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Hello,

I often hear the Robert Monroe Institute being referenced and apparently it has received widespread fame amongst the 'Astral Projection' community.

I would like to know, is this institute a scientific institute? From all my research on this phenomena known as "out of body experiences" I have not found one scientificaly-conducted experiment which was done to test the validity of such experiences.

Is this due to the fear that in the end there will be nothing to prove such experiences as being more than a dream or hallucination?

Is this Monroe Institute a scientific instittue? If so, were there any documented experiments to account for?

I ofted hear members on this forum quoting Robert Monroe, or Robert bruce, or Adrian Cooper, in things that apparently have no evidence or documentation of their truthfulness. Yet, I see members following such statements blindly as if its some sort of revelation. I find this to be a childish, superstitutious, and almost ridiculous way to obtain information about reality and the afterlife.

In any case, If you have any information regarding experiments done at the 'Robert Monroe' Institute, please paste the information.

Thank you,

Jibreel

I just had an experience where I awoke in the astral plane and saw an old, deceased pet.

Our old white cat had a habit of jumping up onto my chest when I used to lay in bed. Now, the overwhelmingly majority of my OBE'S have been fairly dream like and hazy - even the conscious ones have seemed blurred and uncontrollable, but this time things were more clear and realistic than me sitting here typing at this moment. It only lasted about 15 - 20 seconds, but if that's how real the astral plane can be, I can see that I've only been grasping a tiny fraction of it's reality. And the transition back from the astral to physical happened seamlessly.

How bizarre it was to reach out and touch that old cat - one that I haven't thought about in years and years.  

This is ridiculous. Youre just dreaming.

Jibreel,

You wrote:

IF people think it is ridiculous it is up to them to decide, but it is my right to share the information.

Not necessarily. Certain governments may provide the right of free speech, but ultimately, the administrator and moderators of this forum collectively decide whether or not your posts are permissable.

I will repeat: We will not allow you to make random posts on Islamic philosophy just because you want to.

In reality its clear that you just have an open hatred for Islam and the call of la ilaha illa Allah (there is no god but Allah). It seems that in reality you are the one who is the nazi.

If you want to introduce a book on a thread, then just post the link to it. Do not fill up an entire thread with a lengthy excerpt.

This boook can not be found online. I have it wtih me and I typed up the excerpt for you and other members benefits.

I do not know how to make this position any clearer and I will not argue with you further over this issue.

All Im asking is my right to state the Islamic positions regarding issues. If the people on this forum do not have the intellectual and emotional capacity to tolerate them(maybe due to the fact that they make so much sense), then that is quite sad.

This is now your SECOND warning, and I might add, within less than an hour of your first warning.  

You are obviously trying to provoke discord and in doing so, you will be banned.

Please dont ban me. I am simply giving people my sincere advice regarding such issues(which is based upon the teachings of Islam)

Jibreel welcome to the forums and thank you for making clear the islamic point of view on mediumship.

what interests me is the islamic point of view on astral projection. what about those who claim to have traveled (not summoned) to the dead people and talked with them?

Jalef,

What seems apparent, from my own study of it(not many scholars have put much study into this phenomena known as 'astral projection'), is that the contact with the 'spirits of the dead' in the 'astral realm', is nothing but contact with the jinn.

Oh goody! More religious dogma.

Word of advice Jibreel,
If you want to stay a member of this site...

NO PREACHING!!!!

We are here for open minded people who are searching for their OWN truths, not for people who have become mentally enslaved by some religion and feel it their duty to tell everyone that their religion is the only right one and everyone else is wrong.

Please post your OWN EXPERIENCES and your OWN THOUGHTS

Religious prostheletizing of any kind is not tolerated here.

James.

This is what I believe, take it or leave it.

Jalef,

I have no idea what your purpose is in making such a post.  Why are you telling us this? If it is to warn people to be wary of charlatans who make claims of being able to do certain extraordinary things when they may well be frauds and only after your money, well...that would be okay. But you need not have filled up this thread with everything else that the author says.

Actually I posted it (Jibreel) not Jalef.

The post isnt simply about charlatans. As you can see from the incident, the medium  who the person went to was no more a charlatan than men like Leslie flint who claim to have contact with the dead. The poitn of the article is to put an Islamic perspective on these 'dead spirits' that this forum, and like-minded people have become so obsessed regarding

Jibreel welcome to the forums and thank you for making clear the islamic point of view on mediumship.

what interests me is the islamic point of view on astral projection. what about those who claim to have traveled (not summoned) to the dead people and talked with them?

