping to keep talking about this absolute bullsh*t that has nothing to do with what we are trying to achieve here??? What are we trying to achieve here? Psychic self defense perhaps?
Two words:
SETTLE GRETTLE!
Please?
Kiauma and McArthur:
I want you two to try something different - reply to someone's post in one thought stream. Don't keep breaking things down and picking them apart - you lose context, and this style of reply seems to be getting people on the defensive a lot more.
LOL - oh James, you really miss my point entirely! Yes, I break things down and pick them apart, however this is my way of finding the underlying context. I am not content with the illusion of surface context, though I grant it's importance as well.
And yes, you are so right it sparks defensiveness! - and the correlation of those who jump on the defensive and those who feel attacked by 'Negs' is %100!!! Coincidence? Think about it. I have, and I am thinking of starting a new topic about ego and negativity.
We need more posts like the last one by Mick. He summed it up very well, albeit with the one small contradiction of speaking against "the insular view" and in the same post condemning Nay's input.
The bottom line for me is I want discussion that gets somewhere - not everyone stating their position then staring at each other in a benign, friendly manner. This may be what you want, but it seems rather impotent to me. Sweden enjoyed 500 years of peace, and what did we get? The Cuckoo clock.
I recognize that most arguments presented here are less than rational - but this is the place to correlate and discuss those views. This is NOT a university lecture hall, with rapt attention and formal propriety, it as the AP PSD forum, and by it's very nature, as SD pointed out, a magnet for conflict. That's not to say it is irreconcilable conflict, but you have to give it time, and understanding, and yes, love.
See you all around. [:)]
quote:
Originally posted by kiauma
We need more posts like the last one by Mick. He summed it up very well, albeit with the one small contradiction of speaking against "the insular view" and in the same post condemning Nay's input.
I stand by the insular view for various reasons, my reference to Nay is for stirring the pot at the wrong moment.
quote:
Sweden enjoyed 500 years of peace, and what did we get? The Cuckoo clock.
Sweden, try eugenics and also environmental concerns later both adopted by the Nazis. Switzerland on the other hand do a good line in clocks and banking of Nazi money (some of it of Jewish and other concentration camp inmate ownership)
quote:
I recognize that most arguments presented here are less than rational - but this is the place to correlate and discuss those
For many the whole of AP fits this category, this is just one branch of this irrationality [:P]
Sweden, try eugenics and also environmental concerns later both adopted by the Nazis. Switzerland on the other hand do a good line in clocks and banking of Nazi money (some of it of Jewish and other concentration camp inmate ownership)
If memory serves, that was all in the last 50 years - correct me if I am wrong.
For many the whole of AP fits this category, this is just one branch of this irrationality
Another baseless accusation. Why is my statement (I assume that is what you are referring to, as you do not say) an irrationality? Yes, there have been pockets of conflict that fit what I and others have described, such as the DBZ and the demon war debacles, but you imply this is the norm when the vast majority of threads are not that way at all - why?
I stand by the insular view for various reasons, my reference to Nay is for stirring the pot at the wrong moment.
What 'various reasons'? NOW is the time to state them. How is Nay, by introducing a perspective through which peace is readily available to a group of people who are admittedly here to find help for a serious problem, stirring the pot at the wrong moment?
You, like others here, are putting the cart before the horse. People come here for help, so we post what we hope is helpful, telling them they ARE empowered - and they cry "No! You must not tell us that! You hurt us by telling us that!" - what you miss is the very nature of the problem, which is that they are in a doublebind between their perceptions and their self-image.
Furthermore, let us put this 'insular' view of yours to bed for good - also known as the 'filter' perspective. Let me make an analogy between a person in the astral plane and a person on an island. On this island there is a beautiful lagoon. In the lagoon there is a waterfall with fresh water, plenty of nourishing food and restful shade. Also on the island is a large, active volcano, glowing and smoking. For the sake of the analogy, the lagoon and the volcano coexist for eternity.
Now, a person on this island has choices, which he actualizes with his mind, his hands and his feet. He is in the lagoon, and he says, "I love this island, it is so beautiful, look at this peaceful lagoon, how I love it." In other words, the lagoon is analogous to a nourishing environment and self-image. If he cares for himself, he will seek the lagoon for water, food, rest and shelter, which in turn will reinforce his strength. He will grow.
But wait! Isn't he cutting himself off from half of the experience of the island? Certainly, by avoiding the volcano, he is living an 'insular' existance. Obviously, he knows that he is free to jump into the volcano at any time. He has several valuable lessons he could learn in the volcano, such as the importance of self-love, and a habitable envirnment. The volcano is a ready place to learn the importance of choices that nourish the self.
Fortunately, the man already knows the results of angry, defensive, self-destructive thoughts and behaviour, so has no reason to jump into the volcano - to experience the 'full' environment of the island.
