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The key is- as you work to understand your personal method for achieving an exit, these are the qualities to notice and interpret. If you get kinesthetic sensations, go with it; if you are getting visuals, then go with that.

In your case, lostsole, you are getting visual snippets, which points toward Dream/Astral experiences. So, to me you sound like a guy piloting a plane down the runway about to take to the sky, and wondering why it doesn't drive like a car... 

I liked all of your post, thank you! The last bit I'm sure is accurate. The story of my life has been a slow learner, often going in wrong directions, "wrong controls" but that once I do learn, I usually excel at the task. I'm also a person who likes to build a skyscraper when only a small house was needed, also known as a number 11 in numerology. In other words, I over do and over think what should be simple in scope.

Anyway, thank you for those explanations. It can get very confusing even though I've studied these concepts for decades now from numerous differing spiritual sources, listened to countless channelings, on and on. It's still a big mess in my mind how the other side may work. And, I know people here are trying to figure it out also, but getting down to basics is helpful.

I have been enjoying what Darius has to say about the "other side." He's got some interesting viewpoints. Of course I never take anyone's perspective as gospel 100% for myself, as that is their experience as Tom Campbell would say.

So yes, I'll work on those other items from earlier and also for now, do more observing, and go with what best presents itself as an opportunity, visual or otherwise vs try to force my perspective of it.

I have been dispassionate and unemotional about things in that state, as I learned that lesson in the past losing out on my big moment. I think what you said earlier is key for me, getting relaxed and what LB suggested also.

I believe another part of the problem is I programmed myself from reading so many NDEs that any OBE I have should be similar to the OBE of those types of experiences, and sounds like it can be, but not necessarily, per what you said about Robert, etc.

I need to keep reading the phasing thread link also that was offered up in my other thread.

And, what I've noticed so far, is most of all, I need to have my head in the game, thinking about it off and on throughout the day, studying, reading, affirmations, and making it my full on intention. Just that alone got me some vibrations going that I've not had from sheer will in twenty years! : )

You may be relaxed enough to experience vibrations, but that is no guarantee.

Yeah, sure isn't. I have been doing a little stretching, holding my limbs tight for a bit and then relax, or my face and jaw, etc., prior to mediation. I keep my mouth fully ajar. But... I am always too hyper aware of my physical body much of the time. And, my neck is always tight while my calves are usually uncomfortable. Anyway...

On affirmations, I think I've been doing a good job on that of late. I've been telling myself it happens now, that it's easy, I have the ability naturally, on and on, vs that it's a struggle, I'll never succeed, I don't have the gift, etc., that I sometimes would tell myself in the past.

So, in addition with LB's suggestions, it sounds like I need to do more of the WBTB, etc., to improve my odds. And, some energy work. I think I've done that, if we are talking about the same thing, but not so much in the present.

Thanks for your time in commenting! 

I simply start imagining that my bed is swaying from side to side.

Back during the turn of the century meditations, I would actually feel swaying, or rocking, sometimes quite strongly. So, you are imagining it up front. I've been trying to imagine energy and vibrations, so I'll try some movement ideas, and the other items you mentioned also, thank you!

When I know that my physical body is awake and I am just in deep meditation, the differentiation is difficult, at least for me. I do try in occasions to project from that deep state of meditation even when I feel mild buzzing, but I never succeed. My senses are still perceiving the physicals on some level and that prevents me from fully dethatching.

Yep, that's me!

So when you succeed, what you describe then sounds like your body is in a state of sleep paralysis, like what my wife goes through, and at that stage it's a "moo point" to quote Joey from the Friends series.

I've not to my memory had a full on experience of sleep paralysis, and were I to, then I can likely project or move "astral limbs", etc., from that frozen body state, which will be most likely to occur within broken sleep, or maybe early AM waking. 

I do admit to a bit of jealousy that people like Darius and others I've encountered can just pop out willy nilly if they feel like it.

I'll keep on practicing. Thank you for your time in answering me!

Thanks LightBeam,

Your teen years sound a bit like what I'm dealing with. Funny thing is, I did read one of Bulhman's books a long time ago, but I don't recall any of it now. I'm only barely getting back into this after an almost twenty year absence.

