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Thanks for sharing that, that was interesting.  Hopefully he'll keep posting to let us know how it goes.  I'm surprised his female spirit stayed out of his bedroom because he told her to.  She might be respecting his wishes right now, but my guess is if she wants to go into his bedroom she probably still can.  I don't think setting boundarys with a spirit is going to work if the spirit decides it wants to do otherwise.  I don't think our words have the power to keep them out.  I've told my entities to leave and that they're not welcome in my home, but they just simply refuse to leave. 

If it's some kind of test I don't know what kind of test it would be.  Seems like a pretty cruel test to me.  They don't cause me fear during the day because I no longer fear them.  But they sometimes get in my dreams and cause me horrible nightmares.  Which turns out is quite common with spirit attachment cases.  You see, even if you're not afraid of them they can still cause you fear in your dreams because most of the time when you're dreaming you are not aware that it's a dream.  You think it's real.  So what often happens is I find myself in the dark and something jumps out at me and startles the excrement out of me.  Or someone or several people will start attacking me often with weapons trying to kill me.  And I'm running or fighting for my life. 

Every once in a while I'll have a nightmare where I realize it's them trying to scare me.  Like the other night I was dreaming someone was coming after me with an axe.  I realized it was a dream and stopped being afraid and I just let him swing that axe down on my head knowing that he couldn't hurt me.  Sometimes I overcome the fear in the dreams and sometimes I think the dream is real and so experience the fear.  I don't know how they get in my dreams like this.  It could be that because I'm hearing them while sleeping that I start dreaming about them.  Or it could be that my dreams take place on the astral plane and they somehow get into my dream because they're on the astral plane. 

It's been several days now since I've had one of these nightmares.  I don't think they just feed off of the energy of fear, they seem to enjoy causing people anxiety too.  For people that are hearing these negative entities, it's very common for the entities to try to keep you from sleeping.  And I don't care who you are, if someone is singing trying to keep you from sleeping, it's going to tinkle you off even if you hold it in and don't react.  It will cause some anxiety.  I never react anymore because I think they feed of low vibrational energy.  I try my hardest not to get angry.  But if you got a day or two without sleep it starts to get to you - the stress of having a spirit making noise all night long. 

If it's some kind of fear test, how are you expected to not be afraid all the time?  There's going to be times when you're having a nightmare and you don't know it's not real.  So it's only natural to feel fear when someone is coming at you with an axe.  There would have to be something wrong with you if you didn't feel fear under such circumstances.  I think it's just a case of me making a huge mistake 3 years ago and letting the spirits know I was hearing them and trying to communicate with them getting EVPs.  They never left me since.  That was the biggest mistake of my life. 

I have tried sending them love too actually a few times.  Sometimes when they tick me off by keeping me from sleeping, instead of getting angry (because I know they feed on negative energy) I pray to God to send them love and light and put his arms around them and remind them that they are loved.  But so far it doesn't seem to be getting rid of them or even stop them from trying to keep me from sleeping.  I haven't had a preacher pray for me, but I have personally prayed so much that it's not even funny.  Prayer doesn't seem to be working for me.  I have made my own holy water by prayer over water and blessing it. And then using the water to make crosses over every wall and door.  But that didn't help.   

I believe that your fears overwhelm you, and make you loose perspective and control. To get an upper hand on this you can suggest to yourself that you're covered and protected with "white light". This will give your subconscious some assurance, and will have the effect of diminishing your fears. On the non-physical realms, thoughts and emotions are real things, so you fight thought with thought.

No I am not overwhelmed by fear.  I don't even fear them any more.  But that doesn't stop them from bothering me.  I can hear them and there's no way to tune them out - it's extremely stressful.  Me and others in my group who can actually hear these entities have tried the white light protection and it does not work.  It has no effect on them.  Even Robert Bruce claims you can use your thoughts to effect them.  He suggests imaging violet fire to drive them away.  It doesn't work either.  From their voices we can tell that it doesn't seem to have any effect on them.  I have tried to fight them with my thoughts/imagination in different ways.  It just simply doesn't work.  I don't know why, but it doesn't. 

