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With all this talk and the practice of slowing down your brainwaves it forces me to ponder: Is it possible to somehow do the reverse and thus speed up your brainwaves instead of slowing them down? I would think that a teqnique of that calaber would be either exceedingly difficult or extremely easy. And I'm talking about sheer mental effort. It might be possible with drugs but I'm not interested in that.
  If anyone has any ideas please post them

Renaisance

It seems I projected last night without realizing it. This is very exciting for me (even though I don't remember it). Because I still have a road ahead of me before I'll be able to willfuly project.
  Right before I went to bed last night (around 2:30 am) I was doing energy work on my body. I was Stimulating and experimenting with my own versions of tactile imaging. That was it though. I fell asleep shortly after. Just today however after seeing a movie my girlfreind began to talk to me about how she had woken up at about 3:00 am and found me lying on the bed beside her, my hands proped behind my head as I gazed up towards her ceiling (note she lives much too far away from me for this to have been a case of sleepwalking). She said we talked for maybe a half an hour maybe forty five minutes about how we were going to party on her upcoming birthday. She then rolled over and went back to sleep.
  This is truly intrigueing to me for I have often thought that when I can OBE the first thing I would do would be to visit my girlfreind in her sleep and see if I could wake her and will my self to be visible. Since in Roberts theory we make energetic duplicates of our conscienceness in order to OBE (which makes perfect sense given some of my experiences)then obviously my shadow or real time self would do exactly what my physical conscienceness would do []

damn such a potent OBE (she was able to see and speak with me) and I can't even remember it.[!] But who knows maybe I OBE all the time in me sleep without even knowing it.

Renaisance

While moderately versed in things metaphysical I have very little experience in regard to astral projection. I did however have an experience when I was kid that is contrary to a statement Robert Bruce made in Astral Dynamics and I think it deserves some investigation. In the begining of the book when Robert is discussing the nature of the mind split he states that a trance state at least to some degree is necessary to achieve an exit from the body. Perhaps new discoveries have been made since that statement but in the following scenario that I will relate where I had a spontaneous projection, this does not seem to be the case.

   When I was very young and still living in California an Uncle of mine came to visit. Upon his arival I was very excited to discover that he had come bearing a gift: a wonderful brand new mountain bike!
While it was far to large for the reach of my stubby little five year old legs it was a treasure of unimagineable magnitude to a little kid such as myself and definitely an event worth bragging about.
  In no time at all I got in touch with my best freind Travis (my name also) and let him in on the tale of my new treasure. He had come to my house with his little bike that we were riding around the neighborhood but when I told him about my new bike he became very excited and started making offers to trade for it. I was very insistent that it was my bike though and he could not have it. He wouldn't relent though and offered his bike as a trade.
   This continued for some time going nowhere with neither one of us bending to the others will. After a few minutes of this however something strange happened: I was suddenly outside of my body looking down on myself and the bartering that had continued unhindered. I moved around slowly in an ascending spiral around my body getting higher and higher while listening to the conversation between my body and the my best freind; a conversation I no longer had any control over.
 "Come on" he would say "my bike you would be able to ride" but still my body said no. On and on this went out of my control but no longer important to my conscienceness floating higher into the sky, just fascinating in a disjointed sort of way. Finally I settled atop the apartment building that was our home at the time and watched as my body finally relented to my best freinds haggling, trading my bike for his. Once they were through I watched from above as my body walked back into the apartment building and then everything went dark and my next memory was waking up in my bedroom.
 I was greatly relieved upon awakening because that meant that it had to have been a dream and that I still had my treasure. Unfortunately my heart was broken when I walked into the living room and there in the corner sat my best freinds bike and mine was nowhere to be found. My mother told me that I had in fact traded it and we were later unable to get it back. It was one of the greater tragedies of my childhood.

So,if your out there somwhere Robert Bruce (or anyone else) I would greatly appreciate any insight into this event because it has long baffled and saddened me []

Renaisance

hey Graupel. I don't have any full proof methods and I guess there aren't any it simply depends on the person. Of course you can always work with your standard relaxation and trance techniques which are always good. One thing I've been trying with some success is to lie down to go to sleep and while I'm doing so I tell my self over and over to remember my consciousnesss. I tell myself over and over that if I find myself in a dream I will remember my consciousness. I have had some success with this but I'm still working on it.
 The key to this and problem with this is it is not an unbroken stream of consciousness rather you have to surrender your awareness in the hopes that you'll have the ability to pick it up again. This alows you to get as deep as you need to be but at the same time you need to program yourself until it's ingrained that you'll remember to pick the thread back up. This method can be very useful because it sidesteps all the inherent problems for achieving the trance state. It's fundamental flaw however is that if you fail to pick up the thread again you'll simply sleep through the whole night.
 

