The Astral Pulse

Astral Chat => Welcome to Astral Chat! => Topic started by: Flummox on August 29, 2003, 09:12:00

Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Flummox on August 29, 2003, 09:12:00
I thought this was the Astralpulse forums.

Or is it becoming www.astralpulse-zeta-pleidans.com forums?

Come on people. What´s goin on?

/Flummox
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Adrian on August 29, 2003, 10:03:33
Greetings Goingslow,

I was going to contact you privately on this, but as you have chosen to attack me personally in public I will now respond in public.

First and foremost, it is not acceptable to openly accuse anyone of starting a cult in these forums! You have absolutely no proof whatsoever, and further you are merely reacting to your own ideas and suspicions, non of which are reprentative of either the Astral Pulse, my own or any other members position. You are entitled to your opinion of course, and as you know we allow people considerable lattitude to voice opinions here, but I cannot or will not allow anything which is slanderous and is stated as a fact in very large letters rather than as an opinion. You have been allowed more lattitude than most members here for your often vociferous and highly provocative posts and attacks on people, as witnessed by this very topic.

Secondly, at the Astral Pulse I and the other moderators try very hard indeed to maintain the dignity of these forums for the benefit of all members, not just a few.I will not tolerate such accusations not only levelled at other members but also at myself, specifically being accused of "endorsing cults" while accusing other members of being "self-deluded". This behaviour is intolerable and is an insult to myself, the people concerned in the Mayatnik project, and indeed all members who voice opinions with sincerity. As a result goingslow you have now made your last post on these forums. Goodbye!

Regarding the Zeta, Pleiaidan, telepathic communications; I absolutely and completely support Mayatnik, Parmenion, Edi, Truthseeker and all of the other members involved in their project. I have already clearly stated my concerns which I did with complete sincerity and without trying to publicly avoid such concerns. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest these members where not in direct telepathic communication with the Zeta. No one raises an eyebrow when people communicate with their guides, many of whom I might add are Pleiadians, the reason being they are more advanced than Earth humans and can therefore properly fulfil the responsiblity as Guides. The Zeta are just such another race of beings who seem to  assisting mankind in a different way. There are many advanced beings in the higher spheres assisting mankind, it is one of their most sacred tasks to do so, which they do gladly of their own freewill. This is the way of the Universe, the higher always assisting the lower on the sacred ascent back to our creator. To claim the members who communicate with the Zeta are dillusional is no different to saying everyone who communicates with Guides are dillusional, and we all know communicating with guides is not dillusional and is not considered as such by anyone. Millions of people believe people like members here who Astral Project, Meditate, raise Eenergy and many other Spiritual disciplines are dillusional; we all know better! To some, those who do not worship God and offer themselves to Jesus are dillusional as we have seen recently in several topics. People who claim, without proof Mayatnik and the members with are dillusional, are no better than the creed and dogma or the church saying Astral Pulse members are dillusional for following Spiritual pursuits. The fact is, in this infinite Universe in all of its spheres, anything is possible, and we are advised the higher spheres and the abilities beings who dwell there are beyond the comprehension of most people.

The fact is we simply do not know for sure, but we should always give people the benefit of the doubt, especially people we know and respect, and until proven otherwise if appropriate. Most people here are intelligent, level headed, sincere members and all Brothers and Sisters on the path who can decide the truth of these matters for themselves, accept it or dismiss it and proceed on their own path.

With best regards,

Adrian.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: WalkerInTheWoods on August 29, 2003, 10:37:53
Until recently goingslow has been a pretty decent member of the forums. I am not sure what has gotten into him lately, but I hope you do not permenantly ban him. I think he does need to take a break and calm down.

There are a lot of different ideas shared on these forums. Everyone is most likely not going to agree. But we all need to respect each other's ideas. If you do not agree with a topic just do not read those topics. No one is forcing you to do so. Don't keep reading them until you get upset and angry about it. Accept the fact that everyone is different and can have different ideas.

goingslow, if there are issues in your life that are leading you to this anger I hope you can realize what they are and deal with them. Good luck.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Adrian on August 29, 2003, 11:14:34
Greetings fallnangel77,

Thank you very much indeed for your comments.

Yes, there are over 6000 posts each month on these forums and increasing as we enjoy more and more members contributing. These are all complex and far reaching subjects involving numerous perspectives, ideas, information etc., and which subjects are not unfortunately, yet anyway, considered mainstream by people generally. Differences of opinion and perspective are inevitable, but as you most correctly stated it is all about respect. Fortunately the level of respect between members on these forums is extremely high for the benefit of all concerned and it will assuredly remain that way. Also as you say, people have the option of reading whichver forums and topics are of particular interest, and to which they can contribute.

Unfortunately, when we see situations such as with goingslow whereby a member is effectively engaged in a personal witch hunt and starts shouting (in very large letters) "cult" and other accusations, and then follows it up accusing me of generally supporting cults in these forums, and other members who I know and respect as being "self-deluded" the line is crossed from acceptable to totally unnacceptable.

The most important aspect of this is nothing is impossible or out of the question. The days of attacking people who are not understood or conformist, such as the days of the witch hunts are long since over. The Universe is infinite and we are only aware of a small fraction of it in both the physical and higher spheres. There are unquestionably numerous beings, worlds and planes which are beyond the remotest comprehension of any living man on Earth including planets with advanced life. People who I know and respect meet beings from other planets in the Astral frequently, and indeed many are guides to Earth humans due to the fact they are much more advanced. As I also said, for people to attack things they do not understand or agree with is no different to to the church and indeed many members of the public attacking people involved in Spirtual, Metaphysical and Mystical matters. We all know this to be true. We simply have to accept the fact they have their own opinions, and one day those opinions might change as they see the light. As a frequent member of these forums, goingslow should have known better.

With best regards,

Adrian.




Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Nerezza on August 29, 2003, 12:34:03
Wow, I never thought i'd see the day.

But I can't say anymore. I don't want to be banned, yet.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Adrian on August 29, 2003, 12:44:13
Greetings Nerezza,

quote:
Originally posted by Nerezza

Wow, I never thought i'd see the day.

