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Astraldude,


How long do u think it is possible for an expert to stay in the astral for?
- I've been able to stay out up to 30 to 40 minutes. I still don't consider
myself an expert. Just a real hard worker and driven to the cause.

How long do u think it is possible for a beginner to stay in the astral for?
- My first obe was about 30 seconds, the second obe lasted about 5
  minutes. After that, it was trial and error of keeping alert and conscious

What do you think hallucination or a real place?
- Definitely not in Kansas anymore! - Its a real place and yes, I've been
  able to validate this. In fact, this last year I've had over 15 validations.

Have any of u had an AP that you thought was real and physical.
- Yes, sometimes its real difficult to distinguish between the RTZ and
Physical. Until something odd happens, like fog drifting through the wall.

And also have any of you ever spoken to lost loved ones.
- Funny you should mention this. Yes, just yesterday morning which
also followed with validations. I'll post this experience in the Astral Experience section for AP friends to review.

You can also visit my web site at: www.invisiblelight.us for the last
19yrs of journals, audio, video, stats on my tracking with the obe

scientific and spiritual.

Enjoy,

Tvos

Since you people didn't come to the other similar thread, that thread will come to you. Your answers as to how long you've been able to stay out are very different from answers major Tom provided in the following thread:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23061&start=20&sid=712484c5e3df6c8946ad488f2466018c,

where he said he manages to stay out for about 5 minutes max, and I would considere him an expert on a subject. So what is it that you do to manage to stay out for such long periods, while an expert (major Tom), only manages to stay out for 10 minutes.

Also, is your perception of time the same when you are out? If it depends, on what does it depend?

Back on topic...  I agree 100% Tom, I have had some LONG OBE's, I will wake up and think "wow that felt like it lasted for hours!" but then i will stop and think about it and go over the events and really it took about 15 minutes.  It seems the more lucid I am the longer things seem to take because everything is so vivid and immersive.  I also have killed many OBE's by randomly freaking out about having to go back to my body and of course I do!  If I had stayed calm and not let it enter my mind who knows how much longer I could have stayed out.

When I used the term different time perception I meant it more in a way that things happen that much faster in astral and thus  you get to do things(like watch a whole movie and then go for a long walk) in a matter of minutes.

You know like one episode of Star trek enterprise where Picard falls into coma and lives trough (in his mind) the next 20 years of his life, but when they got him out of coma-like state he realised only few minutes have passed since he collapsed and started "dreaming". That's what I meant with different time perception. He managed to experience as much  as one would experience in 20 years in physical world

hiya Tom

Not sure where you you heard 30 minutes for a typical projection.

Five minutes is already pretty long in my book, and most OBEs of many others (including OBE authors) I'm sure are of that duration (although perhaps not advertized as much). Try out how much you can do in five minutes in real life running or flying around in your house. It's quite long.

I don't know from where I pulled out that number, but nontheless, from reading ( on this forum ) some of the events people experience in astral, one gets the feeling it has to last more than 10 minutes.

I mean if one person tells how he met that spirit, talked to it for awhile, then met another one and went golfing with it etc ... unless perception of time is different in astral, or if posters are making things up, then I don't see how all this can be accomplished in 5 or less minutes.

The only other explanation would be different time perception in astral.

So do we have a different time perception in astral? If so, does 5 minutes feel like 30 minutes or ... ?

Everything takes practice, and it's a long road, especially if OBEs are highly lucid, and assumptions of the waking self hold greater sway.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by that? My english is so so.

I will try to make this my last post in this thread so not to take any more of your time

It seems to me that best method would be to learn to change focus during meditation. Then there'd be no sleep deprivations etc. So why doesn't more people do it via meditation, including you Tom?

In the link you posted you mentioned your time out varies from 3 sec to 5 min. Why so short?
It appears you are among the more experienced projectors on this forum, but don't most projections last on average for around 30 minutes?

But the easiest, over time, and the most sensical way to OBE, have been methods that utilize natural occuring sleep cycles.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "utilize natural occuring sleep cycles"? You mean when it's time for bed, instead of falling asleep it is then you try to project? So since one usually goes to sleep at night it means you don't try to force a sleep and thus projection during a day?

