The Astral Pulse

Metaphysics => Welcome to Quantum Physics! => Topic started by: dainch on September 30, 2007, 00:23:25

Title: 0 = infinity
Post by: dainch on September 30, 2007, 00:23:25
Lately i have been coming up with some pretty off the wall yet intriguing thoughts on our universe and the laws governing it. I am nothing close to a scientist im only still in high school. First off it is agreed that math is the most purest of sciences and it is also known by everyone on these forums that everything is made of energy. So to begin i would like to propose the theory that 0 is equal to infinity. There are many ideologies that can prove this. Don't believe me? Answer this how many numbers are there between 1 and 2. Your first answer would probably be none, but there are in fact infinite numbers between 1 and 2. Also there is no such thing as being nonexistent. Everything is infinite and everything is energy. Energy cannot be destroyed once it is harnessed nor can it be created, It only exists. Therefore nonexistence (meaning 0 or nothing) is equal to infinity. It is all energy. Since nothing is not made of energy, everything from thoughts to the television is made up of energy, controlled by energy, harnesses energy, and is infinite.
Please add anything you want when you reply, any extra thoughts on this theory, or any comments. Thank You
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on September 30, 2007, 07:56:34
Look, this is gonna tinkle you off, but there is no infinity.
Infinity is just an idea.
Numbers are made by humans, so stating something as inifinite is nothing more than an idea.
Because in fact, numbers do not exist.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Awakened_Mind on September 30, 2007, 10:16:06
Well 0 is nothing and infinite is never ending. They are more opposite than equivalent.

-AM
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Mydral on September 30, 2007, 14:24:02
Uhm.... your logic is somewhat wrong.
Your trying to prove that an apple is green by saying that an orange is orange....... your arguments do not support your thesis at all, they are just random statements  :-( sorry man.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Zephyrus on September 30, 2007, 15:27:50
So, in brief, you're trying to tell us that "if something doesn't exist, it is infinite"?
Well, in a way it is, but in another way it isn't. I'd say that even speaking of something nonexisting makes it exist in a sort of way:P

I wouldn't advise you to mix your thought with mathemathical facts. Maths is very precise and conslusions like:
"There are 0 numbers between 1 and 2, but there are also infinitely many number between 1 and 2, so 0=infinity" are wrong.
It's like saying that dog is a mammal, cat is a mammal so dog=cat.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on October 01, 2007, 15:57:09
So, in brief, you're trying to tell us that "if something doesn't exist, it is infinite"?
Well, in a way it is, but in another way it isn't. I'd say that even speaking of something nonexisting makes it exist in a sort of way:P

Zephyr, this is what I was pointing at, if you speak of something nonexisting, it's just an "idea" not real.
That is why infinity is just an idea, because it can not exist.
(or it can, but I highly doubt it)
(scratch that, it can't)
(or..., nvm)
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: dainch on October 02, 2007, 00:03:41
Quote from: Sharpe on September 30, 2007, 07:56:34
Look, this is gonna tinkle you off, but there is no infinity.
Infinity is just an idea.
Numbers are made by humans, so stating something as inifinite is nothing more than an idea.
Because in fact, numbers do not exist.

if you are a member of these forums you know full well the power of the human mind and the fact that if enough mind power is directed toward an idea then that idea becomes a reality. Concepts and ideas are just as real as tangible objects except that they do not exist on the physical plan they exist on the mental plane.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: dainch on October 02, 2007, 00:12:17
Quote from: Zephyrus on September 30, 2007, 15:27:50
So, in brief, you're trying to tell us that "if something doesn't exist, it is infinite"?
Well, in a way it is, but in another way it isn't. I'd say that even speaking of something nonexisting makes it exist in a sort of way:P

I wouldn't advise you to mix your thought with mathemathical facts. Maths is very precise and conslusions like:
"There are 0 numbers between 1 and 2, but there are also infinitely many number between 1 and 2, so 0=infinity" are wrong.
It's like saying that dog is a mammal, cat is a mammal so dog=cat.