I've been able to hear spirits since May of 2016.  And I have 2 negative entities that won't leave me alone that I can't seem to get rid of no matter what I do.  I have a hard time sleeping because they will keep me up all night.  It's very stressful, you can't imagine.  They won't shut up and sometimes they even sing to keep me awake.  The doctor has labeled me schizophrenic because I hear voices.  But it's not a mental problem, it's a spiritual problem.  I have recorded the voices of the spirits that I hear and I have played these EVPs for other people and everybody can hear them clearly.  My mom, my dad, my brother, and friends can all hear the voices very clearly.  I've even played them for the therapist that the doctor has me seeing who was able to hear them clearly.  He said he would play them for the doctor.  But I was told that even if it is spirits I'm hearing, they still have to, by law, address the issue as if it's a mental or psychological problem. 

I have since found a facebook group of people like me who are all hearing voices and being tormented by negative spirits.  Some of them, like me have EVPs of their voices too and I have heard their recorded voices that they hear and they have heard mine.  They are clear enough that you can definitely hear actual voices.  It's not pareidolia.  When I write about this online there's always someone that trys to tell me that it's pareiodolia.  Trust me it's not.  I have even see apparitions of the spirits a couple of times.  I have felt them kick my bed or couch that I'm laying on multiple times.  I have heard and felt their foot steps as they walk across my living room floor and try to scare me.  And some of the people in our group even have physical sensations.  One guy has a negative entity bothering him that jabs or pocks him all the time.  And both of us have fought with our entities in the non-physical.  I have fought with the male entity that I hear on two separate occasions while in the non-physical.  I personally believe they're on the lower astral plane which is apparently close enough to the physical plane that some rare people like us are able to hear them.  We also believe that a lot of people who hear voices and are labeled schizophrenic are actually hearing negative spirit entities.  I would like to see some of these ghost hunters go into a mental hospital and get some EVPs of the voices that some of these people are hearing.  Then more and more people will begin to realize that a lot of these people are not crazy or imagining the voices they hear.  They just have spirit attachments.

I have prayed to God, Jesus, the holy spirit, angels, guardian angels, spirit guides, but none of them seem to be helping me get rid of these negative entities.  I've been dealing with this for about 3 years now and some of the people in our group have been dealing with theirs for even longer.  We have heard of a couple of people that managed to get rid of their entity attachments by calling upon Jesus for help, but it doesn't seem to work for us.  I rarely have conscious experiences in the non-physical.  But a while back I had a female spirit introduce herself as my spirit guide. 

I'm just desperate, and I'm wondering if there is anybody here that can astral project and summon my spirit guide and find out why they're not helping me get rid of these negative entities.  I don't expect you to fight them off or anything as they would probably just come right back later anyway.  But is there someone here that can communicate with my spirit guide and find out what is going on, why my guide isn't helping me, and how I can get rid of them?

I'm not trying to make anybody afraid of astral projection by talking about negative entities.  None of us acquired these negative entities from astral projection.  None of us astral project.  If anything, I think being able to astral project could help us get some answers and solutions.  I just can't seem to project for the life of me.  Except once in a blue moon while sleeping. 

Is it possible, while in the non-physical, to request to see someone else's spirit guide?  Is that possible? 

I'll try that next time.  Trying to push it away from me wasn't doing any good. 

I actually forgot something else that happened.  For some reason, reading that post jogged my memory.  At one point in the non-physical there was this thing in front of me.  It had legs and arms, but no head, hands, or feet.  I don't know what it was - it didn't look like an actual being.  But for some reason it kept clinging to me.  I would try to push it away and get it off of me, but it just kept sticking to me like a magnet. Reminds me of one of Robert Monroe's experiences.  Is that a test too?

As I slept last night, I had some experiences in the non-physical.  First I was watching these big beings that didn't look human coming out of a building.  I didn't know what they were.  For some reason I asked them if they were angels.  i don't know why I asked that because they didn't even look like angels.  I don't think they were.  I didn't get a clear response from them.  I don't know why I wasn't afraid of them, but for some reason it never occurred to me to be afraid of them. 

I was seeing some building that I was familiar with, but oddly some of the buildings and structures i was seeing shouldn't be there.  So I thought I must be seeing into the future.  I was with a few people, but I don't recall who, and asked them what year it was.  They didn't tell me.  This has happened to me many times in other non-physical experiences.  I find myself somewhere and something is different which leads me to believe I'm seeing the future or another place, but when I ask where I am or what year it is, I don't usually get a response.  Why am I having these kinds of experiences?  Are these experiences some kind of test?  I think it was the book OtherWhere that talked about how guides test us.  They put us in an environment to see if we'll become lucid or continue to lose ourselves in the dream.  Maybe they are showing me some buildings that are familiar to me and then mixing in some that are out of place to see if it triggers me to become lucid or whether I keep dreaming.  Is this normal for guides to test us like that?

