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Fear tests are where your experience can be challenged at the exit point by an underlying worry or fear. Eg, If you hated spiders you'd most likely encounter the feel of them crawling over you.
They are generally from within your subconcious and manifest in a way to hinder your progress.
They are the guards at the door and your fears may well be used against you.

It's to do with the physics of the NP. As thoughts can manifest you will need to have your fears canned up at the least. With nothing playing in your mind conciously or subconciously the ride is easier.
Even doubting your ability to succeed can manifest and instantly stop you although your progress is moving forwards by the interaction you'll not recognize this and feel it's useless to continue.
A positive mindset is required to make things quicker and analysis of anything negative usually results in a lesson learned on dealing with the unwanted effects of thought manifestation before you get the feel if it.

Thanks for your help. If you dont mind I have those questions :

a) Does having this "fear test" means in a way that I am improving in my Astral projection work ?
b) The example of spiders is clear. However, what does my fear test indicates ? Having that shadow person coming to stab me.
c) why doesnt our subcounscious want us to AP ??
d) what shall I do next time I have a fear test if I want to AP ?

thanks !!

You've had a mini dream mentioned earlier and a fear test above post. Not much left to do now but keep on going.
The fear tests vary and do seem real, ignore them knowing it's a test and they dissapear.
Good luck.

a "fear test" ? What is this ?

being both aware in my dream and in the waking life, does that mean that I could have AP from there ?

thanks for your help

Didnt achieve any exit so far BUT two things happened :

- I sleep on my belly, so I always to try to AP from my belly but since this is my natural sleeping position I always end up falling asleep. I tried laying on my back but this is on the contrary too uncomfortable and I can't relax. On my sides I'm not comfortable enough neither.

So seems like I'm screwed but maybe not. 2 nights ago I woke up in the early morning and didnt want to wake up so I put myself on my back but not str8 on my back. Instead, I had my head turned to one side. I found this position far more comfortable without being my natural position neither. I drift off to sleep and at one point I started to feel light vibrations coming in.

Even if this seems to be a real minor achievement, this is huge for me because : a) I never felt vibrations when drifting off to sleep (just felt them when I randomly woke up and found myself in the treshold state). And b) Feeling those vibrations on my back is a huge improvement since it means that I can AP from my back and that this position might be my door to sucess in AP.

So last night when I woke up at 2:30am I was obv on my belly (natural sleeping position, remember ?), and turned to be on my back but with my head turned to one side. Although I didnt project, I fell asleep and even had dreams. I never could fall asleep on my back and seems that I found the way to crack the code which makes me be very happy.

Now I know that I have to be in that position if I want to AP : on my belly I just fall asleep 100% of the time no matter how hard I try to remain aware, and str8 on my back I just can't relax and let go. On my back but with my head turned on one side or the other this is the perfect middle : I can relax to the point of falling asleep but still this is not a very comfortable position for me.

That was the 1st point. Now, the second one and it was weird I dont know what it was.

I dreamt that I was in a house with some people and long story short I found myself laying down at night in a bed. But while I was dreaming that I was sleeping on that bed, I also became aware of being in my "real" bed sleeping as well. Then in my dream I felt someone come into my bedroom and get closer to my bed. I knew in my dream that this mysterious person was there to kill me.

Odd thing is that while I was aware of that dream person there to kill me I started to feel in my "real" bedroom someone really approaching to my bed. I started to feel scared in both my dream and in "reality".

I kept my eyes closed, still aware to be both in my dream and kind of awake and I felt that this shadow person (I couldnt have a pic of him/her, just a shadow) was stabbing me with a knife. I felt it in my dream but I ALSO felt some real physical motion in real life, as if someone was REALLY stabbing at me !

I really freaked out even if I didnt move.

At some point I opened my eyes, a bit nervous and still sweating (lol).

What was that ??

thanks a lot for clearing things up !

from the moment I've started the rundown when can I stop if nothing happens, being sure that either I do it wrong or nothing will happen this time ? 20 minutes ? 30 minutes ? 45 minutes ?

