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Others go 'yay' but I go "damn, I'm trying to sleep!"

I've discovered through much annoyance, that place where you boarder on sleep, given the right conditions, it's a troublesome area.

I was lying on my back last night, kind of dozing, trying to sleep but was too hot to be comfortable and I ended up drifting for a moment only to have the sudden sensation that I was falling.  I realised what it was but also KNEW where I was in my room in relation to my original position, somewhere near the side of my bed below? the carpet where my desk usually resides.  Anyway, there I was falling and thought "oh no you don't", "no, no no", and began to think thoughts of going 'higher' so to speak.  Up, up, up, until I found myself next to my bed.  I was quite surprised it actually worked, telling myself to go 'up', cause it usually doesn't though I've never fallen and kept falling before.  Anyway, I've kind of floated, and I use that word loosly, to the top of my bed where I proceeded to try and get the attention of someone?  I recall hitting the wall and trying to force my eyes open as if in a dream.  Finally I did and had perfect recollection of the experience.  I checked my watch and found that I couldn't have dreamt yet because I hadn't been asleep long enough.

Thoughts anyone?

Andali

Welcome JurgensP, and I hope you find lots of things to help you out on this forum.  There's a wealth of information here.
Good luck!

Andali

Welcome!  Hope you enjoy yourself and learn as much as we all are!

Andali

I liked what Dragonhawk came up with, intromitting or something like that.  And I think mhat is right, there has been a bit of crosswires between the phasers and the mystics here.  Can't we all get along?

Strange -  I was watching the news last night and they were predicting violent storms for the area where I live, thunder, lightning, hail.  We haven't had rain in a while and all last night it was literally pouring down with rain and our dam's leaking into one of the paddocks.
We had strong wind warnings for the coastal areas and storm warnings for the inland areas.  Everything's fine up my end but apparently all 'hell was breaking loose' up the other end.  *sigh*.   Ya never know.

Andali

Ha, ha .  I was just thinking of the direct opposite and yes, that scenario did play over in my head.

It was just a thought I had for a while so I decided to post it, see what others thought.  No one has to change the name.

Andali

Andali27 responds: "Who are you going to believe? Me, or your lyin' eyes?"

I don't appreciate that jab.  I said before, nobody's perfect, in fact, we're all so far from perfect it's rather amusing.

What I'm saying is "there's bad apples in every religion" and the LDS church is no exception to the rule.

You can't just pick on one religion just because it's different.  That's not really fair.

Andali

Never died in a dream before.  Had some situations where I've done things that would have killed me in real life, actually, coming to mind now.  I was shot once in a dream.  With a machine gun.  What was really freaky is that it took place at my school and I could feel the holes of the bullets in my back and the blood.  To real and freaky so I woke up.
Generally, my dreams aren't freaky like that, perfectly weird and normal.  Hmm, aside from that incident, never died in a dream, or what I can recall.

Andali

no one knows or no one feels like answering?  

interesting read.  someone's done their homework.

here's another point I'd like to make, to date, the main terrorist attacks have always been by different means.  First it was airline in 9/11 and then tube trains in London.  If it happens again, it would most likely be from a different angle.  Crowded shopping complex?  Football grand final?  All security is increased in those areas that have been hit in other countries so the bombers will try somewhere else entirely.

He should be worshiped.

Err, you're not serious, are you?

Judging by how Frank feels about religion, I say he'd find that comment would 'clash' with his beliefs.

Just a general question:

I had a dream about a massive storm approaching somewhere near where I live and I'm interested to know if anyone has had any similar dreams.  Big black menacing clouds.

For example, I remember reading somewhere that before 9/11 some people dreamt of planes crashing into buildings.  I wondered if that happened for the London thing?

Also, this is purely a question of interest.  Has anyone else aside from me had a dream about storms lately?

Andali

I decided to bite the bullet and post something that happened that confused the hell out of me.

For a while, I haven't done anything within this whole AP/phasing scheme of things (though I probably should have).  I've been busy with school and have been having too many late nights.