What seems apparent is that they are speaking with the jinn, not real people. The devils take different forms to deceive people based upon what they think will appeal to the person.

You come across as trying to make a case for women being 'awrah, and that is something that is way outside of the realm of what this forum is all about. Besides, I am a woman, as are many on this forum, and I find that position quite offensive.

As a woman, I politely request that you keep such opinions to yourself, or post them on an forum that agrees with such nonsense.

First of all, the article is from a book so I am quoting verbatim from it. In order for an individual to understand the article, and the point behind it, i would be required to quote everything.

You find it offensive that a woman should be covered completely? That is your opinion. If you understood the wisdom behind it, then you might think differently.

It seems that you consider Islam to be a form of naziism, because we believe in laa ilaha illa Allah(there is nothing worthy of worship except Allah), and we deny everything that is worshipped, followed, or obeyed, instead of the Creator. That is your issue, but Islam is the truth whether it pleases you are not.

You are clearly proselitizing and trying to sway people away from anything that does not conform to Islamic belief. That is NOT what this forum is all about.

I am simply sharing the Islamic perspective on the issue, which involves rejection, and affirmation. IF people think it is ridiculous it is up to them to decide, but it is my right to share the information.


Youre signature states:

Become a Critical Thinker!
"Ignorance is the greatest of all sins."
--Origen of Alexandria

If you are a critical thinker then you wouldnt be afraid of articles someone is posting online. And if you truly believe ignorance is the greatest of all sins, you would let me post it.

Thank you,

Jibreel

Summoning spirits: deceit of the devils

taken from the book: the World of Jinns and devils by Umar al-ashqar


A contemporary experience

This happened to the writer Ahmad Izz ad-Deen Al-Bayaanooni, which he mentioned in his book Al-Eemaan bi'l-Malaa'ikah (belief in the angels). I want to quote verbatim what this atuhro said on this topic in his book:

"People in both the east and the west are preoccupied with thoughts of so-called summoning of the souls of the dead. Many articles have been written on this topic in various languages, and published in Arabic magazines and others. Books have been written, research has been done and people have tried it out for themselves, after which the intelligent ones among them have found out that this is a lie, and a call to kufr(disbelief) and transgression.

Summoning the souls of the dead, as they claim to do, is a lie and a form of cheating and deceit. The so-called souls are nothing but devils which are toying with humans and deceiving them.

no one has the power to summon the soul of anyone, because after the souls leave the bodies, they go to the realm of Al-Barzakh(for more information see http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=11110&dgn=4 ), where they are either in a state of bliss or a state of torment, and they are preoccupied with something other than the calls of those who seek to summon their souls.

I was invited to such a thing by some of these spiritualists, and I tried it myself over a period of time. IT became clear to me that this is a lie, a form of deceit and trickery at the hands of devils who are merely toying with people. Their purpose is to lead people astray and deceive them and to increase the number of their followers."

The beginning of the experiment

Ahmad 'Izz ad-Deen continued by saying:

"More than ten years ago I knew a man who claimed that he used the jinn to do good things to help people, by means of a human medium. He claimed to have attained that by means of lengthy recitations and dhikr(remembrance of Allah), which he spent a long time doing, and which he was taught by one who claimed to have knowledge of such things.

The medium came to me one day and told me that I had been invited by a male and female among the jinn, to discuss a matter which would be in my best interests.

So I went at the appointed time, putting my trust in Allah and feeling happy because of that, so that I could find out what it was all about."

How did the deceit begin?


"The first method of deceit that was used with me was that the summoning of the spirits began with prayers for forgiveness, reciting laa ilaaaha ill-Alah(there is no god but Allah) and dhikr, which makes a person feel at first that he is speaking with pure, sincere and noble spirits.

I entered the house of the medium, and we sat together in a room, where he sat on a bed. We started - under his direction of course - to recite prayers for forgiveness and to repeat laa ilaaha ill-Allah(there is no god but Allah) until he fell into a trance. I laid him down on his bed and covered him with a blanket, as he told me to do. Then in a low voice his friend from among the jinn greeted me and expressed his joy at meeting me and his love for me. He introduced himself and told me that he was a created being, claiming that he was neither an angel nor a jinn, but another kind of creature which came into existence by the word of Allah "Be!" and he was.

According to his claims, the jinn followed the instructions of no one but himself, and there were only five mediums between him and Allah, the fifth of whom was Jibreel.

He started praising me, saying that htey would cut off all other ties with mankind and be content with meeting me only, because I was the special person of this era - or so he claimed - a person who was under the special care of Allah, and Allah was the One Who had chosen me for that.