But I can't say anymore. I don't want to be banned, yet.



You need not worry [:)] It is extremely unfortunate when it becomes necessary to ban someone, and indeed it has only happened three or four times. It only happens when a member goes so far out of line as to upset the peace, harmony and stability of the forums and/or uses provocative or threatening behaviour towards any other members.It is unfortunate this last month or so has seen all of these high profile incidents. Lets hope we have them all out of the way now [:)]

We are all here to agree, disagree and exchange information, but always with respect for other members. No on should ever be afraid to express their true opinion whatever it might be, providing it is expressed with reason and respect.

With best regards,

Adrian.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Nerezza on August 29, 2003, 12:47:29
What happens when one is banned anyway? Is there a message at login, and if so, can you, Adrian, customize that message?

Just curious because there are so many interesting ways to ban someone.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: clandestino on August 29, 2003, 14:36:02
hi there Adrian and others!

I'm not sure I agree with banning goingslow, but I respect your decision as a moderator, and furthermore as a person who puts in a great deal of hard work to bring us this website.

I think its crucial that everyone here maintains respect towards one another in the forum, even though it is hard at times. Sometimes a person's opinion can be provocative, which leads to insults being traded.

At the same time though, the forum environment should remain a level playing field. Whilst I agree with Adrian's comment :
quote:
The fact is, in this infinite Universe in all of its spheres, anything is possible,

,at the moment, I'm concerned for the welfare of individuals involved in the matter under debate.

I'm beginning to see it as less of a threat though, because clearly Mayatnik is keen on providing information and being open & good-willed in general.

Here though is a generally accepted definition of a cult. Please note that I am not accusing anyone of belonging to one !!!

Rutgers University professor Benjamin Zablocki (1997) says that sociologists often distinguish "cult" from "church," "sect," and "denomination." Cults are innovative, fervent groups. If they become accepted into the mainstream, cults, in his view, lose their fervor and become more organized and integrated into the community; they become churches. When people within churches become dissatisfied and break off into fervent splinter groups, the new groups are called sects. As sects become more stolid and integrated into the community, they become denominations. Zablocki defines a cult as "an ideological organization held together by charismatic relationships and demanding total commitment." According to Zablocki, cults are at high risk of becoming abusive to members, in part because members' adulation of charismatic leaders contributes to their becoming corrupted by the power they seek and are accorded.

Earlier on today I was considering on giving up on astral pulse....but I think that wouls be a bit rash. As fallnangel77 wisely (!) says :
quote:
If you do not agree with a topic just do not read those topics. No one is forcing you to do so. Don't keep reading them until you get upset and angry about it. Accept the fact that everyone is different and can have different ideas.



have a good weekend !

Mark

Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Osiris on August 29, 2003, 15:09:10
Greetings everyone,

quote:
Each of us shines in a different way,
but this doesn't make our light less bright.
- Unknown.


Goingslow,

Go n-eírí an bóthar leat. May the road rise with you.

Yours,

Osiris.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: breeze on August 29, 2003, 15:15:59
goingslow
quote:

This forum obviously endorses certain cults while condemning others and telling people 'find your own way'.



This is a very important topic. In my opinion, goingslow was right to address this in public on this forum. To ban him because of that without giving him the chance to explain his opinion seems a bit unfair to me.

Adrian, I was wondering about your following quote:

quote:

You are entitled to your opinion of course, and as you know we allow people considerable lattitude to voice opinions here, but I cannot or will not allow anything which is slanderous and is stated as a fact in very large letters rather than as an opinion.



Adrian, I really have to ask you for an answer on this. I hope you don't mind it too much. Please tell us members of this forum why we cannot see you marking your quotes as your opinion, when you are writing on this new age subject. During my time in this forum, I couldn#8217;t avoid noticing that almost everything in your post I read regarding this matter was expressed as a fact, even the two replies you wrote to my own rare posts.

If you believe in this Pleiaidian stuff, I don't mind it. But please mark it as your opinion and don't misuse your position as an administrator of this forum. Anybody in such a position as yours should be especially cautious.

I have to say it, but according to my view, this whole Pleiaidan stuff is so much new age and new age cult that nobody can really deny it. Most of it is based on thoughts of cults like the 'Ground Crew Project' or the 'Planetary Activation Organization'. I really don't understand why so many people are believing in stories like the ones of Sheldon (Sheldan?) Nidle, David Icke and Pamela Stonebrook, who just make a living at the costs of easily influenced people. Ok, they are suspense-packed stories, but they are also brain-less stories, which are put together badly.

I recommend people who are frequent readers of their or similar stories to read a scientific texts for a change. There is a pretty good one about new religious UFO movements at:

//http://www.uni-marburg.de/religionswissenschaft/journal/mjr/ufogruen_main.html

To make one thing clear. Nobody, not Adrian and not anybody else needs to ban me, because of what I've written above. If it is not possible in this forum for a forum member as goingslow to address such an important topic, it doesn't make sense to me to be a part of such a forum any longer. Which is sad somehow.

This was my last post here.[8]

Greetings to everyone who is also fed up with this Zeta, Pleiaidan UFO stuff!

breeze
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Vallk on August 29, 2003, 15:26:08
Hi everyone,

I am one of this forum members who spent much time on MSN with Mayatnik.
When I read Goingslow's last posts, I could not believe it. A cult! Is this a joke?

Mayatnik is a teacher. He did not try to convince me of anything. I asked him for hints about developing my telepathic abilities and he helped me right away. He answered my questions and it was up to me to decide if I believed in this information he was giving me or not. In what could this be a cult? A cult is a group where people are not allowed to have their own ideas, right?

He interviewed me at first to see if I was ready for a "specialist" guide, but I also asked him questions to see if what he was talking about was related to my own beliefs, because I do have beliefs on my own and I'd run away from someone who would absolutly try to convince me of something that I FEEL is totally wrong.

And about the "chosen ones" Mayatnik refers to in his posts, to me it simply means that they were well trained in telepathic skills and therefore were "able" to get connected to the Zetas with the help of their guides. And who are those "chosen ones"? They are people from this forum who approached Mayatnik because they wanted to know more and learn telepathy. I know this term upset some people, but actually it simply means that their guides found them ready to do another step ahead.

