The Astral Pulse

Magic => Welcome to Magic! => Topic started by: Logic on August 08, 2004, 22:23:15

Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Logic on August 08, 2004, 22:23:15
Preaching is as sad as its believers.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Veccolo on August 08, 2004, 22:43:42
Ah, christian morals. How cute.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: G3MM4 on August 08, 2004, 23:42:06
Do you two practice witchcraft then?
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Logic on August 08, 2004, 23:58:22
Ask yourself this: does it make any difference to you?
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: James S on August 09, 2004, 00:21:02
Religious ignorance did you say? Oh dear!

I just love it when people start spouting dogma that someone else has told them, and they have no personal knowledge of it!

Ummm, 19, I dont want you to take this as being harsh at all, but please put some personal time and effort into finding out about these things before you start telling others what to do.

To those of us who are witches, your post has come across as quite narrow minded and full of that "religious ignorance" you claim to dislike.

Besides, would it shock you completely if I told you that I'm a witch, yet not only do I believe in Jesus, I have a great love for him and consider him to be one of the greatest teachers to have ever walked this earth and bless us with his guidance?

All of us who are on a true spiritual path seek to become one with God. Its just our attempted definitions of God that seem to vary.

Kind regards,
James.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: aryanknight666 on August 09, 2004, 01:57:21
Sorry, but you can't cast spells in the name of "God". "God" heavily condemns all magick, because jehovan and his angels want all the psychic energy to themselves and do not want humans to be using any of it up. The fact that you talk about universal justice and reincarnation in the same post that you exalt the judea-christian "god" is hugely contradictory.
It doesn't matter what you are invoking or doing, practicing magick as a christian is inviting disaster.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Nagual on August 09, 2004, 04:25:29
quote:
Sorry, but you can't cast spells in the name of "God". "God" heavily condemns all magick

So, basicaly god gave us the mean to cast spells and, at the same time, he forbid us to use it...?  What's the point?  Weird logic...
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Moonburn33 on August 09, 2004, 09:52:45
EX ego arcadia.  i'm not trying to go to paradise, i left it.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Blackstream on August 09, 2004, 11:49:16
quote:
Originally posted by Nagual

quote:
Sorry, but you can't cast spells in the name of "God". "God" heavily condemns all magick

So, basicaly god gave us the mean to cast spells and, at the same time, he forbid us to use it...?  What's the point?  Weird logic...




Maybe it's sorta like the tree of forbidden fruit :P
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Mystic Cloud on August 09, 2004, 12:19:34
Google something on the history of Lucifer. Evidence
points to Lucifer being a king of the old culture of Babylonia.
Besides Lucifer means literally "Bringer of light".

Also there is no such thing as Magick or magic. It is all
quantum physics, researchers will soon begin to see this.

Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: The AlphaOmega on August 09, 2004, 17:35:58
I know very little to nothing at all about magic or spell casting, nor does it interest me.  There have been times in my life though, my days as an athiest, when out of curiosity and disbelief I would attempt to confer spirits or ghosts of some sort, for cheap thrills.  It was in that time of my life that the strangest things happened to me with ghosts and such.  All I know for certain is this, you get what you invite.  Whether good or bad, positive or negative, you get what you ask for.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: James S on August 09, 2004, 18:42:09
"All I know for certain is this, you get what you invite."

That's very good point!
Anybody who entertains the thought of spirit communication of any kind should keep this firmly in mind.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: clandestino on August 09, 2004, 19:11:34
quote:
It doesn't matter what you are invoking or doing, practicing magick as a christian is inviting disaster.


aryanknight666, the ceremony of the eucharist is a basic magical ceremony !
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: James S on August 09, 2004, 20:11:34
19,

Regarding your criticisms of Runlola, I hope you were wearing a parachute when you made that last enourmous leap to a conclusion!

Your key point - that the power is inside us, is quite accurate. This power is the "God energy" that we have all been given by the universe. The power of the creator is indeed within all of us, as our souls, our higher spirit selves are each a little piece of the great spirit of the universe.

Don't discount the ability of other spirits to help, as they to also carry that "God energy". This is where I feel your understanding of the nature of the spirit world has been somewhat restricted by dogma.

Mother Nature, the Goddess of the Earth for instance is not just a fairytale or a fabrication. She is a real spirit entity, and comes fully equipped with all the life giving creative energies God has to offer.  She can and has been called upon by humans to help in situations, and she will do so when she feels the need is deserving and it works in with the greater design of the universe.

She has also pointed out, and this is important with reference to your comments about worship, that she desires not to be worshipped as christians believe God should be worshipped, but she asks instead just to be loved.

Any spirit that would come to you not in love, but demanding worship, should be cast away immediately, as they do not carry with them the love of the universe, but seek instead to distract and decieve.

Regards,
James.

Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: The AlphaOmega on August 10, 2004, 00:58:36
Wow, all matters aside, that's a pretty strong statement as to why someon wouldn't like MJ.  "You dislike MJ because you don't want to accept a black man as the King of Pop, its a threat to your own quest for greatness because you dont want anything to be equal to you, you and alot of other dumbasses (kkk etc) think you alone are the dominant and superior beings on earth. ( some humans can't help thinking like animals)".  Are you certain it doesn't have anything to do with RAPING OF LITTLE KIDS????

