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Hi everyone, my name is lief.  For a long time now I have been trying to register so i can post here, nearly a year now i guess but have never been able to load the registration page?
I have been studying AP and OBEs for a few years now, I have had nearly 25 I think.  (rough estimate, first time Ive tried to count them)
At what point are you classed as an astral regular?
My first time was after I read the treatise on astral projection (or something along that line) by Mr Bruce.   I could understand a lot of what he said, and it seemed straight forward.  I tried for a few days and then I got the paralysis and noises.  The noises turned out to be my biggest stumbling block, my fear.  I learned to become more of a "passive observer" in this stage of the OBE, just wait and relax!  Once you reach the vibration point just hang on for the ride.  My first projection was when I rolled out of my body.  I rolled over for some reason and fell out of bed, or floated to the floor rather.  too much excitement and I got sucked back in and woke up a few times (happens a lot, you get used to it) and celebrated!  i dont know what the general concensus (sp?) on this board is about crystals, but I have found they were a great help at the start, whether they were a mental crutch or not.  (hematite, herkimer diamond and howlite - the h thing is a coincidence btw)
i quite often project from a ld, my most recent was when i leapt off a building, fell THROUGH the ground with a wierd noise and woosh im out.  as soon as i realise im dreaming i can project 90% of the time.  i can pretty much choose when to project, (using progressive relaxation method, no rope or movement or anything).  
Well, theres a few of you out there that I have followed the posts of, thx for this great forum! (fitting many posts into one here, makes up for the last year or two)
I dont know if you guys want to hear some more of my experiences but let me know!
peace
Lief

hmmm i tried something like that a while back, but i didnt like the feeling it gave me. sorta like using a drug and trying to OBE.  i'll let my brain do it 'naturally' i think. i remember reading a warning about epileptics as well... pleaaaase if you are, DO NOT USE IT!
peaces of love
lief michael

Welcome to the astral pulse Silva! the post was fine, by the way.
Do not take what I said literally, or if you wish to, re-read my post on "softies".  My belief is that Robert Bruce has laid some great ground work for the study of OBE.  He is human.  He is not divinity.  He can, and will err, like everyone of us.  Everyone here can contribute to the study of OBE, and by visiting this forum and posting, whether it sounds 'confrontational' or not.  Can you really imagine scientists researching *insert research topic here* being petty about whether an analysis of a thesis didnt include the words please and thankyou?
last point for this thread (and i really enjoyed it, thank you all [])

What Tha Phak:  The topic of this thread "Robert Bruce is confusing and contradicts himself" was slightly too pointed for some here, although I know what you meant.  Maybe pose it next time as a question or "I believe.... "
I believe there is no etheric body. I believe you never leave your body.  I believe your brain generates an environment for you (much like a computer game, but we dont think they are real - however realistic they look and sound).  I have not decided whether I believe that this generated environment is based on outside data, like your brain acts as a astral radar dish.
Either way, OBEing is fun, has opened my mind to soooooo many other things that I never thought possible, and needs to be studied, shared & CONFRONTED.  Many fields of science have had changes in theories over the years.
How many here still believe the earth is flat? (i dont actually want to hear the answer to that, i'm sure theres a few like that here)

peaces of love to you all.
keep debating NOT flaming
lief michael

Now that was a good post.
I'm sorry people, but we can't just hide away the stuff we don't want to hear, get it out and talk about it.  What is right if we don't know what is wrong?  Robert Bruce is only human, and i'm sure he errs occassionally - as do we all. Now I know you are spiritual people, but that doesn't mean you have to be over-sensitive "softies".
peace and love
lief michael

whats the motto (not sure if its healthy or not...) - "no pain, no gain"?
when you first start any intense activity, you can expect to hurt.  It goes away and you get stronger.  Keep training!

love and peace
lief michael

Tom, with all due respect as a member of your standing deserves, I have re-read the post and I feel I personally would not be insulted at all by his approach, though it may be written in a non-formal conversational style.

love and peace
lief michael

I just don't remember when I look at my clock and it says 2.37 or 9.53 ...

whats the spiritual meaning behind the fact that when ever Im installing software on my computer and glance at the progress bar it says 69% completed?  maybe i just remember that number and ignore the rest?

peace and love
lief michael

Well.  I'm  disappointed in the reaction to that post.  WhatThaPhak has obviously read the book closely, and not only that but has studied the book carefully, down to the choice of words used in separate sections of the book.

