Does Consciousness Have A Beginning?

[Xanth]

What do you think?

[Stillwater]

Lol... you are going to make my head explode with all of this stuff this morning.

To me... the easier answer is that it has always existed. Why has it always existed? Probably because it is necessary for consciousness to have existed for some indeterminate reason, or equivalently because worlds without consciousness are not possible. Perhaps that is because consciousness may also be the only thing that exists, so therefore a world lacking it lacks existence.

Saying it is necessary for it to have existed is really the easy way out though. What if consciousness was not the first thing created (as in it always existed), but was created at a point in time? Much trickier to explain... because without consciousness, there is no will to create. If there is no will, that means consciousness was the result of a mechanical action; if it was the result of a mechanical action, is that again saying that it was necessary? Because if it wasn't necessary, that means the mechanical action could have possibly produced a different result, but then what gives the mechanical action the possibility of acting more than one way?

It seems like in order to answer the question of whether consciousness has a beginning, you have to answer the question of why there is consciousness, or even what it is composed of. For instance, does consciousness have parts? Because things that are composed of parts are all probably created, because the thing itself is the union of the parts, which can come together and apart. If something lacks parts, it seems like a better candidate for something that has always existed. What of our consciousness? Clearly it has parts, such as memories, will, and emotions. But are those parts composed of something at their base that has no parts? For instance, are there fragments like "the feeling of general well-being", or maybe even more basic, that are pure substances lacking structure? Because it seems like such things must always have existed, because they cannot be assembled from anything, and they cannot be disassembled. This is similar to the idea of energy in physics. There is no evidence that energy has ever been created or destroyed, because it lacks parts. Even those that theorize the big bang say that all the energy that is here in the universe was present in that singularity point, and wasn't created, just released.

So to you, is consciousness something that has parts, or lacks parts? And if it has parts, what are those parts? And if it lacks parts, can you give an example of something that lacks parts being created or destroyed?

[Xanth]

What about YOUR consciousness?

Did it "start" some time?  
If so, does that mean it'll "end" some time too?

Regarding your post above, I did read it!  Just wanting to touch on the above quickly before I said anything else (which might be later). 

[Stillwater]

From the argument by parts, if it started, it was constructed somehow, and will very likely end somewhere down the road.

I think our personal identities are built of parts, and will thus dissolve later. But I think whatever the smallest units that compose us are will continue in some other form.

But that is all Greek / Stillwaterish philosophy lol. I wonder what other people think...

[Szaxx]

Thinking of Darwinian evolution something unknown must have developed with evolution.
Perhaps it ends in the source, all being one.

A modern principle exists in computers. They cant exactly think yet but...

Interesting topic.

[Kzaal]

I think we're all the origins of the big bang.
I had a vision a LONG LONG time ago.
We were probably one being in complete darkness hanging in the infinite space.
We didn't understand what had to be done except that we had only one possible choice to end the probably painful emptiness, so we made our self explode into billions of lights/energy/beings.
See it as a barrier, you are imprisoned in yourself, and your mind, but you don't know why so we created the feelings/emotions. Confusion as to why we are there, everything else anger probably triggered it.
Then there was the big bang because we exploded and our conscience was had amnesia or something and that energy was enough to start the evolution.
We probably always had a conscience we just needed different point of view to understand.

I do not think however, that we can return to being one because that would do an eternal cycle of continuous misunderstanding.
It would be like a child who never learn anything and is just being selfish all the time.

Edit: Life and consciousness is probably some kind of paradox in itself. I also think if we go through all life teachings and are in perfect balance that it wont happen again.

[Rakkso]

It is my opinion, we are derived from counciousness, we are still a part of pure counciousness, and we have the capacity to take potentiality and to transforme it through work into physical matter stuff.
The analogy that we are like a tool, created to easily create more diversed stuff, amuses me.

And we are just starting, science shows everything in Our Universe is fundamentaly made out of Carbon, Oxygen, Hydrogen, Nitrogen.

Imagine a whole new world were Matter is fundamentally composed of 6 basic elements, or even, were just a Carbon atom could form 6 bonds instead of 4. Just as in Our Universe, there, potentiality starts another waterfall again, full of all new things.

Imagine... there are no limits to what can exist exept those you set in you Mind.

Does Counciousness has a Beginning? I really don't know... yet.
Do I had a Beggining? My personal Mind that stores my thoughts ever since the first memory I can come up with, yes, I had a beginning. Or not sure if that was my Intellect, and turns out that I don't.