Recently, I've been stressed out about school and work and due dates (the whole final year of secondary school thing).  I went to stay the night at a friend's house for her B'day the next day and just as we were trying to get to sleep, I had a 'stress attack' if that's what you want to call it, more closely a panic attack maybe because I felt I 'just had to leave' (NOTE: nothing before sleeping could be associated with the cause of this and I'm sure watching The Pacifier, wouldn't count).  It's never happened before.  Anyway, I SMSed my mum and got her to come and pick me up around 12:30, just after midnight.  I calmed down enough when I got home to go to sleep but had a strange dream on waking that morning.

I dreamt that I was still sleeping at my friend's house, where I had been before I left, in the same place.  I dreamt that she walked past where I was lying down.  I could see her, tried to say something but found I couldn't move and felt paralysed.  It was similar in feel to AP experiences and I was wondering if I was actually 'there' but not, at the same time, if that makes sense.

Then, I had a bunch of odd dreams and whatever and this morning, recall I was dreaming of flying up and down over my bed in the dark.  I kept going up, then down, pulling up short of the floor.  This repeated until I had a weird dream about ascending several floors in this massive building to go to this sort of 'party' thing but there was some 'person' there whom grabbed me and we jumped out the window but I wasn't afraid.  Me and another person then started throwing whatever we could find at these other two people because somehow, throwing things at them from 'this realm' would affect their stability in our reality.  Finally, they faded from sight.

I came to the conclusion a while ago that if you start (AP/phasing), and get a positive experience, then stop, things keep happening even when you're not trying.

I think that's what happened here.  I could have been dreaming, then not, but the flying thing was rather lucid and all my dreams have taken on startling realism since attempting things like phasing.

This is a long post, I know; anything anyone can say to 'lighten' me on these experiences, please post because I'm happy to hear anything.

Thanks in advance

Andali

No one else thinks this is an issue then?  Oaky doaky!

Every religion has bad apples and you can't condem a single one just because there's rubbish on the internet.  Whether true or not, everyone has a right to express their opinions and keep and open mind.

What does she look like arthropod?

It's interesting, the LDS church actually doesn't try to explain God.

You can't fix a problem until you first acnowledge there is a problem.

What problem?  The only problem I see is people ranting about stuff they read from second hand news reports.  The reporters there, only want to stir trouble and love the outcome of their idiocy.  You're being sucked into the oldest news ploy on the planet: "say something controversial that will get people riled up then sit back and watch the fireworks".

This arguement is a statement of how little half of you in the argument know.  Just because it's on the net, it doesn't make it true.  Just because it was said by a news channel, doesn't make it true.  Half the news we get these days is useless garbage anyway and everyone beleives it because its  'on TV'.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are the biggest contributors to welfare relief in the world.  The members donate their OWN money to a welfare fund all the time and they're forever giving aid to countries that need it.  They also have farms in which they grow things they can use for aid to give to other countries.

It's the boys' choice to go on missions for 2 years sometime after they turn 18 and they pay for it out of their own pockets.  They go because they want to, not because they have to.  The LDS church is all about family and caring for others.

The FLDS are indeed condemed by the mainstream Mormon church and you'll probably find that it's them (FLDS) trying to deface the Mormans by practicing their 'revised' gospel.

There is nothing wrong with the Mormon church.  If anyone is saying that, then go maybe you should visit their webpage.

There is not a nicer bunch than the Mormons, and true, bad apples do come along but there are bad apples in every religion, what about the Catholic priests molesting little boys?  Ever heard of that happening in the Mormon church?

And as far as baptising by proxy goes, no one pays for it.  The members pay ten percent of their gross income and that goes towards humanitarian aid, mission funding, temple funding etc...

People do their family history all by their selves and the Mormons don't baptise those whom the family doesn't want them to.  I laughed when someone claimed the LDS church baptised Adolf Hitler.  That's a laugh and half!  And a lie.

