The Astral Pulse

Psychic and Paranormal => Welcome to Psychic and Paranormal! => Topic started by: open_mind on September 28, 2004, 18:53:58



Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: open_mind on September 28, 2004, 18:53:58
i have used this and to this point i havent had one attacker that havent given upp. allthought i havent had any realy powerfull attackers yet, it is allways my first reply after that i am attacked.

in fact if i dont remember all wrong, i first read about this on your homepage[:)]


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: kiauma on September 28, 2004, 19:01:02
As always Tayesin, a Masterfully insightful post.  I thank you very much!

Of course, as in any spiritual work, one must begin with oneself.  I must confess, for some time now I haven't felt very loving.   What can I do to help myself feel more loving after my life has gone through a difficult and fatigueing period?  Where should one start?  



Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on September 29, 2004, 01:38:39
Open Mind,
I've used this method since my Kundalini raising and Oneness experience, so I think what the difference is here is that I am becoming self-realized and knowingly use the power available to me.  Before that I was using the Shield method I descibed in my home pages, and it worked for all but the strongest attackers.

Over the last few years I have come to understand that this Love method works well for the self-empowered and those who are yet to reach that point should be using a Shield that can be renewed and strengthened easily.

All I can suggest Open Mind, is to persevere with it and also use your shielding.  In the meantime continue with your spiritual growth.. I am sure it will come together and work for you with continued practice.

It is very important to really feel the Love when you do this, otherwise it may be less powerful in it's effects.

Kaiuma,
Thanks.  Yes to not feeling so Loving in these times when life is very difficult.  And I don't think we have to be Loving all the time, as we often feel different to that.  Yet, for this method to work as well as it does for me you need to feel that Love as a real thing inside you.  You know that this Loving energy is the primary energy of the creator/awareness ? So when you are astral and working with Guides/angels etc, you would feel the Love this way.  This is the feeling I use, and the more I try it the better my calling up the feeling works for me.

I just had an idea....thanks, I am going to try this method in other facets of day to day life too.  And see what changes.

Love Always. [:P]


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on September 29, 2004, 09:02:30
hmm, i use different method but the result is the same
haven't met anything powerful, i admit
but normally i just drain them to their core (from experimentation), it never made sense to me to not change the attacker, and when they are weakened i "infect" their core pattern with positive energy, changing it's  structure, and give some of their energy back, rest i give back to universe
after that i set them free, noone returned


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: kiauma on September 29, 2004, 13:25:37
You know that this Loving energy is the primary energy of the creator/awareness ?

Yes, I do know that, however in the past few years my time has been increasingly spread tightly thin, and I have sorrowfully neglected my meditations and AP exercises.  Your insight is spot on.  We could talk and talk, but unless I freshly experience for myself the loving primary energy from which all comes I will not be able to fill my Being with it.

It has been a long time.  Thanks to your gentle reminder, I am resolved to resume my meditations and AP exercises.

Many Thanks to you again, Tayesin.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on September 30, 2004, 02:07:55
Hi,
Thanks for the replies folks.  

Kiauma,
I am glad this has helped you in some way. [:D]

DaemOn,
I had not thought to try and deplete the attackers energy because this method works so very well.  but, I will give it a go and report back on the results.

Love Always.[:)]


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: TheDarkApprentice on September 30, 2004, 05:54:47
Except for in cases in such as Tayesins, how would you get in contact with another powerful medium/psychic if you wernt looking for any troble? Would a powerful evil psychic sense you presence if you were close to them and decide to have fun with you??


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on September 30, 2004, 08:43:55
what fun ??, he would just ignore you
to have fun you need interaction and not:
one thought
*thud*


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Circe on September 30, 2004, 23:51:45
The government stuff is weird, if not scary. Here's what I found, her name is Cheryl Welsh.  http://www.mindjustice.org/

Cheryl is one of the few people on the planet the UN considers a non-lethal weapons expert. Want proof? This is what you do.  Go to te website for the United Nations Institute for disarmament research here: http://www.unidir.org/bdd/fiche-ouvrage.php?ref_ouvrage=92-9045-002-2-en

Then Clink on the link that says Launch of the 2002 Media Guide to Disarmament in Geneva. Click on the link that says Media Guide (you will need acrobat reader to view). Goto page 25 of the Media Guide and you will see Cheryl's name listed as one of several experts.

The UN recognizes phenomenon connected to government mind control, it's not conspiracy theory it's fact.


If love works why couldn't the people being attacked stop it themselves?


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aryanknight666 on October 01, 2004, 01:49:12
[:D][:o)][^][:D]


Oh my god! there's a guy trying to kill me with an axe!!!

Oh! Oh! I LOVE JOO!!!!!!!


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on October 01, 2004, 01:58:43
quote:
Originally posted by Circe

If love works why couldn't the people being attacked stop it themselves?



Hi Circe,
The people being attacked simply did not know they could do anything for themselves.  As is usually the case, people think they need to get a psychic or other spirit-worker to do it all FOR them.

Now they have been taught in one-on-one sessions, simple and effective things to do for themselves that are slowly building their own power and strength again after being depleted by attacks.

Thanks for the links you supplied, I will go and check them out.

Love Always. [:)]


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Anonymous on October 01, 2004, 02:53:24
Hi Tayesin

Yet another example of darkness seeking resolution (they all are, really, but most seem to not understand that). Good for you for giving it to them and then releasing them. I posted a similar technique recently, but I think you have said it more eloquently than I did.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Circe on October 01, 2004, 05:09:51
Why were they depleted by the attacks? And they didn't they go to a psychic (you) for help? Why did you help them?

You might as well try that one too: http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/

Shows pictures of brain implant removal.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: kiauma on October 01, 2004, 09:51:35
It's about letting go of the 'victim' mentality, which people are far less willing to do than you might think.  It involves a choice which nobody else can make but the person involved.

Give a person a fish and he will eat for a day.  Teach a person to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.
-I don't remember.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Euphoric Sunrise on October 01, 2004, 10:55:01
Just wanted to say that this method of dealing with negativity is so refreshing. I'm by no means experienced in this area, but it seems to me that most people try and combat 'negs' with more negative energy. It's been my experience with life in general that negative energy breeds negative energy, and so feeding negative entities with more negative energy seems strange, even if the intention is for a positive outcome. To diffuse the negative energy of the entity with positive energy makes much more sense. I hope more people adopt this attitude towards dealing with any negative energy, be it a neg or something else.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on October 03, 2004, 10:17:45
quote:
Originally posted by Circe

Why were they depleted by the attacks? And they didn't they go to a psychic (you) for help? Why did you help them?



Hi Circe,
Attacks take many forms.  Many syphon off your energy through a variety of means.  Many employ tactics to not only syphon the energy, but also have the experiencer doubting themselves, their realities and abilities..which is highly disempowering when you no longer have a clear concept of who you are and why you do things etc.

Most of the people I have seen so far have been to psychics who provide old fashioned remedies that may no longer work in the raising energies we are experiencing now.  They sought help from medical establishment, mental health workers, etc.  These people have slipped through as the too-hard-basket-cases.

I helped them because I was asked for help.  And in the bigger picture this healing is my speciality even though I really don't want to do this type of stuff !!  So opportunities to work this healing method present themselves to me so I can grow, develope further and hopefully mature into the work more effectively.

Kiauma said,
"It's about letting go of the 'victim' mentality, which people are far less willing to do than you might think. It involves a choice which nobody else can make but the person involved."

Perfectly said.  It's great more people are becoming aware of how important it is to drop the VICTIM concept from our entire belief structures.

"Give a person a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a person to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.
-I don't remember."


Jesus was supposed to have said it.  I love to use that quote, it says it all for me.  

Ender and Euphoric,
Thank you both for your insight and support, I really do appreciate them.  I loved that your posts were short, to the point and spot on too !!  

Love Always. [:)]


Title: Attacked by Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on September 28, 2004, 15:19:33
Hi,
I'm posting this because I want to share with you all how I dealt with an attack of two weeks ago, and some other notable ones from this year.  My method is totally opposed to every other way you will read here or most anywhere else for that matter.

I was helping a lady who had been 'Hooked' at her local spiritual church.  After I scanned for implanted hooks the man responsible rushed at me yelling, " You don't have the right to do this."  I laughed and told him I was asked for help, he was no longer needed and could leave.  Which he did.  It works with a lot of them !

This man is the founder of a well known institute for spiritual growth in this country, and possibly others.

Later that night he returned with his mother who had trained him as a strong psychic/medium/traveller.  I felt him approach before he entered my energy field (about 40 feet radius usually).  He was very good at what he does and went straight for the weakness he could see.

While I physically felt him assaulting me through my sacral chakra, I searched for something about him to give me the motivation to Love him unconditionally.... and I found he was being used by higher/more powerful sources which really got the empathy flowing strongly in me.

Since I felt for him being used as a puppet, I could Love him easily and did what I always do when I feel it.  I pour Golden Light into them from my heart chakra, even if I am feeling fear !  

He softened in my 'arms' and I could see in his eyes the realization beginning for him that he had been used by others including his own mother.  The Love filled him and he left with a clearer perception on his situation.

Now two weeks later I have gotten an affirmation that he has been affected because he did not M.C an important Church Ordination last weekend that he would have normally presided over.  I have felt him many times since the attack, and each time I am concerned for him because he will be hit hard by the Controllers.  And maybe he might rejoin them, maybe not.

While this man is very strong, he is nowhere near as strong as some of the Controllers I have had to work against.  One was an operative for your own government's mind control programs..but, he eventually failed in his duty and was replaced.  He was so effected by this Loving method, and let's not forget he was a professional in this field.

In January I was working with a lady and was astralling to her on holidays to renew the shield I was using on her, when I was attacked by the large Thing (looked like a traditional demon) that had been IN her for 14 years.  I wrapped my arms around it and just Loved it with the Gold Light, and cut it's dark-greyish chord to the lady.  I took him into the Light to speed up his healing then removed the remains of his attaching chord.  He has not returned.

Right now another entity I used this method on about two and a half years ago has returned after recouperating and regaining his strength, but not all of it !!  He is changed !  He will put up a fight but it won't be a lasting one, as he will still have no means to combat the Primary Energy weapon we feel as Love.

Once he was a fearsome thing to see and feel.  He easily entered people's dreams and physical areas at the same time, while also harrasing me the first time about six years ago .... a powerful entity.  And one that has been reported in many places overseas, in the US too.

So the moral of this story is.....

All the other ways you could use may or may not work, and most rely on your beliefs.  'Negs' cannot be destroyed, exiled for long or anything else permanently.  But, they can be altered, from the inside with Love.  It is a profound change that happens in them and the more we hit them with it the quicker they dissolve into a more healthy and balanced being.

Try it for yourselves.  If you are in fear at the time, just remember the feeling of being loved and it will build up in you until you feel it again.  Then pour it into your attacker.  All it takes is to focus your mind in that stressful situation and effect a positive change.

Love Always.[:)]


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Circe on October 13, 2004, 23:45:49
Sorry I don't believe any of this...the people you are tangling with work on people's beliefs systems while simultaneously working on their senses. We all dream, sometimes little fleeting moments which should normally pass when we turn our attention to something else. These guys remove you from reality by trapping you in the dream and begin working on you from there (I'm wondering if this is similar to Robert Bruce's purported "Core Images"), and it doesn't matter if you have a warrior mentality and want to kill everything or if you want to love everything. They manipulate both to their advantage. And I wouldn't trust what appears on the surface either. These guys play games, and will set up anything to have you believe you have succeeded (and that is why they are professionals). Not showing up to MC a major event could be just a show. Show me permanent behavior in physical reality (ie, you have to get in to close proximity). I don't trust psychics or psychic abilities, they always end up being the loudspeaker to what these people put out. I have never met a psy that checked, rechecked, and questioned the source.

For those of you out there in the US who have tangled with the Mind Control perps, especially those suffering electronic torture, Congressman Hastert is talking to people and taking accounts. If enough accounts are taken, they may be able to open a larger investigation and light can finally be shed on this hell.

He can be reached by email at this link: http://www.house.gov/hastert/contact.shtml

Instructions: send in a statement that you are being harassed by non-consensual radiation or targeting (or whatever) and/or direct energy that is causing whatever. Donít make it too long, just get to the point.

If you want snail mail:

Congressman J. Dennis Hastert
D.C. Office
235 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: 202-225-2976
Fax: 202-225-0697


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on October 14, 2004, 01:10:08
Hi Circe,
Firstly, thank you for providing the information to report Mind-Control attacks.  I hope some people take advantage of that.

I certainly agree with you on the intricacies of psychic attacks, and very definately about psychics who do not check and re-check their sources.  

But, many of us we have already established the means to KNOW who or what we are dealing with.  It may sound a little strange to you Circe, but, we have learned to know the difference by the Feeling.  It is not something that can be Faked by an attacker, as their intentions are clear to us who are working this side of things.  Not sure if I can put that in simpler words.

Awakenings empower us, the stronger and 'higher' the awareness is the more able we are to deal with whatever comes our way.  This is a mechaniccal process that allows us to know surely that the Being we are dealing with has certain agendas and intentions that cannot be hidden from Light.  It is really quite a simple thing to see clearly when Self-empowered.

This does not say that we cannot be fooled for a short time though, as each of us is still learning and none of us are in an Ultimate position to deal with the Darkest Offenders until we are re-joined with the Higher-Self through Oneness Experiences and therefore open to a whole lot more available energy to discern what is what and what is not.

Did I say that in a way that was easy to understand ?  I hope so.  It is such an intricate situation to illustrate with this communication we call words.  It is best experienced for each individual.

And, we couldn't possibly experience attacks without a couple of pre-requsites.  Firstly, we as a Soul must have chosen to have these experiences in this life, otherwise the Creative Source could not provide it for us.

Secondly, in doing so we also allowed an opening by whatever means we used, drugs, alcohol, anger, etc.  This too was a choice we made.. so how can anyone actually be a victim ?  Now I know this will inflame some readers !  It is jsut the way it is for now, well, until we each reach Clarity.

Love Always.  :D


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Circe on October 24, 2004, 15:27:48
I still disagree with you immensely. I've seen this for years now, and these people are con artists, big time.

And quite frankly when you start off a thread with an air of "Victory is Mine" that doesn't inspire trust in me that you are checking. There are 3 types of people in this phenomenon: the ones that are alive and trying to stay alive, the ones who were mentally, emotionally, and spiritually destroyed and are now institutionalized and lost to us in this life, and the one who are dead. This is not a joke or entertainment, it is a gravely serious matter.

For those of you who are suffering wither currently or in the past, there is finally some more good news, and you'll it here in the Sunday Times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2090-1313808,00.html

And for those of you who still don't believe the electronic weapons exist I suggest you try this. Go to http://thomas.loc.gov/ That's the Library of Congress website. Once you get there, look under the column that says legislation and click on Bills 101st - 108th. This will take you to a page that will have the listing of all the documents of all the congresses from 101st to 108th congress. Click the link for the 107th congress. Once at the site for the 107th congress, in the slot for bill number, type in HR 2977. Now this will take you to a site called Space Preservation Act. It was an act to prevent weapons launched into space. If you're wondering why I am having you look at this, scroll down to the bottom of the page and look at the definitions of the "Exotic Weapons" to be banned. It doesn't prove Mind Control experimentation, it does prove these weapons exist and that the government is aware of them. And if you're wondering what weapons control climate, I suggest you google something called HAARP, and look into getting a book called "Angels Don't Play This HAARP."

The CIA has experimented on human beings unknowingly and without permission in the past, and they are still doing it today with these new weapons, and so are many other governments worldwide. It can't be proved physically, so people are left to suffer and eventually die. They need serious help and compassion, not egotistical snobbery.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on October 25, 2004, 02:02:36
Hi Circe,
Thank you again for your input.  I agree that the mind-controllers have been using various mechanical/electrical tools to attack individuals with.  Some people actually describe the sensation of it as having a metallic quality or sound to it.  It should also have a signature vibration to it, one that a sensitive person could feel, much like a butterflies in the belly feeling.

I do not doubt that some peoples attacks are excrutiating events for them, and get worse as time goes by without assistance.  While this is all true Circe, it does no good to perceive what was offered here as being from an Ego for it's own benefits.

I only offered this as personal experiences that show other ways work very well indeed.. it was never meant as an "I'm so good" type of post.  In fact, it was only to share and show that this way really does work.  Nothing more was intended.

The perceptions of the Soul's responsibility in choosing to experience this comes directly from my own experiences of Higher-Self also.  Again, no Ego intended there.  Just a statement of fact to illustrate what I learned/remembered about just how powerful we all really are as great Souls.

The real difference between us Circe is only our Perceptions, we can stay confined in our Human Awareness and try to find something or someone to help us with the attacks, or do it all for us, or we can take steps for ourselves to get to the bottom of what is happening by getting into our own higher awareness levels and start seeing what is really in the events for us.

Considering that we humans are already kept confined by the powermongers so that we do not become empowered, I would think the road to recovery is the one that helps you to build your own strength and understanding of what is happening and by whom, and WHY.

But that is just my opinion and is not being forced upon you.

Thanks again for your reply Circe.

Love Always.  :D


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: McArthur on October 28, 2004, 02:22:49
Quote from: Tayesin

 It's great more people are becoming aware of how important it is to drop the VICTIM concept from our entire belief structures.

But some people actually are victims. If you're saying that some people use a "victim status" for sympathy etc then I agree. But that doesn't mean that we should tell those that really are victims that they can somehow stop being a victim just by imagining they aren't.

