Messages

Thanks - I was a little sceptical about them, especially the last book which was not released until after the translator's death.  Some ideas are very nice though, a lot nicer than many prevalent 'christian' attitudes.
I turned veggie recently, it was something I thought I'd never be able to do - addicted to bacon sandwiches.

Hey Logic, trains are funny things, lots of symbolism - and as you say when you're on them everyone does their best to ignore one another but you can hear their brains whirring!
Your post made me dig out a poem I wrote 13 years ago (late attack of teen angst or something), and just inspired me to finish it off! Doubt if it will help you decypher your dreams but here goes:
(You may not get the punchline unless you've been on a London Underground train.)

What are you on?

Am I on an underground train?
And did I really scream
And scream until my lungs were empty
And my eyes were full of stubborn tears?

"Can none of you hear me?"
"Can nobody see past their paperback book?"

I brace myself as a head turns to look...
It's my head and I'm looking inwards.

I've built a little metal cocoon
With little unwashed windows to distort the view outside
And little sliding doors so people can come for the ride

And all that time there was a little sign above my head
"Penalty for improper use - only fifty quid" it said.

I'll extend the experiment until 11th June to give others a chance to participate, although given halfphased's results so far there is a danger you may catch me in the shower.[:O]

I'm glad some people are brave enough to have a go!

halfphased - not the target but a very accurate description of my room downstairs which aside from boxes of stuff has only a tall lamp and a chair as furniture!

I have a copy of the 'original' remote viewing manual used by the military. I've uploaded it to the e-books section of the file library.

From:
www.audarya-fellowship.com/showflat/cat/hinduism1/35348/0/collapsed/5/o/1

I particularly was interested in the bit that starts:

Within the human species, we find both higher and lower species who are more subtle than ourselves.



In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It has always been my understanding that the higher you go up in the 14 planetary systems, the subtler the inhabitant's bodies are. I concluded that the lower you go, the opposite is also true. But, I'm not so sure any more. Would you be able to clear this issue for me?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Though it is true that the bodies become more subtle as we go up in the fourteen planetary systems, it is not true that the bodies become more gross as you go down below the earthly planetary system. In regards to the physical nature of objects, the earthly planet is the lowest or grossest. The seven lower planetary systems are actually heavenly planets. Srila Prabhupada uses the words "subterranean heavenly planets" (bila-svarga) to describe them. These lower heavenly planets are actually materially more opulent than the higher planets. This is because most of the inhabitants are demons, and their interest is only in sense enjoyment. These planets are mostly inhabited by yakshas, rakshasas, nagas and danavas, who are much subtler than us.

The Sutala-loka is ruled by Bali Maharaja, who is a rakshasa. The inhabitants of these planets are described as possessing similar qualities to those of the devas. For example, they do not grow old, they do not perspire, they do not get sick, and they do not get grey hair.

In the Vitala-loka, a form of Lord Shiva resides along with many bhutas (goblins). The bhuta is a lower human species than us, yet it is more subtle. The planetary system known as Talatala is ruled by the demon Maya Danava.

The Patalaloka is inhabited by the nagas, a type of heavenly snake. Nagas possess three forms, one as a human, one as a snake, and one as a half-human half-snake. They are able to change between these three forms at will. These nagas have special jewels on their hoods that emit tremendous light, and this light illuminates the entire subterranean heavenly planets. The light of the sun does not reach the lower planetary systems, so the inhabitants depend on the light from the nagas for illumination.

Among the fourteen planetary systems, only three systems are visible to the human eye. These are the bhur-loka, bhuvar-loka and svar-loka. Other planetary systems, even those situated below the earth, are not perceivable to us. Thus all the stars and planets we see in the night sky, even with the aid of a telescope, belong to these three planetary systems, with a few rare exceptions.

Below the fourteen planetary systems in the intermediate space between the Garbha ocean and the Patalaloka exists the abode of Yamaraja. There are two aspects to this abode, one is the Pitru-loka, where saintly and religious people dwell, and the other is the Naraka-loka, or the hellish planets where the sinful are punished.