[Xanth]

Im sorry Xanth but I disagree with your example to fall asleep to make a // with the rundowns.

To fall asleep you have indeed to do nothing, to let the void and blank mind come and let go.

But as long are you are CREATING a scene, you have to DO something. The creation process imply an action whereas going to sleep doesnt require as you say any action, you just have to let go.

Until the scene becomes independant and gets life of his own (aka when you're stepping in the scene sucessfully I presume), you have to FEED it and so this is not at all to me a passive process.

Both are totally different to me and cant be compared.

@Escape : what you say in your 1) was what I was asking. You cant phase with rundown from a waking state and use this as a meditation (like Xanth can do however) : you are successful upon awakening which means that you are already in a "transe" state (at least very deeply relaxed one). To each his own I guess.

@Rakkso : thanks for your post, I will try to apply your words.

Nope.  The Mental Rundown is what brings you into the deep trance.  It *IS* the meditation.

oh I see. So I can lay down in my bed, quickly relax and start the rundown letting the process going on. Ok.

It's like anything else.  You have to *allow* the process to happen. You allow it to capture your focus... then you allow it to suck you into the scene. You saying that "it did nothing"... The point of the Rundown is to allow it to passively take you away.

sure but visualising is a active effort which requires focus and will. I have to create the visual and maintain it, so I dont see how can I allow passively something when I have to give an active effort to build it.

kind of sounds like you were waiting for something to happen.  Actively waiting.  If you're actively doing anything, then you're going to be "waiting" a long time.  

Absolutely, I was expecting things to happen.

Yes!  Definitely tailor it to your specific situation.

Congrats at finding the blank minded state!  I think some people try for years, never reaching that and wonder why AP doesn't work for them.  Once you've experienced it you know what your after. 

Last night the multiple awakenings during the night didnt bring any positive results.

However, I had quite a vivid dream and when I woke up it was 6:30am. When I look at my DJ I see a pattern : every LD/AP or very vivid dreams occured in the 4:30am - 6:30am roughly. If I want to fine tune the proper moment it would be more between 5am and 6am but for now I'm gonna keep the scale pretty large (ie 4:30am to 6:30am).

I think that identifying the proper time where "all the magic happens" is mandatory to be successful in the OBE's journey.

So now I'm definitely going to adapt my nightly routine to put some emphasis to that particular time during the night.

More to come (and with happy results hopefully !)

I've got a question about rundowns.

Am I correct to assume that one has to do them only when being in quite a deep transe ?

Because I tried them when laying down after a quick relaxation and seriously it did nothing.

Sheriff, I keep a daily routine working on my awareness, reason why I'm quite annoyed it doesnt transfert in my night dreams.

Soarin, I sleep 6 to 7h MAX every night so after that lenght of sleep I cant fall asleep. So maybe cutting to 4h of sleep and try the Vigil method ?

Anyway, this is just a week for the alarm multi awakening method and I just cant stop it now. I have to give each method some more time before switching to another one. Otherwise I will never let one technique enough time to set up and expand naturally.

As an update, unfortunately nothing much to add for 2 nights. I kept on waking up to the sound of the multiple alarms but never found myself at the treshold and about to exit. Now I realized that I found my own voice whispering slowly "dont move, dont open your eyes" very annoying. So, I dont know how that can have an impact in the failed attempts.

However, something good happened (yiha !) :

It was 2 nights ago.
After the last failed attempt I remained laying down on my bed. I was obviously deeply relaxed since I was just waking up from sleep but since I had slept all my usual hours I wasnt asleep anymore. Just greatly relaxed, and thinking about nothing. Then, all of a sudden, I felt a shift of my cousciousness and vibrations or something odd that I couldnt describe happening. Since I was not prepared at all to this (I was doing nothing and had no purpose of projecting then), I was like "wow wtf is that ?!" and obviously this tough reaction of mine ended the experience.

I woke up for good and thought about what just happened. "So, this is it right ? The famous relaxed and blank mind state required to AP ! This is how I shall be each time I want to project, uh ?".