Or does he? Perhaps you can give me a good reason the man must not live an 'insular' existance? [:)]
quote:
You, like others here, are putting the cart before the horse. People come here for help, so we post what we hope is helpful, telling them they ARE empowered - and they cry "No! You must not tell us that! You hurt us by telling us that!" - what you miss is the very nature of the problem, which is that they are in a doublebind between their perceptions and their self-image.
Empowerment is an action on both sides, not just words. You do what works not what you think works.
Shut down PSD forum.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight
quote:
You, like others here, are putting the cart before the horse. People come here for help, so we post what we hope is helpful, telling them they ARE empowered - and they cry "No! You must not tell us that! You hurt us by telling us that!" - what you miss is the very nature of the problem, which is that they are in a doublebind between their perceptions and their self-image.
Empowerment is an action on both sides, not just words. You do what works not what you think works.
Shut down PSD forum.
DK your quote has nothing to do with the quote you quoted. Kiama is most correct in regards to what she speaks of. Most people cannot see through their own garbage and thus need the perception of others. One must also use a graet deal of introspection.
Some people on these forums are very passive aggressive and yet freak out when someone points this out to them.
hmmmmm...I wonder who[?][?]
Jessica
quote:
DK your quote has nothing to do with the quote you quoted. Kiama is most correct in regards to what she speaks of. Most people cannot see through their own garbage and thus need the perception of others. One must also use a graet deal of introspection.
Some people on these forums are very passive aggressive and yet freak out when someone points this out to them.
hmmmmm...I wonder who
It has everything to do with that quote.
Petition to shut down PSD forum
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight
It has everything to do with that quote.
Petition to shut down PSD forum
WELL THEN ELLABORATE. nothing is more annoying than people trying to sound cryptic and not realizing they simply sound ignorant and boring!
And what teh hell is PSD forum?
Jessica
quote:
WELL THEN ELLABORATE. nothing is more annoying than people trying to sound cryptic and not realizing they simply sound ignorant and boring!
And what teh hell is PSD forum?
Please keep her statement and let it stand as is, it speaks for itself.
Lock up PSD Forum.
Give RG a break DK - she does not know. Is she to be convicted and ridiculed for that?
Empowerment is an action on both sides, not just words. You do what works not what you think works.
Let's talk about the issues in your post - you are a big girl, I'm sure you can do that.
Yes, empowerment is an action on both sides, to a point. The only issue here is respecting each other's rights.
If something works for you DK, I am not going to hold it against you. I will, however, given the nature of the forum, suggest someething that would work better based on what works for me, and you are free to decline it. You see? You are free to speak, and I am free to speak. We have the choice of accpetance or rejection of each other's words, and that is all. We do not have the power to reject each other's Self, as your words imply - that is a ludicrous notion.
Shut down PSD forum.
So it is your way or no-way? Might your attempts to control what you have no control over be a source of conflict?
You are free to disagree, of course - as long as there is a forum to disagree on...
PSD Psychic Self-Defense forum. This forum.
[:o)][:P]Boy do I feel silly![:o)][:I]
On a more acidic note. Perhaps DK has been taken over by the negs that were attacking her.
Hence why when I came here I thought she was an evil psychic vampyre.
JESSICA
Easy, easy RG, let's not be judgemental - and it is an easy thing to do. We are conditioned to react with certain behaviours to certain behaviours. We need to recognize this to break the loope of aggression and defensiveness.
Yes, I know how many of my posts look needling and offensive - and It is easy to say they are. My aim, however, is to expose the origin of the negativity. I am not perfect, but that is my aim.
In an earlier post, I linked the ego and negativity, and I am the first to tell I have an immense ego! [:)] The difference here, is that I know I do, and I am aware of it's controlling influence.
You seem like a very aware and intelligent person RG, but if I had any advice for you it would be to always be mindful of the effects we create, and to ask ourselves if it is leading where we want.
It IS a fine line we travel here, which too often does crowd the personal boundaries we all set - but it is my firm belief that many of our problems are contained, not defended by, those boundaries, so they must be explored - carefully, with understanding, patience, and ideally, love.
quote:
Originally posted by kiauma
Sweden, try eugenics and also environmental concerns later both adopted by the Nazis. Switzerland on the other hand do a good line in clocks and banking of Nazi money (some of it of Jewish and other concentration camp inmate ownership)
If memory serves, that was all in the last 50 years - correct me if I am wrong.
Yes, WW2 has been over for more than that and what is your point anyway other than to demonstrate that you cannot engage in a straight forward conversation. It was a simple perhaps ironic comment not a declaration of yet more verbal wars.
quote:
For many the whole of AP fits this category, this is just one branch of this irrationality
Another baseless accusation. Why is my statement (I assume that is what you are referring to, as you do not say) an irrationality? Yes, there have been pockets of conflict that fit what I and others have described, such as the DBZ and the demon war debacles, but you imply this is the norm when the vast majority of threads are not that way at all - why?