It is interesting to note that even the lower species in the other planetary systems are more subtle than ourselves. For example, the animals in the gardens of heaven, nandan-kanana, are physically subtler than our own bodies, despite ourselves belonging to the higher human species. They may be generally within the mode of ignorance, as animals are, yet we are still elementally grosser than them. If for some reason one of these animals were to be standing before us, we would not even be able to see them unless they revealed themselves to us.

Within the human species, we find both higher and lower species who are more subtle than ourselves. Yakshas and rakshasas are higher, and naturally more subtle, but bhutas and pishacas are lower species than us, yet they are also more subtle.

The inhabitants of the lower planets are generally described as asuras (demons), but we must understand that asura is not a species but a mentallity. Yakshas, rakshasas, etc., are species, whereas asura is a level of consciousness. One may even be residing in svargaloka, but if he is averse to the service of the Lord then he is an asura. In this sense there are only two classes of men, sura and asura, or the devotee and the atheist.

The sura or deva is defined as follows:

vishnu-bhakto bhaved daivah

"Those who are devotees of Lord Vishnu are known as deva."

The asura is defined by Lord Krishna at length in the sixteenth chapter of Bhagavad Gita, but in short it is like this:

pravrtitim ca nivrittim ca
jana na vidur asurah
na saucam napi cacaro
na satyam teshu vidyate

"Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them."

Thus we find that there are many cases of people who are rakshasas, yet who aren't asuras (demoniac). And on the other side we have people who are from higher births, yet are asuras by nature. One such example among the rakshasas is Bhakta Prahlada. Though being a rakshasa, he is the highest devotee of Vishnu.

A striking picture... but I bet we're all still here next month.

Strangely all you need is a a co-ordinate reference (in this case AP1)
I've had pretty good results at this - they used to do a 'target of the week' on this board:
http://grillflame.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=15

You can have a look at past targets and see how accurate people were.

Not really. Suffering is a by-product of re-claiming good karma. The suffering forces you to good things.
You sound like you're saying you don't suffer as a result of bad karma and that suffering does not contribute to working out your bad karma.

From my experiences you can never really wipe the slate clean. Only good Karma can counter act bad Karma

Ooh the suffering, let's not forget the suffering.[:O]

Nagual:
Did you try to find out...?
Like, did you question your relatives/acquaintances? The "mirroring" guys? The evil telepaths? Did you ask bystanders if they saw something strange too?
I did question people at first, but got the distinct impression I literally should not speak.  That's difficult if strangers keep on coming up to you and trying to strike up a conversation.

Did you notice anything out of context while you experienced those things? Was everything looking like reality? No house that should not be there? Etc...
Mostly the places etc. stayed the same and looked normal.

Any special event that triggers/stops it?
Just the passage of time, I think.

A lot of what happened I feel somehow I shouldn't talk about right now, but no way was this just a hallucination.

Mystic Cloud,
Thank goodness for that, I'm not alone.  You are right about the guys in sunglasses too, this seemed to be a big deal with some of them.  On one occasion I took my normal glasses off and observed two people I was with stumbling around frantically almost bumping into things and talking gibberish as a result for a few minutes.  Things seem largely back to normal for now...

I would have thought the same thing only a couple of months ago.
Let's say my horizons have unpleasantly broadened.
As it is, what you said is exactly the sort of reaction I would expect from either a healthily sceptical person, and also from someone wanting to hide the fact that this really is going on.  Incidentally if you were to tell a shrink about your astral experiences, give them the slightest chance and you will be taking mind-altering substances yourself.

I'd like to know how you differentiate between real psychic dreams, and other random dreams.

Hi!  Have you thought about keeping a dream diary?  Perhaps by writing them down and analysing which ones seem to be significant you will be able to identify qualities of the dreams, (e.g. degree of lucidity, vividness of colours, disposition of dream characters etc.) that distinguish them from ordinary dreams?

For me I find that the closer I am to waking consciousness during a 'dream-like' experience the more likely it is to turn out to be significant in terms of subsequent real-world events.

Have you tried penetrating the surfaces yet?
Yeah, I tried but I just found myself in darkness with a vague floating sensation.  I struggled to see, but as a result opened my (physical) eyes and the experience ended.

LeCosmic - I like your quote cos I've just finished a Richard Bach Book called 'Illusions' that was really good!
RE: The spiders, if you study them very closely their real appearance is not of a spider, I think that is just the way your brain interprets it at first glance.  When studied closely, they look like spinning balls of black cotton.  Some people would call these hypnagogic hallucinations (things you see as you are at the border between being awake and asleep).  Other people such as RB call them astral wildlife perceived when awake by means of persistence of astral sight after a projection (perhaps an unconscious while you were dreaming.)

I am curious that the 'bad dreams' that preceed this have (neg) human characters in them and I sometimes wonder whether these spidery things actually were the characters in the dreams

No I don't only see them after bad dream experiences, but there seems to be a relation.  They don't bother me at all but it's the only experience
I've had of a visual hallucination I've had and it only happens in that brief interval after waking up from sleep.
I did have an experience with a spider as a kid, where I was bitten!  I don't think this is related as there is no fear or discomfort associated.
I asked the question because in his book Robert Bruce describes lower order 'astral wildlife' as having an 'insect-like' nature. Although they often follow dreams where 'negative characters' exhibit higher-order intelligence.

Yeah he did, extensively.  Only his first book really deals with it.
Time after time he claims to experience an OBE and come back with information that can subsequently be verified in the real world.
His second book was a real let-down for me, and his third book was good but more esoteric.  (I am sure he would/has disagreed:))

Hephaestus I take your point.
Rhinegirl are you still drunk? Hey you said something that really interested me in another post - you asked someone else whether they had researched the changes that King James had made to the Bible.  Would you like to expand on that?

I would just like to say that, astrally, not only might it not be him doing it, but 'an entity' purporting to be him, but if it is him, he may be entirely unaware that he is doing it.  So it would be really inappropriate for you to jump on him the next time you see him!
I had a really bizarre experience where, on waking, my brother's voice as clear as day spoke to me and said 'This is what it feels like to have someone f***ing with your head!'.  I am sure that not only was it not my brother doing it consciously, but whoever it was really thought I had been messing with them (I hadn't.)

You can read all you like about other people's experiences but it will never prove it to you.  There was another thread about 'proof' - proof is really important to some of us.  Proof is the basis of faith for many people - having experienced and confirmed psychic phenomena we are prepared to accept other people's descriptions of their own extraordinary experiences but always, I hope,  remaining healthily sceptical.
I've only had one experience where I remember getting up out of my physical body and wandering around the RTZ, but it was backed up by physiological reactions from other people (confirmed when I woke up, disturbed sleep) and also seeing a woman hanging up a curtain in my mum's house - my mum (unknown to me) had been using a flimsy stool perched on top of a footlocker to hang up curtains - really precarious! So I warned her.
If you are prepared to accept other people's 'proof' read Robert Monroe's first book - 'Journeys out of the body'.  It is by far his best book, and it was immediately after reading this that I experienced my first conscious-exit OBE!

Hi! I was also inspired by his book.  When I read it , I was really sceptical of his description of approaching the surface of an astral plane and perceiving it as a surface that has gridlines.  It just seemed counter-intuitive.  But since then I have had numerous experiences that he calls R.E.Ps (remote eye projections) often prophetic or psychic in nature, and several times have seen grid-like structures.  But I don't seem to experience consciously the 'penetration' of the grid that he describes when entering an astral plane.

quote:
Have you researched the changes that King James made to it?

Jessica

I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about that

I have read Autobiography of a Yogi -
I found it an amazing and inspirational book.  Paramahansa Yogananda was inclined towards Bhakti-yoga (weighted towards a devotional state of mind) whereas his guru Sri Yukteswar was a Jnana-yogi (his inclination was more weighted towards the intellect.)
If you can get hold of any books by Sri Yukteswar, for instance 'The Holy Science' and there is another but the name escapes me, please read them.  I remember reading his description of the sound Aum/Om/The Word
as being heard 'as a peculiar knocking sound'.  This made no sense to me when I read it, but soon after I heard it whilst meditating!
I think maybe there is more to these books than just ink on paper.