The Astral Pulse

Spiritual Evolution => Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! => Topic started by: Kuhl on June 18, 2003, 03:48:02

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Kuhl on June 18, 2003, 03:48:02
I am a Christian in the sense that I believe in most of the Bible's word, but I also know that some has been changed to serve the needs of men.  I used to be believe I could feel the energies and comments from God and the Holy spirit but now I am not sure whether they are directly those sources or perhaps spirit guides and angels or simple channeling energy and connecting to a greater conscious. Maybe they are all the same?  I will know the answer someday.

An important thing to remember about Christianity is that the word itself conjures up images of organized hierarchical religion, but this categorizing is wrong.  The hierarchy was created by humans for power.  Many of the Christian ideals are also false made by the Church to surpress knowledge of the true spirit world.  

I have lately been doubting whether or not Jesus intended for his teachings of spiritual enlightment and greater learning to be used for a "religion".  The word religion seems like such a nasty word.  It seems he intended it for a way of life that should be used for all.

To be reborn means to except God, the light (good), into your heart.  You can be given strength just by asking for it and making yourself susceptible.  I would ask for it and it got my through many years.  Oh and God's signs... I preceive God as the Creator and the source of divinity, I think he is everything.  The Christian God is the same as all the other God's of the light.  I dont think there is any seperation or division between the God of other religions.  They just have different names.  The same concept goes with angels, found throughout other religions.

And no you won't go to hell.  I believe that a great deal of that idea was created to give the church power.  With that idea it was essential for men to find their salvation before damnation and what was the only way to find that salvation for the Christian world?
Now after you die there may be a period of time that you subject yourself to learning process and maybe even punish yourself, but I dont know.

I hope a made a bit of sense and didnt contradict myself to much.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: GTP on June 18, 2003, 07:37:39
The Holy Spirit can cause OBE's and mystical experiences for certain people under certain circumstances. God works differently for different people. OBE's actually brought me to Christianity![^]

I believe it is possible to combine *some* new age practices into Christianity. I do, as long as it doesn't go against the Bible. I follow the Bible and don't believe it has been tampered with or altered, God would NOT allow that. It can however be misinterpreted. That is where the Holy Spirit comes in. To guide you to greater understanding through whatever means God sees fit.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: KP on June 18, 2003, 12:34:39
God would NOT allow that

God allows everything, that's his quality.  To find Godliness you have to allow everything too.  What good is the bible?

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Squeek on June 18, 2003, 16:16:43
I'm a Catholic Christian, and I can tell you that anything on this earth is allowed, but not esentially acceptable.  You could go and blow something up right now.. not much stopping you (cept maybe 100 policemen :D)  But you will be stopped, tried, convicted, and killed for it.  Take that into play.


Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: GTP on June 18, 2003, 19:06:46
You guys just don't get it do you. Oh well, we all grow.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Kuhl on June 18, 2003, 19:17:49
The bible as been tampered with to allow the Church greater control over men.  God would not have a choice on whether or not the bible was tampered with, he did give men free-will.  To say that he would not allow it is like saying that he didn't allow the Holocaust to happen, just plain ignorance, the desires of men are tremendous. You should know this.  

I want you to think of something else, Jesus wasn't the one that wrote the Bible many different sources did (same for the Old Testament), how many mouths did the information pass through before it landed in writing?  How much did the desires of men effect his word (say for instance if someone did not like women having any power)?

GTP, you are going against the bibles word just by having OBEs.  They are the work of the devil in the eyes of the bible.  I also hope your not using any psychic abilities or hell is were your going for sure...

The Lord does not want us to blindly except things, unless you hear the words from the Creator himself, which unless very attuned should still be questioned, question it and you will be better for doing so.

The best way not to misinterept the Bible is to go and learn Hebrew and Latin and develop your third eye chakra to its fulliest potential.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Adrian on June 18, 2003, 20:29:02
Greetings everyone,

There is no doubt at all that the bible, which was written (and re-written) hundreds of years after the death of the great Master known as Jesus (Joshua ben Joseph), is a complete misinterpretation of his words. Jesus was probably the highest Spiritual Master to have ever incarnated on Earth along with Hermes Trismegistus. We are told that  Jesus was a high initiate and an advanced Spirit even before Earth itself existed. Those exalted Beings of the cosmic spheres are involved with the evolution of the entire Universe, not just of Earth. Jesus was therefore closest to "The All" or "God" than anyone at the time.

He came to Earth to teach Spiritual truths to those who could understand. As he said himself, "do not cast your pearls before swine". His objective was not to cause a new religion or even to teach the masses, but rather to find and teach enough sufficiently Spiritually advanced people to continue the work of himself and his initial disciples over the centuries. His teachings were therefore mystical and symbolic, only understandable by those who were sufficiently Spiritually advanced - that was his filter and how he selected his disciples and followers.

John was also a very high initiate, sent to Earth to be a witness and document the work of the Master. St. John's gospel (like much of the bible) is also therefore heavily mystic and symbolic, and the true meaning was and still is only known to those who could understand - that was always the intention. The consistent teaching is that we are all sons and daughters of God, and that until people recognised that fact, live in Spirit and turn towards the true path, they would not see the "kingdom of Heaven", in other words the Celestial Planes. Of course, the "born agains" have interpreted this to mean that if they go to church, read the bible, and believe in Jesus, then they get to to heaven rather than hell [:)]

The writers of the bible later turned the original words into a dogmatic, orthodox religion, by which they could control the masses. So the plural became singular - instead of us all being the sons and daughters of God, the bible has it do only Jesus is the son of God. Everything was written, mostly because they genuinely did not understand, in material terms. They did manage to remove reincarnation around 600AD to replace it with the concepts of "heaven" and "hell" in order to exert more control over the masses.

Some of the original teachings still exist today, much of the Gospel of St. John survives in its original form, because the church simply did not understand it at all. Apart from that, we sill have the original works from the Gnostics, Essenes, Nag Hamadi and so on.

The church is on borrowed time now, the truth cannot be suppressed much longer as we are increasingly seeing in this new era.

With best regards,


Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: pod3 on June 21, 2003, 01:10:21
I'm a Christian who agrees with Kuhl! Always ask for chapter, verse, concordance, AND historical reference; no loudmouth is ever willing to explain the precise difference between "witchcraft" and miracles, but there is a passage, I believe in Timothy, which commands us to do stuff like raising the dead to get the attention of the heathen. Remember Moses' wizards' dule with the magi of the Egyptian court?

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Nay on June 21, 2003, 03:44:17
Originally posted by GTP

You guys just don't get it do you. Oh well, we all grow.

That sounds like something SpiritGurl would say..[:O]
Are you saying you are the ONLY one to get it?  and eventually we will grow and get it?  I don't think God works differently for different people..Different people work differently for God.  God doesn't run our lives. And how you choose to live it is up to you. Like Kuhl said, he gave man free will.