No really, to me Mayatnik is a person with great knowledge who is always willing to help people. And I thank him for this.

So Adrian, thank you for trying to calm down this topic. I don't understand either why Goingslow behave that way.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: MJ-12 on August 29, 2003, 15:41:05
zx
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Nerezza on August 29, 2003, 15:54:24
Adrian, I've always respected you and what you do here, but this banning was a shock. I would have never expected such a thing, when people like Allanon trample through here regularly. But goingslow is banned for questioning.

The only "reason" I can see is that Goingslow said something that bothered a only a few people(powerful people), while Allanon graces almost everyone with his insults(the masses).
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Adrian on August 29, 2003, 16:16:46
Greetings MJ-12,

Goingslow was banned for outright accusing Mayatnik of recruiting for a cult, and then fuether accusing me of being a part of that process. He also accused Parmenion (who I know quite well) of being "self-deluded". Also read the way in which he went about all of these accusations which is very far from the standards we are accustomed to here. His posts were provocative and inflammatory as well as unjust.

Only three members have been banned before out of several thousand, it is not exactly a common occurence and one which is not taken lightly I assure you.

Yes, I said there is no reason to doubt the ongoing communications as detailed in the relevant topic because quite simply there isn't. If you were to doubt the this matter you would have to doubt almost everything which is mystical, occult or esoteric. With all of these matters it is for each person to decide for themselves based upon what they already know to be true and believe in. There are no absolutes. Your words, with respect, are exactly what the professional skeptics would say in response to this. Nothing can be dismissed out of hand in this field, all of the evidence should be considered first. The project in question is highly organised and ongoing. It is not a group of people simply getting together through nothing better to do I assure you of that.

This is a situation which calls for open-mindedness, not abject dismissal as would most people dismiss most things we discuss here.

With best regards,

Adrian.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: clandestino on August 29, 2003, 16:22:54
Gotta defend Adrian here. He didn't stop goingslow posting because of their different opinions; adrian said  
quote:
It only happens when a member goes so far out of line as to upset the peace, harmony and stability of the forums and/or uses provocative or threatening behaviour towards any other members.


If the moderators started chucking everyone out that they disagreed with, it would be a pretty crappy discussion group !!

ps...forgot to add this bit in..
Nerezza :
quote:
.....when people like Allanon trample through here regularly.


Surely Allanon's views are fairplay..., ok, I don't agree with him 99% of the time, but he doesn't attack individuals.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: timeless on August 29, 2003, 16:35:39
Dear Adrian,

I might as well be banned as well.  

I totally and utterly agreed with Goingslow.  I think this forum will lose a great deal of equilibrium if we lose Goingslow.  He questions where no one else will.  Perhaps the bold letters were a bit over the top but since I did not disagree with it I had zero problem with it.

I also completely agree with Nezerra.  I think that your personal experiences with Goingslow are shading your attitude towards him, to a greater or lesser extent I cannot say...but to some extent I think it has influenced your decision.  I would ask that you consider withdrawing and let the other mods vote on this.  

I also think that this is partly due to legal concerns which I do fully understand.   I would really like to have Nick explain this to Goingslow.  I am certain Goingslow will understand if Nick explains the legalities to him.  

Regards,
timeless
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: shadowatcher on August 29, 2003, 16:40:15
Yup...put me on the banning list as well Adrian...Because I dont agree with everything you say...
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Nerezza on August 29, 2003, 16:42:22
Perhaps a formal set of rules would come in handy, so people could understand why someone has been banned?

Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Adrian on August 29, 2003, 16:54:33
Greetings everyone,

I can only repeat again what I said before, he was banned due to making outright, unproven accusations in an extremely provocative way, and also for insulting other members in a similar way. Behaviour like this has never been tolerated before and will not be in the future. We have several thousand members to consider here, and we cannot allow just one member to upset the equilbrium and harmony we have always enjoyed, and members have a right to.

People know me well enought to know I am never influenced by personalities or differences of opinion, and categorically no one has ever been banned for that before. The three members who were banned previously all brought huge sighs of relief from every member who expressed an opinion. To say people are banned for differences of opinion is just plain unfair and incorrect as most members here will know. I have posted 1290 posts in these forums discussing all manner of topics whether I agree with them or not. As a matter of fact I am never concerned if people do disagree with me, everyone has an opinion, and everyone has the right to modify an opinion. The most important factor is supporting opinions with reasoned arguments. Everyone knows and can plainly see my disagreements with Allanon for example, but at this time he is still here is be not?

I willingly put alot of time and effort into these forums for the benefit of the thousands of members we have here, and I will never allow any member to compromise these forums by means of the behaviour we saw from goingslow and the others who everyone was so pleased to see banned at the time.

And Timeless, you know I respect your views very much, but you know very well my actions were forced as a direct result of his overtly provactive attitude not to mention the factors you mention yourself. For the record, I have only had to warn goingslow once before, and that was many months ago when he first joined these forums. Beyond that I have taken alot of flack from him, but never on the scale of the posts in this and the other topic.I would suggest you would not like to be accused of these things and in such a way, and neither would any member. Again, the integrity of these forums has to be protected at all times, and that means respect by and for all members.

With best regards,

Adrian.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Kazbadan on August 29, 2003, 16:56:43
This is starting to get very hot.

All of you are needing to relax. Get a bear and some pizza, sit back in a couch and enjoy a good porno movie![:D]

Ok, ok, you don´t want a porno movie, you want something better...with a few dollars you can go to a nice hook [:)] and you will fell better!

See some Seinfeld episodes or Third Rock From the Sun if you don´t want sex [this is impossible unless you are a woman....they are very strange and prefer talk about dressing and cloths and shoes...maybe they are the true pleidians or arcturians]



Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: shadowatcher on August 29, 2003, 16:57:42
OK, so nobody has been banned for that before...But why are you starting now? He couldve just got a warning! You are insulting goingslow by continuing your self-righteous crusade...
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Vallk on August 29, 2003, 17:06:42
MJ-12,

"PS. Vallk, do you think that goingslow should be banned for what he did? Is his point of view so toxic to you? If so, then one of you has a problem, and it sure isn't goingslow."

