Messages

I've had the same idea myself many a time!

That's interesting, kind of reminds me of those MENSA  IQ pattern matching puzzles, where giving patterns, you have to spot the odd one out, or guess the next logical pattern, very abstract really!


Google famously used these kind of puzzles in it's recruiting campaign !


There are some good puzzles here, kind if simlar or close to what you are trying to do here

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/


some good stuff here too

http://www.mathpuzzle.com/

arrrgghhh!

All the action is in Edinburgh!

Anyone near York, Leeds, Newcastle, Middlesbrough areas???

I'm near Middlesbrough in Stockton-On-Tees!

sorry to ask, but why would a moderator need to edit so many posts?

[placing too much importance]

Oh great thanks!!!
Talk about confusing!

Hi Billion

So if I now said that the only way to project is by standing on your head, you'd spend the rest of your life practicing by standing on your head then?  

All I meant was that I used to think that I had to be really really relaxed to get anywhere - I mean to the point of practically falling asleep.  And normally, I'd fall asleep in the process  

But, lately, as I've been relaxing, I've heard sounds that are not physical and seen mental images and so on, while I've been at those beginning stages of relaxation and far more wide awake than I ever have been before.

So I do still agree that relaxation is important, but my point was that I was placing too much importance on it.  Placing too much importance on any one thing can hinder progress, in my opinion.  That's what I was getting at.

Hope I've cleared that up.  

Sarah

Still, confusing, you mean there is a specific level of relaxation that is enough, you don't need to go overboard? right?

if that's the case can you describe when you were over relaxing,
and what level of relaxation is enough?

Is there any way to gauge level of relaxation?

I have projected a lot..usually on waking up from lying on my back.BUt I always go to sleep on my side.Hope you enjoy the Monroe experience..i was there a few years ago since i admire Monroe's effortsand OBE books..but it did not succeed for me..i felt that most folks were buls***ting about their alleged experiences..

         

Hi Eagle of Light



I used to think that a certain state of relaxation was necessary, but in the last couple of weeks, I have come to realise that my belief about relaxation limited my experiences, in that I only had experiences when I was very relaxed.  Once I realised this, I began to have experiences when I wasn't so relaxed.  

oh great!
You've just blown away the most fundamental precept from Bruce, and everyone else, i.e you must be able to relax before anything happens..


Oh great thanks!!!

Talk about confusing!

I'm in the UK,  in a town called Stockton-On-Tees,
two closest well known towns are LEEDS and NEWCASTLE

Anyone near me in the UK?

This is not phasing. It's a simple OBE method that could unhook your personality in another consciousness thread. A similar practice has been described in Vijnanabhairava Tantra but just as Catmeow I learned it myself. However, my approach wasn't that heuristic, I have rather understood how OBE works.

Actually what we are dealing here with are two set of body focuses. One set is associated with being in the body (I call it autopoetic triad), and another with being out of it (OBE triad). Basically an OBE could be triggered either by collecting body awareness exclusively in one (or more) points associated with the OBE triad (á la Frank), or by oscillating awareness between members of the OBE and autopoetic triad (Catmeow).

Hi BillionNamesofGod

I do think it's worth a try, although I'm not sure if chakras are actually involved, I simply don't know.  My feeling is that by focussing on the two energy centres you "go within yourself" ie withdraw awareness from the physical world and concentrate on the "inner world".  So in Frank parlance this would be identical to "shifting focus of consciousness". Once you've disconnected from the physical (shifted focus), the "roll out" part is easy...

Maybe others can give this a try?

Fascinating stuff  this two point focus method certainly from my eyes is a phasing technique, simply because it's more about internal focus, and you don't need to know anything else.

Traditional methods seem to be the oppossite, all about focussing all of your body, being very aware of your body etc.. this seems very oppossite so to me fits more into the phasing concepts.

What interests me here, here we have a technique which I've never seen described in any book or by anyone else !!  This is something entirely new to me.   I still think you can be more successful at phasing by embracing energy concepts! They are all interlinked as "pmonline" would say.

Upstream can you give me more information and links about  Vijnanabhairava Tantra, autopoetic triad, OBE triad, I've never heard anyone talk on these days, so it's great stuff.
I'm really quite excited about this  oscillating/phasing on two points method,  I think there is something new here, perhaps there is a "resonance" phasing/oscillating method here that can guarantee OBEs!

Infact it's virtually a bridge between pure 100% phasing methods, and non phasing methods I feel.