In any case, can someone say "OFF THE SUBJECT"!?!?!
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Silversunset on August 10, 2004, 13:19:38
quote:
basically what I wanted to say was to not ask for help, wishes etc for anything other than the creator, because that is a form of worship, invoking lucifer(satan) is equivalent to invoking a human being to fulfill your wishes, a shameful act. Dont you remember how Pharoah demanded to be worshiped? dont forget you have the power to fulfill your own wishes, you just need to develop your hidden abilities.



ok, so what makes you think that asking for help from anyone other than god is bad? probably either the bible or some sunday school / church type setting right? what about those people who don't believe in the bible, or who aren't from your church. Other people have other beliefs, and for you to tell them that they are wrong is the worst kind of disrespect i have ever heard of.

what if i walked up to you and started saying things like "for you to believe that there is no Mother before god is wrong, you should respect the Mother as well as the Father. Without a Mother there can be no young, and since you do not acknowladge Her exsistance you must be smited."

You probably would get upset and fight back with some of your own dogma.

Think about that the next time you decide to tell people they are wrong about their beliefs. Think long and hard about it, because the person you disrespect that way online could be a boss, teacher, or even a friend or relative.

Think about all of those 'people' you as a child asked things of: tooth fairy, santa, easter bunny. Those are all pagan ideas, transformed into christian ones to try to entice conversion. Can you honestly tell me that you never did something good because "santa was watching", or put a tooth under your pillow for the tooth fairy? or even put out an easter basket for the bunny to fill with goodies?

you also have to understand that not everyone believes in lucifer. Personally i don't believe in one single evil entity, i believe that in order for there to be good in the world there MUST be evil to offset it. i worship god as well as any of the christians in the church i go to, however i am not a christian. i believe that the christian god is the current manifestation of the Consort of the Mother, and for that i give him respect, but i do not worship him as the 'heavenly father' and 'one true god' the way christians do. i'll sit in church, listening to the pastor spew his message, and when prayer time comes i pray to god they way they do - but not for the same reasons. I pray for understanding and knowledge among them, i pray that they will be more open-minded and not so closed to the idea that the one who they sit next to is not of the same faith. if you were to ask me who i would worship more were the choice given, it would be the Mother, because without her we would not be - men cannot give birth to their children.

Bet you didn't like that little bit of preaching did you, 19?

my favorite part about what you said is this:
quote:
dont forget you have the power to fulfill your own wishes, you just need to develop your hidden abilities.

Didn't you know that that not relying on god is a sin? relying on yourself to get what you want is the same as relying on lucifer.
You obviously haven't been to church recently, or you'd know that.


Think about it.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Colin on August 10, 2004, 14:02:38
God, whatever it is, doesn't condemn the use of magic. Jehova, god of mountains and thunderstorms, condemns the use of magic so that his followers will devote all of their energy to his worship.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Rastus on August 10, 2004, 14:29:13
I think a lot of these arguments stem from the concept of "one and only one god, mine".  I alluded in prior posts about the nature of the gods:  If you understand that, then you understand how they work, and by insight you can understand what GOD is.  The strongest forces are built on the simplest concepts!
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Moonburn33 on August 10, 2004, 16:33:11
might you elaborate?  i don't know what other posts you've been in.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: James S on August 10, 2004, 20:29:52
AAAAARRRRGG!!!!! TAKE IT AWAY TAKE IT AWAY!!!

Its SCAAAAAARRYYYYY!!!!!

Remember the story about Dorian Grey?
Somewhere out there is a white guy who's skin keeps getting darker and his nose broader.

[;)]
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: daem0n on August 11, 2004, 07:50:20
he is not white, he is GREY, he's one of them, only head is smaller, that is [|)]
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Jaclyn on August 11, 2004, 13:01:31
Lola, EW. That was cold hearted. [xx(]

19, you contradict everything you stand for. The Bible says Christians should be wise as serpants, GENTLE AS DOVES. Callin people dumbasses isn't a great example of that(not to mention the Bible also says to keep our speech clean as to not make our brothers stumble).You give Christians a bad name.

quote:
Preaching is as sad as its believers


quote:
Ah, christian morals. How cute.



Ya'll should have consideration for the other Christians on these forums who haven't been preachin' to everybody, and shovin' their beliefs down your throats. These comments could be very offensive.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Veccolo on August 11, 2004, 13:53:33
quote:
These comments could be very offensive.


Indeed.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Logic on August 11, 2004, 13:56:25
quote:
Originally posted by Jaclyn
Ya'll should have consideration for the other Christians on these forums who haven't been preachin' to everybody, and shovin' their beliefs down your throats. These comments could be very offensive.



You're right, which is why I consider the preachers and shovers to be offensive.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: kakkarot on August 12, 2004, 03:41:16
that's right people, 19 says it's a sin to call on anyone but God for help and he's ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!

so the next time you're finding that you're carrying a box that's too heavy for you to handle, don't call your friends or family to help you cause that's a sin, call God.

the next time you see a crime happening (theft, vandalism, rape, murder), don't call 911 cause that's a sin, call God.

the next time you can't find your child and are extremely worried about their whereabouts, don't call around asking their friends' parents if they're with them cause it's a sin to ask anyone but God for help, so ask God.