There are many "howtos" including Monroe's, whose work got me into OBEs twenty years ago, so I hold fond memories, and I like his western (and semi-scientific) perspective.

But all any author can do is person in a certain direction, yet nothing will be ever detailed enough unless, once again, you watch your own experience very closely, and look for what is holding you back on a personal level.

Can you recommend some books that would help me learn to shift awareness to other focus levels? I don't mean books that contain a bunch of jada jada, I mean books that more or less give you "howtos" (I don't mind a little of jada jada, but if one wants to learn to drive a car, he/she doesn't need to learn all about the engine prior).  

I know there's plenty of book recomendations going on in this forum, but I don't wanna learn the "robert bruce's way".

Jane Roberts from the 70s.

She started a new type of mediumship, and most of what followed the decades after that are bad copies of this original thought.

As far as the focus levels, and who coined the phrase "phasing" as well as focus levels, and "using them" succesfully, that would ofcourse be Robert Monroe.

So Jane Roberts expanded and improved the theory developed by Robert Monroe?

Was everything Frank told valid aka it actually helped one learn to shift focus or was alot of baloney in it?

In your opinion, did Frank bring something new and valid to the table or he just copyed Jane and added mumbo jumbo?

And most importantly Tom ... if one wants to learn to shift awareness ... who's writtings would help me most to achieve these goals (most easily understandable, most detailed ... )? It can't be Monroe, since he didn't have very detail "howtos".

Who helped you the most to learn to shift focus Tom?

There are few original ideas in the "new age buisness" these days, or original thinkers.

Everyone steals from eachother for personal advancement without giving due credit to the original thinkers.

The 4-focus model is quite similar to writings of another medium, as I have noted elsewhere, and Elias seems quite similar to that original medium.

What medium would that be?

I'd like to read about focus levels from person that actually has used succesfully those techniques, and not from some dude that merely stoled it from someone else and added some of his own ramblings. It's those ramblings that I have a problem with, since it may very well be that person was just making that stuff up to make the theory seem "unique", but one learning from his teachings wouldn't know that and because of that may not be able to succed in getting to astral

I don't know about this. When Frank talked about focus I really thought he was on to something, but now since "perhaps" he got lots of his ideas from that Elias chap I'm not so sure anymore. Afteral, this Elias  could just be the product of someone's imagination, even if that someone is certain Elias is talking to him/her.
If that is the case, then the whole focus theory ( or at least the parts Frank added or expanded from original Monroe's theories ) could be just ramblings without any empirical proof!?

Your opinions on what I've just said?

Before starting i should mention that i have only just recently started meditating on a regular basis.

Today whilst meditating, after about 10 mins my body was completely relaxed i experienced REM, which was unexpected to say the least, is this standard for meditation or something else??

What kind of meditation technique are you using?

But why is Bruce Moen always aware of his body? Are  his techniques the reason ( which would suggest most who practice his techniques will be aware of their body also ), or what ?

I'm not shure if Frank also said this, but Bruce Moen told that even when in astral he's always aware of his physical body. Doesn't that in way lessen full immersion into astral ? I mean, if nothing else sensations of touch experienced in astral is prob lessened to some degree

This isn't the case with traditional OBE

hi

I was just wondering which of the two techniques is more immersing, more real when it comes to experiencing  astral world ?

I would think that since with phasing you are still aware of your physical body to a degree, and especially due to the lack of any body ( astral or etheric - it doesn't matter if those bodies are real or just a figment of your imagination ) , I have a feeling one is not able to immerse into astral fully, at least with regards to your physical senses ( touch most importantly ) , while in contrast your regular astral projection does appear  more "real" in that aspect, since you can "feel" the astral word around you with your astral body, while I would think phasing doesn't reproduse the illusion(?) of  touch ? Or does it?!

thank you

thank you for your suggestions

cheers

what exactly does frank mean with "mental rundown" ?