Can anyone else elaborate if they have tried this method?

so phasing is like remote viewing, or pure "astral" projection,
where you create a virtual environment in your head, and  imagine your self in that environment, and you are walking around it.

This sounds like "astral projection",  not a real Out of Body experience.

Since you get into into a Astral Plane, via Lucid Dreaming, and Projecting
out of your body into the RTZ first,  phasing just skips the dreaming naturally bit, and skips the out of body in RTZ zone bit.

In order words you are creating your own dream environment in the astral by means in pure visualisation, and starting off a lucid dream immediately, rather than waking up lucid and realising it's a dream, in an already astral created environment?

So the phasing methods, is like a concious Lucid Dream? (you never get any OBE sensations, you just know you are "Dreaming" from the start )

Is that correct?  So  it's like "remote viewing" your own astal built environment?

It makes a lot more sense when you think of phasing as a *concious* lucid  dream in a environment you create and "step into" fully concious.

It's like lucid dreaming without having to fall asleep first, and realise you are dreaming - you are in astral type environment.

Does that mean when in OBE/RTZ going to Astral is going to a place you can actually mentally jump to without actually leaving your body first conciously?

I suppose it's like when you are tired, and instantly fall asleep, you can instantly I suppose enter a Lucid Dream place, if you could keep yourself mentally awake.

So the question is how do you create a OBE/RTZ once you are lucid in you r own astral created environment?

Sounds like a fast method of getting obe if you can figure out how to get into RTZ once in your lucid dream environment?

the 180 degree phasing switch bit, must be when you enter Astral so you can create your lucid environment conciously.

I use exactly the same technique.

Recently I discovered another technique (after waking in the morning).  Lie on my back and focus on top of my head (chakra?).  Then focus on heart (chakra?). Switch focus between these two a few times.  Then I begin to feel weird (dizzy?) and after this can roll out of bed/body and begin a LD/AP.

Don't know if this has anything to do with the chakras, rather I think it's simply a mental focussing aid - by focussing attention away from the physical body (on heart and crown chakras), and because your body is sleepy, you slip into MABA (mind-awake-body-asleep) quickly.  Once in MABA it's easy to initiate an LD.

There is no exact science and there is no particular necessity for any order of states. That doesn't stop people thinking that way, of course.

I'm not what you might call a fan of RTZ projection, but as a demonstration to myself, a few times I have projected in a traditional sense directly from the physical (no "trance state" or any other state) into the real-time zone.

What this practice of RTZ projection actually entails is a particular kind of energy interaction between the yellow and purple energy centres. You need to be fairly relaxed, I suppose, so you can focus on the matter in hand. But if you set off the purple centre and let it throb away you'll feel a vibrational energy travel down your body and interact with the yellow centre. When you feel the two start to "talk to each other" then you'll find you can simply rollout of the physical.

When I say "talk to each other", after a short while there comes a point when you feel waves of a tingling, buzzing kind of energy travelling up and down your body. At which point you should feel incredibly light and airy, and feel "static electicity" type symptoms. You might hear a static kind of crackling or hissing and feel tingles and stuff. When I say you'll feel light and airy, it's like you are in a tiny boat bobbing up and down on the waves of an ocean. At which point you should be able to just roll to one side and "exit" into the real-time zone.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression all the so-called "exit techniques" were designed to bring you to the point where you could "exit". This is not the first time I've seen a post of late where I'm seeing evidence that people are beginning to think that some kind of technique is necessary in order to "exit."

If you fire-off the two energy centres as I described then you'll simply plop out of your own accord. In answer to the question of, "How do I know when to exit?" The simple answer is: when you feel like you can. Once the requisite conditions have been met, there is no trying... it just happens.

You say you are feeling strong vibrations. So you have obviously set something off. I always used to tell people that once they are at the vibrational stage then they should be able to just rollout. But then I realised people who do "energy work" tend to get all manner of vibrations as a result. Not just the particular kind of vibrations that occur as a result of the energy interation between the yellow and the purple centres as I have described. Apart from setting off my heart centre for a bit of fun now and again, I never engage in any kind of specific "energy work".

A such, if I were you I'd try and find out what, exactly, you have energised in order to get the vibrations you are getting. Because you can try all the "exit techniques" in the world, but if you do not have the necessary centres energised and the requisite engagement between them, you will go nowhere unfortunately.

I feel too much emphasis is placed on techniques these days. Problem with that is Astral Projection is an art, not a science. It's the difference between creating music using computer software and playing the actual instruments, painting your house and painting someone's portrait, that kind of thing.