You also say:
Quote

Secondly, in doing so we also allowed an opening by whatever means we used, drugs, alcohol, anger, etc. This too was a choice we made..

I am sure that if people knew that certain activities might lead to psychic attacks they would be more liable to choose not to have an attack. You can't make a proper choice unless you have all the facts in front of you and know what it is you are choosing.

Quote

 so how can anyone actually be a victim ?

What about young babies or children that are victims?

Your attitude is the same one that some rapists come out with, "S/he got what s/he had coming."


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on October 28, 2004, 04:32:30
Hi McArthur,
The word Victim is a human concept.  We have to agree on that much.

The word basically says that someone has had an experience where they have suffered at the hands of another person or persons.  And in the human perception this seems very correct.

But what happens to this concept when you are looking in from your own Soul level awareness/perception ??  The human value judgement no longer applies !!

That's the awareness level we made our life plans and contracts for the experiences we wanted to have here.

In terms of being Human, a baby is no less human than an adult.  And the Soul of a baby is no less than the Soul of you and I.  

So if we chose to have certain experiences in this world as the Souls we are, then that must also apply to babies and little children.. because they too are Souls just like us.

Earth provides Souls with earthly/human experiences, Yes ?  We are born to this world as babies and grow through childhood, Yes ?  We have a lot of experiences during that time as we slowly grow to adulthood, Yes ?

Okay, so we probably agree on those three points.   So now we add the input of 'god' , the creative force/Source.

All of this would not exist without the creation of it by the Source.  That means all things that do happen on this world is a part of the creation here.  It also means that nothing can happen without the input of 'god'.

okay with this so far ?

If god provides the means for all things to happen on this world, as the creative force does, then god must not make value judgements on any of it.. since It is creating it all.

All the things we say are good or bad are created by the Source we call god, even though god must not stamp any of it as good or bad when it is created.  It just Is !

Anything we humans say is good or bad, is Us putting value judgements on things.  Yes ?  

We say that child is a victim because it suffered in the hands of someone or something.  Yet, God/Source created the event in the first place !!!

If this is so then how can we make a judgement that the Source has not ??  Are we more aware than the creator/god/source, and are then able to give something a character or value judgement that God did not ?  No we are not.

IF we Souls chose to have certain experiences, and the creator/god/source supports that choice by bringing it into reality, then who the heck are we to place judgements on it ??  We Confine and Define ourselves as something so very much smaller than what we really are by continuing to look at the world and all it's events through Blinkers.

What I am putting across is nothing like a Rapist's excuse for their actions.

Most people misunderstand this because they are still looking at it from a very confined human perspective only.  

So I suppose this will remain the case until enough people have had experience of their Higher-Self.  At which time our value judgements will no longer be a reality because we will see through the blinkered-awareness layers into Clarity and see that it was all meant to be and we did choose it.

Tay.  :D

PS.  Thanks for the link to RB's article.  What makes me laugh is I am saying the same things as RB yet I get abused and dumped on for it !!  LOL  Wonder why ?  :lol:


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: SpectralDragon on October 28, 2004, 04:42:41
Quote from: Tayesin
But what happens to this concept when you are looking in from your own Soul level awareness/perception ??  The human value judgement no longer applies !!

That's the awareness level we made our life plans and contracts for the experiences we wanted to have here.

In terms of being Human, a baby is no less human than an adult.  And the Soul of a baby is no less than the Soul of you and I.  

So if we chose to have certain experiences in this world as the Souls we are, then that must also apply to babies and little children.. because they too are Souls just like us.


I think the center of the whole issue lies with this. If you believe in this occurance you likely side with Tay, or if not you don't, or maybe a kind of inbetween like myself.

I do believe your soul influinces your life, even if it isn't complete control of it, but there is still quite a level of chaos, based on descriptions of what happens and my own experiences.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on October 28, 2004, 04:55:56
Hi Spectral,
Good to see you around.

All this is about bigger pictures, instead of looking at everything just from our heavily confined and veiled human awareness.

Chaos is an intersting word to use.  I think I would use Free-Play instead.  It would make a whole lot more sense when applied to our Free will factor.

I see that our life's choices are no where near as confined as what we think they are, so it doesn't mean Predeterminism either.  

Imagine that one earth-life is lived on a matrix-like structure that moves along in one major direction...birth to death.  When we made our life plans we chose absolutely ga-zillions of things to be able to choose from when incarnate, so as we move along the Matrix we can make choices that will send us along another fibre of the Matrix.. even though they are all heading for the same end-zone.  What you can experience is available on the matrix-choices.. and what we cannot experience this time was simply not included in the Matrix by us when making the choices we wanted to have about Experience.  And Experience is all that life is about really.

In this way the Soul we really are has made the choices, and we as the forgetting little human aspect live it a step at a time and choose accordingly.  Just because we can only see the smallest part of the Life-Matrix doesn't mean it isn't really there for us !

Thanks Spectral.

 8)


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: SpectralDragon on October 28, 2004, 07:04:25
Quote from: Tayesin
Hi Spectral,
Good to see you around.

All this is about bigger pictures, instead of looking at everything just from our heavily confined and veiled human awareness.

Chaos is an intersting word to use.  I think I would use Free-Play instead.  It would make a whole lot more sense when applied to our Free will factor.

I see that our life's choices are no where near as confined as what we think they are, so it doesn't mean Predeterminism either.  

Imagine that one earth-life is lived on a matrix-like structure that moves along in one major direction...birth to death.  When we made our life plans we chose absolutely ga-zillions of things to be able to choose from when incarnate, so as we move along the Matrix we can make choices that will send us along another fibre of the Matrix.. even though they are all heading for the same end-zone.  What you can experience is available on the matrix-choices.. and what we cannot experience this time was simply not included in the Matrix by us when making the choices we wanted to have about Experience.  And Experience is all that life is about really.

In this way the Soul we really are has made the choices, and we as the forgetting little human aspect live it a step at a time and choose accordingly.  Just because we can only see the smallest part of the Life-Matrix doesn't mean it isn't really there for us !

Thanks Spectral.

 8)


Indeed, I do believe this will help clear things up quite a bit here  :) Interesting way of explaining it.

-Jason


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Circe on October 28, 2004, 09:21:46
With all due respect, you are no where near Robert Bruce.

Robert preaches personal responsiblity for Everyone. Your focus relies solely on the victim, and no personal responsiblity for anyone else.

Life is just as MacArthur states, it is filled with chaos for a reason...life isn't dictated by JUST you it is dictated by everyone. And every once in a while there will be a collision caused by a conflict of interest. The situation is resolved by having both sides make compromises. You on the other hand place the burden of compromise on the shoulders of the victim, as if they had total control over the perp and his attitude. MacArthur is right, you share the same attitude as a rapist with no concern for the victim whatsoever (and do you ever ground inr eality...all I hear from you is wax philisophical, and there is nothing philosophical about this experience).

If you don't acknowledge the individual pieces you'll never see the big picture. Or you'll see what you want to see. You can't ignore the smaller pieces of the picture to see everything.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Circe on October 28, 2004, 10:18:36
You know the name of this sin is expectation.People have expectations of what resources are supposed to be available, what freedoms are supposed to exist. And when people and situations don't meet the required expectations, the person or situation is blamed instead of the indidividual witht he expectation.

It never occurs to you to do some self examination of your expectations, to adjust when necessary. Are you that important that the world is to conform to you?

You work for God my friend, not the other way around.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on October 28, 2004, 10:29:25
Circe,
Why personally attack me ?

Have I attacked you personally ?  No I haven't.

But I will defend myself from your personal attack Circe.  If I manage to offend you again then I apologize in advance for whatever may come from me as I type.

You say I am nowhere near RB.  How would you know ?  You do not know me or my work and experience from Adam, so you have no rights to attack me and judge me so.  

What compromise can there be in neg attacks Circe ?  None at all.  What does compromise us is our Belief structures.

Yes I do ground.  And I do journey.  I am successful in my work with negs and helping others to their own higher awareness levels.  Do you ?  

You see my posts as Philosophical.  I tell you they are based only on real experience that I share.  

Why should I become emotionally involved when I am working with negs, "have no concern for the victim whatsoever", when there is no Victim in the bigger picture.  

Beliefs are what make Victim's in this world, the Souls who have these experiences do not see themselves as Victims so why should you ?

Perhaps you may like to read what RB has to say about beliefs and reality structures before you tell me I do not know anything.......

http://www.astralpulse.com/articles/robert/articles_31.htm#4


Tay.

......another one from you while I was typing this reply.....

Quote by Circe, "It never occurs to you to do some self examination of your expectations, to adjust when necessary. Are you that important that the world is to conform to you?

You work for God my friend, not the other way around."


I have no expectations in relation to any spiritual matters.  This thread is only to share what I discovered while I journeyed in the Realms over 25 years, and how that is applied in my practice, to illustrate that there are new and better ways to do things.  

And once again, if you do not know me how can you judge me as thinking the way you claim I do ?

Yes, I am important to this world, AS WE ALL ARE !  

My round peg will not go into your square holes of Belief.

God doesn't give a hoot about you or me or anyone else for that matter because it is not what you think and believe it is.

I work with the Creative Source of this Universe... it supplies all my needs and supports what I do in my work with others.  

God is not my Boss, Circe... it is my Partner !!!!!!!!!   Always has been.

My life's tasks this time are to bring in these new ways, as are the other few thousand in this world at the moment who are here to do the same thing.  

Tell me, do you know what you are really here for, what your specific tasks are in this life ?  

Someone once said, "If you don't like what you are reading on this thread, and it brings up something in you, then you need to look at that issue.   Or stop reading this thread. "

Take the advice Circe please and stop your personal attacks on me.

Edited by me today

...  I felt so terrible for letting myself drop into the defence turns into attack syndrome, so felt the need to remove anything I saw as a personal attack on you Circe.  

Thank you Spectral.

Tay


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: SpectralDragon on October 28, 2004, 11:12:04
Quite frankly, I am seeing a bit of childishness on both sides here. Insults have been thrown, fury has set in, and the inability to listen to what the other is trying to get at has started. Understanding, rather than knowledge, is the key to enlightenment and moving forward. You can't do that when you are not willing to accept that either you are percieving what is being said the wrong way, or that you are nor presenting what you are trying to say the right way.

I was going to make a long reply, but there is really nothing else to say.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: narfellus on October 28, 2004, 14:17:38
It can be difficult, can it not Tayesin, when one is attacked personally for his or her beliefs, even when you feel justified, honorable and true, and frankly, the concepts are hard to understand for lots of people.  Interactions like the one above make me wonder how far one should raise the defense, to argue their opinion/mindset, or to simply let it go and not worry nor care what others think/say? I'm not quite sure how i would handle it myself, but i would probably feel anger initially if compared to having "the same attitude of a rapist", or "do you think you're so important the world must conform to you?" Our Human Duality works very well, doesn't it? And the illusion goes on...


Title: Wow! Thanks for this discussion.
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2004, 17:44:24
Hello

I am new to this board but I wanted to share my own experience and also to comment on what Circe/McArthur and Tayesin have said.

I am someone who has experienced an extreme attack and lived to tell about it.  Someone who is still dealing with it.  Someone who has never had and never will have "a victim mentality" and yet experienced what it means to be a victim.  When I first read Tayesin's post I thought "I wonder if I should tell him about my experience just to see what impressions he would get".  Another person with similar attributes of dealing with dark entities told me that they asked the negs about me and they said I was "no fun to play with."  LOL   This individual has the same belief systems as Tayesin--of which I disagree with, btw.  Because of course, it is a belief system, no more no less, and based on his experiences, knowledge, intuition, dreams etc.  And can and likely will change as he changes, evolves and grows (speaking for all of us here).

But I do want to make a comment about Tayesin's beliefs that he seems to be forgetting despite his worldly view and experience--he can only speak for himself.  He is the only one capable and qualified to speak for himself--but that applies to others as well.  If someone says "I had a neg experience" and it was NOT agreed upon by my soul/oversoul/higher self, then that person is absolutely correct--it was not agreed upon.  If someone says they do not have a victim mentality and they do indeed know themself well, then that is the truth.  They are the only one qualified to make that discerning judgement.  

So Tayesin, just remember that all your beliefs apply to you only--they are not "universal truth".  And having had the experiences I've had, I believe that Circe and McArthur's view points are much more practical and scientific, and just as valid.  Everything is energy.  If I stick an electric prod to a friends' head and he experiences a seizure or a temporary hallucination then he did so because of the voltage, not because his Higher Self discussed with my Higher Self that this would be a good thing to do.  Psychic attacks are energy projected as well--and they can are are done to people against their will.  It takes awareness frist of all, to avoid such an attack, and awareness itself won't make it go away.  From there you have to do something about it!  

I have read in ancient teachings that before a soul is "allowed" to become soveriegn, it has to go through hell.  Well, if this is true, if the "powers that be" (the non physicals on the God/Christ/SuperBeing circuit) have been using this to justify great suffering, than I plan to be one of the first to change that.  I understand that some suffering/pain is necessary to build character and embody compassion.  But I also know that that has been abused by both physical and non physical beings and it is time that people wake up.  

My two cents.  And if you knew what I had experienced, it might mean more than two cents to you.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on October 28, 2004, 22:19:23
Tayesin
it is funny how you miss the right words, over and over again, so i'll try for you, i hope you don't mind

that what doesn't kill me makes me stronger
if something kills me it doesn't make me stronger, only dead

if child (individual) survives the attack (any "negative" situation)  it will have to deal with the trauma and IF it resolves it will be stronger and more aware
i've been through lots of emotional/and what not/ excrement and i know damn well that if not for the emotional excrement i wouldn't be who i am now
IF refers to those who can help with the situation and learning the lesson - circe and mc arthur, for example
if not for them/ others like them i wouldn't have been able to learn the lessons, they are integral part of the equation, without them there would be no equation
without their help there would be no learning, for the student wouldn't survive/understand  the lesson

this life can makes us stronger and aware of our true potential, and some of us know that this potential surpasses all dreams, thoughts and beliefs

the problem is that we exist with others and without them there would be no lesson
and, the most important thing in my humble opinion, we can become aware of ourselves only through such situations, and to become ourselves we need occasional help on the way, with limited perception we CANNOT SEE EVERYTHING, and some things have to be explained to us

note: this is truth useful to achieve clarity, using your words, but not further, as you know


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on October 29, 2004, 00:03:12
Daem0n,
I do understand the process here, and what is being played out is of benefit to all concerned, even if we do not see it as such.

Also, I comprehend the service to me from Circe and Mc Arthur, as I did in our conversations, where I am being assisted in finding the most effective words to express what it is I am offering here.  And getting valuable experience with those who would kill the messenger.  

For this I deeply thank all who are involved in this process.

Narfellus,
This type of personal attack is very common here, especially on the Defence threads.  Unfortunately Circe's post got to me and I responded in kind.  I suppose it has to happen from time to time.  I much prefer to respond Lovingly, but even that wears thin after a while.

It still amazes me that when I offer this help from real experience, people firstly put 'dirt' on the ideas then immediately try to tear me down too.  They could have at least given this new way a decent try out first before telling me it was bulls-plop.  But this is the way of the world these days, sadly.  Messengers still get killed and the messages ignored.

Kaili,
Thank you for you input and opinions.  This thread was only to share from my own Experience.   I had hoped that other people would a least try the Love Energy as defence against Neg Attacks.  

This is a new way.  

It is extremely practical, as show by my own experiences with it, which were not just a light dabble but a full trial.  And it has only found great Success.

It is NOT a Belief.  It is from direct experience in the world and spiritual realms.

It does work

It is something the 'victim' can do to help themself, a concrete means to find their own power again and deal with the problem.

What I find is most people just are not ready to evolve into the new ways yet, some may never come to it, and all of them soundly refuse to even try.

So i find it very interesting that so many of you refuse to even look at it in a practical sense, preffering to stick with the old Belief-System ways.

Here is what Robert Bruce had to say on the matter of Beliefs.....
Quote....

"...The answer is way too simple for most people; so simple that they just don't get it. But that is the way of things. Mind you, I did get a little help and advice along the way, from a very high level, i.e., my higher self.

All knowledge is available to everyone. But most people refuse to see, to hear, to realize, because this conflicts with their paradigms, with their innate conceptions of reality. And there are none so blind as those who will not see. One must get back to basics, and by so doing to broaden ones conceptual horizons.

The method, if it can be called such a thing, is absolute honesty with your own true self. Know yourself, and to your own self be true. Discard everything not gained via personal experience. Do not take anything as read. Question everything and find out for yourself by doing and experimenting.

But this is a very difficult thing to do. We are surrounded by opinions and these sink into us, into our conceptual belief system filters, and these shape all our foundation beliefs; if we let them. This we must resist profoundly.

Look at everything with the eyes of a child: be open minded, non judgmental, simple, unfettered by the beliefs and opinions and shackles of others.

......  We strive and plead and beg for the truth, and I assure you it is given to us all at every turn. But we do not allow ourselves to see it. You see the majority of us are happy and content with our spiritual blindness. Even though much of it does not work, its comfortable, so we stick with it. This is called Maya, the illusion of the physical reality we all share. And there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.


Make a list of everything you believe in. Apply total honesty to this list. Keep everything you have personal experience with. Discard the rest, but remain open minded. If, for example, you have not experienced OBE, be open to experiencing it. Put all the stuff you have not proven personally into a basket of 'possibilities'. And transfer these possibilities carefully into the 'real stuff' basket as experience is gained. You will be surprised at how much stuff will never be moved, and will eventually end up in the trash at life's end.