Nay. [;)]

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Kuhl on June 21, 2003, 04:17:47
Adrian I just loved your post.  Have you ever heard of Jesus having a twin brother?  I think its in Gnostic texts?  Towards the end of "Ancient Teachings for Beginners"  the author writes about his experience's in the Akashic records and about a previous life he had as Matthew's grandson.  He supports most of the evidence very well obviously not the information from the Records.  It seems Jesus may have never been crusified at all and lived to be 109(?) which supported evidence is leaning towards here in the realworld.  May have had several children.

Also because you are very knowledgable, Adrian, and it just came to mind, any idea of the foo-fighters during WWII?  Kind of a strange question but thought "what the heck?".

Oh and I think it was 533 AD when reincarnation was removed from Christianity.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: neg removal5 on June 21, 2003, 06:23:41
Hi Person
     The first thing to keep in mind is that the world of human beings as a collective of entites that were created by God are still learning and have many things to learn.  The world of human beings (most human beings that is, and especially most scientific and medical establishments) right now are like a baby that has just been born when it comes to understanding the realities of the spiritual realm and such things as Angels and "negs", and how to counter "negs".  

    To give you an example, I researched the history of medicine.  Do you know that not so many years ago that the so-called experts (medical that is) killed the founding president of the United States, George Washington.  One day George Washington was out riding his horse and caught a cold.  During his lifetime medicine and the experts still held to some wild and crazy beliefs.  They believed that by letting the blood out of a person (called bloodletting) that you could cure humans of many illnesses or diseases.  They bled George Washington to death over a common cold.
The first person that told the experts in london that creatures existed that couldn't been seen with the human eyes was ridiculed and laughed at by the experts.  However, they soon quit laughing when the scientist showed them magnifying glasses of a certain type which showed these creatures that humans had never seen or known existed before that time.

So the lesson from all this is take any experts with a grain of salt.  The world still has a lot to learn, especially in the area of the spiritual realm, and lifeforms in the spiritual realm.

Christians are not exempt from this area either.  Christians still have a lot to learn about the realities of the spiritual realm, and about a lot of the different things that make up a human being entity.  

There is only one for sure proof that the Christian faith can offer someone to prove to them that Jesus Christ and Christianity are the one true revelation from God.  That one proof is the gift of the "Holy Spirit".

If you want to know if Christianity is true or not.  Ask a lot of people what or who the "Holy Spirit" is.  This is my understanding of the Holy Spirit to give you something to start with.  The Holy Spirit is one of the three memebers of the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.  When God the Son, Jesus Christ, left this Earth He told those who believed in him that once He left the Earth that He would send them the gift of the "Holy Spirit", and that it was not only to his friends the apostles, but to all those who would believe in him from generation to generation could receive the gift of the "Holy Spirit".  

So what or who is the Holy Spirit?  And what did Jesus mean when he said that those who would believe could receive the gift of the "Holy Spirit"?  First to answer this we must realize that God is Spirit, in a similar way that we are spirit.  God also has a personality in a similar way that we have a personality.  God also has a full range of feelings and emotions in the same way that we have a full range of feelings and emotions.  We actually got our range of feelings and emotions from God and his makeup.  We need to also realize that God is capable of duplicating himself, and allowing his actual "Spirit being" to come and live inside with a human being's "spirit being".  

God has chosen to implement this duplication process with the member of the Trinity known as God the Holy Spirit.  There is no other religion or belief system in the world to day where this happens and actually takes place except in Christianity, which gives a unbelievably strong validity that Christiantiy is the true revelation of God in this world.  The Holy Spirit being comes and lives inside the spirit of the human beings spirit and dwells with the human being and makes his home with the human being.  The Holy spirit has God's personality as he is God, so God's personality is also living in that human's spirit with the human.  The Holy Spirit can also communicate with the human being that he is within and can lead and guide him, and even warn him when danger is close.  The Bible even says and verifies that the Holy Spirit will do these things in the spirit of a human being.

The human being will also know that another entity is living inside of him.  It's impossible to not feel the Creator of the Universe when he enters into your spirit, and makes his home and communes with you.  In reality probably about only 65% of all Christians who claim to be Christians actually have the Holy Spirit in them.  The reason for this is that the Holy Spirit respects a persons free will, and will not ever enter into a man or woman unless they truly change their ways, and truly ask God into their lives.  Many claim to be Christians but have not truly changed their ways, and so have not received the Holy Spirit yet.  God knows those that are really sincere, and will not enter into a person until they are sincere and really want him.

Many Christians that you encounter today can truthfully tell you that there is another Being living inside them, who actually talks to them, comforts them, and leads them and helps guide them through life.  Those Christians are either crazy and story tellers, or they have really found the truth and the true God.  

Is the being that is in such a large number of these Christians the actual Creator of the Universe?  Does the Creator of the Universe actually want to have that kind of intimate and personal relationship with each human being if possible?

I don't care what anyone says.  Anyone who doesn't have the Holy Spirit in them does not yet know God in the way that God wants them to know him, and in the way that God desires to know us.  Anyone that has not yet discovered the truth of the Bible's Being called the "Holy Spirit", may claim to know God in some way or in some certain way, but in the way they claim to know him, they have still fallen short of the way God desires for them to know him, and the way that God desires to know us.

Because this world is such a confusing world God knows that not every human being will come to know him the way God desires they would know him through personal spirit to spirit communion (Indwelling of Holy Spirit). But God honors the faithfulness of all men to their religions.  So when men or women die in a particular religion or belief system, that has no possibility or avenue to God's being coming and indwelling with their being, God respects the fact that those men and women were faithful to their particular religion and reveals Himself to them when they pass away and enter the spiritual realm giving these different people an opportunity to accept him at that time, and enter into communion with his spirit at that time.  

    Hope this information was helpful from the Christian Perspective

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: imora on June 21, 2003, 06:56:40

I'm not a Christian.  That doesn't mean I don't believe in Jesus.  I do.  I just don't belong in the organization.  According to your belief, I don't have the Holy Spirit inside?  You know you're right.  I don't.  And you do?  That's great! I'm glad for you.
But you know what?  I have a simple question for you.  Why would God discriminate between believers and non-believers of God?

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Kuhl on June 22, 2003, 05:07:49
Well it seems the easiest thing for God to do would be to reveal himself to all.  But He gave us freewill and with this we choose whether or not we choose to except Him into our lives and even the Holy Spirit.

Althought I believe in the Holy Spirit I think it may be something slightly different than what neg_removal says.  The people in the Bible didn't always know that they had energy centers in their body and spirit guides/angels all around them.  I think often times when they experienced the Holy Spirit it was due to a sudden sensitivity and/or a gradual/birth given gift.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: no_leaf_clover on June 22, 2003, 05:28:54
if god was going to give us free will, it wouldn't be so we would have a choice in whether or not we believe in him. that seems a little hard to believe. if that was the case, he would understand how we atheists seem him as not existing and give *us* proof. i'm not going to believe in something from faith alone. pure, blind faith? pfft.. why dont you just believe in all religions to assure yourself a spot at least somewhere? god would understand where us atheists are coming from if he existed or cared for such things, and give us a sign, too. but he doesn't. there are no signs for anyone. you just go on pure faith. faith with nothing but old biased books to back it up.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: neg removal5 on June 22, 2003, 07:15:53
Hi everyone

   I'm going to kind of throw a wrench into everything here, and really get us thinking about some different possible concepts.  