"you didn't come here for anything but to create a little static based on something you yourself probably can't do or won't take the time to find out for yourself.. What a shame."  - it was a serious question on a serious subject that he has taken time to think about

"But I have never ever experienced any kind of pain at all while projecting.How about trying a little direct personal experience yourself? If you have read so much, surely you must know how to astrally project yourself by now." - as regular visitor here knows, reading so much and knowledge does not automatically mean an OBE.

i have seen many people here with less commitment that have received more help.
how about some support and encouragement for a student of the OBE?  I am glad not everyone here are mindless Robert Bruce cultists (no offence against Mr Bruce, just the cultists) and are willing to challenge a statement if they believe it is wrong.  Remember WhatThaPhak did not say it was wrong from what he has experienced, he was merely commented on what we can all read in the book.

"Its just an OBE."

peace and love
liefmichael

the stars going through you sound like fun.  if you can get to RTZ try going through a window or glass door, it feels really strange but it liberates you and really lets you know that you are definately not on the physical
peace and love
vec

we must remember that this energy is not physical energy such as is supplied by carbohydrates etc.  different kettle of fish,
it is spiritual energy
peace and love
lief michael

beautiful.
this is what makes us human, the ability to love.
my prayers are with Nickamore.  Get Well Soon!
peace&love
lief michael

this is how i always thought of the idea of predestination or 'fate' and free will...

Everything you do is your choice (broad statement i know but you know what i mean)
And whatever you choose is what was going to happen (because im sure predestination takes into consideration whatever choices you were going to make)

Whether you change your mind at the last minute 'to throw a spanner in the works' for the fate idea or not, you were always going to change your mind. Even a double change (what you were originally going to do) doesnt work, because we were going to do that anyway.

hmm dont think that clears things up any but let me know if you know what i know im getting at []

peace&love

lief michael

more benefits

* stress relief
* relaxation
* physical health benefits which result from both of the above
* unbiased decision making
* my favourite - physical, mental and spiritual silence!

peacenlove
lief michael

Maybe a change of tactics is in order?  If your body keeps wanting to sleep maybe it is because you need sleep?  Why not look closer at lucid dream exit techniques (which is how i first learnt to OBE).  Simple reality checks to be precise was the only real technique I tried, did it for about a week and one night i went lucid, which was enough of an experience in itself and then I learnt to OBE from lucidity.  The reality check i used was the clock method, every time you look at the clock, look away and take another look.  It also causes you to subconciously check through the day to see if you are dreaming with other routine tasks.
Related info, study just released shows a link between heart disease and the amount of sleep we get, too little (6 hours or less) increases chance of heart probs and too much (9 or more) has the same effect. Interesting eh?
peace n love
lief michael

i found it fairly easy to induce vibration state by visualising 'phantom limbs' until they felt real.  i used to lie in bed and relax like usual and swing my feet (not my physical feet).  It starts to feel real and after a while you have to actually stop and think whether you are actually moving them or not.  keep going and then... bzzzzzzzzzz
peace
vec

on one my first obes i had to try walking through a glass sliding door.  strange experience.  even felt the glass going through me with a wierd noise.
have fun getting around first, babies learn to crawl before they go on hiking trips.
peace
vec

i found a mirror was a common trigger for me to go lucid and then project.  I would be looking in the mirror wondering when i bought the brightly coloured oversize hawaiian shirt with matching shorts and bleached my hair such a funny white colour and i would suddenly realize that i didnt and that i was dreaming.  when i actually projected in rtz and looked in mirror i found it was not much different to the reality projected around me except that my face would be distorted or blurry.  The eyes would always be different too, as if my eyes had no iris (or whatever the coloured bit is) and were pointing outwards.  this would lead to me wondering why i could still see ok and the deep philosophy that ensued beamed back to my body in a flash.  thats the problem with trying to analyze and think during OBE.
peace
lief

just posted to a related topic in another thread.  yes, i used to get pokes in the side that bordered on painful.  or a clutching feeling in the side, like a hand was reaching in and squeezing.  the head 'rushing' sensations get intense, but not really painful.
can't help you directly, but this is what i felt.  as far as i know there are no permanent physical effects (although once my ear popped or something and was hurting the rest of the day) and with more energy work maybe they can be minimised or eliminated.
peace
vec

the exit sensations i were experiencing were so severe at one point i gave it away for a month or so.  

here are some of the things i experienced

* hands being placed on top of my head (scalp massage?) - not so bad, feels wierd but ok
* pokes in the side - not bad, but can get painful
* feeling of a hand being placed in the small of my back
* various touches
* tapping on walls as i return to physical

and the one regular common sideeffect... the pulling / tugging sensation.  mine felt as though someone had gripped me around the ankles and was swinging me around violently (i dont mean harmfully or painfully, just really fast) so that it felt like a sideshow ride with your eyes shut.  these exit sensations over a period of time became longer and more intense (after the initial period when i had learned to OBE and they had subsided) until i stopped exiting altogether.  i gave it a rest and came back, and its all ok again.