Family history is important to the chuch and its mostly dead reletives whom are baptised by proxy.  No one says, "yep, let's baptise...JF Kenedy, good bloke".  As if!  They need family records, permission from the family if the family is not part of their bloodline.

Half of you are getting reved up over nothing so chill out.

Even though their religion is strict, they're no more unusual then the next religion you don't understand.  And fearing and hating something that you don't understand is simply stupid.

Andali

Hi the_one.

You've got absolutly nothing to worry about.  I'm also a natural but only awoke to that after time.  After I realised what was really happening, a lot of things started to make sense.

I find that conscious projection scares me a lot more than spontaneous projections (though I haven't had any in a while, I've been too tired with school).

The reason for this is that its probably the exit that scared me but whenever it happens when I'm half asleep, an automatic drive takes over and I don't have time to thing about anything else.  I think you'll find that if you examine the experience, you were probably more freaked out afterwards than during.  The realisation is more scary than the actual experience, especially if its never happened to you before.

Here's an article in the Sticky section that should help you to douse some of your fears:


"The practice of OBE does not in itself attract the attention of negative type entities. The only thing to fear in the out-of-body environment is fear itself. Too much fear creates countless problems for a projector. If fear is a serious problem and cannot be controlled, and if it too easily grows into terror, a projector should not really be projecting. But as I've said before, a small amount of fear is healthy as it breeds caution.

It is highly unusual for projectors to encounter or to be seriously troubled by astral wildlife, especially by really strong negative spirit types. It is even more unusual for these to trouble a projector's physical/etheric body before, during or after a projection. However, there are ways to keep the negatives away and to protect the physical/etheric body during a projection, or even while just sleeping, if it becomes necessary. This may seem a little out of theme with the rest of the content of this book, but I feel I would be letting my readers down and leaving this book incomplete, if I did not offer at least some advice on what to do if things ever started going wrong."

- Robert Bruce, excerpt from Countermeasures and Wards

http://www.astralpulse.com/articles/robert/articles_43.htm

Greetings people,

I've started this post with the above quote to encapsulate something that I think a lot of people new to this site need to be made aware of - that the astral realms in general are NOT dangerous places full of negative entities!

There seems to be a growing number of doomsayers who believe it to be their sworn duty to make sure every person new to projecting has been made more than abundantly aware of all the misery and torture that awaits them in the astral at the hands of the legions of demonic entities.

With regards to normal, natural OBEs this simply is not true.

Firstly, a very important concept to remember when traveling through the astral – what you look for is what you will get. One of the few rules in the astral is "like attracts like". If you go into the astral with an attitude that there are lots of negs around that you need to be careful of, guess what you're going to find?

"Positive and negative areas coexist within all subplanes and realms, holding each other dimensionally apart through natural energetic repulsion mechanisms.

This energetic filtering effect can often be perceived, during a projection, as a subtle gradient of light, as a gradual brightening or darkening, or as a heaviness or lightness......

.....Your will can override the natural energetic filtering mechanism, allowing you to go wherever you choose. Astral projectors will always naturally project to the astral level they are in tune with energetically, but they can move on from there into positive and negative areas with which they are not naturally in tune......

.....The majority of visible astral plane directions have a reasonably positive outcome. If a positive direction is taken and held, a projector will generally move into a progressively brighter and lighter area, into higher-level areas. The reverse usually will not happen by accident, although it can be brought about by a deliberate act of exploration.

If travelers remain focused on what they are doing and have positive-oriented minds, they have very little to worry about in this respect. In practice, travelers wandering the astral planes at random will find themselves experiencing a great many varied and interesting environments. They will not come across any seriously negative areas in their travels unless they actively go looking for them. The underlying intentions and qualities of thought of astral travelers safeguard them from accidentally entering negative areas they are not in tune with energetically."

- excerpt from Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics.

Ok, so now you should see that for the untrained, going headlong into the astral is not going to lead you into a world of hurt unless you are deliberately looking for it.

So what is this world of hurt that the fearful among us speak of?