First off in reply to imora, if a person doesn't have the Holy Spirit in them from the Christian's perspective that is not necessarily good or bad.  And I did not specifically say whether I had the Holy Spirit being in me or not.  The main point I was trying to get across was that I honestly believe that if there is a God, He is going to earnestly and sincerely try to find a way to establish personal to personal communion with His offspring.  He is going to try to do this through some kind of supernatural, over time, revelation of Himself to mankind (such as Christianity), and kind of throw out a net and hopefully seek to find and establish personal relations with as many of his human offpring as He can in this confused world, whether some of the other human offspring ever perceive His revelation or not.

God wishes they all would, but the facts are that some, because this world is so confusing, will not find the spirit to spirit indwelling communion with Him (Christian perspective, Holy Spirit) while they are living their lives on the Earth, but will only eventually find it after they pass away and enter the spiritual realm, and escape the confusion of this world, and for the first time encounter their Creator face to face with no confusion around them.

Now in reply to Kuhl.  I hold a unique view in response to energy and spiritual guides, and how the knowledge of that information is going to come into play with Christians.  I actually believe there are Holy Angels who are indwelled by the Holy Spirit, just like some humans are.  I also believe there are the Fallen Angels and that they have an entire network and organization that extends throughout the spiritual realm and astral planes.  There is only one way a human being who is astral projecting can know for sure whether some of the Angels (guides) he is encountering are of God or not, and that is by that human being having the Holy Spirit Being in them, and the Holy Spirit telling that human being which entities are with God and which entities are not with God, but may be masquerading as good entities when they are not.  If a human being does not have the Holy Spirit being in him, he can only guess and hope that certain entities may be of God but not know absolutely for sure.  He or she can only go on her intuition in that situation, but intuition can sometimes be wrong.  It's not always right all of the time.  

I believe in the future that there will start to be many Holy Spirit filled Christians astral projecting and exploring the spiritual and astral realms, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit being, for the benefit and protection of other humans.  Right now that is not really going on, as most Christians are still behind on the times when it comes to the astral realms and spiritual realms, and many think it is to new age to be checked out.  But that is where the Christians are incorrect, because the world is going to keep moving forward every day and learning newer and newer things.  Christians must keep up with the pace of technology and the advancements of the world.

Right now there are probably few Holy Spirit filled Christians who have ever astral projected intentionally.  But in the future that is going to change.  Christians are also going to begin to learn a lot more about "negs" and how to counter them, and techniques for forcing them out of humans that they may be trying to harm.

In a way if Christians really do have the one true God of the Universe living in them (Holy Spirit being), then in the future the Christians are going to move into a new role for the benefit of mankind.  That new role is helping all humans map out the astral planes and spiritual planes, and once for all reveal the entities that are in those realms that are of God and doing God's work, from the entities that masquerade as Good entities or God's angels, but in really they are part of the organization of the fallen angels.  

There is no better guide for human kind in the spiritual realm than a human being in communion with God the Holy Spirit who is helping map out the Spiritual realms for the benefit of all mankind.  Ask yourself if certain humans had the task of mapping out the astral and spiritual planes for the benefit of the rest of mankind, would you rather those humans have God's spirit actually indwelling them in communion with them, or would you rather it be humans who just have their spirit alone in them, and do not have the entity Being God in their spirit indwelling them also.

Right now most of the humans that are exploring the astral planes and spiritual planes only have their spirit in them.  This is neither good or bad.  Were not trying to determine whether something is good or bad.  We are trying to find out the "Truth", is there a God?  If so is there actually a way that we can come to know Him while on this Earth in a personal, indwelling, communion way,  Where his entity and being merges with our entity and being and we can share love with each other and even share our separate thoughts with each other while our two spirits are merged together.

Leaf Clover you are seeking proof.  Well the Bible says seek and you will find.  You already know how much God respects our free will.  If there is a Being called God who is capable of duplicating himself (Holy Spirit) and enter into each human who is ready for him and wants him, and it's going to be up to you to find him.  Each journey is up to each individual human being to make.  The journey to God.  In this confusing world God has already tried to get his revelation to as many of us as possible, he's gone his distance.  It now remains to be seen how many of us in this confusing world, can go the other half of the distance and find a personal encounter with God while still living on this earth.  One thing is for sure, and I will say this in closing.  When the Creator of the enitre universe moves into your spirit, you will feel it, you will know it, and you will know it is God.  At that point in time every man and woman will find the proof they need and have been looking for.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Links Shadow on June 22, 2003, 16:05:19
Hello everyone,

Well to start off I am not a real religious person, but I do believe there is some form of higher being that watchces over us.  I don't identify with any one religion as I take bits and pieces of many of them to suit my needs.  My logic in doing this is that every time "God" has spoken to mankind it has been to specific people who wrote down their interpretation of what he said.  Every written source of the "Word of God" was open to just as much interpretation as it was being written as it is now.  So in my opinion to say that everything in the bible or any other religious text is 100% accurate is a little presumptuous.  The bible is very detailed enough detail to get lost in.  I mean the writer of it had so much information to write down that along the way some details could have been left out or poorly written.  Making it near impossible for people know to understand the original message.

I believe that God, the Holy Spirit, or whatever you might identify this being as, is fully capable of communicating with everyone of us all the time.  I mean who is to say that little voice inside of your head, your conscience(sp), is not God giving you a little bit of help.

Here is a theory that I have come up with recently.  Most religions are the same.
How did I come to this conclusion you might ask, well I looked at the structure of spiritual entities in several religions Christianity, Ancient Egyptian, and Classical Greek to name a few.  

Everyone of these religions has a supreme figure that stands above all others.  In Christianity it is God, in Egyptian it is Ra later known as Amon-Ra, and in Greek is is Zeus.  

Next comes the underlings or lesser spiritual beings.  In Christianity these are saints and angels, in Egyptian and Greek these are lesser gods.  Egyptian examples are Anubis and Osiris.  For the Greeks you have Apollo and Athena.  Now in all 3 of these religions these lesser beings all had a specific task that they oversaw.  For example in Greek you had Hades god of the underworld, and in Egyptian there was Osiris also god of the underworld.  Similarly in Christianity if my information is correct saints are saints of different things sush as Saint Michael the Archangel who is the saint of knights and all trades related to weapon making.

Now for those of you who say yeah all of this is well and good but what about the fact that all of the gods take different appearances.  Yes this is true but in Greek mythology didn't the gods have the power to become anything they wanted.  And for the Christians has anyone ever really seen God.  Isn't god almighty and if he created all wouldn't it stand to reason that he could take any form he desired, like the burning bush.  I mean wouldn't God or any other deity take a form that would help the person they are communicating with remember the encounter or be soothed during the encounter.  So maybe that is why different religions have different perceptions of what God looks like.  Maybe he takes different forms for us all.