Like you said, I think it may take me being asleep in my personal case, and it's when waking from sleep that I have had the most powerful energies, sounds or whatever, so I hear you there. I probably just need to keep at it as you suggest for weeks, really set my intentions every day and so on.

I was genuinely surprised to feel the vibrations the other night even just during a basic meditation. It gave me hope.

All that said, I've still read numerous OBE experiences (and a handful of books) and some do speak of moving your arms or legs at the right time, or opening your astral eyes, or whatever, then popping right out of one's head, etc., so that question still stands, for those who go OBE in that manner.

How do you differentiate that you are now ready to move an astral limb/open eyes, or whatever and can tell that you are at that phase, and not just moving a physical limb, or rolling your physical body, etc.? Even if I personally never exit that way, I'm still curious how you know?

Hi tides2dust,

First, love the unique user name.

Next, thank you for responding. : )

So, Tom Campbell speaks about being out of body as more of a shifting perspective or attention. That, to me, would be along the lines of what you are talking about, maybe? Honestly, Tom kind of lost me at times.

Now, I've had many meditations where staring at the black behind my eyes, I get some pretty realistic seeming visuals. I told the story in my first thread here, that the other day deep in a meditation with realistic visuals, I had a man step in front of me while I was having one of these vistas. He shoved my face out, as if my face was through the barrier of a portal. It felt quite real to me, the barrier peeling off my face, etc. He clearly didn't want me there.

Anyway, so I've also read thousands of near death experiences, and in the NDE's, what they seem to experience is more of a genuine, physical separation from the body, seeing the docs work on them, family members in the waiting area, and so on. They pop right out, and they can pop right back in, or get slammed back in, in some cases. Some say it feels like the vastness of their soul is crammed back into a tiny little body, and it sucks.

My wife has experienced this popping out, floating above her body as a child and watching her siblings play in the living area.

In other words, in those instances above, it seems to me a genuine OBE is a kind of detachment from the physical body. And, in reading some OBE books, they describe it as such.

I've been listening to Darius J Wright and he as well seems to be saying, that mediation level OBE's/LD's, is more of a personal dimensional space, but that it is possible to have a more physical NDE like experience beyond that.

I was just watching this video.

Side note: He also talks about the soul traps stuff I was speaking on in my first thread as an fyi for anyone who was reading that.

Anyway, so yes, I get your points, but I still feel like there should be more to it then the "vapory" meditation type visuals. Darius says when you are truly there, it is MORE physical of a feeling than real life, which is what the NDE'ers generally say also.

So, I don't know. That's my thoughts for the moment.

In another thread, I briefly mentioned around the turn of the century, I had a very powerful series of vibrations while listening to Hemi Sync Immersion. I won't repeat the whole thing, but the point is, then, and one other time back then, when any vibrations occurred, I could not exit the body, or physical perspective, however you want to put it.

So, as of recently, I've been making concerted efforts again to go OBE. (without bianural sound this time because it enrages my tinnitus.)

Last night, I was able to start some vibes up of what I would say were average vibrations (not like the powerful ones I mentioned above.)

During these energy moments, I tried to envision myself elsewhere, the theater room, then a favorite beach. I tried the rope method, etc. Nothing. I just lay there buzzing.

I think my point is, in every case of building to OBE, I'm afraid to try and move any part of my body to test anything, like astral limbs, because then I will lose the vibrations IF what I move is my physical limbs, etc.

My question then is, how do you experienced guys reconcile the difference between physical and non physical such that you know you can move, "roll out" or open your "astral eyes" or whatever, without destroying the meditative state the physical body is in, if you are wrong about what is what? Does that makes sense?

I can't seem to differentiate it and it's frustrating.

Thanks for any thoughts on this. I imagine the answers are here on the forum somewhere, but I don't know what the specific terms would be to search exactly what I'm asking.

Thanks for any advice or links to this info!

Thanks Xanth. I appreciate it. : )

Where I truly want to go with those topics will I'm certain not be welcome by some, as it gets too deep, weird, uncomfortable and mind bending. I've been playing it light with what I say.