"The lower astral sublanes (traditionally the ones to be avoided) appear to be areas where negative emotion, thought, and fantasy-generated energies have been collecting for a very long time. These areas are home to negative manifestations of the darker side of the human mind and imagination. The fringes of these areas are not dangerous, but are decidedly unpleasant. The very bad lower subplanes are dark, shadowy areas populated (more aptly polluted) with all kinds of demons, monsters, and nightmarish figures. The lowest of these dark areas could aptly be called hellish dimensional areas.

If you find yourself in or near a negative area, the common-sense solution is to project away to a brighter area as soon as possible. The fastest way to move away is to strongly imagine somewhere nicer and use instant projection to shift there. Holding an image of the entrance structure firmly in mind and instantly projecting there will usually return you to the surface, without your getting lost or aborting the projection. If this does not work, fly straight up while using uplifting spiritual thoughts, prayer, or song to elevate consciousness. Fly toward the brightest area or spark of light that can be seen above or ahead. An upward direction will usually take a projector away from a negative area.

Astral travelers need not pass through negative or lower astral subplanes to travel to more positive and higher astral levels. The negative areas in the astral planes are, in a way, energetically sideways to the normal planelike dimensional structure. It is quite difficult to project deliberately into a seriously bad lower subplane area-or to project into a seriously higher level or plane, for the very same reason. Energetic differences and the natural attraction and repulsion effects generally prohibit this from occurring accidentally. Every projector will have his or her own energetic limitations.

The only cases I have come across where projectors have had seriously bad experiences with lower subplanes involved hallucinogenic drugs being used to precipitate out-of-body experiences. Drugs, while capable of causing out-of-body experiences, sidestep the required skills and abilities necessary for safe conscious-exit projection. This breaks many natural laws concerning projection while artificially overcoming many natural safeguards and barriers. Natural barriers are there to protect the novice from operating in dimensional areas they are not equipped to experience."

- excerpt from Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics.

Without getting into the whole drug debate, the average astral traveler is going to find it pretty hard to get into trouble with negative entities through your average OBE.

One other important thing to remember here, if you do get stuck in an astral area that you can't handle, don't panic, just bail out! You don't have to stay, and events in the astral can't hurt you in the physical. Treat it like a bad dream. It really is that simple.

I know I've only drawn on Robert Bruce's investigations here to provide what I hope to be a more objective view for newcomers. This is not because I idolize him or follow him around like some messiah, but because he deliberately set out to demystify astral travel and put it into terms we can all make sense of. In books on metaphysical subjects, a straight talking no nonsense author is a rare gem! I also know Mr. Bruce is but one of many noted explorers in this field, but I don't have the documentation from other such explorers such as Robert Munroe or Bruce Moen to call on. Bruce Moen has posted on this site however, so a search for topics under his name should reveal some useful material.

I would invite any of our resident frequent flyers to add their information here as support for those who might possibly have fears in discovering that which is beyond our physical world.

Bottom line - relax, enjoy the ride, and let the experience be an enjoyable enriching one.



Good luck!

Andali

Uh... Okay.  Well.

So opinions are rather varied and my original thread is now way off topic.

So, still on the revised topic.  I happen to have the upmost respect for Frank.  Everyone is entitled to their own views and opinions and no one really is expected to accept them but should at least be courteous and keep their own scathing remarks to themselves and think about how others might feel.

Frank's theories are pioneering in a field no one has paid much attetion to until recently and hopefully, one day, there'll be a greater acceptance, until then, we potter away in our own little ways, trying to make a difference.

I can marry Frank's ideas with my own religious beliefs in a way I can't really explain yet but the two work together and therefore, I am able to accept his ideas with open arms.

If anyone can't, that's your problem and we shouldn't have to hear about it.  It really isn't nice.  So please, back on topic now.