Any way thank you for listening to me rant about a theory that I have developed.

Links Shadow

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Nay on June 22, 2003, 17:41:09
What about tribes that are deep in the Rainforest that have not had any contact with any form of religion? (Religion as we call it in the civilized world)  Does God hold that against them and are not allowed to go to "heaven"?  I think the magnitude of Creation is far beyond most finite minds' wildest dreams or concepts.  I believe that we are pure energy made by God, sent by God.  And within each of us imbued all aspects of Mother and Father God.  Yep, I said Mother God...There are both male and female aspects that make up God.  On Earth, men and women mirror Father and Mother God.  Usually, men are more linear and work more out of intellect..hopefully, they also bring in emotion.  Women, on the other hand, work more from emotion..boy do I know this, I need to bring more intellect.  
I also think that the Holy Spirit is nothing more than the love between Father and Mother God, and between every human being. The Holy Spirit becomes so that it descends upon you as love, directly from God to you.  By calling on this energy force, it actually becomes a reality.  Does that makes sense? head is of the intellect..back to the emotional..

Nay. [;)]

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: jilola on June 22, 2003, 18:52:04
Ok here's a whole socket wrench set in the gear box:

God does not watch over us in the physical because the physical exists as our creation and we exist as a means to learn what it means to be an individual separate from god. We are of the divine spirit (ie. Holy Spirit) but are not in touch with the source within the physical, only in th astral if we acknowledge that there is such a source.
Angels, be they fallen or still working on it, are the other experiment, trying to discover the aspects of separateness while still cognisant of the divine source (for lack of a better word).

So there are, essentially, no christians, muslims, hindus or wossnames since it's all the same, only interpreted in a different context by people with radically different backgrounds.

God does care bu tnot to the extent of actually taking an active interest and as we're so quick to put it "watch over" us.

YMMV and these are just my thoughts. Your's are still valid.

2cents & L&L

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Links Shadow on June 22, 2003, 20:25:32
Originally posted by jilola

So there are, essentially, no christians, muslims, hindus or wossnames since it's all the same, only interpreted in a different context by people with radically different backgrounds.

That was what I was getting at in my post, that all religions are in essence the same thing.  They are all just different interpretations of the same thing.  The reason that so many religions have evolved in my opinion is that depending where and when you live on this earth you experience different things and therefore read different things into what the word of God is.

Links Shadow

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: jilola on June 22, 2003, 20:28:52
Yay, now we can play chess in our particular hell [:D]

2cents & L&L

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: neg removal5 on June 23, 2003, 06:25:23
Hi everyone

     I'm going to use Links shadow and jilola to express the point I'm trying to get across about the Being called the Holy Spirit.  Let's say Jilola is a human entity and Links shadow is God the Creator.  So Links shadow is God and has all the emotions and feelings that are also part of the spirit nature of God the Creator.  Links shadow then creates human offspring, Jilola.

However, something goes wrong in creation and mankind begins to multiply on the earth but they do it separate from their Creator.  So the Creator, Links shadow loves her offspring Jilola and wants to find a way to establish direct communion and relations with Jilola again.

Now the Creator can do something that Jilola can't do, the Creator can divide himself and enter into as many of his human offspring who want personal relations with him.  This type of relationship is not an impersonal type of relationship such as with Zeus, or Allah, or the Egyptian Gods, or other Beliefs.

In those relationships the human offspring could love Zeus, Allah, or their Egyptian God, but none of those Gods actually duplicated and entered into their spirit with them.  Not only did that not happen, but even their religions did not teach or show that something like that could happen.  Something unusal like that happening was not part of any of those religions, nor is it part of any known religion today, except for ONE.  That one, is Christianity. I'm not espousing Christianity here, I'm espousing finding where God has set up a mechanism by which he uses to introduce himself to his offspring and enter into direct personal relations with them.

If there is one God and he exists, first he would have to bring a religion into existence that even allowed for a personal relationship, where the God Being duplicates and enters into each human being that desires him.  In other words Links shadow as the Creator God would actually enter into jilola with jilola's spirit.  At that moment in time Jilola would know that another entity had entered into her, and she would also know that the entity that entered into her was God, the Creator.  From then on out Jilola would never be alone in her body by herself again for eternity.  The God being would also now be inside of her and her body talking to her, loving her, leading her, and guiding her.  The Creator found a way back to one of his human offspring.

Whether all humans on the earth will come to know God in the way God most prefers them to know him, and that He most prefers to know them is not likely.  The reason for this is that something has gone wrong in the world, and there is to much confusion and mixed signals in the world.  

I would like to leave everyone with this final question.  Do you think a human being would feel it if one of their best friends spirits came and entered into them in their spirit with them?  While there best friend was in their spirit with them, do you think the two spirits could communicate with each other and know and realize that they both were occupying the same body, and that they both were distinctly two different beings inertwining in communion in one body?  If you answer yes to that question, then you have answered yes to everything I have been trying to say on this forum.  Now replace that best friend with God the Creator's Being entering your spirit and body.

Here is the final question?  If you could feel your best friend's spirit enter your body, do you think you could feel and recognize God the Creator of the universe if he was to enter your body?

The thing about the Bible is that it gets you ready for that encounter.  It's a way of believing that the Creator has used to let you know something about him, and he uses God the Son as his door to enter into you in the description that I have described above.

In other words God needed to make an introduction for himself to prepare us before he entered into us.  Without any kind of introduction we may not know what being has entered into us, or where he came from or why he is here.  The knowledge in the Bible is God's way (mechanism) to introduce himself to us, and it's our way to let God know that our free wills accept his introduction and allow him to come in if He chooses.

Links shadow if you were God the Creator would you just go jump on jilola and enter into her without any kind of a way of introducing yourself to her?  Or would you try to create some kind of a mechanism by which to reach your human offspring, and then use that mechanism or structure you set up in the world to inform them of who you are, and show them how they can let you in if they choose to. God will never violate our free wills, so He had to set up some kind of mechanism in the world by which he Could introduce Himself to us.
Call that mechanism or structure whatever you will but God had to establish it.  After he established it, it's up to us to go the other half of the distance.

Everyone good luck with your journies in life.  If there is a truth and a God, I hope we all one day find Him.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: goingslow on June 23, 2003, 12:41:04
Nothing is more annoying than people who state things like "you'll all see someday when you grow up".  As if the natural progression to maturity and seeing truth is becoming a reborn Christian.  

Its so misguided especially the self righteous "one day you might also accept the holy spirit" that is if you finally progress. Or my other favorite "even christians have some growing up to do".. no  EVEN them?  I say especially them.. though thats not limited to christianity. Its any religion which sits by so smugly knowing they are the ones who have the truth and they're patiently (or not so patiently) waiting for the rest of us barbarians to catch up.