For me, for now, I'll let it go unless something comes up I feel I can respond to that isn't too out there. There have been some excellent responses though.

However, for the moment, let me bring this thread back on topic.

As of last night I finally had a very brief, but new odd experience to report. Perhaps because I've been focusing more so on all of this.

In my meditation prior to sleep, various scenes started to materialize, and quite clearly to the point I felt I was looking at an astral plane, not a dreamscape plane. For me, there seems to be a tangible difference in the few times I've had that experience, like the LD I mentioned earlier in the thread. It truly seemed like a real place.

Anyway, as the most solid "reality" of all came into view, out of nowhere, a man stepped right in front of my view, he zoomed his face right up to mine, and I think he said "nope" and shoved me out, and I felt that shove, like having your face through a physical portal barrier or film, and that film peels/rips off your face as you get pushed backward. Obviously the feeling was, that dude did NOT want me there! I've never experienced anything like that before, to my memory.

Then, in the same night, I had an almost having sex dream, (which those are very rare for me) with ghost hunting as well going in the same house, and with ghosts present, and it all felt hyper real.

Then, I awoke from that dream, buzzing all over. (Not normal for me). I intended OBE of course in this state and in fact, I had a moment where I could not tell if I was awake in the dream or awake on my bed. But as the seconds marched on, I was on my bed buzzing. However, I had some of my appendages crossed and twisted up in such a way I was in some pain and could not focus and relax, or I might have succeeded.

What an odd night!

Thanks you all for some truly deep and profound thoughts on these topics with these recent posts. I had to read them more than once.

in other news, I didn't really mean for this particular thread to get off so much into the woods from its OBE energy proof origins. I will stop propagating it further. But, I will be sending a PM or two regarding recent posts I would like to comment on. Read the PMs if you have the interest to do so, or ignore if you don't.

That said, there does seem to be in my experience, a growing interest across the internet in the topics I've mentioned, Matrix, traps, loosh, etc., and imo, it might be good to have a sticky (if there's not one already somewhere I've not seen?) about those topics, where views can be debated in a friendly manner, as has happened here, or supporting, or non supporting links, or genuine experiences both for or against, can be posted.

Just an idea.

I'll toss in one more thing. I did enjoy your follow up post.

You said, "It leaves us in a place of wonder. Of evolution and ability to grow change. This is what is most important."

I agree with that line 1000% (yeah, I know that's funky math.)

Regardless, that which you said is the reality I want to have, create, whatever. It is the reality I believed in for many years before being exposed to other information, which may or may not have merit.

My entire beef with the potentials of all of these realities, multi-dimensional bubbles within bubbles, is simply, are we truly "free" to do as you said above, or are we in some way, not free? Possibly in ways we cannot comprehend in our avatar suits, our earthly meditations, or maybe even in the beyond. Free will vs non free will is the core of my concern. But, like I say, who knows? It was the main gist of the novels I wrote years ago. Guess it's been bugging me for a while. Lol.

Your perspectives remind me a little of Tom Campbells, which I feel are reasonable. He is quite the positive person, which is nice in a rather negative world.

Thank you for your time and sharing your thoughts!

"To discover at no time are we ever truly bound. ( not in the play world, not in the real world )"


I hope you are right. : )

Hi Omcasey,

Thank you so much for your profound message. I understood well what you are saying, in my own interpretation. I mentioned earlier in this thread that other sources I have followed over the years have said similar to what you pointed out, but in varying ways.

I actually wrote a much longer response to your message but I decided it probably isn't appropriate for some, and this topic I brought up is derailing my thread from its point anyway.

If you would like the response in a PM, please let me know and thank you again for your time in writing up your thoughts! : )

[or]

As indicated earlier in the thread, my primary interest in personal OBEs, is to validate myself in some way, whether we are here by choice, or locked in a matrix of one sort or another, with no choice.

As I discussed, there's a good bit of evidence for the latter. If the latter is true, then I want to find a way out.

So, by chance, just today, I found these guy's site below, of which they claim to be doing exactly what I was talking about, by going to the other side in various ways.

Again, I barely found the site, so I can't vouch whatsoever for the validity of them or their info, but I will be exploring it.

