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What if the astral realms etc are also a fantasy?

That's sorta what I was getting at, actually. The astral would be a psychological construct just like the physical. The things going on in our imagination are as real as the world around us, because the world around us is equally imaginary.

For example, you see the window next to you, and it looks transparent. Your mind thinks of the window as being universally transparent, however, if someone out there only sees ultraviolet light, the window will appear black to them. What you've assumed to be universally true turns out to be nothing but a personal model of the universe. If someone only saw deep IR rays, the WALL will appear transparent to them. We just commonly agree that it is opaque

And this gets stranger when you account for people whose minds have lost touch with others. I read an account by someone who did LSD a long time ago, and it still impacts the way he sees the world. Sometimes he'll look at a window, and the curtains will be blowing in the wind, even though there is no wind in the room. So you wonder, is he wrong, or are we wrong? The rest of us would commonly agree that the curtains are not moving, but who is correct?

Well, neither. The curtains are an interpretation of the universe's data, made tangible to our minds. We created the image of the curtains based on a set of rules we subconsciously communicate, and sometimes a person decides to break those rules

I think we're 'addicted' to physical reality because it's fun to share a common imaginary world with others. Sometimes we dislike the willy-nilly realities we dream up at night, and prefer something more certain and persistent

Heh, I was just reading a quote by Einstein. "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

Well, I contest that there is no physical reality, not even an illusion. What we have are intelligent life forms within the universe, viewing it subjectively, each constructing their own model of what the universe is. This means one person's physical reality is not another person's physical reality, even if the two realities can communicate and become similar. No two parts of the universe can view it exactly alike, therefore, one person's reality can follow rules different from another person's reality.

That's why I say dreams are as real as the physical. Some sorcerers in history have 'dropped out' of physical reality to go live in dream worlds with other people. You wonder, how is it possible to leave the physical and live in a dream, if dreams are just a psychological construct?  Simple: Because the physical is a psychological construct.

But hey it's a fun construct sometimes.

no, not really

Sorry, Lucidity444, it seems you can't post anything here without a few weirdoes raging and derailing the thread

That's not the right subject at all. Are you feeling okay?

That sentence doesn't make sense. Why are you still posting?

If need be, you folks could go rage in another thread. This isn't group therapy

you mad?

Some people totally baffle me with that stuff, and it annoys the hell out of me because they never reveal their methods.

I've been learning more about the mind, and I'm becoming telepathic to the point that I can receive messages just by going into a calm state for a moment (not even meditating). It turns out, we can hear things with our minds the same way we hear with our ears, and it can be plain as day. But, as a culture, we've learned to ignore it and pay attention only to seeing and hearing, to the point that our mind's senses have been dumbed and made indistinguishable from imagination. Now the signals only register on a subconscious level.

It's like how we ignore our sense of smell most of the time, but more extreme than that. The smells still give us feelings, but it takes an extra moment to realize it's our nose creating that feeling.

I imagine, the person you met has spent her life listening to these signals (as she seems unaware of how she does it), so it's natural for her. Whereas I had to learn the ability from scratch and still don't have it down very well

Have these beings(the ones in command) achieved their ultimate evolution or have they achieved a level of evolution that, they are satisfied with - thus they stay there - or are they stuck in it because of their devious ways?

I read an account by someone who met the 'higher' beings of the hierarchy. They're much like the rich people of Earth, and lived in a sort of luxury we can barely imagine. They lived on a planet that glows, and the material on this planet responds to thoughts so that you can imagine anything and it becomes material. You could live in a video game, for example. The spirits there were physically formless, appearing however they want, or not at all. They were very snobbish and treated the Earthly spirit (who had accidentally projected to the planet) like an animal that had gotten loose from the zoo.

They pay a high price to live that way, though. Like any place where resources are unbalanced, the privileged have so much to lose, and so many ways to lose it, being surrounded by underprivileged people who want it. These beings were bombarded regularly by underprivileged spirits - 'the dark spirits', they were dubbed. Those spirits have been attacking in waves against the planet, and are beginning to get the upper hand against the snobbish inhabitants. It scares the hell out of them because they only have so many resources to fight with, whereas the underprivileged have nothing to lose.