I feel like things are regressing here.. though its probably more of a cycle on this board.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Links Shadow on June 23, 2003, 15:11:28
Originally posted by jilola

Yay, now we can play chess in our particular hell [:D]

Originally posted by goingslow

Its any religion which sits by so smugly knowing they are the ones who have the truth and they're patiently (or not so patiently) waiting for the rest of us barbarians to catch up.

These two quotes reminded me of an e-mail my aunt sent me so I went looking for it and when I found it I thought to myself this might just fit into the discussion a little bit.  Besides we all need a little bit of humor in our lives, so here it is.


The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid-term exam. The answer by one student was so profound that the professor shared it with colleagues via the Internet, which is, of course, why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.

Bonus Question:

Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law, gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant, but fell short in producing a demonstration argument. One student, however, wrote the following:

"First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added.”

This gives two possibilities:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

Considering then the postulate presented to me by Teresa K. during my Freshman year: that "it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you," and taking into account the fact that over two years later, I still have not succeeded in having relations with her; then #2 cannot be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and will not freeze."

This student received the only "A". Gotta give this guy credit!

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: neg removal5 on June 24, 2003, 04:32:43
Links shadow

     That was spoken with wisdom.  It reminds me of a movie I saw one time.  This guy came up to his buddies and told them that he had found this girl, and that he was for sure that she was the one.  Some time went by, and the next thing you know he was no longer interacting with that female.  Not only was he no longer interacting with her, but he noticed another good looking female at a table at a restaurant.  He then started about talking about how nice she looked and how he wondered if she was single along with other things.  Then one of the buddies looked at him and said "wait a second", I thought you were telling us that the other woman you were seeing was the "one".  He then replied, "she was, she was the last "one", and that women over there is the next "one".  I hope this helps break the ice a little bit.

It would be kind of difficult to top Links shadows.  But what the hell.  Whether hell freezes over or breaks out, I sure the Hell don't want to go there, I wouldn't even want to go visit there. Paradise sounds so much better.  Paradise sounds so good that if you throw a couple of women in there, some guys over in the middle east are even willing to blow themselves up.  I tell you the only way we are ever going to get rid of suicide bombers is to take the harlem of virgins out of paradise.  Somebody needs to convince those guys that somebody wasn't telling them the truth.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: neg removal5 on June 24, 2003, 04:58:22
Okay now that we have all had a good laugh and have lightened our load, I would like to clarify some things from my more serious post.

I think Link shadow knows what I was trying to say in the post about the Holy Spirit.

To me it's not about Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Budhism, of Judaism.  To me it's about searching and trying to find answers.

The first questions at the top of my agenda is: Is there a God or Gods, or is it all about a big bang and evolution.  That's the first answer I'm searching for in my search for truth.  Where that answer may lead me I do not care.  If it leads me to Buddhism, then great.  If it leads me into Judaism, then that's great to.  If it leads me to evolution then that's fine.  If it leads me to the knowledge that there is more than one God, then that is what I might choose to believe.  To me it's not about religion, it's about searching for truth, and meaning in this life, and in this world.

However, I don't stop there, I actually believe through trial and error that someone can find the answer to the first question.  All they have to do is read up on everything that is presently out there in the world, and start trying things.  

Concerning the hypothesis of God.  If God really does exist and really did create us, then that makes me tend to believe certain things about God.  I figure God can't give us something that He himself doesn't have.  So I figure our ability of emotions and feelings must have came from him and be similiar to him. I then tend to believe based upon my own makeup that if their is a God He must be a sociable God who likes interactions with others and like's companionship, because those are characteristics we have in each of us.  That makes me tend to believe that if He exists, that one of the structures or mechanisms out in the world right now were put there by Him, as his vehicle, by which he can introduce himself to us.  

So then my next quest is to look out into the world and locate all the vehicles that exist.  I'm not going to give them a name, whether it be Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, or Budhism, because names are not what I'm looking for.  What I'm looking for is something that is most likely to be God's vehicle in the world that God himself has worked to set up so as to have a mechanism and structure in the world by which he can introduce himself to his offspring before he enters into a relation with them, in the type of relation that I mentioned earlier in the post discussing the Holy Spirit.

From looking at the different vehicles out in the world, what I've noticed about most of the vehicles is that they are only set up as 1) a form of knowledge, or  2) as way to think with our mind (a lot of vehicle options in this area), or  3)as a belief structure that consists of higher entities but with no way to actually have a one on one personal relationship with those so called higher entities (a lot of vehicle options in this category to),  4) and then I noticed an unusual vehicle - this vehicle claimed that an actual Being called the Holy Spirit was not only God, but it was a God who wanted to have a personal one on one spirit to spirit relationship with you not just in words or in a way of thinking but in a feeling, touching, merging, loving, comforting, and communicating way. It's a vehicle that allows you to have your best friend's spirit living in you with your spirit in the same body.  And it's a forever union.  If this one particular vehicle is real, the implications of it are that a person or offspring will now have another Being who both loves him and created him that will be with him loving him forever.

One last thing to keep in mind which explains why God must have a vehicle or mechanism.  God needs a vehicle or mechanism because he values our free will, and will not just go around jumping around into his offspring and entering into their spirit without any kind of permission from them.  And it's going to be difficult for God to get permission from us if he first doesn't find a way to introduce himself to us.  He can't just introduce himself to us in the same way that another human being introduces himself to another human being.  The only way God has of really introducing himself to us is through some kind of a revelation that he sends into the world, and to organize that revelation into some kind of a vehicle or mechanism which can achieve the objects that God is seeking.

The only other option God has, if he chooses not to form such a vechicle in this world, is to just watch each and everyone of us from a distance, as He will in no wise go around jumping in our spirits without our permission.  I believe God has opted to establish a vehicle, all those searching for the truth and answers need now is to find that vehicle whatever it may be called.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: goingslow on June 24, 2003, 05:38:34
ahhh inside the somewhat complicated mind of God.  Thats an approach.. of some kind.

I cant get enough of the going "slow" references.. hilarious.

oh boy.[xx(]

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: KP on June 24, 2003, 12:05:55
Someone asked Ramakrishna, "Where is god?"
Ramakrishna said, "Don't ask this, ask where he is not?"

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: neg removal5 on June 25, 2003, 05:24:55
Hey Ramakrishna

It's not possible to ask God where he is not.  It's not possible to ask him that because He's everywhere.  He fills this Cosmos, and he fills every other Cosmos he has ever created whether it's a Cosmos adjacent to our Cosmsos, or a Cosmos that is separated from all Cosmos all together.

But that is a very interesting question.  That is actually a very creative question.  I give you 200 points out of a possible 100 for that one.   You just caused me to think of a new idea about God.  God has been growing! Not in his essence because his essence has always existed and always will exist, but where He has been growing is in the increase in the number of worlds and cosmos that He is continuing to create.  

So let's look at your question again. Where is God not?  The answer to that question is He is not where he has not created a cosmos yet.  but soon as He does create that Cosmos then He will be there to.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: KP on June 25, 2003, 09:54:40
It wasn't really a question.  It was a quote from a poet.

