Messages

The recent studies on Kava Kava and Valerian are that they
are horrible to your liver. However, I did take a combination
of the 2 a couple years ago before the study but they
had very little effect on me. Never tried 'dream drops'
though.

Wonderboy

Hi all,

I just wanted to say I'm glad this got its own seperate topic and section. I am all for astral island and hope to get there soon.
Thusfar my projections either are very localized,...my room and out from there or some other place (maybe astral proper) but I'll have
the opportunity to refocus my efforts soon and I plan to hit it hard.
Hope to see everyone there.

Wonderboy

Really what helps is looking for consistently reoccuring people places or themes. During my hayday I found I usually dreamt one of 3 style of dreams and when I was in one I could tell instantly. Just try to get the emotional content and the basic plot, interesting things you noticed along the way etc. but read your dream journal before you go to bed, its amazing how recalling your old dreams spawns new ones.

wonderboy

I have done it. it was a double blind experiment my roommate
shuffled the card and didn't look at it but put it up on the
shelf. I OBE'd (after several months of trying to see the card)
and saw it. I called both my roommates in to verify before I
ever looked at it. Interestingly enough when a couple of us first got into AP the majority of people wanted proof. But even after the card viewing they just wanted more proof. All I can say is that I've been a lucid dreamer for years, and when you are out of body, you know it.
take care and good luck.
Wonderboy

Gorkem,

   The MOST efficient way to project from a lucid dream is to audibly state your intent and then feel it happen. I've been a lucid dreamer long before I've been an active projector and when you have that moment of acknowledgement that you're dreaming, shout it out loud "I want to project" For me, it has always resulted in a RTZ projection where I have cannonballed out of my body, but the difference between a projection and a lucid dream has always been very discernable to me. Mostly when it ends, instead of waking up, its the feeling of being slammed back into your body and not the groggy waking up sensation. (nor the lucid dreaming brain tingle that always accompanies my LD's) This has worked for me each time I'm coherent enough to declare it. As far as efficiency goes that has to win, although I have read several posts suggesting that you 'create' a gateway to the astral in your LD world and walk through it. Perhaps this works too, but I have yet to try it.

Wonderboy

Hi all,

   I believe that the quieting of one's surface thoughts are imperative to AP. When sitting down to do one's practice, muscle relaxation climbing the rope etc. etc. thinking about work the next day, that delicious sandwich you had or why AP hasn't worked in the past is your primary obstacle. Robert Bruce has a section devoted to it in Astral Dynamics where he talks about battering the mind into quietness by stopping thoughts as they occur. I believe in his example it looks similar to the following. . . (creative license applies)

Wow, what a delicious sandwich
wow, what a delici...
wow, what a ..
wow ..
...

where you stop through practice that from coming through before
it starts. Meditators, Astral Projectors, Toltecs, Dervishes, and
every alternate state trance art I have ever run across suggest it in some form or another. Although there may be some less aggressive methods of quieting the mind for example focusing on a word, such as "intent." or "relax" where one would relax the body and each time a stray thought came to the forefront repeating their word until no thoughts come is quite common. Counting breaths from 1-4 or 1-10 or so is used to filter out the stream of crap ones mind creates. Though I have had projections where I had not consciously stopped it, they ultimately came from a quick trip to and from the sleep state where the mind is relaxed and open. To project, it might not be a skill someone needs to master, but to consciously project at will, I think it is the limiting reagent.

Wonderboy

All of mine happen either at night or in the morning, usually haven't eaten within a couple hours.

Wonderboy

When you get back to your body, don't move, don't open your eyes, focus on remembering. Much like dreams the more stimulus you give yourself the quicker things of the sort seem to slip away. I personally imagine writing my story of my OBE in my dream journal then get up and write it. No matter how brief the act of doing it helps solidify your desire to remember. If you get stuck just ask yourself "what was I just doing?" . . . "and before that?" it works for me.
Good Luck and Happy Projecting
Wonderboy

Thanks Kenny,
   I haven't posted on this topic yet, but I am interested in the group efforts to meet. My roommate and I are intrigued with the idea and think it would be cool. It would be nice to have a regular astral meeting place.

Wonderboy

Hi Ginny,

> Are you saying that any posts that don't involve fully immersed >Monroe style phasing or RTZ projection aren't worth discussing...and >if so, why?