For many people in the world the paranormal is irrational so again what is your point other than to demonstrate that you cannot engage in a straight forward conversation without having an argument. How about some love and light.
edited out hasty personal commentquote:
I stand by the insular view for various reasons, my reference to Nay is for stirring the pot at the wrong moment.
What 'various reasons'? NOW is the time to state them. How is Nay, by introducing a perspective through which peace is readily available to a group of people who are admittedly here to find help for a serious problem, stirring the pot at the wrong moment?
For me the idea of insulating one self from outside influences is to be insular. For me this may or may not be a sound proposition in the longer term simply because it may isolate us for those parts of our environment that we should know more about. I have said this before but am restating for your benefit.
Again the reason I raised the issue with respect to the posting by Nay is timing wise that just when things looked like they were settling this post kicked it all off again. From a moderator point of view I believe that it would have been prudent to delay in particular comments about members colluding and so on during a sensitive time. You obviously disagree and here we are again wasting yet more bandwidth saying nothing new.
quote:
You, like others here, are putting the cart before the horse. People come here for help, so we post what we hope is helpful, telling them they ARE empowered - and they cry "No! You must not tell us that! You hurt us by telling us that!" - what you miss is the very nature of the problem, which is that they are in a doublebind between their perceptions and their self-image.
You are answering your assumptions of what I am saying, I do not believe that anyone has denied the power of personal empowerment, they and I have simply added that those that have gotten into difficulty might need assistance to get to a position where they can then empower themselves and in the interim need to the freedom to discuss such.
quote:
...
Or does he? Perhaps you can give me a good reason the man must not live an 'insular' existance? [:)]
I have not said the he must not, I simply add that people have choices. If I follow your example correctly you are presenting that outside of the insular existance is bad (and already understood by your example person) and therefore generally to be avoided. Others including myself do not agree that all is bad out there and are interested it getting to know it even if it means stepping over some not so pleasant bits on occasions.
I suppose the analogy is the choice to live in gated communities, just pretend the rest of society for better or worse disappears when the gates are locked.
I think I am beginning to agree with Dark...
WW2 has been over for more than that and what is your point anyway other than to demonstrate that you cannot engage in a straight forward conversation.
So you agree with me but you don't agree with me? How am I not engaging in a stragiht forward conversation? Help me out here Mick, I can't read your mind.
For many people in the world the paranormal is irrational so again what is your point other than to demonstrate that you cannot engage in a straight forward conversation without having an argument. How about some love and light.
Ah, friend Mick, again you make conclusions and accusations with no supporting reasoning. Yes, to many (most?) the paranormal is irrational, however I think it is no assumption that you 'believe' in the reality of the paranormal, based on statements you have made, thus my references. As to your accusation that I cannot engage in a straghtforward conversation, I again ask for your straghtforward reasoning for that.
Why didn't you say you wanted love and light? Not a problem. [:)]
For me the idea of insulating one self from outside influences is to be insular.
Please show me where I am doing that. For me, I hold my longstanding participation in the discussion of this issue as proof of not insulating myself.
For me this may or may not be a sound proposition in the longer term simply because it may isolate us for those parts of our environment that we should know more about.
Please explain to me where my analogy of the island fails to take this into consideration.
From a moderator point of view I believe that it would have been prudent to delay in particular comments about members colluding and so on during a sensitive time.
Ah. Well, nobodies perfect. [:P]
I do not believe that anyone has denied the power of personal empowerment,
Nor do I.
...they and I have simply added that those that have gotten into difficulty might need assistance to get to a position where they can then empower themselves and in the interim need to the freedom to discuss such.
...By reinforcing the notion that they are a slave to other's perceptions of themselves? Please explain to me how this is beneficial.
I have not said the he must not, I simply add that people have choices.
...Also stated explicitly in my analogy.
If I follow your example correctly you are presenting that outside of the insular existance is bad (and already understood by your example person) and therefore generally to be avoided.
No, not good or bad. Unhealthy.
Others including myself do not agree that all is bad out there and are interested it getting to know it even if it means stepping over some not so pleasant bits on occasions.
Where did I say it was all bad out there? I can see where you would get the idea that my analogy made it a choice between pleasant and unpleasant, however the REAL issue is growth and decay, which says nothing about pleasant and unpleasant, and only a relative healthy or unhealthy, growthful or decaying, strengthening or weakening.
I am well aware that the most growth inducing periods of my life were the most painful - however, after having already stepped into that volcano, I now know better - and there is your benefit, as explicityly stated in my analogy.
Please reread my analogy again, this time giving full benefit to all implications.
I suppose the analogy is the choice to live in gated communities, just pretend the rest of society for better or worse disappears when the gates are locked.
