I am re-reading again "The Nature of Personal Reality" by Jane Roberts who channeled the entity called Seth. Even though I have read it before and was blown away by the information presented, now by re-reading it very slowly and soaking up every word's meaning, I am discovering even more deeper knowledge about the way we create our reality. The very technicality of it. Not just thoughts become things, but in depths of how and why experiences occur on a personal and mass level. How did we set up where to be born before we materialized in flesh. What challenges we have preset and how can we alter our current situation. Seth gives many examples of false believes that materialized into negative events. He also gives instructions on how to do exercises, identify your false beliefs and make the negative events fall off when the beliefs are changed. It really goes to the core on how reality comes about. Also how should we be analyzing our negative experiences to identify what the actual lesson is behind, so once the lesson is realized and behavior/ belief changed, then the cycle is broken. I am absolutely loving it, applying all the exercises, but reading very slowly only one page per day and thinking on the info during my quiet time usually at night. I must say, I am seeing more clearly my own life events and I can tell now where some of the reoccurring challenges come from, as far back as originating from my childhood. I am able to recognize them now as false beliefs, I let go of them and I can tell the difference ion my state of mind. Highly recommend it to everyone to read/re-read it slowly and analyze every sentence.
I read this book when I was about twenty and it was a bit tough and slow because of its intellectual structure and slightly rigid language. I knew at the time that I wasn't ready to fully appreciate all the information that it contained but it was excellent nonetheless and very concept-expanding.
So I am no doubt sure that LB is right, that with some more NP experience under your belt (me included), this is one of those books that deserves a second and even third read over the years. Seth's concepts and insights are cogently concentrated in paragraphs and even within single sentences, where as LB points out, a single page can provide enough ideas to reflect upon for a day or two. There are few books, and I'm talking NPR books, that reach this level of profundity and insight.
Another book in this category, but distinctly different in style is Kurt Leland's The Multidimensional Human. Resonance with certain books, especially at this level and depending on experience, is of course an incredibly personal thing and some people I've recommended this book to just didn't have the same reaction, which at first surprised me but eventually led me to that insight. So I will just say that it resonated with me enough that I read it eight times so far.
With that said, The Nature of Personal Reality is likely one of those books that those exploring NPR over decades will continue to find within new and valuable insights. I guess I'll have to pull it off the shelf and put it in my stack of books to read (again)...lol.
I'll put Kurt Leland on my do read list, EV. But you are right, something needs to resonate with our own ideas in order to capture our attention. Seth's books teach one how to realize their own power, and to change their beliefs so they can apply that power to paint their lives per their liking. Beliefs though are not easy to change. Creative and constructive beliefs come from knowledge. I am lucky to have had the ability to test these theories in practice in the NP, so I have validated them and to me they are no longer theories, so my realization due to first hand knowledge have established unshakable constructive beliefs. And although I have read that book as I stated before and I know for a fact that all written there is true, when I read it again, my heart starts beating really fast out of excitement because it reinforces the reminder of exactly how powerful we are, but we can ONLY apply that power if we truly realize it. Realization comes from knowledge. So, we circle back to knowledge. And knowledge can start out as a theory, no worries if any of my readers have not validated it yet. If you find that any theory resonates with you, start trying validating it. It is truly fascinating. Like finding true magic where most people think it is just a fantasy too good to be true. But you discover it to be real. How extraordinarily exciting is that. Life starts making complete sense, even when you are in the midst of a storm, and you are hurting and grieving, you actually know as you lay in emotional or physical pain that there are reasons and you try your best to understand and analyze, instead of feeling like a victim.
Yes, the NP offers an extraordinary stage to play out our understanding of personal power/belief, the realizations and understandings.
That idea of circular energy/knowing becomes ever more evident as our experiences progress. I would add to 'realization comes from knowledge' that the circle can be expanded and maybe include a few more concepts which circle and influence one and another.- Knowledge results in new Theory which requires Intent/Action which results in Experience which results in Realization which results in new Knowledge...and that is a kind of carousel that you can jump onto or stumble onto at any point and suddenly you recognize the process; and this for me, has been the stunning teaching process of the NPR. Once it starts happening and you recognize the process, it does jump-start your heart! Lol.
And it does make one aware of the magic in its truest sense.
A similar and simpler idea is captured in an old Southern US, maybe Texas, saying-
Good Judgment comes from Experience, and a lot of that comes from bad Judgment.
Sorry to barge in, but felt the urge to ask, did anybody around here tried to channel Seth, just curious. I have a mixed bag of experience with channeling, some good some really bad, so I'm cautious before trying.
Quote from: Alex77 on June 20, 2021, 17:37:51
Sorry to barge in, but felt the urge to ask, did anybody around here tried to channel Seth, just curious. I have a mixed bag of experience with channeling, some good some really bad, so I'm cautious before trying.
I think channelings like with Seth are very unique experiences and usually the entity chooses the host. I would not purposely invite and let an entity to overtake my body like that, because of the unknown nature of the energy that might respond. I am fascinated though by these types of channelers, but not all are actually genuine. There is a lot of fraud out there in this field and when we read something, we should always be careful what theories are presented and are they going to lead to false beliefs that will create fears or hinder our progress.
When I meditate, I listen for the collective wisdom of the multiverse. When I ask for power and knowledge, I ask directly the Source of Love (God).
Quote from: LightBeam on June 20, 2021, 18:42:47
I would not purposely invite and let an entity to overtake my body like that, because of the unknown nature of the energy that might respond.