Now here's the kicker: These 'dark forces' consist of beings who defected from the Federation. The Federation has been controlling galactic incarnation in such a way that certain spirits are always privileged while others are dumped on planets like Earth, and the victims of this system suffer and die over and over for millenniums with no sign of release. Eventually, people go insane, or rebel. This rebellion is becoming pretty organized and now includes some very powerful forces.

So it's similar to how the elite of Earth exploit the less privileged, using them as disposable tools, and then the poor decide they've had enough and slaughter them.

But, as we've learned, today's poor will be tomorrow's tyrants. So, from my perspective, the privileged and under-privileged are all the same in potential. The under-privileged tend to exploit the weak in the same manner as the privileged, which means this is not the fault of the elite or the poor alone. They're all suffering because they've agreed that it's okay to kill or enslave the innocent.

So that's why I say this galaxy is full of people who love chaos more than they hate it, and the solution might be to give them an extra 'push' into a level of chaos they can't withstand

Hey, I live to entertain the stupid, apparently

Okay, I'm not trying to be offensive hear but seriously, you have absolutely no concrete evidence of what you're saying.  I'm not saying I'm any better, but coming out and telling someone their opinion is wrong because your opinion is right is kind of an immature thing to do.

You've still also not said what exactly is going to happen on 2012.  So my next question is obvious, but in your opinion what's going to happen?

Another thing is, how exactly are you preparing for this catastrophic event?

That's hilarious.

Anyway

And how does one become Powerful enough to destroy those beings?

I must agree with you. I doubt I had free will, when it came to this. To be reborn on this planet. Why would I come here? I am in love with the stars. I want to spend my time in space ships, visiting other planets, finding ruins etc etc. I do resent being stuck on this planet. Why would I have chosen this if it makes me unhappy? To learn something? nah. Remember. Free will means you can choose. Changing your mind is included. There's no way for me to change my mind, is it? So, there's no free will.

I've been learning how to change things on a massive scale like this, and, ironically, I've learned much of it from the Federation.

If we would take our attention off the big-shot rulers of the galaxy for a moment. Notice all these ordinary people who are unopposed to exploitation, unopposed to destruction, unopposed to slavery - they justify it, even when it's happening to them.

Kinda strange behavior, isn't it? They're victims, sure, but should they be rescued? Do they WANT to be rescued? If we destroyed the beings who trap spirits on this planet, the ordinary death lovers among us would take over and continue the entrapment. So the problem isn't a small, elite organization, but masses of people, all victimizing each other and they love it.

So, the solution is not to target the leaders at all, but to aim for the little guys who uphold the leaders.

What to do about these people? Simple: Give them more of what they want. As long as they enjoy the cycle of torment, we can give them more than they can handle, until eventually they decide this isn't fun anymore, and they'll quit. It's a bit like making a kid smoke a box of cigarettes so they'll never want to smoke again.

Anyone else just pretty chill about the 2012 thing?  I mean, if there is some disaster waiting then...  What are we gonna do?  If there is an alien race coming to kill us, what are we gonna do?

"we" are going to prevent it from doing too much harm if anything happens. 'You' are going to be lizard food

Interestingly, a few years back I found a lower astral program that had the newly dead believe they had reached the light and were then re-directed back here for whatever purpose.

That is pretty interesting. It seems like their methods are getting lower
My favorite trick is where they tell the person "you have a mission to complete on Earth!" and the person goes dutifully back to the planet. In all the dozens of accounts I've read, not one person was told what this 'mission' is.

Sometimes I think the Federation is cutting us off from the galaxy so we don't tell anyone what kind of programs are being conducted here

It's theoretically possible. I'm pretty sure normal PK uses the spirit anyway

I can believe that. Like I said, some people have an unadulterated choice to incarnate.

The way I understand it, incarnations aren't controlled by any central force - no deity, no a universal karma, no universal rules. It's only individuals and groups who make rules. A spirit could theoretically show up and incarnate where they want, provided they're able to inhabit the desired body, and provided they don't meet any resistance from people or groups.