At no time in my analogy did a cut one side of the island off from the other, this is a feature you are reading into it.
I do not agree with your analogy.
I think I am beginning to agree with Dark...
You always defended DK's view Mick, and you still are, that is why you are making these accusations and asking these questions, and I am answering. [:)]
quote:
Originally posted by kiauma
Help me out here Mick, I can't read your mind.
There is no need, it is in the text.
You said in the last 50 years and asked if you were wrong. I said 'yes' and justified it. Mind reading not required.
quote:
Ah, friend Mick, again you make conclusions and accusations with no supporting reasoning. Yes, to many (most?) the paranormal is irrational, however I think it is no assumption that you 'believe' in the reality of the paranormal, based on statements you have made
It was a comment on the use of the term irrational in a paranormal context as it related to the earlier comment and nothing to do with my beliefs and experience. Again you missed the context and irony, but somehow saw conclusions and accusations.
quote:
Why didn't you say you wanted love and light? Not a problem. [:)]
In your postings
quote:
For me the idea of insulating one self from outside influences is to be insular.
Please show me where I am doing that. For me, I hold my long standing participation in the discussion of this issue as proof of not insulating myself.
You asked me to explain myself and what 'insular' means for me when I used the word and that is 'insular' in the context of experiencing the non physical. That is what I did
quote:
...By reinforcing the notion that they are a slave to other's perceptions of themselves? Please explain to me how this is beneficial.
I don't make that connection so cannot answer it.
Pass on the analogy as time does not permit as we are obviouslyhaving problems with the simpler ideas.
quote:
You always defended DK's view Mick, and you still are, that is why you are making these accusations and asking these questions, and I am answering. [:)]
I speak for my own views, not DKs. There are many examples of sugestions by me across the spectrum and not all I believe favourable to DKs viewpoint. And if I was why would that be an issue?
It is after all just another viewpoint that should be open for discussion and debate. Again with the accusations claim! you raised questions of me and I gave my answers.
Amazing how this has gone from Mick speaks sense to Mick speaks accusations in the space of a couple of messages. So with that I am done with this message.
You said in the last 50 years and asked if you were wrong. I said 'yes' and justified it. Mind reading not requiredAll right Mick, Uncle! Uncle! looking more closely, I see you got me there - it was in the last 60 years.
Please forgive my brazen oversight - at least I am assuming that is what you are talking about, you still imply that your meaning is perfectly obvious. Again you will have to forgive me Mick, for I am not omniscient and therefore am fallible. Is that what you meant?
It was a comment on the use of the term irrational in a paranormal context as it related to the earlier comment and nothing to do with my beliefs and experience. Again you missed the context and irony, but somehow saw conclusions and accusations.Ah but Mick, being obviously a person of great knowledge and discernment, I am sure you are aware of how context and assumtion is at the basis of all language - language is, after all, ALL representation, all merely abstraction. Thus, I assume to know what you mean when you use the term 'irrational' in a 'paranormal' context as it refers to other's perspectives, in your perspective.
Again, I beg you to bear with me, and please explain yourself a little clearer. As I have already mentioned, I am not omniscient, thus I can be mistaken in your meanings, and I need you to help me to understand.
Please, please explain the context and the irony to me, and cure me of my illconceived assumptions and conclusions. I would be entirely in your debt for taking the time to forward our mutual cooperation and understanding.
In your postingsTalk of the pot calling the kettle black... [:P]
You asked me to explain myself and what 'insular' means for me when I used the word and that is 'insular' in the context of experiencing the non physical. That is what I didYes, you did, and I am still waiting for you to show me where I am doing that.
I don't make that connection so cannot answer it.Let me help you. [:)] This goes back to your previous statement;
...they and I have simply added that those that have gotten into difficulty might need assistance to get to a position where they can then empower themselves and in the interim need to the freedom to discuss such.Disentangling the jumbled syntax as best I am able, I took this to refer back to my comment:
quote:
People come here for help, so we post what we hope is helpful, telling them they ARE empowered...
Now, if you are not arguing against the point of our suggestion that they ARE empowered, and unfortunatley, indirectly responsible for their own experience, what are you arguing against? Again, I look to your wisdom and guidance to straighten me out.
Pass on the analogy as time does not permit as we are obviouslyhaving problems with the simpler ideas.In other words, you do not know at this time how to properly answer the island analogy. I see. Well, maybe later. [:)]
I speak for my own views, not DKs.I never said you spoke
for DK, I said you defended her views, and if you can not see that then it is a good thing I mentioned it!
There are many examples of sugestions by me across the spectrum and not all I believe favourable to DKs viewpoint. Like what (on both counts)? I would love to hear them - that is what this discussion is for, after all.