I was giving an example of the non existence of any real difference between 0 and infinity in mathematical terms. So if that was unclear let me try something else. What i am trying to say overall is that there is no such thing as non-existence there is only energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed therefore it is infinite (Energy has existed, does exist, and always will exist according to our established laws of the universe). The main reason i feel that i cannot communicate this theory to you precisely is because of language since language itself is limited in the expression of an individual. And referring to the mammal comment the analogy would be dog is energy, cat is energy so dog and cat are, in terms of energy, the same.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Awakened_Mind on October 02, 2007, 01:53:17
Well I think first we need to rise above the dualism of existence and 'nonexistence'. Our language is limited, but we can't blame it. You must use what you have to do what you can in the time that you've got.

It's becoming more important for our species to understand that everything is one. In fact it's essential for our survival. Having said that, it is also important at certain times to discriminate. If someone tells you to go and pick up their dog and you come back with a cat and say "They are both energy, who cares?" I think they'd be a little annoyed. So the understanding everything is one and discrimination between things are both necessary. Not entirely one way or the other. I think that between any dualism there is balance, that's what we should be moving toward.

-AM
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: bewarevileye on October 02, 2007, 18:18:28
Life is too short to dwell on such things, I've wasted my time wondering how it was possible for God to have no beginning and no end.  Because there is a verse in the Quran that speaks of how is everywhere and knows everything.  In my opinion, in order for God to have these attributes, he would have to be somehow connected to everything he is aware of.  So in reality there may be a connection between everything that exists, from rocks to hair to everything and cats and dogs.  I've come to the conclusion that God can't possibly have an infinite amount of energy because infinity doesn't end.  He may have a powerful and vast energy but I think he is self contained and doesn't loose energy but all that exists or whatever he creates is just an extension of himself so he isn't loosing any energy at all.  Maybe everything that exists and will ever exist is contained in a big membrane like Brian Green mentioned.

One thing is for sure, I believe behind this illusion we call physical  reality lies  realm where everything is connected.  I felt it first hand, I felt this amazing unexplaining bliss and nirvana that is hard to explain in words during this one morning when I came from running and took a cool shower and laid on my side and imagined myself on a hammock and then felt and heard a white flash bang sound in my head and I could see the whole room more real than normal living day reality I felt truly alive and I look forward to going back to that state.  I saw my arm in front of me and tried to move it but saw a phantom translucent arm move and I was confused because I forgot that I had intentions of projecting.  I was in this membrane, water like membrane of cool amazing energy, I felt myself in the membrane not seen it.  This must be what Hindu and budhist people call enlightenment.  After a few minutes in this state of indescribable bliss I woke up and can still feel the heavenly energy and rested relaxed calmed tranquility.  This wasn't the only time I experienced this, I've also experienced it on an elevator and this lady noticed something about me and smiled and kept staring at me.  That was 2003 and I don't experience it anymore.  I don't know what was special  about that year.  I didn't get injured or nothing physical happened to me so I still don't understand why that year, why did I experience this.  Was it the result of my attempts to project.???

I still can't comprehend how God doesn't have a beginning.  In order for something to be conscious of itself that consciousness and awareness must develop sometime during it's existence.  Maybe God existed as some energy that wasn't fully aware but gained aware through ions and ions and ions and ions and ions and ions of time.  Maybe evolving.  If energy just plain and simply exists without a beginning or an end.  Then why shouldn't God be the same???

I don't understand why I didn't remember that I was trying to project or that I had a strong desire to project when I experienced that amazing RTZ OBE in 2003.  I think it may have something to do with memory not being passed on to the other body my consciousness went into.  This could explain why dreams are very real when we are having them but when we wake up in present day reality we barely remember anything about the dreams.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: ismusa on October 02, 2007, 18:45:35


To me the most convincing evidence that everything is interconnected energy wise is the rule of like attracts like which I experienced painfully myself.

If a person has a negative attitude and is having a bad day there day will only get worser and worser until they become positive and get out of the negative frame of mind.
They also call it "like vibrates with like".  If we weren't connected in a deeper level of reality then karma and the evileye should not be able to affect us. 

Criminals who commit terrible crimes get what they deserve down the road in their life and they won't know why they are miserable and misfortune in their lives.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: morning_star on October 02, 2007, 23:37:59
Ignorance plays a huge factor in incomplete ideas.....  Variables should be used only be used to teach high school algebra, not to be applied to fixed laws.  Most people (like someone here) don't understand that they don't know enough to form complete, correct, and logical ideas applicable to the universe.  I see a lot of people look at things, not understand them, and automatically assume they are not important, non existant, or subject to change, when, in fact, they are the opposite.  Then they take these ideas and meld them with other philosophies that seem to come from someone who has been consuming a bit of TetraHydroCannabinol. :)  The sooner you realize you don't know or understand most things, the sooner you can sit down with a willing mind and learn the truth.  Until then, you'll just go around in circles chasing a magic dragon.