For other interested parties, here it is. https://matrixxer.com/home-en/

And here is their English version YT channel. https://www.youtube.com/@Matrixxer-Global

Yes, I have heard of Scenar in passing. My torsion field study was fascinating (albeit over my head at times) and sounds like the subject is making ground in "pseudo science land." I'm glad to hear that.

Besides minerals, I have all manner of other torsion based gadgets around the house to help with EMF protection and health in general.

I also practicing nightly earthing which changed my life. Prior to earthing every night, I had terrible hypoglycemia, as in having to eat every two hours or else. Six months of earthing, and that is all gone, along with other improvements. It also helped my EoE throat issue. Not the tinnitus though! Lol.

A while back I studied pyramid energy for a short time and have been considering getting a large pyramid type shape to keep over my desk chair while I do my creative work. It's interesting all the items you said you have. I had a harder time believing in this sort of energy until I got the life meter. Now I know it's there.

Thanks for the Vehram link. I've already started reading that thread and will continue.

It's cool you only sell in person. I totally get that. Imo, the folly of our modern age is that we no longer sell, or do much of anything in person, way too often. Sad really.

In the days to come, I'll look in to all the things you are doing for NPR exploration. Thanks again for your most excellent information! : )

True. But, if you go in there looking for negative things. Negative things you will find!

 There are groups of gamers that call themselves the "Demon hunters". They all go into the NPRs to battle Demons. They have created an environment that seems to feed off of their group focus. They are very successful with it too. The video games they play in a way have actually become their NPR reality.

 I know how those games can really get in your head. I used to play Tetris quite a bit, until one day I started getting the "Tetrisis" and had to stop. It was during me crazy, lol. The "Tetrisis" is when you close your eyes to go to sleep and automatically find yourself playing the game over and over and over again. At times, it feels like you have no power over in to stop.

 Once in a while in my shows I came across the "Dream Walkers". These are people that are almost always Lucid in their Dreams. It was cool though because it seemed to get passed down to the kids too. I remember one show I was doing, a Mother and Daughter were telling me how they actually share their Dreams together on a regular basis. They then talk about the experience the next day.

 I am a merchant at various Renaissance Faries, State fair, Craft shows, Mind Body and Spirit show, etc. So, I come across many like-minded good-natured people. It is amazing how total strangers seem to open up to me. I am creating and selling Elemental Dragons, Crystal Amplfiers/Crystal Beings and various other unique things though. So that shows them that I am "open minded" as well!

Everything you said about NPR exploring folks was quite fascinating, and new to me. I rarely hear anything new these days.

I liked your on topic spelling snafu, You flubbed the word but kept it in the genre. Lol. "Renasissance Faries"

On the negative things you will find comment, isn't that the same as what the guy was implying, I mean, if you are creating negative or looking for negative, then you would get it either way.

Regardless, thanks for your most interesting comment! I'll be looking up more about those topics. : )

As to crystals, etc., I'm no pro in that area, but for the purpose of EMF radiation protection, I have quite a bit of type 2 and 4 shungite around the house, black tourmaline, selenite, smokey quartz crystal skulls, and other minor amounts of other minerals.

A few years back, I met a guy over seas that had a pricey specialized meter that measured torsion fields, and he showed me how torsion fields emitted from a wireless router affected the meter, and then what happened when you put different minerals, like shungite by the router. It changed the spin of the torsion field, to a supposed "healthier" spin direction. Pretty cool at the time.

I also bought a meter called the "Experimental Life Energy Meter". It measures orgone energy I believe. I did a ton of experiments with it, and it does work, quite well. One of those experiments, was I bought a wide array of powdered minerals (cyrstals, etc.) all the exact same weight of powders, and then measured the life energy coming off of each. Most of them emitted very little energy, but a few of them pegged the meter, like quartz, shungite and some others I don't remember.

Anyway, I have interest in the sort of things you sell. Do you have a site where I can see your products?

As for me, sometimes people open up to me like that, which can be quite strange when it occurs. Mostly though, I think my energy intimidates people, which I don't mean to cause. I'm just an intense person in every way. Lol. 

Cool, got it, thanks!