[/sarcasm, y0] now many of you know that i'm very "christian" myself, but there's a line between reality and fanatical thinking. and the further that reality shows itself to be, the further AWAY from fanatical thinking it is.

calling upon "lucifer" within a summoning-type magical ritual/spell would be done for whatever purposes a summoner might have. just like calling upon any other being in any other summoning. just like calling upon God.

~kakkarot
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: 19 on August 12, 2004, 13:33:03
Well i'm sorry for all the chaos i've caused,

Its okay to get physical help from anyone, the kind of help im talkin bout is spritual metaphysical etc.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Moonburn33 on August 12, 2004, 16:02:42
there are no real differences between mundane and spiritual besides the ones that you make.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Aristoles on August 13, 2004, 11:09:52
There is no way to know if a God condemns magic or not.
So you read it,so what.
To be 100% sure,you got to hear it say it itself(alot of it here,bah).
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Aileron on August 16, 2004, 01:50:53
we sit on thrones made of glass eyes.

Names are beyond us now.

We need no discipline in the ways regarding our spirit and soul, for the lives lived have reached this point and beyond it will reveal nothing but the amarynthine.
We all are according to the fractal, the divine and the essence of the universe.
It is now only as simple as live and let live.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Quintessence on August 18, 2004, 13:11:36
quote:
Word of advice to spell casters and magicians,

Lucifer and his kind wants to be invoked because they love to lead humans astray.

They will fulfill your request but at a price that is definately not worth it, Is it worth being distanted from the sweet bliss and peace of your soul (spirit, ruh etc).

Invoking lucifer is asking and depending on something other than God.

God is sufficiant for you.

Invoking lucifer is an act of disbelief, the more you invoke him the more you lower yourself in degrees.

So whether your casting a spell or doing anything magical do it for the good of others and yourself, do it in the name of God so you do not become one of the disgraced.

And do not make yourself accustomed to witchcraft and hurting people with spells.

If injustice has been done to you, be patient and the doer of the injustice will surely taste what his hands has put forth, a universal law which God has set in place to punish wrong doers both in this life and the next.

I hope this made sense to you, I thought it was something very importnat to talk about in these days of evil and religious ignorance.



LOL. Your wasting your time on me hun, I don't believe in Lucifer or God.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Moonburn33 on August 18, 2004, 21:58:55
i think that the error was that 19 (user) was not experienced in dealing with or trying to do his christian duty and help those who don't know jesus to know him.  

in time, if he really is sincerely interested in helping others and in getting them to convert- he'll use this thread as a learning tool.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Rin_Daemoko on August 19, 2004, 00:47:36
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/Rin_Daemoko/Animated%20Gifs/kaoani-white46.gif)


Yes, Heaven forbid someone should ever try to invoke the "Bringer of Light."  Who needs light when it's so comfy in the dark and OW! I stubbed my toe!  Damned darkness!
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: astralspinner on August 19, 2004, 02:40:33
quote:
LOL. Your wasting your time on me hun, I don't believe in Lucifer or God.


Ah, but what if THEY believe in YOU? :)
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: daem0n on August 19, 2004, 07:46:01
then he will believe that some entity bothers him, or it's expanding furniture [8D]
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Rin_Daemoko on August 20, 2004, 02:05:53
quote:
Originally posted by astralspinner
Ah, but what if THEY believe in YOU? :)



Feel flattered, then make some toast or watch TV?
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Moonburn33 on August 20, 2004, 10:01:48
i love toast.  it has to be the right kind of bread, though.....
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Anonymous on August 20, 2004, 11:17:24
Well can anyone here say how they invoke Lucifer and/or other demons regularly and what has happened?  I am under the belief that if one does that, they cause great harm to themselves and those around them.  It's easy to conjure up a demon, but to make it go away?

Before I tell you to join my religion, I'll give you a word of caution that demons and devils and all taht are bad for you.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Rastus on August 20, 2004, 11:39:24
People try and invoke angels and we applaud them.  Let them try an invoke a fallen angel and all hell breaks loose (nice pun, eh?).

My original point (if I can remember what I was thinking back when I wrote it) was to be wary of all higher powers.  Anyone that has experiened a "It's good for you encounter" knows what I'm talking about.  The flipside is the "foolish mortal" experience.  Really the only one you can "trust" is your higher self (ASSuMEing you learned what you were supposed to when you took to the flesh).
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: aryanknight666 on August 22, 2004, 03:38:53
I've invoked demons aplenty, none of that happens. I've had better experiences with them then with angels. I've also known many who have evoked demons, again, positive experiences.
How do you get them to leave? You don't; licences to leave are insulting, let them go when they want to, they'll probably leave right away. Of course you won't take my word for it and I'm not asking you too, you should probably find out for yourself but hey you never will because your probably too scared
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Aileron on August 22, 2004, 11:21:35
[:D]
eh..hehe.

[|)]
cute.

sooo, mr. aryanknight666, how have you invoked demons as you so nesciently put it?