To answer your question, according to me it was not necessary to ban Goigslow. Goingslow has the right to give his opinion, but in a respectful manner. He has the right to believe whatever he wants to, but he also should respect other's beliefs.

Can you imagine if everybody on this forum was accusing everybody else of anything? If I read the post of let's say a guy saying he teleports himself  and don't believe in it, I am not going to write a post claiming that the author is a liar! I won't read the thread.  I am not going to stick to that thread to try to upset everybody who is interested in the subject. That's it.

Do you really find these words acceptable?
From Goingslow
"Paremenion. You are seriously self deluded. Who is this mediocre spirit you are chanelling. The way you talk to mayatnik "perchance"..and other ways you think make you sound more intelligent. You really think you're chosen for anything?"

"Most of the chosen people on that forum are seriously self deluded people who really want to believe they will have ANYTHING to do with saving humanity when all this darkness comes. "

Etc......
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Nick on August 29, 2003, 17:15:57
Everyone,

This post is similar to one I just posted on another topic also in this section, however after reading how this thread has developed, I needed to set down something a bit longer here.

There have been a number of posts that I've traded with goingslow since last Spring. I have always liked him. In recent months though, he has expressed anger a lot more, I don't know why but that was goinglow, he usually would come back the next time and apologize in his own way. Lately though, his disposition has become very angry, and while that is not a problem in itself, it becomes one when the anger is directed in such a way that it can hurt others.

His long post actually hurt at least one other member. I know this for a fact. Further, I'll bet it has hurt other long standing members I know of as well. This goes beyond differences of opinion, this is not having a disagreement, but more serious. This is why Adrian was forced to step in. Thinking it was personal on Adrian's part is not understanding Adrian at all.

You see with all of the people posting here from all over the world, there are bound to be disagreements. All that Adrian and the moderators are asking for is that each member treat each other with a measure of respect, even if we disagree. That isn't too much to ask is it?

In any forum, such as a courtroom or a classroom, there are certain rules of conduct. That's what makes things work. Critics should try and think for a moment how hard it must be for one person to manage a website like this. Adrian doesn't get paid for this. He does it because he believes in it. He believes in the importance of maintaining a site where people can exchange different spiritual ideas and opinions within bounds of good conduct. Does he get thanks for this? Not often enough in my opinion, more often he receives undeserved criticism and even attack.

Please think about what I've said, as there is another side to this, as hard as that may be to accept right now.

Very best,
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: timeless on August 29, 2003, 17:23:41
Dear Adrian,

You have no idea...how much I will miss Goingslow on this messageboard.  I cannot tell you how to run things.  This is your creation.  

I will state my opinion once for the record.  I feel that a lot of people enter the board with absolute attitudes.  Mayantik did not question his beliefs and presented them as THE TRUTH.  There is not greater absoluteness than this.  This I believe was the root of the problem.   Goingslow intensely dislikes absolutism as I do.  Insults must be apologized for and a warning is in order but there is a big difference between Goingslow and others who have been banned.  Goingslow does listen.  I did something similar to Goingslow with Kakkarot.  I gave Kakkarot a bit of a slap when he decided to call up demons since he felt he was not advancing.  I did this in the desperate hope of waking him up.  I did not go anywhere the extent that Goingslow did with Paremenion but that does not mean Goingslow's intent was not the same.  

Regards,
timeless
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: shadowatcher on August 29, 2003, 17:32:16
quote:
Originally posted by Kazbadan

This is starting to get very hot.

All of you are needing to relax. Get a bear and some pizza, sit back in a couch and enjoy a good porno movie![:D]

Ok, ok, you don´t want a porno movie, you want something better...with a few dollars you can go to a nice hook [:)] and you will fell better!

See some Seinfeld episodes or Third Rock From the Sun if you don´t want sex [this is impossible unless you are a woman....they are very strange and prefer talk about dressing and cloths and shoes...maybe they are the true pleidians or arcturians]


Actually, I think grabbing a bear while watching a porno movie would result in lots of scratches on your private parts...




Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: timeless on August 29, 2003, 17:59:59
There has been a tremendous amount of absolutism on the board as of late.  I can understand Goingslow's frustration.

Regards,
timeless
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: SeekingAnsers on August 29, 2003, 18:01:10
Well said nick, That is the way it is.....

Thanks Adrian great site, Big Heart-dispite what a few may think.

Love and Light
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: MJ-12 on August 29, 2003, 18:16:38
zxc
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Osiris on August 29, 2003, 18:22:56

Greetings Shadowatcher,

I do understand what your feel. However using emotional language will not help to spread message across.

It`s would much better to express opinion free from bias.

So one can related to the actual facts as opposed to a feelings or beliefs.

Nick

As to regards to your question  
quote:
Look at what I've said here and in the goingslow thread about crossing the line, and ask yourself what you would do
, I would gather the facts, then invite the person in question to explain himself publicly.

Yours,

Osiris.

Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Vallk on August 29, 2003, 18:53:07
Adrian,
I wish to say that I am sorry to see many immature comments here about you. I suggest that you don't pay attention to them.

Anyway, I think you do a great job. Most people here are grateful to you.

Thank's!
(Let's hope they'll grow)

Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Tisha on August 29, 2003, 19:58:00
Before folks freak out too much there is something y'all need to know.  Oftentimes, when working with an individual, there is a lot going on behind the scenes that NO ONE ELSE KNOWS ABOUT.  Like, private messages, remember!  

Except in extreme cases, moderators will try to work with an Astralpulse member for awhile before deciding to block their screen name.  So before you jump all over a moderator for "banning" someone, please remember that it is almost 100% likely that you don't know the whole story.

Not to say there was a whole lot of behind the scenes work with this individual, because I don't know the whole story myself.  But I've seen Adrian at work for a long time now and am inclined to let this issue rest for now.  Goingslow can come back after he's had a long, long nap and is less chronically crabby and abusive.  