This ties into what we are discussing from another highly experienced OBE pro. From what I understand he's saying, we create all of our experiences on the other side, good or bad.

More to chew on... 

Start at around the 8:40 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSyvHMmbrSE

In regards to the Loosh thing...

Most people just assume that since Robert Monroe never mentioned it ever again after his second book that he figured out the truth of the concept and that it was based off his own fears or something like that.

You'd think that something as big as humanity being "farmed" of something like this would have elicited even a small mention in his third and final book. 

I remember reading in that book that he made some discoveries about the nature of the non-physical and one of them being that it's a subjective experience of an objective nature.  Which means that what you experience really happened, but how it's shown to you or how it plays out is subjective.

I'll need to re-read that book.  Maybe that should be my next read. 

When reading these sorts of theories and evidence from numerous sources combined with ideas like your third comment, a person can really get their mind twisted up in trying to comprehend what may or may not be going on. I don't know if you have encountered Wayne Bush's evidence utilizing in part, numerous comments from NDE's, but there's certainly enough of it to raise some red flags beyond Robert or Tom's take on it.

After my decades long NDE study, I became an NDE true believer for a long while. My new religion for a time. Lol. I was totally in the love/light, everything is wonderful after we die camp.

Thus, the new course of study was an incredibly difficult and admittedly depressing journey to go down, that the NDE "may" have a different purpose and reality behind it. (trap/loosh/Matrix, etc.) There was enough evidence after a few years of that new NDE may be a trick, that I had to set NDEs on the shelf and look at them with a new perspective, while keeping an open mind to I don't know for certain either way. It really was a mind melt for me.

It is also possible that Tom, Robert, or anyone else in the know, may realize some of this "scary" stuff does have some degree of merit but they don't want to frighten people with it, or turn them off of exploring OBE, etc. This could be because humans, where fear is concerned, tend to think in black and white, all good, all bad. The other side may have loosh/trap/Matrix going on simultaneously with a ton of good stuff also in other areas or levels of existence. Maybe loosh/trap/Matrix is only for certain souls who wanted that experience? Who knows? There could be a million shades of grey, and perhaps Tom and Robert know this?

In my own life, I have knowledge of things going on on this planet that would scare everyone I know and depress the hell out of them. So, I don't tell them about that knowledge as what would be the point? They are not ready for it, nor would they even believe it. I let them live their lives, I live mine. Anyway, so with Tom or Robert, it could be a degree of that sort of protecting others from knowledge they are not ready for. Again, I don't know? It's all speculation. Regardless, I'm keeping my own mind open to potentials, but leaning positive as much as possible. 

Well, I've said enough on the matter for now. At times I wish things could be simple and "heavenly," but then if they were, they would be boring at the same time. So, if nothing else, the journey, no matter where it leads, is fascinating and certainly challenging! : )

Thank you for your comments!

Much more to say, good comments in general. No accidents or drowning required, lol!

I have the tinnitus issue as well. Some say it is incoming data stream...idk, bothersome. You might try focusing on it for a few sessions...it hasn't worked for me!

Loosh...funny thing, no one has ever mentioned it in five weeks at TMI. I think it was one of several 'off-target' concepts Robert had...he was good, but not perfect. The Matrix thing...it may work at a smaller, subtle level, I just don't know...there are all kinds of parasitic systems operating around us, including us...so, yeah, I do get caught up in the hierarchical, farming principal...

If we are Consciousness, floating around the Multiverse, choosing at various times to inhabit local planetary populations...who is to argue against other Life systems choosing to harvest the same biological entities we happen to be inhabiting?

Who has rights here? Any contracts been drawn up? Frightening...damn...lol.

I'm very sorry to hear you have the T word also. Really sucks, even if it is a data stream. Mine's around 5000 hz and is screaming all the time lately. Nothing I've tried over fifteen years has dented it beyond a temporary reduction.

An alternate leaning medical acquaintance of mine claims that growing tinnitus in the population is due to physical brain damage from all the new massive levels of microwave energy we are all being exposed to from many sources. Good a theory as any I suppose.