Then I found myself in the presence of a female being who was whisking me off to another place.  I have heard about this happening to other people in astral projection books.  I asked if she was my guide and she said yes, and told me her name which was something like DeDe Jean.  It's about freaken time I had a guide introduce themselves.  I was beginning to think I didn't have a guide. 

She took me to a spot that was hard to describe.  It was like I was on a roof but it was a closed in area.  There were lots of plants around and I noticed a paint roller in my hand.  I thought - I know what this is, it's a test to see if I lose myself in the dream imagery or whether I become lucid.  I also remember that book talking about how your guides will put you in a closed in place and see if you can make it out of the place or whether you get lost in dreaming.  If you make it out of the closed in space you are free to travel in OtherWhere - non-physical locations outside the dream zone.  Knowing that it might be a test, I saw a door and I was going to try to leave the closed in space, but then I woke up. 

Anyway, why am I just now seeing a guide when I haven't before?  And why are they now starting to test me?

That's nice toward those who took their time to reply to you. Why did you start a conversation if you knew that all the others don't know either?

I didn't know if they knew or not, I was hoping they did.  Sorry if that sounded rude.  But from the last few comments, it sounds like Volgerie and EscapeVelocity might have the answer - we can be aware of both at the same time.  I guess that's the answer, I don't know what else could explain it. 

I don't think investigating myself is going to help me understand this one any better.  I have astral projected in my sleep a few times and I still don't understand it. I'm not sure anybody else here does either.  That's why I'm getting answers like this.  Unfortunately it is very rare for me to become conscious in the non-physical.  I am currently recording my dreams and trying to become conscious in my dreams, but not having much luck.  At night I listen to Robert Monroes hemi snyc recordings but that's not working yet either. Although I did feel the vibration stage last night. 

Kurt Leland says that we are growing and evolving spiritually. I guess this is the purpose of life.  He said people who have been astral projecting for a long time, over time graduate from one body and plane to the next.  Just as he did and as Robert Monroe did throughout his three books.  And as we go to higher and higher planes we get closer and closer to returning to Source/God. 

So does anybody know how we grow spiritual so that we can rise to the next body and plane?  What is required of us?  Is the requirement different for each plane?  And how does reincarnation factor in to all of this? 

To me, everything is an illusion or dream including physical reality.  An illusion means something that isn't really real, but that is perceived.  A dream means the same thing.  I personally don't care for the term projection, because it implies that something is projected outward upon something else like a screen.  And that requires space and space is also an illusion. 

A Course In Miracles says that we are at home in heaven (One with Source) dreaming of exile.  Dreaming of separation.  All bodies and forms exist within the great dream.  And anything that takes up a definite space is a body, including your automobile.  To me, life is but a dream.  As are all the other planes of existence which are made up of bodies and forms.  Some experts say that reality is like a holographic simulation.  That is just another way of saying the same thing. 

Kurt Leland says that if you're in the etheric body you will have a cord that connects it to the physical body and you won't be able to move but a few yards away from your physical body.  And if you're in the astral body you probably won't see a cord unless you're dreaming one up and you will be able to move further away from the physical body.  If this is correct, I don't think I've ever experienced the etheric body either.  I have heard though that it's been proven that when we are asleep, one of our bodies floats a couple feet above the physical body.  But that doesn't necessary prove that we don't go anywhere.  I suspect this is the etheric body and our consciousness might be off in the astral plane in our astral body while the etheric just floats a little detached from the physical body, but who knows. 

I really don't know how to restate my question any further.  It just seems to me that there are separate bodies for the separate planes.  If dreams take place on the astral plane in our astral body, and the physical reality dream takes place on the physical plane in our physical body, then how did I dream from the physical body?  My physical body wasn't asleep yet and the astral body hadn't separated yet, yet i still had dream imagery going on in my mind.  That's all I'm saying. 