Remember folks, there are better ways to disagree, and there are worse ways.  The best way is to remain respectful, no matter how much you disagree with someone. Please check the sticky on "how to undo the damage."

Thanks -
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Links Shadow on August 29, 2003, 21:04:26
quote:
Originally posted by timeless

I think Mayatnik should apologize for his extremism and his absolutism.  They create disharmony and disequalibrium.


I mean no disrespect to anyone but I have to agree with timeless in that there has been an increase in the number of posts stating things in a way that makes it seem as if the poster is "right".  The discussions on these boards are based on topics of which we have minimal knowledge, so for one of us to say that we are right is just arrogant.  For people like Goingslow, timeless, and myself posts like those frustrate us because we believe that there are always other possiblities, no better, no worse, just different.  I did not see the post which put Goingslow over the edge and honestly I don't really care to.  I trust Adrian's judgement.  To keep a site of this size up and running for so long requires some occasions where you need to try to head off trouble before escalates to the point of disrupting the functions of the site.

To close I will finish with my favorite quote which I hope everyone will think about especially if you belive in your "answers" or beliefs so blindly that you will discount all others as being inaccurate.  If you are that kind of person this is not the forum for you and I would recommend trying to find some other site to frequent.

"To know that you know nothing, makes you wise."

Respectfully,
Link's Shadow

made a couple of typos
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2003, 21:14:23
Greetings all-

I think, as this is Robert Bruce's site, that HE should be brought here and make the decision, since it seems that a lot of people are taking Goingslow's side. I don't know what Goingslow said or did, but I think that he has potential enough to learn from his mistakes. I have read a lot of his posts, and I feel that if someone were hurt by his posts, then it is up to them to say something to him to let him know, and why they were hurt by it. There comes a time in our lives when we have to stop worrying about other peoples' opinions about us and worry about what we are here for. I choose not to have opinions about anybody here because I have seen posts from every person that I agree and disagree with.

Bruce Lee: "Anger should be expressed; any anger that is not coming out, flowing freely, will turn into sadism, power drive, stammering, and other means of torturing."

Goingslow had every right in the world to express his anger. Why anybody would put themselves below him as a subservient being is beyond me. This is why people get hurt, much of the time. They think of themselves as lessers. What I see here are two personal problems colliding with each other in a caucophonous way. Anger should be expressed, but how you express it is what makes it good or bad.

Has anybody bothered to address this issue BEFORE Goingslow was banned? Has anybody bothered to sit down, think, and put it into words? Private messages are not good enough to send to people like that. He is not the first and will not be the last. What should've been done, that I did not see done (PLEASE correct me if I am wrong), is someone posting something and addressing this issue, being blunt and to the point- no run-arounds. The only way to fix any issue is to address it directly, and determine the best way to solve it.

That's all I am going to say. I do not know what Goingslow said or did to hurt this other person, but whatever the case may be, he is going to be that way until he learns of a better way. He's insulted me too, directly, bluntly, but just like in any chat room, you can't let that ruin your conversations or nature of being. Let the insults go. This site is not heaven. If you need spiritual healing, then pray to whatever diety you believe in.

As the Zen say, the problem is that there is no problem. If only people would realize that. (yes, I realize by saying this that it implies I am taking Goingslow's side, which is not necessarily the case. I would just like to know the how the decision was reached to ban him; in other words, what was the process of determination of that decision).
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Links Shadow on August 29, 2003, 21:21:29
quote:
Originally posted by EnderWiggin
Goingslow had every right in the world to express his anger.


Ideally that would be the case but that is not the way society works these days as I am sure everyone knows.  This site is personal property and therefore is subject to the rules set forth by its owner, therefore freedom of speech does not apply here unless the owner says it does, and this can be changed at their disgression.  Anywhere that people congregate there is going to be conflict.  It is just in our nature.  The way that we handle ourselves during and after the conflict is what makes society continually progress.

Respectfully,
Link's Shadow
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Anonymous on August 29, 2003, 21:49:42
Links Shadow (and everyone else)-

That's why I'm an anarchist, because if you disagree with what the government says or what others say who have power, they punish you. I don't believe that the government or any system can ever be a good thing. The only reason that people, without a government, would be in total and utter chaos is because the government made them that way- They are DEPENDENT on the government because without the government, they would have to think for themselves. Goingslow would disagree with me here. However, I feel that following man's laws in order to achieve "equilibrium" is a false paradise. There can be no such thing on earth. Nowhere, not even this forum, is safe. There is a great spirit-war taking place right now, as previously mentioned by Allanon (who I happen to see a lot of potential in, by the way). You'll see it even within this very post. Look at it carefully. All this because we follow a human's words as law or rules to follow. The only exception that can ever be made to this is Jesus, as his words are infallable. We can't even trust the Bible, as it was written by man. Maybe not everyone thinks of him as our savior, and maybe we can't trust the Bible, but I am sure that if people who were intelligent and wise enough to understand what He was saying went back and listened to Him speak, they would come back dramatically enlightened.

Goingslow's banning has more to do with the spirit-war than anything else. Look around you and you will see it- everywhere in society. The evidence is undeniable. Try to work with the system and it will screw you. It screwed my mother, who at one time was single with two children (me and one of my brothers). She got $80 a week for BOTH of us, not EACH of us. What is she supposed to buy us with that? Everything is so expensive. Racism against the Arab world is on the rise in this country at least. There is already racism against different ethnic groups in other countries, many of which are in Africa. Don't forget about the Palestinians and the Jews.

I am not trying to be political here but this is what's going on in the world, and we can't run from it. Horrible things are happening all around us, and the only way to stay cool is to be like water. Flow with existence, but don't change your composition for it.

Bruce Lee: "Emptiness cannot be contained, and the softest thing cannot be broken."

Empty your mind of all preconceived notions, prejudices, and all previous knowledge. Only then can your mind be filled with the answer.

Bruce Lee: "The end of spiritual training- Not to localize or partialize is the end of spiritual training. When it is nowhere, it is everywhere. When it occupies one-tenth, it is absent in the other nine-tenths. Let a person discipline himself to have the mind go its own way, instead of deliberately trying to confine it soemwhere. It is the ONE without opposite, infinite and unceasing."