I think you are right, I always now shielding my body with energy after I have been possessed twice and I don't want another experience like that, so when I was trying to channel with someone I was always do it in the border of between awake and asleep, to have a choice of what would happen.
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I am fascinated though by these types of channelers, but not all are actually genuine. There is a lot of fraud out there in this field and when we read something, we should always be careful what theories are presented and are they going to lead to false beliefs that will create fears or hinder our progress.
Right, that is why I'm reading everything with grain of salt and believe in only what clicks with me.
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When I meditate, I listen for the collective wisdom of the multiverse. When I ask for power and knowledge, I ask directly the Source of Love (God).
Did you perhaps have a post somewhere how you begin your session of asking, it will be very helpful.
Quote from: Alex77 on June 20, 2021, 19:13:26
Did you perhaps have a post somewhere how you begin your session of asking, it will be very helpful.
I don't have a special post on how I ask, but here it is the principal. My belief is that if you ask you shall receive in one form or another. Not necessarily in a form of a voice telling me the answer, but sometimes a stream of thoughts, feelings, emotions, all of a sudden just a sense of knowing. We have to learn to break the limitations of expecting to receive knowledge only form reading or listening. It is received in all kinds of forms and we need to learn to recognize them. We have to open our minds and pay attention to everything that is happening in our physical and non-physical life. Every little experience, every little emotion, every little thought, every little reaction.
When I need an answer about something that could be of physical or non-physical nature, maybe a relationship, work, health, etc question, am I doing the rights choice, what should I do, or what is the purpose of life, why there is so much pain, etc. I quiet my mind and I focus on one question at a time. I send the question to the source of all wisdom, to the collective universal wisdom and I open my mind to receive without judgement. I remove the filter of whatever beliefs I may have and I am willing to receive and answer that I many not necessarily like. Sometimes, my own mistakes are pointed out and I can not let my ego justify my wrong doings or my lack of knowledge. I must accept that I can learn only by making efforts to keep improving myself not only spiritually but as a physicals character. It is easier to seek spiritual knowledge than to make efforts to become the best version of your physical character. How many of us can make a list of things we can improve about ourselves? I bet every singe person has, yet we dont take actions, because it take efforts and we may get too comfortable in certain routine that no longer requires efforts. We are not entirely satisfied with our lives, yet we dont take the actions. I think this is perhaps one of the biggest lessons, to use life's tools and grow in character.
So, back to asking. I ask and I open my mind to receive. I do not receive usually an answer ride away. I spend some time listening inward, but usually the answers for me appear as a stream of thoughts out of no where in a few days typically when I am driving, or doing some mindless work where I have enough focus on the physical task to not have other scattered thoughts, but my mind is at ease otherwise and thus opens a channel to receive info from the NP. Sometimes, I receive my answer during dreams with symbols, sometimes during APs, sometimes during interactions with others, reading something from a book, or watching a TV show or a movie with a context that hints me. Sometimes I start seeing repeating numbers, synchronicity, or happening to turn the radio on when certain songs a playing with phrases that hint me as well. I have learned to recognize these types of information and I am able to piece my answers.
"Seriously :roll:" or at least that was the occasional response to me on a Lucid dreaming forums when I told them something similar. Thanks, at least now I know there is another person who thinks the same way as me on the matter. I felt discouraged by them at that time, but now I will try to ask again what questions I have. I didn't ask the God(the source) himself at that time, there was a Guide working with me or maybe he is still with me, waiting patiently my progression.
Quote from: Alex77 on June 20, 2021, 21:03:39
"Seriously :roll:" or at least that was the occasional response to me on a Lucid dreaming forums when I told them something similar. Thanks, at least now I know there is another person who thinks the same way as me on the matter. I felt discouraged by them at that time, but now I will try to ask again what questions I have. I didn't ask the God(the source) himself at that time, there was a Guide working with me or maybe he is still with me, waiting patiently my progression.
Here is a lesson for you. If you have a certain instinct, but you don't know if your instinct is right or wrong and you hear several types of different opinions. What can you do. Test it out. Test what works and what doesn't. Try your way and then try their way. This is the only way to receive actual knowledge. Knowledge is not something you read about or hear opinions. True knowledge comes from first hand experience. Opinions are ok for us to read as they are part of our interactions with one another, with nature with energy, with God, etc. Exchange of information is important, but until you validate something for yourself to be true, then it is just a theory.
Alex77 I will back up LightBeam's excellent advice. Don't pigeonhole your experiences to someone else' ideas. Be open to knowledge/ answers in whatever way they present to you. And always make it clear that you only accept answers from the source (God).
Use what works for you and accept that others will have alternative means to accomplish their goals.
The lesson was more in the line of "Don't post astral stuff on a forum full of skeptics", of course I wasn't aware their respective AP/OBE subForum was made just for the laugh at that time, they just plainly said I'm delusional :|, there weren't any advices or theories present. I wonder now what the difference would be if I had found this forum first years ago.
Quote from: Nameless on June 20, 2021, 23:15:03
And always make it clear that you only accept answers from the source (God).
I'm not sure about receiving answers only from God, because I encountered many spiritual guides on my journey.
In fact how you know the answers are coming directly from God itself, God have many familiars and messengers, together with the many ascended spirits and other mystical beings. It is very populated both in the astral and etheric plane after all.
