The Astral Pulse

Magic => Welcome to Magic! => Topic started by: Lysear on June 28, 2003, 18:05:48

Title: The Astral Thought Relationship
Post by: Lysear on June 28, 2003, 18:05:48
This idea is the basis behind a lot of occult practices, to have your spells come to fruitition in the physical world, it must first exist in the astral. I find myself controling what I think more as I delve deeper into the mysteries!

Title: The Astral Thought Relationship
Post by: Fenris on June 30, 2003, 00:49:08
"idea is the basis behind a lot of occult practices, to have your spells come to fruitition in the physical world, it must first exist in the astral"

Thanks Lysear, but this is why I placed the post under Magic in the first place [:)] The question I'm more trying to raise isnt that this relationship exists and how we can use it, but what are the dynamics behind the mind astral relationship. While we know the end result, an understanding of the process could perhaps give us more control over this outcome than we had before.

best regards

Title: The Astral Thought Relationship
Post by: 13 on July 12, 2003, 02:01:43
Great question, and it has distinct practical application [:)] Forgive the length of the post...

For someone who can still their surface mind at will, the minimum effort is 15-20 seconds of total concentration to produce a thoughtform that has a chance to survive within the astral once the concentration is removed. If the creation is repeated often enough (10+ times daily), the thoughtform has a great potential for permanence after several weeks. When a thoughtform becomes very strong, through months of practice or through group effort (and especially when programmed to vivify itself continually) it takes on the quality of an egregore, an autonomous intelligence. This is an act of true Creation on the part of the magician, for which he is ultimately karmically responsible. However, the *strengh* of a thoughtform does not change the *density* on which it operates. Even the strongest astral egregores cannot produce physical phenomena unless they obtain and use matter of a physical/etheric density. Their usual route is to prosecute their will on the astral vehicles of humans, which once subservient can execute physical demands.

The notion of growing a thoughtform strong enough to become physical, etc is not quite correct. There is a definite process of manifestation in transforming a mental-density thought to astral form then to physical (etheric) form. At each stage, the thoughtforms can be stronger or weaker depending on the effort of the practitioner, but the devolution of the thoughtform into lower planes is separate to the strength at each level.

The mental plane is pure concepts, devoid of passion or emotional attachment. If I wanted to create a thoughtform in all three densities (which has best results) to, for example, project intimidation around me as a defensive mechanism in tight situations, or an offensive mechanism of my choosing, then I would start with the purely mental concept. This takes experience with knowing what resonates purely-mentally, and also how to trace a thought back to its fundamental concepts. In this example, it would be "I am feared" (or without the English conjunctive pecularity, simply "I-feared"). One would create this mental thoughtform by stilling the mind then thinking this thought, along with the purely-mental assocations of dominance, repulsion, power and safety. At no time would one indulge in the emotion of projecting fear, dominance, repulsion. All you are doing is creating the formative conceptual shell for the astral emotions, which in a way "implement" the mental cause you are creating.

The astral plane is emotion and more discrete thought. In this particular example, this is where the power comes from. After days of practice building the mental-density thoughtform, you would add to it the emotions of total command and power in yourself, and absolute terror and fear streaming out of you into any being in your vicinity, the sensation and knowledge that you are repelling them from any attack on you, and a supreme feeling of dominance in yourself. You would oscillate between the mental concepts and the astral emotions, strengthening each independently but at the same time joining them as a single thoughtform with dual density participation. After one or two weeks of regular practice, the thoughtform should be immediately accessible to the practitioner, requiring almost no effort to feel the full strength of the concepts and emotions. It is now his companion, available at will.

To transform this into physical (etheric) density one must bind the astral content to etheric matter. This is chiefly done through energy manipulation, condensation and then "wish impregnation" (an apt Bardon term). The most potent form of physical implementation is in your own body, so during your thoughtform practice you now add the *feeling* and sensation that total power and dominance flood your entire body, filling your head, torso, limbs, etc and every muscle, vain, bone, etc. With constant practice, your etheric body becomes saturated with this feeling. You then project this internal power outwards and make it translate as fear in all beings around you, that they involuntarily submit to your power and shrink back from you. You repeat this projection with eyes open, seeing and *knowing* that that effect is produced physically, affecting their nervous systems, clouding their mind, etc.

With repetition the mental-astral-etheric thoughtform becomes very strong and automatic. You would then bind the thoughtform to a physical movement or a word said mentally/verbally, so that it's effects are automatic when that trigger occurs. For example, you associate the presence and action of the mental-astral-etheric thoughtform to gripping your left middle finger with your right thumb and index, and from now on only vivify the thoughtform when you do that action. In time, it becomes automatic and you no longer need to add any strength to the thoughtform - its actions are immediate when you perform your action. You then go into a business negotation, or a rough neighbourhood, to test your work.