It is after all just another viewpoint that should be open for discussion and debate.[:)]
Again with the accusations claim! you raised questions of me and I gave my answers. Are you accusing me of accusing you? LOL. Oddly, that otherwise concludes EXACTLY like the conclusion of my last post. [:P]
Amazing how this has gone from Mick speaks sense to Mick speaks accusations in the space of a couple of messages. Is english your second language? DO you know what an accusation is?
Lemme help you again. From dictionary.com:
ACCUSATION
1. An act of accusing or the state of being accused.
2. A charge of wrongdoing that is made against a person or other party.
Now, let's look at that previous post of yours again and see if we can find any 'accusations'...
1. you cannot engage in a straight forward conversation
2. you cannot engage in a straight forward conversation without having an argument.
3. You obviously disagree and here we are again wasting yet more bandwidth saying nothing new.
The less obvious ones I answered as points of argument. [:)]
A clue to look for is the pro-noun 'you' - anywhere that you use the word 'you' you are saying something about someone else (a reference in second person verb tense). If you watch out for that, you will avoid many unnecessary conflicts.
As for the indirect aspersions, those can be a bit more tricky - but for my part I will try to just stick to the issue.
quote:
Originally posted by kiauma
And yes, you are so right it sparks defensiveness! - and the correlation of those who jump on the defensive and those who feel attacked by 'Negs' is %100!!! Coincidence? Think about it.
It isn't really about being "defensive" its about being shocked at some peoples insensitiveness, because of their lack of understanding and/or fear, of what it is really like to suffer neg problems.
The posts that got the "defensive" reactions were the ones that were basically saying "you dont know your own experiences, but i do, and its all because you wont listen to my empowering advice that you are being so negative." This kind of attitude towards those suffering neg problems
does not help. If you want to help then change your attitude and be more loving and empathic rather than deriding the experiences of others because you believe you know better than those
actually experiencing them.
And i see nowhere where anyone has commented on my comments of the latest article posted in this thread where i felt i made valid points of why the author does not know what she is talking about.
And I dont know DK that well yet but i support her (not necessarily all her views) because there seems to be so much antagonism towards her from various people. She is obviously hurting and you're all like a pack of wolves around a wounded animal (sorry DK didnt mean to compare you to an animal but hope you get my drift [:)] ).
quote:
I have, and I am thinking of starting a new topic about ego and negativity.
Great, do just that, but remember that it has nothing to do with Psychic Self-Defense so hopefully you will post it in the proper Forum.
And as for your analogy, what if the Volcano erupts, do you have control over that?
I'm not as wounded as I used to be MacArthur, but thank you anyway. I can deal with being disliked for a while if necessary.
I am concerned more for people that come here for help and get "this" instead. I'm concerned that any asking for help is considered weakness. This isn't helpful or practical or realistic.
You're right about one thing, MacArthur, you've been gone way too long.
Who is complaining that they are not being helped here ?
It isn't really about being "defensive" its about being shocked at some peoples insensitiveness, because of their lack of understanding and/or fear, of what it is really like to suffer neg problems.
Are you talking about me McA? I suggest we would all feel much better if we got it out in the open. [:)]
Again, again, again, if you have issues with anything posted, and especially anything I have posted, PLEASE tell me what it is in a direct and understandable manner. Do you think I have shown insensitivity? Then please, tell me what it was and why it was insensitive. Do you think I have acted out of fear? Please, please tell me what it is I have said to lead you to that conclusion.
I am here to learn as much as the next AP patron, and I need your help.
The posts that got the "defensive" reactions were the ones that were basically saying "you dont know your own experiences, but i do, and its all because you wont listen to my empowering advice that you are being so negative.
Please point to where I say you do not know your own experiences (again assuming you are talking to me. IF you are not, tell me that too). Secondly, I would love to see your counter-evidence for my points. I would think that would be imperative, but there seems to be a strange reluctance on this forum to do so, instead the preferred method for convincing is to use guilt and other irrational authority.
This kind of attitude towards those suffering neg problems does not help. If you want to help then change your attitude and be more loving and empathic
My dear McA, How would you suggest I be more empathic and loving? Perhaps you could give an example to help me grow?
...rather than deriding the experiences of others because you believe you know better than those actually experiencing them.
Again you have me at a loss. Please point to where I 'deride' the experiences of others? And what do you mean I know better than those actually experiencing them? Where do I say that? Frankly, no one has denied anybodies 'experience' that I've seen - everyone I have seen post has taken the experiences quite seriously. That has never been in question. The issue has been, and always has been, and continues to be, how to change those experiences for the better - please correct me if I am wrong.
And i see nowhere where anyone has commented on my comments of the latest article posted in this thread where i felt i made valid points of why the author does not know what she is talking about.
You mean your 'valid' point of accusing me of causing an argument? LOL - I thought my non-answer of that said it all - e.g. no argument from me. [;)]
But if you want an argument, lemme know, I may have some spare time today. [:)]
And I dont know DK that well yet but i support her (not necessarily all her views) because there seems to be so much antagonism towards her from various people. She is obviously hurting and you're all like a pack of wolves around a wounded animal (sorry DK didnt mean to compare you to an animal but hope you get my drift).