Edit:  Nevermind that Infinity does exist, Void does exist(as a conceptual word attached to a lack of substance) and ne'er the two shall meet.  In fact, that's what the war is all about, if anyone was paying attention.....You'll understand how void "exists" per say, yet remains a void when it starts to permeate physical reality as we know it.  It won't be pleasant, but we'll get through it.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: ismusa on October 03, 2007, 22:55:28
Morning Star, Just because someone talks a certain way or thinks a certain way doesn't mean they smoke weed THC.  It's their natural makeup that makes them who they are.  Somethings can't be described in words which is why the person who started this post talked the way he/she did.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: morning_star on October 04, 2007, 19:34:34
Then you did not understand what I said.  It is understandable since I tend to be cryptic due to my poetic nature.  Just think about it some more.  That's what I intended for you to do.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Novice on October 05, 2007, 08:26:24
dainch wrote:
Quoteif you are a member of these forums you know full well the power of the human mind and the fact that if enough mind power is directed toward an idea then that idea becomes a reality. Concepts and ideas are just as real as tangible objects except that they do not exist on the physical plan they exist on the mental plane

This is a common belief of AP members, however it is not a requirement. These forums are open to everyone regardless of their beliefs. So long as their posts are not derogatory or inflammatory, they can post as many diverse thoughts and ideas as they want.

These boards are specifically open for debate. so when debate comes, don't get too defensive if some disagree with you. I think disagreement is a great way to better understand things.  :wink:


morning_star wrote:
QuoteIgnorance plays a huge factor in incomplete ideas..... 

I wonder if you were addressing yourself here...  :wink:

QuoteVariables should be used only be used to teach high school algebra, not to be applied to fixed laws.  Most people (like someone here) don't understand that they don't know enough to form complete, correct, and logical ideas applicable to the universe.

Mathematics is intricately linked to fixed laws -- both physical and universal.

QuoteThe sooner you realize you don't know or understand most things, the sooner you can sit down with a willing mind and learn the truth.

And what "truth" would that be?

Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: morning_star on October 06, 2007, 00:32:19
Quote from: Novice on October 05, 2007, 08:26:24

morning_star wrote:
I wonder if you were addressing yourself here...  :wink:


No, I clearly was not. :\ It's not wise to be offended by what I say.  Mostly because I have said nothing offensive but also because it will distract you from what my words truly mean.  If you spent more time thinking about it and attempting to understand it instead of regarding it as foreign and distasteful, you would progress more rapidly, which is what I'm trying to help you do.  Don't scorn the teacher for giving students homework. Neither should you scorn the student who teaches you what he has learned from others.  These concepts are relatively simple if viewed in a positive light.  Change your perception and you can change reality.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Awakened_Mind on October 06, 2007, 02:33:03
Your words insinuate that you are wiser than the rest of us. This is of course not true because wise people do not preach their wisdom, it is clear enough in how they speak and act. Your words put you on a pedestal and lower the rest of us, like you are exposed to some privileged truth that the rest of us are not. All men are equal. This is a truth you have yet to discover, or you would talk to us as equals.

Nietzsche called it "The prejudice of the learned" The learned judge correcetly that people of all ages have believed they knew what was good and evil, praise and blameworthy. But it is a predjudice of the learned that we now know better than any other age."

You say
Quote from: morning_star on October 02, 2007, 23:37:59
The sooner you realize you don't know or understand most things, the sooner you can sit down with a willing mind and learn the truth.  Until then, you'll just go around in circles chasing a magic dragon.

Why don't you take your own advice? The world is a reflection of self. Any ignorance you see in somebody else is nothing but ignorance in yourself. So before you think you have the right to instruct me or any other on how to develop spiritually, develop yourself. Truth is seen, not spoken. It's not your words I don't understand, it's the arrogant tone they are written in.

-AM
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Novice on October 06, 2007, 08:25:39
Actually morning_star I wasn't offended in the least. I found your post condescending and misinformed, which is why I joking threw out the possibility that it could easily be directed at you.

AM made a very good, and accurate, observation: actions speak louder than words.