[Bluefirephoenix]

Xanth forcing spirit into a physical box makes the box explode. Time has no meaning....outside our little boooble. The point that still water made is good. But even as you go out past that point of existance which emenates into the Father and Mother and into  spirit it's still the same time just isn't.

[mon9999]

In the Bhagavad Gita 5000 years ago krishna said "there was never a time when you and I has never existed nor will there be a time when you and I will cease to exist"

[ChampagneCharlie]

If time is part of physical reality and that's a manifestation of consciousness then beginnings and ends are only applicable to the reality thought has created.

Perhaps in a purely spiritual realm there is no time. No beginning and no end.

[Rakkso]

If time is part of physical reality and that's a manifestation of consciousness then beginnings and ends are only applicable to the reality thought has created.

Perhaps in a purely spiritual realm there is no time. No beginning and no end.

Exactly,
But what about Your Mind? your memories and thoughts of this life? will they just sum up to something greater? will you get an even more bigger awareness where this life memories and past lifes memories joint into a being, being you, ultimately, the representation of all your previous experiences in life, and with the Personality of your more recent one life, ultimately? will you chooce between going source or staying here or going somewhere else? Or will your personality and Individuality just cease to exist, since all the info you gathered is transfered somewhere else to start again?
To get to the question, did your Personality/Individual Counciousness started this life? Or were you molded by it, but always keeping Your Original Nature, The Nature of all previous lifes to "NOW" Existance?

I think thats Xanth's specific, hard to put/say, question. Maybe I'm worng.

[Kzaal]

Exactly,
But what about Your Mind? your memories and thoughts of this life? will they just sum up to something greater? will you get an even more bigger awareness where this life memories and past lifes memories joint into a being, being you, ultimately, the representation of all your previous experiences in life, and with the Personality of your more recent one life, ultimately? will you chooce between going source or staying here or going somewhere else? Or will your personality and Individuality just cease to exist, since all the info you gathered is transfered somewhere else to start again?
To get to the question, did your Personality/Individual Counciousness started this life? Or were you molded by it, but always keeping Your Original Nature, The Nature of all previous lifes to "NOW" Existance?

I think thats Xanth's specific, hard to put/say, question. Maybe I'm worng.

I think we've always been conscious, but conscious at different stages.
Maybe when we reincarnate we put the old life into akashik records and go in our next life.
When we are enlightened, I think we are revealed what was all our past lives and we're forever conscious about them.
Probably no begining and no end in some kind of way.
If we're REALLY in the infinite wheel of eternity then there shouldn't be a "new begining" where everything is erased.
Even if I say everything is erased I still have doubts because... You can't erase that stuff completly. It's too complex.
I don't think there's any possibility to "close the consciousness" once it's opened...
The universe and time-space continuum are infinite to an enlightened being.
It can go everywhere, and nowhere... It always feels like home. A safe-spot for a conscious being.

This may answer one more of your questions: The Universe, the Energy, the Source, it's all connected. When you see something is wrong with the Universe, it will change, it understand and change itself into a better universe I think.
if you say: -I feel like I've seen that too many times! I feel like I'm re-living my life even tho I can't change the errors I made, well the universe will feel it and will bend itself. It will make sure you are in a life you never lived.

I hope it answers your questions man, cause I went really deep this time.

[Rakkso]

I think we've always been conscious, but conscious at different stages.
Maybe when we reincarnate we put the old life into akashik records and go in our next life.
When we are enlightened, I think we are revealed what was all our past lives and we're forever conscious about them.
Probably no begining and no end in some kind of way.
If we're REALLY in the infinite wheel of eternity then there shouldn't be a "new begining" where everything is erased.
Even if I say everything is erased I still have doubts because... You can't erase that stuff completly. It's too complex.
I don't think there's any possibility to "close the consciousness" once it's opened...
The universe and time-space continuum are infinite to an enlightened being.
It can go everywhere, and nowhere... It always feels like home. A safe-spot for a conscious being.

This may answer one more of your questions: The Universe, the Energy, the Source, it's all connected. When you see something is wrong with the Universe, it will change, it understand and change itself into a better universe I think.
if you say: -I feel like I've seen that too many times! I feel like I'm re-living my life even tho I can't change the errors I made, well the universe will feel it and will bend itself. It will make sure you are in a life you never lived.

I hope it answers your questions man, cause I went really deep this time.

I see what you mean, nice Thoughts/answers btw, I asked those questions to defrag OPs initial question, and its possibilities.
In my opinion I'd like to get somewhere else were I can keep my previous memories, were I can keep creating.
But of course, Source knows better whats for me.