After one has done ones best to purge his or her belief system filters, real knowledge comes through the realization process. A progressive number of small realizations (like pieces of jigsaw) flow into the mind. This is punctuated by progressively larger and larger realizations. This is the well-known road to enlightenment; which is described in many different ways in the world today.

...  The most important thing this being told me was how to progress beyond my current level. I was stuck and nothing was working. I was trying to see beyond normal reality, beyond Maya, but kept running into walls everywhere I looked. The voice told me why this was so, and what I could do about it. I was advised to dismantle my belief system (to remove my self imposed limitations) and to create a fresh one, based solely on personal experience, and logic based on personal experience, and many of the things I have said above.

... Ever since then I have argued and questioned just about everything. I take nothing as read. Because of this, most people have found me disagreeable, because I question their heartfelt beliefs. I did and still do this as nicely as possible, but it still seems to offend people. I do not mean to offend. I am what I am and I know what I know. Its not much, admittedly, and I consider myself to know comparatively little about this reality we all share. But what I do have is solid (solid to me anyway), although some things are subject to change without notice. What with the realization process being what it is, new facts and ideas are dropping in all the time. But I am slowly weeding out the errors and upgrading my conceptual belief system filters as best I can.

I take an idea and explore it, test it, live it. If it has merit it grows. If not it dies and I discard it. My lifelong motto is that one has to try out 100 crazy ideas before one uncovers a single gem. And if one does not entertain the crazy ideas, the gems will remain hidden forever. And man oh man have I tried some crazy ideas out.

Just because one has a strict belief system does not mean that one cannot try out new ideas, even crazy ones. Ideas, crazy or otherwise, are not heartfelt beliefs. But the gems one uncovers and proves have the potential to become true beliefs; even if everyone else disagrees. "


Love Always.  :D


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: McArthur on October 29, 2004, 01:33:08
kaili said:
and they can and are done to people against their will.

This is basically what I was getting at. The belief (and it is a belief as far as I am concerned) that we all chose to allow ourselves to suffer various things just doesn't feel right to me. Partly because it could cause some to think they are suffering for some Higher Purpose and influence them not to fight it. This is something that negs would typically use against a victim. This type of thing has been used against me personally, so I know what I'm talking about. Which is probably why I get a little... offensive about it.

And this belief would also mean that "Free Will" could never ever be abused...

If I have free will then I state here and now that I choose my free will to state I no longer wish to experience any more psychic atacks. Lets see if it works...  




Quote from: Tayesin

This type of personal attack is very common here, especially on the Defence threads.  Unfortunately Circe's post got to me and I responded in kind.

So you did the opposite of what you claim works in this thread. If you can't respond to someones criticisms (you call attacks) with this love energy then I have to say I have my doubts if you could do it with a demon that would be a whole lot nastier to handle.

Quote

 I suppose it has to happen from time to time.  I much prefer to respond Lovingly, but even that wears thin after a while.

See above. Are you saying you find it easier to send love to negs than to humans who criticise you?
Quote

It still amazes me that when I offer this help from real experience, people firstly put 'dirt' on the ideas then immediately try to tear me down too.  They could have at least given this new way a decent try out first before telling me it was bulls-plop.  But this is the way of the world these days, sadly.  Messengers still get killed and the messages ignored.

I think that your ideas might work in some cases. Such as with lost souls etc. If it works for you and you are able to help others through it then more power to your elbow. It wasn't your technique for healing I was criticising.
Quote

This is a new way.  

I think it's probably not as new as you believe it to be. Robert has commented on this idea of sending love and light to negs many times. In his own experience he has always (unless I am mistaken) claimed it didn't work.

Although I do believe he says negative energy can be transformed into positive, which is perhaps close to what you are saying.

I would certainly like to test your theory out, but right now I'm not able to.

edit: Sometimes I come across as a little brash, so apoligies in advance if I seem negative.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on October 29, 2004, 02:46:32
Hi McArthur.
I honestly don't see you as being brash, well, certainly no-where near as brash as many others here.  :wink:

The reason why I let myself respond the way I did intially to Circe's last post was because it is not just Circe doing it.  She was the last one to attack and it was the straw that broke the camels back, you could say.

Being a human being too, I must be allowed to be a human being, even if it means that on a very rare occassion I come out with guns a'blazin !!  :oops:

We all do it, and I truly think I have done well so far not to attack when being attacked.  At least not as a first response.

You must realize that this is not the only forun I am involved in and neither am I confined to sharing only in forums, I do so in the real world too.  Personal attacks come in from all these avenues thick and fast.  Just as RB said in the quoted passages above.

In your post you used the word Suffering.  I do not see anything as suffering in the big picture.  I see it as a test of our strengths, sometimes we 'fail' and other times we don't.

Again my words have been misunderstood to mean Pre-Determinism.  And they do not mean that at all.  A person may be experiencing something that they perceive as suffering, and may think that they chose to Suffer because of their higher choices/purpose... but, they can choose to experience otherwise if it was a Soul choice for this life.   Free Will is an active reality.

My point has always been that if a person was to get into their own bigger picture (Higher-Self Awareness) then they will see quite easily what the choices were and what they can do about it.  We can do this very easily if we stop believing that we can't.

Hand in hand with this point is the sharing of an easy method to reach this higher awareness of our's.  So not only do I offer a different way to see ourselves but i also offer an easier means to achieve it.

I know RB says he has not found sending love and light to a neg as being effective, and it isn't.  This has nothing whatsoever to do with what I am saying to you all !!

Sending Light is only sending useable energy for a neg,  sending Love is a conceptual thing that does not work either when the 'surface' we send it to is not open to it.

What I am talking about is facing the attacker.  Actually feeling all your fears and facing them anyway.  It doesn't matter if we are in our physical awareness or astral/higher, we only need to be aware of it happening in the moment.  Then we can face them and directly apply the flowing of Golden Love Energy INTO them.  This does Lighten them from the inside and fills them with this energy that they have no Defense for.

As you can hopefully see,  this is completely different to 'sending' light and love, and it is something that we all can do if we do not close off to the possibility.

I am also aware that RB has been saying similar to me, so in this respect it may not be NEW in this recent time.  Let me assure you that when I discovered it, it was a completely new thing for me and never heard of by most of the people I talk with and help.  The proof for this is that no one else here is saying it, and, in reality this is a NEW PROCESS that has become available to us as a DIRECT TOOL we have access to in this very important time.

It is one of the few things that are becoming availabe to us as our vibrations increase.  One more that we will be offered in the next level is the power to create and manifest things in the 3D world instantly.  Sounds far fetched doesn't it ?

It isn't though.  Many, many millions of years ago the different human-like forms we occupied on this world had this ability and we abused it to the point that we destroyed ourselves and thereby manifest the taking away of it from our consciousness.  

As our consciousness raises even higher we will be able to re-connect with this 'Gift'.  And, I have been told that I must tell others about this so that we know not to make the same mistakes again.  Believe it or not !

Thanks for the oopotunity to hopefully clear up a few misunderstandings McArthur.

love Always.  :D


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2004, 04:43:45
Quote

Kaili,
Thank you for you input and opinions.  This thread was only to share from my own Experience.   I had hoped that other people would a least try the Love Energy as defence against Neg Attacks.  

This is a new way.  

It is extremely practical, as show by my own experiences with it, which were not just a light dabble but a full trial.  And it has only found great Success.

It is NOT a Belief.  It is from direct experience in the world and spiritual realms.

It does work


Love was the very basis of my attack.  I thought the entity I was dealing with was a spiritual Being, someone I could trust--he felt familiar to me.  And I did love him.  He used that to gain further entry to me in a most invasive manner.  And when I challenged him, suspecting he was not who I thought, he admitted as such.  Love is not disenabling to them.  It is simply an opportunity.  

Is love disenabling to a rapist, murderer, or con man among humanity?  Do you believe you can simply "send love" to someone and it will stop a crime?  It doesn't--nor does it in the non physical realm.

What you need to keep repeating is your truth, but stated truthfully, which is that this technique worked for you with the entities that you encountered.  This technique not only did not work FOR me it worked against me.  Can we both be right?  I think so.  Ones experiences are very subjective in this universe.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on October 29, 2004, 18:43:28
ok Tayesin, simple message (simple = of utmost importance)
reality reflects yourself


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on October 30, 2004, 05:58:39
Hi Kaili,
Just loving them will not defend you.  

Seems everyone is missing the main point to this aspect.  You may like to re-read the description of how I do this particular process.

I see them and face them directly.  Then once I have found something to Love them for, I pour the Energy of that Feeling INTO THEM, while they continue their attack on me.  It is a Liquid Gold Light that comes from our heart chakra.  This is how it works.

Maybe you might like to try it exactly as described in the thread starting post Kaili ?

Any other way would be a half-hearted way.

It works for all people I have taught it to Kaili.  So it is not only effective for me.

I have to add this too.  This isn't just something I came up with to try.  It was something that I was led to by the Guides I work with and my own higher-self awareness.  Even recently when astral at a meeting with other life-forms about certain events to happen here on earth, I was reminded by one of the friendlies I call the Tall, milky-white Greys, that this is OUR strongest weapon against attack.

So this isn't my opinion or belief.  It is so for all of us who wish to move forward.

No amount of arguing over if it worked for others is applicable if the exact process was not used !  Simple as that Kaili.

Sorry if this offends you.  I do not intend to offend you, only to clarify some points about HOW to use the process.

Daem0n,
what the ?  Come on my friend, why are you repeating a New-Age Industry belief-concept to me now ?  

It is so if you believe it to be so Daem0n, and it does not if you choose no belief-structures to confine you.

The proof that this theory does not work is this.  Firstly, Imagine I am just Joe Bloggs down the street who has no experience outside of the standard 3D reality, okay ? So....

1. How can Joe's beliefs be reflected in reality when other people's beliefs are also involved, unless they share similar beief-structures ?  

2. How can they be reflecting to Joe what he believes when they may have different beliefs altogether ?  

3. And lastly, if Joe chose not to work from a belief basis then how could this theory possibly work to reflect his beliefs ?  

Love Always.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on October 30, 2004, 12:33:27
ok, i see you don't get it
the magic word belief is nowhere to be found
the reality doesn't reflect your beliefs, only yourself
to bring it in lower awareness level, what you see in others is in yourself

oh, and it is my direct experience, the last key that i needed and couldn't see it for myself because it was too simple, outside help was found,
 i see that you have similiar problem so decided to interfere


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on October 30, 2004, 12:55:26
Hi Daem0n,
I do see what you mean.  Apologies for adding the word Belief.

That others reflect something within ourself does apply... but does it apply in all situations Daem0n ?

I see that in many cases this concept is viable, but it cannot possibly apply in every circumstance that we experience.

How can I be a reflection of everyone else ?  And how can everyone else be a reflection of me ?  

The theory is way too confined in it's perception.  

Are you relating this to the thread topic or to the head to head with other members in the replies ?

Tay.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on October 30, 2004, 13:56:19
Tay, this is not theory, this is not to be considered in thoughts, but experienced
maybe you should visit kerri forum, you'll understand then ...


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on October 30, 2004, 14:25:34
hiya Daem0n,
Honestly, I do know what you are saying about this.  I have had similar discussions over the years with many people about this concept... and it is a Concept, even though it is valid in many cases.

What I understand about this concept is... I may have a firey response to someone and they may respond in the same manner.  The two are actually Feeling the same thing.  This is an indication that the two are reflecting/ mirroring  to each other the same issue or impediment.  It happens this way to help each other to move through the impedimant to reach a similar understanding and clarity.

The concept is ONLY relative and in no way is it absolute.

I also do go to Kerri's site as a Moderator.

I would dearly like to you to answer the few questions I asked you in the above posts Daem0n.

Love Always.  

 :P


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on October 30, 2004, 18:33:11
concept is only a concept, we agree on that
there is no absolute, at least for me now
so treat from now on all my posts as relative to help illustrate the point

two things can interact only when they have similiar frequencies
we may have merged with our high selves and subconscious, but there is something as unconscious, beyond the scope of our conscious minds upon which we have control (subconscious may be investigated, but unconscious is even deeper)
i understood this now, that, unconsciously we manifest some of our leftovers on deeper levels, and others (relative !) pick it up and show to ourselves
that allows us to repattern this leftovers
this struggle you experience is your struggle, only very deep, even beyond the scope of subconscious and cannot be adressed from introspection only
for example you are attacked from "i have the only truth" reason, even though you know that this is not true we(or i :)) pick it up and react accordingly, in my case this is nonchalance

reflections:
now there is trouble, for there are few words for that, i'll try anyway

we are connected with everything (indeed we are one, but this comes after realising mirrors, so is ineffective) and thus we have impact on everything, and everything has impact on us - our thoughts, expectations beliefs cause everything surroundings us (and everything else) to react accordingly, hence, mirror it (whew, sounds nice, but wonder if it works :P)
the closer the stronger, so if we are ticked off chances that storm will come are nil (at least for some :)), but chances that we will tinkle off everyone around as are great
the trick is to remove expectations, beliefs, and thoughts (and others i won't bother naming), and only thing that is left is will
joy, hapiness, compassion and love are states, not emotions, but they too obscure reality, of course you feel them anyway (at least from some point), but learn to ignore them (are not attached to them, many fell on this on their path to enlightment)
i was posting directly to you (me), this topic is just a medium


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Anonymous on October 30, 2004, 18:49:09
There is no "higher self".  There is no subconscious. You are you.  You are not split.  You are God.  If you believe in ANYTHING outside of yourself, "above" yourself, then you are giving your power away to something NOT YOU, but connected to you.  But we are all connected anyway, so don't do that.  Claim your soverign, individuated status, your gift.

If you are already taking advice from "friendlies" you have already given your power away.  Take it back.  Try to back away from your beliefs, the experiences they gave you...and see what happens.  Test your truth.  If it is true it can be scrutinized from all angles.  If it is true then you can be free to not believe too.  See what happens when you step outside the bounds of their influence.

It sounds to me like they have you hook, line and sinker...but you are still God.   Don't forget.

And at least you are spouting the good stuff...:-) :-)


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on October 30, 2004, 18:57:57
we are not split, but the limitations we imposed on ourselves are true to us until we become disillusioned, so "there is" high self up to some point
this is only one of many guidelines, and is in no way true
as everything


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: cprince on October 30, 2004, 20:20:52
In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, I banish all evil spirits.  With love and compassion, the energy from God, I raised my vibration that no evil can match and without that resonance, they can't get to me ;p


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Circe on October 30, 2004, 21:42:01
Finished with you? Hardly!

You've seemingly turned people into such aliens as if to make your reflection unrecognizable. Situations are different, and you are perfectly capable of adapting to the change to recognize it. Empathy is not that difficult a thing, nor is prioritizing. Until you learn how to feel someone elses experience, you'll continue to judge by your personal emotions and disavow the objective consequences of your actions as the true revelation of who you really are.

There is a helluva lot more to spirituality than the capacity for a few parlor tricks. Where this concept of "I can meditate so I am SO spiritual" came from is beyond me. And incidently, you teach people about who you are and what you believe every time you act or open your mouth. Don't give me that "You don't know me crap."

When I have the book I am looking for I will be back.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: SpectralDragon on October 30, 2004, 21:58:23
Quote from: Circe
Finished with you? Hardly!

You've seemingly turned people into such aliens as if to make your reflection unrecognizable. Situations are different, and you are perfectly capable of adapting to the change to recognize it. Empathy is not that difficult a thing, nor is prioritizing. Until you learn how to feel someone elses experience, you'll continue to judge by your personal emotions and disavow the objective consequences of your actions as the true revelation of who you really are.

There is a helluva lot more to spirituality than the capacity for a few parlor tricks. Where this concept of "I can meditate so I am SO spiritual" came from is beyond me. And incidently, you teach people about who you are and what you believe every time you act or open your mouth. Don't give me that "You don't know me crap."

When I have the book I am looking for I will be back.


It might be a good idea for you to back off for a while if you are going to be personally attacking individuals.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on October 31, 2004, 00:21:02
Daem0n,
Yes, I copletely agree with most of what you said, after I worked out what you meant in the words.  I Still have a little difficulty with understanding your english, but I'm getting there LOL.

Spectral,
Thank you , again.

 :D  :D  :D  :D


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on October 31, 2004, 08:52:09
now i have more time to post, so ...
kaili
split is illusion, however in our spliting we gave subconscious and high self different characters, and, agendas
so it is possible that high self can be acting against your development, as well as subconscious
i'm my ultimate authority all right, but that doesn't mean that i don't listen, nor should anyone
i am only talking about things i experienced now, i don't believe in anything
you are still in we and they concept ...

cprince
but you can be drained, for that matter (confirmed)
+ demons have high vibrations, so it's not really against evil, but low level stuff, nor there is evil anyway ... ;p

tay
another reason to train telepathy
and as you see, you attract them like flies (no disrespect whatsoever :D)


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on October 31, 2004, 18:11:22
It is kind of senseless to put defense straegies in one direction, it is just a
simply defense, which one will be easyly overrun by strong psychical folks.
Remember, evry war has got rules, but tricky strategies.
They are much trickier on the mental spheres.