Quote from: Alex77 on June 21, 2021, 00:40:14
I'm not sure about receiving answers only from God, because I encountered many spiritual guides on my journey.
In fact how you know the answers are coming directly from God itself, God have many familiars and messengers, together with the many ascended spirits and other mystical beings. It is very populated both in the astral and etheric plane after all.
Think of God as including all things/beings good and they are here to guide us as individuals and we as the whole of humanity. Yes there are many who inhabit that realm and they all act at the behest of God/Universal Love (whatever name or term resonates best with you. I find it easier and most direct to simply acknowledge God.
I know many people have hangs-ups with the mention of God, I don't.
Quote from: Nameless on June 21, 2021, 12:00:43
Yes there are many who inhabit that realm and they all act at the behest of God.
I'm not sure this is the place so you can answer me in any thread you see to fit, did you have any encounters with Angels during AP?
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I know many people have hangs-ups with the mention of God, I don't.
I hope one day when you understood what God really is, not to be the day to experience a hang-up.
Quote from: Nameless on June 21, 2021, 12:00:43
I know many people have hangs-ups with the mention of God, I don't.
Quote from: Alex77 on June 21, 2021, 15:56:07
I hope one day when you understood what God really is, not to be the day to experience a hang-up.
I think a misunderstanding has arisen, I may saying that but I also believe in God, we are in kind of a hang up at the moment, you can say our relationship is bit complicated.
I will share something personal with you, when I was super young and I was just able to spoke my first words, I started telling stories about God,
about the Angels, about Spirits, the Devil, about Demons, a Holy War between Heaven and Hell. How many kids would start talking about those kind of stuff when they first start talking, my parents were in a kind of shock! They even brought me to a Priest, he was shocked too by the way.
Hi Alex, to answer your question, yes I have had np experiences with angels and other divine beings. One of those experiences was actually quite frightening yet incredibly awe inspiring.
Quote from: Alex77 on June 21, 2021, 00:40:14
The lesson was more in the line of "Don't post astral stuff on a forum full of skeptics", of course I wasn't aware their respective AP/OBE subForum was made just for the laugh at that time, they just plainly said I'm delusional :|, there weren't any advices or theories present. I wonder now what the difference would be if I had found this forum first years ago.
It's hard finding a good website geared to teach, counsel wisely and work towards the same goal. Many only inspire fear and wild fantasies. Admittedly those of us here are still seeking answers and information ourselves but we try to encourage different techniques and chains of thought. I also would have loved to have found this forum long before I did.
Quote from: Alex77 on June 21, 2021, 15:56:07
I hope one day when you understood what God really is, not to be the day to experience a hang-up.
Yeah, me too (LOL)
Quote from: Alex77 on June 22, 2021, 14:09:26
I will share something personal with you, when I was super young and I was just able to spoke my first words, I started telling stories about God, about the Angels, about Spirits, the Devil, about Demons, a Holy War between Heaven and Hell. How many kids would start talking about those kind of stuff when they first start talking, my parents were in a kind of shock! They even brought me to a Priest, he was shocked too by the way.
I imagine they were indeed shocked. So how does a child know these things? That is the ultimate question. Many of us here have had very unique childhood experiences that could not be explained, or not explained well back then. We are still working on figuring these things out. I know I don't have all the answers but I feel I am getting closer. Closer at least to understanding my own experiences.
I think the biggest hurdle we have in our understanding is language. Words mean different things to different people unfortunately. And many words carry past weight which truly does us all no justice. An example is God. My God (always capitol G) is the same as the Universal Creative Force or Universal Love. What's above and beyond that is anybody's guess. I don't waste time thinking about that as it is clear to me that we just aren't capable of thinking that far out yet. BUT I can think about what is between me and thee always striving to be better.
Quote from: Nameless on June 22, 2021, 17:16:29
Hi Alex, to answer your question, yes I have had np experiences with angels and other divine beings. One of those experiences was actually quite frightening yet incredibly awe inspiring.
I have two experience with angels, they are kind of personal so not sure about sharing them, but when I encountered them there were no fear on my side, they were sending only love and positive energy, actually during high AP or OBE I can sense energy, feel it like a six sense, so I can distinguish between the real thing or a trickster and I found a lot of tricksters out there.
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Admittedly those of us here are still seeking answers and information ourselves but we try to encourage different techniques and chains of thought. I also would have loved to have found this forum long before I did.
Yeah, I'm constant answer seeker myself and love to experiment with other's tech and tech I'm creating myself.
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I imagine they were indeed shocked. So how does a child know these things? That is the ultimate question.
For myself I think this is something from my previous live, I left two tips in my mind for when I get born: To not forget who I am. and To not forget what I am. But it was lost in the transaction, it seems someone erased my memories, but it is still enough to seek for the truth none the less.
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Many of us here have had very unique childhood experiences that could not be explained, or not explained well back then. We are still working on figuring these things out. I know I don't have all the answers but I feel I am getting closer. Closer at least to understanding my own experiences.
I feel we are in a similar boat in that big Ocean called the Universe, trying to collect the puzzle piece by piece.
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I think the biggest hurdle we have in our understanding is language. Words mean different things to different people unfortunately. And many words carry past weight which truly does us all no justice. An example is God. My God (always capitol G) is the same as the Universal Creative Force or Universal Love.
I see, you are not into religion, I'm Christian btw, but I'm trying not to talk about religion on forums like this.
