Messages

Skippy,

You can have an obe in any position, even sitting up in a chair, as I have!

However you also have to remember psychological conditioning. If sleeping on your side is your usual position for falling asleep then this is very likely to happen if you lie on your side and try to project. If you do not normally sleep on your back, then perhaps you should choose this position to project.

This means that when you lie on your back you are sending a message to yourself that you want to project. Once this becomes ingrained then it can lead to a higher rate of obes as the obe sequence can be triggered in your sleep if you happen to role over on your back during the night.

Doug

Drift,

The blackness you describe is what others refer to as FZ or the '3d blackness' and this state is basically the bridge, the point at which your own mind meets the wider astral. It is the launch pad for exploring Wifer Reality.

Doug

I agree with Enoch, if you've experienced AP then how can you become a skeptic when you've experienced the proof
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Actually, it is possible for this to happen if somebody does not have any results for ages. Eventially the doubt and scepticism do start to creep in, especially when the individual is constantly bombarded with sceptical reports and the general cynicism of modern society. It is amazing how quickly the human mind forgets things. That is why it is important to keep practicing all the time.

PatternsComingToLife_

You do appear to talk a complete load of nonsense although you may think that what you are saying is incredibly witty, but anyway, on to more important matters...

I'm sorry that we can not be any more specific about Frank. This is not due to some grand conspiracy. Quite honestly, we do not know any more about his condition than you. In fact, we are not even aware what his condition was apart from the fact that it was very serious and life threatening. He stated at one point that he believed he only had a 15% chance of making it through to October... last year!




   

Sorry, that sounded a bit official! 

For those who are wondering about Frank:

He was very seriously ill the last time we communicated with him and we have come to the conclusion that he has since died or is at the very least completely incapacitated.

We are not aware of any other information at this point and all attempts to contact him have failed.

mjolnir_knight_

You are in a typical negative sceptical thought spiral due to a lack of perceived success.

You need to realise that you are in a downward spiral and you need to break out of it. The reason you are in a downward spiral is because you are having little or no success, leading you to question if it was ever real at all. The reason you are having no success is because you have started on a negative downward spiral. These two aspects reinforce each other.

From your post I can gleam that you have been reading up on sceptical journals and other scientific papers and articles which are by default opposed to the reality of OBEs or anything outside of the 'accepted' scientific view of reality. Believe me, filling your mind with such mind limiting information will in no way cure you of your negative view of OBES.

The reason you had so much success to begin with was because your mind was completely open to the reality that was presented to it, you did not question it but accepted it. You need to get your mind back to that original state if you wish to progress.

Remember that many of these scientific journals are not taking a truly scientific approach in my opinion. None of the author's statements are based on personal experience. In my view the only way to verify something is through direct experience.. this is the true scientific method.

Many so called scientific journals are actualy not scientific in their approach but offer biased judgements based on personal opinion.

For example, scientists recently published an article which talked about how experiments had highlighted areas of the brain which become active during obe states. The article said that this was 'bad news' for those who thought that astral experiences were 'real' and involved a reality beyond the human brain.

In my view this is a huge jump and is not a true scientific statement but a personal opinon. Just because scientists have managed to observe the physical effects on the brain of an obe experience, this in no way implies that the experience is not real. For example, consider the very likely possiblity that the brain is the interface between the mind and the body: then we would expect to observe some kind of physical effect on the brain during an obe. The point is, scientists just don't know so they shouldnt then go on to give pronouncements based on personal opinons. This is not the role of science.

Basically, you may have developed some skepticism towards obes, but I would advise developing some scepticism towards 'scientific' viewpoints. Don't listen to others who have never experienced OBE phenomena themselves. What do they know? Explore these possibilities for yourself with a TRUE open mind and see what happens. Break the spiral of negative sceptical thinking!

There is a fundamental problem about trying to get to the moon and other galaxies etc from a direct real time projected state. Although this problem also applies to any real time projection, even to the next room:

It is very hard to know if you are still in the real time physical zone or whether you have accidentally slipped into the astral, in which case you are just visiting an astral zone that has shaped itself to resemble your perception of the moon.

This is a problem if you have trouble keeping your mind's creative abilities under control during a projection.

I have never tried to fly to the moon but I would imagine it would be very difficult not to slip into the astral somewhere along the line, simply because of the awesome, mind boggling nature of what you are trying to attempt.

That's why I get a bit suspicious when people say they flew to the moon and Mars etc and met up with aliens, visited alien cities etc... sounds very astral to me!

Doug

I remember I had my first lucid dream when I was in primary school, I must have been 10 or 11.

I was dreaming that I was walking through the school corridors to assembly (which we all did once a week on a wednesday to hear assorted bore-inducing lectures from the head teacher etc)

However as we were all walking along, I suddenly 'woke up' in my dream and realised that I was dreaming; I became almost 100% aware. I knew I could not be in school going to assembly as I knew for a fact that it was Saturday morning and I was still in bed. This really freaked me out although at the same time I found it facinating and pretty cool. I remember the absolute reality of the situation; how real my feet felt as they hit the floor as I walked, how real my school mates seemed, I ran my fingers along the wall as we were walking along and I marveled how totaly real and solid it was. It must be one of the most lucid moments I have ever experienced until my astral experiences many years later.

I woke up eventially (waking up to physical conscousness) but the experience left a real impression on me as the experience was so real, as real as anything in the waking world, yet apparantly this dream was 'not real'. It led me to question the whole nature of reality and just what 'reality' is, and this was when I was 10 or 11!!!

I guess this may have been the moment that set me on the path to the astral world and its exploration. I haven't looked back.

Yes Equalthoughts, an excellent example of the energy sensations assiociated with a projection into the physical zone.

I for one can never make sense of writing when I come across it in astral explorations. It is always nonsense. It always *almost* looks like something readable but never quite makes it. Often it shifts in front of my vision and doesnt settle into anything readable. Nowadays, I tend to ignore it when I come across it.

Fair enough, other chakras may be utilised, but I would certainly recommend the heart chakra for projection. however, this is only advice, use whatever you feel comfortable with.

I suppose I would have to class myself as a pagan:

but as Lord Summerisle says in 'The Wicker Man', "a heathen perhaps, but not an unenlightened one..."

Hello folks, nice to be back. Hello Mustardseed and Beth!

Somebody said 'Pantheism as discussed in that link and others is a relatively new and western concept.'

I'm not convinced by this line. The thing is, the label 'pantheism' has several interpretations or flavours, but I would not say that in its various forms it is a 'modern concept'.
As Beth says, the Greek 'Logos' is a version of this concept.

The Stoics definitely believed in a 'pantheistic' vision of the universe. In neoplatonism and various classical pagan philosophies, the gods are better imagined as avatars or personifications of this cosmic totality which we can use to identify and communicate with the All, as to try to comprehend the All in its totality is impossible.

The Neoplatonists had a chain of being that went all the way down from the totality to the various individual gods. The simple peasants 'pagani' may not be aware of all this high philosophy of course, but high minded individuals like Emperor Julian, everyone's favourite pagan hero, got the idea.

A very pantheistic concept can also be found in Indian philosophy/religion. There are various branches of Hindu belief of course so we can't make sweeping statements, but one major strand views all the gods as avatars or means by which we can approach the unknowable divine All.
However, other branches of Hinduism state that we can indeed approach the divine all or 'Brahman' itself. In this later strain, 'Brahman' is personified to allow this to happen (as 'Brahma'), although this Hindu branch also continues to worship other gods as lessor aspects of Brahma.

The first strain of Hinduism is pretty much the stance of modern neo-paganism: where the divine All is unknowable (Brahman) and all personifications of this force via the various gods are equally valid means (indeed essential means) to communicate with it and for it to communicate with us.
The Christians were deeply influenced by Neoplatonic belief here as the figure of Jesus Christ can simply be viewed as another personified 'aspect' or way to approach the unknowable god, but pagans would say, why stop at him? There are lots of gods to choose from.

Within pantheistic thought there is a debate about whether the divine All is conscious of itself or whether it has no awareness as we understand it.
For those who say it is aware and intelligent, and  is therefore able to inspect its various parts objectively while still being part of them, this theory is sometimes refereed to as panENtheism, ie the total is more than the sum of its parts, but i would still class this as a variant of pantheism really.  The stoics certainly believed the Universe was aware, not that we could comprehend this consciousness of course.

Do not proceed to quickly. Take one step at a time and only move on when you are completely comfortable with what you have done so far. The reason I am saying this is to reduce the impact of fear. As they say in 'Dune', fear is the mind killer.

Noob, you were entering the '3d blackness' state that you may have heard elsewhere. There is noting to be worried about although I understand your fear, seeing how it was the first time you had experienced it.

The 3d blackness, or F0/FZ is the buffer zone between your mind and the astral world. If you had kept going you would find yourself floating in a black void which is really a combination of your own mind and the wider astral world. It is the bridge state and launch pad to everything else.

From there you could just hang around and enjoy floating around in the blackness. Imagine any piece of music. You will hear it all around you in glorious stereo! Imagne any scene, you will find an 'astral screen' will open up playing that scene exactly!  Will yourself to travel to some astral location, you will travel there, typically via some astral screen that opens up somewhere in front of you in the 3d blackness. In this way astral screens function as doorways.

The 3d blackness state itself is quite safe and you wont come to any harm. All you need do at any point is will yourself to 'wake up' and you will. Actually, you will find the opposite problem: trying to stay there is the hard bit!

It really depends on the individual. I try to practice with eyes closed but this is because I have a vested interest in learning to remain focused and awake while my body drifts off. This is because I practice phasing so it is important to be able to learn to stay focused while the body drifts off, which takes a lot of practice as it is the natural inclination of the mind to switch off as soon as your body relaxes.

The third eye is not the chakra used for astral projection.

The correct chakra is the heart chakra.

People who experience astral projection for the first time frequently report how they feel their heart pounding at such a rate that their chest would explode. While a racing heart is to be expected, in fact the sensation is actually the heart chakra or energy centre opening up and generating the required energy for the real time projection. The chakra has to create a temporary second body (or ethereal body) for the duration of the experience.

I have felt this the first time I ever attempted projection so i speak from personal experience, the power of the heart chakra at full tilt can be a terrifying experience if you don't know what is going on. I certainly felt like my chest was going to explode!

Funnily enough, in later experiences i dont experience the sensation as much, but I think a lot if it has to do with your focus of awareness. You typically do not experience this sensation during 'phasing' where you are transitioning to the astral proper and there is no need for an etherial body. The second body is only generated for real time physical projections.

Anyway, next time you feel this, try not to worry about it. It is perfectly natural and is not in any way harmful, but it can distract you so you need to keep focused.

Ketchup_

The '3d blackness' state or F0 or FZ can be viewed as the buffer zone, the point where your own mind meets the wider astral world. It is the true transitional bridge between your mind and the astral, which is why you can transition from observing images in your mind to actually stepping into them and into the astral proper. Whenever we transition or 'phase' into the astral, either on purpose or when falling asleep, we always pass through this bridge, but we very rarely get a glimpse of it.

Using this method we can take the process slowly and actualy spend some time in this buffer state.
From here, the entire wider reality is open to you. All you need to do is will yourself to go there and you will feel yourself fly through this space towards the area you wish to focus into.  Often the gateway aspect of this state is symbolised by lots of tiny points of light or other shapes. Typically, when you place intent to travel towards any of these colours or points of light you will find yourself flying into them and they will expand and envelope your awareness. At this point you will find yourself in some astral location or other.

The texture effect is an effect of the initial transition into the 3d blackness state. The textures will usually expand into various shapes/colours which can be focused on in order to travel to various astral locales.

Well, seeing how Scotland didnt qualify this time round and England is the only other UK nation to have make it into the competition, I am supporting England.


I think they can do it. As I write, they have just beaten Equador.

I hope Australia do well to.

Pass the sick bag...

"The opening statements in the gospel of John is, "In the Beginning there was the Word, and the Word was God, and the Word was with God." (I'm not 100% sure, it's been a while, so feel free to correct me.)"

Of course, in the original Greek, the term we have translated at 'word' is actually 'Logos' which is a far more subtle term, which really translates (clunkily) as 'active creative principle or 'rational active creative principle'

so the above line should really be:

'In the Beginning there was the Logos (rational active underlying principle), and the Logos was God, and the Logos was with God'.

We see that the line you quoted is exactly in keeping with what we have been talking about in this thread about god being a verb, metaphorically speaking. God is 'action', the ultimate expression of 'action' in fact.

Excellent account, thanks for sharing!

Doug

I really don't see the problem with 'idols' in any case. It is obvious that the statue or other representaition is there to represent the deity and provide a focus for the believer, just as a cross does.


I really don't have this odd fixation with finding 'idols' (love the negative terminology) 'evil' or wrong in any way. Its just a different system.

Much of it comes from the lack of understanding that christians have of other beliefs and earlier beliefs.

Many times i hear people brought up on christian bias to say that Greeks and Romans 'believed' that their statues in the temple WERE deities.

er no....
The statue was simply there to represent the deity and provide a focus for devotion. It doesnt mean that the statues actually looked like the deities. Rather they were a visual code for representing the power and function of the deity.

The beauty of a particular statue echoed the beauty of the divine being itself, but was not in any way meant to 'be' it.
Any more than a cross is meant to be Jesus.

Has anybody checked this out yet?
There does not seem to have been much press on it so far.

http://www.thesecret.tv/