I think some of what you wrote is possible. I think what you've hinted that you *know* or is *true* is overstated. And before you retort that I'm simply floundering in negativity and close-mindednesss, consider that some here (and many people elsewhere) adhere to the adage: those who talk don't know; those who know don't talk. Silence sometimes speaks louder than words. And often times important points are better understand with very few words.

QuoteChange your perception and you can change reality.

Hmm...apparently you didn't notice the quote under each of my posts...   :roll:

Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: CFTraveler on October 06, 2007, 15:33:46
Quote from: dainch on September 30, 2007, 00:23:25
Lately i have been coming up with some pretty off the wall yet intriguing thoughts on our universe and the laws governing it. I am nothing close to a scientist im only still in high school. First off it is agreed that math is the most purest of sciences and it is also known by everyone on these forums that everything is made of energy. So to begin i would like to propose the theory that 0 is equal to infinity. There are many ideologies that can prove this. Don't believe me? Answer this how many numbers are there between 1 and 2. Your first answer would probably be none, but there are in fact infinite numbers between 1 and 2. Also there is no such thing as being nonexistent. Everything is infinite and everything is energy. Energy cannot be destroyed once it is harnessed nor can it be created, It only exists. Therefore nonexistence (meaning 0 or nothing) is equal to infinity. It is all energy. Since nothing is not made of energy, everything from thoughts to the television is made up of energy, controlled by energy, harnesses energy, and is infinite.
Please add anything you want when you reply, any extra thoughts on this theory, or any comments. Thank You
I like the way you think- I have always equated metaphysical ideas such as infinity with the concept of zero, and found them to match in the way I think: Infinity is neverending possibility, and zero is the total sum of karma; therefore reality=eternal, if you think of Karma as cause and effect, and not a moral law at all.
Hmm... I don't know if what I wrote was clear enough.  :?
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Old Dood on October 06, 2007, 19:40:33
Quote from: CFTraveler on October 06, 2007, 15:33:46
I like the way you think- I have always equated metaphysical ideas such as infinity with the concept of zero, and found them to match in the way I think: Infinity is neverending possibility, and zero is the total sum of karma; therefore reality=eternal, if you think of Karma as cause and effect, and not a moral law at all.
Hmm... I don't know if what I wrote was clear enough.  :?

I 'kinda got it'.  I am not being sarcastic either.  As for the Zero = Nothing part. Zero is Zero.  Nothing is Nothing. When you hear someone call out a score in a sport like 10 to 0 then you hear them say it is 10 to Nothing then that is not correct. For it is Zero...not Nothing. 

Also stating that Zero = No More Karma...then that does make total sense to me. You have reached your own apex of understanding.  Your 'Absolute Zero'.

Now I am wondering If I made any sense...haha!
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on October 07, 2007, 05:42:31
Yes, zero is nothing, it's the complete opposite of infinite.
Like binary code: 0 and 1.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: ubiquitous on October 07, 2007, 12:03:47
Clumsy,

We humans have sprouted 0 into the world by contemplating nothing we create something and (0) has done wonders for us!!!!
So its only relationship with infinity is that if all humans were wiped out would it reappear in the future? If Y then
The mathematical tools we use are remnants of a indispenable universal truth!
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: morning_star on October 07, 2007, 14:52:31
You're still wrong.  Don't let your insecurities skew your perception.  I know we are all equals.  If you felt the same way, you would not be trying to fight me. 

I know I am not perfect, but my shortcomings are of no concern to you.  I am not here to learn, I have my own teachers.  I am here to tell you what I learn from them.  If you do not wish to learn from them as I do, then you should say so and prolong your ignorance. 

There is no pedestal, just the pits people dig themselves into when they forget how to climb. I am not arrogant.  I know who I am and what I'm worth.  Although I have said that my words will not be understood unless viewed in the light, you continue to seek darkness in everything I have said.  This tells me you do not want to truly understand what I am saying, but that you wish to fight instead. 

As to that adage, I would have to say that everyone speaks and you're just going to have to learn to discern truth from lies.  Don't assume anything. 

Finally, this has gotten way off topic and has turned into a childish squabble.  I keep trying to help you, and you keep spitting in my face.  All I can say is that I can't wait until you pass on and leave behind this foolishness. 
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on October 07, 2007, 15:51:06
Just like to add:
0 (Zero), is the "idea" of nothing, just like ∞ (Infinity).
So it doesn't mean "nothing" exists, it's the idea of "nothing" which is called zero - 0.
The same as infinity, it doesn't mean infinity exists, but the idea of infinity - ∞, does.