You mentioned TMI/five weeks. Do you work there? Just curious. I know Tom was adamant that loosh was nonsense in response to Robert's experience, but there's sure a lot of indicators that the Matrix, loosh, etc., type of concerns are not nonsense, like are shown on Wayne Bush's tricked by the light website and other sources.

It's really a conundrum. On the one hand, you have those who say everything is love and light, and if there is any negative, it's just you creating it. Or, that just by considering the ideas of loosh/trap/Matrix, you are falling to fear and lowering your frequency, etc. I'm not so sure I agree with that. Prudence and intelligent caution are perfectly rational thoughts and actions to have on a planet of many hostilities, and they do not translate to being a fear based person.

Anyway, so, as mentioned, there are also good indicators that the loosh/trap/Matrix ideas are real.

Thus, if the parasitical type theories were true, then it would stand to reason, that those controlling parasite types of entities or even supporting humans/aliens, etc., on Earth, would play down the theories about them, to keep them in power and taking what they want. As in, they would create a narrative for humans saying everything is wonderful, peace, love, rainbows and kittens. Don't rise up, don't question, just go into the loving light when you die. (Heh heh heh, they cackle behind the Wizard's curtain, while holding their reincarnation mind wiping gun at the ready.) Lol.

In real life, there are heaps of bad or parasitical type people in power doing very rotten things all the time. So, it would make sense that the other side could have plenty of it as well. I got duped by my own religion for thirty five years. I escaped that belief bubble. I don't intend to get duped by any other belief system to my own detriment again. Thus, I keep all sides of various "other side" arguments open at all times.

There are some sources that say that both arguments above are true at the same time. In other words, the loosh/trap/Matrix ARE true per their claims, but that we as souls know this and opt to come into the situation anyway, to find our way out of it, collectively. Therefore, per them, at the highest levels of reality/frequency, we are free and everything is fine and on the up and up. We chose this, all of it, per them.

I suppose the above collection of ideas are my main reason for wanting to get out there/go OBE. I'd like my own experiences of what is going on, be it good, bad, or lukewarm, that is, if that level of sleuthing on the other side can be obtained by an OBE laymen.

Well, enough of that. Thank you so much for your feedback, you and the others. 

Thank you Escape Velocity for all of your great comments and support! Your handle is also on target for the site!

Back before much of these ideas were as common place as they are today, around the turn of the century, I got into reading NDEs. I've read thousands of them. The study really motivated me over the years to achieve an OBE. I suppose I was a bit jealous of the NDE experiences, but didn't particularly want to get in a car accident or drown. Lol.

Anyway, the NDE study lead to researching about every paranormal concept out there, like others here I'm sure. My brain is overflowing with information I've read, watched or heard. However, what I don't have, is enough of my own direct experiences, such as, OBE, channeling, ghosts, or whatever. I would love to get more direct observational experiences, in the name of science! Lol.

I had such great experiences a few times with Hemi-Sync, but damn this tinnitus. Binaural sound for whatever reason makes it screaming loud, so I just have to stop with the binaural. Nevertheless, I'm going to persist and get back into this pursuit without it. I need to will have the self confidence I can do it without tools.

On the SP, I have never had it like my wife seems to. Maybe it's her fear, but the more "paralyzed" I feel, the more excited I feel I'm nearing the goal.

I had heard of the Night Hag in brief. That is one I'll have to read up on to learn more. Never heard of the witch riding your back. That's new to me.

Thanks for the points about Chakras. The sensation in the third eye area back in the day, was literally like something was crawling under my skin right there, and at times it was not subtle. But, I didn't fear it, I went with it. As I said above though, I never seem to get that sensation anymore. Maybe the snake got out? Lol.

Anyway, yes, I understand there is a fine balance between excitement and intellect, and shutting down all analysis of that pre-stage of OBE. I will find my middle ground.

As an FYI, folks I've studied on this include Robert Monroe of course. Tom Campbell, William Buhlman, Bob Peterson, and read countless personal experiences. Time to have my own! I'm also trying out listening to Jurgen Ziewe.


Question. What's the general consensus on this forum for the idea of entities harvesting loosh/reincarnation trap, or "The Matrix" sort of concepts? Have any folks here witnessed anything to do with any of that?