A good defense strategy need to be modulated, you know this.
 don't try to throw with stones in a glass house!
Shields are senseless, too, as they also tend to build one-dimensionally and  suck energy, when they don't needed.


search a good doctor, not the cia

analyze first, what an attack is and prove, how much you amplified this attack by your own energy.Not every attack need to be an attack, as you decide if this is an attack or not.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Anonymous on October 31, 2004, 22:31:55
Quote
split is illusion, however in our spliting we gave subconscious and high self different characters, and, agendas
so it is possible that high self can be acting against your development, as well as subconscious


Yes, it is possible for the so called Higher self to have different characters and agendas--because it isn't necessarily you.  You can be fooled and you can be led astray by what you think is your Higher Self--so don't give your power to anything other than your own truth.  Your conscious self.  We are not all One--the darkness says that because they want it that way--but we are all connected--there is a big difference.  Do you really think we would have so many individuated consciousnesses if individuality were not important/valuable to Spirit?  

Unless you have embodied your Divinity already, your source of wisdom is your own truth-- an honest accounting of your experiences, feelings, thoughts.  Don't disregard your human self and sensibilities so carelessly--they are considered priceless everywhere else.

(I consider "embodying your Divinity" to mean all knowing and being empowered--don't know anyone like that although we always "hear" about it don't we?  The ever present carrot before the horse, the ever present Savior so many are waiting for, with differnet names in different cultures).

Tayesin:
I think it's awesome that you can look negative beings (those who seek to infringe on your or others free will) straight in the eye so to speak and send them real love.  And that they respond in the hoped for manner.  My correcting you is in the fact that when I did this, the Beings liked it.  And they wanted more.  And they are still around.  And still seeking to influence and manipulate both my thoughts and my emotions.  

 I have found some negs to be spiritually, like children.  Playful, and unmindful of suffering.   How could they be--many have never been physical and don't know what it means to feel pain, to feel confined.  Whatever you are doing, if it's working, great.  I just wanted to broaden your perspective.  Our experiences are subjective.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on October 31, 2004, 23:40:43
i know of everything you have written, and i agree with you except for:
on lower levels i am one with everything (but don't know (or percieve, i'm limited to my senses) everything yet, this is a matter of time ..), however higher level beings, light or darkness, are not me
this would be adressed in ascension to full consciousness, current body is unable to hold the soul, only parts of it (and knowledge they contain is really interesting ...)
darkness comes from the light, after all

Tay:
if you disagree with me on details post it, the "devil lies in the details"


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on November 01, 2004, 07:50:40
Hi all,
I'm sure there are countless words out there to describe what we call the higher-self.  Over-soul, over-self, Soul, etc, etc.  

We know it exists at a level 'higher' than the Astral because it is a totally different experience level we have and it is experienced outside/beyond the Astral or mental bodies.

There also seems to be some misconception of what relationship we have with the higher-self.  We read the words.. Higher... and ... Self.  It is very self explanatory....  

When you do have the experience of connection with your higher-self, the illusion that you are separate, and powerless, will disappear quickly.  The possibility that this huge and extremely powerful being that YOU are a portion of, could be doing anything AGAINST your best interests would knowingly become an illogical thought that didn't fit the reality of this particular Higher-Awareness experience. (geez, that was a mouthful)  :lol:

Should you then experience re-emergence and totality with the great being we call our higher-self, it will change the way you look at everything in this world we are living in.  

Keep the emergence, knowingly, while in your human3D awareness and you are more able to see from the bigger picture awareness level, IN, to this heavily confined and structured 3D reality.. effectively altering your day to day perceptions of it all.  

It's a hard task to knowingly function in this 3D reality as well as the Astral and higher awareness levels, all at the same time.  The amount of data and communications you are actually part of pushes our little human awareness around a fair bit, so we have life stuff-ups too.

The idea that we are separated into different consciousnesses does appear to be valid in the 3D Perception and even the Lower Astral.  Yet, maybe it isn't separation at all.....   perhaps it is more that we are smaller portions of the Diversified Whole.  No real boundary between us except for the ones we perceive and create ?  In this way we are all One, only not the slightest bit aware of the fullness of our Combined Awareness.  

Kaili,
I do see what you are saying to me.  I wonder if the difference we experienced with this technique is because of something Daem0n pointed out to me in previous conversations.   Maybe, it is only that we have each been open to completely different awareness levels.   And experience of these levels of ourself makes the method work so very well for me and those I teach it to than for others who may not be open to the immense power we are open to, Yet ?  Just a thought.

Thanks everyone for your valuable input.  I have learned some things from these conversations with you all.

Love Always.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 01, 2004, 15:04:25
i agree with what you said except for that detail we argued before, namely omniknowldge (whatever it should be properly) of high self, but i doubt that there are many (any?) here that want to explore further
lol, i merged with him and i say: high self doesn't know everything, and may not know your best interest if you want to explore beyond your soul's purpose (IF..), it doesn't concern me anyway now
take care


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on November 01, 2004, 21:04:28
Hi Daem0n,
Yes, I too agree that the Higher-Self is not the be all and end all of our awareness levels (Omni-knowledge).  There must be even bigger pictures beyond that awareness level.

But in all honesty, merging with the Higher-Self knowingly is probably the highest experience of our greater self that we might experience for now ??  It is still a massive step up in our evolution Daem0n.  Not many people will even come to experience this level of awareness, let alone re-merge again with the Higher-Self.

I read where you had thought you must have merged with yours, at Kerri's forum.  I could tell from the wording that you actually have done so too.  The thing that showed this to me was your saying how It wasn't able to be contacted again, as if it had left...  I had the same experience after re-merging.  It seems that way only because we have assimilated It into our self... so in essence it now knowingly resides within us while also being active on the higher planes/levels.

Haven't used the best words to describe this here, but I am confident you know what I mean by these words.

Thanks Daem0n.  :D


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Anonymous on November 02, 2004, 00:16:18
There is a book out called "Dear God!  What's Happening to Us?  Halting Eons of Manipulation".  The woman who wrote the book was a best selling author who experienced at least three years of hell at the hands of what she calls "the Others".  

She learned from her experience and her guides, that when we choose to incarnate into this world, we do not necessarily choose our consciousness mix--nor our spirit guides or what she calls the primary guide, or Higher Self.  We are a mix of the dark and the light, but we have been manipulated in an extreme manner by these non physical beings who feed on us and have been using us for experiments so that they too can experience physical life in a similar body matrix.  Apparently our DNA is extremely valuable, priceless in this universe,  and they know that soon the raised consciousness of the earth (new earth, ascension, fifth dimension, whatever you want to call it) will act as a seive of these "dark", or manipulative non physical energies, keeping them out and us of the light in--able to experience what every culture has defined as some future paradise, or God/Man incarnate (the Second Coming, in Christianity, for ex).  This moment is just around the corner, this birth that they call it, and the dark knows this.  They are and have been for a long time working feverishly to find their own solution to the frequency problem (their nature is at a lower frequency and they cannot embody God consciousness--instead, they embody what might be called Lucifer consciousness).  

In the process, in these days before the "birth", which some people define as 2012, some say sooner, some say in the next hundred years...whatever--in the meantime, many people are being experimented on by the dark.  Thus, abduction experiences, madness, psychic attacks...and yes, they do primarily attack those of higher vibrations or light, mainly because such people are more aware and loving spiritually and more receptive (their desire to help humanity or others often makes them prime fodder for deception).  It has been my experience that females are vulnerable in a particular way for their loving/receptive nature, and men tend to be manipulated more by their ego (having a Messiah complex, wanting to save the world)

I am not saying I understand or embrace every conclusion in her book, but after years of a living hell, she got through it by demanding that her guides and oversoul (so called Higher Self) and consciousness mix be of only 100 percent pure light.  She eventually got well again, and finally, healed.  She wrote another book called Earth Two and died this past year.  

She said that there is a war going on in other dimensions about this--but the situation is such that if you want to raise your vibrations and not be manipulated by the dark, you have to do a lot of house cleaning.  And part of that may be demanding a NEW oversoul, new guides, etc.  

I repeated her suggested affirmations when I asked someone for help with my own horrible experience (where I felt an entity's energy try to merge with my own, quadrant by quadrant of my body for hours).  
But I had doubts...I did not know if I wanted to give up my consciousness mix.  I have experienced negative emotions and suffering and although I have had enough and do not want to experience anymore, I did not want to disregard the wisdom, compassion that these experiences have taught me;  and yet, I knew that whatever or whoever was my guidance system was not compassionate or respectful towards me.  I began to wake up years ago and have seen things, experienced things to let me know that free will is for the most part illusion on this world right now---except for the relatively rare and fortunate few who have a mostly pure light filled oversoul and guidance mix.  

Take it for what you will.  No laying of claims, just another few points to consider.   It sort of makes for everybody's truth to be true for them, while taking into account, we may all have a different truth.  If that makes any sense.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 02, 2004, 07:23:28
thx for contribution
actually i never had guidance, well, frankly speaking, that was the orginal reason why i never ventured into astral, to met some entities claiming that they know the truth and confusing everything
another reason is that in 4 months i didn't manage(never tried :)) to develop senses to interact with them "properly"(telepathy only), there were hunches from high self exclusively, later small talks with it (should i or should i not :P), and by the time i knew that i need to talk only with it and demanded that, and always treated it as a part of myself, equal to me, in fact, almost me

no sacrificing for the others folks, i worked exclusively on myself, when i tried to help someone i got lessons from which i learned not to help someone, for they won't understand what is going on (or i won't), with few exceptions
oh, and first i worked on emotions and conditioning, not abilities, it is actually the other way round, funny how little do that
you should listen only to yourself, for you are your ultimate truth, and are equal to angels, etc, who just happen to be more aware of themselves (or they don't :P), and everything is equal to you, is, in fact, you
lecture, lol

luckily i don't have messiah syndrome, i'm concerned with my progress only, + whoever happens along, and changed ego to follow this path only (and standard ego issues are severy limiting so changed them too), there is always something in yourself to work on :)
the tension is indeed raising along with progress, corrupt them toward the light for the best and ultimate effect, they are little pests anyway :D
earth transisted into 5 D recently, so now they have harder and harder time


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on November 02, 2004, 10:21:28
Hi Kaili,
Firstly, I have to say how much I enjoyed reading your post above.

Like you I definately agree with a large portion of what you shared.  Especially the information about the war between dark and light, etc.  This I know to be correct, from my own experiences 'out there' we could say.  

And also like you I do not agree with some of what is said nor the conclusions the author reached.  Obviously what she wrote is truth from her perspective, just as our's is for ourselves.  

Perhaps she was being used to convey some Disinformation, albeit wrapped in very attractive details ?   We know this is how Disinformation works,  hooking you in with the nuggets of truth and slipping in the agenda-laden disinformation so that you experience some benefits while being waylayed through the non-effective info they slipped in to stop you getting to clarity.   Like the Zeta Project here a few months ago.

There are many beings working from the lower astral realms to waylay people in transit, people who are journeying, people in communication, etc.     And there are just as many working on up to the hierarchy/higher awareness levels.  We would be a little silly to think it must be otherwise.

The descent of Dark upon the world is happening as it should.  I also see 2012 as a Birth and not a destruction, even though I've 'seen' it will incorporate change in all levels, including massive physical events.  I only trust Sight because of my history of it being accurate.

About Perceptions.   I tend to see us like moths looking at the same light, each one has a specific view from their location, each one is slightly different to the moth next to you.  So each has a different perspective, giving them a different perception.

Some moths do get to see much more of the Light-picture, and in doing so they also see much more of the Dark that exists in these Duality levels.  

One woman has claimed these experiences, it  doesn't mean that any one else will, even if we know inside that a lot of what she wrote is part of this reality we all chose to experience.

I see what you are saying Kaili, but I see it does not apply equally to all Moths in this Light.  

Like RB, all I can say is, I am what I am and I know what I know.

Love Always.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Anonymous on November 03, 2004, 06:41:19
I think I posted something similar to this about a month ago. I didn't convey it quite as well as Tayesin did, however.

Anyway, I have learned to change the beings from within myself, as we are all connected. All I do is imagine myself as the entire Universe, find the being within myself, and change it through understanding. I believe that David Bohm's theory of the holographic universe, which is how I came up with this method, is at least partially true.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 04, 2004, 14:20:36
Quote
The descent of Dark upon the world is happening as it should. I also see 2012 as a Birth and not a destruction

No creation without destruction.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Sam on November 04, 2004, 14:54:42
Thanks for sharing your story with us Tayesin.  Also I have read all the other posts with keen interest, but I refrain from commenting since its not my battle.  I will try the techniques you mentioned when I get a chance to, and see what happens.  Again, thanks for sharing your experience, I may be a bit of a lurker around here but these kind of threads are golden opportunities to open my mind a little more.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Anonymous on November 05, 2004, 05:13:10
You can exist outside the destruction if you process your own shadow. It doesn't matter if lava pours down directly on you. Your body may be vaporized, but your soul will survive, and for me, that is a comforting thought. In the physical world, there will be destruction. That is inevitable. There is too much secrecy. Evil loves secrecy and fear. Those are two things running rampant these days all over the world. There is no stopping it. The people caught up in it think that they can actually make peace through war, but they'll get served by reality. Unfortunately, it'll kill a lot of innocent people, but what else has changed? If I live through the destruction, great, I can live on earth to see the new birth. If I die in the destruction, that's even better, because then I can go on to the afterlife. At least there, we have power over what happens to us individually.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 05, 2004, 10:37:24
Quote
Evil loves secrecy and fear

like my mind does. :lol:
Criminality against morality.

Even the spirit is envolved in destruction.
A spiritual war is much powerful, cause you get very fast a compfort feel, that you can turn to evry side being personaly involved in it.
Wars had brought much destruction and killed lot of people, but they brought
the most technical advances , for today you would hard survive without.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 09, 2004, 15:50:00
Quote from: Tayesin
Hi all,
I'm sure there are countless words out there to describe what we call the higher-self.  Over-soul, over-self, Soul, etc, etc.


Yes as Tayesin so nicely stated, our Higher Self is part of us.  The average person on Earth at present has not reached permanent fusion or union with their Higher Self.

Other names for the Higher Self are the Soul Man, the Solar Angel, the Master of the Heart.  It is truly a Solar Angel.  The Higher Self remains in deep meditation while the Lower Self is incarnate.  There it guides the Lower Self with the greatest agape love imaginable.  It feeds us with energy.  It is our protector.  Yet it will never override our free will and the path we have taken by our past choices.  When the Lower Self is in a state of chaos it cannot reach us.  When the Physical, Astral, and Concrete Mind reach a level of stillness then a small inner voice is heard.  It is that part of us that has surrender to the God consciousness, the Divine Self.  When the Lower Self has reached union and perfect stillness, then you will only see the reflection of God in that face.

Our main goal is to surrender to that Master of the Heart.  This union even in the harshest chaotic physical life one experiences the unimaginable Joy of the Soul.  Once the Higher Self has reached the Lower Self and union takes place then the goal is for complete union of Lower, Higher, and Divine.  This is an Adept, an Avatar, to be your own Master, and brings about infinite Bliss.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 09, 2004, 15:59:02
Development needs freedom and governing (both)


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 09, 2004, 20:15:11
well, as it is you, there is no surrendering
and it is not end, in any way, i can assure you of that
and it IS different from oversoul
as well as from enlightment
enlightment is percieving the world as you
merging with high self is acting as whole, no internal struggle whatsoever, and you really know what is you and what isn't
for the sake of clarity, this is not my theory, this is my experience
and bliss can be a real bi***
take care


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: jilola on November 09, 2004, 21:09:41
Dang, I was go0ing to stay away from the defence forum but here I am again.  :cry: Someone please kick me.

Anyhoo..

I think I agree with Tayesin's approach to dealing with the perceived negative, only with one slight adjustment in th epoint of view.

I don't think it's really a matter of sending or projecting love but rather reminding those entities of what the have forgotten of lost.
And to keep the record straigth, Love, here,  isn't necessarily a fluffy-and-pleasantly-pink idea but an expression of the underlying unity.
Love can tear you apart, reduce a person to tears and make the world seem like living hell. But do pay attention to the word  seem.

I still maintain that the positive/negative categorisation is arbitrary and based on a soul-separatist point of view for the lack of a better term.

2cents & L&L
Jouni


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 09, 2004, 22:36:15
Quote from: jilola
Love can tear you apart, reduce a person to tears and make the world seem like living hell.


Dear Jilola,

There are many levels of love.  What youíve described is attachment, not Selfless Agape Love. :-)

Peace & Love,
Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on November 09, 2004, 22:53:15
Quote from: jilola

I still maintain that the positive/negative categorisation is arbitrary and based on a soul-separatist point of view for the lack of a better term.


I agree Jilola.  I see it as us making value judgements about it from our little human-based perception.  Since this is the smallest part of what we are, the perception must also be the most confined.

Also,  I agree that this Love is not the fluffy kind, not the various things we call love or think it must be.  From my experience the energy I feel is unconditional love... or Big Love as I call it, and it has a liquid-gold color to it's energy.  This is the Agape love that Pmlonline wrote about

And, you are correct about not actually sending the Love to the 'negs'.  I always scan them for light and tell them what I see in them... usually there is still some light in a 'being of darkness',  and then direct gold energy from me into them.. because they have switched themselves off from being open to it from other ways..  this way is so direct they aren't able to block it.  



Pmlonline,
Your post on the higher-self was well said.  While I may not agree with every aspect of it, I think you did a brilliant job on explaining the concept.
Thanks.