Even the metric system doesn't exist (it is just an idea).
We have only developed mathematics to measure things.
Dawkins said that we are creatures from the middle world (not too small, not too big), the metric system can not be 100 percent exact down to the molecules, so it still remains an idea.

So to even think that infinity or nothing exist, doesn't mean it's truth (reality).

Someone mentioned that thoughts make existance, this is wrong.
You can obviously lie to yourself and others, thoughts do not make something real.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Novice on October 07, 2007, 19:23:30
QuoteI keep trying to help you, and you keep spitting in my face.  All I can say is that I can't wait until you pass on and leave behind this foolishness. 

morning_star, I'm not sure who your post was directed at, but I would suggest you calm down. The topic being debated is infinity and 0. You have one opinion on the subject. Some members agree, some disagree, and some partially agree. The purpose for these forums is to debate topics and learn from each other. 

Your 'truth' is only one of many truths. Everyone has their own version. If you took the time to read through the posts on this forum, there are countless posts (many with 'truth' in the subject line) where members believe they have found *the truth* --- others disagree with it. There is no right or wrong here, regardless of your personal beliefs. Everyone's opinions are just as valid as yours. We welcome your contribution, but not to the exclusion or belittlement of different thoughts and ideas by other members.

The "spitting in your face" as you call it, is the response you are eliciting from others not from what you are saying, but from the way you are saying it. Two totally different things.



As to the topic at hand, I can understand how 0 could represent infinity. From a mathematic point of view (and I could be wrong as its been about 20 years since college) I believe Einstein theorized that the universe was essentially circular. That if you started in one spot and walked in a straight line, at some point you would arrive back to where you began. Numerically, I agree that 0 represents nothing. However 0 is also a circle. No beginning and no end => endless => infinite. Now, I'm not sure I agree that endless = infinite, but I could somewhat understand that.

So I think one possible way to look at is 0 = nothing and 0 is a circle. A circle has no beginning and no end. And the numerical concept of 0 = nothing could represent the return to the beginning. We begin as nothing, are born, grow, die, return to nothing, then are born again. A cycle. In that respect, I suppose nothing could be infinite, but I don't think this concept was mentioned yet.

Not saying I agree with this, just throwing it out as a possibility to consider!
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Awakened_Mind on October 08, 2007, 01:35:08
Quote from: morning_star on October 07, 2007, 14:52:31
All I can say is that I can't wait until you pass on and leave behind this foolishness. 

Your teachers must be incredible light workers.

-AM
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on October 08, 2007, 03:13:09
I can't see 0 as a circle.
There is no beginning and there is no end with 0, it's pure nothing.
Infinite is also not a circle but it does have a beginning, it just doesn't have an end.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: wow_nonamesleft on October 08, 2007, 11:59:35
Infinite would be more like a spiral.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on October 08, 2007, 13:31:01
Yeah exactly.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on October 08, 2007, 13:34:45
Sorry for the double post, but that spiral is a good idea, it should be used for the inifinity symbol instead of ∞.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: CFTraveler on October 10, 2007, 16:26:47
It seems to me that for a spiral to symbolize infinity it would have to end in a circle, wouldn't it?  If it has an ending it's not infinite.  So how do you tell the difference from the beginning to the end? (whoops, no end).  Do you see where I'm going with this?  What's the diff between going and coming back? Time? 
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: ismusa on October 10, 2007, 18:08:25
Let's sum this whole thing up so it doesn't keep bothering us. 

Infinity has no beginning or no end.  It just plain and simply is.  We don't have faculties of understanding things beyond us because we are limited to few senses.  All things will perish and come to an end except our spirits and energy and God.

Something tells me that we are in something similar to the Matrix and that the true reality lies outside of all of this.  If God can say "be" and something will come into existence.  Then it means his thoughts affect reality.  He must have different properties than his creation in order for him to have enough energy to create something out of nothing.  things coming out of nothing has already been proven by quantum physics.  Tunneling and non-locality etc.  particles coming into and out of existence all the time.  Empty space is really not empty.