Quote from: Alex77 on June 22, 2021, 18:25:13
I see, you are not into religion, I'm Christian btw, but I'm trying not to talk about religion on forums like this.
I understand shying away. It seems if you want to stir up confusion just talk politics or religion. :-)
I see religion as something created by humanity, mostly as a form of control and that I don't care a thing for. However I am deeply spiritual and do have my own beliefs. Was raised Baptist for the most part with a few other teachings thrown in. Went through all the same stages most young people go through trying to figure out the universe, where we came from and the biggie, is God real.
Speaking in Christian terms does not bother me in the least. In my own perception spirituality should be included in our talks about np, oobe, phasing, visions, clairvoyance ect. Am I Christian? I plead the blood of Christ and am just coming into a greater understanding of just how our universe is ordered. However feel free to talk the way that suits you best. I am sure we can all figure it out.
Quote from: Nameless on June 22, 2021, 17:16:29
Words mean different things to different people unfortunately. And many words carry past weight which truly does us all no justice. An example is God. My God (always capitol G) is the same as the Universal Creative Force or Universal Love.
You are right, God is not equal to God, this is not mathematics we are talking about after all, but in the end of the day there can be only one GOD^^ There is not such thing as "my god", but if you truly want to purely talk about AP and OBE, and not about religion, maybe you must refrain from involving the name of God in all of this. I'm not sure why started talking about religion even after I say don't want to talk about religion in the first place. Not bad feeling involved, but remember that you first started talking about your God:
QuoteAnd always make it clear that you only accept answers from the source (God)
That is why I'm always refering to spiritual guides and higher self when I receive teaching.
I think if you divest the word God of its many associations and just get to its core then its highly relevant to OBEs AP etc... aren't all the people on this forum here to ultimately reach God/source/consciousness/pure awareness?
But to difuse this topic and redirect it slightly, I have a query on this topic...
If the people on this forum are in fact searching for the source/pure consciousness as a goal (and some of you might not be), then why are so many of us not placing attention on awareness/consciousness itself if that's our goal? But rather we are placing attention still on the distracting content of experience. I consider all non physical experiences still to be objective content. A more refined version than physical objects but still objects. Subtle objects if you will.
If pure consciousness is the goal then why are we being distracted by the shiny objects? Guides, angels, focus 27, the afterlife etc... - all still just content to distract you from the simple silence presence that you are.
Consciousness is everpresent but we are determined to ignore it even when we are seeking it
I think of the Adyashanti quote on the notion of all paths lead to god/truth... 'There's no such thing as a path to the truth. The truth is already here. Where are you going?"
Just a thought.
I wish we had an applause button Floriferous. This is exactly the point I've tried to get across before but I keep getting tongue tied or finger twisted. Thank you for providing so much clarity!!!
Quote from: floriferous on June 24, 2021, 13:25:23
I think if you divest the word God of its many associations and just get to its core then its highly relevant to OBEs AP etc... aren't all the people on this forum here to ultimately reach God/source/consciousness/pure awareness?
Not all of us, some have other goals!
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But rather we are placing attention still on the distracting content of experience.
I'm sorry, did you just called all the experiences meaningless? Just a thought maybe you must stay in the Void, pure consciousness, no trivial stuff. I'm sure the more of you here didn't explore the Void enough, did you ever tried to stay longer in there, maintaining it and see what will happen, maybe ever expanding it.
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I consider all non physical experiences still to be objective content. A more refined version than physical objects but still objects. Subtle objects if you will.
This is little opposite of me, physical event are also subjective experience, just on greater level.
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If pure consciousness is the goal then why are we being distracted by the shiny objects? Guides, angels, focus 27, the afterlife etc... - all still just content to distract you from the simple silence presence that you are.
I'm sorry, but maybe you never found a guide or your higher self, guides are always providing me with crucial information about what I'm experiencing, most of my knowledge through the years is not from some books, but from those distracting guides!
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I think of the Adyashanti quote on the notion of all paths lead to god/truth... 'There's no such thing as a path to the truth. The truth is already here. Where are you going?"
Just a thought.
If truth is already here then why you are still not Aware of it? Why you are searching for it?
Individualized spirit expressions have chosen to be exactly where they need to be to experience exactly what they need to experience in order to realize knowledge which leads to the truth. All of these components of the spirit journey are interconnected. If there was no need to seek, we wouldn't be here in the first place. Everything has a reason. All individual spirits never stop learning, and by extension the collective consciousness of All That Is (God) is in a constant state of becoming. The truth of course is everywhere, but there is a need of realization of it, otherwise we are blind to it and as individual spirits we perceive it a a path, a series of experiences to realize the truth. Again, if we find ourselves in a character, oriented to a certain reality, then we have not found what we are looking for yet. In one way or another, in whichever manner we do it, we are seekers.
Quote from: Alex77 on June 25, 2021, 05:01:40
Not all of us, some have other goals!
Well I believe if you read fully what I wrote I say some people may have other goals.
Quote from: Alex77 on June 25, 2021, 05:01:40
I'm sorry, did you just called all the experiences meaningless? Just a thought maybe you must stay in the Void, pure consciousness, no trivial stuff. I'm sure the more of you here didn't explore the Void enough, did you ever tried to stay longer in there, maintaining it and see what will happen, maybe ever expanding it.
No, I never said it was meaningless. That's twisting my words. I think experience is extremely valuable to see yourself in the contrast. But I think exclusively focusing on objects is an endless rabbit hole. You will struggle to find your way out.