I understand that everything is an illusion or projection.  That is the ultimate truth.  Time and space is an illusion.  Everything in the physical and the non-physical is ultimately an illusion.  All the different planes of existence are illusions as are the bodies we have in each.  But to me, that doesn't explain it.  We are living within the illusion, so why are we talking about it from outside the illusion?  In this great illusion of life we seem to have different bodies for different planes. And if I'm just wondering how I could be dreaming from my physical body and not my astral body in the illusion. 

I've read Xanth's post and book, so I'm familiar with his theory that dreams, lucid dreams, and astral projections are all different levels of awareness in the non-physical.  And this made sense to me - I've even experienced shifting between all three in the same OBE.  So it did seem that all three were OBEs just with different levels of awareness. 

But, there have been times like yesterday when I layed down on the couch and with in moments I found myself dreaming up something behind my closed eye lids.  Then I opened my eyes again and I know for a fact that I did not project out of my body while dreaming that short dream.  Think about daydreams as another example.  We're not out of the physical body and in the non-physical when daydreaming, so how could ALL dreams be OBEs with a lower level of awareness?  It seems like some dreams are taking place behind closed eyes while still in the body.  So how do you explain this? 

I know when I shifted through all three states (levels of awareness) I didn't go from dream awareness back to vibrating and separating before realizing I was out of my body.  I didn't have to separate from the body, it was as if I was already separated and in the non-physical all along and just shifted my awareness.  But I have heard someone else report that they went from dreaming to vibrating and separating before realizing they were out of their body. 

So how could ALL dreams be OBEs?

When a person dies and goes through the tunnel, it sounds like their going to a higher plane.  It's like this worm hole opens up for them and after they go through it, it disappears again.   I've heard that the light at the end of the tunnel is the light from that higher plane.  Does anybody ever go through a tunnel when going to a lower plane? 

I guess if you raise your vibration you can shift to the next higher up plane. And if you lower your vibration you can shift to the next lower plane.  But if you want to shift through multiple planes at a time, a worm hole or tunnel opens up for you.  At least if your shifting to a higher plane.  Does that sound about right?

I remember reading in a book one time that in today day and age people often pass through a tunnel when they die.  But apparently in other times and cultures they didn't see themselves going through a tunnel.  Instead they saw themselves crossing over a bridge or perhaps taking a boat from one place to another.  Could it be that the tunnel and these other images are just images we see when we shift through planes to a higher plane?

Even in the physical, time and space are apparently illusions, but yet it is still our experience that there is space.  We experience it in the physical and in the non-physical, so it would be nice if there was an explanation that fit our experience. 

In Lelands book he mentions that some of these NP places have been created by the people that have been going there and that the creation has so much power behind it from the combined minds that made it that it will still be there in a million years even if nobody feeds it by going there.  I think the Egyptian area he went to was one of those places.  It's still there even though very few go there anymore.  So it's not like these places are thought up one second and then dissipate back into nothingness as as you leave.  I assume some of our dreams are like that.  But these places sound solid like physical reality.  And in our physical reality construct things take up space. 

Btw, who or what is MDH?

So what is the tunnel and light at the end of the tunnel all about?  People sharing their near death experiences often report this, but today on another forum I heard a guy say he experienced this and it doesn't sounds like his experience was a near death experience.  It sounded like he was just having an non-physical experience.  Is that normal for people to experience this in their astral projection experiences?  I thought we just experience it when we die.  What do you reckon this tunnel is exactly? 

This is my second time reading Otherwhere and I like it a lot better this time around.  In fact, it's the best book I've ever read on astral projection. 

In his book, he does mention that the after death zone is made up of different frequencies like television channels and that depending upon what your religious beliefs were in life that will determine what region or frequency you end up in.  So it sounds like all possibilities exist in the same space just overlapping in different frequencies.  Perhaps it's the same in the dream zone and in all the zones.  But if everybody who is dreaming is dreaming on a separate frequency, that sure is a lot of frequencies.  Sounds kind of impossible really. 

It sounds like we don't have much control over it.  It either happens or it doesn't.  You can't just decide you want to know what someone is thinking and then tune into their thoughts? 

EscapeVelocity, you mentioned that receiving information telepathically can come as a download, like a packet of information.  I think I've experienced this a couple of times while in my physical body.  If you've heard of Abraham Hicks, they talk about being tuned in, tapped in, turned on - or in the Vortex as Abraham calls it.  Or in other words, you're high up on the emotional scale, feeling really good.  And in moments like that I have had inspired ideas come to me.  One time I even got the idea for two books that I could write at some point.  Including ideas for the different chapters.  It just all came flooding into my mind at once. 