Very comendable McA - she needs a champion - in fact, she seems to have gone through a long line of them! Not that I hold anything against her, however she does seem to think that if she can't dominate a forum, no one else should be allowed to post - just wondered if you caught that... I did, and having spoken out I now am answering to her 'champion'.
You do as you wish, as does DK - and I just get crap for pointing that out - but that's okay, makes for an interesting sunday. [:)]
I would love to discuss issues other than the protection of fragile egos though.
quote:
Originally posted by kiauma
Are you talking about me McA?
Please see my very first post in this thread for your answer.
quote:
And i see nowhere where anyone has commented on my comments of the latest article posted in this thread where i felt i made valid points of why the author does not know what she is talking about.
You mean your 'valid' point of accusing me of causing an argument? LOL - I thought my non-answer of that said it all - e.g. no argument from me. [;)]
No, read what i said again. Was it you who wrote the article i was responding to?
And i'll say it again, your one liner was offering nothing to the discussion but a mocking, sarcastic attitude.
Ah isn't it great this "ego accusation" rule eh? When you have nothing you can think of to say, and all else fails, just mention "ego problems" and it somehow makes your points valid doesnt it? [:P]
Please do post your thread about ego and let us know which forum it is in because i am now highly interested to read what wise words you may have on the subject.
(snips more rubbish not worth responding to)
Please see my very first post in this thread for your answer.
Why are you sending me to search through an 8 page topic to find an answer you obviously know? Are you some kind of sadistic control freak - honestly?
No McA, I will not search for your answer because I do not have so much free time or interest that I can scrabble around at your bidding. I have tiome to consider thoughtful and penetrating answers, but I have no time for games. I assume that if you want me to know something, and you truly are empathic and caring as you make out to be then you will simply tell me. If not, then it isn't worth my time.
No, read what i said again. Was it you who wrote the article i was responding to?
I do not know, that is why I asked the question. All my questions are honest questions. I ask because I want to know.
There were several people who had posted, and enough trouble is caused by making assumptions. My apologies, but asking for clarification is the only way I know to proceed with clarity.
If you truly want to be helpful, as you say you do, then please give the help that I explicitly asked for. Otherwise, it will be hard to take you seriously.
Ah isn't it great this "ego accusation" rule eh? When you have nothing you can think of to say, and all else fails, just mention "ego problems" and it somehow makes your points valid doesnt it?
What are you talking about here? McA, I use quotes the best I am able to answer point by point as best I am able, for clear communication. You jump here from an answer to your question to I know not what from I know not where. Please, please, please strive for clarity in communication, it is the only way this discussion will be productive.
Please do post your thread about ego and let us know which forum it is in because i am now highly interested to read what wise words you may have on the subject.
I would still like to do that very much, but will not until I have worked out the details of what I am trying to convey - and I very much look forward to your input on this as well. [:)]
Its easy to find my first post, its the 6th one in the entire thread in response to the article that was posted. But for you, because im in a good mood, the answer is no.
And my comment about the ego thing was in response to the last sentence in your post;
quote:
I would love to discuss issues other than the protection of fragile egos though.
Anyway, its certainly been an interesting thread and i do admit that my posting style can be a bit ascerbic at times but at other times i can be a purring pussy cat. [:o)]
...my comment about the ego thing was in response to the last sentence in your post.
Oh! That.
Let me clarify what I meant.
It seems there is quite a bit of confusion about just what the PSD forum is about. Is it about emotionally supporting those who come seeking help? Or is it a technical reference, just supplying relevant info to those who ask?
I think the common sense answer would be both - but what of those who expect it to be only one or the other? If someone expects it to be a refuge - or just a library?
In either case, anyone who expects it to be just one of those will be sorely disappointed.
Kiauma & McArthur,
Sorry for having a go at you two earlier for your methods of discussing a topic. I see your point Kiauma, when you dig into a subject you can see the context that lies beneath the surface.
Be mindful though that as you dig to the heart of a topic line by line, that you don't miss the main point of the topic. This is where I'm coming from in my request to see things presented more as a complete flow of thought rather than fragmented responses.
What I've seen happening here in the last several months is the slow degredation of a forum because of the dissection of topics leading to more and more personal dissagreements rather than discussions on the topics themselves.
In the 8 pages of this topic, how much of the discussion has gone into opinions about the subject matter itsself, and how much has gone into personal dissagreements?
Part of what I see as happening in these dissections is great assumptions being made - leaps to conclusions. These assumptions do tend upset, and not because of ego. If someone's gone to the effort of posting their thoughts and feelings, and it is misread, either because for whatever reason they have not explained themselves clearly enough, or the person reading it has not understood the intention, then assumptions get made. Once these assumptions are made, it becomes very hard to get out of that mindset and into an acceptance that maybe the assumption made is not correct.