I'm not sure why you would say i would think the void is meaningless. I talked only about experiences relating to objects. The only way to describe the void is the absence of objects hence its name. I feel like you either skim-read or mis-read my post because that's literally the opposite. In fact, your example backs up my stance.
All this talk is based on a shared definition of void as well and I'm not so sure we share it. Beyond body. Beyond mind. Beyond emotion. Just being. Becomes less about experience and more about the simple continuity of being.
Quote from: Alex77 on June 25, 2021, 05:01:40
This is little opposite of me, physical event are also subjective experience, just on greater level.
Not really what I meant. Not objectivity versus subjectivity. But simply 'objects'. I would consider a book to be an object. Also a thought. An emotion. Anything in a non physical experience is an object just more refined object. Anything you can accurately describe would be an object.
As opposed to say awareness. This has no perceivable objective qualities. That's what makes it the subject. That's why in Vedantic tradition they use the netti netti approach (not this, not this) to awareness -you can only say what it isn't because it has no object-like qualities. That is why I say non-physical experiences are still objects because the mind is still in play. No different that the waking state. Both are born of mind - Thought. And thought is an object. The Subject (pure awareness) is constantly in the background because we are too focused on the objects.
Quote from: Alex77 on June 25, 2021, 05:01:40
I'm sorry, but maybe you never found a guide or your higher self, guides are always providing me with crucial information about what I'm experiencing, most of my knowledge through the years is not from some books, but from those distracting guides!
Good for you. Been there. Done that. I personally would say that's feeding your spiritual ego.
You make a lot of presumptions about me considering this is our first interaction.
Quote from: Alex77 on June 25, 2021, 05:01:40
If truth is already here then why you are still not Aware of it? Why you are searching for it?
Because 'people are searching for it' is the exact reason you don't see it. It's the absence of searching (the absence of a path) which reveals it. It's like happiness. The very searching for it is the root of the unhappiness we feel.
This is why I'm questioning going after shiny objects when all that is required is to sit in being. No searching. No ridiculous conceptualizing and analyzing exactly like we are doing right now on a spiritual forum (what can I say - my ego was craving it this week).
Quote from: LightBeam on June 25, 2021, 08:50:56
Individualized spirit expressions have chosen to be exactly where they need to be to experience exactly what they need to experience in order to realize knowledge which leads to the truth. All of these components of the spirit journey are interconnected. If there was no need to seek, we wouldn't be here in the first place. Everything has a reason. All individual spirits never stop learning, and by extension the collective consciousness of All That Is (God) is in a constant state of becoming. The truth of course is everywhere, but there is a need of realization of it, otherwise we are blind to it and as individual spirits we perceive it a a path, a series of experiences to realize the truth. Again, if we find ourselves in a character, oriented to a certain reality, then we have not found what we are looking for yet. In one way or another, in whichever manner we do it, we are seekers.
Hey Lightbeam,
I agree there is a need to evolve from the perspective of the individual self. I'm just not so sure I agree on the path anymore.
There is a need of realization but I think we are blinding ourselves to it with the distractions. I go back to my original point. If pure awareness is the goal then why not place awareness only on awareness itself? What's with all the shiny stuff along the way? It's feeling increasing superfluous to me. It's extra bloating and I don't think it needs to be.
Our Being is simple. Why have we complicated it?
Quote from: Nameless on June 24, 2021, 19:45:04
I wish we had an applause button Floriferous. This is exactly the point I've tried to get across before but I keep getting tongue tied or finger twisted. Thank you for providing so much clarity!!!
You're welcome. Thank you.
I do know that it is in the stillness, the quieting of the mind that truth is revealed. It just comes sometimes blindingly clear in the moment, sometimes not till we begin to stir from that quietness.
There is a singular truth and there is a personal truth, there are many truths but we don't need to chase them. They come of their own accord through the spirit revealing itself in its own time.
What we practice here is an exploration, we challenge ourselves to do what 'we' want to do. We do this on a conscious level no matter how hard we 'try' to lose our conscious awareness and move into the subconscious. Spirit is not confined by our wants. Spirit is what connects us to the Divine.
Quote from: floriferous on June 25, 2021, 09:29:17
Well I believe if you read fully what I wrote I say some people may have other goals.
I read that.
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No, I never said it was meaningless. That's twisting my words. I think experience is extremely valuable to see yourself in the contrast. But I think exclusively focusing on objects is an endless rabbit hole. You will struggle to find your way out.
I'm not focusing on "objects".
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I'm not sure why you would say i would think the void is meaningless. I talked only about experiences relating to objects. The only way to describe the void is the absence of objects hence its name. I feel like you either skim-read or mis-read my post because that's literally the opposite. In fact, your example backs up my stance.
Maybe you should reread my post and come again, I said that if you don't want to experience a scenario, just stay in the Void(pure awareness), try to explore it, did you ever try to wait enough to what is at the other end of the Void, if not then I strongly recommend you to try.
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All this talk is based on a shared definition of void as well and I'm not so sure we share it. Beyond body. Beyond mind. Beyond emotion. Just being. Becomes less about experience and more about the simple continuity of being.
I think we both have perfect understanding of the Void!
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Not really what I meant. Not objectivity versus subjectivity. But simply 'objects'. I would consider a book to be an object. Also a thought. An emotion. Anything in a non physical experience is an object just more refined object. Anything you can accurately describe would be an object.
