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I read somewhere a while ago that nothing is infact something, God is possible to exist out of nowhere, I find it hard to comprehend that he existed for infinities past.  Unless we don't have the faculties to understand how it is possible for him to just exist without a beginning.

Its very hard to comprehend, as humans we are born into what seems to be a straight forward linear world of time and cause and effect. Although the brain allows us to imagine things beyond this its usually attributed to fiction. Its important to realise that if a god exists, that can create anything, thats infinite in its control, then the current rules of logic and all the rules of the universe go out the window.. A god that created this universe with its rules, doesnt necessarily live by them. It may even be that beginning and end dont exist, that time doesnt exist, in the realms of gods.

Its this very inability to comprehend such complex thoughts, and the lack of understanding in general within humans that i think supports the need for being open-minded. For how can we close ourselves off to other possibilities if the very thing we supposedly believe in we're not even close to fully understanding or explaining.

I was under the impression that the quote button was there to make it easier and less confusing when addressing a post. Especially a post with many points... If id been made aware that certain mods didnt like it i would have avoided its use .

Sorry ive just realised im kinda hijacking this thread, Id imagine by the title its meant more to persuade athiests to be open-minded and not as much to persuade religious people to be more open-minded?

rooj the heart beats approximately 7000 times per hour

Ahh you mistyped your first post and said minutes.

the earth is actually at a perfect distance from the sun. a Distance such that life may exist. According to our theorietical views life cannot exist withotut he basic nessesities such as oxygen and water. We know this fact because nothing on this earth has proven to coexist without the basic nessesities.

As i already stated, even if the earth is perfect within a millemeter (which i HIGHLY doubt) it doesnt change the fact that the chances of one of the likely trillions of planets in the universe being that perfect is reasonable, id image lots of them are in a good position to form life, why would you necessarily have to bring a god into this. I already addressed the nessesities of life, which i also found doesnt require a god.

On the basis of mountains. The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) who lived between 570 and 632 A.C. is quoted to have said that "When Allah created the Earth, it started to shake and jerk, then Allah stabilized it by the mountains."

http://www.amse.net/The%20Geological%20Concept/Summary%20and%20Conclusion.htm

Read that article about the seismic impacts of mountains on the structure of the earth

I had a feeling that article would be based on the religion..
it took me about 2 minutes to find this site:

http://answering-islam.org/Campbell/s4c2a.html

let me quote a bit:

From these pictures it is clear that Muhammad's followers understood that the Mountains were thrown down
(a) like tent pegs to keep a tent in place.
(b) like an anchor to hold a ship in place.
(c) to stop the earth from moving. i.e. limit earthquakes,
But, in fact, this is false. Earthquakes are common events associated with the forming of mountains.
Since these verses present a definite problem, after quoting several of the above verses about mountains Dr. Bucaille says,
"Modern geologists describe the folds in the Earth as giving foundations to the mountains, and their dimensions go roughly one mile to roughly 10 miles. The stability of the Earth's crust results from the phenomenon of these folds."

But is this true? Commenting on Dr. Bucaille's statement, Professor of Geology, Dr. David A. Young says,
"While it is true that many mountain ranges are composed of folded rocks (and the folds may be of large scale) it is not true that the folds render the crust stable. The very existence of the folds is evidence of instability in the crust."[1]
In other words, Mountains don't keep the earth from shaking. Their formation caused and still causes the surface of the earth to shake.

My point is not to disprove your point, its to highlight the fact that information is biased depending on where you read it.

What I am trying to proejct to you is how perfect our unvierse is. Perfection doesnt happen due to an accident or some sort of evolutional cycle. Perfection is made by a perfect being I.E God almighty!

K, firstly there's no such thing as perfection, perfection is a concept, and its different for everyone, we know very little about the universe so labelling it as perfect is, i hope you agree, a bit extreme. I also answered this point about earth being well suited for life in order to show you another perspective, ill quote it incase you missed:

The flaw in your thinking is that life HAD to live on earth and so it was up to earth to be perfect or no life would exist. From another perspective life evolved on earth "BECAUSE" of the right conditions, it could have/might have evolved on many other planets around the universe too.

Im not asking you to believe this perspective, just to be aware that its a possibility and could potentially be true. You dont seem to recognize my points as potentially valid, you just back yours up. So i ask you, is there a possibility that this point may be true?