Just some thoughts
Renaisance

I just thought of something to add to my last post: Once this state of detached heightened brainwaves is achieved it may be possible to slowly bring back body awareness. It may be possible to do this without any stress to the body due to the complete absence of emotional atatchment. With this it may be a gate into the Clark Kent Smallvile superhuman abilities that innerpiolot hinted at. Just speculation but just imagine the possiblities! I will deffinately explore that as well.

Renaisance

quote:Originally posted by innerpilot

Exploring the possibilities may be both intriguing and rewarding. I'm trying to get a clear picture of what you want to accomplish. This is not exactly unchartered territory, "where no man has ever gone before."  Do you think you will learn something new? Develop or expand upon some power to project or something? Maybe like Clark Kent Smallville? I encourage attempts to develop use of the brain and abilities available to us, and I don't want to create negs for your mind, but I hope you will proceed cautiously and consciously. I went back and read your original message, and everyone else's. Could you take some time, and try and describe what you hope to discover, accomplish, by speeding up brainwaves? Can you give me a detailed picture of what it might be like if you do this? Or at least what you think it might be like?

Hey innerpilot. What I hope to accomlish is discovery and expansion in it's purest form. I don't hope to accomplish this simply through the speeding up of brain waves. that is simply one small part of a extremely multifaceted indeaver. I don't have any set idea of a destination or goal that I want to acomplish otherwise it wouldn't be an act of discovery would it? I would be heading to an already known place.
 I'm not saying that people haven't explored the process of speeding up brainwaves and that if I do I will be in a place no man has ever been before. What I'm saying is that it may prove to be a gateway into even further realms of conscienceness that I would not be able to reach from lower waves. I think of it as a bridging point, a stepping stone further into possibility.
   Now while I realize the hazards and stresses on the body I also believe there may be a way around some of the pitfalls. I believe that if you were to first bring yourself into a trance state deep enough for a complete mind body disasociation first, that once you began speeding up your brainwaves you would have completely sidesteped the stresses on the body.
  I believe that once I have accomplished this that it will alow me lighting fast processing and awareness doubled with a near trancelike state. From this I have no idea what could happen. It's an open door.
 Most of the cautions people have are from what people know of stressful situations where an emotional response causes an adrenaline rush and hightened physical abilities. Of course this would cause stress.
   Now if I can acomplish hightened brainwaves from a detatched point of veiw and with a mind completely disasociated from the body who knows what I could acomplish.
  That's about it. I'm going to experiment with it in small doses and keep full logs and journals. I'm also going to try to get in touch with some brain experts so I can get as much background as possible. I may acomplish the unthinkable or I may accomplish nothing more than an addition to my own experience. One way or another I'll gain something from it.

The worst thing anyone can do is to do nothing at all.
Renaisance

quote:Originally posted by SpectralDragon

quote:Originally posted by Renaisance

Thank you all for your cautions. I understand your point Spectral. I realize that what I speak of are dangerous grounds. However I am an explorer, an explorer of possibilities and new horizons. I am not interested in this for any one liniar reason such as heightend senses. I am a martial artist, I could think of many routes to get to that point. I am interested in infinate possibilities, of reaching new hieghts that man has never fathomed before. Thus making the mind operate at a level beyond it's normal capacity seems like a beautiful albiet somewhat dangerous path of discovery.
  I am aware of many of the dangers involved and for this reason I will deffinately tread with caution. I will explore it though because without taking risks we would never get anywhere at all.

best regards
Renaisance

Tread this path with an open mind, but instant message me if you wish to talk to me of it.

 Whats your IM adress Spectral?

Cube: thanks for the pointer. I'll check it out.

Thank you all for your cautions. I understand your point Spectral. I realize that what I speak of are dangerous grounds. However I am an explorer, an explorer of possibilities and new horizons. I am not interested in this for any one liniar reason such as heightend senses. I am a martial artist, I could think of many routes to get to that point. I am interested in infinate possibilities, of reaching new hieghts that man has never fathomed before. Thus making the mind operate at a level beyond it's normal capacity seems like a beautiful albiet somewhat dangerous path of discovery.
  I am aware of many of the dangers involved and for this reason I will deffinately tread with caution. I will explore it though because without taking risks we would never get anywhere at all.

best regards
Renaisance

quote:Originally posted by SpectralDragon

making the brain actually speed up causes the following I noticed:

• You become grounded more into 3-D. (you will notice things more, senses hieghtened, ect)


• Things appear to slow down.