Have you ever read Mr. Levay's dark book?
Just wondering in case you would like to tell us that you did so by reading the satanic bible, which contains nothing on invoking demons btw.

Did you draw a pentegram in blood in a room painted black, or perhaps sacrifice some virgin or lamb?
Did you close your eyes and wish it to happen? What exactly did you do in order to invoke a demon and/or devil and did it have anything to do with your soul or anothers?
Along this topic, Im also curious as to how you were able to invoke an angel since you seem to have admitted calling forth all archtypes?

Yes, I apologize, I am being very sarcastic. This happens though when I come into contact with those who claims the things you do in the way you did.
Let me ask you if you would take the word of a child if they approached you and told you in a very "matter of fact" manner, that they have seen and even talked to the monsters in their closet and its really not that big of a deal.

I do like the point that you made in telling us we would not believe you, as though you realize how silly the statement you made sounded and decided that you should allow us to stew in our awareness of the possibility and the conscious effort you made to make us realize you didnt care whether or not anyone believed you, because what you believe is what matters.
I agree with that, it doesnt matter what anyone else believes, only your own that should matter to you.
But dont expect to post something like that and have people not respond in any manner of opinion.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: aryanknight666 on August 23, 2004, 02:08:28
I have read parts of the satanic bible, however it is somewhat irrevelant considering LaVey established the church of satanist of which the satanic bible is a blue print to modern satanists, who are athiests, and I am not an athiest or a modern satanist. Fair enough?
Invocation is fairly amatuerish, you could say that, I'm relatively new to the left hand path. You will find most advanced satanists or high preists/preistesses evoke.
The method of invocation I have used was informal, similar to channeling. If I were to do a formal invocation, I would use the goetia, however not the lesser key of solomon method. Drawing a pentagram on the floor is a protective method and a lesser/great key of solomon/right hand path method, so I would not use this or an inverted pentagram for that matter.
Do you even know what a "fallen angel" is? It's doubtful.
You most probably have not had an experience with a "fallen angel"/demon/devil. Watching the excorcist and listening to stories about excorcisms and nightmaters that were supposedly demonic attacks or people calling disruptive spirits "demons" does not count.
You seem to have a self-endorsed opinion of authority of yourself, although the amount of experience you have had compared to a satanist is probably minimal.
You seem to have an ignorant, stereo-typical veiw of what a satanist is, you probably can tell me nothing valuable about real satanism. For example, why would I use a sacrifice, something characteristic of judaism/christianity? I never really said I didn't expect people to reply with any manner of opinion, either. I see that many people are very anti-left hand path on this website. All this talk of the "light side" and the "dark side" (most of the time substantiating what the light and dark side is with qoutes or information from star wars or lord of the rings)
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Aileron on August 23, 2004, 10:18:45
[|)]
I'm impressed.
It's rather a breath of fresh air to know your intellect is more than the post which I replied to implies.
You sound much less callow when speaking without the tones of someone above everybody else.

You're right, I can tell you nothing about real satanism, nor about "Fallen Angels."
Of course never did I attempt to convince you otherwise. I have read the Satanic Bible, but that is the extent of my knowledge besides what I have seen in movies or heard from friends who are satanists, or read on the internet or searched through in my "witchcraft and demonology" and "Occult" books, or, well.....whatever. The point is I dont really know that much.

I was instead attempting to gauge your reaction which was actually much more mature than I was anticipating.
What you said in which I replied, had an air of arrogance, such as, the things I know, none of you do or are probably scared of, the old jock tactic.
"What, you scared?"

You only assume though that I know nothing because of what I write, which implies nothing about my knowledge beyond the reading of Lavey, though you implied quite a bit I would say.

I am glad that you decided to actually answer my question or I should say my joust at you.

Also, if you have read through many posts, you'll find people here arent actually anti-left hand path as you so favorably put it, but in fact have a different perception on that direction.
People here you'll find are much more aware and open-minded than most places, except when it comes to people who claim things such as you did, in the way that you did.

I probably wouldnt have even replied had you not said:

"Of course you won't take my word for it and I'm not asking you too, you should probably find out for yourself but hey you never will because your probably too scared."


I love that last part. Its almost like a dare.

cheers![:)]
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: aryanknight666 on August 23, 2004, 19:08:15
You should chill out and stop anylising everything.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Aileron on August 23, 2004, 20:57:31
what is anylising?

Chill out? Im not freaking out on you am I?
Im doing exactly what the forums are made for, I'm posting and replying.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: James S on August 23, 2004, 21:17:52
That was a good post Aileron (your second last one).

It highlights a point that I think a lot of people forget here.
This forum is not actually inclined towards or against any particular religious belief(s). In fact many members are here because they've made a conscious decision to ditch religion in favour of spirituality.

It's easy for people to argue against something out of ignorance. Religions have been doing this for milennea.

The religious path only recognises the belief, and will chose to argue for or against that belief.

The spiritual path recognises the person, and their right to whatever belief they choose irrespective of what that belief is. As such, a spiritual path does not recognise right against wrong, only matters of personal choice.

My point here?

Satanists, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc. look exactly alike when they start arguing religions. But (to put a cat amongst the pidgeons here) a satanist who looks not to religion but spirituality, will be one step more evolved than a christian who cannot see past their religion.