I've been making the assumption that Spectral has been finger pointing because he's being overly defensive, whereas from his perspective he could simply be seeing the exact same behaviour from me that he's been accused of. From that viewpoint I've been perpetuating arguments the way I've accused him of doing.
With that in mind, Spectral, I apologise for what I've said. I'll try now to take a step further away from the issues and try to look at them more objectively.
DK, I don't want to see this forum closed down. Thing is, it's happened to other forums because of such degredations of discussions, and the subsequent spreading of personal rivalries to other forums.
It's becoming a cancer in the AP site, and unless it can be treated, it will have to be cut out alltogether.
The problems with this forum from the way I see it is in how people are reacting to the topics and discussions. Unless that's changed, moving those discussions to a new location won't solve the problem.
Regards,
James.
P.S.
Kiauma, I just read you're last post that you submitted while I was typing up mine. You have made an excellent and valid point.
quote:
Originally posted by James S
Kiauma & McArthur,
Sorry for having a go at you two earlier for your methods of discussing a topic. I see your point Kiauma, when you dig into a subject you can see the context that lies beneath the surface.
Be mindful though that as you dig to the heart of a topic line by line, that you don't miss the main point of the topic. This is where I'm coming from in my request to see things presented more as a complete flow of thought rather than fragmented responses.
What I've seen happening here in the last several months is the slow degredation of a forum because of the dissection of topics leading to more and more personal dissagreements rather than discussions on the topics themselves.
In the 8 pages of this topic, how much of the discussion has gone into opinions about the subject matter itsself, and how much has gone into personal dissagreements?
Part of what I see as happening in these dissections is great assumptions being made - leaps to conclusions. These assumptions do tend upset, and not because of ego. If someone's gone to the effort of posting their thoughts and feelings, and it is misread, either because for whatever reason they have not explained themselves clearly enough, or the person reading it has not understood the intention, then assumptions get made. Once these assumptions are made, it becomes very hard to get out of that mindset and into an acceptance that maybe the assumption made is not correct.
I've been making the assumption that Spectral has been finger pointing because he's being overly defensive, whereas from his perspective he could simply be seeing the exact same behaviour from me that he's been accused of. From that viewpoint I've been perpetuating arguments the way I've accused him of doing.
With that in mind, Spectral, I apologise for what I've said. I'll try now to take a step further away from the issues and try to look at them more objectively.
DK, I don't want to see this forum closed down. Thing is, it's happened to other forums because of such degredations of discussions, and the subsequent spreading of personal rivalries to other forums.
It's becoming a cancer in the AP site, and unless it can be treated, it will have to be cut out alltogether.
The problems with this forum from the way I see it is in how people are reacting to the topics and discussions. Unless that's changed, moving those discussions to a new location won't solve the problem.
Regards,
James.
P.S.
Kiauma, I just read you're last post that you submitted while I was typing up mine. You have made an excellent and valid point.
I take back my statement I said earlier of not saying anything earlier. Now we are all making progress it seems. Let's work out our diferences peacefully in a single thread then work on making this forum like it should be [:)] would say more but have to go to work.
quote:
Originally posted by kiauma
You said in the last 50 years and asked if you were wrong. I said 'yes' and justified it. Mind reading not required
All right Mick, Uncle! Uncle! looking more closely, I see you got me there - it was in the last 60 years.
Please forgive my brazen oversight - at least I am assuming that is what you are talking about, you still imply that your meaning is perfectly obvious. Again you will have to forgive me Mick, for I am not omniscient and therefore am fallible. Is that what you meant?
Sticking to one point at a time as this must be somewhat tedious for others.
point 1. You mentioned Sweden and 500 years of peace giving us the Cuckoo clock. It is usually Switzerland that is associated with Cuckoo clocks.
point 2. Although Switzerland has had a long periond of peace, some of its institutions as have other countries have done very nicely out of wars fought elsewhere.
I drew a web between the two countries, both of whom have this neutrality status to suggest that there is another side to the peaceful status. Sweden is as are other countries a big arms supplier, one of their most famous sons Noble used his fortune from explosives manufacture to fund the Nobel Peace prize. I find that a little ironic [:)] and potentially humourous and perhaps a handy occasional tonic for a forum which in my opinion it attempts to deal with a serious subject.
I believe that you read too much into a casual conversation which may of course simply be a result of the pressures hereabouts. I am not for labelling people fallible, nor do I think having had time to acquire knowledge makes me omniscient but should I keep it to myself? If yes, I can do that. As I have said so many times I like to investigate, share, corroborate and most important test in order to share and to also keep my own feet on the ground. Open discussion seems something that is hard to do hereabouts.