The simple conclusion to this big discussion is that trying to understand infinity and what is beyond us is like a dog trying to understand how machines work, it is beyond our understanding and we should not dwell into it because our life is too short.  So we should go and enjoy our short lives until we leave  this existence and finally learn everything.  There's going to be a new life ahead, we will feel new and reborn.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Awakened_Mind on October 11, 2007, 00:32:47
I think the idea of infinite should remain as a circle or that horizontal 8. A spiral seems a little complex to represent in text. Not too mention since the invention of the spring most people see a spiral as having a beginning and an end.

-AM
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on October 11, 2007, 02:33:37
Yeah but a spiral has no end, that's the beauty of it.
An 8 or a circle can have an end.
Spiral just keeps on going, it represents infinity.
However, a line also represents infinity, it also has no end.
But an horizontal 8 has all the lines in-view.
The spiral and the line can stretch out beyond existence.

But I still believe infinity is just an idea, it can never exist.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on October 11, 2007, 02:34:34
Sorry for the double post, but I'd like to add something.
Everything that has time or movement needs an end, it can't be infinite.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Stookie on October 11, 2007, 11:31:45
The definition of a line is 2 points conntected. This would be a start and end. A circle has an infinite number of points - no beginning or end. A spiral, while it somewhat fits, would really only work if the top of the spiral connected to the bottom of the spiral, thereby making it a circle. If a line never truly stopped in a finite universe, it's because it "circled" back around into itself. The infinite symbol is just a twisted circle.

So yes, 0 could represent infinity.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: CFTraveler on October 11, 2007, 16:41:04
Thank you, Stookie, that's what I was trying to say.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: wow_nonamesleft on October 11, 2007, 17:08:18
I'm pretty sure a line goes on forever actually, your thinking of a line segment, but even a line segment can be infinite in a way. for example:

This is a line seg. ( 1 inch)
                           0  . ____.   1.0
                                  ^
I decide to pick the point at 1/3 of the way thru
          ~
that's 0.3, 3's repeat forever.

While a line segment has a definate begining and end, the points you can pick inside it is infinate, wether its 1 or 0.1248460346063346990531, but ofcourse its limited between 0 to 1.0, yet its still infinite between those numbers.

Now bend the line segment into a circle :  __ --->  U --->  O  :lol:

The circle is still 1 inch, but you can now pick your starting point.
                                                                   
By starting at point 0 you will end at point 0(or 1.0 same thing), because the begining is the end.

So what happens when you continue to walk the circle past the 'end' point?
Do you end up in 1.1 or 0.1?
if its 0.1, its still like a line segment, you made no progress after 1.0, even though you continue in the circle nothing new happens, you have a limit of 0 thru 1. What about the missing numbers between 1.0 to 0? It cant go .9 .8 .7, if your already at the begining!

If it continues on to 1.1, then any point of the circle is any number like 10, 100 or 10,000(in the same spot), but how can that be even possible? The only way that could happen if it was some kind of spiral or helix.

So, I dont see how a circle could properly represent infinite.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on October 11, 2007, 18:05:50
Quote from: Stookie on October 11, 2007, 11:31:45
The definition of a line is 2 points conntected. This would be a start and end. A circle has an infinite number of points - no beginning or end. A spiral, while it somewhat fits, would really only work if the top of the spiral connected to the bottom of the spiral, thereby making it a circle. If a line never truly stopped in a finite universe, it's because it "circled" back around into itself. The infinite symbol is just a twisted circle.

So yes, 0 could represent infinity.

No, this is so wrong, it's the exact opposite.
A line isn't 2 points connected: (from wikipedia):A line can be described as an ideal zero-width, infinitely long, perfectly straight curve (the term curve in mathematics includes "straight curves") containing an infinite number of points. In Euclidean geometry, exactly one line can be found that passes through any two points. The line provides the shortest connection between the points.

It goes THROUGH 2 points, it doesn't stop or begin at either.

A circle doesn't have anything to do with infinity, it is just a curved line that has a beginning and an end.
Every line is in-view, nothing is left out.
But in spirals and line's, there is more beyond, so it's infinite. (theoreticly)
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Novice on October 12, 2007, 08:35:30
I personally don't like wikipedia -- you never know the source/accuracy of the information being posted.

Regardless, you are correct in that a straight line, by definition, runs through two points and can be considered infinite. However, I think it is commonly considered finite -- a perception that is not necessarily correct -- because it has a beginning and an end. The line may go on continuously, but there is always a starting point for one end of the line and the end point. Thus two points are the beginning and end of the line. So many perceive the fact that it has these two points, it must be finite.