He made amazing promises to me, promises that were astounding.
I went along with this new experience and this deceitful call, putting my trust in Allah, asking Allah to protect me from slipping into error and to guide me ot the clear truth, seeking the light of knowledge and following the way of righteousness, praise be to Allah.

when the first meeting ended, he invited me to another meeting, on another occasion, then he himself taught me a special recitation to awaken the medium from his trance.

This was done, and the medium sat up and rubbed his eyes, as if he was waking up from a deep sleep and did not know what had been happening.
I went back to the next appointment as well, and we met for a long time on each occasion after that. In every meeting the wonderful promises were repeated, and they described the dazzling future that awaited me, and the great benefits which would come to the ummat at my hands.

The matter went further

The matter went further. Many spirits started to visit me at every meeting, whether it began with dhikr or not. I would be with the medium eating food or having a cup of tea, and he would fall into his usual trance and tilt his head forward until it rested on his chest, then the visitor who claimed to be an angel, or jinn, or one of the sahaabah(companions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) or awliyaa' (righteous people), would talk to me, showing a great deal of respect, saying that he was being blessed by his visit with me and giving me glad tiding of a prosperous and blessed future. Then he would go away, and another one would come, and another..."

Who were the visitors?

"According to what they claimed, individuals among the angels visited me, and individuals among the jinn, and Abu Hurayrah from among the sahaabah(companions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) , and a group from among the auliyaa'(righteous people), such as Abu'l-Hasan al-Shaadhili, and a group of knowledgeable and virtuous people who were known for their knowledge and for being close to Allah, such as Shaykh Ahmad al-Tarmaaneemi (may Allah have mercy on him), as well as some scholars and virtuous people whom I had met and who had died, such as my father (may Allah have mercy on him).

They gave me the glad tidings that my father would visit me at a time set by them. I looked forward to the visit anxiously. When the time came, they asked me to recite Soorat al-Waaq'ah(chapter from the Qur'an) aloud, and I read it. When I finished reading it they said, ' Your father will come after a few moments. Listen to what he says but do not ask him anything!"

The beginning of the end

"After a few minutes he came to me, the one who they claimed was my father came to me and greeted me, epressing his happiness at meeting me and his joy over my contact with these spirits. He advised me to take care of the medium and his family, and to look after him with compassion and kindness, because had no other income except this way.

He ended his speech with As-Salaah al-Ibraheemiyyah. I know that he (may Allah have mercy on him) used to love very much to send blessings upon the Prophet (salallahu alayhe wasallam), especially As-Salaah al0-Ibraheemiyyah. What was amazing was that the tone of voice and accent of the one who spoke to me was to some extent similar to my father's tone of voice and accent. Then he said salaam and left.

I started to wonder, why did they tell me not to ask him anything? There was definitely something strange behind this!

The reason behind it dawned on me at this point: this was not my father, it was his qareen (companion) from among the jinn, who has accompanied him all his life. He had come to me in my father's form, imitating some of his characteristics.

They told me not to ask him anything, because the qareen is one of the jinn, and no matter what he knew about my father and his circumstances, he could not know every little thing that a son would know about his father. So they were afraid that I might ask him about something and he would not be able to answer, and thus their deceit would exposed. The way it happened when I met others was that they would not give me their names until they were leaving. Then one of them would say, ' I am so and so,' and he would say salaam(peace be upon you) and leave immediately.

The reason for that was the same as I have mentioned: if any of them had mentioned a name of someone who was known for having knowledge, and I had discusses d some academic issue with him, he would not have been able to answer me, and thus their deceit would have been exposed.

Someone once came to me discussing the matter of women uncovering their faces, saying that the face was not awrah(something that should be concealed in public). I refuted him, and he gave me an answer in which there was not even a whiff of knoweldge. The argument between us grew heated, and I said to him, 'What do you say about the view of the fuqahaa' (Islamic Jurists) who say that the woman's face is 'awrah, or that it must be covered for fear of fitnah(temptation)?' The argument fizzled out without reaching a conclusion, then he told me that he was Shaykh Ahmad al-Tarmaaneei, and left.


Then it became clear to me that hits was undoubtedly a lie, because the shaykh in question was one of the greatest Shaafa'i fuqahaa', one of the great Shaa'fai(Islamic school of thought) scholars who say that the entire woman is 'awrah, even if she is an ugly old woman.

If he had really been that shaykh, and he had come to know of some new evidence whilst he was in the realm of Al-Barzakh, he would have told me about it and explained the evidence.

But this was a lie and deceit, aimed at misguidance. But Allah Whom be praise - insisted on guiding me and making me cling steadfastly to the truth and right guidance.