Yours,
Frank

from
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18212&start=0


wow this is amazing!!! Above is I think the first post I ever read from Frank, I sent him a PM asking to explain his method.

His phasing method, seems identical, i.e. the focus on two alternate energy chakra centres, the purple and yellow one.
Basically, frank says he can get an OBE purely by stimulating two of the correct energy centres.

This is remarkable  I get the main phasing method is actually New Energy Work on two centres, and it appears from that simple act alone you can induce an OBE!!

Is this is what phasing is really all about?  All that is required in concentration on two energy centres?

Can anyone else verify and explain this method? Sounds like the most amazing and simple method to induce an OBE?

But I'm not sure if its worth it, perhaps I should focus on trying to go back to the phasing-type technique I used to use.

can you  explain your phasing method?

Anyways, back to the trance state and recognizing. Its something you have to feel and use your imagination. As I've said many times, I use my method by rolling around inside myself like a log or crouched into a little ball.. from there I am able to connect. this keeps my mind active and connects to the trance while my body falls asleep.

Hope this makes sense.

Tvos

mmm... you've got to add some more detail there Tvos, and you expand and explain more your method here?

I have this feeling that world peace might me not real.
The world is full of oppossites, ying yang type behaviour.

Can good really exist without evil? It seems there on purpose to balance out evil.

Perhaps this explain why in 2005, the world is full of misery.



If religions can't live in peace, and different mind-sets always clash, since the dawn of time, surely, good can't exist without evil.

but even forums are microcosms of conflict.

If enlightened souls here can't agree over the mystic/occult (NEW) vs the Phasing more science approach, what hope can we hold over more deeper social situations?

Not being negative or un-optimistic, just an observation, naturally I'm all for world peace!

I do agree with you that astral projection and understanding of it by humanity holds the key.

ive been getting into the trance state in about 30 minutes lately. (i think, not like i could tell how long its been). i basically feel vibrations andfeel heavier. it feels like my awareness has just woken up from a dream or like im not sure whats going on. this is the trance state right? this is when i usually get the urge to just fall asleep and forget it, but at the same time this must be it!? i hear the rope technique is excellent at this point. cant wait to successfully project consciously!

It would be good if people could input here,  quite often I fall asleep, on the sofa, while watching TV, surely I must enture a trance state first?

FOr some reason I can't recognise it.  It seems to be instant, you close your eyes to relax for a few minutes, and next thing you know, it's the morning.

The only time I can tell it's the trace state when I'm so relaxed I'm really chilled and feel good - but no vibrations.

Hi BillionNamesofGod,

Have you tried Monroes HemiSync?  It seems like it may be the ticket for some people.

Paul

yeah, but where do I get the monroe files from?
Can anyone send me a copy?
someone said they were on p2p networks, but I've never found them.

Ok, I just scanned a few lines from the BusinessWeek article about Raymond Kurzweil.  Look, just forget it, the whole article is laughable.

MRI's are reverse-engineering the human brain?  Give me a break!  All an MRI does is give a picture of brain tissue.  Like taking a photograph of a computer.  So that's reverse-engineering?  And computers have "artificial intelligence"?  Give me another break!  Computers are calculators - they don't "think".  they don't cognisize.

Human intelligence is characterised by various elements, eg cognizance, emotion, sense of identity, creativity, art appreciation, computation etc etc.  The only ONE of these which a computer can do is computation.  If you're waiting for a computer that will have real intelligence, you have a long long wait.  

The science of mapping the human brain has made very few inroads, no-one knows for instance where "memory" resides, and this guy is talking as if it's all sewn up already!

And as for nanobots? just pure fantasy.  No one ever built one, no one ever will...  The human race will have destroyed itself before anyone manufactures microscopic nanocomputers communicating via wireless technology.  Look, the wavelengths used for wireless technology far exceed the physical dimensions of a nanobot, therefore by definition wireless communication between these devices is impossible!

Just forget it....

I bet this guy's best friend is David Icke

Sorry BillionNames, I know you post good stuff, not digging at you, it's just that the article isn't my thing....!

catmeow

LOL

your sig did it for me!

"Unless we attempt the absurd we cannot achieve the impossible - Albert Einstein"

LOL

I had a look at the site, and the books are priced the same as normal books, and it seems pretty well organised group.



I'm certainly going to investigate further.  Seems a logical and professional non-profit orginisation. I'm amazed I've never heard of them before.