I am sure of God existence lol I don't see why that is wrong? I have faith for sure but logic plays a good portion of my beliefs.

Theres nothing wrong with faith, its great that you have something to believe in, just true logic should also tell you that other possibilities exist no matter how strongly you believe.

I don't think it is logical that we came into exsitence by some explosion which eventually SOMEHOW created bacterium which evolved into compelx species. I mean nowhere in scientifical records do we see speciies mtuate into compelx forms. I believe in genetic mutation but to the extent of what darwinists claim is absolutely absurd.

Yet its completely logical to presume that some entity thats been around forever one day decided to create everything we now know out of smoke?. I stress again im agnostic, i dont doubt this as a possibility, but the fact that you see it as obvious worries me, how can you possibly believe that its obvious? you base all your beliefs in life on one book dated 1400 years? You can talk about how we are yet to prove mutation into complex lifeforms, but that doesnt in anyway prove that god exists, it just proves science has holes its yet to fill in. Whether they be that a god created earth and its creatures, or that some kind of evolution did.

This is what the God revelead to humanity 1400 years ago on the creation of the unvierse. there are many verses saying that the universe started out as nothingness, then he made it a cloud of smoke which expanded into life itself. You must admitt this is pretty significant? How a man living in Arab 1400 years ago could have said such things....

1400 years ago isn't along time, humans were just as intelligent then as they are now, minus the technology obviously. Why couldnt someone imagine this as a possibility? And it isnt exactly detailed in its explanation to be perfectly honest .

Anyways, I can see where this is headed, so i want to say the following:
Please realise you dont have to, and cant prove anything to me. Dont feel you need to justify your beliefs to me, im not testing you or your religion, im simply pointing out that as a human on this earth theres no way that anyone can prove this either way, and therefore you MIGHT be wrong. This isn't something you can fight against, im not taking a side, im smack in the middle as an agnostic. If god exists its only god that can TRULY know the truth, you believe what you have read and heard strongly, but your NOT a god, and so cant truly know beyond all doubt. This is why when you discuss your religion without flexibility, when you believe without any form of openmindedness, you just appear arrogant to others.

As far as the story goes: I didnt read all of it, no offence but i dont have as deep a knowledge of the quraan as you and therefore cant verify that the quotes are accurate. Also from what little ive read the site http://answering-islam.org.uk seems to prove at least some of the quotes wrong, parts of the quraan that for instance say the earth was spread out flat.

Im wondering why you find it so hard to believe in a god but to also realise your not all-knowing and therefore might be wrong in your assumptions. And I know i seem negative on your views and opinions, but I assure you id have the same stance talking with a die-hard christian, or a die-hard athiest etc.

Congrats  . I recently came up with a similar technique,
Id imagine myself sat cross legged on a hill overlooking a body of water, kinda like this: http://www.bighornweb.com/stockphotos/stock-lakes-05.jpg but greener, no bare rock, just heather n stuff (kinda scottish-like)
I imagined that the water and sky reflected how i was feeling, so the calmer the water, the calmer i was. When i felt anything like anger or anxiety id see that the water was rough, full of waves crashing about and the sky was ripped with fast moving black rolling clouds, possibly rain too. I see that its my feelings that cause this chaos. I then picture the water getting calmer and eventually still, and at the same time the clouds breaking and beams of sunlight getting through.

My idea was obviously anchoring the bad feelings to the conditions in my visualization and as i reduce the conditions, i reduce the feelings. Im yet to fully test this out (only used it about 3 times) but it seemed to do the trick for me  .

Im going to commit your technique to memory too, i always find the power of visualization fascinating.

bewarevileye:
Although i agree with your post its also important for you to understand that athiests may infact be right in their views. Whether they're right or not I agree that at this point in time its much better to be open-minded as there simply isn't the evidence to prove it either way.

Jeehad, although im agnostic im gonna take a more athiest role with this response as its easier to show flaws in your thinking .

Jeehad:

Our heat beats 7,000 times per minute pumping rounds of blood in seconds, that testifies to his existense.

When resting your heart will beat about 70 - 100 times per minute.. not 7000.. Your blood will circulate about 3 times per minute, apparently.