For a woman to uncover her face - especially in these corrupt times and in this sick society - is something which no rational or religiously-committed person would endorse."

Exposing the truth

"I kept on discovering the truth, time after time, until I realized that the whole thing as a lie and falsehood, with no basis in piety and no foundation in religion.

The medium whom they took care of and told others to look after and honor, was one who did not pray, and they did not tell him to pray.


He used to shave his beard, and they did not tell him to let it grow.

He was consuming people's wealth unlawfully, by making false promises, and he had no other income except through this evil means.

A man came to me after he learned of my connection to this medium, complaining to me that he had deceived him and taken three hundred Syrian Liras from him, but he was poor and had great need of that money.

I told the medium to give it back to him, and he responded because he and his devils were keen that I would remain in contact with them. The medium and his family were living a life based on lies in most of their affairs."

Conclusion

Shaykh Ahmad 'Izz ad-Deen concluded his description of this experience by saying:

"After I found out about them these spirits tried to threaten me, but that did not affect me at all, praise be to Allah.

Throughout this long period I had written down what they had told me, and this had filled two large notebooks in which I had compiled most of what they had told me.

When it became obvious that this was falsehood, with no room for prevarication, I cut off all ties with them and formed my opinion concerning them. I burned the two books which were filled with lies and deceit.

These spirits claimed to be the souls of men among the sahaabah(companions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)  and awliyaa', and righteous men, all of them were devils, and no rational believers should be deceived by them.

All the ways and forms in which they are presented by those who claim to summon the dead are lies and falsehood, whether that is in the manner of the medium whom I have described here, or by means of the table and cups which have been described to me by some of those who tried that and reached the same conclusion as I did.

What is amazing is that after I read a book on this topic and found that those who have been through the same experience and are possessed of reason also reached the same conclusion and formed the same opinion about these spirits - that they are the qareens, the companions of the children of Adam from among the jinn, the same conclusion toe which Allah has also led me, to Him be praise.

I have done my duty of giving sincere advice (naseehah) by saying this , and Allah is the Guide and the Source of Strength.


The seriousness of these claims

These claims of being able to summon the spirits of the dead are being used by the devils among mankind and the jinn as a means to corrupt the religion. These spirits which are summoned, which are in fact devilss, speka words which undermine and destroy Islam and confirm the new principles and values which are diametrically opposed to the truth. In one of these gatherings, the spirit (the devil) claimed on the lips of a female medium that Jibreel was present at this gathering. When the people present did not know who Jibreel was, she said, "Do you not know Jibreel who used to bring the Qur'an down to Muhammad:? He is blessed this gathering!"

Dr. Muhammad Muhammad Husayn quoted from an article in 'aalam ar-rooh (spirit world) magazine, entitled "The Words of the Great Spirit Hawaayaat Hook", in which it said: "We have become united in this movement, in this new religion, we have to let love prevail and develop the abilities of tolerance and mutual understanding...

My mission (the one who is talking here is the spirit, i.e., the devil) is to console the dispossessed, to help man to free himself from God (he speaks the truth even though he is a liar, for this is indeed his mission, to make man disbelieve in Allah). Man is a god, composed of the elements of the earth (here he is inflating man's ego and telling him lies to misguide him). HE will never understand how much ability he has until he realizes his divine, angelic part... Spiritualism is more able than anything else to establish a new religion which will encompass the whole world."

He also quoted from this magazine some comments on the organization which aws founded for this purpose: "This organization will be for all of mankind, through which the inhabitants of the spirit world will show us a new way of life, and will give us a new idea of God and His Will. They will bring us peace and spiritual tranquility, and happiness of heart and soul; they will break down the barriers between people and individuals, between beliefs and religions... Membership of the organization has nothing to do with homeland, colour, religion or political ideology."

The spirits may claim that they have been sent by Allah. Dr. Muhammad Muhammad Husayn says that Muhammad Fareed Wajdi quoted these spirits (devils) as saying, "We have been sent from Allah as the Messengers were sent before us, but our teachings are more developed than theirs. Our God is their God, but our God is more manifest than theirs, with less human qualities and more divine qualities, not subject to any beliefs or sects. Teachings that are not based on reason are not to be accepted without examination and thinking."

They claim that the Messengers and Prophets were no more than mediums of a higher order, and that th emiracles which happeneda t their hands were spiritual events, like the things that happen in the seance room; they claim that they are able to repeat the events which were attributed to the Messiah through these spirits.