Even here.

All things come and go as time passes. The only permanent thing is time, and its constant change. It exists without form. The only thing that can heal an emotional wound is time. Remember that things exist HERE and NOW. Do not get stuck in them, because when the HERE and NOW changes, you will not be able to change with them.

That which is formless remains, as it can change with existence. Anything that is rigid and structured is destroyed sooner or later.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Links Shadow on August 29, 2003, 22:00:04
quote:
Originally posted by SeekingAnsers
(AND YES I DO HAVE A PLEIADAIN GUIDE AND NO SHE COMPLETLY DISSAGREES WITH ME POSTING THIS BUT IM TO ANGRY TO LISTEN BEFORE YOU PICK ME OFF ON THAT TO START ATACKING ME, I KNOW YOUR TYPE O TO WELL!!)



If you believe in this stuff so much, that the Pleiadains(sp) are so wise then why don't you listen to your guide?  I don't mean this as a personal attack I am just curious what you see the benefit in doing this is.  Sometimes peoples' logic completely befuddles me and I like to understand where they are coming from.  So please don't get angry with me, I am just trying to understand you a little better.

-Link's Shadow
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Squeek on August 29, 2003, 22:09:29
Is anyone else seeing how much harm we are doing to this place?  We have actually started a WAR over this...  When this happens, you know the situation has escalated beyond no means...

Everybody involved has already chosen sides, and saying things to people they NEVER would have before.  It's times like these we should UNITE, not DIVIDE!  

Fighting will get you nowhere...  I know.  I'm a moderator elsewhere (it doesn't matter where).  When we all become so enraged, we let our emotions get the best of us...  I can already see it happening.  This topic is sure to get locked, which will spur two more topics, then 2 more...  

I cannot let this place fall like this...  This is the ONLY place I have to talk about my life.  There is no way we are all going to be divided over this!

If anybody was wondering, I refuse to take a side.  I will stand in the middle keeping this war at peace.  By standing in the middle know that both sides hurt me, with every post, with every word. If you think my opinion doesn't matter, watch me.

~Squeek
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: SeekingAnsers on August 29, 2003, 22:09:35
Jue to my free will Link mate, yes i listen all the time but if you could see what timless post really said and your bestmate was the person with it aimed at then you would have been to angry to.
and yes it confuses me too!!!

Timeless should be cald Heartless
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: curiousgirl on August 29, 2003, 23:33:52
whew!  i really don't know what is the right answer for all of this, but i have to admit that i also have developed a liking for goingslow.  his posts always made sense to me; they always seemed to be very well thought out and logical, and enjoyable to read, and i found my self agreeing with much of what he had to say (though i really don't have much of an opinion on this "cult accusation" thing... i haven't been paying attention to mayatnik's stuff).  i have noticed that he's been pretty "pissy" lately, very angry, and it seems kinda out of character.  he stated in one post that his anger from some BS at work has been carrying over into the forum.  while he needs to work on his anger management, i think he's a pretty intelligent, rational person, and that things can be worked out with him.  everyone has their bad days!  i mean, heck, my beginnings on this forum was bad... my first posts i was distraught, emotional, frustrated, etc. after some previous bad experiences, so i came off sounding very rude to everyone, and people were mistaking me for a bitchy 13 year old girl who was a previous member of this forum!  

i say he should be given another chance, maybe start a topic where everyone can debate over his statements, and try to show him that he was being a jerk with the way he was making straight out accusations, and wording things so... rudely.  if he can see reason, chill out and be a good law-abiding forum member, then he should be allowed to stay.  but if things go on for a while where he persists in being a jerk, then the decision can be made to boot him out.  but this seems like his first serious "offense", and it seems he's having personal problems.... maybe everyone could forgive him this once?  i think his input on this forum is important; we need thinkers like him also, to provide alternative perspectives on things when it seems everyone is getting sucked unquestioningly into what someone says.  haha, maybe sometimes we need someone to provide a harsh slap-in-the-face every now and then, as unpleasant as it can be.  please try to work things out with him, everyone!
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Nita on August 30, 2003, 02:05:05
Hello Everyone
  This forum has always been open and non-judgemental to everyone. Lately there has been a disturbing trend. I have been wondering if maybe it is not time to add a few new rules. I have suggested it but the main thing I hate to see about doing this is it removes some of the freedom of this forum.
  I have read some topics and while some of them may not be what I would want to do. They still do not hurt people and do not call for a judgement from me on whether or not I believe them. Many sects of different religions and organizations have been called cults. I personally don't care if someone worships their big toe as long as they do not harm anyone doing it.
  It again comes down to free choice and thinking before you do things. The same advice I always give if you feel there is something that is required that you do not want to do. Don't do it. Do not let anyone assign guides, angels or anything for you unless you want to try that method. You yourself will make the choice of what you do and go through in life.
  Nita
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Tab on August 30, 2003, 02:47:32
politics
well, I can't be IP banned anyway, dynamic IP [8D]
I dunno what all this mayatnic crap is, but we stand on the most shaky ground in existance on these boards; that of religion. By necessity, we must partially put away or downplay to opinion our distinct preconcieved notions and personal beliefs. We must remain open minded. That ability is all that keeps us and the middle east from acting identically. The acceptance that each individual person has their own entirely different reality, that reality is not at all objective but subjective to the consciousness experiencing it. In that light, I suppose goingslow did become reckless and did cross the line. However, I also dislike all this "omfg he called mayatnkldfjd a cult omf omf HEATHEN" type of stuff going on. It's fine to have your beliefs, it's fine to stand up for your beliefs. But when it gets to the point where one person is making accusations against another and another is (ab?)using his power to ban that person for disrespectfully questioning those beliefs, then it has become out of hand.
We all need to think about what we're doing on these boards, what we're here for, and what we should be here for. IMO, that is our similarities, our shared interest in metaphysics, and the ability to LEARN from the different beliefs of others. And yeah it's like 5AM I dunno wtf I just wrote.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: chill on August 31, 2003, 00:32:29
Someone has had his true colors shining through lately (M. Adrian, the administrator, yes).