I have to apologize to you. Even though I quoted your words, my comments were not directed only to you. If you have questions or concerns on a Forum, especially of this nature, chances are that other people have the same questions and concerns too.

 Here is a great place to start with that:
https://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome-to-the-astral-faq!/what-is-phasing-and-how-can-i-do-it/

Absolutely no need to apologize. I get it. I come from a family of teachers and know the practicality of reaching all you can. Thank you for the link, I will start there!

Yes, I agree with all of that. And, again, normally I know better. I do not know the phasing term, but saw it elsewhere on the forum. I'll try to read more about the concept.

Lol, yeah, good ol'e Yoda. I know better than to use the word try. Consider it a slip of the fingers on the keyboard.

Thanks Lumaza for sharing the cookie story. Glad it helped the girl, and I agree, turn it around, negative to positive. : )

Also, thank you to Xanth for your thoughts on fears, love and curiosity.

When Lumaza said this, "LDs and nightmares" I at first thought you were going to talk about Mormons and nightmares. Lol. I live in Mormon country.

Maybe I can stir up the old desire to try again. I'll keep reading here. : )

Chocolate chip cookies! Well, then he and I have something in common. : )

I read a good bit about the Hat man a couple of years back, and both my wife and I were very surprised that so many years later he was such a common experience. I actually read an experience where he was kind to someone. I don't recall what he did that was nice, but the person who was terrified at first, soon realized he was there for support. So, is he benevolent or malevolent? Even malevolent beings could like chocolate chip cookies! Lol.

The sad part is, seems like over the last decade our experiences have dwindled to nothing. I don't have any of the cool stuff I used to get in meditations, rocking, or feeling like a snake is trying to burst out of my third eye area, no hypnagogic type imagery, on and on. Now days, I just get numb hands. My wife's had nothing to report either. Maybe it's just a quality or lack thereof, of getting old. : ( Would love to use Hemi-Sync some more, but it makes my tinnitus extremely bad. So, I just read about others experiences now days. 

Thanks Lumaza for your comment!

Here's my other stories, which are fairly short.

Another brief story on the part of my reluctant, supernatural oriented wife, was a few years before the vibrating bed incident, she had another state of sleep paralysis while we were both in bed. (She woke me up to tell me this after the fact.) In the open doorway of the bedroom, she saw what is known now days as the Hat man. I'm sure most of you have heard of the phenomenon, but this was back in the 90's and we'd never heard of it. Anyway, the man was in silhouette, clear as could be in the doorway, with the hat, and a cloak. She said she just stared at him for a while and then he vanished. Terrified her of course. She didn't see the red eyes some claim to see. I imagine she might have been a bit out of body, or at least watching him with her astral eyes, since she was sleep paralyzed. But, she never made the claim to being fully OBE like in the earlier story.

Then in that same home, right around the same time as the Hat man, we both woke up to a flute playing a short diddy in the hallway a couple of times. We never knew quite what to make of that. No flute players in our home and no radios or TV were on.

My only other personally interesting story (save my drug years in the 80's which gave me some rather unpleasant experiences) was the only lucid dream I've had to the best of my knowledge. I woke up in a dream and had read about LD, so I wanted to take control of it. There were many people walking around in what seemed like a fairground carnival sort of setting. I immediately tried to get people to do things that normal people would not want to do for testing purposes.

The reactions were what intrigued me. Some ignored me like I was a nut. Some did what I asked, and others said no sternly and seemed angry I would ask. I also tried to control the dream's general environment but I don't recall what happened.

I think my take away point that always stuck with me, was how individualized everyone was, much like walking down a real street on Earth and asking people to do stuff they would not normally do. I thought to myself, I have to be in the astral plane, because there's no way my brain was coming up with all of these unique and highly independent characters.

On my earlier story about the OBE in the bed, I wanted to add in, I imagine those vibrating beds they have in cheap motels might could feel similar, if it had a high enough frequency to what I felt of my wife's vibrations. So, there may be ways to induce that sort of energy across a bed. However, we did not have any type of vibrating mechanism, and I still don't think a fluffy pillow should be able to vibrate like that, so the testimony still stands. : )