Daem0n,
I've always seen Higher-Self and OverSoul as one and the same thing.  

What are the differences you have experienced ?

Tay

 :D


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 10, 2004, 00:04:09
first, it turns out that we are using the very same technique on entities, my differences is that from enlightened perspective i am them, and thus can change them in any way i want, this being pure light

well, high self has direct knowledge about this specific soul fragment, in fact it is overviewing it's evolution, and that is it's main purpose, gather experience and send it to oversoul to reprocess
it has many actvities on many levels, obviously, but it guides only one fragment

then oversoul is original creation, with it's fragments scattered across dimensions and universes as probes to deal with problems it experiences on higher level, our lives are mirroring this problems, and because  we have slow motion slow vibration here data can be analysed easily
maco and micro cosm, everything is mirroring each other, power struggles within politics down here are not that different between power struggles within divine hierarchy (as there is no ultimate balance and everything has some level of dissonance in it) etc etc

this fragment is said to be 1/100000 of the original soul, rather rough estimation, but gives idea

likewise in ascension you finally embody high self, opposed to this extension here, where we have merged, but only part of it is in ourselves, and rest extends freely because this form cannot hold it due to vibrational rate

at least this info has been confirmed by oversoul in initial contact
and still, this is not the end, that's why i love this multiverse, the horizon is always there :D


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tayesin on November 10, 2004, 00:50:37
Quote from: daem0n
first, it turns out that we are using the very same technique on entities, my differences is that from enlightened perspective i am them, and thus can change them in any way i want, this being pure light

then oversoul is original creation, with it's fragments scattered across dimensions and universes as probes ...

likewise in ascension you finally embody high self, opposed to this extension here, where we have merged, but only part of it is in ourselves, and rest extends freely because this form cannot hold it due to vibrational rate

at least this info has been confirmed by oversoul in initial contact
and still, this is not the end, that's why i love this multiverse, the horizon is always there :D


Thanks for clearing that question up.  I had seen what you call Oversoul as the inevitable extension of higher-Self..  just more aware of the more.  

Early this year I had an experience of returning to the place of my original creation as Great Soul.  I see now after reading your reply Daem0n, that this was a 'higher' aspect of Self.. higher than higher-self.  The feeling was different, the place was markedly different to anything I have experienced in the Astral and Higher-Self awareness levels.

Perhaps that was my call to climb this next High Peak of Awareness ?  Methink so.

Thanks

Tay. :D


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 10, 2004, 01:16:19
Quote from: Tayesin
Thanks for clearing that question up.  I had seen what you call Oversoul as the inevitable extension of higher-Self..  just more aware of the more.


Dear Tayesin,
Some groups define the definition of Oversoul as that higher than the Higher Self.  I believe my reference to the Divine Self is what daem0n refers to the Oversoul.  We have the Lower, Higher, and Divine Self.

Dear daem0n,
These are all just definitions which may differ from group to group / philosophy to philosophy.  When one achieves union with the Higher Self then one is guided to one or more groups.  These groups usually meet at night out of body to aid humanity and the world-- Lay brothers / sisters, Elder brothers / sisters, etc.  Initially one learns quite fast that there is no one single philosophy amongst these groups.  It is really a beautiful thing when so many Initiates of such a wide range belief systems can gather together in unison and harmony to be of service to others.  :-)


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 10, 2004, 06:50:00
heh, i transcended duality, but this helps to illustrate the point to some, doesn't it
i don't astral project, only mental

Tay
have you found some root causes of some of your conditioning there ? or have you searched for them for that matter ?
have you been searching for parts of your soul in different dimensions/universes ?

what i wanted to indicate is that we have parallel lives as soul, and solving problems on human soul fragment level doesn't really do anything except for feeling nice

also when you operate on oversoul directly you solve all problems on all levels within all that you are, and as we are mirroring aspects of it, learning life lesson and passing them to oversoul should be of utmost importance to ensure complete healing, also finding lost parts that are cut off from contact with oversoul is of primary importance

now something you won't like, living in the now means that you RISE ABOVE ego problems, and is not equal to solving them, this state just prevents them from manifesting, and, from evolutionary point of view, is waste of time
take care


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 10, 2004, 09:21:38
i disagree i don't see ego as a cut down part of something, it is able to do evrything in my view.
i gave up the over soul, soul mystery & to have a soul, i recognized it as an obsession.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 10, 2004, 09:31:26
Quote from: pmlonline
groups usually meet at night out of body to aid humanity and the world


"out of body" as in etheric, astral, mental and beyond.  The Lay brothers and sisters usually meet in the Etheric plane, which is the upper part of the physical plane.  Example, Mount Shasta.  There are numerous specific reasons for this because they work closely with humanity on earth.  The Adepts usually meet in the higher planes such as the 1st plane / world unless theyíre working closely with an Etheric center on earth.  The mental plane for example is the 5th plane in the lowest cosmic plane.  The physical plane is the 7th.

Peace & Love,
Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 10, 2004, 09:37:41
Quote from: aleshah
i disagree i don't see ego as a cut down part of something, it is able to do evrything in my view.
i gave up the over soul, soul mystery & to have a soul, i recognized it as an obsession.


Dear Aleshah,

The train of thought from you is nice.  I would agree that concentrating on the higher or divine (Oversoul) is not the point, but rather to concentrate on uplifting the lower self.  It is not the higher or divine self that needs anything.  I always enjoy seeing others working on compassion, respect, selflessness, harmlessness, and a genuine interest in helping others.  Thatís what makes me smile  :D


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 10, 2004, 10:37:18
concentrating only on higher aspects is half-truth, but concentrating on your relation with them, and merging with them, is different
and if they wouldn't need anything then why are why here ?, to learn, but wait, why  would perfect soul send down part of itself, if it's already perfect ? something is missing, and my experience confirms it
it's not cut off, but unaware, and this obscures flow of information in both ways
yes, you can train ego to do everything, but this is not efficient
i was not aware of such meetings, as i have not searched for them, thx


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 10, 2004, 10:59:08
Perfection is a relative term.  I would suggest that we are here not to perfect what is already perfected.  It is not the purpose of the lower to help the higher.  The purpose of the higher is to express its knowledge and wisdom over mortal.  The purpose of the lower is for surrender to the God consciousness within, through selfless Love and Knowledge, compassion, selflessness, harmlessness, service to others, etc.  :-)  Make sense yet?

Train the ego to do anything as in what?  Physical, astral, and mental manifestations? ... sure, I would agree.  These things are of Matter, not Spirit.  Also it depends what one means by ego.  Some groups refer to the higher self as the Ego.  Some refer to it as the lower self (physical & astral).

Peace & Love,
Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 10, 2004, 11:27:31
it is both, it is just the point how much you limit the matter and the limit how much stuff you put in one single matter.
I don't see matter as low or high.
I am of matter here.I gonna to change matter, as I see it fits me.in other words i am here to fullfill the matter of my ego aspects or to change my ego aspects.
I don't believe in a change of lower matter and some higher matter, they are the same (in change).The only matter is the change of it.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 10, 2004, 11:47:46
Dear Aleshah,

Again it depends on ones definitions.  My reference to Matter is the concrete mental plane and lower.  Higher and lower is in reference to the vibration of the plane of existence.  So the transition / death from physical to astral to mental is a change of Matter to Matter.  The transition from mental and beyond is a change from Matter to Spirit.

Peace & Love,
Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 10, 2004, 11:52:12
exactly, so  there is no higher self, over-self, but more dimensions self and even more dimensions self, which may happen to know something or not, but it is easier for people to believe that higher=better, just the opposite, today i suffered attack on oversoul level,  oh and contrary to what may someone think, soul is eternal, but not immortal (it was created after all)
of course from enlightened perspective it made me stronger, too bad that my oversoul is not enlightened, yet :), the difference is too big to transfer data sufficiently

pmonline:
ok, give selfless love and service to others, but then, if all have perfect souls, then what the f are they doing here, give love and selfless service to others who came here to give selfless service to others, it's like i am unhappy being with you, but i love you so i stay with you, the other side thinks the same and in the end we have two people in selfless love, although both of them are miserable,
doesn't make any sense, but then emotions tend to do so, so we come here out of compassion to others who came here out of compassion, but then who came here first and why ??????????????????????????????????


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 10, 2004, 12:03:01
i'm not here just to change from the help of others.I'm here just to create an artifical mental paint.Art needs no logic, often it is troubling yourself, but at end you see it is just FUN.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 10, 2004, 12:10:57
energy=matter, matter = energy=vibration, energy=void, void=energy, the difference is only in vib rate and density, so it may feel that spirit=/matter, but it is not neccessarily so


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 10, 2004, 12:16:30
Dearest daem0n,

Again, the purpose of the higher self is to express its knowledge and wisdom over mortal. Simply stated, the higher self gave birth, a child, the lower self.  In a very gentle way it is guiding the lower while at the same time it is gaining experiences by expressing its wisdom.  Have you heard the teachers of the higher planes of vibration say that they gain as much from teaching us as we gain from learning from them?  The key word is " gaining experiences by the expression of wisdom."  Perhaps by ones definition this is not perfection.  Itís all relative.

Take the example of a teacher.  The teacher is here to give.  The student is here receiver.  You could say that the lower is the receiver and the higher is the giver.  That is the way of things.

Peace & Love,
Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 10, 2004, 12:24:50
Dear promoline,


it seems you limit the purpose of the higher self to express it's wisdom.The lower self has got its wisdom on its own, as wisdom has no value without experiencing it.
Higher self is not stupid it is not wise.It's both and resonates with the quantum theory(of 2 states of information/communication).However the lowest form of experience/function/wisdom needs two matrixes/states in itself to function properly.It needs a bluprint value  and an experiencing value.
It needs two states of communication properly input  & output.This communication ways are blocked sometimes.A higher vibration means literaly, that ways are responsible for their own purposes ...as higher self it is responsible of its own purposes.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 10, 2004, 12:40:08
It just dawned on me that some might be viewing this from a "Me, Me, Me" point of view.  On earth weíre so conditioned to be receivers; i.e., "what can I gain from it?"  Initially it can seem illogical to be the giver.  But this is the transition from Matter to Spirit; i.e., from taker to giver.  The definition of "Matter" and "Spirit" is a relative term to simply note the higher and lower half of a cosmic plane.

Dear Aleshah,
I have placed no limit on the higher self.
The modern quantum theory and M theory are present earth sciences and I would suggest that they are far from truth.  You will see different earth theories over the next 40 years.

Peace & Love,
Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 10, 2004, 12:59:58
Quote
You will see different earth theories over the next 40 years.

Sure I will.But they will be in the GIVER RECEIVER matrix.

But it just confusing to playing the sucker all the time.As it is confusing to playing the giver.All theories are confusing as they goal is in the realization on the physical.
However TRUTH is just not true as it confusing to find true theories :?


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 10, 2004, 16:59:35
Quote from: aleshah
All theories are confusing as they goal is in the realization on the physical.
However TRUTH is just not true as it confusing to find true theories :?


Dear Aleshah,

Seek and ye shall find.  I used to think it was hopeless.  So many philosophies that apparently contradict each other.  But no my dear Brother!  I promise you that if you continue to search then youíll find it.  Hereís one example of many.  Itís one of the easier and first oneís you may see.  ->  A great deal of Christians speak of the eternal death for those who are not born again.  Yet Western Mysticism, many Eastern philosophies, New Age teach that the physical dies, then the Astral dies, then the concrete Mind dies.  So this is truly the death of the lower self if youíre not born again.  So what is this born again experience?  When we turn to western mysticism, the East, and even some new age we learn that these bodies are the lower self.  We learn that if union between the lower and higher was not achieved then the higher self creates another lower self and the cycle continues.  But in the case of the one whoís born again, the one whoís reached union with that part of us that has surrendered to the God consciousness, we learn that one is forever liberated from the cycles of reincarnation.  The lower self is transformed.

Peace & Love,
Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 10, 2004, 19:01:25
we learn from high self, and high self and then divine self learns from us, balance
both sides are happy, divine self solves problems and we merge with him again as new being worth more than sum of it's parts
the same would be with god, he created us and when we merge with him he'll be more, but not added or substracted from, as above so below


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: jilola on November 10, 2004, 21:03:51
The concept often dubbed Oversoul, God, Existence or Unity is indeed perfect.
It is also singular and self-contained. Thus it can only know that which is itself, from the point of view it has on itself as a singular entity. That means there is one thing it cannot know by and as itself: relationships, being other, interaction.
That is why we are in existence. We are the aspects expressed by the singular concept in order to explore the myriad ways many (not-one actually) can interact.

We are not apart from the unity, only reflected in such a way that makes it possible for us to suspend belief and play out the part of not being a part.

2cents & L&L
Jouni


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 10, 2004, 23:02:49
so, having resolved fundamental question, lets have fun


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2004, 02:00:55
daem0n--care to elaborate?
Quote
today i suffered attack on oversoul level, oh and contrary to
what may someone think, soul is eternal, but not immortal (it was created after all) of course from enlightened perspective it made me stronger, too bad that my oversoul is not enlightened, yet, the difference is too big to transfer data sufficiently


My experiences lead me to believe that Oversoul/HigherSelf/whatever_you_want_to_call_it is more like an innocent child than an adult.  Pure and uncomplicated, and thus, not wise.  We are the ones with wisdom, which can only be gained through experience, learning to creatively deal with life's challenges, or getting into a rut...and so on, over and over again.  Spirit does not "experience", we do, and contrary to popular New Age opinion, They learn from Us, as much as we learn from them.  

Or do we learn from them?  Where are they?   Most define Spirit in relation to something external--religion, miracles, ancient teachings/manuscripts, magic, etc--or if we have done all that, we define Spirit from something internal, our own transcendant experiences and gut instincts.  But even then, I have seen and experienced things that make me question the source of ALL influences, both internal and external.    

All these theories of "Higher Self" are concepts that help us get through life with some semblance of applying the rational to the unknown, and yet, I think it's safe to say there is still an awful lot that humanity does not know about who we really are, and all that influences us, seen and unseen.  Both the good and the bad.  

Oh, duality, people will say, it's all an illusion.  Perhaps it's not an illusion so much as it's amplified here in 3D because I have found disagreement among the Higher Spiritual Heirarchy as well.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 11, 2004, 11:30:16
oversoul =/high self
it may have been innocent when born, but a lot of time have passed
duality is illusion, but only for small group, but you won't convince anyone here that it is present in divine hierarchy, they don't want to take it into consideration..., oh i understand now, they do believe in something, it is impossible to penetrate such rock

body is irrelevant here, internal for you may be in another universe
we learn about our other experiences on other levels in relation with current one, however that doesn't mean that they don't have their original experiences in "higher" levels, original of their creation

question the source, so now what, chaos ?,
or disbelief in chrystian god ?, if so, right on time


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 11, 2004, 11:39:56
Quote
duality is illusion


for some illusion never end. i think duality is holding the planes.without dualiity the planes wouldn't exist.I meant planes need opposites.
 
I see chaos fictionaly as a system,  it is holding information /part of truth from this system.If this chaos exceeds some huge rates.. i think chaos
has its quality in the number of options.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 11, 2004, 12:53:17
indeed it holds the planes, if everyone was enlightened ther would be no need to maintai the, wouldn't it
chaos is what is nearest to me from systems, although only in actions, it requires beliefs too


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 11, 2004, 16:20:29
Matter is said to be the planes of illusion.  Matter being from the physical plane to the concrete mental planes.

Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 11, 2004, 17:10:18
What do you mean with 'illusion' after all.
Do you mean an eternaly changing state?Or do you mean a predefined false state?


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 11, 2004, 17:14:25
you said that transition from matter to spirit is symbolical, so choose one answer
as for illusion, i cannot describe nor define it, you can only experience it
the nearest would be quantum physics, but still poor


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 11, 2004, 17:45:36
Dear Aleshah,

Matter is a reflection of Spirit.  For example, the 3rd region within the world of thought is a reflection of the 5th region of thought.  The 5th region is of Spirit and the 3rd region is of Matter.  Spirit is where we came from and Spirit is our true nature.  The human kingdom in totality is now on the evolutionary journey.  That is, we are going back home to Spirit.


Dear daem0n,

Symbolic?  Well, all things are relative.  For example the charge of particles.  The electron is negative relative to the proton.  The neutron being neutral.  In the same respect Spirit is the positive charge as in the proton and Matter is the negative charge as in the electron.
Why not study theories that are billions of years old rather than the limited physical theories such as quantum and M theory?  Hundreds of Adepts whoíve been liberated from Matter have come back to help humanity.  Several of them have provided some very detailed information.  No you cannot use the spiritual theories to build a better physical car, but you can use them to build stronger better bodies. :-)


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 11, 2004, 17:46:13
Dearest Brothers and Sisters,

In no disrespect for you I must state that the experiences you have felt are an exact match for an undeveloped Desire body.  The Desire body is a common name for the Astral body, also called the Emotional body.  It is the body where deep emotions are created.

In the east, the undeveloped Desire body may be referred to as Ones Self Demons.  I often refer to the undeveloped Desire body as the beast within.  For a great deal of humanity, at present spiritual development, the desire body is the greatest controlling factor in our daily life.

Has anyone here heard of reverse speech?  It is well known that reverse speech contains foul language.  I am suggesting that the reverse speech comes partially from the physical brain but mostly from the Desire body.  It is a very interesting study.  If you want to speak to your Desire body, then use your windows Sound Recorder and then select the Effects -> Reverse.  Initially it will take anywhere from a few tries to possibly several hours to attune your ear to this new language.  Be warned though that if you speak to an undeveloped Desire body for too long that it will either immediately stop all communication or it will begin to rebel.  During rebellion be prepared for some foul hatred.