Kind regards,
James.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Aileron on August 23, 2004, 21:37:07
That was a wonderful example of the difference between the two. Thank you.[|)]
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: aryanknight666 on August 23, 2004, 22:27:36
I belong to an intensley spiritual religion
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: James S on August 23, 2004, 22:36:00
quote:
Originally posted by aryanknight666

I belong to an intensley spiritual religion



LOL!!
Theres always one smarta*** in the crowd.
Hehehe...[:D]
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: aryanknight666 on August 24, 2004, 19:54:15
Sorry? I think I missed something.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: James S on August 24, 2004, 20:43:20
Spirituality and religions are for the most part diametrically opposed.

[:)]
- James
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: 0 on August 24, 2004, 23:45:01
Religion - rules

spirituality - universal
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: aryanknight666 on August 25, 2004, 03:24:24
Not really, James S. Take - buddhism, for example or, wicca, or, hinduism, or taoism, or my religion, as would have it; spiritual satanism (can also be described as traditional satanism).
I'd also have to say religion entires far more then rules.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: 0 on August 25, 2004, 16:46:47
I have to disagree.

The eastern religions you mentioned including wicca, are more a spiritual path, though refered to as a religion.

In the academic study of religion as a phenomenon in history the term 'religion' can be considered in its different aspects: as an inner experience as theology or intellectual formulation of doctrine. An a basis or source of ethics and as an element in culture.  
Different scholars have given different views and opinions of its nature and meaning. According to Aldous Huxley religion is, among other things, a system of education, by means of which human beings may train themselves. First to make desirable changes in their own personalities and in society. and second. to heighten consciousness and so establish more adequate relations between themselves and the universe of which they are parts Modern Indian philosophers like or Radhakrishnan, have expounded the theme that religion is not a set of doctrines but that it is experience and religious experience is based on the realization of the 'presence of the divine in man'. H. G. Wells says 'religion is the central part of our education that determines our moral conduct' The German philosopher. Kant. stated that 'religion is the recognition of our moral principles as laws that must not be transgressed.'

The Buddha's message as a religious way of life: "Keeping away from ail evil deeds, cultivation or life by doing good deeds and punfication of mind from mental impurities."

For our purposes, religion may be defined in a very broad sense as a body of moral and philosophical teachings and the acceptance with confidence of such teachings. In this sense, Buddhism is a religion.  

Buddhism however does not neatly fit into the general categories outlined earlier because it does not share common features with other existing religions in many ways.


This is the same for many similar chosen paths, but one thing is for certain, if comparing western religions and eastern religions as well as just the spiritual placement of the self, you put a great division line between what is religion, and what is spiritual guidance.

In my opinion, religion, as many know it, is a set adherance for mankind to be ruled under given by man in the place of god.
Even if claimed god had given these rules, man still puts them forth onto humankind in order to abide by.
Therefore, those in religion, are ruled by laws and rules placed on man, by man.

Spirituality has no curtain to divided us between right and wrong, we must chose for ourselves what is and what isnt.
Satanism is more an occult, though many, including yourself ayranknight, might disagree.
One reason I think that satanism is an occult is because it is a formulated doctrine for many, but it has yet to attain any cultured artifice in which allows society to grasp its theoligical ramifications easily enough to accept it as a religion.
Plus the social view see's satanism as more an opposition to what religion truly is, when in reality, it only opposes (In aspect of general social knowledge)what certain religions entail.


religion - rules

spirituality - universal

Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Tisha on August 25, 2004, 18:02:51
All the same . . . I think the advice not to invoke Lucifer should stand.  Not because he/it is "evil," but because most folk surfing these boards shouldn't be invoking ANYONE or ANYTHING. Invoking a spirit, while not actually knowing what to do should it actually show up, is a recipe for disaster.  Plus, they don't always go away when you ask them to.

Any newcomer to Magick should spend his/her newfound knowledge (of the ways of Energy) on personal/spiritual development.  Should a spirit show up on your behalf, deal with the matter as appropriate, but don't go looking for trouble!
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: aryanknight666 on August 26, 2004, 02:38:18
quote:
Spirituality has no curtain to divided us between right and wrong, we must chose for ourselves what is and what isnt.
Satanism is more an occult, though many, including yourself ayranknight, might disagree.
One reason I think that satanism is an occult is because it is a formulated doctrine for many, but it has yet to attain any cultured artifice in which allows society to grasp its theoligical ramifications easily enough to accept it as a religion.
Plus the social view see's satanism as more an opposition to what religion truly is, when in reality, it only opposes (In aspect of general social knowledge)what certain religions entail.