The Earth is in ane xact location that if we were to move a milimeter from its orbital point we would freeze or burn, that is testifyign to God almighty.

I highly doubt this to be true, and id like to see evidence. If it is true what you have to remember is if it was that millimeter out, as billions of planets probably are, life wouldnt have evolved. Its only because this planet is perfect that life evolved.. What im trying to say is in all the hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy alone, the probability that one of them was going to be well placed for life was likely quite high (thats not counting the hundreds of billions of other galaxies), Id actually be suprised if not one planet in the universe was capable of sustaining life wouldnt you?

The mountains are palces in exact co ordenance with eachother so that they hold the earth together, that testifies to God almighty.

I think gravity has a larger part to play in holding the earth together

Our basic nessesities such as water,earth,food are all contained on this planet. The cycle of life is in perfect balance with eachother.

Yet again ill say that if the basic nessesities wern't available life wouldnt exist.. of course the nessesities are going to be here, otherwise we wouldnt be. The dinosaurs are a proof of what would happen if the nessesities were missing thus disrupting the balance of life (and of course its happened in the past.. to earth).

The flaw in your thinking is that life HAD to live on earth and so it was up to earth to be perfect or no life would exist. From another perspective life evolved on earth "BECAUSE" of the right conditions, it could have/might have evolved on many other planets around the universe too.

How can an accident? Or even a random series of chaos be able to produce such a perfect universe? ONLY if this "Accident" or series of events was perfect in every aspect of its existence. The one who created us is the ever perfect, the merciful, the masterful, the mighty, the great..... God.

This is the whole point here.. but just because you cant understand "How an accident, Or even a random series of chaos is able to produce such a perfect universe" doesnt mean that suddenly a god has to be involved. At the current time the data simply isnt available to answer such a complex question. Humans probably arn't even close to intelligent enough to solve this problem yet. I respect your beliefs but just as bewarevileye pointed out, that athiests should try to be open minded about things, so should people who believe in god such as yourself. Its when you realise you cant possibly know for sure, that you start to respect other peoples beliefs and can share your views without preaching. Its not about you 'stopping' your belief in god, its about realising that even though your damn sure, you may not in fact be right  .

Nice, Ive been meaning to look through and make my own collection of his posts for some time, good work Gandalf.
If your open to suggestions It would be nice if we could beef up the 'how to phase' part. Ive read some amazing posts concerning rundowns for instance which dont seem to be covered.

Keep up the good work,
Roo

Sorry but the first video is definitely a fake.. The creator was on a documentary i saw not so long ago explaining how he made it.. Second definitely looks like an airship or hot airballoon.

Has anyone ever saw the video took from space that shows 2 streaks heading up from earth (like weapons fire) and something like a craft darting away and avoiding them?

Edit: While on the subject.. has anyone played 'Weird'? the big interactive game/database of fortean things.. Packed full of videos and documents.. its amazing  .

An amazing and beautiful experience.. Im in awe.. thats one of those experiences that will stay with you forever and i thank you for sharing it. Oh, the DMT connection.. apparently DMT is naturally found in the body, so maybe there is a connection. Maybe its an AP lubricant or something..

Sorry.. this reply really doesnt do your experience justice but im sure others will jump in behind me  .

>Roo

help... cant... stop.. making patterns... its like a temporary prison for the easily amused..

Personally im not sure, i can argue for and against fate just as easily. Im at a stage where i dont believe in fate.. but i also dont believe we have true freewill.

To be honest i dont think humans have the required knowledge to truly understand anyway. I dont think we have the neccassery information to answer many of the questions we pose to ourselves, the brain can only process and manipulate information it already has. Its impossible to imagine a colour we dont already know for instance, its impossible for a blind person to visualize, the brain isnt capable of thinking outside of the box, it just processes and uses information already stored. Soooo.. if the answer cant be found by manipulating and playing with the information we already have.. then simply the answer cant be found

To make it more interesting im gonna pick a side.. I pick no freewill  .
Put simply from everything I currently know, i cant think of anyway that freewill and choice can be truly possible.. and due to possible paradoxes i dont believe any highly intelligent creature can be predictable. Ill also add that i dont think it matters, the illusion of freewill will never be shattered because when we make a choice, even though its not really free, its always the choice we want to make given the variables present.. The reason for this is because wanting isnt a free choice either, we dont choose what we want, we just agree with the choice, and we only agree because the brain kicks out the chemicals that make us agree... infact we are the brain.