But there are interstellar organizations who control much of this planet, and they put most of the spirits here. The 'Federation of Light' seems to control most of it. I guessed 90% earlier. The various groups have different views on 'free will', as some give you free selection of places to incarnate, while others tell you where to go, what to do, and they can have some cruel methods of making you do it. Some use slavery, trickery, coercion. The Federation likes to use subtle manipulation. When they want you to incarnate somewhere, they ask you politely, and if you say 'no', they'll try a little harder to convince you. If you continue to say 'no' they'll start to penalize you, saying something like "if you don't, you'll have to incarnate on a lower planet", and the penalties get worse and worse until you say 'yes'.

This, in their mind, is "choosing to be born here"

The Federation then accepts no guilt for any hardships you endure, and is not at all concerned with how you live or die. They basically pile low-level spirits onto the planet and keep a loose watch over them, using Earth as a sort of daycare for careless, misdirected kids.

Generally, incarnations are decided by someone else and, often, that 'someone else' considers you disposable, like a tool. It's fun to think we chose all this - and perhaps a few people come from factions that gave them an unimpeded choice - but I'd say maybe 90% were fooled or coerced into incarnating, based on everything I've studied.

And I think that's our biggest problem. We can never consider ourselves an independent race, we can never be expected to get along, and we have no reason to care about the planet. If anything, we have every reason to destroy it, like breaking out of a cage.

Its just a name, i´d rather think that "we" give such entities names, so we can identify it.

My thing is, I don't outright accuse reptiles of the fluoride attacks, even if they have some influence on the planet. That's because the ones with the most control of Earth - the ones who decided we should be made stupid and unaware of the outside universe - are the self-proclaimed 'light beings', the angels, Pleiadian types. I would just as soon believe that the 'fragment of Archangel Michael' (if he's real) is taking part in the poisoning.

I think Icke's claims are nutty too, but I'd be very skeptical of a being who calls their self an archangel. A lot of psychics like to portray themselves as Jesus (or your favorite deity) and tell people how to think and what to do

I'd like to be the one injecting the chips. The people in this society are animals

Shut up with those reptile storys... Tongue im sure in every story is a spark of truth, but i believe most of this is garbage.

You are the last person I would ask for an opinion.

Anyway, fruits (and I think nuts) contain natural fluorine

"so I would not worry about the toothpaste"

Then you're looking for excuses to not worry. Swallowing a teaspoon of toothpaste can kill some people

People are already settling into other planets, and always have been in small numbers. If - by some chance - the Sun expanded to the point of consuming the Earth, it would be a very gradual process. The results would vary greatly from person to person.

Secondly, when galaxies collide, life is only marginally affected, because the stars are so distant from each other that there's a very slim chance of two stars colliding. Some say our own galaxy is a hybrid of two galaxies that collided not too long ago.

If a huge, sudden catastrophe destroyed the planet, the remaining spirits would incarnate on another planet, or remain in space, or just stay on the destroyed planet

I saw a lot of drawings, but they were just your usual cave-scribbles of hunters and animals and things. If there was any meaning, it was lost on me.
Here's an attempt at drawing the strange figure I saw http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/6788/cavefg4h5656.jpg

I hear that North America before the European colonization was plagued by a group of Reptilians, especially in the West. The Navajos recorded images of reptilians on stone walls, but these pictures are off limits to the public unless you get a Navajo tour guide (as they can bypass government security). These reptilians used mind-tricks to cause conflicts between the native tribes and control them - also demanding human sacrifices and deifying themselves. They were known to take the appearance of anyone they wanted. Utah, furthermore, is where the Great Gallery of Horseshoe Canyon lies, and it's known as the birthplace of Mormonism - a version of christianity that heavily involves the cosmos off-world life.

But even I doubt that this organization was fighting the reptilian alignment, as none of them gave any indication of that, and I didn't see any reptilian drawings in the book. Their enemy could be another menace from more ancient times

it's bull crap. They want to control people by saying "we are the light"

Funny thing: I haven't brushed my teeth for several years and they are in perfect condition. I just clean my teeth manually, and spit now and then so bacteria doesn't gather. Like Tiny said, fluoride actually makes your teeth (and your bones) brittle. I also avoid tap water and drink non-concentrated juice (which I do anyway, fluoride or not)

But I'll note that I don't feel very psychic. Smarter, maybe, but not psychic.

I notice, India is one of the most psychic places in the world, and they have even worse fluoride attacks on their water. They're required to have twice as much as we do. They also have a lot of reptilian bases underground