I tried to keep in my mind how I felt, how it was to be in such a state which was the one holding the holy keys to astral projection.

I realized that it would not be that easy to reproduce this state. Mostly, because of the blank mind thing. Because when it happened, it was all black in my mind. Really ZERO thoughts. Pure VOID. But still not sleeping. Quite a tough state of mind to reach at will !

Anyway, I tried again. A training to reach that state counsciously. If I could replicate that state then I would be assured to AP on a very regular basis.

The first time was during the same day. It was 3pm and I decided to take a nap. But contrary to the previous times, I didnt aim to sleep. I wanted to get to that same state as the previous night. Deeply relaxed and blank mind. So I just layed down and relaxed my body to the best I could. I couldnt tell it was AS relaxed as during the night but it was ok I guess. Then I focused not to let any thoughts come in and kept at it. Again, couldnt say that I reached that same state than few hours earlier but it wasnt that bad.
Unfortunately nothing happened.
Nothing happened
No, really, nothing happened
Nothin ha..... WOW what was that ? Dont know what happened but my physical body liked jumped over the bed. Like an electric shock. I guess that I started to AP without knowing it and that I got jolted back into my body.

Second time was today. I did the same thing, relax and blank mind and it lasted soooooo long with nothing at all.
Then I had a thought. The thought of a short dream I just had. For maybe a couple of minutes I clicked out and return back with the souvenir of a very short dream. I had crossed the treshold without really paying attention but without being unfocus not to be able to come back immediately from the dream.

Maybe I'm improving, maybe not. Anyway I will keep on working to reach that state, learn how to get to it, to control it, to get used to it. And then with some practice and some luck as well I hope to be able to AP from a meditative state on a regular basis, aside my nightly attempts.

It sure is. I feel like I've tried every trick in the book so far. It's easy to get discouraged, but I want this so bad that no matter how many times I fail, I can't let myself give up. I will keep trying new things and hope I stumble upon a method that works for me.

I'm with Aaron here. I tried so many things without constant results.

Of course I read Xanth saying "dont try, just do" etc etc, but these are easy words when you have crossed the frontier (I know it took him 10 years so dont get me wrong) but when you are in the heart of the battle those kinds of words are not really helpful.

AP is confusing because you hear that you have to hard work but on the other hand that you dont have to expect anything and allow things to happen, which is contradictory (in b4 "no this is not contradictory at all bla bla").

Seriously, AP is annoying. I'm struggling for 1 year and EVERY DAY I'm doing my routine in the street, shops, metro etc to become lucid at night. I also meditate. And I broke down in 1 million pieces my sleep cycles at night as well to AP. So I'm working on both LD and AP avenue NIGHT AND DAY and EVERY NIGHT and EVERY DAY with discipline, consistency and hard work.

Am I a black belt astral projector or lucid dreamer ? FAR FROM IT

I just had 2 LD in those past 4 weeks and before that my last NPR experience was maybe 6 months behind.

Last night I woke up naturally at 2:45am (gone to bed at 11:30pm), went back to bed and fell back asleep with no LD, woke up 3 times with my alarm from 4:30 to 7am but nothing happened again. The alarm just woke me up and I didnt feel any threshold state.

I will toy with the lenght between the alarm or maybe make them start sooner (at 3:30am for instance and going off every 45mns or every 60mns or 30mns I dunno).

Sorry but I had to rant and whine this morning after waking up without any AP/LD. There are some mornings like that where you're ticked and discouraged.

Of course it's possible. You can program the mind to do just about anything. It's pretty cool how mechanical our bodies actually are.

So, why people struggle that much to OBE if this is just a question of programming ?

*update*

Last night I went to bed at 11:30pm but unfortunately I was awoken by my alarm at 4:30am, which means that I was really tired since I didnt naturally wake up at 3:30am as usual.

So I woke up with the alarm and my voice "dont move, dont open your eyes", but nothing happened. Same with the subsequent alarms every 45mns. I just wasnt at the treshold and couldnt reach it neither while falling back asleep.