Well no, I guess it came out a little harsher than I originally intended. What I was really hoping to clarify for myself and I imagine countless other people who have run across the Moen techniques provided on this forum is how they differ than Monroe's or Bruce's or 'typical' OBE's.  (if there is such a thing)  I suppose it comes down to personal experience, while meditating recently I found myself conversing with someone and had the 'impression' I was walking through a forest. But, when I compared this altered state 'experience' or hypnagogic hallucination to my projections or countless lucid dreams I began to question what end of the spectrum it fell on. This is why I ask, you describe Om as wearing a white cotton robe and late 60's etc. etc. which made me wonder whether you were either 'there' (tmi style) or just a lot better at focusing your attention on this type of experience. My memories from my recent experience were vague at best, and the 'guy' I was talking to could only be described as a shadowy human sized biped. My most recent projection (this morning) was filled with vividness and vibrance that I woudn't want to miss out on and I would like to know if you get this now. So to answer your question, is it worth discussing? Yes, I just hope its cooler than what I experienced.

Thanks,
Wonderboy

Ginny,
    I've been quite curious regarding this Bruce Moen afterlife exploration. When you are 'there' in F27 (I'm a TMI gateway guy)
are you 'out of your body' fully immersed in the world like when
one projects into the RTZ or the astral? Or is it more of a vague
meditation like journey with conversations and the such and only fleeting images. The reason I'm confused is because everyone describes this Moen technique as the simpler method, but after 3x3x3 and the intent placing do you just sort of pop into F27? I imagine it has to be as fully immersed as a Monroe style phasing or a RTZ projection or it wouldn't even be worth discussing, but from the accounts that I've read from people it sounds less. . . tangible if you understand what I'm trying to get across.
Thanks,
Wonderboy

strwrs_guru,
   You had some interesting questions on the vibrations in this thread.

>maybe i am confused...... i thought the vibrations were a lead up to the obe

from my understanding they are a lead up to sleep and quite natural for the sleeping body state. USUALLY the mind sleeps as well and you don't notice. However, they are an indication that your body is asleep and you are obviously aware enough to notice which is the necessary state for projection.

My first couple experiences with the vibrational state were quite profound, what I would call large amplitude vibration if you remember your physics. Now however, when I get them I a) try to suppress my excitement because its easy to be anxious and knock yourself right out of the vibrations. b) relax. for me the vibrations become a pleasant hum like sensation with a small amplitude. After about 5 or so projections from this state however, as soon as i feel the onset of the vibrations in my legs (which is where it always starts for me) I focus my attention up and shoot out of my body.

Hope that helps
Wonderboy

ss_majin_gohan,
   Well you are certainly in the right place! There are many people
here who project, and many who soon will,..but I have to ask WHAT ON EARTH [or any plane] are you thinking with this post?? I don't think anyone can sum up in a paragraph what Robert Bruce diligently describes in his book "Astral Dynamics" or his "Treatise on OBE" (conveniently located on THIS SITE) with any more "EXTREME DETAIL."
Have you read either of those? If not, I would urge you to start there and ask questions as necessary. It worked for me, sadly there is no brief explanation that could even begin to cover what you would learn by reading the afore mentioned texts.
take care, and good luck.
Wonderboy

wave I monroe institute CD for achieving the focus 10 state. I couldn't agree more about projecting after working out, I'd suggest
running on a treadmill, when you get off after an hour or so it still feels like you are moving forward which has helped me project along with bike riding. The wind in your face and visualizing yourself propelling forward has also helped me in the past.
take care,
Wonderboy

Wow, what a can of worms. . . alcohol is bad and meat prohibits spiritual growth. Perhaps on some level it does interfere with your energy development, but it certainly doesn't stop an aspiring projector from projecting or someone from meditating. (unless you're currently drunk) Here's one that's worked for me. Go to the bar, get a mean buzz on with your friends, set your alarm, wake up, get a glass of water (because you'll need it! maybe an aspirin too depending on how mean that buzz was) put your wave I CD in the player and sit down in your recliner and rocket out of your body. It has certainly worked for me in the past. I'm not suggesting that its an ideal way to project, or the only way that I do project, but if you're out there and you're going to drink anyway, give it a try. Heck even if you fall asleep, there is a good chance that your REM deprivation from alcohol will give you a decent chance at lucid dreaming.
Happy Projecting
Wonderboy