No, I agree with you more or less that satanism is the occult, or at least it involves the occult. Mysticism, spirituality, wicca, are the occult, and hinduism and buddhism involve aspects of the occult as well.
What you say about satanism as more an opposition to what religion truly is - some groups such as the order of the nine angels describe satanism as "anti-religion". They call themselves "occult satanists" but like modern/laVeyan satanists who are athiests, they treat satan as a representation of mankind or the dark/carnal side of humans, or the dark lands of the mind. They would, then be grouped as modern satanists, where as theistic satanists would be groups or covens that treat satan as a real being. Alot of groups, both modern and theistic, talk of "true satanism" and relate true satanism to how they define it. Of course, one groups perception of true satanism might be different to another. Thus, when speakng of satanism, it is important to consider modern satanism and theistic satanism. Then, identifying which one the group you are dealing with belongs too, the specifics of that group. You cannot pick a theistic or modern satanist group, describe its specifics and apply it to satanism as a whole.
I belong to the theistic group the "joy of satan". It's url is www.joyofsatan.com, it is the most extensive and informative theistic satanist web adress on the net, probably out of both theistic and modern satanist web adresses. Now, if you want to visit that adress, type "joy of satan" into a search engine because currently, the domain is down but search engine links will still take you to the site, as well as typing in the original domain however it is long and I do not know it off by heart.  
At the JOS, we beleive satan respects individuality, free choice and three-thought. So, we do not tell people what is right or wrong, we do not dictate to people rules and ethics. This is common with all satanic groups, theistic or modern.

quote:
The Buddha's message as a religious way of life: "Keeping away from ail evil deeds, cultivation or life by doing good deeds and punfication of mind from mental impurities."

For our purposes, religion may be defined in a very broad sense as a body of moral and philosophical teachings and the acceptance with confidence of such teachings. In this sense, Buddhism is a religion.

Buddhism however does not neatly fit into the general categories outlined earlier because it does not share common features with other existing religions in many ways.



Buddhists and Buddha Shakyamuni himself describe(d) buddhism as not a religion or philosophy; rather an education.
That is a good interpretation of Buddha's message, hits closer to home then anything I have read about him and his message on these forums. Only, evil would have been a foreign word to his vocabulary and concept to his mind. It is important to consider things like these when reading translated and/or western texts on buddha and buddhism, with words such as "heaven" and "hell".
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: 19 on August 08, 2004, 22:11:21
Word of advice to spell casters and magicians,

Lucifer and his kind wants to be invoked because they love to lead humans astray.

They will fulfill your request but at a price that is definately not worth it, Is it worth being distanted from the sweet bliss and peace of your soul (spirit, ruh etc).

Invoking lucifer is asking and depending on something other than God.

God is sufficiant for you.

Invoking lucifer is an act of disbelief, the more you invoke him the more you lower yourself in degrees.

So whether your casting a spell or doing anything magical do it for the good of others and yourself, do it in the name of God so you do not become one of the disgraced.

And do not make yourself accustomed to witchcraft and hurting people with spells.

If injustice has been done to you, be patient and the doer of the injustice will surely taste what his hands has put forth, a universal law which God has set in place to punish wrong doers both in this life and the next.

I hope this made sense to you, I thought it was something very importnat to talk about in these days of evil and religious ignorance.

- 19   God's personal number, he is the first and the last.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Veral42 on May 25, 2005, 13:58:04
Hmm... God?

Sorry, I don't believe that there's a God.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: CaCoDeMoN on May 26, 2005, 04:48:03
Quote
Hmm... God?

Sorry, I don't believe that there's a God.
Who cares?
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Rydel on June 01, 2005, 15:19:59
The Joy of Satan is the WORST website on modern satanism in existance. It's utter stupidity. A friend of mine wrote this (http://www.regnumluciferi.org) site on satanism if you're actually interested.

Satanism is really just the philosophy of self. It has NOTHING. I repeat. NOTHING to do with the christian entity known as satan/lucifer/whatever.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: no_leaf_clover on June 01, 2005, 15:34:59
QuoteIt has NOTHING. I repeat. NOTHING to do with the christian entity known as satan/lucifer/whatever.

Where'd they get the name 'Satan' from? I've always wondered that. Surely they would've chosen some other name had they wanted to avoid any christian connotations.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Rob on June 01, 2005, 18:46:51
The egypian deity Set, wasn't it? God of the night?
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: AstralSailor on June 02, 2005, 04:33:50
Quote from: no_leaf_clover
QuoteIt has NOTHING. I repeat. NOTHING to do with the christian entity known as satan/lucifer/whatever.

Where'd they get the name 'Satan' from? I've always wondered that. Surely they would've chosen some other name had they wanted to avoid any christian connotations.

I believe i read about this..
Satan comes from shiatan.. Which is Arabic for "disbeliever" or "the once who go astray" or well basically that type of person...
I have read that the chatolic church used it on the Illuminati brotherhood
and that the Illuminati in the beginning where a brotherhood of scientist who did not like the way the church cut off them and they planned to change that but the catholic church killed many of them so they after they had been split up they reformed and all kinds of rituals and things where broth upon Illuminati and now they say that they only seek revenge on the church..

I know this is really unfair to tell... I have only read it I'm not saying this is how i actually is.. But the book was said to be based upon certain fact..
Still i don't believe this..
The word Satan i believe comes from shitan tough..
And it says that the word Lucifer means "The Light bringer"
I think people think of God and Satan as Good and Evil
What about having "Goo-vil" for a change...