• Energy manipulation becomes easier at some levels.


• Physical and mentel stresses increase and put the user in danger.


• Adreniline runs through the body. This is part of the cause of the stress.

Of course this is just when I did it a few times. I stopped because I realized this is dangerous to do. [] Also, I am thinking this might be different with different people...

did you find any techs that worked exceptionaly well for this? Of course visualizing or recalling a stressful situation though the problem and limitation with that is convincing the mind that this self imposed image is real, otherwise it fails to cause all that much stress.
  So what did you do to elevate your brainwaves? I haven't experimented with it yet mostly it's just an idea I'm still toying with.

Hope to hear from you
Renaisance

Hey thanks a lot you guys. to Nagual thanks for the link I will deffinately chen that out. To Noxerus thanks for your input as well. I should read that artical you were talking about. While I know that when we are awake and active that the conscience part of our brain is in beta but it is completely possible that we have multiple facets of our brains that are functioning at different waves completely independant of the others at all times.
 Thanks to you as well logorat. Though your comment about getting a job seemed kind of insulting. Hopefully you were joking though. If not...... Anyways have a good day

Renaisance

correction the title is: The necesity of trance during OBE.

quote:Originally posted by Patrik

LotusLegs,


I don't know why the trance state suddenly just "stops". But when it happens I am suddenly very awake, all numbness gone etc. And since the astral body can't be outside the physical body while I am walking around, that can't be the reason.

  I have actualy had an OBE where my body was still walking around and fully active. It was a strange experience but the memories of it I have are on the side of my projected double. I was floating around above the head of my body observing it have a fully active conversation with a freind of mine. I then watched as my body walked away back into my house. If you'd like to read the full acount it's on page ten of this forum entitled: The necessity of trance during projection?

Just thought I'd let you know
Renaisance

a lot of it is simply training. With enough practice you will be able to become comfortable just about anywhere even a wooden chair. I sugest that you simply practice meditating in a wooden chair for a while without even worrying about OBE. OBE will come only after you know how to relax. You can always try lying on the floor as well. Once you slow your brain down enough you don't even notice a hard floor. It could also help if you do an hour of yoga before hand after which the floor would seem very comfortable. You could fold up a blanket and put it on the floor to lie on as well.
 
Hope that helps
Renaisance

hey thanks for the input. A couple of things though. First to Noxerus I wanted to point out that in the trance state or body asleep mind awake state as you put it your brain frequency is actualy alpha waves not beta. In beta you are actualy fully awake and aware were as in meditation and trance you are in alpha.
 To Nagual: I was wondering where I could get bwgen. Is there a place I can download it? Personaly I have never heard anything about sped up brain waves. The only brain waves I have ever heard of are alpha, beta, theta, and delta. Of all of those beta is the highest frequency. Of course I wouldn't want to experience an extremely sped up brain wave for to long that would be very overwellming and as you guys said possibly hazardous to your health. It would be intriguing to play with it in doses though. Could learn some profound things

thanks again
Renaisance

hey leyla,  that's a really weird experience and I have no idea what to make of it. Just be really carefull handling it. Try doing what he said to see if that makes the dreams go away. If it doesn't work I think you have your answer right there. If you call him do it from a pay phone or if you email him do it from a library computer. Above all be careful and go by your gut. You should never agree to meet this guy by alone.

Renaisance

hey neo schiavo,

 A couple things: for one, what could possibly be gained by a conspiracy to tell people that mars is another color than what it is? There is no possible benifit at least in my mind that could result from such a scam. There is alway the possiblity that the whole of the photographs in all there totality not just their color were fake and that we have never in fact even set foot on mars but then thats a whole other can of worms isn't it?

 Second: I agree with you in many regards. Particularly that in my conclusions everything in existance is simply energy in one shape form or frequency. I also agree with the fact that that is truly all we need to explore (at a personal level). However there is always the problem of proof. While I myself am a firm believer of OBE it is still not a thing that can be simply proven (such as you said about the caveman and the stick). Of course there are always the little tests such as taping a playing card to a window but then whos to say that that isn't merely telepathy or some sort of esp? how can we say CONCLUSIVELY that we are really traveling out of our bodies? Also everyones results in what they see during OBE is subject to personal mind sets and therefor are biased. So starting out with a biased medium how can you truly say that is all we need for scientific investigation?