They are not objects, that is just you.
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As opposed to say awareness. This has no perceivable objective qualities. That's what makes it the subject. That's why in Vedantic tradition they use the netti netti approach (not this, not this) to awareness -you can only say what it isn't because it has no object-like qualities. That is why I say non-physical experiences are still objects because the mind is still in play. No different that the waking state. Both are born of mind - Thought. And thought is an object. The Subject (pure awareness) is constantly in the background because we are too focused on the objects.
Look, are you are just refering to some objective tradition.
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Good for you. Been there. Done that. I personally would say that's feeding your spiritual ego.
Funny, because in most of my AP and OBE experiences my Ego is far lesser part of me. I would say even that the most interesting stuff happens when I completely let go of my Ego.
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You make a lot of presumptions about me considering this is our first interaction.
Nah, you are completely clear to me, at some point you lost the drive to search for the truth, because you started to see it as bothersome boring exercise.
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Because 'people are searching for it' is the exact reason you don't see it. It's the absence of searching (the absence of a path) which reveals it. It's like happiness. The very searching for it is the root of the unhappiness we feel.
This is why I'm questioning going after shiny objects when all that is required is to sit in being. No searching. No ridiculous conceptualizing and analyzing exactly like we are doing right now on a spiritual forum (what can I say - my ego was craving it this week).
Then please sit down relax and wait for it, maybe eventually you will find it by not searching for it, maybe after a 1000 or 10000 years but eventually never the less.
And relax I haven't any hard or ill feelings against you, after all everybody has it's own Path to follow:)
Let's be nice to each other. We claim to have wisdom, yet we react to such arguments in that manner. I have deleted the last few posts, and this topic will be locked if we cant agree to disagree. Everyone has their own understanding of reality and if one thing works for one person, it may work differently for another. We are also from different parts of the world, speaking different native languages. Sometimes words can not express what we really think, so we end up misunderstanding each other.
We are all on the same boat of school. How we learn, it's up to each of us individually.
I completely agree with you, LightBeam, everyone has it's own path to follow and they only agree to stuff that resonates with themselves.
I'm just responding to the last two post- I hope you don't mind. It reminded me of the wisdom shared by my friend and affirms your positions...
"That way is best which suits you best. The way of one person is not for another person, although man is always inclined to accuse another person of doing wrong, believing that he himself is doing right. ..."
https://wahiduddin.net/saki/saki_date.php?m=6&d=24
It seem simple enough but how often we forget is pretty astounding.
Floriferous, it's those "shiny things", as you call them, that teach us to go deeper. Many of them seem to be the "Teachers". They come in all forms and can be "interpreted" in many ways. Angels, ETs, etc., it seems to follow our own structure of "belief".
EscapeVelocity here, replied recently about a "progression" of sorts, that seems to have to happen to teach us to go further. Floriferous, you have gone through a few of the Monroe Institute courses and have seen this progression first hand. You can't sign up for Lifelines until you have already did the Gateway course . You can't sign up for Focus 27, unless you have already completed the Lifeline course. Then you can't move onto Starlines until you have completed the Focus 27 course. Why is this? It's simply because every course taught you how to go that much further. Do they at the Monroe Institute tell you what you are going to experience? No, they don't. They just supply the "tool" that is needed to get there. The NPR in general has a similar "progression" to it.
My Doorway technique does the same thing. It will lead you to what you need to know or see. It will set you up for the lessons that are necessary to move on. I read how so many people get to the "3D Void", stay there for a few seconds, then return back. Rarely do I hear about people mentally "moving into it". One of the things that people seem to experience when noticing is some kind of spinning vortex or grey mist. They notice it, but don't move beyond that. When you are aware of it, all you have to do is set your awareness beyond it. When you see the grey clouds, focus on the further one in. That will lead to you being drawn or "it" drawing you deeper in. The same thing with a spinning vortex. Be aware of the further point in the center of it and you will be there. The NPR is creating these for the purpose of drawing you in deeper. The thing is, it is a very potent "fear test" as well. Moving deeper into the unknown will challenge your fear. Once you do and see that there is nothing to fear, you can move onto the next "stage" of your NP development or evolution.
Yes, you can bask in the void and just be. A Monk friend of mine says you have to stop the visuals and just learn to be. That's what they teach. Watch your thoughts, but don't engage them. He doesn't subscribe to the action of Astral Projection. He teaches people to experience the "oneness". I have found that there are many ways to achieve the same thing. In my Doorway thread I constantly say that I will show you ways to "get there". But what you experience is for you, not me.
I have posted here for years. Still to this day I share what I know that might help a person to experience the NP, for whatever reason it is they wish to. The only reason I am still posting here today is to reach out to, find, converse, make friends with and yes, help what they call the "1% ers". Edgar Mitchell's FREE institute has studied stats for years and has found that it seems to be 1% of the population that seem to be consciously open to what we are here. Many of us here are part of that 1%. Whether they are a Observer, a Retrievist, a Star Seed, a Wanderer, a Experiencer, it seems that they share the same traits as well. Those are the people I want to reach. Whether they come out of the shadows and post here or not. Just reading what I have to share and having the chance to introduce this all to them is worth every moment I spend here.
Nobody from this Forum has ever met me. You can't find pictures of me on Facebook. I am not even on it. I still don't even use a Cellphone. I always say, it's the "message" not the Messenger that is important. Ego has never been an issue. Ego is one of the worst things to stop a person from further NP evolution. You will find through your own NPR experiences that there seems to be a focus on you learning to not really totally abolish ego, but to "notice/be aware" it and then to "tame it".