Why would anybody buy her recordings when she links to a 10:00 min sample of each of them on Youtube?  You can just loop the video and listen to that couldn't you? 

I'm reading Kurt Lelands book "Otherwhere", and he shares some of his stories in the non-physical.  In one story he was going to visit a shadow world as he calls it, and the guide was able to read his thoughts.  I guess communication in the non-physical is actually in the form of telepathy. 

So does that mean even when we dream that we're talking to someone like we do in the physical that it's actually happening telepathically?

And how does reading someone's thoughts work in the non-physical?  I'm assuming you can't read everybody's thoughts at the same time because that would be too overwhelming.  So I'm assuming you would have to focus upon making a connection with the person somehow in order to read their thoughts?  Has anybody here ever experienced reading someone else's thoughts in the non-physical?  How do you do that? 

In Kurt Lelands's book "Otherwear", he says there is a region in the non-physical reserved for people who are dreaming.  He calls it the Dream Zone. Just as there is a region for people who have just died.  He calls that the After Death zone.  So I have a couple of questions about this.   

1.  There are billions of people dreaming at the same time, how are our dreams in the dream zone kept separate? 

2.  I have heard of people having shared dreams.  Is this rare, or are most of our dreams overlapping with other people's dreams?

3.  How do the gatekeepers or whatever you want to call them, keep billions of dreamers in the dream zone?  That doesn't seem like an easy task. 

I really don't understand all of that, but thanks for trying to explain that to me. 

With sounds we have doe, re, mi, fa, so, la, ti, and back to doe.  The second doe sounds very similar to the first doe because it's the same note double the Hz.  So if the first doe is 60Hz, the second is 120Hz.  So there is 7 notes per octave.  And with colors there is the rainbow of red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet.  Again, 7 before they repeat again and higher or lower octaves.  I guess that's how I see these sub-dimension, not as nested dimensions, but as different degrees of the octave.  Someone said each plane has seven sub-planes.  Maybe there isn't really a correlation there, that's just what comes to my mind when I think about it. 

Its easier to imagine the concept downwards from our dimension rather than upwards into the unknown.

I don't know about that.  Wouldn't upwards be a higher vibration like the astral plane?  I've experienced that so I can imagine that.  But lower then the earth plane, that I can't imagine. 

Could it really be that the mind of God is the computer generating all of these virtual realities?  We have all of these patterns that they find in nature which seem to indicate that nature is very mathematical.  Which seems to imply that its all computer generated. But would the mind of God really think or create mathematically?  I wouldn't think so.   

So there is just no order to the nonphysical planes at all, except how we order it with our imagination? 

We talk about subjective and objective reality.  I realize that there is less objective reality in these nonphysical planes, but if there is even just a little bit of objective reality to them then there must be some sense of order.  If these nonphysical planes also have laws and rule sets, then it stands to reason that there should be some way to order these planes in a way that is not subjective. 

On page 31 of "Gone West", there is this diagram of the Spirit Plane. It's not a real good diagram, but it's the only diagram I've seen of the nonphysical.  That's what I want to see.  I'm not talking about a map which shows locations in space, but a diagram that shows all the different planes (the astral planes, the spiritual planes, the mental planes, the celestrial planes, or however many there are.)  And the sub-planes of each plane.  I would like to know where is this place they called "summerland", where is the place they call "twilight zone", where is the place where people shed their astral bodies.  Where is the belief system territories.  Where is the celestrial heavens.  Where is the hell planes.  What goes on in all these different planes.  What kind of people do you find in all these different planes.  And ultimately what I would really like to know, is how to discern what plane you're experiencing when you're experiencing the nonphysical.   

If every plane does exist in a different frequency, why wouldn't the higher frequency planes be closer to Source and the lower frequency (dense planes) be farther from Source? 

I believe Tom Campbell says all these planes/frequencies are virtual realities and that the computer computing them has to exist outside the virtual realities.  Where is this computer?  Is it God/Source?   Is God outside these virtual realities?  And is that our ultimate reality - Oneness with God? 

It's not going to let me add an image, so here's the book "gone west". Page 31 has a diagram of the spirit planes. 
https://new-birth.net/media/cms_page_media/220/Gone_West.pdf