Messages

^lol, looked up and the time was 10:14.

TEH REVOLUTION IN CONSCIOUSNESS, DOOD!

:confused:

youve been talking to yourself in that channeling god thread for a long time now.

When your body's asleep there's a lack of sensory input that makes it easier to focus on the non-physical. It doesn't mean your body has to be asleep. I've experienced moving my astral and physical arms at the same time, and (more recently) I've scratched the back of my physical head while in a lucid dream.

alright il buy that.

it makes it MANY times easier but like anything is not necessary.

I think i can clear this matter up.

Your body must be asleep to REACH the state possible for astral projection. but once you reach the state required its all bets off.

does that make sense?

Six years left to live man. 2012 is coming. Do a search. Remember? Every 10 years or so the Earth is going to end?    Well, now it's teetering on the brink of extinction once again and the magical number is 2012

Oh, that thing. I prefer 2112 myself.

Also, I didn't realise I was posting in Time Traveler's thread. I hope he doesn't get mad at me again.

Yes, some ancient mayans did some pretty advanced mathematics for their time and now everyone thinks they predicted world events and the rising of a new consciousness. sounds like fun but i doubt it.

wow man sounds really bad, but ya know. its a learning experience. ive never APed before, and ive had thoughts about what if when i project, something will come out afterme, but i love the idea of HEY bonk YOU, YOU STUPID DREAM MONSTER YOU, HAHAhA YEAH YOUR COOL, NOT YOU F**KS**T, NOW ILL PROCEED TO BEAT YOUR butt attitued. sorry if im too vulgar but really, thats how i would approach the negative situation. or just try to imagine yourself as a super saiyjin and go kao ken on its butt. anyways i hope my intense attituted towards this helps. peace man.

hahahah i love this guys intense attitude!

stick around  

Over the last couple months or so I realize I've thrown out many of the previous concepts of OBE/AP/Phasing, I think mainly because they were contrary to my experiences.

Hi Stookie

You mention "many" of the previous concepts.  Get rid of them all and then the fun starts...  

You realise I'm not having you on? - I'm being serious.

Sarah

I can back that up. Try to fit your extraordinary experiences into words...not the other way around

In order to objectively perceive non physical reality you need to get your awareness to leave the physical state.  While we are living physical lives our awareness loves to be in the physical because thats what we are here to do. but you can still "trick" your awareness into perceiving other areas. This is best done by cutting off sensory stimuli and relaxing yourself to the point where your awareness will naturally drift off to go to sleep.

Then its just a matter of training yourself to keep that mental awareness while your body falls asleep. They dont call F10 "Mind awake/Body asleep" for nothing.

FRANK. THE MAN. THE MYSTERY.

Tv movie coming in 2012!

That's the " Bellilin, bellilin, amphora of salvation" one, right?

My defense is belief. I believe them gone.

We live in a super-materialistic world (Ahrimanic) that's reflected in both religion and science. People need physical proof for both, or at least physical explanations. And it's easier for each generation to accept this just by being born into it. And then when you throw politics into the mix, we end up living in some surreal world that people take as reality, when it's really just a bunch of crazy concepts that everyone agrees is real (Simulacra and Simulation). And it's even easier to believe in it when everyone around you supports it. Think about how different the world would be if everyone knew they would continue to exist after death. Would getting that new SUV or HDTV or making $150,000 a year be at the top of the to-do list?

In my opinion, everything that dies isn't real. Your body and brain will one day cease to exist. As will your car, house, and anything else with a physical existance. It's thinking, willing, & feeling that are real and continue to exist and evolve. But these things can't be "physically" found. The physical world is just a temporary place where these things can come into fruition.

(Just 2 cents out of a pocket-full of change)

Amazing!  

Maybe it's because it's all really in the eye of the beholder. If you like it, you can have it. It works exactly as you want it to. Pick and choose your accessories

That would be nice. Unfortunately, belief doesn't quite work like that. I believe in OBEs, but do I really believe in them? Do I really believe that I can have an OBE at will? (No, I definitely don't believe that, and I think that's a major problem.) Belief is tricky, and I don't think it works exactly as you want it to.

Great point. *golf clap*

Beliefs arent something you can change simply by stating "I believe in change." It takes effort to change beliefs. the good part is as long as you know the belief you want to change its really not that hard. Its when we come across bad belief and dont know what to do that creates problems. like trying to fix your car without knowing whats wrong or what to do to fix it.

Ben,

Its quite simple, to me. All physical matter is just a manifestation of consciousness. your brain included. this consciousness is formed by either your mind or our collective mind. or maybe your mind is fed the data.or a combination of both, who knows. but its quite clear to me that the brain is simply a machine that 1)runs your physical body(tells you when to poop, sleep, etc) and 2)translates subjective energy into objective "things"- the chair you are sitting on, the keyboard you are typing on. all manifestations of a single substance.

That doesnt really answer the question of how you reached that conclusion. Im also interested in the answer  . Also, do you not think you would benefit from a more open minded belief system? You seem positive of the conclusion you've reached and yet it seems to be based on nothing more then gut instinct. Its all good and well believing in something strongly but it can also limit your ability to learn. I find the stronger you believe in something the more likely you are to dismiss more obvious truths in search of an answer closer to your origional thoughts. Im not trying to be picky, just its healthier to approach many theories as theories, and not facts.