Thus, the translation from mental to astral to etheric is only possible when matter of the desired *density* is used, regardless of the strength of the thoughtform at a higher density. Humans are greatly feared among the lower astral realms because of their ability to act on all three planes simultaneously and thus use vastly more causative force than such single-density beings.

Your question about the creation of thought during projection is answered with the same mechanism. The thought is created in your astral sphere, wherever you happen to be located. If the thought is not of sufficent resonance with the sphere you are currently in, and you are focussing on it hard enough, you will be transported to a more resonant sphere. I have been in the Belief System Territories then moved to a "university" type structure on a higher astral location, and then simply through recalling the thoughts of a moment ago (BST-bound) was transported back to the same BST sphere, and through releasing them went back to the university. The only caution is that your astral environment will be subject to change based on your thoughts, especially for those skilled in total concentration, so negative emotions will place you in regions perhaps not to you liking. Regardless though, the thought you create while out of body is no different to those in-body. However, you cannot manipulate etheric matter unless you refocus on the RTZ, or go back in-body.

The example above is purely for illustration. I would never advocate projecting fear; Divine Providence would be disappointed that you had made the Universe just that little bit more negative, and your reputation in higher circles would be damaged. The same effects of safety and command could be achieved through projecting harmony, love and oneness, which Divine Providence would reward.

Also, you can condense thoughtforms into etheric matter external to you own body, such as a crystal, a plant, talismans, or the etheric body of someone else to aid in healing, security, positivity, etc. This is the basis for Bardon's "wish impregnation" in Step 1 of IIH, affecting the etheric and lower astral densities of food and water that one ingests with a particular desire.

Title: The Astral Thought Relationship
Post by: Lysear on July 12, 2003, 09:27:07
Thanks for that post 13, that cleared up a lot of stuff for me about our relationship to the astral, and how to create thoughtforms. I have recently been drifting away from ritual as a method of creating thoughtforms, and I believe that you just need to be able to focus and be confident in your ability. I suppose this can be labeled as "sorcery" in some mystical circles, creating spells with just yourself and no ritual tools.

Title: The Astral Thought Relationship
Post by: Fenris on July 12, 2003, 09:34:12
Dear 13

Thanks for such a great reply, that makes so much more sense. I don’t really have any immediate questions springing to mind – I’ll just let all of this new knowledge sink in. I’ve been intending to get into Bardon’s works for a while now, but I’m resisting the urge to buy any new books until I finish Regaridie’s A Garden of Pomegranates. University has my head in medical texts most of the time, so it can take me a while to finish a book. Anyways thanks again [:)]


Title: The Astral Thought Relationship
Post by: Adrian on July 12, 2003, 11:56:53
Greetings everyone,

Thank you very much for your superb contribution 13!

I would just add that it is quite possible for a magician of even lower levels of abilities to create elementaries on the Astral, and elementals on the Mental plane, and to endow them with sufficient "intelligence" to perform various tasks. This often done for example to create personal wards.

Beings can and often are created by people unknowingly by persistent and compulsive thoughts. The people creating these beings of course do not know about such things, but are certainly subject to the consequences. The most common form of being to be created in this way are larvae. There is however a much more insidious being that can be created by thoughts of sexual obsessiveness known as "incubus" and "sucubus" which are types of schemata, frequently, and erroneously called demons. Incubi and sucubi feed of sexual energy, and do everything they can to maintain increasing sexual passions in their victims by sexual stimulation. Finally, the victim becomes addicted to these beings due to the intense pleasure they derive from them, and the final result is a form of possession. The only way to exorcise these entities is to stop responding to the stimulation, and stop producing sexually oriented thoughts. If the victim has the will power to do this, deprived of sexual energy, the beings will disappear.

If only people knew how there thoughts and passions take shape in the higher spheres, and how such thoughts directly influence their lives!

With best regards,


Title: The Astral Thought Relationship
Post by: 13 on July 12, 2003, 13:43:08
Lysear & Fenris - no problem [:)] Glad it made sense [:p] Fenris, what do you think of Garden of Pomegranates - to be honest I found it quite monotonous and in many ways devoid of true Pathworking detail...just imho

Adrian - you are absolutely right about the ability of the untrained mind to create elementals and larvae through unmoderated thought. The problem is compounded when such thoughtforms, being fluid and mobile, affect many minds in a given area. Widespread character traits in areas/types of societies such as rage, lust, perversion, hostility, etc are in many cases fueled by thoughtform contamination. Seedy areas beget seedy thought, and sacred areas beget sacred thought, unless one is trained to protect their astral and mental spheres. As an untrained, and hormonal, young man I often engaged in sexual fantasies and had a nice host of larvae to contend with when going through purification. It's an education in the nature of astral force and how to counter one effect by introducing another...