nothing bad, nothing i wasnt ready for, but in the end the combination of them all turned me off it a bit. almost like i couldnt be bothered.  maybe it was a test? dunno.

peace
lief

good post.  when you say 'friction' you mean don't press your foot against the wall to hold it up, just let it sit there and the slight grip your foot has on the wall is the only thing holding your leg up.  as you slip into a deeper state your body will relax and your foot will slip (whether it actually does or you think it does is irrelevant), alerting you to the fact that you are nearly asleep without actually waking you. another thing you can try is to lie down and relax, hold your arm up in the air, and don't do anything but try to go to sleep.  When you reach the right mental state your arm will fall, which can train you to remain concious while falling asleep.
Regarding the second method... yes it works.
However, it usually happens slightly differently.  After exhausting sex (coupla hours maybe) you feel drained and relaxed.  All I have to do is lie down while the heart is still pumping and start to go to sleep and my OBE goes into autopilot mode and happens automatically.
My most consistent method however, is to relax deeply for maybe 20 minutes, without actually straining or trying to project, just relax, shut off your senses, slow your thoughts.  I then roll onto my side, forget all about the OBE and go to sleep.  about 70 - 80% of the time i will project as i am falling asleep, presumably due to the pre-relaxed state i am in.

congrats on the experimentation.  maybe class isnt a good place to practice though?  you'll probably find youll wish you had listened when you are older

lief

"the thing is, if we asked anyone who was actually involved in the *alleged* (lol) moon landing if it actually occured and they said yes... of course they are lying because its one big conspiracy and if they said no... it proves everything"

simplified: Sarcasm.  if there is proof we went to the moon, conspiracy theorists would say it is faked, and if there is proof we didnt go to the moon, they were right.

"I can't remember which one it was, which proves it doesn't exist"

simplified: Sarcasm again.  in my experience, For people who believe in theories such as this, and even more extreme theories, the proof doesnt have to be reasonably good, it has to be absolutely watertight.  This is usually pretty hard as life doesnt take place in strictly controlled laboratory conditions.  

I'm not a big fan of conspiracy theories, so I am slightly biased on the subject.  I believe the website mentioned a few posts earlier was the one I read, and it was also the first mention I had ever seen of the moon landing being faked.   I must say I laughed harder than I had for a long time.

not only jesus, the devil or god, but in a broader sense contact with divinity (whether good or bad) or some sort of religious experience.  i dont ctually know for sure but it seems slightly stereotypical.  
if a person from another country saw jesus, and they didnt know who jesus was, would they call him allah?

I have found that whenever I reach lucidity in the dream there has always been a trigger. My trigger usually is something odd.  Last time i managed to go lucid was at my previous house from 7 years ago.  It felt normal at the time, but I suddenly realised I lived somewhere else, and when I thought about a bit more, I decided I hadnt actually even visited it so i MUST be dreaming.  I then leapt off the 3 storey high balcony (which is really 1 storey in truth) to prove to the friend that I hadnt seen for years standing next to me that i was dreaming. i fell through the ground, and managed to have an OBE!  I usually read the OBE forums but the topic caught my eye.
Il start making a journal.  The other thing which helps you out a lot is talking about your dreams.  Tell someone each day about your dream, but make sure they have a slight interest first, dont make enemies .  In time, your dreams will stick in your memory better after you wake, maybe subconciously by talking about your dreams your brain realises the extra importance you are placing on remembering them.  maybe make an affimation not only to wake up but to remember your dreams?

the thing is, if we asked anyone who was actually involved in the *alleged* (lol) moon landing if it actually occured and they said yes... of course they are lying because its one big conspiracy and if they said no... it proves everything.  how did scientists end up with the moon rocks?  they have been studied by thousands of people in hundreds of labs worldwide.  the makeup of the rocks is unlike anything found on earth, or are they fake too?  you can actually hire or loan them for research from whichever american institute has them.  I can't remember which one it was, which proves it doesn't exist
there is a difference between having blinkers on and not being a conspiracy theorist.  im open to argument but it has to be better than suppositions about physics on the moon when no one has actually been there anyway?  there is a instrument set up on the moon from which if you have a laser and the correct equipment you can bounce a laser off and measure the distance (so ive read on a astronomy website, they could be in on it too)

im sure there is a right belief and wrong however...  if we can prove it or not.  you cant make up your own answer for 2 + 2, it equals 4.  killing is wrong, agreed?  lying is wrong, why? (i dont kill and i try not to lie however, just throwing ideas around)