Since it seems it will be awhile before frank returns and writes his long awaited book, and since I'm still very interested in learning phasing, can you recommend me a book that best describes how to achieve it?

I know there are topics on phasing, but the information about it is way too scattered over numerous topics and more importantly, in my opinion, forum's topics on it don't go into enough details to be really useful

EDIT-I know about bruce moen, but I find it hard to believe that next to monroe he's the only one describing phasing. In any case,if he is the authority on the subject, do recommend his book

cheers

It would be best if Frank himself could answer this question but in case that doesn't happen, pehaps people that do have contact with him on more or less regular basis could
Does frank still plan to release his book ? When ?

hi

I just want to know if Frank's phasing newsletter is still active since the last newsletter I received was 2 months ago ?

bye

I don't want to spam but I'm still hoping that Frank will find the time to answer my questions

cheers

Nay, thank you.

KL:

I assure you it is nothing personal.

Yours,
Frank

That thought never crossed my mind since the two of us haven't really spoke ( once or twice maybe )

In any case , I would really appreciate if my questions are answered

frank you could at least tell me why you didn't bother to answer my questions , since you have to admit it you have no problem posting novels in here on almost daily basis . So why does it become a problem  when someone asks ( that would be me ) you to explain it in order to be able to follow your book when it does eventually come out ? Are questions that stupid ... ?

And BTW ,I did check your topics in Permanent astral topics and Astral FAQ and no ,my questions aren't answered there !

hiya

I will admit that I don't read much of your posts (or anyone else's for that matter ) since I don't yet feel ready to begin "projecting" .So my question may already be answered by you somewhere among your numerous novels you call posts ( just kidding ).

In your newsletter you said "objective reality is an objective translation
of the underlying subjective action" . I'm not able to pinpoint as to what exactly is bothering me with that explanation but I will try .

*If I understand what you are saying , then physical world ( for example ) is only a manifestation of our own consciousness and thus I can view objectively ( to a point since experiencing this world first hand via my body means I'm viewing it subjctively ) the actions of my own consciousness ( at least part or even area responsible for all physical ) which of course by definition is always subjective ?

*And speaking of physical , who exactly is responsible for physical world ? You or I or did our minds somehow managed to get togehter or ... ( see the question below ) ?

*If we must always travel within us and thus nothing exists outside our consciousness , wouldn't that indicate that somehow my consciousness occupies or exists in your consciousness also and vice-versa ?

The following question also has to do with something you said in newsletter :
"The obstacles in thinking people have are :
2) People objectify everything "

Now what exactly you mean by that ?

I sure hope you can clear this up for me since I do plan to follow your book , but it would make it that more difficult without understanding the basics

cheers

Kaja:

I'm not sure why anyone would need protecting against their own mind. Perhaps they should maybe change their beliefs on some things so they view different constructs if they feel that is necessary in terms of their experience. Or not if they wish to continue. If people feel they are being attacked and so forth then we have a section for that in the PSD forum.


Yours,
Frank

I'd like a definitive answer on that ! In your opinion , besides people that passed away ( and besides the fact that lots of so called attacks are just your mind manifesting your thoughts ), are there actual entities (as in negs) living in astral or whatever you call it , and are some of those negs sometimes responsible for attacks on projectors ? I'm only asking what you believe it to be frank and nothing else

So how do you protect yourself from your subconscious mind ( besides the usual "think good thoughts" solution ) ?
Also,would that mean that in fact there really is no astral wildlife in lower astral and thus when robert bruce talks about it , he is perhaps confusing the entities he sees as something living independently when in truth it's just his mind playing tricks on him ( I hope I get an answer on this one ) ?

Some people have their first in 2 days. Some people have it in 2 weeks, months, years, or decades. I'm closer to 2 decades.

You're saying it took you almost 20 years for your first OBE ?

No, it feels more real than that. You don't have to train for it other than have an OBE.

So  memory on OBE feels as real as memory of anything it happened to you in real life ?

And Tom,you keep mentioning FAQ,but only FAQ I found on this site is about login troubles and the like