Maybe goto to their free seminars in the UK.

Anyone else in the UK up for it?

[Anyone who believes that consciousness is not energy is fooling himself or herself.]

There is a lot of misunderstanding out there about chi. On the one hand, I have heard a lot of believable testimony that it is very helpful to launch an OBE, sometimes even essential - on the other hand, there seem to be those who do very well without it at all.

I think it's likely that chi has little or nothing to do with OBEs. I believe it can be used to trigger them, but it is completely inessential. For most people, development of chi is probably the hard road to an OBE.

I am a believer in what I call time line jumping, but I also believe we exist with countless other beings and one being cannot override the rules of countless other beings.  There are many universal laws that cannot be broken in a time line. (snip)

Anyone who believes that consciousness is not energy is fooling himself or herself.
(snip)

I think we are on the same wavelength here. Having read a lot since I was a kid in this field, I've come to the same conclusion.

You can use phasing (Frank Style)  to "project" as you can use  NEW (Bruce) style to project, it doesn't really matter, it's just what works for you and your personal preference.
Personally, I just can't get my head around Phasing still , so the NEW and classic methods do make sense, even though I've not having much success with them, it's a clear logical road map.
I really don't know why people stick to one side, and ignore everything else, very basic and not very intelligent way to operate.
The goal is to expand our minds as much as possible with as much as possible.  True explorers keep and open mind to everything and explore everything by themselfs, they don't let terminology or history or personal bias in the way.

Energy is a vital aspect of Astral Projection or OBE, for many reasons, it just can't be ignored.  Even if you were a pure scientist and well read, you'd know Einstiens equation  e=mc2.    Everything is energy and interchangeable with energy, and everything is basically a vibration, going by string theory. So if you were 100% science biased, science has proven the everything is just vibrational energy anyway!

So chi, NEW, chakras, whatever you want to call it - it doesn't matter what is the label and how it's interpreted by scientists and non scientists.  It's still the most significant aspect of any new exploration - it's really that simple, to ignore it is quite foolish.
But then, one person said the whole world went around the sun, and the whole world didn't believe him, we thought the world was flat, so we move on with our understanding.
The problem lies in everything, people who can't take giant leaps in thought and imagination, will take a very long time to  catch up, until they do they won't believe anything - they are a victim of there own belief systems. My experience is just give them info, and just wait. You won't change their belief system so don't try.  
You wouldn't want  a Christian to be Forced into being a muslim, it just isn't going to happen.  You can't force an african tribe to believe we've been on the moon - no point even trying, their belief system doesn't allow it - it's that simple.

I'll give you a very simple example, a very geeky one.

Many people purchase a Playstaion, and won't play anything else.
Many people purchase a XBOX and won't play anything else.
These people are pretty much incompatible, even playing the same
game, as each game has minor differences.

Now enlightened souls with open minds (the kind of people who come up with e=mc2) are a little smarter.
They own a  Playstation and XBOX, and play all the games, they have a wider experience, and they can switch and talk to both types of people, the people with XBOXs and people with Playstations. They don't need or even tell their playstation friends, they have a XBOX, they don't need to the topic won't arise. And if it does, they can join in if they want, but they don't.

Now look at me, I've got a Playstation, XBOX and GAMECUBE and when the new consoles I'll have a PSX3,  XBOX2 and NINTENDO REVOLUTION,
PSP, Gameboy DS and anything comes out worth playing with.

So I've got a open mind and no bias, I actually have more fun, than sticking with one game console.  I have an expanded mind, and  just exploring "game space" as I'm a game-space  explorer with a completely open mind.

OK, geeky example, but I hope you get my point.  If someone is into phasing, they aren't that smart if they discount NEW and other methods, and examine them. Now if they start putting down NEW people, they have no hope to explore new worlds, and really are missing the point.

If someone uses NEW methods, and doesn't even look at Phasing methods, they aren't that smart.  Now if they start putting down Phasing people, they have no hope to explore new world, and really missing the point.


Think about Einstien,every day I think about it amazes me, it took ages and many years for people to even start proving his theories.
He had to take such mental leaps, and keep an open mind, to the extreme. All new discoveries, mean leaving everything behind, and starting again a new, using everything before your guide, not just one thing - EVERYTHING !

So where am I coming from?  I'm a true explorer of new frontiers.
I can learn any terminology, and willing to learn and try anything.
I'm will to in effect learn and many languages and "cultures" that are necessary to expand my mind   they are all tools I need for greater deeper understanding. I can converse with any type of closed mindset, and work on their level, no matter how low or basic or limited.
I want to understand everything and explore everthing.