The point was that God/Godliness is everywhere, there's no need to search because he's everywhere!  Every living thing, every non living thing.

If you can't see him everywhere you look then your eyes need opening a bit more, if you can't hear god in every sound then you're ears aren't listening hard enough.  But there's no need for a search,  because you already have everything you need.  Now, waking up is all that needs doing.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: neg removal5 on June 26, 2003, 04:14:30
Hey KP

     You have researched some of the vehicles that are out in the world, and the vehicle that you have chosen to believe is a "thought" and "way of thinking" vehicle.  In that kind of a vehicle, it's possible, that a person may close himself off to another "vehicle" out in the world which says that God can come and live in your spirit with your permission.  And it would be a reality, not just a "thought" vehicle or a "way of thinking" vehicle.  You would have a Being inside of you who is actually God's Spirit, personality, and perfection of Being.

It's a "vehicle" which believes in the reality that two beings can live in the same body.  Just like you would know and be able to recognize and communicate with your best friend if his spirit entered into your body with your spirit, so is there a "vehicle" out in the world that says a Being called "God" can enter into your spirit with you to, just like your best friend.  You will know that you are not alone in your spirit, and that something else has taken up residency with you.  What has taken up residency with you won't be the vehicle out in the world called "knowledge" or "way of thinking" vehicle, as those vehicle do not lead to another entity living inside of you with your own entity.  

Now even though God is capable of doing what I just said, even though he has some how duplicated himself and entered into one of his beings in an entity fashion way, does not mean that he is no longer everywhere in the universe.  Even though he has refined into an entity presence to take up personal relations and residency with you does not mean that he is still not everywhere filling all the different Cosmos.  The two ideas are not contradictory, and they are both capable of existing side by side.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Person on June 26, 2003, 07:27:01
Let me start off with the 'paradise is so great, just add some virgins and people will kill themselves for it' comment for humor value.
Sex is a sin until marriage.
Even then, it's a sin to enjoy it unless you're trying to procreate.
Adultery is a sin.
There is no sin in heaven.  If you manage to, I assume you'd be kicked back to hell.
Nowhere is it mentioned you can have kids in heaven, it implies you stay as you are for eternity.
Therefore: there is no sex in heaven!  even if marriage and kids were allowed in heaven, it's one woman for eternity.  the suicide bombers are in for a nice surprise.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: KP on June 26, 2003, 08:34:56
Originally posted by neg removal5

     You have researched some of the vehicles that are out in the world, and the vehicle that you have chosen to believe is a "thought" and "way of thinking" vehicle.  

You talk a lot of excrement.

My way is to try to drop thoughts, knowledge, to be direct with my awareness.  I'm going through a certain kundalini awakening right now, if my mind gets cluttered with thoughts - it becomes uncomfortable.  So thinking is not something i've chosen.  It's quite the opposite.  I'm focusing on consciousness, empty mind, no-mind.  In a zen way.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Person on June 26, 2003, 08:41:58
Link - great email :)  I got that a year ago too, but they'd taken out that last part about him not getting the girl.  How dare they!

And now the serious part.
Thank you Adrian and neg removal for the best replies I've heard in years :)  Neg, that's the exact kind of response I've been wanting.
I've been delaying on my reply so I could give it some serious thought.  I even attempted to contact this said spirit, but that didn't work out.  I do have a direct connection with spirit guides, however.  My question is, what is the difference between the two?  You said earlier the only way to know if an angel is of god is to have the holy spirit.  If you can't trust a guide, how can you trust the holy spirit?  For all you know, it could be Satan, right?  He was once the highest angel and could easily produce feelings of love.
Honestly, I find the idea of having the holy spirit in me somewhat disturbing.  If it's truely the God of the Bible, it'd be yelling over my shoulder, "Drinking in excess is a sin, Acts xx-whatever" instead of, a real example, "Don't drink another glass or you'll puke(guide)."  I didn't, and I didn't :)  I think it'd be more like a permanent parent than a loving friend as you put it.  And as for friendship, the only other I'd tolerate sharing my body for the rest of my life is a soulmate that thinks like I do.
Next issue... you think in the future more Christians will OBE, helping humankind?  As someone else stated, witchcraft is a sin.  Don't know where the broomstick came in, but what do you think the ability to "travel in the night" and spy really was?  Christians murdered them in God's name when they found this out.  Yes, the rules are outdated and Maybe the church will change with the times.  But who would have the right to update the Bible other than Jesus?  A perfect God should not make rules that in the future will prevent it's following from advancing.  I once told a priest of my first OBE.  He said the only way it's possible is if God was trying to teach me something very important.  I asked him, "How is floating down the hallway important?" and he was stumped.  Had he been clever enough to say god was showing me I'm more than my body, I'd reply that I learned no such thing at the time.  I was 6, I thought it was real! :)
If it's true God really wants a personal relationship with each of us, why limit himself to just one vehicle?  In that mindframe, if I were God, I'd perform a Moses-like event to every culture on earth to get the introduction out of the way.  Humans being humans would interpret a bit differently per culture, but all would have the central invitation to let God personally be with them.  Instead, he chose only one belief system.  Like someone said earlier, what about those that don't have access to a Bible all their lives?  Or the 2/3rds of the planet that strongly believe in some other system?  Strange for such a loving God to exclude them from the one vehicle he's chosen.  
You say God can duplicate himself.  Certainly.  Except the model of God I've come to understand is quite different.  God was once all there is, pure consciousness bundled with the highest of emotion.  Then it set out to understand itself.  To make a jilola reference, it's no fun to play chess alone.  So, it duplicates itself over and over, some with half awareness and some with a fourth, and so on.  The least aware perhaps being physical matter.  Then it sends bits of itself to inhabit the physical realm where thought does not equal direct action, and very different minds are forced to interact (as opposed to the astral, where like attracts like).  Every experience is interesting and vital to this god, which would explain the allowance of "evil" and negs to share the planet.  It also explains the common belief "God is everywhere/ everything".  If the physical is God's energetic illusion/ mindgame, it would explain the breakdown of physics at the quantum level and go along with string theory.  OBE confirms the different layers of nonphysical reality, all leading up in vibrational frequency to God.  
Sorry to sidetrack, but it has a point.  This type of God would not need to share a human body to feel connected, because it already is connected to everyone and everything.  It wouldn't insist on us Knowing Him or loving back, because both are valuable experiences and they'd return to the light eventually.  With this model, the best way to find god is to seek him (within ourselves) rather than searching for clues that he 'must have' planted for us in religion.
You seem to think of God as a person just like us.  It's very logical to conclude that, and he certainly must have all our attributes to have created us.  But what about the billions of other planets and galaxies teeming with life?  What about 'astral wildlife' and elementals?  He must have those too.  I think he's composed of so much more than we are that it breaks the boundaries of what we'd call a personality.  
You say Christianity is unique, and it is.  But voodoo also encourages spirit possession, though in a much different tone.  NewAge encourages finding your spirit guide and finding god within yourself.  Practically every religion believes in some sort of angel or guide, which is very similar to the holy ghost in technical terms.  

