The Astral Pulse

Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences => Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! => Topic started by: LotusLegs on October 19, 2004, 16:23:32



Title: Astral Projection from the Lucid Dream POV
Post by: LotusLegs on October 19, 2004, 16:23:32
I have been trying to become a more experienced APer, but I feel that I have too much doubt in the supernatural.

I want very much to believe that my spirit can leave the body, etc., etc., but I also leave a little room for doubt as well.  I believe that the supernatural is scientifically plausible, so I always take things with a pinch of salt.

The problem is that with that doubt, I may always have something keeping me from APing.  Luckily, I read a book by one Steven Laberge called Exploring The World of Lucid Dreaming.

He is very scientific.  He backs up his claims with broadly documented studies, and cites many sources which I will probably read as well.

After reading his book, I have come to make LD synonymous AP.  I know Robert the Bruce's Treatise mentions that he believes that LDing is a weak form of AP, but Steven Laberge describes what he calls the WILD (Wake Induced Lucid Dream) which is a method that sounds all too similar to Robert Bruce's projection technique.  My point: What Laberge calls LDing, The Bruce calls APing.  They are one and the same.

I could go on and on about this book, but BASICALLY what I'm trying to say is that the idea of the spirit leaving the body can be a frightening thing for many doubting APers, but there is another way of looking at it.  TRY IT OUT IF YOU HAVE THE DOUBT!

ALSO, if you have no problem with the supernatural, this is still a good read because there is so much to it.


Title: Astral Projection from the Lucid Dream POV
Post by: Parapsycho on October 19, 2004, 19:27:16
Thats an interesting idea. If something works for you than by all means, go for it!


Title: Astral Projection from the Lucid Dream POV
Post by: Sampson on October 19, 2004, 19:30:58
Hi,
I've read 'Exploring the world of lucid dreaming' too, I found the book very helpful and useful, many of the techniques described have worked for me.

Although the book is touted as 'Scientific' and from what I had read in reviews and heard I was expecting the book to be a hardened, one-sided, cold, technical viewpoint of dreams and dreaming.

I was pleasantly surprised at how often Stephen LaBerge made reference to Tibetan methods and techniques of reflection and meditation, the ‘Healing dream’ chapter was particularly good.
Although I found there was hardly any reference to OBE's or Astral projection apart from those mentioned in the case studies.

In my experience doubt wasn't such a barrier, I suppose it was more fear of the unknown, but I did have doubts lurking in the background, that was until my first RTZ projection!

After having had quite a few RTZ projections I'm in no doubt that the Spirit or Soul can leave the body, I'm also starting to believe, and have also read too, that the state we enter when we sleep and dream is within the Astral planes, we therefore visit it every night.
I think the reason many people don't recall experiences is a question of memory and how conscious or aware one was within the experience.
 
Quote
After reading his book, I have come to make LD synonymous AP. I know Robert the Bruce's Treatise mentions that he believes that LDing is a weak form of AP, but Steven Laberge describes what he calls the WILD (Wake Induced Lucid Dream) which is a method that sounds all too similar to Robert Bruce's projection technique. My point: What Laberge calls LDing, The Bruce calls APing. They are one and the same.


I believe that these phenomena are perhaps one and the same, and so perhaps are dreams too, it's the state of consciousness or awareness that make the difference .... although the RTZ projections I have feel quite detached from my dreams and lucid dreams .... this has  puzzled me quite a bit?

You are right the book is definitely worth a read, the techniques alone are worth it as are the interesting case studies.

S


Title: Astral Projection from the Lucid Dream POV
Post by: LotusLegs on October 20, 2004, 19:12:35
Good Deal!

I get the feeling that Laberge did not regard supernatural applications of "dreaming" because he is trying to protect his reputation as a scientific individual.

I think there are a few hints in his book that imply that he either believes in, or hopes for, the supernatural possibilities of lucid dreaming, (AKA Astral Projection.)
For Example:  He studied under a linage dream yogi.  He also said something along the lines of, "I hope science will some day be able to learn from (the dream yogi book)"

I think he is implying the more fantastic things that might be found in this dream yogi text.  (i.e., real-time projections. precognitive dreams, etc.)

Perhaps, for the sake of being acceptable to the scientific community, he left out these fantastic ideas entirely.  I for one believe this is could be a good thing.  If the rationalizing world were introduced to Lucid Dreaming, it would become more and more common.  This could become a foothold for the supernatural into the scientific world.