SO I suspect I fall in the  1% or less of people who can do this, on this planet, the rest take sides, and waste a lot of time on very petty not even relevant stuff, it's just noise to me - doesn't expant my mind.

I want to expand my mind, That means learning every thing.


I'll leave you with one thought, based on my geeky example.

Who do you think has the most fun, when they go into a gamestore with a sale on?

Well, the 1% or less people, who've got every console !!!
Everythings a bargain !! * EVERYTHING * you can pick up anything and talk to anyone  - no matter what thier bias.

Now that's smart thinking.

AP is a Godsend, and already is the best university and invisible virtual environment of everything available, dont you think?
 
Brad

I agree with you.  I also actually, believe is Quantum Consiousness.
So I don't believe any computer how powerful, will ever be able to explore astral realms or "die" and be re-born, it's just hardware.
The problem is the hardware will be able to simulate OBE! you won't be able to tell the difference. One's real, One's fake.

AP to me is a godsend it really is.  

But I'm also a uber geek and I love all things geek.

Won't you join me in 2nd Life?

Try phasing.  Much, much easier

Han

ok, how?
I can't find any book or guide on "phasing for newbies" with exercises!!

on the other hand, plenty of free stuff, and books, by bruce on NEW energy.

See the problem?

Can you advise? I want to try!

I don't drink, don't really have fast foods, but don't really exercise!

still no luck with NEW - still don't know how to phase !

Did someone say you can  download all the monroe tapes for free?

help!

good place to run a virtual classroom (are you listening Frank?)
You just set off an audio stream and talk, and we can all have our 3d avatars,see each other and listen.

sounds cool!
it's free to sign up, what are we all waiting for?

my name is "who doctorow" in 2nd life..

This is quite an amazing article.
If you are into sci-fi, and futurism, like me this will happen, and when it does, why do we need to OBE? This will be better surely?

"Eventually, anything you can do in real reality -- business meetings, social events, sex, sports -- could be done in virtual reality. As the technology gets perfected, we'll be spending more and more time in virtual reality, because it'll be more and more compelling. Going to Web sites will mean going to a virtual reality environment. Some will emulate real environments, so you'll visit the Web to go skiing in the Alps or to take a walk on a beach in Tahiti. Others will be fantastic environments that don't exist, or couldn't exist, in the real world."

from

http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_35/b3644022.htm

what does everyone else think? Will OBE be less interesting?


If anyone wants to try a really cool OBE style VR environment, you can do it right now!


//www.secondlife.com

Will someone sign up and meet us in  2nd life?  You can fly around just like a OBE in RTZ.

The indians have been using calea for years, I don't think you can say that any drug has a placebo effect just because it works for some and not others. You can say that in all people it will have the capacity to have differing levels of effectiveness due to a number of circumstances and a number of factors involved. Different plants will also cause different levels of effectiveness, as will different harvesting methods and different times of harvest.
The Nova dreamer is no longer on the market and was retailing at well over 500 dollars. Certain herbs are well renowned for causing lucid dreaming, dream recall and many other things.  Calea isnt supposed to induce OBE on demand. It is supposed to induce a longer dream state where you can ask the spirit of calea to assist you with a problem psychically and then take it. I would agree that perhaps some drugs do just relax you enough to be in a trance and hence receive visions if this is your intent, i believe that Kava would be such a drug, but I don't agree that Calea is a placebo just because for me it has not had any effect. If I take the extract and it works then i will be even more convinced that this is not the case, because i have only used one supplier of Calea and the extract is coming from a different supplier. Personally I have not just tried herbs to do these things, I have tried many, many different methods and looked at all options involved, using the herbs is just one of many things I have tried.

I agree with you of course, and it's much cheaper than DreamMachines.
But I think you must not forget the practice and mental discipline, and many years of practice and mentorship from older shamans.
I've read a lot about this topic, and it's not just about the drug, that's a very small part of it. The drug does help, but the strong belief system and training is more important, the drug can be almost seen as ritualistic.

THe drug get's you in an relaxed/altered state, of course, but what counts is what do in that state, to be successfull.

I don't know whether you saw Derren Brown show in the UK, where he described sensations of being drunk to someone, and that person actually acted and became drunk.  * without any alcohol *.
So the state of mind is more important than the drug, that's all I'm saying, not the drug it self per say.