While in a Retrieval years ago, I excepted the opportunity to be a "Retrievist" after I transitioned from my physical body here. After I did, I went months before I had another "conscious" Retrieval. I guess it wasn't necessary for me to consciously experience them anymore. But on some level, I knew they were still continuing. Last week I did have three different ones. But in all 3 of them, I wasn't told or even aware I was in a Retrieval until the end, when it was important to be. Through these Retrievals, I have learned more about the paranormal, as in Ghosts and Hauntings. Some of the Souls I have Retrieved have been pretty angry and "broken" souls. Sometimes the answers to help them were so simple. But the answers eluded theses Souls because they were so caught up in their "hellish simulations". To aid them I had to witness and enter into their "personal hells".
Out of everything I have ever read or heard of the topic of "non physical experiences or shifts in consciousness", the one that stands out the most is Kurt Leland's youtube video where he shares the finding of "Annie Bessant". It finally made everything make sense. If you haven't listened to it, you should. More than one time too. It's that good.
She explains what it is that people seek. What traits that may of us share in common. Here is a link to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA12Xd3Zq0I&t=1s
Quote from: Lumaza on June 25, 2021, 19:32:59
Floriferous, it's those "shiny things", as you call them, that teach us to go deeper. Many of them seem to be the "Teachers". They come in all forms and can be "interpreted" in many ways. Angels, ETs, etc., it seems to follow our own structure of "belief".
EscapeVelocity here, replied recently about a "progression" of sorts, that seems to have to happen to teach us to go further. Floriferous, you have gone through a few of the Monroe Institute courses and have seen this progression first hand. You can't sign up for Lifelines until you have already did the Gateway course . You can't sign up for Focus 27, unless you have already completed the Lifeline course. Then you can't move onto Starlines until you have completed the Focus 27 course. Why is this? It's simply because every course taught you how to go that much further. Do they at the Monroe Institute tell you what you are going to experience? No, they don't. They just supply the "tool" that is needed to get there. The NPR in general has a similar "progression" to it.
My Doorway technique does the same thing. It will lead you to what you need to know or see. It will set you up for the lessons that are necessary to move on. I read how so many people get to the "3D Void", stay there for a few seconds, then return back. Rarely do I hear about people mentally "moving into it". One of the things that people seem to experience when noticing is some kind of spinning vortex or grey mist. They notice it, but don't move beyond that. When you are aware of it, all you have to do is set your awareness beyond it. When you see the grey clouds, focus on the further one in. That will lead to you being drawn or "it" drawing you deeper in. The same thing with a spinning vortex. Be aware of the further point in the center of it and you will be there. The NPR is creating these for the purpose of drawing you in deeper. The thing is, it is a very potent "fear test" as well. Moving deeper into the unknown will challenge your fear. Once you do and see that there is nothing to fear, you can move onto the next "stage" of your NP development or evolution.
Yes, you can bask in the void and just be. A Monk friend of mine says you have to stop the visuals and just learn to be. That's what they teach. Watch your thoughts, but don't engage them. He doesn't subscribe to the action of Astral Projection. He teaches people to experience the "oneness". I have found that there are many ways to achieve the same thing. In my Doorway thread I constantly say that I will show you ways to "get there". But what you experience is for you, not me.
I have posted here for years. Still to this day I share what I know that might help a person to experience the NP, for whatever reason it is they wish to. The only reason I am still posting here today is to reach out to, find, converse, make friends with and yes, help what they call the "1% ers". Edgar Mitchell's FREE institute has studied stats for years and has found that it seems to be 1% of the population that seem to be consciously open to what we are here. Many of us here are part of that 1%. Whether they are a Observer, a Retrievist, a Star Seed, a Wanderer, a Experiencer, it seems that they share the same traits as well. Those are the people I want to reach. Whether they come out of the shadows and post here or not. Just reading what I have to share and having the chance to introduce this all to them is worth every moment I spend here.
Nobody from this Forum has ever met me. You can't find pictures of me on Facebook. I am not even on it. I still don't even use a Cellphone. I always say, it's the "message" not the Messenger that is important. Ego has never been an issue. Ego is one of the worst things to stop a person from further NP evolution. You will find through your own NPR experiences that there seems to be a focus on you learning to not really totally abolish ego, but to "notice/be aware" it and then to "tame it".
While in a Retrieval years ago, I excepted the opportunity to be a "Retrievist" after I transitioned from my physical body here. After I did, I went months before I had another "conscious" Retrieval. I guess it wasn't necessary for me to consciously experience them anymore. But on some level, I knew they were still continuing. Last week I did have three different ones. But in all 3 of them, I wasn't told or even aware I was in a Retrieval until the end, when it was important to be. Through these Retrievals, I have learned more about the paranormal, as in Ghosts and Hauntings. Some of the Souls I have Retrieved have been pretty angry and "broken" souls. Sometimes the answers to help them were so simple. But the answers eluded theses Souls because they were so caught up in their "hellish simulations". To aid them I had to witness and enter into their "personal hells".
Out of everything I have ever read or heard of the topic of "non physical experiences or shifts in consciousness", the one that stands out the most is Kurt Leland's youtube video where he shares the finding of "Annie Bessant". It finally made everything make sense. If you haven't listened to it, you should. More than one time too. It's that good.