A friend of mine has this theory that their is only one big Person which has serious schizophrenic problems.. And that is all of us :) I think that's a nice way to put it :)
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Rydel on June 02, 2005, 16:38:50
QuoteWhere'd they get the name 'Satan' from? I've always wondered that. Surely they would've chosen some other name had they wanted to avoid any christian connotations.

This is how a friend of mine (the one who wrote the page I gave a link for above) answered that question.

QuoteThe term "Satanism" was actually coined by the Roman Catholic Church several centuries ago. Anton LaVey, in spreading the ideas of satanism in the 1960's, embraced the name "Satanism" for its shock value, essentially. Basically, this is all said and done. If we were to try to change it now, everyone would just say "Shut up! You're Satanists! Stop trying to act like you aren't!" If we don't, then a dozen people like you show up per year and ask us why we're called Satanists. We just can't win.

Hope that answers the question.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: AstralSailor on June 03, 2005, 12:40:36
Quote from: Rydel
QuoteWhere'd they get the name 'Satan' from? I've always wondered that. Surely they would've chosen some other name had they wanted to avoid any christian connotations.

This is how a friend of mine (the one who wrote the page I gave a link for above) answered that question.

QuoteThe term "Satanism" was actually coined by the Roman Catholic Church several centuries ago. Anton LaVey, in spreading the ideas of satanism in the 1960's, embraced the name "Satanism" for its shock value, essentially. Basically, this is all said and done. If we were to try to change it now, everyone would just say "Shut up! You're Satanists! Stop trying to act like you aren't!" If we don't, then a dozen people like you show up per year and ask us why we're called Satanists. We just can't win.

Hope that answers the question.

Yeah i agree :)
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: star on June 04, 2005, 19:52:33
Ive looked through the site supposedly 'Satan' 'Lucifer' he can be summoned. Even some of those Egyptian gods, why not just ask them directly then?
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Hammish on June 24, 2005, 13:07:46
Ah but who is to say that god is not the devil in disguise? No I don't believe it either but I'm an atheist. Personally I don't believe in such a thing as good and evil since they are human creations. And respect those who don't share the same beliefs.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: kenshin on July 30, 2005, 02:10:14
Quote from: HammishAh but who is to say that god is not the devil in disguise? No I don't believe it either but I'm an atheist. Personally I don't believe in such a thing as good and evil since they are human creations. And respect those who don't share the same beliefs.

true i mean whats that saying - "the devils greatest trick is convincing man he doesn't exist" or something like that, how do you know the god of the bibles greatest trick is convincing man that he is the good one when he is the bad one, i mean the one in the bible despite supposedly being a loving god often told people to rape/kill others
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Sophi on August 05, 2005, 12:25:20
I think we need to accept that some people have their opinions, and others have theirs.

Only one is right indeed, but unless you have a hell of alot of faith you don't know for sure. You can say bonk all, but you don't know for sure.

But soon enough you will, so don't worry. (:
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: labouts on August 12, 2005, 22:04:46
About the "Joy of Satan" site, anyone how is involved with it should see this if they haven't:   //www.satans-powers.tk

If you read it's stuff with an open mind you will probably change your opinions on it. the Threat letter responses are actually quite hilarious :).
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: bloodsong on August 13, 2005, 02:02:08
Quotewho is to say that God is not the devil in disguise

Personally, I like Crowley's idea:

QuoteThe devil is God as misunderstood by the wicked
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: benrachor on August 31, 2005, 17:35:30
I have studied demonology for a number years among other things and just for your information there are four great princes of the underworld not just one.

Satan-"Adversary"

Lucifer-"Light giver"

Belial-"All false and hollow"

Leviathan-"That which gathers itself together in folds"

There is not a "Devil", this is a general description.
Title: Re: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: thesickmoon on August 31, 2005, 18:37:22
Quote from: 19Word of advice to spell casters and magicians,

Lucifer and his kind wants to be invoked because they love to lead humans astray.

They will fulfill your request but at a price that is definately not worth it, Is it worth being distanted from the sweet bliss and peace of your soul (spirit, ruh etc).

Invoking lucifer is asking and depending on something other than God.

God is sufficiant for you.

Invoking lucifer is an act of disbelief, the more you invoke him the more you lower yourself in degrees.

So whether your casting a spell or doing anything magical do it for the good of others and yourself, do it in the name of God so you do not become one of the disgraced.

And do not make yourself accustomed to witchcraft and hurting people with spells.

If injustice has been done to you, be patient and the doer of the injustice will surely taste what his hands has put forth, a universal law which God has set in place to punish wrong doers both in this life and the next.

I hope this made sense to you, I thought it was something very importnat to talk about in these days of evil and religious ignorance.

<font color="blue">- 19   God's personal number, he is the first and the last. </font id="blue">

Look, I don't have any peace of mind in the first frakking place. So, like, were I to invoke Lucifer to get me a taco, what would the price be? Would there be a delivery fee?