I still had not read this thread an hour ago.

Oh Valérie, your post made me puke. Will I be banned for saying so, you, one of the selected few ? I am sorry, it's just a physical reaction that's beyond my control.

I don't think I will ever post here again. It's become tedious. Because of how it's run. Yes indeed, welcome to the astralpulse.zeta.pleiadian.com forums.

By the way, Astral Dynamics is an excellent read.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Nita on August 31, 2003, 02:29:38
Hello Chili
  Adrians true colors have been shown for quite a while. He is the person who makes the forums work properly. He also reads all of the topics and has the rough job of the final decisions upon threads and peoples actions. He puts his duties first over any personal feelings or this thread would not be up here.
  I have to say I have never dealt with a nicer person who really cares about this website and the people who come to it. We all get to discuss things and give our opinions because of his work. Even when we disagree. People will get out of line when they are really upset over things which makes it where some people have to be removed. It is always a last resort. We should all be tolerant of peoples beliefs because we are the person who makes the choice in how we act. We do not need to read the thread or we can post our opinion whether it agrees or not if we do it in a normal fashion. We are lucky to have this website and its forums.
  Nita
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Adrian on August 31, 2003, 03:16:34
Greetings Nita,

Thank you very much indeed for your kind remarks and for all those others who have also made such remarks both publicly and privately.

I really cannot add much more to what I have already said in this matter, and do not want to be repetitive, but I would once again like to reiterate the need for open-mindedness and toleration, both extremely important principles which I support fully here at the Astral Pulse.

Many different subjects are discussed here at the Astral Pulse, most of which would be instantly dismissed or considered "crazy" by those not involved and the people involved considered to be deluded or even psychiatrically unsound. After all, if you were to tell someone such as a friend, neighbour, co-worker or whoever you leave your body ever night to travel in different dimensions of reality, they would well and truly believe you had been disconnected from reality. Yet we know the truth on these matters. Everyone must find their truth in their own time.

I would ask people here to consider this deeply when judging the work, beliefs or actions of anyone at the Astral Pulse. We have people Astral projecting, raising energy, healing, meditating, psychokinesis and much more, and more recently communicating with beings who are not of this Earth, but are widely considered by open-minded people to be very real. To dismiss or to disciminate against such people is to dismiss and discrimnate in all of these matters; the fact is you simply do not know; the way to find out for sure is to take a genuine interest, view what is happening publicly, and to decide for yourselves in an objective manner. For my part I support and take an interest in everything happening at the Astral Pulse and support every member to the extent I possibly can do, as well as to try and learn from others with open-mindedness and objectivity. At the same time I and the other moderators have to maintain the high standards here for the benefit of all members, particulary with the very rapid rise in numbers of members and posts. Above all, every member should treat every other member with complete respect at all times, no matter what their particular areas of interest are or things they believe in. These are fundamental issues, and I am most grateful to the majority of members for respecting them.

Thank you once again.

With best regards,

Adrian.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Birm on September 01, 2003, 06:03:34
Well i need to reply to this topic... I just can not be here and sit quiet.

I have an opinion about this and i want to share it with you. So i am writing this post.

I have the freedom to tell anything here. But why am i here? I am here to exchange knowledge. I am here to share my experiences and learn more about them. I am here to learn more and more things in order to improve my skills.

The zeta talks does not bother me. I am not interested. I dont believe them. But i had never replied to that discussion. Thats not what i am after... thats all...

Anybody may have experiences to share here. But can you tell me are they real or not. No one else but the author of the post can tell. Of course there may be liers... But who cares about them...

I dont need to accuse anybody. If i dont believe it. I am not interested. Thats all about it.

I am not here for the people. I am here for the knowledge i can get.

As long as there is knowledge in this forums, you will see me here.

I dont want no fight around me.

Enough said,
.
.

Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Syke on September 01, 2003, 09:41:19
I think the major topic here is open mindedness... i hear people calling Goingslow close minded for warding against this Zeta stuff (that i have not looked into yet so i cannot comment on it) but people here, especially you Adrian are being hypocritical by banning him for calling it a cult and members deluded and having a closed mind...
doesnt being open minded mean you must open your mind to all possibilties? like the possibility that Goingslow is correct?

So banning somebody for accusations and being close minded is therefore being close minded yourself.

there is no proof that these things arent real, but theres no proof that they are either.

i respect all at this board and i enjoy being here, so i dont want this post to have ill repercussions with my stay here.

its awefully late here so sorry if something doesnt make much sense

-Syke
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Adrian on September 01, 2003, 10:17:34
Greetings Syke,

Thank you for your comments!

quote:
Originally posted by Syke

I think the major topic here is open mindedness... i hear people calling Goingslow close minded for warding against this Zeta stuff (that i have not looked into yet so i cannot comment on it) but people here, especially you Adrian are being hypocritical by banning him for calling it a cult and members deluded and having a closed mind...



With respect you are missing the point.

It is not for goingslow to "warn" against anything. He can state his opinion of course as can everyone, but not state it in the way he did followed by insulting other members. This would not be acceptable in any other public place and it isn't here either.

It is for myself and the moderators to decide what is and isn't acceptable here, and in the meantime everyone has the freewill to read the Zeta project posts for themselves and accept or reject it accordingly. If the latter, simply do not read those topics again, it is as simple as that.

I would also like people to keep this in perspective. In the 18 months or so since these forums started we have several thousand members posting 55,000 posts to date on very diverse issues which are generally regarded by the general public as strange at best. Notwitstanding that, the members here have conducted themselves for the most part in an exemplorary manner throughout, requiring minimal intervention by myself and the moderators. Only three members have previously been banned, much to the huge relief of most members.

Please read all of my other posts on this matter for my full position.

With best regards,

Adrian.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Celeste on September 01, 2003, 14:26:12
To whom it may concern:

I too, think it is a shame that goingslow got banned from this site.