She explains what it is that people seek. What traits that may of us share in common. Here is a link to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA12Xd3Zq0I&t=1s
You're right there is a progression to the courses TMI offer. Having been a outreach trainer for TMI I also know that this progression is largely business model related. Front door products, path to advancement and all that. There's nothing magical or more advanced to Focus 27 than Focus 10. TMI themselves will tell you the numbers are utterly arbitrary. They may as well say you are now moving from Focus Sausage to Focus Cabbage. This would probably be better because you wouldn't build a needless belief around higher numbers denoting greater importance.
You only have to delve into the binaural beats themselves to find in many ways that something like focus 10 is more complex than Focus 27. Focus 27 uses one binaural beat at 4hz layered onto itself at a number of different carrier frequencies. Pretty simple stuff, right? It's just a thought that tells you that you need to work up to such a focus level.
TMI offer a course called 'Peak Week' where you sample lots of advanced courses with no prerequisites. A beginner with no experience can sample Starlines.
But back on point, the video you allude to is interesting. I think the crux of it for me is around 41minute mark where he points to two paths that loosely describe the divide in opinion we are discussing here. The Occult path is what Astral Pulse is all about. OBEs, astral projection and a step by step spiritual advancement approach to reach Source as the ultimate goal. Guides, teachers, and angels along the way.
The other path he talks about which is closer to what I am referring to is the path of Mysticism which differs because it is about transcending everything to reach Source. Both paths are indeed valid. Not saying they are not as they both supposedly end up at the same point which is Source.
For me it's the difference between going on vacation and choosing to walk the 500 miles of landscape to the destination as opposed to transcend it in a plane.
A part of me wonders that because our brain seems to be hard-wired to this notion of a step by step approach to learning and developing (you can't get anywhere in this world without hard work apparently) that it discounts such a path that transcends all those steps through the absence of doing. What if it was that simple?
Quote from: floriferous on August 04, 2021, 13:39:55
This would probably be better because you wouldn't build a needless belief around higher numbers denoting greater importance.
Yes, we all know how your beliefs can color your experiences.
QuoteYou only have to delve into the binaural beats themselves to find in many ways that something like focus 10 is more complex than Focus 27. Focus 27 uses one binaural beat at 4hz layered onto itself at a number of different carrier frequencies. Pretty simple stuff, right? It's just a thought that tells you that you need to work up to such a focus level.
That is why I find Binaural Beats and Isochronic Tones so important. It's not the immediate effect they have on you. I see it more as the long term brain entrainment that you receive. You learn how to discern the different Focus levels or should I say levels of consciousness. After awhile, you learn to notice whether you are in Astral, Mental, Causal, etc. zone and because of that you can utilize it to it's fullest.
QuoteTMI offer a course called 'Peak Week' where you sample lots of advanced courses with no prerequisites. A beginner with no experience can sample Starlines.
That sounds cool. I would enjoy that! 8-) :-)
QuoteBoth paths are indeed valid. Not saying they are not as they both supposedly end up at the same point which is Source.
That's the important point and what I say to people that say my Doorway technique is not "Spiritual" enough. It will lead you to a NPR experience. What you see and what you experience is for "you". If you need to see the spiritual side of the NPR, it shall be there. But you should leave yourself open to any thing that is presented to you.
QuoteFor me it's the difference between going on vacation and choosing to walk the 500 miles of landscape to the destination as opposed to transcend it in a plane.
Once again, agreed. I find your mindset makes the difference here. If you release or "mentally affirm" every time you close your eyes to Phase or even when you close to your eyes to fall asleep, that you now "release" your focus over your physical body and are ready to consciously experience what comes next, you find yourself transcending, not even needing the plane. If you continue holding a physical mindset, you will have to walk those 500 miles.
QuoteA part of me wonders that because our brain seems to be hard-wired to this notion of a step by step approach to learning and developing (you can't get anywhere in this world without hard work apparently) that it discounts such a path that transcends all those steps through the absence of doing. What if it was that simple?
it is that simple. It's us, through all of our "mental wiring" here that makes that so. You can learn to "rewire" that system and yes, that happens through determination and hard work. I look at it like learning to play a Guitar. Could you imagine if Eddie Van Halen (RIP), one of the best "Shredders" ever on the Guitar, picked it up, tried it for a week and gave up? He was one of the pioneers in the Rock movement.
Now, we live in the "NOW Generation". Everyone expects speed. That is the new "wiring" going on. If it didn't happen yesterday, it's a farce or not worthy of your time. There is a serious lack of "staying power". We talk about this here on the Pulse and I hear it repeatedly from Authors and Guests via Radio Talk shows (Coast to Coast AM, Jimmy Church/Fade to Black Radio). They all say the same thing, "Rome wasn't built in a day". It's hard to get people to apply all of the good info and techniques out there. You can lead a Horse to water, but you can't make them drink it.
Years ago I bought a $200 Astral Projection program. Much of the info in it could be found for free here and on other Forums. I bought it because it was like a "anchor" to me. It showed me I was all in. My "dedication" to it. I bought my Light Sound machine for the same reason. It was funny though. When I bought the $200 program, they also give you a duplicate of the program to give to a friend for free. Through the years some of MJ and my acquaintances have shown a interest in the LDs and APs I talk about. They said they would love to "try" doing it. Yet when I offered them the "free" program, they said "no thank you". I really can't stand "lip service"! :roll: