Messages

....no comparison Bardon and Monroe describe the realms as do Bailey and Stone and Hurtak . This Elias is bogus .But the image on the front page of the site is interesting even though it is copied from another site . The chinese energy terms are incorrect on that map .
should be ;
Shen mind and psychic lunar  stone
Ching sexual creativity earth stone
Chi life force solar stone

I love chocolate and wine and whiskey too but when I want to do serious energy work I fast and drink lots of water and avoid meat and eat raw veg and fresh veg juice . An 80 year old  medium from England addressing a group of us at the Edgar Cayce Centre decades ago began by telling us that he was a skirtchaser , smoked too much and drank a lot but that when he was doing a platform session , he retreated in meditation , drank copious amounts of water , avoided all alchohol and smokes and gave up the ladies too .

An alchemical structure manifests in  the mid shaft of the lower leg eventually . After the wheel of life develops in each chakra , tan tien and joint ,the centres between the joints emerge . When these wheels are present and you lie in a fetal position you will feel the energy surging between the right and left leg , if you can comfortably manage to touch the ankles together that will boost it more . This energy rips up the vibes so that the magician can lie down and instantly vibe out . It does not however help with the recall. I find self falling asleep soon into my wanderings .I feel that a new centre is developing in the mid fore arms too but this one is not as strong . The hands folded in prayer do make a good ripping vibration too .  Again I recomment the right side or stomach to females and the left side or back to males .

Siddhartha is one of my favourite books . I still recall  from it ;

Life is like the river , everything changes , nothing remains the same everything returns .

On the value of meditation ;

Within you there is a stillness and a sanctuary to which you can retreat at any time and be yourself .

Om is the bow , the arrow is the soul , nirvana is the goal .

I bought the rest of Herman Hesse's books none were as good .
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_Hesse

Magister Ludi was hailed when I was in university and we were required to read it but it was ordinary and not memorable . I read them all in the great hope another would be as great .

Good idea Stillwater ,
I am not really level with Enochian . I have read James Hurtak's Book of Enoch Keys of Knowledge and some of John Dee's works .But I am enthused with Kaballah , Hermetic Magick and Alchemy . I would like to have an understanding .

Who on this site has background and experience in these occult arts ?

Here is my bio I would like to find mentors and peers .

Hermetic Magick
I have completed the 10 step path of the Hermetic Magician . I have studied IIH by Bardon and my own metaphysical research to do this .

Alchemy
I am a philosophical alchemist . I have studied Crowley on Thoth , Isaac Newton and Jacob Boehme. I learned from Thoth about the Emerald Tablet and completed that . I am working on fire and water works now on the Y axis .  

Kaballah
I am struggling on a mystic pathway through the Kaballah . I go to Occult Forum and read Exodus . I evoke archangels and in mystic vision learn about this pathway .

High Magick
I evoke angels and spirit teachers , I have used sigils , I do not usually use them though . I open in LBRP . I raise energy and evoke by will . This is like a polite invitation or request . I am a clairvoyant and clairaudient mystic . I follow the teachers to the realms and learn from them .

Projection
I project in a variety of methods and to realms by will

purple/green GA /HS
purple cosmic overself
blue GA
green mental body
yellow HS
orange LS
red etheric OBE
--------------------golden heart of mystic on mirror
red /orange GD/ LS


I see the realms as much more than astral . I look at the mapping according to Bardon and Monroe whom I have studied;
partial listing
9 ashrams of RHP / LHP
8 outer space
7 logoic shamballah
-----------------------
6 mahatmic golden
5 monadic  akashic
4 astral air
etheric
3 earth  water
RTZ
2 totem earth
1 hell    fire
0 magick realm

I would like to meet mystics who have also gone to higher planes . To meet alchemists and hermetic magicians online .

everybody is new on magic on this forum :/
i've always visit for learning new sths.
but everytime we see new users on magick (like me)

we need to at least 1 experienced person for learn sth.
we can't sharing any info on here, we share only our questions
and tutorial requests i think.

greetings
SyntaxTR

'
There are experienced magicians here . Another good place to learn about magick is at Occult Forums
http://www.occultforums.com/

You can skip some of the exercises and come back . Sometimes you will find that if you go on the little bits are filled in anyway through mystical experiences . Rather then stop or give up just go on to the very next bit you can begin . There is an online free class at River of Enlightenment Forums .

Stillwater - Indeed, you have got terribly lost in the conversation!.

I don't think you are lost at all Stillwater .

I listed my teachers only because Hagethuriel asked.

Actually I never asked you who your teachers were and you never really substantiated it either . I did ask  this but you did not reply ;
"I do not believe you have gone to the higher realms from all that you have written because you show no understanding of them . But perhaps I am wrong what have you seen there ? And who did you meet ? "

Perhaps this is not what you intended to say, and merely mistype (I do), but this is what your words imply!

I did not make this claim.

Actually Stillwater is right you did imply that .

Hagethuriel believes very much in these magick squares.

I do not believe in magick squares and I do not what you are on about  and when I asked you what you were on about you never replied .
So please tell us what a magic square is ?

I, however, do not believe they are real.

I informed Hagethuriel the "ancient documents" they were based on were long ago exposed as frauds.

That is when Hagethuriel said to me:

You simply do not have the ability to use them .

This quote is out of context
That is why I responded back:

"If anyone could use the "magick squares," I'm sure it would be me. But I would have to try first. "

It would help Leyla if you woul learn to spell , quote the text and reply to the questions asked . Thanks Stillwater for your reply .

The Buddhist and general Confucian construct of the universe include "lower" planes which may be thought of as hellish, which is also how some projectors describe the more unpleasant astral locales, although none bares semblance to the peculiar notion likely invented by Christianity in the last 500 years from the old descriptions of Gehenna (an icky dump, not hell) in the bible. So "hells" seem mainly to be an astral locale.

Hell preexists Christianity and has been described by ancient cultures .

The names we use (god, archangel, ghost-being, ether, great spirit, astral-thing) are not important, and I would also be careful of what I saw in the astral, as it has a tendancy of conforming to our expectations.

Archangels are not seen in the Astral realms . The Astral is the name of the 4th Plane .

Let us continue the discussion in goodwill.

No Offense is taken and thank you .

[Extinct Volcano.]

If you follow the teaching of someone who is perverse, abusive, and corrupt you will be deeply mislead. ....Everything Enochian/Kaballah has, it takes from Babylonian, and older forms Magick.

Exactly , we agree on two premises anyway . Kabballah is historically evidenced over 2000 years ago and it is presumed to be much older . So it is certainly not the work of Crowley but he did bring to light valid exceptional teachings .

For example, it tells you to invoke the Hebrew God "Yahweh" (Tetragrammaton) and paint the name "Yahweh" on all your Alter Tools; when Yahweh is an Extinct Volcano. http://mythandmagick.bravehost.com/VolcanoGod.html

Yahweh is the name of the Father God of all Abrahamic . Jehovah is a derivation of this name .

Crowley was trying to open up the gates of Hell, and invoke the Devil,  when neither exist. http://mythandmagick.bravehost.com/HellAndTheDevil.html

Hells exist , I have projected there with mates and these realms have been described by numerous metaphysical authors of great repute . I do not believe in the devil . But I do believe in demons and angels .

The Arch Angels it tells you to invoke are Babylonian planetary Gods, anything El, denotes a god: Gabrie-El, (Mercury) Mikaha-El (Mars) Rafa-El (Jupiter) Uri-El (Saturn) They are called the "Watchers' because they are always watching, from the sky above.

These are not Gods . I have seen them and been taught by them . They are archangels .

Father Abraham came out of "Ur of the Chaldeans," Which was the southern portian of Babylon. Chaldean means "Moon Worshipper." It was capital for worship of the Moon Goddess "Sin." (Be careful not to fall into "sin!" haha.)

I believe in the Moon Goddess .

Also, Moses, as you will recall, was raised as an Egyptian prince. He knew everything to do with Egyptian religion. Who were the head gods of the Egyptian panthion? Isis. Ra. El.
Say it out loud: Isis. Ra. El. Isis-Ra-El...... IS-RA-EL.

El is not a "top god" of Egypt ."NEKHBET vulture-goddess of Nekheb (modern El-Kab); tutelary deity of Upper Egypt, sometimes appearing on the royal diadem beside the cobra (Edjo)." El is akin to THE but the point is valid anyway and already familiar to me .

The Egyptian God Amen was briefly worshiped as the "sole god" in Ancient Egypt....that's right. AMEN. Every prayer ends in "Amen."

Is this Trivial Pursuit ? This does not pertain to the thread . I am panatheistic so this does not concern me . But similar  names are not Amen but Amon Ra and Amenotep .

And virtually all of the Old Testemant stories [The Flood, The creation Epic] are copied from older Sumarian ones, such as The Epic of Gilgamesh, Enki and Enlil.

D. as above . ...

LBRP is a very basic ritual and The Golden Dawn certainly did not invent it.

........difference of opinion on this

I have looked at your links. They speak of upper astral plane, lower astral plane, middle astral plane, sub astral plane, but not one of them says a thing about going "beyond" the astral plane. I think you must have misunderstood.

You cannot have missed the charts . Most if not all of the links in reply to that realms portion of the thread had hierarchies and realm charts distinguishing astral from higher .But I am sure you could also ascertain this by searching the archives here .  I do not know if I can post an image here but I will try .

a 7 Plane Chart of the Realms

Alice Bailey & Djwhal Khul - A Treatise on Cosmic Fire - IC ...
   Adi, Atomic plane 1st ether. 2. Subatomic, Monadic Anupadaka ... major rays are organized on the three higher subplanes of the monadic plane in the same way ...    
laluni.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/fire/fire1058.html
Introduction to AstroQab
1) The plane of Adi. 2) The Monadic plane. 3) The Atmic plane. 4) The Buddhic or Intuitional plane. 5) The Higher Manasic or Higher Mental plane www.fortunecity.com/roswell/leadbeater/0/astroqabintro.htm

Encyclopedic Theosophical Glossary: Adi-Ag, Theosophical ...
Adi-buddha is the individualized monadic focus of adi-buddhi, ... physical builders and destroyers are analogous to their prototypes on the higher planes. ...
ww.theosociety.org/pasadena/etgloss/adi-ag.htm

   Fundamentals of the Esoteric Philosophy - Chapter 18
   The latter cannot directly contact the lower planes, because it is the monadic essence itself, the latter a still higher ray of the infinite Boundless ...
   www.theosociety.org/pasadena/fund/fund-18.htm

The Theosophical Seven Planes of Existence
These planes are (from the least subtle to most): the Physical, the Emotional, the Mental, the Buddhic, the Atmic, the Monadic, and the Adi Planes. ...
www.geocities.com/xeroiii/Chakra/6Planes.htm

[DOC] 2
File Format: Microsoft Word 2000 - View as HTML
Second, a similar process in connection with a Heavenly Man transpires on the three higher subplanes of the monadic plane. Viewed in a larger sense it takes ...
www.shamballaschool.org/StudyResources/compilations/subplanes.doc

Monadic Ray
Thus the tree symbol stands for the universe, and correspondentially for man, in whom the monadic ray kindles activity on the several planes; ...
www.experiencefestival.com/monadic_ray

   Adi-buddhi
   A selection of articles related to Adi-buddhi. ... ideation of the universe producing its ever-changing aspects on the planes of matter and objectivity; ...
   www.experiencefestival.com/adi-buddhi

SOULEDOUT.ORG GLOSSARY
There are seven planes of perception on this, the "cosmic physical" plane — physical, astral, mental, buddhic, atmic, monadic and Adi. These planes are ...
www.souledout.org/souledoutglossary.html

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/archive.php/o_t__t_17085__start_0__index.html
http://www.astralvoyage.com/projection/higherplanes.html
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/archive.php/o_t__t_17085__start_0__index.html

That is one clever editing job.

I just copied and pasted it .

Unfortunatly none of you "High Magicians" seem to know what you're supposed to do with them. This is why I do not doubt the "ancient documents" were exposed as frauds.

I evoke without sigils . This does not mean that using sigils is invalid . I do know how to use them but I do not need them .

You admit that you do not know how to use them. Does this mean you A) Lack the Ability or B) Have never been to the Astral, or any Higher Realm?

No I said your nomenclature was incorrect and your that communication was incongruous and ambiguous  . I know how to use them .I have projected to the higher planes . It is not necessary to use "magick squares "to attain higher realms . The most famous authors that mapped out the realms by merely sitting  in meditative trance to project .

I don't like to throw my qualifications around, but since you question them, I was visiting the astral plane for about six years before I ever joined the Astral Pulse.
I've studied with:
A Dianic Priestess,
A Native American Medicine Man,
A Italian Strega and
A Buddhist Monk
... Among others.  
There was also two years time spent with Orthadox Jews, where I picked up Kaballah. (Which I later put right back down.)

It does not matter whom we claim to have studied with , it is our ability and our experience that demonstrates what we actually learned .

[would be the first.]

squares that are suposed to spell out the names of the dieties who rule over the regions. I thought you claimed to know this stuff ?

(deities) First it is difficult to reply when you don't place the full quote on the thread. I cannot  see what it is you are responding to . I  don't think they are called magick squares but I don't evoke with sigils.

The Golden Dawn "ancient" texts were famously exposed as frauds...which explains a lot, as they are quite technical, complex, and silly.

They are not complicated at all . You simply do not have the ability to use them . But you really need to speak to a Golden Dawn occultist to get an earnest reply . I am not one . I find that the rituals of the Golden Dawn such as the LBRP are effective and the esoteric works such as the descriptions of the realms are accurate .

You say they are real,

Who are they ?

so I am challenging you to tell me how exactly you use them to achieve a projection. (BTW, if you can you would be the first.)

Well I believe you that it would be a first because when I did a search to see what was in the archives to explain the astral plane definition  to you I saw posts by you  from two years ago claiming that you could not figure out how to get there then .

I tried to get to this hall or records but think I landed in the wrong place....There was whipping wind all around, and when I tried to enter one I was pushed back by the astral wind. Apparently the place was "off limits" to me.

But I will try . To project consciousness is aptly described by Robert Monroe's phasing model which has been discussed on many threads at this site . Open in protection using the LBRP for example . Deep cleanse using  yoga breathing methods . Raise energy using  NEW. Strengthen your energy body . In time you can learn to enter trance in meditation and project as you will .

OMG, according to whom?

every metaphysical author that has ever written about the realms ie
Bailey , Stone , Hurtak , Blavatsky , Monroe , Bardon , Cooper , Fortune
All distinguish the astral from the higher planes . Using books for door stops is the difficulty .Open those books and read them , here are some definitions to educate you ;
astral plane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_plane
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Astral_plane/id/58488
higher planes
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce06.html
http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/Wingmakers/The%20seven%20Cosmic%20Planes.html
http://www.share-international.org/ARCHIVES/AgelessWisdom/aw_ajplanes.htm
http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Forum/index.php/topic,17846.0.html
http://www.geocities.com/santmat_mystic/ChartPlanes.jpg
http://www.kheper.net/topics/Theosophy/kosmic_planes.gif
http://www.santji.allegre.ca/planes-640.jpg
http://www.kheper.net/topics/Theosophy/kosmic_planes.gif

Look pal, you can split hairs over technical terms and jargon if you want, but until one of these intelligent entities tells me I'm "beyond the astral" then I say I am in upper astral realms.

You can say you are in the upper realms right now but that does not make it any truer . You might as well claim you live in Shamballah . The spirit teachers are not in the upper astral realms .They are in the monadic planes and higher . The astral is a like a veil between the physical world and the higher realms .

Adi
Shamballic
Monadic

Astral

Etheric
RTZ
physical
Totemic

I do not believe you have gone to the higher realms from all that you have written because you show no understanding of them . But perhaps I am wrong what have you seen there ? And who did you meet ?

His descriptions which match what I see when I go.

And are you also on laudanum, opium, cocaine, hashish, alcohol, ether, mescaline and heroin? Because Crowley never achieved "magickal journies" any other way.

This is such an awful thing to write . You are obviously as rude as you are ill informed  . It will be difficult for you to raise your projection to see the higher planes because you are negative .Negativity causes a lower vibration .This will limit you . If you want to be nice , I will try to teach you .  I enter meditative trance completely sober .

Projection is achieved in a state of "mind awake, body asleep" therefore this casts serious doubt on all his claims.

Projection of the etheric or astral double is achieved in this method . The projection of the conscious is not . There are many subtle body layers and many forms of projection . It is difficult to understand how you could be on this site so long and not have learned that .

It is you who are misinformed about Crowley. Few of his worshippers have any knowledge about the man whom they have put on a pedistal.

I actually never wrote that I worshipped him . I merely asked you to cite what books you were criticising . You have taken this completely off topic to attack me instead . I study kabbalah and I project to the realms . I worship God not people . You should learn to use the spelling cow by the way because you really have difficulties . (pedestal )

Anybody who wants to can submit to Wikipedia. These "fans" read his books and start hero worshipping him, not knowing how he lived his life.
Did you think he would tell you about all the suicides, animal sacrifice, and dead babies in his books? I didn't think so... Funny he would fail to mention all that.

This thread is not about the hedonistic substance abusing life of Crowley . It is about kabballah and magick . You stand corrected in all that you derided about the realms , the abyss and projecting to work with spirit teachers . I do not worship Crowley . He was a man . He was an excellent occultist . He did not live a noble life . But that does not invalidate what he learned and taught about the occult . It would be a point in a debate about ethical behaviour but you digress .

I would like a clear explaination of exactly how you say you are using these magick squares to achieve a projection.

Leyla are you writing to me ? If so please address me . I saw your PM asking me to reply but it did not say what thread . You need to communicate better . If you are addressing me then I can only be more puzzled because I don't know what you are on about . What magick squares ? If this is not the post you wanted me to reply to please post the addy , thanks .

The astral is any place beyond an RTZ OBE where you can communicate with entities of a higher intelligence.

Actually this is incorrect . The Astral is not a higher realm  and the mahatma are not reached in the astral . There are links in the archives regarding accepted definitions of what the astral is . Good authors for you to research are Robert Monroe , Alice Bailey and , Franz Bardon .
The Astral Planes are defined in various ways but all definitions are similar . The Astral is either one broad areas above the etheric and below the monadic plane or it is defined as two or three regions called the lower , middle and upper Astral . I find that the three region definition is the most correct . The lower region begins above the physical plane and includes an etheric buffer that rises from the RTZ up into the astral . The middle is what all agree to be the astral having nothing else no etheric no higher realm entrance . The higher astral is usually the one people project to when they first enter the higher realms . This is the place that the akashic records are kept and there is an entrance to Shamballah there .

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17085&highlight=higher+realms+monadic+plane+astral
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16196&highlight=higher+realms+monadic+plane+astral

What the makes you think you're going "beyond the Astral?" Is there a sign reading "Now Leaving Astral City Limits?"

If you develop your senses you will know by seeing and hearing while in the realms . The Astral looks like clouds and mists with floating colours and other projectors but no angels or spirit teacher and no temples or forests . There are many descriptions of the realms on the net . Alice Bailey , Blavatsky , Hurtak , Stone , Monroe and Bardon wrote on them .

If you want to study projection, you're better off with the works of men like Bruce and Monroe.

I agree I have read all of Bruce's works he is an expert on the Astral  . Monroe explains the higher realms though through his phasing method to expand the consciousness .

This Order of the Golden Dawn you hold in such high esteem was based on forged "ancient" texts, which were exposed as fraudulent in their own lifetime.

This is your opinion and it is different than my own . It is not a fact . And I am not a member of the Golden Dawn but the members of the Golden Dawn have provided so much for the world in terms of occult information .

And Alister Crowly, whom you also seem to hold in great respect, may never have visited the Astral at all, claiming to have gained his "occult wisdom" from laudanum, opium, cocaine, hashish, alcohol, ether, mescaline and heroin.

That is not how his name is spelled and I am sure that he did go there because of his descriptions which match what I see when I go . He is the only one who describes the black cube . I have read his works and I feel you are greatly mistaken and misinformed  . Here is a clearer perception of his contributions . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley
http://www.cix.co.uk/~mandrake/crowley.htm

He is not alive to defend the allegations you have posted but i could if you would have posted valid citations . You have greatly exaggerated his faults and done nothing to show that you know the man . A lot of his works can be found online .
http://www.rinf.com/e-books/Aleister-Crowley.html

I agree OF is a good forum to learn about magick . I also suggest reading Franz Bardon's Initiation into Hermetics .

I have been practicing meditation and AP for some days now and was wondering if it matters whether or not my eyes should be open or closed. My closest experience to it was with my eyes open, staring at the ceiling until I began to see it change colours ever so slightly. Does it mean anything?

I close the physical eyes and look through the third eye to meditate or AP.I look at a focus point  through the third eye and draw myself towards it to project the etheric body after my legs begin to feel the vibes .

He's back but I don't think there is a forum here ;
http://www.jonasridgeway.com/

other sites
http://astralforum.kiwibonga.com/
http://www.astralsociety.com/
http://www.occultforums.com/
http://forums.astraldynamics.com/
http://www.sacred-magick.org/lofiversion/index.php

[Male : Front and Right]

Male : Front and Right  
Female : Back and Left

[uselsess.]

Enochian, Kabalah, High Magick posted by Layla

I must say I still find it quite uselsess.   Seems full of complex symbols, names, talismans, tablets, and hard to pronounce names all of which are designed give the impression of being of great importance somehow. :evileye:   I have certainly never used any of these things to achieve an OBE or AP, despite the fact that is what they are supposedly designed to do for you.

But these methods are not for AP , these are for other realms .

It  

Please Layla , what is IT ? What books ? What authors ? Selski wants to know too , thank you  .

promises that if you become a "true magickal dragon" you can "roam freely through all parts of the universe both visible and invisible."It's got this whole list of things you must first complete before becoming an "Enochian Dragon." (oooooh.) - Has had the conversation with his/her guardian angel.(Did this before I bought the silly book.)- Safely passed through spiritual realms beyond and returned with full memory of the experiences.

Did you project beyond the Astral though ? The point of such  books , Selski and Layla , is not about AP or etheric OBE as in RTZ either . The abyss is not in the Astral either .

(Who here hasn't. )Safely passed through spiritual realms beyond and returned with full memory of the experiences

Selski says that they have not .

Has encountered both angels and demons.(Whatever you want to call them.)- Has wandered the invisible pathyways of the watchtowers and aethyrs(You mean had an AP? ) - Has had at least five major ordeals.

Selski , this is where the demon is  mentioned by Layla .  

(Traffic this morning was an ordeal....)I saved the best for last.... - Has successfully faced the archdemon KHORONZON in the Great Outer abyss!
(BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!) :locolaugh: So. Anybody here met him? 'Cause I've been to the great abyss, and know a few other people here who have, and I never met any MR. KHORONZON. Nor have I heard his name mentioned outside of this book. Maybe he was away from his desk? Should I have left him a postet? "Leyla was here, 5am, Wednesday." Should I keep going back 'till I find him, then insist that he terrorizes me properly? I have met one dragon while on the astral, and he did not have any of the fancy titles presented by this book. I have been called a dragon once while on the Astral, but I assure you, it was nothing like what they describe. And I would like to add, the Arch-Angels/Spirit Guides I have met did NOT go by the weird names laid out in this book. But wait, there's more....It lays out this whole strict higherarchy, in STAGES and GRADES and LEVELS. More titles than they've got at the Vatican .WTF My question is this: On WHOS AUTHORITY do they lay out these stages, grades and levels? Who told them that was correct? Why does somebody over on this side, think they get to dictate to me who I am, what grade, level, stage, and title I have, over on the other side? Far as I'm conscerned, the only entities with the authority to give me a "progress report" on my soul, are my personal guides, my God/s, and myself.

Hi Hagethuriel , Whilst I don't want to knock your beliefs in any way whatsoever, it is posts like yours that make me want to walk away from the whole AP thing.

Selski you are confused , please understand that  this is not my post . Layla wrote the post  titled Enochian ,Kabalah , High Magick and it is not about APing .

Just what is "above" the astral?  How do you know it's "above"?

Because kabbalahistic authors have written about this for over two thousand years and in contemporary times the now deceased Robert Monroe also  wrote about the other realms he phased into eg the spirit homes of the deceased beyond the AStral .Franz Bardon , Aleister Crowley ,  Alice Bailey etc have written about the realms beyond  the astral . But this thread is not about the astral or about APing . This thread is about Kabballah and Spiritual Realms .  I know these authors are right because I project there and because I have these experiences too .

Am I right in assuming the physical is the lowest realm/plane/whatever term you wish to use?  

No actually. There are lower ones . AP is only about the Astral Planes and does not include RTZ or totemic planes or Hells .

The GA with the HS?  Can you please let us know what you mean by GA and HS.  Guardian Angel?  Higher Something?

I think Layla might have been reacting to Aleister Crowley's books  but I am not sure .

Layla wrote "Has had the conversation with his/her guardian angel."

Aleister Crowley writes about K&C/GA  , the Knowledge and communication with the Guardian Angel and Higher Self . But I do not know which books or authors Leyla is disparaging because  these are not cited or sourced . Suppose you ask her because I would like to know too ?  

I know it might be obvious if you've read the books, but some of us haven't, and I for one would still like to follow the thread, if only to decide whether I wish to read these books or not.

I agree please ask the author of the thread to cite the references and sources for us both , thank you . Selski hun I am not the author of this thread . I only posted the last reply before yours . Did you read the whole thread ? If not maybe that will help you to understand it better

Kether  Archdemons???

Sigh , maybe you should ask Layla . Kether is in the Kabballah again that is what the title says this thread is about . I do not understand why you don't know this . Are you a native english speaker Selski ? If not maybe someone can translate this or explain Kabballah and Kether and archdemons and the abyss to you . Is there a glossary here ?Or do you know how to Google ? Maybe you could google it and find out .  I don't know what else to write to make you comprehend this passage but it is tiring me out . Layla wrote about crossing the abyss .

Layla wrote ; " Has successfully faced the archdemon KHORONZON in the Great Outer abyss! "

This is done by going through Daath to Kether . Ok ? These are sefiroths or spheres in the Kabballah . You know what the Kabballah is don't you ?

AP'ing is starting to sound like an organised religion from what you are saying, with realms and higher/lower planes and demons and whatnot.

No you are confused Selski . This thread is not about AP and I did not post it and I did not write about seeing demons in AP , Layla did . And Kabballah is not about APing . And High Magick is not religion . But why are you asking me ? I see you are a moderator so you must know how to do a search . I would think you were writing to Layla but you addressed your reply to me

Hi Hagethuriel , Whilst I don't want to knock your beliefs in any way whatsoever, it is posts like yours that make me want to walk away from the whole AP thing.

and this really confuses me . I don't know you . I don't understand how much you comprehend of what you read or what your background is . I cannot understand how to make you see that this thread is not about AP and that I did not write it  and that I did not write that demons are in the Astral . Layla wrote that and said that it was "dumb" but the archdemons are in the Abyss on the way to  Hell so Layla also seems confused . Layla could not have been expected to meet any archdemons  in the Astral Planes at all .

Based on the fact that I haven't a clue what you are talking about, I guess I've only ever been to the astral plane, which is probably the next step up from the physical and is hardly worth bothering with when you've been to the Spiritual Realm.  

AP again ? See there is the problem right there , this thread is not about AP . Demons are not in the Astral . Well maybe human hosts can carry some there but I have never seen one there . This thread is about the Kabballah and the higher planes reached if a magician works in kababalistic magick .

Sheesh, if this is where AP is headed, I'm going the other way.Sarah

Sigh , yes ,perhaps that is best .Maybe as a moderator you  could move this thread  to Magic because it could be that readers of that forum would have the prerequisite skills and background knowledge to comprehend it and reply with a fundamental basis of understanding .But I did not post this thread . Maybe ask Leyla why it is here instead of asking me what the basic terms of this lexicon are  .
<BR>
Certainly some readers  in an OBE forum would be expected to know about phasing and Robert Monroe's works to reach these levels of consciousness though. You could ask the members on this  thread about other realms from the Astral or the Physical ,maybe .
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23563&highlight=
I am sorry Selski , if  I did not make this easy enough for you to understand this time but I tried though .

Did you check out Franz Bardon and his works? I read "Initiation into Hermetics" and I'm impressed how he in a very good way explained tetragrammaton, four elements and much much more. What do you think of him and his works?

The 10 steps on the Path of the Magician is an incredible journey and not too difficult at all . This is in IIH but the Key to the Qabballah has more obvious errata . If there are errors in IIH I have found nothing major yet . I love FB!
His book IIH  teaches control of the hermetic elements , how to begin the emerald tablet and how to begin the kabballah . This is a great first step for any magician .

This may sound stupid but I cannot sit in this "meditation" position, or lotus position or call it whatever you like.
Does some of you have any exercises how to sit in this position?
Thanks,
AP

Do you want to? If so stretch take yoga and try pilates and swimming .
If not then sit in arm chair or lie down .

There are ways to switch off or tune out just as there are methods to tune in by raising energy . A blue umbrella visualisation closed over ones head is a good way to slow down that floating feeling . Drawing up earth energy is grounding too .

Hmm I've been finding this a problem. I'm horribly tall, about 5'9" and I cant go to bed without my feet being obstructed by the end of my bed when I try to prepare for an OBE.

Does my whole body need to be free of all obstruction? Because it does kind of bother me that my feet are being pressed upon while trying to leave my body. Should I try a different position in bed where no part of my body is touching any near by objects? (besides my back and such)

You could try to buy an extension for your bed like they use in the hospitals for tall patients . You can project though from the fetal position too . Try lying on your left side .

I like this description of phasing into the Monroe method .
http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Forum/index.php/topic,17670.0.html

I have certainly never used any of these things to achieve an OBE or AP, despite the fact that is what they are supposedly designed to do for you.

Fair enough ,but have you ever projected above the astral ?

It promises that if you become a "true magickal dragon" you can "roam freely through all parts of the universe both visible and invisible."

Who wrote that , please  ? Was it Crowley ?

- Has had the conversation with his/her guardian angel.
(Did this before I bought the silly book.)

What book please ? K&C / GA is good but the important bit is the re uniting of the GA with the HS  .

- Safely passed through spiritual realms beyond and returned with full memory of the experiences.
(Who here hasn't. )

Don't knock it until you try it .Most  have never been to the spiritual realms . What realms have you seen Layla ? Please describe them .

- Has wandered the invisible pathyways of the watchtowers and aethyrs
(You mean had an AP? )  

I think  these magician authors  are speaking about the higher planes that are not reached through AP .

So. Anybody here met him? 'Cause I've been to the great abyss,

I don't think anyone can cross the abyss without going to Kether .  I don't think archdemons are in the Astral . But please explain how you got to the abyss and what did you see there ?

Who told them that was correct?

Who are they ?What authors are you "quoting"? What makes them readable and loved by magicians is that the classic authors wrote what can be validated by us today . The proof is in that .  We confirm them by projecting to the spiritual realms that they described .

I see these do merge into each other so RTZ is physical and ethereal
and Astral has 1 to 3 planes according to various opinions but I think the ethereal begins in RTZ and continues up to the lower astral . The higher astral merges into the Akashic Records.

Does anyone know what the focus levels from 35 to 49 are ? I have never heard of 49 . Does anyone have a link to a description of these ?

Focus 3: State of increased mental coherency and balance
Focus 10: Mind Awake/Body Asleep
Focus 12: A state of expanded awareness
Focus 15: State of no time
Focus 21: The edge of time/space - contact other energy systems.
Focus 22: live ones in comas, or the insane a chaotic level
Focus 23: dead "stuck" confused about or unaware of their death,ghosts
Focus 24,25,26: Belief Territories of Afterlifers
Focus 27: Afterlife free will created by humans resembling earth
Focus 34-35 is the locale having group consciousness entities also known as the monad or oversoul. -Robert Monroe Institute