Take into account that there are many ways and forms of enlightment, as in Enlightement through Martial Arts Trainning, Through A life of meditation, Through acquaring of Physical Hidden Knowledge, Through Experimentation of The Oneness with all, Wholeness Experience, even just by seeing everything always as it truly is, which is in my words, "It's all completely beautiful", I think thats a form of enlightment too. And perhaps more I can't think/know of. I have thought about yours and like it, I just have never come across a method to do so, exept perhaps Deep Hypnotism. A more spiritual focused method to achieve that would be pure awesomeness.

An enlightened being knows time-space as Almost Infinitum, what I mean is, It is to big to put to words.
i.e. a Universe, with a WIDTH or a HEIGHT at a "specific moment or instant" of a  number 9 followed by trillionz of billions of gazillions of Bazillions of Ceros (0). But the next instant It expands itself even more.
And enlightened being could know all what you know, and nothing more, and still there is so much to keep learning.
I just believe there are several degrees to it. We are all just getting started my friend.

[Kzaal]

I see what you mean, nice Thoughts/answers btw, I asked those questions to defrag OPs initial question, and its possibilities.
In my opinion I'd like to get somewhere else were I can keep my previous memories, were I can keep creating.
But of course, Source knows better whats for me.

Take into account that there are many ways and forms of enlightment, as in Enlightement through Martial Arts Trainning, Through A life of meditation, Through acquaring of Physical Hidden Knowledge, Through Experimentation of The Oneness with all, Wholeness Experience, even just by seeing everything always as it truly is, which is in my words, "It's all completely beautiful", I think thats a form of enlightment too. And perhaps more I can't think/know of. I have thought about yours and like it, I just have never come across a method to do so, exept perhaps Deep Hypnotism. A more spiritual focused method to achieve that would be pure awesomeness.

An enlightened being knows time-space as Almost Infinitum, what I mean is, It is to big to put to words.
i.e. a Universe, with a WIDTH or a HEIGHT at a "specific moment or instant" of a  number 9 followed by trillionz of billions of gazillions of Bazillions of Ceros (0). But the next instant It expands itself even more.
And enlightened being could know all what you know, and nothing more, and still there is so much to keep learning.
I just believe there are several degrees to it. We are all just getting started my friend.

You're right there's so many different ways to be enlightened. For me I like the thinking of the Taoisms with their Stages of immortals (Xian) someone else, see enlightement as just being connected to the source as light, it's all different for everyone, but we all end up connected spiritually with the source of course, only thing difference is what we do when we're connected to the source.
Some people prefer to stay next to the source and empower's it, some will stay connected with it through thoughts but will prefer moving through celestial realms/heaven and earth to help a different way.
What I like is that the when you are finally connected to the source/enlightened wherever you go you'll always be connected.
I think what happens is, The source always accept the energy given to it.
If the universe is beginning to be too "crowded" then it will reduce the size of all matter so more stuff fits into it.
I know when you reach the highest stage of enlightenment as a Xian (celestial immortal) you are "called" to there to watch over the earth at first then finally watch over the cosmos and the celestial realm.
It can take millenniums to get there so I don't think anything would end.
That would be a bad move as in that it would delete all the good that has happened, all the teachings, all the love given.
I think when the conscience was created, the source "released itself" from having too many people connected at the same time or something like it.
The source would know how it was back then and wouldn't want to go back to that stage because it is free of thinking now.
That's just how I see it tho. We'll only know when we get there.

Edit: Ok, I just thought about that and it perfectly makes sense to me, We have to empower the source so that it can create more conscious beings.
As long as we give it energy it will always produce more, and more will connect with it. As long as there's a constant flow of new beings created there would always be new Horizons(space/time continuum) indefinitely.

[Ellury]

The subjects presented in this thread are things that I have ponder as early as a young child. I would contemplate how and when existence began very seriously, but end up growling in frustration when my mind would be left with no answer. All anyone can really do is ask questions and speculate to why or how consciousness began. I would like to offer a somewhat fresh perspective or theory on the idea. As humans we usually mark our beginning as the day we are born. We didn't just come out of nowhere, but we had two people come together to bring us into this world. What if consciousness is also like us in that prospect and was offspring of two things coming together to create something new. What would be those things that came together to create an awareness.

Perhaps consciousnesses having a beginning is like one of those picture illusions. Looking at from one perspective you can see a clear start and end but as you change it those starting and ending points are actually connected in a continuing spiral.

[ChampagneCharlie]

Interesting topic for discussion...

If all matter is conscious then how does the coming together of those materials (on conception of life) become a "greater" consciousness (self awareness and so on).