A circle is considered infinite because it is completely round. You may be able to see all of the circle, but where does it start and end? Look at this:  0   Can you point to a specific spot in that zero and tell where it starts and ends? I can't. It is seemless. If you were to trace it, you would continue to go "in circles." That's where the saying came from, in fact. It is indicitive of having no end in sight -- hence infinite. Whereas when someone uses the term "make a straight line for..." whetever, it implies a limit, a direct path to a specific location -- not infinite.

This is the reason that a circle is typically used to represent infinity and not a line.

Although I have seen a spiral represented as infinity as well. In order for the spiral to make sense for me, personally, it would need to double back on it self and essentially be an elongated, spiraling circle.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Stookie on October 12, 2007, 11:19:03
I think this is really just symbolism. Whatever works for one person...
When people get married they say the rings are used because they are a "circle", having no beginning and no end, representing an eternal bond. I found this:
QuoteThe circle is a symbol that best represents connectedness, since all regular polygons are embraced by it. Since it is without beginning or end it also represents infinity. It is simplest figure and therefore finds representation in numerous cultures. In body ornaments it often represents fidelity, eternal love and commitment.
Here: http://nexusnovel.wordpress.com/2006/08/24/connectedness-the-circle-in-wedding-ring-steel-bracelet-kara/

But looking at it mathematically, I believe fractals and the Mandelbrot Set represent infinity better than anything else. When I get married we're going to wear T-shirts with multi-colored fractals on the front.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on October 12, 2007, 13:43:13
Circle can't be infinite, because it can be calculated by using Pi(perimiter of 0.5 radius).
But things like paraboles or lines or spirals, we can only know where they cut in the x or y axis.
A circle is the only thing where you see the finity.
You only need to know the position, the radius and the center.
A line for that instance, goes through till infinity.
Didn't you learn all this in mathematics?
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Novice on October 12, 2007, 16:00:12
QuoteDidn't you learn all this in mathematics?

Yes.

Didn't you read our posts?


I explained that within the confines of mathematics, your definition/explaination is correct.

We are not attempting to debate mathematic principals. In fact, we've conceded them in previous posts.

However, what we are suggesting is that an individual's perception of infinity is typically represented by the circle because of its shape -- regardless of how mathematics defines the shape. It's about symbolic interpretation of an object, not mathematical formulas. In this, we feel that the circle can be explained to represent infinity.



Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on October 12, 2007, 16:55:20
So I'm right, thank you.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Awakened_Mind on October 13, 2007, 01:29:33
Was the disucssion initially about whether 0 can represent infinity, or whether nothingness and infinite were the same thing?

-AM
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Novice on October 13, 2007, 08:02:12
Well, the subject is 0=infinity. So I was discussing that.

I don't remember the first post, so maybe it strayed from the subject line?
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: malganis on October 13, 2007, 08:30:34
1/0 = infinity
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on October 13, 2007, 08:33:42
I didn't understand that last one.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Awakened_Mind on October 13, 2007, 13:00:54
You can't divide a number by zero. It doesn't equal a number that goes on forever, it just simply cannot be done.

-AM
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: malganis on October 13, 2007, 15:40:39
lim 1/a = infinity when a -> 0. Now it's more mathematicaly correct :)
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: morning_star on October 15, 2007, 20:19:46
the nature of inifinity cannot truly be understand by human minds born in a world with a beginning and an end to everything. It's nothing and everything at the same time.  It's ALL.  That's the only part of its nature we can understand.  :)
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on October 16, 2007, 19:30:44
Can you please add "I think" to your posts, morningstar?

I think it can be understood, because there is nothing to understand.
I belive infinity doesn't exist, it's just an idea.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: wow_nonamesleft on October 17, 2007, 09:49:09
Quote from: dainch on September 30, 2007, 00:23:25
Lately i have been coming up with some pretty off the wall yet intriguing thoughts on our universe and the laws governing it. I am nothing close to a scientist im only still in high school. First off it is agreed that math is the most purest of sciences and it is also known by everyone on these forums that everything is made of energy. So to begin i would like to propose the theory that 0 is equal to infinity. There are many ideologies that can prove this. Don't believe me? Answer this how many numbers are there between 1 and 2. Your first answer would probably be none, but there are in fact infinite numbers between 1 and 2. Also there is no such thing as being nonexistent. Everything is infinite and everything is energy. Energy cannot be destroyed once it is harnessed nor can it be created, It only exists. Therefore nonexistence (meaning 0 or nothing) is equal to infinity. It is all energy. Since nothing is not made of energy, everything from thoughts to the television is made up of energy, controlled by energy, harnesses energy, and is infinite.
Please add anything you want when you reply, any extra thoughts on this theory, or any comments. Thank You