  I am very disappointed that this has occurred on Astralpulse. I never read the actual offending posts but I was glad that someone was questioning what so many so gullibly accept. <no offence>[:X] I might be mistaken but up until now,were not people warned if their behaviour was approaching limits that would result in a ban from this site?

 Given the obvious differences in personal opinion here, I'm not so sure that the decision to ban Goingslow was made in an unbiased way. It is a concern that in an effort to allow freedom of speech that someone else was censored-- where is the balance in that?

  I have some strong opinions about the topics in question which I lightly raised at the beginning of the "pendulum" tutorial. I just bowed out when the questions I raised were met by the launching of an extremely verbose reply--should I have stayed I probably would of gotten my *ss banned also.[:)]
 
  celeste
   
 
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: WalkingThePath on September 01, 2003, 15:08:04
Hello everyone

I want to remind everyone that there is a thing called MSN and there is a thing called chat too. So before anyone says anything about gullibly beleiving anything you should consider that there are a lot of discussions and questions answered there too.

And why does the telepathy idea sound so insanse to you? Why does leaving your body sound more "right" and "real"? ( i expect answers here, it's not a rhetorical question [:P] )

Malvina
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Celeste on September 01, 2003, 18:08:22
There are lots of abilities that are termed supernatural that are a natural part of our spiritual evolution. It's no biggey. Having abilities doesn't mean much, for example it doesn't mean anyone is spiritually advanced and it is always a wise practice to question or test teachers, spirit guides or pleidians etc...


  celeste
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: MerrillT on September 02, 2003, 19:51:33
Im new here and not out to be baned or make enemies but censorship is what I was trying to get awayfrom in my last messageboard I was a participant in. If there is something to hide there is somoene to ban. I,m glad I saw these topics now before i was to involved in the website.I think the pledians make people more angry and if real they make others exclude people who are not in belief. my 2 cents worth.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Adrian on September 03, 2003, 00:38:16
Greetings MerrillT,

Thank you for your comments.

There never has been and never will be censorship at the Astral Pulse. This, with respect, is by far the biggest misunderstandings about this entire situation. It is nothing whatsoever to do with the topics under discussion. Please read all of my posts here and in the other relevant topics for the full explanation.

This situation was caused by one thing; an extreme and unnaceptable breach of acceptible posting standards, standards which we maintain at all times for the benefit of this forum and all concerns. This in fact is what differentiates us from other forums; members respect the rights of others to discuss any beliefs and ask any questions on these wide ranging matters without any fear of being treated disrespectfully by other members. Accordingly, we cannot and will not allow the forums to degenerate by allowing posts such as those in question. Only three other members have aver been banned in one and a half years out of thousands of members, and those were to the relief of all other members. That in itself says it all.

With best regards,

Adrian.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: curiousgirl on September 03, 2003, 02:18:53
it doesn't seem like the banning of goingslow is to the relief of "all other" members... it seems like it's mainly to the relief of those who believe very much in this pendulum/alien communication something-or-other.  there's been much objection to goingslow's banning, even from people who don't quite agree with his views.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Edi on September 03, 2003, 06:44:22
Curiousgirl ...

quote:

it doesn't seem like the banning of goingslow is to the relief of "all other" members... it seems like it's mainly to the relief of those who believe very much in this pendulum/alien communication something-or-other.



... some quotes (I hope the persons they come from are okay with it):

Mayatnik (on MSN): I do not even agree with goingslow being banned. I don't think that is the way to do it.

Valerie: To answer your question, according to me it was not necessary to ban Goigslow.

I myself repeatedly stated that goingslow should come back.

Squeek: If anybody was wondering, I refuse to take a side.


Ask the others who are more or less involved of which I have no quotes  ready if you really want to know. Nobody thinks this is the solution.

Edi
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: goingslow on October 14, 2003, 14:01:24
Happy halloween people.  Dress up, have fun and eats lots of candy.  

Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: Squeek on October 14, 2003, 14:12:12
Hey G.S.  When did you slide back in here [:P]

Well....you better stay this time [:)]  Last time you left I passed you by 100 posts!!! (I care about that toooo much eh? [|)])

~Squeek
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: goingslow on October 14, 2003, 14:57:46
thought I'd never see the day.  

Your posts have a lot more authority now that you're premier.. [;)] hope things are good for you.
Title: Adrian where did you hide that topic?
Post by: goingslow on August 29, 2003, 08:50:38
well here was my response anyway.  I guess after Adrian declared Mayatnik a suitable and very trustworthy teacher he moved the topic or erased it..

Adrian,  

That is coming as a shock to me that you see nothing cultish about it.  Wait.. the prophecy and divination forum is filled with mayatnik's sticky topics.  You believe very much in this end of the world.. fight for the light nonsense.  What am I saying?  I expected nothing more from you.

Paremenion.  You are seriously self deluded.  Who is this mediocre spirit you are chanelling.  The way you talk to mayatnik "perchance"..and other ways you think make you sound more intelligent.  You really think you're chosen for anything?

I gave my concern it is a cult.  And I think it is.. however I see even though this forum sent a caution out to mysticweb people.  Adrian's personal beliefs about the pleidians and this doom stuff is going to make him endorse mayatnik.

Wait this is a sticky in astral chat telling people to go look at mayatnik's topic which is a sticky in divination.  hmmmmm no that doesnt suggest anything.

Most of the chosen people on that forum are seriously self deluded people who really want to believe they will have ANYTHING to do with saving humanity when all this darkness comes.  

Have fun travelling back and forth to "ED's House" plotting your next move.

BTW most cult leaders aren't flaming madmen telling people to drink their poison.  Most are just overzealous people believing in a cause.

You just have to look at the members of any cult to look how high the information is coming from.

This forum obviously endorses certain cults while condemning others and telling people "find your own way".  

So have fun with all of it.  Mayatnik make your next post a separate one so Adrian can make a nice sticky out of it.

Thanks people for listening to my concerns.  If even one person doesn't buy into this end of the world bovine excrement (which judging from PM's may have happened).. then the post was worth it.  For the rest of you PREPARE PREPARE for these pleidians who sometimes mislead.  Remember its all for your benefit.