In short, what is termed here as the Oversoul is no doubt the undeveloped Desire body.  An attack may be oneís own Desire body during an episode of rebellion or another persons Desire body.

The Soul or Higher Self created each person.  It has no anger or evil within.  The Soul continuously feeds the Lower Self with life energy in addition to the stream of Consciousness.  If so willed, the Soul could end the Lower Selfís existence in a blink of an eye.  The Oversoul is that Spark of Divinity within the Soul.  Without it, the Soul could not exist.

I am not one for warnings.  In fact, I am strongly against trying to scare anyone.  Also I am not a Bible preacher.  I believe that all philosophies hold some amount of truth.  I am not a reader of the Holy Bible, but there is a quote within the Bible that is very true.  The Bible often refers to the Higher Self or Soul as the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost.  Matthew said in Matthew 12:31-32, "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."  Mark said in Mark 3:28-30, " Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith so ever they shall blaspheme:  But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit."  So what does eternal damnation mean?  It means that your entire Lower Self will one day die.  It is a guaranteed reincarnation, as when you die, the Higher Self will reincarnation you.  Our goal is to be liberated from the eternal reincarnation cycle.

I have my personal proof that Higher Self is the Master of the Heart.  Just please be cautious in accusing the Higher Self of attacking you.  Even more so, I would hope all would use caution in accusing the one who created the Higher Self, the Divine Self, the Oversoul.

Much Love to you,
Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 11, 2004, 17:59:43
Quote
Has anyone here heard of reverse speech? It is well known that reverse speech contains foul language. I am suggesting that the reverse speech comes partially from the physical brain but mostly from the Desire body. It is a very interesting study. If you want to speak to your Desire body, then use your windows Sound Recorder and then select the Effects -> Reverse. Initially it will take anywhere from a few tries to possibly several hours to attune your ear to this new language. Be warned though that if you speak to an undeveloped Desire body for too long that it will either immediately stop all communication or it will begin to rebel. During rebellion be prepared for some foul hatred.


Wow! It resonates deeply with my knowledge from the astral.
On physical it is normaly that linear experience of time (1st reason - 2nd cause.) Mental body try to transmit to causal body.
I guess on astral/emotional it is reversed (1st cause -2nd reason).This speaks also of an undeveloped emotional body, while causal body try to transmit to mental.



Quote
If so willed, the Soul could end the Lower Selfís existence in a blink of an eye

Quote
Just please be cautious in accusing the Higher Self of attacking you


Wow #2
 I guess it is the task of the Soul to attack/ scary the lower self to death.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 11, 2004, 18:08:00
I donít think so dear Aleshah.  The Soul is that still voice.  It never yells at you.  Nor does it command you.  It is that soft gentle guidance.  It is simply our choice to follow the light or continue an endless journey of on the wheel of life, reincarnation.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 11, 2004, 18:08:47
ok, i see misuderstanding here
i was attacked on oversoul level means that my oversoul was attacked on it's  plane of existence, and i was conscious of it
i use levels as guidelines, highself level is everything high self has access into,  human all human has access into, and oversoul all oversoul has access into
so attack may be on human sphere and won't affect high self, may be on high self level and therefore will also affect human, and may be on oversoul level and will affect all high selves, angelic, planetary, ascended masters whatnot the oversoul has created in order to learn, including humans
and all oversoul experiences has repercussion in everything below, as above so below
do not mistake oversoul with creators or source
neither attach to words

sorry but bible is yhwh (not kal) doing, and he, being false god, has no respect in my eyes, neither representatives of him, no matter how powerful and seemingly shining with love they may seem
and my soul has no aligment with him, have you asked yours ?? (not high self, divine self)


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 11, 2004, 18:17:58
Quote
i chose evolution and freedom, not surrendering and blindness

I agree with you, in my eyes yhwh and it's dark opposite part is false.
But what let you tell, that love is affected/controlled by
his representatives?yhwh maybe existed or exist as a vampire, but is already diing out.I believe that any god has any controll over 'real love' ..
..but maybe this is stupid, cause representatives claim to be in love.
How do you want experience evolution and freedom without love  in it?


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 11, 2004, 18:26:40
seemingly with love, claim to be in love, project love, but where is love ??
i edited that part because it would bring no benefit, albeit true
i accept everything as it is, not colour it with love, just as it is, and appreciate it
it is difficult to describe this state and it's implications, i'll try in due time


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 11, 2004, 18:36:37
Quote
i chose evolution and freedom, not surrendering and blindness


Perhaps a misunderstanding.  It is surrender to the light, to goodness, not to darkness.  Surrender is the opposite of fighting.  Our choice is to follow the light and surrender rather than fighting it in a stubborn child like fashion.  The Higher Self is a solar angel.  It has surrendered, yet it has more freedom than we can imagine.  It created your bodies after all.  It so happens that the High Self chooses to remain in deep meditation while we are incarnate in the flesh.  This is for our own protection otherwise there are just too many forces in nature that could and would end our life.  The High Self chooses to remain in deep meditation to gently guide us toward our eventual journey to light.  Remember, as we know, we as Personalities / Lower Self are the same being in totality as the Higher, and Divine Self .  Heck, in that regard we can truly say that we are all one, right?  :-)  Surrendering to the light is freedom.

Perhaps some have misunderstood the Bible because of its current condition.  The Bible was not written by one being.  No disrespect but it is not a reflection on your yhwh.  The present Bible has been annihilated by humanity and other dark forces.  For example, the present Bible contains 66 books.  Take that as a great sign.  Humanity chose to control the people by removing reincarnation from the Bible along with anything they did not believe in.  As a result we have Bible that is by no means a reflection of the Initiates such as Apostle Paul, Jesus the Adept, Master I AM etc.

It is not my wish to change anyoneís mind here.  If you so wish I can back off now and let you fine people carry on with your discussion.  My only will is to educate and perhaps clear up some mess and misunderstanding that such dark forces have so created on earth.

Love & Peace,
Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 11, 2004, 18:42:14
I would also note that it is the Higher Self that protects us while we project out of body.  I am not suggesting that itís like an over protective parent.  Yes it allows us to fall, to learn from our mistakes.  Has anyone ever been taken back to their body?  I would suggest that this is the Higher Self bringing us back home.  With time and experience on our belt it will allow us to tread further into more dangerous situations.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 11, 2004, 19:28:39
yes, subtle => matter, and now matter => subtle
i treat all things as relative, i made the mistake of trying to understand you through words, i am truly sorry for that
i am aware that bible is distorted, but no surrendering is required
there is no fighting, there is acceptance in me
yes, surrendering is opposite of fighting, but we need to transcend both, and not choose one
and so is acceptance, i have accepted, and i am more free that i would have imagined
now, why would you back off when things are starting to get interesting ???
also transcend equality and differentiation
there is no higher or lower, and yet it is, and both are false, and at the same time real

you know what is the funniest thing ??
that we agree from the very beginning, at least on high self level, and yet we disagree on details, speaking the same, with few crucial exceptions on percieving, so straight to the point:
distortion is present everywhere, even on soul level there are agendas using their power to further their own ends, and have no interest in people taking their own ways, thus want to maintain status quo
so only efficient way is to rely on ourselves, and don't take anything for granted, explore and demand truth, and seeing all that is
use gudaince, but be aware of it's limitations

i am now aware of one thing that makes understanding impossible, i transcended lower self, and trying to crack these concepts into words is useless
i can move further on my own for no guidance is needed, only information on techniques, and support with tasks my current mind is not able to carry out

i speak as the high self limited and filtered by the body, and ego conditionings neccessary to maintain this vehicle, still i must maintain awareness because some of this conditioning is a must, and yet in some situations can ruin everything
no more emotions, there is no ego, but reactions embeded into this body i  must retain, and sometimes fall into
i haven't recognised that you too try to crack these concepts, only in a different way
yet this has been a valuable lesson, thank you
take care

heh, only now i see that what i mean by acceptance is presented by you as surrendering
you do not hand over your free will, when you are surrendering, do you ?
the difference between us is that i know my purpose for this lifetime, and i fullfiled it and are free to act, while you know that high self knows best, and accept his will
however high self doesn't know everything, for earth problems and this human sphere it could be enough, but i go further
all is light, darkness just marks unawareness of unity


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2004, 19:30:09
Quote from: daem0n

sorry but bible is yhwh (not kal) doing, and he, being false god, has no respect in my eyes, neither representatives of him, no matter how powerful and seemingly shining with love they may seem
and my soul has no aligment with him, have you asked yours ?? (not high self, divine self)


I agree--the Bible has never resonated with me, it's been manipulated for eons by greedy individuals who want to remain in power.  It's just a collection of historical documents, most channelling, much of it contradictory, and many more documents that are much more enlightening in terms of history, magic, spirituality, etc, have been left out.  The Catholic church at it's finest.  Ever study the Middle Ages, Paul?

As far as your warnings, the New Testament defines "holy spirit" as spiritual truth.  My truth is spriritual truth as I am a spiritual being.  You too.  And yet, we will all come up with a different point of view.  Isn't life grand?


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 11, 2004, 21:30:09
ok, now something from my experience (hence true for me) which you probably never hear again

spirit/soul fragment is not required to live in 3d
all set up of bodies - astral, emotional, mental , casual/ whatever is a vehicle for the soul fragment too, allowing it to gather info on "lower" levels
however soul fragment has only one purpose on lower levels - gather experience, nothing more, nothing else (or gets you insights from time to time)
mental body is used to influence lower levels, not higher
we have energy from kundalini, etc, but this uses energy from 3d and lower planes to maintain 3d and lower planes structures
so it is possible to live as empty shell without spirit, yet maintaining all abilities concerning lower planes through astral and mental body

how i got to this:
after initial attack on my oversoul mentioned earlier i thought that i can't  nail them because my enlightment was limited to my perception
however oversoul was able to translate their multidimensional structures into 4d gateways through which i can become them, and bring them back to clarity and unity
after taking care of the assailants i caused even greater disturbance which resulted in counter attack, and my brain was unable to maintain flow of information, and was barely able only through simplyfying carried out by oversoul earlier
so i send most of my mental body, freed from constraints of physical body, to finish things, retained enough of it to maintain telepathic contact with oversoul, and it turned out that more than mental body

so i was left with lots of free time, so i started to think

first insight:
enlightment and becoming one with the world is achieved by finally disidentifying soul fragment with the vehicles, however mental body is required to effectively experience things in 3d, so you are one with things your mental body is able to take shape of (hence traning in becoming enlightened "deeper" is training of the mental body only (+transforming conditioning of the body, well, lower ones, so this is useless too), and waste of time - congratulations for monks), i, as untrained, can take shape of the room i'm in, the building but with less and less details due to ability of mental body and brain to control output of data)
simple, isn't it

second insight:
where is my soul fragment, merged with high self, if i send only mental body i should be able to intereact with it through what was left of it
nope, i send my soul fragment, merged with my high self, along with mental body, because it was required to manipulate assailants on higher levels
so what was left was an empty shell, no soul whatsover, and yet i lived, physical astral and some of the mental, no insights, no abilities, well, perfect regular human (now i know that i could just send higher sheath, leaving more abilities to ego)

and it felt good, because before enlighment i transformed my ego for higher purposes (mainly removing limitations - beliefs, emotions, etc), only lack of information i usually get was disturbing a bit
but the best thing was that i can merge all that i am, after accessing all of me in all dimensions, and after that send it my soul fragment for complete merge, without dying as transformed ego that i here am, not that i fear death, but enjoy being here
also in ascension, i understood that the form is elevated to hold soul, but it is not required to contain it, or rather develops subtler bodies
 to interact on more planes, each body for each plane, and yet they are just sheats that are removed as we get back to the source, but still containing info, operating on higher planes brings effects on all planes below them, but lower ones cannot do anything to them because they lack the bodies to interact with them
as above so below, heh, now i think that i understand more of it
take care
oh, i just realised that i sound like oazaki, well, i don't mind, at all ...
one last thing: my oversoul claims to become enlightened in the process, so all is set in motion and nothing can change it, total liberation, although not of me, as transformed ego, and my abilities may be dim, awareness limited, it doesn't matter at all


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 11, 2004, 23:15:19
Kaili,
no Iíve never studied middle ages that much.  Can you give us a glimpse?

DaemOn,
It is interesting how we all can share such unique points of view.  It seems as though weíre all seeing this vast object, each person with a different point of view at a different angle, etc.  Yes, some people are standing far away from the object so they can give us an idea of the object in totality, but they lose detail.  Some are very close and give us details that seem so unique and different, yet they may miss the object in totality.  :-)  Just a thought.

I believe you are correct about self sustained energy.  For example a zombie is a physical without a soul.  Many hauntings are caused by empty astral shells.  Although as far as the mind is concern, there is a stream of energy called the antahkarana.  This thread, the antahkarana, is consciousness and intelligence.  Without it the lower self would be asleep / zombie.  Also there is another thread of energy called the sutratma.  The sutratma is the direct stream of life.  It is the stream of living energy.  The antahkarana thread has existed from the very beginning of time and links each person with his or her monadic source.

Also I think itís important to realize that when one is at a Soul level then there is no "Me, Me, Me."  That is, the Soul is more concerned about the group rather than one individual.  It exists the be of service and not what it can gain.  There is a nice balance between helping others and self growth.  The Soul contains all information about all 7 planes within each 7 cosmic realms.  It exists outside of time and space so there is no need to travel to such a place and learn something.  What it needs from itself, the lower self, is Soul growth by the expression of itís wisdom.
That being said, I think it is wise to reach union with our higher aspect for the betterment of everyone.

Surrender can sound like a scary thing if one has no idea what it is surrendering to and then what happens.  The higher self has no will to posses us.  The whole idea is to link the lower with the higher and then with the divine.  If we have fear for the higher then there can be no surrender.  Surrender is about trust.  Trusting that our higher and divine nature is nearly infinitely intelligent relative to the lower self.  This creates a wonderful and powerful unit which can then shine with unimaginable brilliance.  It is the lower self via free will that focuses the light on the lower worlds.  Each level or aspect is a conduit for the higher.  Even the divine is a conduit for collective consciousness.  Surrender means it is an honor to do the will of God.  Itís not being a puppet.  We have free will yet we chose to live and experience our life by doing Gods will.  The higher self gives complete trust in the lower aspect to perform need tasks.  For example, I was once led to a mountain in Malibu beach to put out a fire caused by a cigarette.  When I arrived, I saw the line of ashes that was a cigarette and the dry shrubs were smoking like crazy.  The point is that I chose to listen to the higher self.  It was an honor and a great experience.  I was not a puppet and just as much in control of my life as ever.  But I chose to be a conduit and listen to my teacher, my higher self.  If it were not for the higher self then there most likely would have been another great Malibu fire.  The last Malibu fires destroyed countless homes and took lives.

So each unit, lower, higher, and divine is just as important.  The lower is just as important.  It is a vital vessel in itís own world.  It has nothing to do with capturing the lower self for its own pleasure, etc.  Remember the lower self is part of the higher self.  There is no malicious desire to hurt itself.  It is beyond self pleasure.  The Joy of the Soul comes from surrender to the Divine, from being of service to God, to helping the group.  Each aspect or level is a beautiful conduit for the next higher level.
When one enters the state of the higher self they realize there is no separateness.  They lose this "Me, Me, Me" stuff and have an inner will to help others.  At the divine level they become one with all things.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 11, 2004, 23:56:11
Ok guys you have been attacked by negs and responded with love.
I had all to often this kind of attacks.But the hugest attack I've got, as i was travelling with the local bus, there was sitting a girl.Her appearance was naturally(girlie like, long blonde hair)
but her eyes were dark, very dark. She looked at me and i felt to this present moment a very strong force.I don't even know if this was kind of attack, but it felt like
uncoditional love after all.So what you do if this attack is uncoditional love?I tried to send it back again (telepathically,of course) and there was a strong repercussion, other love memories, kind of pictures arised and it felt like I was reading trough the
whole memory of this love being.Maybe she just sucked or destoyed my energy, but it felt awesome!
whole

Hooks are placed mostly in the back? of the chakras.However my mental body i made so strong, it actually cracks down all....


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 12, 2004, 07:38:01
i feel that these threads of energy have nothing to do with soul, only subtler bodies


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 12, 2004, 09:48:59
Contemplations are helping me and 're clearing/compress out the mind in multiple areas.
There were some passages, were i've got some more xp fragments needed to be cleared, being pure and thread/rule at  higher vibrations.
I remembered, that in the past exactly in the same place this 'love' - attack happened i was going for a walk and tought about a person i loved very strong.
Maybe this toughts were saved in the energy of this place.
Somehow has this *attack*-girl succeed in recalling this information, because  she maybe recalled all present energies at this place.As my 'oversoul' fragment noticed that it send me a message,and i backfired....and collected/copied xp soul fragments of this girl.It is very raw of describing it all in words.

@pmlonline i have some raw questions for you i hope you are informed, if not it's also ok.. i go to find more stuff about, it will just take more time.  :)
here they are:

How i can recognize if the emotional body is undeveloped or developed?
What happens if  duality of the lower forms  is transcended , are they after that not low anymore?
Do you use reverse silenced tought/words communicate  to the emotional body regularly?
How do you use it(examples?) , is this another threatise for suggestions or hypnosis?
I heard of similar psychic weapons from the us military by the use of silenced words broadcast in (irak?) under the treshold of the brain for propaganda...(non-lethal weapons) :?