Just a couple thoughts
Renaisance

hey patric, thats cool if that's what you believe. However nothing is forever and therefor neither are we so whether we die now or one hundred thousand years from now (in the forever and always way) will make no difference. The meaning is now the purpose is now. Of course when we are completely gone it's no longer going to matter to us. That's a given because we no longer exist! That doesn't mean that life can't be meaningful now.
  If your constantly living in the future you are never truly living for you are living in a construct of your imagination rather than the moment at hand.

Renaisance

to patric: I think that the belief that our lives are meaningless (whether we have a soul or not) is a very limited veiw. Sure if we have a soul then somehow we fit into some grand process but is it true that if this is a one shot chance that it will all be for naught? So if we don't have a soul does it mean that it was all meaningless. Simply because we are not as we wish: for all intesive purposes imortal?
  I don't think this is the case I think that the meaning although seemingly smaller is so much grander when you take eternity and god out of the picture. If you can live a fulfilled and happy life. Then what more meaning do you need? The meaning and purpose belongs only to you and the fortunate people you have touched throughout your lifetime. The only other meaning necesary is one to soothe a fear of death and by death I mean the final and forever sort.

Just my opinion though
Renaisance

Probably the more you do it the less you'll get this response. As with anything that really excites you it gradualy becomes common ground and has little affect on you. just a thought

Renaisance

To Irreal: While our perspective isn't irrelivant it still does not change the nature of the beast. whether we call evil by one label or abother, whether we call it evil or cheese it does not change the nature of what it is. If you throw a brick through somones window it doesn't matter how you preceive the action because the affect is still the same. Perspective affects only our reality but there is still the reality that everyone else lives in.

hey, first off I want to say that your quote rocks!
getting to the alpha waves though I beleive from my own experience it is as you say with the alarm clock. In my meditation experience I reach that warm relaxed state that can vary from being loosly aware but indifferent to all my suroundings or completely oblivious and kind of floating/driffting. One time in the latter type I was begining to come out of it but I guess my body was comming out of it faster than my mind because when my body began to move I was so disasociated with it that I didn't know what it was that was moving and it scared the flying bonk out of me! My own body moving scared me. it was kind of amusing.
  Anyways I think one of the biggest problems with getting to this state is that people try too hard. It's a relaxed state and your not going to get there by straining your brain. It's like going to sleep. whenever you try to force yourself to go to sleep it doesn't work. you kind of have to let it happen. same with the alpha state

later
Renaisance

In response to soulfire and the existance of evil. In some ways I agree with you and in others I do not. while certain things are "labeled" as evil so in fact is everything we know in the entire universe. Emotions and actions and items are all in the long run subject to labels. Despite the fact that these things are labeled it does not diminish in any way the reality and existance of the object. ie if you were to take something such as a jar, the word jar is in itself a label but if you were to take away the label it would not cause the jars existance to be eradicated. it would still be the same object it was before simply minus our association and analysis of it. the same can be said for evil. Evil is simply a type of energy, one that exists at a different frequency than that of good. True the words good and evil are labels and could just as easily be flipped: good being called evil and evil being called good (this already happens mind you) but they are still there and the nature of these things is in no way impacted by the label. the only thing affected by the label is our perspective.

Renaisance

It seems to me that the biggest problem in achieving the trance state is an overactive mind. All the tecniques in the world will not help if you cant simply calm your mind. What I suggest to you is that you find the tecnique you like the most, one you can do easily and comfortably without too much mental exertion (this is why breathing exercises are so good: simplicity) and practice it in a relaxed but alert fashion. If you have trouble with falling asleep try different positions: sitting, kneeling, whatever's comfortable. Preferably not something mentaly asociated with sleep such as your bed or when your tiered like late at night.
  In my opinion it is best to set the tecnique as kind of a mental back drop. Loosly aware of it but not concentrating too hard on it. Then from this point you need to let go. Its hard to explain but easy to do. You just kind of feel in your mind all the energy and turmoil and thoughts and rather than trying to control it just relax into it. Once you have done this your mind kind of loses momentum and calms itself.
  Its kind of the mental equivilent of kicking your boots off and falling back into a lazy boy. Like saying awe bonk it and letting it all go.
  The key as I said is finding a tecnique that is easy and comfortable for you to do without over straining the brain . Sometimes it helps me if I invent my own tecniques, it doesn't have to be written before you can do it.
  The biggest inhibiter of trance is control the more you try to control it the worse off you'll be. The same goes with life in general. Notice how all the tecniques are focused towards relaxing and the final result is an opening of the mind? How can all this be acheived if the entire time youre straining and sweating and thinking to yourself oh excrement its not working!

well I hope that helps
Just relax!
Renaisance

he, trippy

Yeah, I know. It just reminded me of my dream for some reason. Just thought I'd share.