Guys we are at the begining again. We just made a circle  :lol:, this thread shall go on for infinite.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: catmeow on October 17, 2007, 19:11:17
Quote from: Sharpe
Can you please add "I think" to your posts, morningstar?

I think it can be understood, because there is nothing to understand.
I belive infinity doesn't exist, it's just an idea.
Pot, kettle, black etc. Sharpe, this is exactly what you do. Can you really not see it?
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on October 18, 2007, 00:03:10
Quote from: catmeow on October 17, 2007, 19:11:17
Pot, kettle, black etc. Sharpe, this is exactly what you do. Can you really not see it?

Your opionion. (not true)
I try to use it as much as possible.
Even though you made the comment, take a look at how you post it.
It's just like... you THINK it's a fact (not true), but you didn't even say that it was your opinion, fascinating!
Truly amazing how hypocritical people are these days!
The fact is that i use "I believe" or "I think" (giving my opinion, instead of making up facts) more often than you.
SO! My good sir, I THINK you have no authority to give facts that are untrue.
Espescially when you are the one who should be blamed for something you are blaming me for!
I hope this post ticked you off just as much as yours did me. :-)

But seriously: Add "I think", "I believe" to your posts, catmeow.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Awakened_Mind on October 18, 2007, 02:30:52
The fact that we are typing it is really saying 'it's my oppinion', 'I think' anyway. It's fair enough to say we all speak subjectively. We shouldn't have to say 'I think', it's should be understood that it's our perspective to begin with.

-AM
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: catmeow on October 18, 2007, 05:32:43
Hi Sharpe

My critique was meant to (attempt) to draw to your attention your own hypocrisy.  I failed.

I never claimed to be innocent of the criticism you made of morning_star, and I never claimed that you were correct to criticize him.  Therefore I cannot be accused of hypocrisy.

To re-iterate; I was trying to point out YOUR own hypocrisy, of which I "believe" you are highly guilty.

I am not in the least p'd off by your post.  Because your argument is incorrect for the reasons I just gave.

Quote from: Awakend_Mind
The fact that we are typing it is really saying 'it's my oppinion', 'I think' anyway. It's fair enough to say we all speak subjectively. We shouldn't have to say 'I think', it's should be understood that it's our perspective to begin with.
AM, Does this mean you think Sharpe was wrong to criticise morning_star?

I largely agree with your post. My position is that in any discussion "I think" is implied, unless the poster becomes too authoritarian or arrogant in his manner of expression, because this then implies disrespect for others' opinions.  And the point at which a poster becomes "authoritarian" and "ignorant" of others' opinions is a subjective thing so it's difficult to guage. 

Respect is is the most important thing. In general, in any discussion to constantly add "I think" "I believe" and "IMHO" detracts from the thread of any argument, and becomes irksome to read. However, to be constantly "authoritarian" is equally irksome. Therefore "I believe" etc should be used occasionally as a matter of courtesy, and to impart "respect" towards others' opinions.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on October 18, 2007, 09:08:24
I wrote a 500 word post on why you were wrong.
But I'm not going to play your game anymore.
You win, I just don't want to discuss this any further.
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Awakened_Mind on October 18, 2007, 12:37:29
Quote from: catmeow on October 18, 2007, 05:32:43
AM, Does this mean you think Sharpe was wrong to criticise morning_star?

I don't really see the point in stating the obvious. Isn't it common sense what someone says is their perspective? It seems a little wild to me but he's voicing his oppinion. Might have to agree to disagree.

-AM
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Sharpe on October 18, 2007, 14:52:26
Catmeow, can you tell me more about yourself?
Title: Re: 0 = infinity
Post by: Stookie on October 19, 2007, 11:37:26
I'm locking this thread since there is obviously nothing left on the subject. If anyone wants to keep discussing it (meaning "0=infinity"), let me know and I'll open it back up.