Nick,
    If you haven't done so yet, I'd strongly recommend reading Frank's posts regarding tailoring your Monroe visualisation routine and not putting the headphones on and expecting to rocket to the astral. Also bear in mind that practice and devotion will win the day, I believe Frank said that he had used the focus 10 CD somewhere along the lines of 3 times per day during his practices. However, along the way you'll probably experience some spontaneous or unconscious exits to the RTZ or Astral, as that's what happened to me.
take care,
Wonderboy

Hi Folks,
    To add my two cents, I have projected from the reclined,
back, and side,.. However, it should be mentioned that the
side projections often involved rolling out of my body, almost
flopping out and spinning into the RTZ. But hey, a projection
is a projection, I'm not exactly one to be picky at this point.
[]On a side note, In one of his books carlos castaneda suggests
sitting in the butterfly stretch position (akin to indian style,
with soles of feet touching) and using a 1 foot long pole with a
headrest on it held between the feet with your head leaned forward
and resting on it as the ideal dreaming position.
Good Luck,
Wonderboy

Hi All,
   Interesting thread and one that I am at least well read on. According to the lucidity institute at Stanford, the reason
why people do not 'complete' their dreams is that the only way
to remember your dream is to wake up during it. I have heard on
average people dream 11 times per night depending on how deprived
of rem sleep you have been lately. Since you wake up prematurely
it never seems to finish. Now there is a counter argument that states
that some people remember more than one dream per night but in
reality you wake up several times in a given night without ever
being aware. However, under any of those circumstances the dream
will never be finished with full recollection. Even to help you
remember lucid dreams, Stephen LaBerge (Lucidity institute lead
researcher and author) suggests setting up cues to wake yourself
up after your dream control begins to fade. Perhaps someone WELL
trained in the art of dreaming could remember a finished dream, but
until then I'll just be taking control and waking up when I lose
power.
take care and good luck,
Wonderboy

I have successfully done the card experiment. My roommate picked
a card without looking at it, put it face up on a high shelf in
my room and it lay there for about 6 months of trying. Several OBE's
later and a whole lot of forgetting to look at the card when I got
out, I saw it. I had 1 astonished friend and my roommate verify
it. It was cool, I told several people who decided they would believe
it if 5 or 10 more tests were done, or accused me of looking or
whatever. The fact of the matter is that there are a lot cooler
things to do when you are on the astral than to provide proof to
someone who probably won't believe you anyway. If the proof is
for yourself, you should quickly find that you believe your experiences with or without a test to prove it.

take care,
Wonderboy

have you ever tried calea zacheticci or something like it, its called dream herb, unofficially. It's supposed to do the same thing, heck, might even be the same thing. I was just curious if you've had any luck with it.
thanks,
Wonderboy

Thanks Frank,
      I never really thought about it, however, there have been a couple times when I've had a song in my head, and used it to project or to have a lucid dream (which was my former intention with such things) Instead of slowing it down, or letting it drive me nuts, I would try to make the whole thing sound like an orchestra. I would try really try to hear the whole song and not just the refrain and after a few minutes it would start playing, and playing quite loudly in my head. At that point I was only a hop skip and a jump to my altered state.  Since I don't listen to music much its not really been an issue, but now I'm thinking about trying it tonight. (although, I'll have to intentionally stick a song in my head) maybe this technique could help some people, particularly musically oriented people.
Take care,
Wonderboy

You know its funny, I'm sure there are people out there that they would be much more suited for than myself. However, I do feel that they were worth the money particularly if you sleep well. Its funny, this discussion on them is making me want to put them on tonight, perhaps I will.

take care,
Wonderboy

Dani,

Fear is the mind killer. Although people may encounter negs on the higher astral planes and the such. The lucid dreaming world is probably safer than the one you are in right now. Set your clock, wake up, go back to bed and enjoy.

Take Care,
Wonderboy

I have the nova dreamer which you're referring to. I have had it for about 2 years now and every once in a while after the initial push I've tried wearing it, however, I find it difficult to sleep with, and maintain throughout the night. However, for someone who falls asleep easily I think it is a wonderful tool.
Its a bit pricy though, (I paid around $225) a couple years back, and have definetely gotten more from the monroe CD's than the novadreamer.
Take Care,
Wonderboy

After several hours of energy raising the next couple days I find that my right temple will twitch, never happened until I started doing energy raising.
take care,
Wonderboy