The usual disclaimer - these are just my beliefs.  I'm certainly not trying to bash anyone's beliefs here, just sharing my own and applying logic wherever possible.  It sounds like you're still searching for answers Neg, and I am too.  I'll keep my mental model until something even more fitting comes along.  But I still wonder, where does the holy ghost fit into all this?  Or Allah for that matter.  What is it about Christianity that makes people emphatically believe/know their religion is right, and think the best way to spiritual advancement is simply not to sin, rather than explore every possibility?  Does the Holy Ghost personally agree that OBE is a sin?  Upon random searching, I found some websites where people channel the Holy Ghost's words just as they would a spirit guide.  One ( actually says the Ghost speaks of itself as "we"!  Then backs itself up by saying that means the Holy Trinity.  If anyone can actually channel this Ghost, let it reply as well :)

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Person on June 26, 2003, 08:55:42
KP, I think you and Neg are actually agreeing in a way.
He's saying you're trying to reach god by mental actions alone, instead of I guess something more real and substantial like having God right in front of you for conversation.  In comparison to that, kundalini alone isn't much.
In the Christian model, it isn't possible to become god, or even get close, so having him 'there' is the ultimate.  You can think and theorize your way into a religion (thinking vehicle) but it won't mean much until you experience something.  But you have...
In the Newage model, raising kundalini and self awareness are paths to becoming purer and more enlightened, becoming more like a god every step of the way.  
One path "finds god" and the other "finds god in himself," so I don't think either is meant to be offensive.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Terry B on June 26, 2003, 12:19:48

Your post is very well thought out.

But actually, Allah is God in arabic language. Even the arabic speaking christian and jew call God as Allah.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: J-Man on July 01, 2003, 23:47:26
bonk this topic. bonk christianity.

more people have died in the name of christ than for ALL other man-made reason on earth COMBINED. MILLIONS of people have died at the hands of the christians.

thats right, this includes nuclear bombs, chemical warfare, biological warfare, saddam huessein, hitler, your principle, your boss, and al bundy. ALL COMBINED.

and im sure most christians dont know that. in fact, come to think about, they really dont know anything.


Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Links Shadow on July 02, 2003, 03:15:40
Originally posted by J-Man

bonk this topic. bonk christianity.

more people have died in the name of christ than for ALL other man-made reason on earth COMBINED. MILLIONS of people have died at the hands of the christians.

and im sure most christians dont know that. in fact, come to think about, they really dont know anything.


Whoa J-man have you ever stopped and thought that maybe just maybe you have been conditioned to hate Christians, and that it was not your own choice that made it a reality.

Look man I have no problem with you stating your opinions and believing what you want to believe heck this entire website was created for that purpose, but to come in here and use such defamatory language is disrespectful to not only the christians of the world but also to Adrian and everyone else on this forum that have spent many years creating a place where people could talk kindly to each other and explore what it is to be human regardless of whatever beliefs we may have.

Tone it down a bit show a little bit more respect when you don't have all the facts.  How do I know that you don't have all the facts, because no one does.  You have your beliefs which is well and good but to be disrespectful of others is downright rude.  I don't care what belief system you have but regardless, it comes down to the golden rule which holds true to everyone dispite religion or spiritual beliefs, "Do unto other as you would have them do unto you."

Remember the goal of this site is not to force people to believe certain things, it is to allow people to choose what they want to believe.  The bottom line is to be nice to the people on the boards.  If you disagree with someone that is fine just show some respect for their freedom of choice.

Links Shadow

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Nerezza on July 02, 2003, 17:27:01
Look man I have no problem with you stating your opinions and believing what you want to believe heck this entire website was created for that purpose, but to come in here and use such defamatory language is disrespectful to not only the christians of the world

I think the Christians on this site have grown accustomed to having their religion dragged through the mud. Besides, for mentioning Al Bundy, I forgive him.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Anonymous on July 11, 2003, 18:29:10
It's like this.
Don't trust the Bible because it was written by men.
The whole point of believing in God is about faith without proof.
a good God is good when he can do something and no one is sure that he did anything at all.
There is no right religion and it states in the Bible that God dislikes all religions except for one which is small and insignificant.

So it is all about faith and most people don't no what they are talking about.
Oh, stay away from church they are the most far off by far.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: greatoutdoors on July 16, 2003, 18:33:44
Person,Links, Neg and Goingslow, you make some really good points, and pretty much in line with some of my own thoughts. Maybe we should start a church![:D]

For what it's worth, here are some of my thoughts (and some of these I've mentioned on other posts).

It's been mentioned that we can't believe the Bible because it's written by humans. Uhhhh, hello, ALL the books we have are written by humans. Maybe there's a shortage of divine or alien authors because the publishers wouldn't know where to send the royalty checks... (Sorry, I couldn't help it!)

Has anyone noticed those folks in the Bible who do speak directly with God tend to come to a really bad end? No kidding intended, look at the prophets in the old testament. And of course there are the disciples in the new testament. Moses was an exception I guess, because at least he lived to die of old age. Seriously, does anyone get the idea that maybe it's not healthy to be able to talk directly to God.

Another question: the new testament talks in several places about believers being able to do everything Jesus can do. It also mentions the difficulty in finding the true path to God. I do not, generally, believe in "healers". Most of them are in the game for the same reason -- money. But my Mom told me once about a guy who just happened to be walking past when she told a friend after church that she had a really bad headache. This guy stopped and suggested that Mom and her friends join him in a prayer. They (about 4 of them) joined hands and he asked that Mom's headache leave her. She said it did, just like that. Then he wished them a good day and left. I don't think this guy was divine or anything, but I do wonder if he wasn't a true believer, and thus able to actually heal.

One thing that has always bothered me is the lack of miracles in modern times. Preachers will explain it away but I still believe that if a religion is real, it should work! Again in the old testament, there is a place where three altars are set up, two "false" and one by God's prophet(I think Isaiah?). God told him to soak his altar in water before lighting it. Well it still burned, while the other two didn't. Pretty clear evidence to me. But why doesn't it happen today!?

All of this is confusing to me right now. That's why I am getting involved in meditation, etc. If OBE happens, that's fine, but what I am looking for is some sign of communication. God didn't condemn Thomas for doubting, just said that those who didn't need proof were a little better off. I reckon I'm not that well off yet.

Oh, and to the guy who likes cusswords - get a life! [V]First, spewing hatred is not adding anything constructive to any issue. Next, Isaac Isimov has written that those who must resort to swearing to communicate are simply demonstrating their own lack of intelligence.  If anyone hasn't read his stuff, it's well worth the time.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Anonymous on July 17, 2003, 02:21:15
"About ten billion years ago, the Universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry."

-Douglas Adams

These are the terms I have come to with the Universe. What do you think this suggests about God?:

The Universe is always trying to maintain an equilibrium. This is achieved by opposites. The energy in the Universe keeps the cause/effect scenario going so that things don't fold themselves out of existence. This keeps the Universe in need of maintaining the equilibrium.