Its interesting that i found this thread because i recently came across a passage of text id written some time ago just spilling my mind into notepad.. i appologise for the poor grammer as i havn't attempted to clean it up in anyway.

On a quantum level the universe isn't predictable.. and i think this filters up somewhat making the universe on a macro level unpredictable.. Einstein was wrong  .. but we don't have freewill.. our will seems like ours because it is our will.. thats what we want to choose.. but we only want to choose it because of things out of our control... therfore the act of wanting isnt in our control.. we cant do anything we dont want to do.. and before you say you dont want to go to work understand your not looking deep enough.. the thought of not liking or wanting to work is completely different to the deep down choices we make to go to work anyway.. and these choices are made analysing all the data available.. you need the money.. you must work.. you dont need the money.. you dont work... you dont need the money.. you do.. BUT.. theres an underlining reason you did.. yes you say.. theres always a reason for everything we do.. but we choose depending on if we need to go for instance.. well you dont make that choice.. your brain is automated.. the data is weighed up.. it pumps the chemicals that make you feel.. it processes your senses.. and i know.. your brain is you.. but its automated.. and you end up feeling like you, for instance, have to go even though you hate it.. and so you think you have chosen to go anyway.. but you didnt.. and you did... your automated.. you dont control you.. you dont choose.. but because you are your brain, in a way you do.. because its the way you look at "you".. your not something beyond the universe, your just the universe unfolding.. just like when the big bang happened... or the majestic swirl of galaxies.. your running the same algorithm that runs in everything.. just the algorithm is forever evolving and grouping and looking and seeming more complicated.. its became unpredictable.. the algorithms became so complex its beginning to understand and question itself.. its trying to understand itself and thats where we come in.. just another evolved route.. a direction.. a stream or path this algorithm has spawned completely unconciously.. the purpose of so called life.. may be just to understand..

I must say it was written along time ago and i dont fully agree with it, im more open minded and tend not to pick sides in debates by pure instinct or belief alone. Also none of the above takes in the possibility of something beyond the physical universe.. but the above is headache inducing enough. I love this topic 

>RooJ

I bow down to that guy.........impressive that he was able to hack into that

Hardly.. If the admins are stupid enough to use blank passwords they deserve to be hacked.. Its amazing how government servers can be so poorly protected.. especially with the money these admins must be on.. At least it shows theres plenty of jobs for future security specialists  .

Strange, I cant really help you but ive had some similarly bizarre things happen in the last 2 days. Yesterday morning i awoke dreaming that a collegue, who's been off ill long term (about 6 month), and who i havnt spoken to since she was last in, turned up at work. I get in and find her in the office.. she was in to have meetings about a return back to work.

today i awoke with the thought, seemingly out of knowwhere, that another collegue of mine would be late into work.. now i must add this guy is never late. I get in to work and he's not there... he had an accident skating and due to his limping arrived 30 mins later then he normally would.

Just thought id share.. maybe theres something in the air lately  .

>RooJ

Ive been down and confused in the past, never suicidal though. I went through a stage (year or two) of having anxiety or panic attacks. I got through it by changing the way i viewed the world.
One day you realise that life isnt the job you have or the courses you've been on.  I think as humans we tend to become too focussed on the "human" way of life, the money, the flash cars and the whole looking perfect thing. Its easy to forget that most of it is just a world within the real world.. our own little human existence cut off from the universe.
Its sad but you see people who become really ill because of it, my ex-boss had 3 heart attacks through stress because her job was her life.
It sounds corny but if i ever feel down i usually just look up at the stars or check out the astronomy picture of the day archive ->http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html and that has a nice effect of reminding me that theres so much more beyond the world we've created and wrapped around ourselves (coupled with instant chillout and de-stress).

So yeah.. im not denying we cant live without making money, but forget about careers for now and think of something you enjoy doing.. start from there. Maybe get a part time job and then focus more on hobbies and through that you may meet someone with similar interests etc.