All right Mick, I concede the whole point - whatever that was.
Good luck with your future 'open discussions'. [:)]
I was lucky enough to read these words of wisdom and felt they needed to be shared.
The naked truth of chronic negativity.
Copyright © 2004 Linda M. Francis (quinte)
If you are negatively inclined by nature, then brace yourself - for what is written here is the last thing you would have expected!!
Be prepared!!
We are not going to beat about the bush in our exposing of the realistic facts - seek not for sympathy to your aches and pains - for this sympathy, no matter how well meant, is not going to help you at all - on the contrary, it will merely feed your ongoing situation of self imposed negativity, and will, in the long run be of more destructive value to you. If I want to be of any constructive help to you at all, it is going to have to happen by attempting to bring a certain realisation to you, of what you actually are experiencing
Whenever something flourishes and becomes abundant, it is merely because sufficient, consistent and ongoing nourishment has been given to it. Thus too is the case with negative thoughts. We all know that we have a choice to be of either negative stance or positive stance. So what is keeping you in the darkness of your own negativity?
Do you really enjoy being there, and thus do not seek to do something about it? Perhaps you do not know how to go about improving your situation? Or are you one of those people who relish the thought of gaining sympathy over and over again from those in supportive and loving proximity?
The thing about negative thought and thus also negative emotion is that only you can do something about it - that is, if you are willing to change your situation. Using your own negative thought to seek the attention of others by bemoaning your misfortunes over and over again is a form of vampirism. Did you know that? For you are leeching upon the good intent and the compassion of another, and misleading them into believing that you have an acute problem, which seeks immediate attention. Such users of another's compassion can easily be identified by their habit of constantly, endlessly, over and over again, complaining over this ailment or that - this misfortune or the next . It becomes an ongoing saga of spreading your own unhappiness outward, and drawing others towards your net of negativity.
The problem however is not that simple, for you have eventually come to believe your own negative state, whereby you yourself already have managed to convince yourself of how many ailments you have and how unhappy you are. You have made yourself that way, remember?
You have trapped yourself in your own web of negativity.
The choice of being negative is yours - keep it if you will. But if you do, keep it to yourself, for it is of your deliberate making. It is not a fair practise to expect others to constantly give of themselves towards a situation, which you yourself do not seek to remedy.
But let us now have a look at the other side of the coin, the side where you realise that you are trapped, and do desire to free yourself from the grip of your own negativity.
There are several things you can do - but you will only succeed if you are willing to persevere, and hold within you a deep and sincere desire to give of yourself, instead of taking for yourself. Being thus negative as you have been, places you in a constant position of taking from others - for you draw upon their positive energies by seeking their ongoing attention and sympathy. Understand that whilst thus in a negative mood, your energy levels have become unbalanced to the point where you subconsciously reach out in seek of another source of energy in order to balance yourself again. This is merely a temporary measure towards you feeling a little better about yourself - it however does not help your overall situation at all.
In order for you to become a more positive person, and thus a more fulfilled and happy person with less physical ailments, requires that you alter your own energy levels. The greatest tool we have towards the balancing of our own energies is our mind. One thought is already sufficient to bring about a change in your energy level. Imagine now that whilst you constantly harbour negative thoughts, you continuously feed your own energy levels with negative and low vibrational energy.
The solution to this is to stop negative thought.
And this is where you step in with one hundred and one excuses of why you are unable to do that. These excuses in themselves are of negative origin - so get rid of them! Remember that whilst you invent one excuse after the other, you merely entrap yourself a little deeper into your own web.
You have the power to change the way you think! All it takes is for you to want to! Be convinced that you are able to do this - by golly, you once upon a time managed to convince yourself of how negative you could be! And just look at the result!
Terminate your practise of advertising your own negativity over and over again. By throwing your negative thoughts (and thus your negative energies) out via your daily expressions merely strengthens your bond with this negativity. You are constantly affirming your state of negativity, and thus fuelling it into prolonged and continued existence. What if you were now to deliberately express yourself in positive ways, to such an extent that gradually this positive vibration will eradicate and replace those negative sentiments? It will be hard at first, I agree - primarily because you have done such a good job in anchoring your negative thoughts. But keep going at being positive, and soon enough you won't even need to consciously try anymore.
Make of your positive thinking a habit - you can do it, for you have thus far succeeded in doing that with your negative thoughts.
So, don't come and tell me that you do not know how to go about it. You have become a master in doing that with your negative thought - so now, turn the tables, and become a master where it concerns your positive thoughts.
The key to success is to stop thinking negatively. It really is that simple!
What however may be more difficult is that you yourself must be prepared to work on this issue. And once that decision has been made, to stick by your guns and to persevere.
You can change your world by changing the way your think!
Do you want to do it?
Copyright © 2004 Linda M. Francis Author's websites: www.path-ways.com
Nay [;)]