This is the Middle Realm, so to speak. It is the threshold of good and evil. Here, ALL is possible, MAYBE even the full conception of God (if you happen to be the right sentient interdimensional species), who is said to be so great that no one can ever fully know or understand him/her/it. This is one of the reasons why no matter how good you are at something, there will always be someone who comes along who is better. This may also be some part of our evolution.

Only through the truth can we obtain total and absolute freedom. Once we understand everything we can, we will be completely free. If we understand a great deal after this world, we will go to a higher plane. Otherwise we are left to the lower planes and must earn the truth. When we die, we will continue to learn about all that is, was, and will be, even if we get stuck in lower planes (which is of course temporary). We will be able to calculate the delta streams of possibilities in the future. We will be able to conceive and realize in one step. If we follow false paths, we are not doomed, but merely slowed down, for as long as we have even one tiny little piece of the truth, we can find out where it fits in the big picture and we will be able to figure out the rest from there.

I have come to the conclusion that there is no heaven or hell, only the astral world with its higher and lower planes. A loving father would not punish his children for all eternity because in a blink of infinity they made a few mistakes. By the same token, a good parent does not spoil their children by giving them everything they want. They must still teach their children about the mistakes they have made, and must temper their children into as fine people as they can. Therefore, just the right amount of punishment must be applied. not too little, not too much. Again you see the balance that must be maintained here. Time goes forward, and we must walk it like a tightrope. Too far to either side, and we will not reach our destiny.

Church is no place for spiritual advancement. There one gets stuck in rituals and repetitive all-purpose prayers which are not tailored enough to fit the individual needs of each and every person.

I was brough up Roman Catholic and left the church because I felt the emptiness there. I have since then advanced spiritually far more than I ever would have if I stayed there. The strange energy I felt from the church must have been others' fear of not doing the rituals, because I know it was not from God himself. It conflicted with my energy and I remember the feeling even now. It just felt wrong, but in such a distinct way that I knew to leave. I could sense that others around me did not believe either.

The world we live in is full of deceit and lies. It is our job to recognize these lies for what they are and cut away at them like a sculpture carved out of stone, until we reveal the truth for ourselves.

Nobody can tell you which path of spirituality to take, you need to decide that for yourself. If you sense that something is wrong with the path another is taking (i.e. you feel it's not right for them because you sense something of it in their energy that is hurting them), then you should probably express your concerns to them but let them make the choice for themselves. Don't hold them in contempt!!

This is all that I can recall from my complex memory right now. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Keep in mind that I had no intention of offending anybody, of course, with anything I have expressed. If I have, I apologize for my unwhitting blunder.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Anonymous on July 17, 2003, 02:23:24
Timeless! Good to see you again! Welcome back!

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: shorty on July 20, 2003, 00:54:34
Hi everyone!

My background:
I'm 17. I've been brought up Luthran, and have studied the Bible a lot. I read a book and found astral projection. Then I found this web site and these forums!

My viewpoint on God:
1: I believe there is a god.
2: God is everywhere, everythign, and everyone. this is most easily recognized as ether (all the energy we're all raising).
3: God is love and wisdom. There is negativity in the universe, but it's meant to teach and not to punish. Christians say that God is merciful, and Jesus says you should forgive your brother essentially unconditionally. If we're expected to do that, how can God punish? Makes no sense.
There's a good site on all this stuff that has encouraged the way I think. It's There are three books there at the top of the page. They are all good!

My two cents,

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Randøm_ on July 20, 2003, 03:36:02
My interpretation of "god" is much like Shorty's (in fact, I usually spell it as "ghod" to mark a distinction with the common name riddles in dogma that I don't support). To me, there are two extremes, some may call this good and evil, but I call it creation and destruction. Those who aspire to create or unite with a collective existence is becoming as ghod, and those seeking the opposite are catering to the urges of the organic or ego-driven, catering to the "beast" within us all.

I was a Catholic, but have left that political religion long ago because made no scientific sense and the interpretations seems so narrowly fashioned. However, I will never again be a "christian" in the normal sense (though I believe Jesus existed as a spiritualist) but, I read The Bible again after my change (using my own translation for words pertaining to the heroes and villains of the book). As a book, not using it for scientific or historical value, it actually instills very good lessons within its context (not literal quotes). Hey, it's a good book if read as a book, but there are better books, IMHO.

I have nothing against "religion", but nor do I have anything for it. It helps some people, there's no harm in that. The harm that exists from religion is what humans have done with it, and do with it even today. Faith is meant to be a personal philosophy and belief structure, not politics, and nevr used to impose on another's rights and liberties.

I do still have a problem with the book of Genesis, it seems that wanting enlightenment is, well, a sin. If that's how it was meant to be, then we're all doomed, lol.

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Radha on August 05, 2003, 01:32:34
As I read the interesting posts on this thread I thought of something I might "add to the tucker bag" as it were.  The western world, except for a few schools, has been relegated to thinking about God.  Intellectual this and that.  The Eastern world is the opposite.  They have always had as part of their knowledge and culture that man should have direct experience, direct conscious awareness of God...and that this direct knowledge will bury forever the intellectual maunderings of the so-called church in the west.
If you truly wish to KNOW God, join an Eastern school and forget the western church.  It will give you intellectual ideas but very little more.  I say this in candor, not rancor, as I myself have served until retirement as a Bishop in our church.
You can read about God in the Qabala...and what the old Rabbis wrote can be directly experienced if you train in their Orders.
You can know about God directly if you practice Radha Soami, for one example.
When we tire the moon with our ceaseless talk...God sets patiently waiting....

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Tab on August 05, 2003, 09:23:03
bah (

it's all there

blavatsky pwns j00

Title: Question for Christians...
Post by: Person on June 17, 2003, 23:51:42
This is something I've always been curious about, and have never gotten a real answer to.  I want to understand Christianity in NewAge terms.
Once I spent my day online asking random religious people to describe a religious experience that gives themselves proof of their religion, much like an OBE can prove a higher reality exists.  Many seemed a bit offended, and all I got was a coincidential "sign" here and there.  One priest described prayer as feeling like a warm blanket was put over him.  I've felt much more from meditation alone.
Once I was watching religious programming, and the host asked for the viewers to picture their heart as barn doors opening to God/Jesus.  I was bored so I tried it, and actually received a strong energy - but it felt like random energies, positive and negative, being blasted at me.  As if god was a collective unconscious idea we project our emotions to.  I asked someone about this and they were just confused, aparently never having felt energy themselves.
So, having noticed there are members here that are able to mix Christianity and a bit of NewAge philosophy into their lives, I ask, what experiences have you had, and what did you learn from them?  Please exclude the expected "I saw Jesus in a dream/AP" because there is no real way to know it was not a higher spirit trying to make the viewer more comfortable.  What does it mean to be reborn, in a nonphysical sense?  Does anyone talk telepathically to god/jesus?  Can you actually be "given strength, etc" or is it only a mental conception?  If you've been given "signs" and such, how do you know it is the Christian God?