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Hey Frank

After reading your last post another penny dropped for me or another piece to the puzzle. I've seen you mention the "phasing in" bit that Monroe often mentions, but I never entirely understood it & just put it down to personal descriptions or terminology to something I have allready experienced or will experience soon enough, but havn't got my own descriptive term to identify the actual process.

When I wrote about the blackouts I was thinking of the description that I have read in a few other books & experience myself, but now that I think about it I can see what you were/are trying to get your head around with phasing. Monroe used the term a fair bit, but I never put 2 & 2 together, so thanks for clearing that up for me, gives me a different spin to it now.

I recorded an OBE the other night before I went to sleep & it was most confusing as I was trying so hard just to keep focus on what it was that I wanted to do & maintain control so that I could record every detail along the way.  Basically I was trying to go to an upper astral level/ plane & I wanted to start from the real time zone, so I'll summarize the OBE I recorded to better explain.

"SKYSCRAPER"
Date: 10/ 7/ 02
Time: 22: 35 - 23:10
Brief description: Huge tower, elevator, 17th floor, 80th floor, panoramic views of a city & a nearby park.
Location: Started from bedroom,unidentified city, unidentified building, 17th floor, 80th floor.
Details: Usual relaxation process, felt myself drop down briefly then float up, blackout briefly or no picture or vision & then land at the end of my bed. Think to myself, I wish to go to an upper astral level, I look up & then the blackout again or no picture & I emerge inside an elevator with vision.

Nice modern looking elevator with LED display of floor levels, buttons black with red ring of light around the outside, I look at the numbers & see from basement to the 80th floor. For some reason I get a feeling about the 17th floor, so I push the button, I feel a brief rising but then the blackout again, no picture & then I get vision back & the doors open & I get out on the 17th floor.

Nothing remarkable about this floor, looks like a modern office & there is some people at desks working, one looks up at me & I feel he can see me, but it looks more like he was daydreaming. I decide there is nothing here for me to see & I go back to the elevator, it opens, I walk in & push the button to go to the 80th floor.

Again, the blackout briefly & then I get the picture back & the doors open onto the 80th floor. I get out & see an incredible expansive city that I have never seen before. I seem to be on an observatory level of the building & glass windows are on all sides, but I don't see any of those binoculars or telescopes you usually see in observatories, also the level is empty but for me. I am confused at where I am so decide to go back to my body, the blackout happens again & I sit up in bed & write it down.

So Frank, is the period where I move from one scene to another what Monroe means by phasing in? It's frustrating because it's so hard to tell what is happening in those moments of blackouts or if I'm right the phasing in period.

Good journeys all

Mobius

Hello all

The thing about the "conscious projection", from what I have experienced & read, is that...............damn it's hard. From everything I've read even the most experienced has a very brief "blackout" period upon trying to "consciously project". This has been a problem for me also.

The bit I'm talking about is when you are entirely aware of your body & the signals that you are about to project are strong, you either float, roll or fall out of your body ( that bit alone is hard enough to keep control of & not resist going back to the body) then there is like a brief second or two, where the picture seems to go black, nothing! & then you emerge into either the real time zone or an astral level, depending on what you were focusing on.

Then all of a sudden you are in a body that does things your physical body has never felt before & the mind grapples with what should be real & make sense to a physical body, this is a real problem & hard to get over once on the astral. You know you can fly, but your physical memories tells you that you will fall & hurt yourself, you know you can go anywhere in a thought, but choose to walk or take transport, you know you can go through walls, but the temptation is still to go around them.

Many experienced projectors feel they have projected to a particular place, but on arrival, nothing but blackness,giving them the impression of failure, only to have their experience validated through another source later on e.g

Muldoon & Dr Scott Rogo both reported cases where the projector went to a particular place on the physical, but reported nothing, only to later ask the persons they were trying to project to if anything happened. In both cases the unaware party saw an apparition or ghostly form in their bedrooms & were thouroughly freaked out. This sounds like a problem with the transmission of info somehow or like Robert says in AD, shadow memory recall problems.

There is so much to do & so much to learn there is enough for everyone to do experiments on, just not many volunteers willing to co-operate & not be freaked out, plus you need to live reasonably close to experiment productively enough.

Whoops, I'm late for work, cya's

Mobius

G,day Tom

It does look like tiny specs of energy & I have noticed also that there seems to be places you can see it easier. I live next to a national park & when I walk out near the trees I can see them quite easy & even demonstrate them to every person I've shown, but when I'm in town or even on the outskirts of it, there's an increasing difficulty.

I'm sure if we lined all the people up in here to show what they are talking about, it would be the same thing. It seems to be in abundance on the astral & when & if you get the chance to see your silver cord, the insides of it seems to be comprised entirely from these same little sparks.

In many OBE books they talk about one of the forms of body you can manifest into upon projection, "the point of consciousness", loosely described as a small spec or dot, (remember we are not talking about dust on your eye here).

I re-read some of the notes on SRI again recently & discovered a part where Ingo Swann describes seeing "Ionized particles" which formed into objects, while on his astral journeys. This is a very similar if not the same thing we are talking about here, but in the physical & they don't form into objects, well not that we know of......................yet.

We are all stars it seems, good journeys.

Mobius

Hey hey Atlas!

I knew you were around somehow & that this topic might have just been the one to get a post out of you again & if you saw your name & the things we were talking about you might be feeling a little de-ja-vu ( I need the spell check) like I was.

That was a hot topic back then & things havn't changed much now have they? I wonder if we will get this one up over a thousand times read as well?

There was heaps of links & good points put in from both sides, but I feel Osama is going to beat New age, I hope not as there is a lot to talk about.

Good to see you around again Atlas, you got some free time now that everyones bailing out of the U.S market,hehe.

Good journeys

Mobius

Hi all

I guess most serious readers of metaphysical concepts & OBE's etc. feel the cringe factor every time the words "New Age" are mentioned, so many OBE type sites refrain from using it, as for most of us it conjures up images of wide eyed space cadets, walking around in some pseudo- religous type dress, banging on bongo drums in a circle & generally looking like they would be more comfortable in a nut house.

I personally refrained from going to a site called " newage.com" that I was referred to, simply because of the image I had created in my mind of what I believed "new age " encompassed. After finally checking it out I found things of interest galore, especially OBE's, so the lesson was learnt, me ignorant of the whole picture, simply because of the name associated with it, talk about judge a book by it's cover, I was disgusted & dissapointed with myself.

Tom, I'm sorry if it came across as though I was having a go at you, that was not my intention, also instead of getting the battery out, get hold of a piezo ignitor & demonstrate the natural version of electricity, unfortunately when I was a plumber, everyone had one & seemed to find great delight in demonstrating the power of 2 crystals smashing against each other, especially if you werent ready for it, hehe.

Good journeys all

Mobius

G,day Shandor

I've allready checked out the chances of burning them, but havn't actually burnt one & done any tests to see if the binaural beats come through clear enough & the subliminal stuff as well. I talked to different people I know here in Oz about doing it but everyone was told the same thing, that the hemi-sync sounds don't come through properly & so lessen the experience.

After talking to a guy about the tapes, he convinced me about the cd's & although it cost me a bit more & had to buy a cd walkman/discman, I'm extremely happy with my decision. For one the cd doesn't slam off after 30mins & abruptly bring you back into full waking state like the tapes, also no tape hissing & no getting any tapes chewed up like I did with one.

I must admit, I have only had a couple of brief OBE's while using the cd's/tapes & that was in Wave 1 cd 3, focus 10 free flow & Wave 7 Moving into focus 21. Although from Monroes description on that particular focus level, that is not where I went. The next night I went to what he termed focus 21 or "the park or reception centre", but without the cd's. I think of them as going to the gym for your mind, a couple of days at the gym & you are sore & see no results, but a dedicated 1 week schedule does the world of good for enhacing yourself.  

After spontaneously having them since 6, but without control until about 21 & that was just the lucid dreams, as far as OBE's go I'm a bit like Frank, I can get out & get into some interesting places,higher & lower astral levels, real time zone, but it's all about the control, the control of the mind on what you need or want to focus on & keep it going, without fluctuations coming in & testing my powers of logic & rationality.

Sometimes just a word said from someone else or an idea put forth is enough to consider applying it on the astral & every experience whether dream,lucid dream or OBE is now recorded in a diary with their own little episode titles like "the puruit"  "the skyscaper" "family meeting" & dialogue follows.

As far as the companies I get them from, I've been shopping around to see which way works out cheapest. EREVNA is advertised in Nexus magazine as their Australian distributor, but all of them say that, they are in Melbourne. Inter- dimensions is run by a very smart and evolved individual on the Gold coast, he posts on the Monroe voyagers mailing list, & altered states is in New Zealand so is just right for our miserable dollar.

http://www.inter-dimensions.net

http://www.altered-states.net/

Good journeys mate

Mobius

G,day all

Hey you new guys didn't have a guy called Atlas on your board did you? Sounds like a rehashed version of his arguements we had back in "$1 million  reward for proof of OBE's".

Many of us here have science based backgrounds, if not studying science at present & are naturally skeptical ourselves, but there is a difference between being rational & logical & having an open mind. Many of my fellow students & lectures consider themselves open minded, but really, it's just being open minded within the scope of what they know, anything else doesn't exist for the present unless it's proved.

Just the fact that you guys didn't just stick to one source of information e.g science & skeptics forums, shows you think there must be more to the story than what you have discovered so far, otherwise you wouldn't need to come to forums where they nearly exclusively believe in OBE's & the paranormal & tell them they are wrong or because you personally have not experienced it, therefore it must be wrong or doesn't happen the way that others believe it to be.

I'm sure you wouldn't burst into a science forum or walk into a university & say that because they havn't discovered black holes or teleportation because you havn't experienced it, or read about it in a way that made sense to you, it doesn't exist.

The events at SRI & Fort Meade etc, were funded by the department of defence for the specific purpose of counter- intelligence, the Russians allready had it, spys had confirmed & so the military pumped millions into it. I'm sure if Ingo Swann & Hal Pulthoff told the top brass that what they were training people for, what pretty much amounted to an ancient art called Clairvoyancy as opposed to a more military sounding Remote viewing, it would have lost funding in a second.

There is enough evidence that when the r.v program ceased to be, the government conducted & continues to conduct research in private & secret. We all have the benefit of hindsight to scan the "de-classified" info released by the U.S, but why not all of it, if it was such a failure?

Most people back in the 40's & 50's didn't know the government was secretly racing the Russians to build bigger & longer range rockets after they discovered the Germans success at it. Even to the scientists involved, it was an exercise that seemed impossible, let alone putting a man into them, which was simply deemed impossible until they learned the Russians were doing it. Many mistakes need to be made first, so people can gain experience & learn from their mistakes.

If there was so little for people to believe in or to dissmiss so readily by scientific & military types, why then did the majority of them go through TMI? If R.V has nothing to do with OBE's why go to an institute that teaches OBE's?

"The longest run" concept is used in a link from a previous post on SRI's scientific data & an alalogy is drawn between the results of testing positive on R.V tests & home run rates from a baseball team! The logic used in that analogy defies logic by drawing a comparison between strike rates in the physical world compared to a non physical world, why not be fair & display the positive results from quantam physics exercises in comparison to R.V, I think we all know how many positive results will be found out of the millions of tests performed.

As everything in our physical world is dependant & reliant on money, it's not likely that the ones who DO have the positive results are going to rush out & give it to people for free, without working out someway of securing a monopoly on it or at least a patent, imagine the U.S scientists 50 years ago wanting to go around to skeptics or those interested to show them exactly how it works & that it does work, I think not.

Saying I can show you how electricity works if you put your tongue on a 9v battery is using the benefit of hindsight a little isn't it? Like Frank said, this is an emerging science, so with anything new & nothing to hold up like a battery for proof, there will always be those who think the battery came first & not the invention of electricity, which I'm sure you don't, but to cite a present product of a past invention is a bit late.

I love science & I'm quite skeptical too, that's why I'm studying science, but the people teaching & studying it are just as dogmatic & one eyed as religous teachers & students, plus have a system they have to conform to, so as to gain respect & credibility off their peers, who don't want their beliefs pulled apart, but still somehow call themselves openminded people.

I was going to post some links to add to my view, but have learnt that lesson before, as the saying goes "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink", people choose to believe & see what they want to see.

Try & keep positive guys & truly open minded & good journeys.

Mobius

G,day Shandor

Hehe, I thought, when people read that they won't know what I mean, doesn't matter, it's good that someone else can visualize the context in which I put it.

Seen you around a bit & liked your posts & also noticed you had the gateway series from another post. I stuffed up & bought the tapes in a set & now I'm replacing them all again on cd, I'm up to wave 5 & will sell the tapes when I get the whole series on cd. I find them fairly useful & believe they assist me in acheiving a meditative state, a trance state & OBE's.

I've bought mine from Erevna, Inter- dimensions & altered- states, you used any of those guys?

However, I was allready experiencing OBE's before I got them & was just hoping that they could assist me in having better control & to generaly refine the whole process, which they did.

The function of the silver cord & memory/ information transfer is an interesting concept on it's own isn't it? Thanks for the input & filling in the gaps for me, it's such a wide subject & so hard to be concise, but say what you want to say.

Good journeys all

Mobius

Hi Tayeowen

Going from a recent poll conducted by Adrian on how many in here have experienced OBE's before, there were many in the same boat as you Tayeowen, but people remain fairly positive in here, which is good, as I am sure the majority have had OBE's before but don't recall it exactly or they are just re-learning an old skill they had forgot about, that hovers at the corner of their subconscious.

I must admit, I have had them while being asleep & then realised I was out of body & then took off somewhere, but the majority of my ones, I notice the sensations or feel it first, as soon as I lay down & go with it.

Some historical OBE milestones I was reading about recently :

1882  The Society for Psychical Research (SPR)
702 cases cited, one member of SPR reported an astral voyage to the bedroom of two women he knew resided 3 miles away. They later reported to him that they were shocked by the sight of him standing at their bedside in evening dress.

1965-1966 Dr Charles tart was teaching at the University of Virginia school of medicine & conducted OBE research with Robert Monroe. Monroe's bodily functions were measured by machines during his OBE's. Tart instructed Monroe to project to another room & read a 5 digit number, he couldn't do it but heard the conversation of 2 technicians in another part of the building. Later a woman just called Miss Z correctly identified the digits, a chance of 100,000 to 1, although people have doubted that test.

Miss Z & Monroe both had pulse & brain wave patterns that did not slow down as they would in deep sleep, & REMs were completely absent, showing they were not dreaming, their EEG's showed a lowered voltage during OBE's as well.

1972 American Society for Psychic Research (ASPR)

Karlis Osis & Janet Mitchell studied artist Ingo Swann for 14 months, with similar results as Monroes.

1973 The Psychical Research Foundation (PRF)

Dr Robert Morris in North Carolina worked with Duke University student, Keith (Blue) Haray, who could project to a separate building, read some cards & reported to Dr Morris what he found. Harary perceived himself in 3 different forms 1) a glowing ball of either blue, white or gold, 2) a pinpoint with circular vision or 3) an exact duplicate of his physical body.

1973 Stanford Research Institute (SRI)

Physicists Russell Targ & Harold Puthoff conducted the now famous "remote viewing" studies with members like Pat Price, Skip Atwater & Joe McMoneagle, which was funded by the department of defence.

They defined remote viewing as a form of clairvoyance, but many including myself believe the results were gained more from OBE experiences & not some newly invented clairvoyant term called "remote viewing", funny how one of their most famous Joe McMoneagle found his way into TMI (The Monroe Institute) & into the world of OBE's.

Well, you guys probably knew a lot of what I just wrote, just thought I would whack it in there for some inspiration, anyway enjoy your stay Tayeowen & welcome.

Mobius

Hi Fallenangel & Countess

What the ! are we all doing our thinking at the same akashic record store or something ? I was just thinking about that Descartes concept last night & reading about it & then Fallenangel posts it! I read the counter to that question last night as well & then Countess posts it!  "Folks we are about to take a trip.............to the twighlight zone.

I was going to post on the concept of "I experience therefore I am" in the Integral Philosophy forum in here, under the topic of "Why do you believe in God / Creator ", so if you are familiar with Descartes, I encourage you to come on down to the God topic as we could use all the thought power in the world for that one.

I'll briefly expand on that counter, not that I know either are right, just food for thought: The following is from Freidrich Engels & Karl Marx, ( not my mates, or heroes incase any thought they were, just a quote) from "The material basis of morality" :  

"Consciousness can never be anything else than conscious existence, & the existence of men is their actual life process"

This really gets me thinking about our non physical bodies & how could something that has no definate form or a physical brain, learn, gain experiences & retain some form of memory? Even if something had no mind, just the multitude of experiences would be enough to give it direction & to at least feel in some way what it can & can't do, e.g a jelly fish.

So for the non-physical body, there has to be some way in which our non- physical bodies retain memory & have consciousness in between having a physical form & not having a physical form. I feel it wont be long before we discover that through quantum physics, like a matter form of having digital technology, lots of zero's & ones, that actually come together to form an interpretable image.

Sorry for rambling on with rhetoric, but FA7 & Countess, looks like we have been mulling over the same thoughts, hehe.

Good journeys

Mobius

Hi all again

BD & anyone else who comes over to this forum from other sites, welcome too, I'd say a great percentage of members in here are members in 2 or 3 other sites as well, I'm in 3 or 4 others myself & I think it's good for the learning process & gaining more experiences, but this one has become my favourite as the great majority in here are very understanding people.

You will find many skeptics in here too, including me, so don't be afraid to put forth ideas or concepts that you think might be too out there, we are all here to learn.

I don't know of anyone in here who has attempted astral meetings, I think they are exciting & good practice, but very subjective. I've tried it with various groups, but all the ones by correspondence seem to fail or are heavily subjected to reality fluctuations.

Trying to OBE to a place you havn't been to before, will definately be subject to fluctuations, trying to meet people you have never met in person is just as hard. But if you can have a set up where either all members are in the same room for the purpose of an astral meeting or all members have met before & have been to the same place you wish to target, then more positive results are found. How did you guys go? any positive results?

I talked to one of my science lecturers recently about what happens during dream, lucid dream & OBE states, her explanation was remarkably similar to yours Countess. She was telling me that it was all just electrical impulses sent to the brain from all parts of the body during REM, to be interpreted by the brain, which in turn showed the viewer metaphorical images for analysing.

The emotions & memories concept sounds similar to what Freud was trying to say & it fits well with me for explanations on dreaming, but not OBE's. From the age of 6 years onwards I would spontaneously leave my body, move a few metres away & actually see my body & what others were doing in rooms that blocked the view of my physical body.

Growing up in a Catholic/ Christian family was probably the worst thing for me, as when I would say to family as a kid " Hey Mum, you know when you are about to go to sleep & you fall through the bed into another place & float around, what's that?". The reactions from my family at the time, was blood draining from their faces in shock & told me it doesn't happen to any of them, & from every Catholic/ Christian explanation at the time it sounded like my soul was trying to escape from my body & to death.

This caused insomnia for me, because I thought if I let it happen (fall out of my body) & went towards any light, I would die. It took me many years before I gave up the fight of trying to stop my astral body leaving & one day decided, life is pretty crap, everything sucks, tonight when I fall out, I'm not coming back. Needless to say I did come back, but needed much more explanation than " don't do it, it's evil" or "it's not natural" or " it's just your imagination or electrical impulses".

For years before I actually went with the astral flow, I tried to give it every explanation besides leaving my body, but the nightly terror of falling out of my body had me checking the stability of my bed & I thought " just before I go to sleep, somehow the bed drops, like you have just got into a fast moving elevator, but going dooooowwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnn. From my Christian beliefs, down equalled hell. My bed didn't move, so there had to be another explanation.

I have talked to deceased relatives & found information that wasn't known to any living family members or have been told things I didn't know & then verified it later. Maybe when we get machines more advanced than electroencephalographs to measure the brain & body, we might all get some physical proof we can put our hands on, until then we can only share our experiences & theorise about what happens during an OBE.

Good journeys all

Mobius

G,day Countess

Welcome to Astral Pulse, I'm sure will will enjoy your stay. You will probably find a variety of positions held on what happens to the body during an OBE, but from everything I have read, dreams & lucid dreams are a mild form of an OBE, but when leaving the body & consciously choosing to do so & then either entering the real time zone or an astral plane, but choosing to do so is different I believe.

The different bodies contained within has been part of many religions & cultures for many years & Robert Bruce does a good job in describing logically our astral body & talks about a projectable double be generated from your etheric body, which stays with you until your physical form ceases to be, an original copy of all your information that stays until death.

So the consensus seems to be that we have 1) a physical body, 2) an etheric body & 3) the projectable double that the etheric body generates, that can either dream, but wake up & not realise it, or dream & realise your dreaming, or realising your dreaming & interacting by choice (lucid dream), or you can leave your body, but have been asleep, woke up & forgot, or you can be having an OBE asleep, but suddenly realise what is happening, consciously act or participate & then remember it when you wake.

Or you can be aware the entire way, realizing you have a projectable double & consciously choosing to leave the body, noticing the falling sensation or vibrations or rising/ floating sensations, being conscious of it happening & actually catch the astral wave like the silver surfer & move with a purpose to some destination or entity you wish to interact with.

Anyway, someone else might give you some other ideas as to what the consensus of this forum is, once again welcome & good journeys.

Mobius

G,day Ninthplanet

Mate good on you, they need more people practising it to bring the price down & with the general publics growing awareness they are shying away from some western medicines & therapies, he is never short of patients, good atmosphere too, relaxation music, lying down as opposed to most doctors visits you have today, in & out real quick & a bit impersonal.

I live in Brisbane, Australia ninthplanet & my friend lives & practices in Clayfield a northern suburb of Brisbane. I think he went to alternative medicine college for 3 years, then went to China to study more in depth & learnt Japanese accupuncture in Australia.

I really enjoy having the needles & you don't feel them unless you try to move, ouch, don't do that, me stoopid, I tried, movement = pain while having accupuncture done, so what better a time to go into trance, meditate etc than when you forced not to move, so you just lay back, let go of your body & let them move things around.

Seeing is believing I guess, as I must admit, I was skeptical at first, how could tiny needles as thick as a hair do anything? I was a bit of a Thomas in that situation, I had to see & feel improvement in whatever injury or ailment I had, & it happened. It's still hard to get my mind around how the hell it works, but it does, so seeing that & then reading NEW, I wasn't so quick to dismiss things said. I treated each exercise like they were from an alternative medicine textbook & tried it out & whatya know, it works!

Give us an update when you have it done & what you are getting treated for,( if it's not too personal) & tell us what you think, good luck.

Mobius

Hi everyone

I think it's just amazing that all these religous faiths oppose each others translations & beliefs, but are all trying to promote love & understanding.

Take Judaism, Christianity & Islam, ok they have different words, but their central deities are all the same, they all believe in the same God & many of the characters in each of their bibles are exactly the same person.

So why did the Crusades take place? Why the extermination of the Jews? I'm going to say that word again, pure evil manifested into paper form, MONEY ! hehe.

So why fight, if it's the very thing that most religions advocate, I don't know of a religion that doesn't in some way say this quote:
" Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself " .

Robin & James, welcome to the discussion, good to have some new input. Robin can you expand a little on your beliefs or ideas, I'm keen to learn about everyones beliefs/ ideas. I'm especially interested in what you mean when you say "God is Jesus, I have seen him many times".

James, good thinking mate.

Good journeys all

Mobius

G,day Fenris

I go to QUT at Carseldeine & Gardens point, I wish I was going to Griffith as it's only a 10 min drive as opposed to 30 - 40 min drive. Oh well, it feels like hell now, but I know in 10 years time it will seem like it only lasted a week.

Good journeys

Mobius

Hi Fenris

Mate don't get me started on the skinny stories...................... ok, you got me started. I was born with a skeletal disorder that makes my bottom ribs protrude further than the others, from primary school onwards I had constant jeers like "Are you an anorexic?" or " I've never seen someone as skinny as you" or "you should eat something", most of this came from people who weighed less than me, but because my bottom two ribs would protrude, it would look like I did have a "skinny" problem.

Ok, the Keeler method. If you want some info on it you can get it out of :
D.Scott Rogo "Leaving the body, a complete guide to astral projection", I got mine from the circle book store.

There is 3 components to the Keeler method & I will write down the recomendations for diet, but the other 2 components "Visualisation" & "Breathing & Relaxation" you probably allready are familiar with, so I wont include them.

DIET:
1) The student should begin by either fasting or by cutting down food intake.
2)No food of any sort should be eaten just before an OBE attempt. Overeating may bar any success at OBE travel.
3)No meat should be eaten during the training program
4)The diet should consist mainly of fruits & vegetables.
5)Carrots are extremely beneficial
6)Raw eggs are favourable to the diet & to OBE release.
7)No nuts of anykind are to be eaten.
8)Peanuts are especially bad (Not a nut, belongs to the pea family)
9)Liquids of all types are beneficial, but are not to be used in excess.

I have to stick to my seefood diet (Everything you see you eat, for those who don't know what a seefood diet is, hehe) & I have troubles sticking to that, my body has basically told me "Mate, I'm sorry, you will never see the other side of 75kg" & I'm over six foot too, which compounds the problem even more.

Good luck mate & keep us updated.

Mobius

I tend to agree that Mr Al Bieleks version sounds pretty out there & his predictions were very similar to ones predicted by Edgar Cayce that never came to fulfillment, L.A & california etc going under water in the years 1999 to 2000.

There are many sites that talk about the events that happened back then & if you do a search on Montauk or Philadelphia experiment, you end up with his name usually, even worse his site, which gives virtually no information but encourages you to buy his books & videos.

For someone trying to tell people about those events, he's doing a good job of getting people to dismiss it outright, a few more years of that & people will say the whole events & people involved were just myths, never existed.

Good journeys all

Mobius

Hi Ron

I've been following the Montauk/ Philadelphia/ HAARP story for a few years now & have written about it in this forum a few times, but no-one seems interested.

Incredible stories & if any of it is true it's frightening. My favourite site on it all is called "Lilith" "What the heck is the Montauk project", but I can't put the link up for some reason, tried it before, doesn't work, only on my favourites.

The events that supposedly happened in the Montauk base was the one that really blew me away. Maybe if we had someone in here from New York, they could take a drive up & at least see if the park & underground base is still active or exists at all. The Montauk site was also an ancient indian site, which had ancient pyramids on the site, also meant to be a significant geomagnetic hotspot, for all activities involving energy.

Interesting article, thanks mate.

Mobius

G,day Fenris

Unfortunately I'm in the same boat as you as far as weight goes. My metabolism is like a blast furnace & no fat seems to stick to me, damn. I know what it's like for people to say to you all the time, "Oh count yourself lucky", but at least they have the option of putting more weight on or losing it.

I went to a dietician & I was put on this program that bloats most people in a week, I went to the gym, at heaps of fat, bananas, milkshakes, junkfood & after 1 year of doing this I lost 2 kg.

I have never been able to weigh more than 75 kg or between 11-12 stone & I hate it, I'd just like to put on a few kilos for the winter like most animals do & then lose it in the summer when I don't need as much insulation, that would be nice. If I miss a couple of meals I will lose a kilo, so I just can't afford to.

The upside to my metabolism is, I rarely get sick, everyone around me gets colds & flus & I can drink from the same cup & I just don't get sick, maybe being a plumber had something to do with my immune system as well.

Sorry to get side tracked on me, now back to you Fenris. If you intend to go through with this method of dietary control for meditation & trance, have you checked out the OBE's through dietary control the "Minnie Keeler method" ?

Prescot Hall did some sessions with her & they came up with some pointers for dietary control for trance & OBE's, very interesting, you might find it useful.

If you havn't heard of it or want to know more, let me know.

Good journeys
Mobius

Hey Ralphm

Your right, they are mainly for cleaning your ears, they also clean the sinuses, the eustachian tubes ( the tubes that run between your ear & mouth) & equalize the pressure in your head.

You may not notice any problems with the pressurization of your head until you go up a mountain, fly in a plane or dive down deep in the water. Then you can equalize the pressure by swallowing in most instances, yawning or squeezing your nostrils closed & blowing until you feel the pop or equalization of pressure in your head.

The concept of the ear candles is similar to accupuncture & used by accupuncturists because of it's ability to mantain the correct flow of air in the skull, similar to equalizing the energies in your body through needles, reiki, NEW, just a small local version for your skull.

Most people probably don't need them unless they run into a problem with sinuses, eustachian tubes or blocked ears. After a plane trip recently, I noticed that when we descended, I couldn't equalize properly & my head felt pressurized at 26000 ft, when I was at sea level.

Ok, I'll stop rambling on, cya matee's.

Mobius

G,day Alpha

Good to hear about your experiences with religion & once again I'm going to have to vehemently agree with you.

"If you are a good person, you will go to a good place"

That I believe is the true meaning of words spoken by people like, Jesus, Buddha & Mohhamed.Truly great, great men of love, understanding & compassion.

The ten commandments supposedly passed to Noah are strikingly similar to concepts the egyptians wrote in the book of the dead, before Noah's time. Instead of "I will not kill" " I will not steal" etc it became "Thou shalt not kill" & " Thou shalt not steal" etc. Even the lords prayer was similar.

The word "Christ" was borrowed from the greek word "Kristos", meaning "King" & once again revolved around ancient egyptian beliefs of Gods, but was somehow down the centuries turned into "Christ, the son of God".

Last night my girlfriend & I went to dinner with some friends of ours, one of whom is a priest. When he found out I was doing science at uni, he started talking about evolution & how they have it all wrong, he didn't expect me to agree with a lot of what he said & assumed I had taken a stance against religous interpretations, but was even more stunned when I said scientists/ physicists believe the big bang started everything, but admit they come unstuck by the same arguement pointed at religions, "What came before that? How did the energy for the big bang come into existence?".

Anyway, good to hear from ya alpha, good journeys mate.

Mobius

Hi Patty

I find it a bit tough also to roll the eyes up & I don't understand why, as most of the people I have observed sleeping tend to roll there eyes back naturally once that unconscious state has been reached.

Two nights ago I was doing this & while I thought I was in the right state to have an OBE, nothing seemed to happen. I felt like I had lay there all night just trying to get to sleep & felt totally aware of the room around me & the sounds outside. I went to get up in the middle of the night to take a wiz, but my projectable double was allready out.

I never noticed the mind split for some reason & my double was off on the astral while my physical body experienced part "astral sight" & part "remote eye", until I went to move. I just caught the tail end of shadow memories coming in from the projected double & BAM memories of 5 different places & encounters came flooding back, leaving me thinking, how could I have missed that?.

The moral of the story I guess is, even though you think nothing at all happened, it did & there is a very good chance it's happened every time you have tried, it's just remembering our other life is a tough thing & anything you can do to record the events like a diary or note book is essential for getting you in the habit of remembering & gaining control of the OBE.

One of the OBE's I remembered was with my deceased grandfather at a place near the sea, big grassy area's around & hundreds of people just hanging around waiting for something, you guys sure ya's weren't there?

Good journeys all

Mobius

G,day Ralphm

My friend does, chinese & japanese accupuncture as well as laser for those who don't like needles. I always enjoyed a vivid OBE the night or morning following treatment. How the Qi or chi (pronounced chee) & the yang meridians they work with reminds me of parts of NEW, especially the detecting energy blockages or parts of the body that energy is not flowing properly.

The governor vessel they refer to corresponds with the chakra line between the lower sacrum or tailbone & the crown chakra, which seems to govern just about everything in our physical & non physical bodies, so working with this concept either mentally or physically is bound to do something.

I wish I could afford to go back again, I'm sure I will soon, the ear candles do a small version of balancing your system & I use them regularly, as they are cheap & get me by in the mean time.

Good journeys

Mobius

G,day guys

Hey Frank, while Monroe is amongst my favourite authors & have quite a few of the cd's & tapes now, he seems to borrow ideas & concepts from earlier OBE writers like Muldoon, Carrington & Fox, he was also fairly familiar with eastern metaphysical concepts, why he chose not to reference them is strange.

Although his more science based explanations stay away from religous sources, he certainly knew about them, maybe this is why he has attracted so many, by trying not to drop any religous terms like "Chakra's".

In doing this he appeals to those dubious of religion, people looking for more scientific explanations like you & I & even appealed to the U.S military.

While he doesn't mention energy raising in his books, on the cd's you would have found he talks first about drawing fresh vibrant energy into your body & then breath out & expel the negative energy or stale energy, drawing the energy into your head. Then using that energy to set up what he calls "REBAL" or the resonant energy balloon, by surrounding yourself in the energy that was stored by the energy raising technique.

Monroe doesn't mention "negs" directly, but in "Journeys out of the body" (pg260) he talks about an experience where an energy probe entered his forhead (or third eye, or brow chakra or pineal gland?) & began exploring his mind for something he couldn't comprehend. Quote from J.O.B :

"It had an intelligence of a form far beyond my comprehension & it came directly into my head & seemed to be searching every memory in my mind. I
was truly frightened because I was powerless to do anything about this intrusion"

He didn't exactly mention "negs" but if that happened to any of us, we would count that as a negative experience.

Another thing Monroe constantly refers to is converting your beliefs into "KNOWNS" & often writes it in upper caps. This is the crux of "Gnosis" or "Agnostics". GNOSIS literally means "Knowing" or only believing in things you "know". Strange that he constantly refers to this but never references it, as if it's something he alone brought into existence.

I'm not having a go at you Frank, these are just things I've uncovered lately through a little digging & I also get a bit perplexed at the overuse of Chakras, which could generalize a whole heap of separate activities that have nothing to do with your metaphysical body.

Quebec, maybe I could expand on what works for me using the technique Frank refers to.

Imagine or visualise all your brain activity or thoughts moving to the front of your skull into the frontal lobes of both sides of the brain & all that energy or information stored wants to get out the front of your skull, approximately centre of your forehead, through your pineal gland, which sits in the centre of both sides of the brain, shaped like a pine cone & about the size of a large pea. By rolling your eyes up as Frank mentioned you can focus on this area, about 15mm or 1/2 an inch inside your forehead.

This is just one of the many methods of drawing focus to that area & I don't need to raise energy, meditate or listen to hemi-sync to do it. Although lately I've been realizing the more time I spend on energy raising, the better chance I have at recall, going to higher astral levels & general control while I'm on the astral, but is not necessary for me to get out in the first place.

Sorry to butt in, hope I could be of some help & all the best on everyones journeys, cya's.

Mobius

G,day mate

Not sure who you were addressing there, but I agree with a lot of what you say. Arguements? I didn't think we were arguing about this & I hope others havn't declined to post because they feel it could become too hot.

Please, everyone & anyone put forth your ideas & beliefs, there is so much we could all learn.

Personally, I don't have any of the answers, all I can work with is what I know, from either physical information sources, probably no where near being a primary source. Or information gleaned off the astral in one way or another, which is not easily verified.

I would love to hear from any asian members of this forum, especially if they are in an asian country, as to what guides they see, the stuctures on the astral, higher & lower entities, encounters with any asian deities & is there many authors or institutions they know of that deals with OBE,s & the astral planes?

Good journeys all

Mobius