So, it was a very disappointing night.

I've read so many accounts from people telling how they immediately find themselves at the treshold when being awake by alarm going off that I dont understand why I dont find myself in such a state inspite 3 or 4 awakenings with my alarm.

Last night was just my 2nd attempt so I guess that I have to give it some more time, but still I thought it would provide some steady results almost immediately.

I've no trouble with hard work and discipline so I will continue until I crack the code.

Read that comment of a skilled APer which makes me wonder.

What do you think ?

"Yes, most, if not everyone, is basically living in two dimensions at the same time. We have friends, favourite locales, work places, acquantances, and adventures in the other dimension which we unfortunately do not remember very often. What you are remembering is but a fraction of what there is, but even that is more than most people remember."

I know our counsciousness is on both physical and astral planes and that OBE are in fact switching from one awareness to another.

But having a "double life"

Use this time as your initial starting point. You can't force anything so doing should be replaced by allowing. By allowing the natural course to take place you should start to feel changes rather than see them. Most people still look at these new experiences through a physical mindset. It will help to accept and remember the effects you feel. Some you'll recognise from things you've read, others that matter are your personal learnings.
Enjoy

I will keep with that schedule yeah :
- go to bed at midnight at most
- wake up naturally toward 3am, restroom, try to WILD and if fail fall asleep
- and then from 4:30am and until 7am, have my alarm going off every 45 minutes

As about the exit process, what should I have done when feeling those vibrations ? I tried the exit via suggestion (count from 1 to 3) but it didnt work. I didnt have the proper tool just to lift up with my mind, so I ended up trying to roll over but failed.

I should have waited longer ? And then what ?

Thanks a lot for your help !

30 mins is too soon. You need at least 45 mins or better 105 mins. This gives you a full dream cycle and your body should be far more receptive to external stimuli ie the alarm.
There's no point in losing out on dream cycles, you'll end up too  :-Dtired to do anything.

You were correct !

Went to bed at 11:30pm, think I fell asleep 1h later (yeah I usually take quite a bunch before falling asleep, that sucks). Woke up a first time naturally at 3:30am, went to the restroom, went back to bed, try to WILD with no success and fell asleep.
1st alarm with my voice at 4:30am, I woke up without moving/opening the eyes but nothing happened and I fell back asleep.
2nd alarm at 5:15am and at first nothing happened, I just was awake eyes closed and not moving in my bed. But then I decided that I had to give more attention not only to the awakening, but also to the moment I would fall back asleep. So I just layed there, focus, and then it happened.

I started to feel vibrations and move oddly (ofc it wasnt my physical body moving).

From there I tried to mentally imagine myself rising up since I had issues in the past when trying to roll over. Unfortunately my mind didnt know how to visualise myself rising up (hard to describe but in a nutshell I felt powerless with my mind).

So, I thought "I will count up to 3. When I reach 3 I will be projected at the top of my building. 1....2.... 3 !". Nothing happened, I was still in that vibrational stage.

So, last chance for me, I tried to roll over but was stuck with that magnetism which was a huge pain in the butt. I felt a lot of resistance and couldnt exit so I gave up and fell back asleep.

So, 3rd awakening was the good one (at 5:15am) which my be MY best time to project.

I have to work on the exit stage tho because this is too bad I was almost out and couldnt exit

This method with multiple awakenings seem powerful though, and I will stick with it for quite some times.

I'm struggling with that as well.

Set up an alarm to wake me up every 30 minutes from 4:30 to 7:15am.

I customized an alarm with my voice telling : "dont move, dont open your eyes, wake up gently".

1st attempt is a fail.

Pros : I heard the alarm and message worked since that everytime I woke up I didnt move/opened my eyes
Cons : however I found myself too awake none the less upon each awakening. I was expecting to find myself at the treshold between waking&sleeping state and that I would just have to "push the button" of astral projection but it didnt work that way. I was just wake up and each time fell back asleep.