>RooJ

Yeah, most of the dream objects in my lucids feel solid and real. I can walk through walls but in the past it was a struggle.. The way i achieved it was the same way i achieved the ability to fly really well in lucid dreams, I stopped 'trying' to walk through the wall and just walked through it.
I know this sounds kinda 'matrix'esc but seriously, ive found the more you think about trying to do it the harder it gets. Your mind doesnt like the thought of you being able to walk through walls or fly, its just too alien to it... If i want to walk through walls i just do it, i dont think "this is possible because im dreaming", i dont prepare myself, i just do it.. Same with flying, i just take a jump and im away, flying like a bullet or/w.

The more you analyse, the more you allow the sensible everyday part of your brain to kick in and doubt your abilities. If you dont think about what you're doing too much you should get better results... hopefully  

Oh, and on a side note, if that doesnt work for you, you can try to imagine the door is made out of liquid or something.

Maybe it's just my lack of imagination that I can't have lucid dreams where I'm for example king in the medieval village etc.

If you find yourself in a dream you would rather not be in and want to change scene you might want to try the doorway method. As you get to a door in your lucid dream imagine that beyond it is a medieval village, castle, mountainside, lake, beach etc.. imagine that your in a beach hut for example, expect bright sunshine, green palms, a white sandy beach and nice warm turquoisy waters. Then open and walk through the door, hopefully you will find yourself within your chosen destination, if not then try again or something  .

Hope this helps,

>RooJ

Im not sure i got an answer to this before but has anyone tried writing a letter to Frank himself? If someones minding his house you may be able to communicate with them, and incase the address he gave in his newsletter isnt correct you could add a returns address... "if not delivered please return to...."
You could also address it to "the occupier" requesting information incase Frank isn't there.

Another method of contacting him could be to search the infobel whitepapers for his address, if its in there you can get his phone number from it.
http://www.infobel.com/france/wp/search/result.asp?FIRSTREC=5%20&QCITY=salernes%20&QCODE=20457954

Just ideas...

>RooJ

After all this time without any communication I think hes dead personally.

That would be my guess aswell, or seriously ill.. maybe a coma or something. Really with the information we have it wouldn't be too hard to find him. Maybe ill go searching during the summer, France is just a hop across the channel. I think if he has died he'd want someone to find him so they can rescue his (possibly unfinished) ebook from his computer. It would be a shame if all that hard work and important information went to waste, just think, its likely sat there on an old harddrive in some store room now, potentially never to be read by anyone else.

His site is still up catmeow:
http://www.astralprojectiontruth.com

Should it not be taken down though??, DNS admin is still registered as adrian@cooper.net, aka Adrian Cooper from the astralpulse?

p.s.
Nay, may i ask why your no longer moderator :\.

$300 multiplied by how many people?... maybe this is part of the course... a lesson in not giving out lots of money to people you dont know, he was always against mystics who charged for information you could find on the web [/sarcasm]

I say everyone who lost out to frank should put a little bit of money together and hire a private detective to track Frank down...
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=private+detective&meta=
Not that its a good idea, but because ive always wanted to hire a private detective ...

kiwibonga,
First time ive read your OBE14 article, it looks very interesting. I know your after critisism and i may be able to supply some but only after ive tried your methods. Before i start i was wondering how successful it was for you? did the armtrick drive you to sleep paralysis at any point?

CFTraveler,
When i said 'new' technique, i meant new for me. I use the journey method (method of the current world memory champion). I found the method very easy and quick to pick up.
To learn it i suggest this page:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/getsmarter/brainsmartstore.shtml
Just scroll down to journey method. Ill also add that i use the same journey (mine and a few friends houses) each time and i have yet to confuse lists with previous ones.
Where the normal journey method is easy to pickup and use (and everyone should learn it), playing cards are slightly harder to remember due to them being composed of the same repeating numbers and suits in different order.
The way i got around this was to remember objects instead of cards, objects that represented individual cards and where easy to translate. The objects i chose had to begin with the first letter of the suit and had to look like the number (in nearly all cases). e.g. 8 of spades = snowman, 6 of clubs = club (golf), 9 of diamonds = dandilion.

Once i had my objects i then stored 3 at each location in the journey as a small event style thing :\... e.g. ace (1) of clubs = carrot, 9 of spades = sunflower, 5 of hearts = hook... So imagine at location 1 a carrot falling from a sunflower and getting caught on a hook. Then you can just translate each object back later.

I realise the above is probably confusing and seems like alot of work but trust me its not. I only learnt the method a few weeks ago and have used it about 5 times, the 5th allowing me to remember the order of 54 shuffled cards.

>RooJ

Creating strong nerve pathways isn't exactly an ability while you are sleeping. By the time you wake up, all that remains for your physical self is what has connected or reinforced the already stronger nerves in your brain.

Im not sure i agree with this, on many occasions ive had dreams, lucid and normal, where ive remembered what seemed like an entire hour of adventures. Many of the dreams are as much bizarre and extraordinary as they are everyday scenarios so i cant see how a pathway could already exist for that.

Apart from that Id agree there's definitely something inhibiting the creation of memory when dreaming. Id imagine the reason we dont usually remember dreams very well is an evolutionary thing. Its so easy for memories to become "corrupt" or confused, if we remembered dreams perfectly everynight theres a good chance we may mistake them for real happenings... or it may effect previous memories. I for one have woke up thinking i had to do something only to realise an hour later that it was a dream. In the human races distant past it may have been more of a burden having the ability to clearly recall dreams.

Talking of memory i recently learned a new technique of remembering lists. I can remember the exact order of an entire deck of 54 shuffled playing cards in about 10 - 15 minutes only looking at each card once and recalling them back in any order . Its not very suitable but I may look into using this technique to remember key points in a dream and hopefully that will help me to recall the dream in its entirety.

>RooJ

Im pretty good at dream flight, i have little or no problems usually, when it comes to flying straight up however i struggle. One of three things normally happens when i attempt a true vertical takeoff. Either i hit some invisible ceiling and cant get any higher, i fall back down after a certain height, or everything goes black and ill then wake myself to write the dream down.

Hope this helps,

>RooJ

Very interesting, were you lucid during this?

info on Ion drives:
http://nmp.nasa.gov/ds1/tech/ionpropfaq.html

RooJ

and only actually developed emotions when he was a teenager

Babies naturally express a certain amount of emotion, they smile, laugh and cry, feel happy and sad.. and thats without parents intervention. Whether you like it or not humans are born with emotion, its a defence mechanism and an evolutionary step which allows us to avoid dangers and to trust and love friends and family.

Saying this i'd still like to read about it, shame you cant remember the name   .

I think its very possible, ive been lucky enough to experience some unbelievably real lucid dreams so i tend to take a more open minded approach.

I think alot of it comes down to belief as it seems to be near impossible to prove either way, i know the mind is capable of producing experiences this powerful, whether you can put all experiences down to dreams is another matter.

>RooJ

If you go to Darrens site on channel4.com he actually tells you how he does a few of the tricks.
For the phonebox one read this:

http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/M/mindcontrol/trick/phone.html

In this case(the africans) they desire to live.(if they didn't why would they continue to reproduce themself,because they enjoy pain?)and to live in there case means they suffer from diseases we in the eastern world have conquered a long time ago.

I fail to see your point, you can find virus's in every country of the world, virus's like TB can still be found in th UK and the USA and are certainly not just a third world problem. Aswell as this i dont agree with the point of this statement, its not the desire to live that causes the suffering... Is the desire to live one of the desires you are trying to rid yourself from?
The vast majority of people on earth desire to live, using the sweeping statement "the desire to live causes suffering" is simply stupid. Very few people in the world have suffered from a desire to live, people ill with cancer arent suffering because they want to live, there suffering because they have cancer.. you can make all the links in the world between wanting to live and suffering with cancer but it still doesnt make the statement right. Given enough links you can tie anything together but doing so here doesnt make your argument anymore valid, actually the opposite.

Perfection.Nirvana,Godhood.

A god without compassion and love is a god Id rather not have around.

I know what they are.but thanks for the intention []

Then i can only assume you agree with me.. without hormones you wouldnt be alive to complain about them.

Emotions and feelings were necessary in the first stages of our Specie.

Now that we are becoming an Intelligent,analytic Race we don't need them anymore.

I could write a whole book on why i dont agree with this statement.. instead ill just leave it at that  .

I already don't have them.well,i tend to avoid them at all costs.there'll be a day when i won't have any.ahhh sweet bliss

So im guessing you believe bliss isnt a feeling or emotion?

>RooJ