Some newspapers carried major advertising campaigns, claiming that one of the mediums in America was able to perform the same miracles as the Messiah, restoring sight to the blind, speech to the mute and movement to the paralyzed. It remains to be said that the so-called doctor was a ten-year old child called Mitchell. When the sick person came to him he would place his fingers on him and utter some prayers and words, then the miracle would happen. They said that this child had inherited the spiritual gift from his father, and that he did not charge money for the things that he did.

The fact that this child had inherited that from his father reminded me of a story which is told in some areas of Palestine, in which the story tellers say that one of the men who make an outwards show of righteousness and piety used to do amazing things. In those days when there were no airplanes or cars, he used to go to Hajj on the night of Arafaah and appear with the pilgrims on that day. He would give them letters from their relatives and kinsfolk, and he would take letters back from them to their relatives and kinsfolk, coming back on the following night. Many people thought that he was righteous and good, despite the fact that he never did the rituals of Hajj, he never stayed in Mina for the required period and he never stoned the Jamaraat.

Then Allah willed that his falsehood should be exposed, and that the people should come to know what was really happening. When death came to him, he called his oldest son and told him that a camel would come to him on the night of 'Arafaah; it would carry him to 'arafaah every year. When the camel came, the son rode it and it took him some distance and then stopped. It spoke to the son and told him that it was a devil, and that his father used to worship him and prostrate to him, in return for which he performed these services for him. When the son refused to prostrate to him, and sought refuge with Allah from him, he left him in the desert, but Allah enabled him to come back and tell people the truth about his kaafir father.

Al-Bayaanooni referred to this story in his book Al-Malaa'ikah, in a shorter version than that referred to here.

Is it possible to summon spirits?

Scientific American magazine announced a prize of high monetary value for anyone who can prove that spiritualist phenomena are real. This prize is still unclaimed; no one has won it despite the fact that the spiritualists are so widespread and wield such power and skill in America. Another prize has been added to that, donated by the American magician Donegan, for the same purpose, but no one has yet claimed that prize either.

Islamic ruling on summoning spirits

What is the Islamic view as to whether summoning the spirits of the dead is possible? Pondering the meaning of the texts on this matter leads one to rule that this is definitely impossible. Allah has told us that the souls are in the realm of the unseen which we have no way of reaching:

"And they ask you concerning the rooh [the spirit]. Say: 'The Rooh is one of the things, the knowledge of which is only with my Lord. And of knowledge, you [mankind] have been given only a little.' [Qur'an 17:85]

Allah has told us that He takes away people's souls, and that He keeps their souls when they die:

"It is Allah Who takes away the souls at the time of their death, and those that die not during their sleep. He keeps those [souls] for which He has ordained death and sends the rest for a term appointed. [Qur'an 39:42]


Allah has appointed angels who torment those souls if they were evil kuffar, and bless them if they were righteous and pious.

The Messenger (Sws) has explained to us how the Angel of Death seizes the souls and what he does with them after that.

Because the souls are kept with their Lord, He has appointed strong and skilled guardians over them. So they cannot escape from them or run away from them to come to thoese people who play with people's minds.

Some of them claim that they are summoning the soul of one of the righteous slaves of Allah, such as Prophets or martyrs. How could they leave the Gardens of eternal bliss (paraidse) and come to the darkened seance room? Allah has told us that the martyrs are alive with their Lord:

"Think not of those as dead who are killed in the way of Allah. Nay they are alive, with their Lord, and they have provision. [Qur'an 3:169]

The Messenger sws stated: "The souls of the martyrs are in the crops of green birds which have lamps hanging from the Throne. They wander about in Paradise wherever they wish, then they come back to these lamps. This narrated by Muslim in his Saheeh. So how can the liars of this age claim that they are summoning the souls of these people?

"Mighty is the word that comes out of their mouths. They utter nothing but a lie." [Qur'an 18:5]

A specious argument and the response to it

They say, how do you explain the fact that these spirits know some of the characteristics and deeds of the man whom they claim to be?

We say: the one who claims to be the spirits is in fact a devil. Perhaps this devil was the qareen who used to accompany that man. We have already mentioned the texts which indicate that every person has a devil-companion, and this qareen who constantly accompanies a person knows a lot about his characteristics, habit and attributes, and he knows about his relatives and his friends.

When the so-called spirit is asked a question, it is very easy for him to answer, because he is the qarreen and he knows all about that person. But if it is said, "How do you explain the academic answers which we get from these spirits?" we say, we have already mentioned that the devils and the jinn have academic abilities which enable them to give some answers. But their answers contain great misguidance, for they only answer us a little, if we trust them, they will direct us in evil and misguided ways leading to doom in this world and in Hereafter.