I guess that I will have to work more on the falling back asleep stage after each awakening so that I feel when I'm reaching that treshold state to astral project.

I read everywhere on the internet that this method (used by raduga and others) is THE way to AP but I dont find it is that easy.

Thanks

Talked with a skilled projector who told me that attempting to OBE via mind programming would take a ton of time to become effective. He recommended me instead to wake up multiple times during the night and attempt to project upon each awakening.

What do you think ?

You may be too close to your body. The idea is to find a location at least 30 feet away. Being too close can terminate the experience too early and it can give unwanted side effects similar to what you find in sleep paralysis.
Being in the physical at the location gives you unlimited time to become familiar with what's there. The feel or ambience of it, how it smells ect are good to learn.

The instant programming of the subconcious is a different thing. An example is while driving you see a beautiful landscape and feel the awe of it being there. You can visualise flying across it and being a part of its wonder. The feeling of it grabbing your attention is what you recall later and having a strong intent to be there in the NP may result in you gaining awareness flying around it.

Thanks for the explanations. So in one case I cant go where I want to go and 'just' imagine being there and with daily repetition eventually I will end up one night there, and in the other case I go on the spot and feel the place with all my sense and a projection on that place should occur quicker.

Did I understand you properly ?

Another question : can I succeed with proper and sustained affirmations and visualisations to AP in the chosen spot on a very regular basis ? I mean... I wouldnt want to vizualise just to have an AP on the spot once every 100 years. My aim is to either AP at will or at least on a very regular basis. I have lots of things to do in the astral plane, hence my hard work to be able to project often. So, with both those methods, could I succeed in projecting there several days a week ?

Mmmm you are attempting to become aware before the destination.
It would be far better to become aware already at the destination surely?
The subconcious can be programmed by repetition, daily affirmations, trying to see yourself at some location. This takes around 3 weeks to do and it can be quite successful. There's another way where you can instantly program the subconcious which is effective.
This method is best done with you being at the scene in question.
You put yourself in the mindset of having already projected and visualise flying around with the tactile sensations included. Recreate the feel of being there ( requires previous experience) and be convinced you'll return shortly when projecting. You create a powerful sensation of all the senses when programming is being done with a strong intent and desire to boot. Know it'll be successful too.
The experience can follow in a day or so.
The programming itself can be done in less than a second and the more sensations you visualise the better the success.

I woke up couple of times in the past vibrating and it was very convenient. All that I had to do was to roll over. Reason why I thought about auto suggestion to wake up directly in that state.

But what you say makes even more sense and if I could 'wake up' directly in the RTZ it would be even better !

However I dont see any real difference between the two ways you're talking about. In both of them you are talking about visualizing me being at the place where I want to regain awareness in the RTZ.. So in which way your second method is different from the 1st ?

Another question : can I work on that not only by visualisation of me being projecting in that place but also being there physically and acting as if I was in a projection ?

I'm thinking about something simple : my living room. Why ? Because this is a place I know very well, I'm accustomed by the various touch feelings (of the walls, the sofa, the tiled floor etc), and moreover this place is close to my bedroom so it makes the projection and recollection of awareness easier (at least that's what I think).
So, could I :

- visualise that I'm projecting there, touching everything, engaging all my senses etc
- and also go physically in my living room and imagine that I'm astral projecting there and acting as if I was in an astral form (like being happy to have projected there, thinking about where I could go etc) ?

What do you think ?

Read someone who could do it just telling himself when he was falling asleep "I am in sleep paralysis"

Automatically he would wake up during the night vibrating

Hi,

Would it be possible to program our subcounscious when we go to be so that we are automatically awaken in the vibrational stage ?

I already experienced this but very randomly. I would be sleeping and at some point I would wake up because of the vibrations.

Unfortunately it happened maybe two or three times at most.

I wonder if we could program our subcounscious so that it wake us up directly being in that stage ?

It would be so great, we wouldnt have to struggle that much to AP, we would just have to go to sleep and wait to be awoken !

Any thoughts about this ?

Thanks