@daemo0n. you maybe noticed here i used the word 'oversoul'
it sounds for me better, too :
light warrior,surrenderer,above.messenger,mega mind...the middle,


Let me take out family  of all  the lower vehicles
i begin:

physical body
pain body (pain shield)
astral body
sound body
energy/etheric body (energy shield)
mental  body
light body (activated merkaba/light shield)
spiritual/causal body
akashah body (akashah shield)


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 12, 2004, 15:42:19
Dear brothers and sisters,

What many have experienced IMHO is wonderful and not to be compared to any higher vibrational experiences.  A great deal of people prefer to journey on their own accord rather than accept any significant help from those whoíve already treaded the path to liberation.  Iím sure they accept some help to a certain degree.  Adepts & Initiates who have already treaded this path do indeed understand that each individual must take their own unique path.  That each person goes through a unique experience and requires different advice.  Although the Adepts and Initiates in their state of being have great sight and know where each individual stands just as any school teacher on earth can help just about any student.  Any spiritual liberated teacher on earth can surely offer immense help to any disciple.  It is simply a matter of choice.

Now the question arises, are we ready for such help.  It depends on the spiritual level or evolution of that teacher for Adepts rarely take on students that are not already a 3rd degree initiate.  3rd degree initiate by my definition is simply someone that has mastered the three lower planes; Physical (which includes the Etheric) body, the Astral / Desire body, and the mental unit; i.e., a liberated person.  The Adepts are usually more concerned with the entire planet as a whole rather than one individual.  There are plenty of Initiates that offer help but it takes time and effort from a Disciple to attack them.  Key word, *attrack.*  So what attracts them as you well know is light.  Many of them seek new disciples who are already shining brightly.  They typically look for dedicated students.  Students whoís Love Chakra is beaming, who are selfless, willing to trust and listen, willing to learn.

So we might ask what about the others who are yet not ready for a high teacher.  I would say that they continue to study, learn, practice, and try to find one of the group teachers.  I refer to a group teacher as one whoís offered their teachings through books such as Max Heindel, Master DK via Alice Bailey, etc.  Although books are not specific to each student.  So the student must still tread the path alone until they attract their individual Soul teacher.
 
This not to belittle books by no means.  Learning how the universe and all things work in detail has great benefits.  I strongly believe that those who chose to not put forth the effort and educate themselves are the ones who want to take the scenic route.  Those who study the map and what to expect are the ones who take the short route.  Itís our choice.

Those who take the scenic route and wish to wing it should not get too crazy though.  We must remember our history.  That during each great period there is judgment day.  What is judgment day?  Most great spiritual books speak of this, even the Bible.  But again the Bible is nearly impossible to grasp a clear picture due to language differences and other distortions.  Iíll say that judgment day is very near and the 1000 year Peace Period is expect to *slowly begin* and on schedule for approximately the mid 2020ís -- 2024 to 2027.  The Peace Period is self-explanatory.  It is a period when peace rules.  This means that a great deal of souls are not allowed to reincarnate on this planet because they are either too aggressive, ect.  They will have their chance again, and again, and again until they finally get it.

So what does history tell us.  Looking back at the last great judgment day via the mental akashic records one will see that the Anthropoid Apes were part of the Human Kingdom.  They were held back because they were not ready, mostly due to the abuse of the sex force.  Lets look even farther back to billions of years when our present human kingdom was in the animalistic state.  This is when we were considered the animal kingdom, and the animal kingdom was then considered the planet kingdom, etc.  Back then the Angelic kingdom was considered the human kingdom.  Now this does not imply that Angels incarnated in the flesh.  This is not true.  This was during the moon period and the earth was an Etheric planet, not a physical planet.  So the Angelic kingdom is master of the Etheric plane just as the Archangel Kingdom is master of the Astral plane.  The human kingdom will one day be the masters of the Physical plane when we fully ascend.  And one day the animal kingdom will be master of an even denser plane than Earth.

Remember that soon the Earth will enter into a region of space that will increase the Earths vibrational state and there the Earth will become an Etheric planet and what is now the Etheric planet earth will become an Astral planet, etc.  And one day the pillars of light through an evolutionary creation process will create another Earth that will be denser even yet and there the Animal Kingdom will reign and will become the masters of that new denser planet.  This is the spiral process where everything repeats but each pass is always different.

Anyhow, history will show that during the moon period there was a great judgment day.  And those who were held back are now what are called the fallen angels.  They are a nuisance to humanity just as the Anthropoid Apes will become the next nuisance to the animal kingdom during the next period.

The point beyond the history lesson is we should be careful and not get too crazy on our own.  We donít want to be mislead by Ones Own Self Demons too much and end up like the Anthropoid Apes or the luciferian fallen angels.  Ones own self demons may sound unusual to most but between the undeveloped Desire body and Mental bodies itís a war for the Disciple.  Mental bodies come from the mental unit and can be extremely powerful.  For example, people should be very careful what they think and visualize while having sex.  Via our energy at that moment the thought can materialize in other realms.

Just a thought.  Just my 2 cents. :-)

Love & Peace,
Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 12, 2004, 16:52:21
Dear Aleshah,

Thatís an interesting list of bodies youíve listed there.  You might want to take a look at this diagram:
http://www.rosicrucian.com/images/rccen005.gif

It is our goal to develop all bodies.  For the lower self this would include of course the Physical, the Etheric, Desire / Astral, and the Mind / Mental Unit.  As far as know the development of the Desire body ... you could try the reverse speech.  Thatís the closest way of doing it scientifically.  If it cusses you out then itís probably not developed at all.  If itís of a more positive nature than it would be more developed.  If itís like an angel than Congrats to you!!!
We all have a good idea how to build up the physical body.  By eating healthy and sufficient exercise.  Direct Sun helps the vital body, which is part of the lower physical body.  One builds up a strong Desire body by becoming master of your emotions; highest desires and emotions.  Negative emotions destroy the Desire body.  For info on this you can read chapter III of the Cosmo-Conception.  It will tell you how to develop all nine bodies including the Mind.
http://www.rosicrucian.com/rcc/rcceng03.htm

I have not used reverse speech for long time.  Way back then I tried it.  It was easy for me to get clear sentences from my Desire body.  This might not occur as often for other people though and may take more time.  For me there was a clear response to every question I asked the Desire body.  When it didnít get what it wanted, it began to rebel and used foul language.  Then all of a sudden it stopped responding completely.  I did this for a friend over the phone and he freaked out.  I think he became scared that his reverse speech would reveal hidden secrets to me, lol.  After two reverse speeches he became angry at them and wanted nothing to do with them.

It is interesting to note that studies on reverse speech suggest that there is communication between people on a daily basis in reverse.  Itís like another personís inside of us and they talk to each other.  Also studies show that reverse speech can give predictions of which some have come true.  The Desire body is very powerful and nothing to be taken lightly.  Are you familiar with David John Oates?  Heís one of the leaders in this industry.
http://www.reversespeech.com
http://www.reversespeech.com/revlab.htm

Here are but just a few of the more interesting reverse speeches of George W. Bush,
http://www.reversespeech.com/bush.htm

Bush appeared to be strong on the legalisation of marijuana but in reverse said "I shall deal with dope"

There is an edge to Bush, however, that surfaces in the election campaign as he talks about the murder of a black man. In reverse he says "Hide the filthy ni-g-r"

This theme continues throughout his presidency with reversals of contempt against both the Senate and Congress. In reverse he says "Senate, they're all first year losers" and "Choke the f--k-rs now", and he talks forward about the Palestinian authority in reverse "Hear our fame, this little f--k"

An ulterior motive and a possible family connection when Bush says "Rule the planet, Dad"

Bush's reversal on Saddam Hussein "We'll ban the d-ckhead"

In 2003 Bush was capturing terrorists and was determined to win and says in reverse "I will beat this silly business" and "See them in a cell" and went in with force determined to kill as many as he could in this reversal "May the devil go on ahead" and "You'll f--k 'em dead"

And finally, we are only left wondering as George Bush says forwards that he doesn't want to be a war President and then says in reverse, "Hell sickness, I wish you were master."



Do you want to hear from a Desire body that is very out of control?  Here is one O.J. Simpson reversals that says it all.  This is the original police interview with OJ Simpson recorded 24 hours after the murders. This reversal says: "I killed them. MY worst night."  And another that says: "See, my race is up" and "I'll kill again."  And yet another during that interview, "I killed 'em high. Bored with you."  Heís saying he killed them and heís now bored.  Yet another, "Killed them walking. The foul d-ckhead's involved."  And another, "I skinned. Get f--ked / I will kiss you that way."  Another, " I skinned them all."  And it goes on and on.



The Clinton Sex Scandal Reversals:
Here is the first reversal found on Clinton's lawyer, David Kendal, immediately after his testimony to the special counsel. The reversal says, "Enormous sex.", and it occurs as soon as Kendal says, The president's testimony. It is actually part of an entire phrase, "Enormous sex. They deserve with it."  Another one says " Lusty Monica / You served me enough fuss", and "F--ked the girl with a scab.",  "Make her swallow. You trash. An easy role/roll.",  "The mama in the sheet. F--k her."  "Why did I sin",  This reversal was found on Clinton during his press conference with Tony Blair, 2/6/98. He is saying forwards that he cannot comment on the Paula Jones hearings. In reverse he appears to say, "Had sex with an Oregon Madam."


Here are some Air Force Roswell Press Conference reversals:
Forwards he says, " we're confident once the report is out and digested by the public that this will be the final word on the Roswell incident..." but in reverse he said "We faked it."
Forwards he says, " ..were probably test dummies that were carried aloft by US air force high altitude balloons for high altitude research..." but reverse he says " Sell the babble."
Forward he says, " ..the first report was the GAO required report for project Mogul." But in reverse he says, "Shield the ship / I live in bullsh-t."  Forward he says " ..I don't know what they saw in 47 but I'm quite sure it probably project Mogul..."  in reverse "Curse you to beat NASA. Lying in its slice."


Peace & Love,
Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 12, 2004, 17:47:55
you don't listen, you dismiss (natural thing, btw :wink:)
maybe i should start writing in 3 person, why not ?


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 12, 2004, 18:10:08
Actually dear daem0n I listen to what 1000ís of enlightened people say.  Experiences, especially out of body, are subject to extreme self illusions until one has self mastery and 1000ís of hours out of body travel under their belt.  Additionally the bodies must be in a state of spiritual development otherwise one will experience great illusions.  Iíve read so many people who claim they traveled to another universe, but they do not realize that what theyíve experienced is a waking dream.  Not even the mental body can travel that fast.  I believe the speed of thought is several million times faster than the speed of light.  That may seem instantaneous on a solar system scale but becomes noticeable on a larger scale.  To do so one has to project far into the higher mental planes and then travel is unimaginable, but not on a universal scale.

Itís everyoneís choice to accept his or her experiences according to their interpretation.  One may think they were attacked by their Oversoul but what if in reality it was their desire body that was attacked.  With self-education one can learn and decipher what is going on.  I chose to listen to those who have already treaded this path.  Those who have already mapped the universe and the bodies.  :-)

I think this will be my last post in this thread as itís begging to become repetitive.

Take care and much Love to you!
Paul

p.s. I like your new icon daem0n


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 12, 2004, 18:31:42
sorry.. i don't understood the whole concept of reverse speech.it seems very enigmatic to me.
For expample if i say
"I fly out in the dark night".What i get?Need i some special reverse dictionary?


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 12, 2004, 22:23:52
he is aware of that, as well as self-illusions, and he is aware how others percieve his experience, and he is aware that this could have been walking dream, and yet  how another layer unfold and changed his perceptions, as well as himself, he will use this experience for even greater detachment, detachment from spiritual path
one has no ability nor senses to confirm it, nor has he need to, ultimate subjectivity allows lessons to unfold in all things, even illusions, and he won't stop searching
you still don't listen, nor read carefully, draw conclusions and filter the rest through them
he searched for something new and this picture resonated
he hopes that anyone reading this thread had good time, and stops posting too


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 12, 2004, 23:02:29
Dear daem0n,

If you were Jesus I would study every letter, every character, you wrote.  I study the words of many people that are more liberated.  My formula for spotting liberation consists of the persons history, experience, knowledge, my intuition of that person.  I have a pretty big database and Iím not about to drop it for one person whoís experiences contradict 1000ís of enlightened ones including my own experiences.  Itís not that your experiences are contradicting, but rather your interpretations of your experiences are.  But Iím not here to judge your experiences.  Just to nudge you into seeking knowledge about the universe and all things.  Many people are turned off by this because initially they see so many contradictions.  But I tell you that after awhile those contradictions fit the whole puzzle quite nicely.

I am not here at astral pulse to learn more.  I am here to help others and nothing more.  If by chance I come across an Initiate or Adept then will I listen to them?  You betcha!

Dear Aleshah,

The words from the Desire body are words of deep emotions.  It knows nothing of intellect like the mental body.  It is of a much lower vibration.  What you wrote, "I fly out in the dark night" would be very interesting.  That would be a good example of a deep emotion.  To fly / OBE into the dark and mysterious astral realms.  You can try to ask for further detail.  If it so desires then it will say more.  Remember that the undeveloped Desire body bores very easily.  Perhaps I was fortunate in that most of my reversals were clear and direct.  Most of the reversals at Davidís site are also clear.  Try again and see what happens.

Love & Peace,
Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 12, 2004, 23:26:42
he is still seeking, he will never stop, understands your methods
we don't disagree on facts, but on our interpretations of them, agreed
no contradictions whatsoever
he will check desire body more closely
now as he read his posts he sees that he has fallen into loop due to intensity of the experience, and will hopefully restore functioning in due time
take care


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 13, 2004, 08:57:40
My way is to transcend the disire body to
emotional body and to the astral body and realign  its navigating points.Another attitude is to extend the energy amount of this emotional muscles.NLP,emotional intelligence shortly: EQ.
But i still don't get the point of emotional development you mentioned.Sure it's part of some mind control, but how you develop your mind  to receive lower vibrations without realign with it?
It seems you have an undeveloped desire body:

Quote
I am not here at astral pulse to learn more
...
Quote
Remember that the undeveloped Desire body bores very easily



It is easier to pick up parts of the vehicles as to pick up the subjective points of navigation on my way...


@daem0n .
hey brother, are you probing precog on me?be careful... ;)


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 13, 2004, 15:46:03
Dearest pmlonline:
memory settled, bliss level decreased to allow normal interaction
Quote from: pmlonline

When the Lower Self has reached union and perfect stillness, then you will only see the reflection of God in that face.

actually you will see what you really are, because god is reflected in and through all things, this is a mirror, not screen and you may don't like what is reflected, why jesus was crusified ???
indeed, he who merged with high self (high self) wants to merge with divine self (oversoul) you don't surrender, you tranform yourself so that there is little difference between you except limitations of the body (survival conditioning, without fear), and then merge
Quote from: pmlonline

This is an Adept, an Avatar, to be your own Master, and brings about infinite Bliss.

when you merge with high self bliss becomes limitation, as in his case, when he started blabering because the mind surrendered to the bliss, this will be taken of (he notes the difference between being initiate and adept)
Quote from: pmlonline
When one achieves union with the Higher Self then one is guided to one or more groups.

when one achieves union with high self he explores the knowledge of high self and is able to move further on his own, or provided information through willing that is accomplished by parts of himself that he may still not be be able to be aware of, if you will to be guided by such groups then it will be so, but this is not neccessary
Quote from: pmlonline
I would agree that concentrating on the higher or Divine (Oversoul) is not the point, but rather to concentrate on uplifting the lower self.

we perfectly agree
Quote from: pmlonline
Some groups refer to the higher self as the Ego. Some refer to it as the lower self (physical & astral).

unity is not embraced from merging, but from enlightment these are 2 different things, as merging embraces wholeness, and wholeness only
Quote from: pmlonline
The High Self chooses to remain in deep meditation to gently guide us toward our eventual journey to light.

of course, this is his main purpose, and it is quite limited to maintain it's role, he meant oversoul problems as origin
Quote from: pmlonline
Remember, as we know, we as Personalities / Lower Self are the same being in totality as the Higher, and Divine Self .

yes, so there are problems originating from various levels
Quote from: pmlonline
Seek and ye shall find.(the truth)

reality/chaos eludes all valiant attempts to be cathegorised and classfied, it is apparently mind still working with all his labels, give up and transcend, the only thing grasping reality is reality itself (also known as god/source)
Quote from: pmlonline
Matter is said to be the planes of illusion.

he is rather convinced that illusions reach out to highest, with exception of god, whose illusions/mind is our reality, as there can only be one erfection
he finds it naive that if the only thing being perfect and in balance is god, one would unquestioningly believe that divine hierarchy doesn't have it's own agendas, and may play out a facade, just as in communism, when it apparently gives all equal amounts, keeping 9/10 to itself history repeats itself over and over again, experience is just the same for the most of humanity, only in different background, no teaching for majority of it, only some prophecies, and belief, all present, in guess what, yes ...divine, but no lessons taken from it, don't you find it a bit, ..., leeching, not entioning best of us eliminated in cradles by "dark forces", yes, history is a great lesson, he sees divine hierarchy more and more as communistic goverment this has nothing to do with high self, oversoul relationship care to elaborate on this one, not replying, but showing your truth
Quote from: pmlonline
Hundreds of Adepts whoíve been liberated from Matter have come back to help humanity.Several of them have provided some very detailed information.

he would gladly see it, perhaps that book of yours, he will probably read it
detailed=limited, it is only a framework, effect can be achieved without it
Quote from: pmlonline
It is surrender to the light, to goodness, not to darkness.

surrender is surrender, we are one and we are equal, yet differentiated, truly light beings encourage evolution and exploring yourself by yourself
Quote from: pmlonline
until one has self mastery

mind you, you do not have, else you wouldn't be acting in such way, he knows that one can slip as he does, too, but the amount of your armouring and self-righteusness is questioning your credibility in more subtle matters, for example social ones, apparently outside of your experience
if you don't bother to read posts how do you expect your replies  to be accurate, or on subject, for that matter, have you bothered to read them again ?, he had, to make sure he understands what are you trying to say, and what he is trying to say your knowledge is your greatest limitation, you have so much  preconceptions that you rearrange reality to fit it, he wonders if consiously, also others can pick it up quite easily, and use to their own advantage
Quote from: pmlonline
If you were Jesus I would study every letter, every character, you wrote.

that's authority all right, quite low on his scale

you know nothing about his liberation, nor background to it, you just assume from posts that don't fit your beliefs
your intuition of that person ???, or rather your preconception, based on the persons history, experience, knowledge, funny that intuition is last thing on your list
he hopes that you will work on pinpointed limitations, don't bother with his experience just because it doesn't suit your path, that was his experience suited only for him
unless you abandon belief structures and rational mind you won't ascend,
you may have great knowledge and experience and be equally blind, especially when you are here to teach, which probably extends over other areas of your life
please note that this means are taken only because of your extensive armouring, he is just a mirror
with selfless compassion and love, he

aleshah:
he is sorry he thought about you only for brief moment concerning development of lower bodies
he can suggest some lecture:
the power of now by eckhart tolle
initiation into hermetics by franz bardon http://lqairah.tripod.com/
also shamanistic programming which you should like, as well as balanced way to interact with your bodies, if you bother to read some of the articles about ku, lono and kane (sub,con,spirit)
http://www.sergeking.com/Psience/deepro.html


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 13, 2004, 16:34:00
I am not here to return the judgment dear daem0n.  I am not here to argue or cause you any unnecessary pain.  But with growth often comes pain.  You do make many claims yet there are no enlightened people who believe in what you believe.  At least not of the light.  That is fine as long as you understand that.

I have a nightly exercise that I offer you.  It is perhaps one of the most well known exercises that all sincere disciples practice.  Why?  Because it forces us to look back upon the entire day and analyze our own actions.  It is called retrospection dear daem0n.  It is something I try to practice every evening as I am not afraid to analyze in detail all my actions.

http://www.rosicrucian.com/rcc/rcceng19.htm#par88
+++++++++++
The Evening exercise, Retrospection, is of greater value than any other method in advancing the aspirant upon the path of attainment. It has such a far-reaching effect that it enables one to learn now, not only the lessons of this life, but lessons ordinarily reserved for future lives.

After going to bed at night the body should be relaxed. Then the aspirant begins to review the scenes of the day in reverse order, starting with the events of the evening, then the occurrences of the afternoon, of the forenoon, and the morning. He endeavors to picture to himself each scene as faithfully as possible--seeks to reproduce before his mind's eye all that took place in each pictured scene with the object of judging his actions, of ascertaining if his words conveyed the meaning he intended or gave a false impression, or if he overstated or understated in relating experiences to others. He reviews his moral attitude in relation to each scene. At meals, did he eat to live, or did he live to eat--to please the palate? Let him judge himself and blame where blame is due, praise where merited.

People sometimes find it difficult to remain awake till the exercise has been performed. In such cases it is permissible to sit up in bed till it is possible to follow the ordinary method.

The value of retrospection is enormous--far-reaching beyond imagination. In the first place, we perform the work of restoration of harmony consciously and in a shorter time than the desire body can do during sleep, leaving a larger portion of the night available for outside work than otherwise possible. In the second place, we live our purgatory and first heaven each night, and build into the spirit as Right Feeling the essence of the day's experience. Thus we escape purgatory after death and also save time spent in the first heaven. And last, but not least, having extracted day by day the essence of experiences which make for soul growth, and having built them into the spirit, we are actually living in an attitude of mind and developing along lines that would ordinarily have been reserved for future lives. By the faithful performance of this exercise we expunge day by day undesirable occurrences from our subconscious memory so that our sins are blotted out, our auras commence to shine with spiritual gold extracted by retrospection from the experiences of each day, and thus we attract the attention of the Teacher.

The pure shall see God, said Christ, and the Teacher will quickly open our eyes when we are fit to enter into the "Hall of Learning," the desire world, where we obtain our first experiences of conscious life without the dense body.
+++++++++++


Love & Peace,
Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 13, 2004, 17:38:14
Dear pmlonline:
i merely returned what you presented, it saddens me that you look at it this way
pain is the best teacher, and i see only lessons within it
i am also too aware of what i speak, at least in the last two posts, as dust settled, and believe me that i have my reasons
i thank you for reminding me of your retrospection, it would probably be quite useful to do it in the evening and not right after the event, it may give greater overview of my actions during the day
i do not believe, i just analyze using sources i have access too
you have your truth and i have mine, they may not resonate with each other, but they do offer opportunities to grow
i suggest to end this discussion too, it is indeed begging to become repetitive
good luck on your path, may it serve you well


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 13, 2004, 21:08:25
@daemon:

Do you embrace your mind in the way of akashic elements?
First off all the 'undeveloped' mind fly arround waters and earth,
after it passed trough fire it becomes fire-air element and after that the air element.By compression/uncoditional love it turns to the akashic-ether element.
While repetition and pain is caused by inner walls it is not a teacher, it just impress the records by itensity.

By seeking the stillness on this planet of pain and repetition we build an astral noize vortex.The quest of stillness creates ironically noize....We should look and
hear uppon our inner voice and travel with light & love, cause only our trandescence guides us to stillness, inner peace and the power for new creations.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 14, 2004, 01:21:41
right now i am embracing unconditional love lesson, starting here, up to that attack i had fire/air, now i'm too detached to claim to have fire (also note the confusion i have been in for the last couple of days), no passion at all, only will
i know that words are different things for each of us, and what i wrote can be understood in completely different way, i just want people to think for themselves, you are not meant to believe any of it, only use this mental concept for considering new possibilities

i never looked for stillness, maybe some time ago, i don't remeber now, only removal of all limitations from all that i am, and this path took me here, there is stillness, and yet there are many things happening

what i mean by pain is stimuli to grow and act, normally interpreted in good/bad matrix
repetition is used to change habits, not really transcend them, you just polish the chains


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 14, 2004, 18:55:58
Do you think positive affirmations could  remove limitations?
Or do they the typical bliss b****?

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Latiff1.html


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 14, 2004, 19:36:50
finding the cause of the limitation is the greatest tool
you may have noticed that some limitations evolve into vicious circles, like for example depression
like the questions in that article, get why where when who for each limitation
then, get the same questions for origins of your limitation
if they were caused by someone, understand him and forgive (even if he is a real bastard, it is easier when you consider his blindness, that is why it was easy for christ to forgive his oppressors, because he knew that they are blind, and it applies for all people, they have no free will, they just react, why you should consider them responsible if they can't be even responsible for themselves)

at least worked for me
it all came to not knowing myself in the end, and through my initial awakening (realising your are not only your body and mind)  i destroyed the major cause, and thus most of the circles, note that they can be self sustaining, then affirmations, thought control and observation are used to finish off remaining ones, it is lot of work, i admit
if you don't know who you are, remove all you have been taught, said by everyone, and meditate what of you appeared on it's own, and then what is more inside you
when you get to your core you may then change it through affirmations and direct actions, thought control and observation
if you have problems with craving and desires, which should dissapear in majority after initial awakening, you can start negotiating with your subconsious, trade it for bliss and peace, it should follow, for it is not stupid, only lost, it never knew that this path exists
you also have to destroy the body of pain, i see you already know about, it can be done by direct observation, whenever emotional/mental pain appears, observe it and thus cut it off from energy reserves, it will soon die off on it's own

little help - forgiveness is acknowledging irrelevance of experience to your well being, also known as letting go, taking into account that people are just puppets, it is really easy (most of them)
sry if i tell you about things you know, maybe they will be handy to someone else


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 14, 2004, 20:03:18
thx for your openess.
it knows that it is telling sometimes much,
and by its wrong doing people who reading it get stuck
on (and maybe bored of some repetition)...
What people don't understand - they simply hate.After that phase they look again and hook on it.
It thinks before it goes on travel it needs to clean its house.It telling people puppets could be a great chance to hit on bliss and it knows, that you will .It is not pleasant to be a puppet, it knows the core/cycles and other problems above...and that knowledge is definitly power with unrecognized value.


Title: hey ya
Post by: Amadeus82 on November 16, 2004, 04:35:19
deleted


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 19, 2004, 18:10:50
Quote
you also have to destroy the body of pain, i see you already know about, it can be done by direct observation, whenever emotional/mental pain appears, observe it and thus cut it off from energy reserves, it will soon die off on it's own

i have got an easier way, i just affect the core(energy matrix of the pain body)
If you have got multiple-psychic gain peaks,energy-outdrawings 'kundalini' like...
it is obvious that you have got many sub-patterns generated, retriggered, by affecting, re-calling the core, simply challenge/observe the central source and you get them down faster.
Also notice if you obseve diffrent recalls of past live memoriez.It is a trick by technology to replace your past memoriez  by weaker impressions and also a natural way of forgetting.I experience that feelings serve the link to memoriez/knowledge.Do you also some techniques or do you simply read /write books? :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Best regards, by learning energy manipulation you need not cut down somthing you can change it and use it for your best means  :)  :D


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: Tyciol on November 19, 2004, 21:25:38
I'm not sure about what affirmations do, but even if they don't leak into the subconscious to alter your mind (which is strange if you think about it) or subtly change your inner self (regarding physical affirmations), they're probably useful for remembering things.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: daem0n on November 20, 2004, 02:11:45
well, i have done it in before i was proficient with energy manipulation, and now i just will and it happens sooner or later (sooner)
right now i am ascending, and have many sub-patterns that i need to get going
i almost perfected the mind,  body is the problem, and origin of problems/patterns
thx for the trick, it already proved useful to finish off some semblence to arrogance, so my mind is clear now, as body allows
right now i am slowly connecting more and more awareness, but it is a process on it's own, overviewed by higher parts of me, and i have too many things going, so i just sleep/post/study
i have overview of my past lives, but only to deal with origins of problems, solved already, now i will gradually release trauma embeded in cells during ascension
emotions preserve the experience, and are the same during experience and in the memory


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 20, 2004, 17:37:11
If looking rude about it:

If you say the command to your SOUL to build higher energies arround in the air and taking higher-dimensional information buld in the air... it would do it, but you will notice maybe very hardly.Psychic effects of a newbee to higher energies would be a great desire to cry...cry out like out of the bliss?...
Also some buddha laughs can follow.Finally it depends on you.
It is just the reverse gate effect of the *undeveloped* emotional body to higher energies.The same is like someone experience pain, he would cry,
saying "AUU" some animal stuff (past life experience???)or even a perverse laugh.This  intonation from lower to higher. intonation just attracts awareness , it loses focus about the pain.(drug)
low vibes= pain; high vibes = no pain / well being (being on drugs)

You see, length of being in lower vibes depends on development of emotional body and
*care* about the pain.Then more pain experienced, then more it would
build natural resistance taking *care* about it.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 20, 2004, 17:42:48
Quote from: aleshah
low density= pain; high density = no pain / well being.


Dear Aleshah,

Are you suggesting that the denser planes such as the physical are less pain and more well-being than the less dense planes such as the Buddhic plane?


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 20, 2004, 17:50:48
Quote from: pmlonline
Quote from: aleshah
low density= pain; high density = no pain / well being.


Dear Aleshah,

Are you suggesting that the denser planes such as the physical are less pain and more well-being than the less dense planes such as the Buddhic plane?


Pain is created internal, not external.This has got lesser to do with planes, but your atunement/intonation to them.
By cutting down pain frequency we are speaking about lose belief in it... body construct/part of it.By switching to diffrent planes your best regards are not to lose your beliefs but to blend them off for some while...

If you ever experienced taking some short  ice-shocks to body, you also will feel raised energy level.
Pain is a  signal that says ' get out'.If during  a long ice-shock you lose this signal, you get dizzy and the cells expand faster than they should, the water content expands them to strong ...they get damaged.
If you stay on a plane to long it could happen, that you lose consciousness... who knows?No one came back and told me...


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 20, 2004, 17:54:36
Quote from: aleshah
Pain is created internal, not external.This has got lesser to do with planes, but your atunement/intonation to them.
By cutting down pain frequency we are speaking about lose belief in it... body construct/part of it


Dear Aleshah,

I was only quoting you.  I asked a question and Iím still waiting. :-)   Again Iíll quote you,
Quote from: aleshah
low density= pain; high density = no pain / well being.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 20, 2004, 18:06:59
low density = 3D,4D
high density above.
Higher densities experience / time get's faster/diffrent.The ratio of pain is blended faster in on/off, you experience still pain if you can phase your physical body to higher densities, but gets smother... if it is to high dense, to pure, to be affected/ resonate with outside attacks/ whatever...

I suppose pain is no deal in 4D anymore, only a reflex by using 3D beliefs that not suits to 4D.If you are a high dimensional traveller your attitude is to 'cut them down'/ change body structure.
By subviding/ zooming to the 3rd densitiy a sportsman who changed his body structure can run faster/longer as a normal untrained person.+ a professional knows, how to balance his energy PRODUCTION / DESTRUCTION


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 20, 2004, 18:54:32
Quote from: aleshah
low density = 3D,4D
high density above.
Higher densities experience / time get's faster/diffrent.The ratio of pain is blended faster in on/off, you experience still pain if you can phase your physical body to higher densities, but gets smother... if the body is to high dense it  is  to pure to be affected/ resonate with outside attacks/ whatever...


Now I see.  This is only a matter of misunderstanding.  You are confusing density with vibration.  Higher vibration means lower density.

This is displayed through out nature.  For example, the higher one goes in our altitude in Earths atmosphere the less dense the atmosphere becomes.  In the lower regions of our atmosphere one will find denser particles such as O2, O, N2, NO, and Ar dominate.  In even higher regions of our atmosphere one will find less dense particles such as Hydrogen and Helium.  The Hydrogen and Helium are more energetic and travel much faster than matter at the lower regions.  Yet at even higher regions one finds the Van Allen belt.  At the lower regions of the Van Allen belt one finds very light particles such as protons.  At the higher regions of the Van Allen belt one finds extremely light particles such as electrons.  These electrons are traveling at incredible speeds.

Peace & Love,
Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 20, 2004, 19:09:18
yes. i am confusing.
Confused is maybe... that each density is holding their own vibrations/frequencies and to travel there needs maybe a phasing to this frequency bands.
Quantum particles/theory tells somthing else, it tells you you can switch of something in place A affecting maybe places A,B,C,D,.... playing god.Or that you can travel from A to C without affecting/pass B. lol

While in old physics a particle has got its own vibration in new physics this particle has got a cloud(many pre-possibilities, states)

Let us build a quantum computer with the help of satan. lol


Title: Time to let this topic die a natural death, folks.
Post by: Tayesin on November 24, 2004, 05:47:55
Hi, if you read all the way through this thread, let me end it with this message.

Dis-information has returned.  The darkness lies there, behind this....

"I am not here at astral pulse to learn more".

Time to end this thread now dear people.

Love Always.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 24, 2004, 09:03:48
Embracing the qualities of the fathers.
Would do it any sense to live this life, by repeating the same faults?It will.
By embracing the fathers it would cause a failure.Embracing Dark Vader and follow the dark side.Darkness with a small light-seed in the mix.


Title: Re: Time to let this topic die a natural death, folks.
Post by: pmlonline on November 24, 2004, 12:48:26
Quote from: Tayesin
Hi, if you read all the way through this thread, let me end it with this message.
Dis-information has returned.  The darkness lies there, behind this....


Dear Tayesin,

As stated, I am here to help others.  It is called Service To Others.  I did not come here for myself.  Yes, if you may refer to that as darkness, but remember that polarity is a matter of relativity.  That is, darkness referse to Light as darkness and the Light refers to darkness as darkness.

Much Love to you dear Soul,
Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on November 24, 2004, 13:02:49
remember, help is also relative term you need also to check if someone needs your help. it is hurting angelic intelligence to offer help if someone don't need it.
Another point is... mental clarity is enough to let them in the mud(if they pretend they need help.)

By chat one automaticly shares their own mind or its phrases he uses with other minds (if the separation illusion has any sense)and building up attachments/cores >ground, earth.


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: pmlonline on November 24, 2004, 13:11:01
Quote from: aleshah
remember, help is also relative term you need also to check if someone needs your help.


Yes indeed dear aleshah.  Good point.  There is the intent, which is what I was discussing, and the end results.  If oneís intent is to be of service then that does not imply that one would refuse any growth.  I believe we are always learning and growing.

Peace & Love,
Paul


Title: Attacked by a Professionals.
Post by: aleshah on December 07, 2004, 00:17:00
maybe it is more compex
if you look not only orthodox
intent > end result
but unorthodox:
intent process > further process.
:)