As for incubi and sucubi, I have never encountered either so my speculation is purely theoretical, but from reading accounts of their attacks I believe they are more than mere elementals. They seem to have an intimate knowledge of the human nervous system, and are often effective without the astral or mental stimulation that would be present if they were elementals. They are familiar with the human sexual organs and the lower two or three chakras, and intelligently target and stimulate these to the point of involuntary orgasm within 3 or 4 seconds. This would seem to be quite distinct from the thought pressure applied by elementals, as well as the fact that their motivation doesn't seem to be to entrance the victim with their thought content, but rather to cause orgasm and feed and then promptly leave.

In terms of exorcising oneself from the control of elementals, the notion of removing the instigating thoughts is very good, as is focussing on the opposite thought (anger is removed by engendering love, etc). If a magician can accumulate and project Akasha, and is clairvoyant, they can also form a volt of Akasha and strike the elemental directly, instantly rupturing the astral cohesion of the thoughtform and removing any appearance of life or intelligence. The astral matter thus struck returns as raw material to its plane of resonance. This is beyond my abilities at the moment [:)], as is using Akasha to bind and punish other lower entities/manifestations.

Title: The Astral Thought Relationship
Post by: Adrian on July 12, 2003, 20:45:07
Greetings 13,

Thank you for your response.

My understanding of incubi and sucubi is that they do indeed have a higher level of "intelligence" than elementaries and elementals, and which is why they are identified in the higher class of beings known as schemata. As we all known, sexual energy is an extremely powerful human emotion, and also persistent unlike most thought forms which are transient. It is the persistent sexual obsessiveness by the victim which provides the schemata with a powerful and persistent form of energy. The schemata can also ensure a constant supply of such energy by maintaining a high, and abnormal level of sexual desire in the victim, until the victim becomes addicted. Many such victims will actually add more power by inviting the incubus or sucubus to give them sexual pleasure. As we all know, inviting any negative entity into a body like this is extremely dangerous!

With best regards,


Title: The Astral Thought Relationship
Post by: kifyre on July 15, 2003, 03:02:33
Hi Adrian and 13,

I find this conversation fascinating, and I'd like to directly explore the reality of all these topics for myself. Currently, as far as I know, the most practical material is Initiation Into Hermetics which I intend to investigate and possibly integrate into my current practices.

If either of you could recommend material balanced slightly more towards exercises than theory (if anything readily available exists) I'd appreciate it.

When people ask me to recommend material for "energy" work, I'm sometimes uncomfortable making recommendations because I often synthesize, append, and discard from many sources. I almost feel as if I'm going to mislead a person.

So, with the understanding that I will carefully evaluate recommended material on a point-by-point basis, read between the lines, and take everything with a grain of salt, recommend away if either of you wish. :)

What are some materials that furthered both your theoretical understanding as well as actual ability to produce results and discern fact from fiction?

All the best,


[Check out the sticky topics in this forum. --Mark]

Title: The Astral Thought Relationship
Post by: Fenris on June 28, 2003, 12:31:34
Hi all

Just putting some of my unresolved thoughts on the forum relating to an idea (and by idea I mean a bunch of fragmented unorganized things racing around in my head) I have just had. Perhaps someone has thought along these lines before or can point out where I may have gone astray, or help answer the questions I have. I would be most grateful for any input.    

If we consider how thought leads to substance within the astral by manifesting out of astral ‘stuff’, the level of thought manifestation within the astral is proportional to the amount of focus, and thought applied. If a thought is accompanied with the intent to create a focused astral creation we can make a thought form, if this is taken to a great enough level it is possible to create a homunculi, or a thought form visibly manifested within the physical world. So we have something of astral origin changing its vibratory quality to become more dense as it is given more definition by an intelligent mind.

I wonder what the influence of the mind is on the astral world, perhaps the polarity of ‘as above see below’. Is the mind of a different or higher vibratory quality to the physical reality and thus has more influence on the faster vibrating astral world? Or maybe this is not so, and the reason though forms become more dense the more they are thought about is because they are being bought down to the physical level by the minds slower vibration. If the later is correct than it might be better to not look at the relationship as the mind planting a seed in the astral and feeding its growth with thought – but rather the astral being receptive of the mind and reflecting it, with the mind having no say in the matter, beyond just being the thing the astral copies. And the more the astral copies it, the more thought it has available to copy, the more like the mind the thought/thought form becomes – denser.

Perhaps what may throw a spanner in the works of this theory is the creation of though during projection. Any ideas?

Also I’m finding myself trying to answer if this relationship between the mind and the astral could be used to create a change in the quality of the astral body. If contemplation from a lower level makes a thought denser, the idea of some form of initiation, for lack of a better term, from a high level plain could make the astral body exist within higher levels more easily. A reverse of the thought form/ human mind relationship.

Anyway I hope this has been interesting enough to share.

Best regards