Also, I've seen Peter Cook as The Devil, so I know how he operates. In the film (Bedazzled, 1967-- NOT that crummy remake by Harold Ramis), Peter Cook plays George Spiggot-- who's also the Devil-- and Dudley Moore plays Stanley Moon, who's in love with Margaret Spencer (played by the lovely Eleanor Bron, whose name was used by The Beatles-- NOT because they wrote Eleanor Rigby ABOUT her, but because they liked her so much. She was in HELP! with them and my goodness she was gorgeous and sexy and mmmmmmmmm), see, and so he wants to get her as his girlfriend, but he's a short order cook, so he thinks he doesn't have a chance with her. So, he prays and asks for a sign, or something, and then the Devil (Spiggot, played by Cook) shows up. Moon's not convinced he's the Devil, so he wants proof. He says he wants a Frobisher and Gleason raspberry ice lolly, so they hop on one of those big red British bus things, and then they go get one. The Devil even makes Moon pay for it because he's only got a million pound note. So, my point is: If I invoke Lucifer to get me a taco, should I expect to pay for it myself?
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: Hamoi on September 06, 2005, 03:09:59
Quote from: Nagual<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Sorry, but you can't cast spells in the name of "God". "God" heavily condemns all magick<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
So, basicaly god gave us the mean to cast spells and, at the same time, he forbid us to use it...?  What's the point?  Weird logic...

Well god tend's to be like that , It is a sin to kill ourselve's , but he gave us the ability :P
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: GANAMOHA on September 06, 2005, 22:59:51
Quote from: Nagual<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Sorry, but you can't cast spells in the name of "God". "God" heavily condemns all magick<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
So, basically god gave us the mean to cast spells and, at the same time, he forbid us to use it...?  What's the point?  Weird logic...
he also gave us the power to kill but he doesn't want us to do that either not saying you don't have a point just saying that we can do things we shouldn't
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: alucard on September 07, 2005, 14:24:22
Ecclesiastes 3:1  To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven , and there is a time and a place for everything but every action does not serve God.  God had his people slay the wicked, but never in representation of him has anyone been raped.  He does not promote consensual sex out of wedlock,much less rape.
 God does not sin, he is perfect;his followers sin.  God must condone magic, for what are prayers?  He does not, however, permit the use of magic for selfish means, IE, love spells and the summoning of demons.  In the bible it says that these occult powers come from Satan.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: CaCoDeMoN on September 07, 2005, 14:48:55
Quote
He does not, however, permit the use of magic for selfish means, IE, love spells and the summoning of demons.
Bible does not allow using magick at all. Exodus 22:17: "Thou shalt not suffer a Witch to live."
Quote
In the bible it says that these occult powers come from Satan.
Tell me the exact verse, I never heard of it.
And if it really says it then it's just plainly wrong. What people call magick is not dependent on eternal entities but is a gift that most(or all?) people have from birth, only not everyone ackonwledges it and knows how to use it.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: alucard on September 07, 2005, 16:35:01
QuoteWhat people call magick is not dependent on eternal entities but is a gift that most(or all?) people have from birth
If you believe that there is a god then this gift comes from him, because he created you.  A prayer is nothing more than a spell and a ceremony nothing more than a ritual.  Take the sacrament for example.  You drink wine in representation of the blood of christ and eat bread which represents the body of christ; you are asking the lord for forgivness through ritual.  Baptism.  You are envoking an entity (the holy ghost) into your body.  Tell me that is not magic.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: CaCoDeMoN on September 08, 2005, 05:50:30
Quote
If you believe that there is a god then this gift comes from him, because he created you. A prayer is nothing more than a spell and a ceremony nothing more than a ritual. Take the sacrament for example. You drink wine in representation of the blood of christ and eat bread which represents the body of christ; you are asking the lord for forgivness through ritual. Baptism. You are envoking an entity (the holy ghost) into your body. Tell me that is not magic.
It is magick, but only a ceremonial kind. Nearly all ceremonial magick is like asking someone for a help, when we have our own powers. Sometimes it's needed, but I think that only developing own magickal strength is a way to real power.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: alucard on September 08, 2005, 14:52:49
YES!  My views exactly.  This is why I strive to create my own magical system and  encourage others to do the same.  I've made all of my tools myself; tarot, ceremonial tools, even my own way of making siguls.  A system created by someone else, though powerful, can never be as useful as one you create to match your views and expressions.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: CaCoDeMoN on September 08, 2005, 15:46:31
Quote
YES! My views exactly. This is why I strive to create my own magical system and encourage others to do the same. I've made all of my tools myself; tarot, ceremonial tools, even my own way of making siguls. A system created by someone else, though powerful, can never be as useful as one you create to match your views and expressions.
I also use my own magical system and methods of summoning, mostly because summoning methods used most commonly seem to be abusive to spirits.
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: alucard on September 08, 2005, 17:20:13
I am always anxious to hear about others methods.  What is the foundation of your system?  IS the whole thing your own or did you borrow rituals from other systems?
Title: Do not invoke lucifer
Post by: CaCoDeMoN on September 09, 2005, 05:14:34
Quote
I am always anxious to hear about others methods. What is the foundation of your system? IS the whole thing your own or did you borrow rituals from other systems?
I always tried to find what is the essence of all magical workings(excluding summonings to some extent). I've found out that the key is the correct state of cosciousness and absolute concentration on intent.
So my method is to simply formulate "wish"(there are only few rules to it), go into trance and repeat it(in mind) for about a minute. Somewhat similar to trance affirmations. It is amazing what can be done this way.