Andali

I decided to post this in regards to something Frank said in his newsletter, that he can't seem to understand the definition of mediation.  The truth is, the definition has become confused over time.  There are several definitons of the one words depending on your culture.
On one end of the scale, meditiation is simply thought on a single subject, and at the other end of the scale medition is deep silence of the mind, leading to OBEs etc.  Basically, it's the silencing of the mind to concerntrate on one thought and that thought alone to gain insight.  If you're a star wars fanatic, 'search the force'.
I look at it as 'deep thought on a single subject'.  Mentally sorting out a problem in your mind.
The mystic definition of meditation doesn't work for me.

Don't take what I've said as solid truth, these are just my thoughts.  Any comments welcome.

Andali

Hello!  I'm back!  Too much school work is keeping me from doing anything I want to do and I keep on running out of Internet credit at school.  Sooooo, VCE should be condemed.  Onto the topic of the post.

From what I've been reading recently, it seems when we're talking about AP in a foC way, then saying 'projection' would be rather inaccurate.  To project is to go 'outwards' but we seem to be going inwards so rather, you'd call it astral injection but that word's a bit iffie as well as it sounds like you're shooting up on the Astral.  Weird.

Anyhow, what would you call it if not projection?  There has to be some funky latin word we can pull from somewhere to better describe the process.

On another topic, I have been seriously slacking off lately in regards to foC.  I've been meaning to revise my f2oC rundown but I've almost forgotten the basics.  Can anyone refresh my memory in regards to the difference between Franks f3oC and Monroe's, if there is a difference, and what to do to achieve an f2oC state (aside from the rundown, before that).

Any comments greatly appreciated!

Andali

u got the link wrong neo:

http://www.1-2-free-forums.com/mf/?mforum=kiela

You're sending people to a dead end, eeep!   Update the link!


Andali

P.S. hiya all!

dude, i have to get a credit card if i ever wanna get this book.  There's no way on earth (or any other realm/focus level, whatever) that anyone I know is gonna let me get it (though I'm 18 on Friday so then we'll see who has more control)

Andali

P.S. I've only have mild phasing experience, mostly in FZ.  And then everything else is just spontaneous projections.  I think its odd though, putting F4 into words, though I've gotten to that stage (or even close), I find that everything else is hard to explain.  You'd have to invent another language to cope with these new experiences, there's an idea!

Yes.  I've been lazy and the main reason for that is because school is stressing me out.  I hate the education system, dumping everything on you last minuet and then telling you its due in two weeks.

That's mainly the reason I haven't even being doing relaxation.

I'm not totally void of doing anything, but as per usual, spontaneous RTZs still greet me with open arms (so to speak).  Saturday morning, still haven't left my room but that's a work in progress.

Anyway, the reason I'm posting this is in regards to F2oC.  I haven't really sat/lay down and full out tried but I haven't done anything at all lately really.  I have problems concentrating on my rundown, because its so simple and I get bored with it and end up giving up and going to sleep.

My rundown is basically me(trying 1st person) sitting beside a stream in this nice forest garden thing I created mentally a while ago, and I'm threading a daisy chain.  I can't keep thinking about the smells, the feel of the daisy stalks, what I hear.  I get confused and then other thoughts creep in that are more interesting.

I like the rundown, it's better than peeling potatoes, as even in reality, I hate peeling potatoes.  First time I tried the potato peeling, just because I had nothing else.  I ended up wandering around (mentally, imagination here), up onto the deck of this pirate ship were I tried to recall a song I was working on and ended up fooling around and dancing (this was all taking place in my imagination, dancing and whatnot, I was directing the sequence of events).

The only thing I've noticed so far is that when thinking about, or doing my rundown or any other thing using imagination, after a while, I'm able to more easily imagine what I'm seeing.  It becomes clearer but by coming clearer, I start to think about other things when that happens.

Basically, I want to know what I'm doing wrong, or, if sticking it out is the best course of action.  No matter how bored I get, keeping doing the rundown.  The boredom is my main problem.  I know, how can you be bored!  You're trying to get to F2oC!!!!  It's the repetition, that's all.

Aside from that.  Even if anyone shares they're experiences here, I can maybe work something out.  Any advice, ideas, anything?  If I'm doing anything wrong, or leaving something out, tell me!  I want to do this!

Andali