>RooJ

I thought I did answer the question...

You either believe that all physical matter is a product of our minds or that our minds are a product of our physical body. I believe the former.

I would be close-minded if i was presented evidence that proves other-wise, but so far i have only been presented with evidence supporting the belief that all matter is basically a big hologram and what we see right now is only one side of the true "reality", whatever that may be. quantam physics rocks. If evidence comes my way that contradicts this belief, i will question the belief and perhaps change it. But for now il stick with my belief. it makes me happy.

the dmt experience is nothing like a lucid dream/astral projection experience.

its a THEORY that dmt is naturally produced in the brain.

The DMT experience is remarkably similar to the AP experience. Read the clinical trials of Rich Strassman to see experiences which mirror those of AP experiences (and even alien abduction episodes), even to the extent of low dose DMT experiences producing the 'vibrations'.
I have friends who have both AP'ed naturally and taken Ayahuasca on numerous occasions (some having smoked DMT) and they freely state the remarkable similarities between the experiences.

Of course there are going to be similarities, hehe. I can tell you the first time i took mushrooms i thought i was having a lucid dream(which is what i still believe the psychedelic trip to be, a form of dream) But I can tell you from everything ive read that it sounds like a dmt trip is nothing like a lucid dream or OBE experience, in general terms. You just have no control when your on dmt, and theres always those four guys that appear to everyone. sure it could be said that both experiences take place in the same area of consciousness but it can also be said that to someone not used to physical life a walk in the park and a visit to the zoo are the same general experiences. us in the know so to speak, are aware that these are two seperate actions both taking place in the physical universe.

Regarding DMT being endogenous as just a theory, there is science backing it. One paper with details can be found here:

http://tripzine.com/pit/DMT_TA_anxiolytic.pdf

There are more scientific papers out there for those who wish to look.

I have no doubt that there is some truth to the whole thing, i just doubt that the reality of the situation is anything like we understand today. to make conclusions based on theory is just as bad in my mind as making conclusions based on faith.

A quick question regarding the Brain being generated by the mind, how did you reach that conclusion?

Its quite simple, to me. All physical matter is just a manifestation of consciousness. your brain included. this consciousness is formed by either your mind or our collective mind. or maybe your mind is fed the data.or a combination of both, who knows. but its quite clear to me that the brain is simply a machine that 1)runs your physical body(tells you when to poop, sleep, etc) and 2)translates subjective energy into objective "things"- the chair you are sitting on, the keyboard you are typing on. all manifestations of a single substance.

I've had such thoughts in the past, but it seemed a dead end avenue to me (personaly) as everything can just be dismissed as a product of the mind.

Exactly! Realize there is no such thing as "fake" or "real"- consciousness just IS! It follows attention, so whatever you focus on becomes reality.

In regards to the brain/mind generating our perception of reality based upon sensory data, then the brain is generated by the brain/mind – but this is our perception of it not the reality.

Lets make it quite clear that the brain and mind are two seperate things. your mind is the sum of all your perception at a given moment, memories, beliefs, etc. all form to create this objective picture. we live physical lives to give ourselves a time-frame, sort of like a "choose your own adventure" novel. I agree that our perception does not equal reality but for all intents and purposes it IS our reality. in other words, we dont care about the truth of reality while we are alive and participating in the "game". we just create these elaborate pictures to experience different concepts and ideas in different ways. at least imo

Psychedelic trips can be aborted by the use of certain chemicals which are known to act on the same receptors of the brain as the taken psychedelic. Are these receptors and chemicals just beliefs? Also how does tolerance and cross tolerance come into effect when taking psychedelics?

Yes these are all beliefs that we bring into our lives. by simply taking a psychedelic drug you are inviting the concept of "tolerance" and "receptors" into your reality.

I'm also curious about the fact that the one state in which we do have a Brain (physical reality) is the only stable state we experience. Everything else (dreams, lucid dreams, day dreams, rtz projection, AP planes etc) is highly inconsistent and can change and fluctuate based upon desires. Is this coincidence? When we dream there are no barriers between thought and action. Why is the one area of mind which creates a 'brain'/perception of a having a brain so stable, and quite resistant to individual desire or belief system types when no other area is?

When we dream there is no barrier between mind and environment. by putting ourselves into a physical universe we create a barrier between thought and action. mind/environment, whatever you want to call it. for instance you can imagine a tree in your mind right now, and morph it into a cat. in the physical universe you need to perform an objective action to create whats in your mind, or to bring it into "reality". this is where we got "wood carving"

does that make sense? basically by putting ourselves in a physical state we are adding an extra "step" in the whole "idea->reality" equation. not only can we IMAGINE an objective "thing", but we can create it physically with our egos and it will be there until other physical circumstances come around, most likely "time" or "decay" or "destroy." The physical universe is based on the idea of you bringing concepts into existance with your mind.

ive thought about this as well. except i dont think we "create" anything more than we "channel" it. like there is a physical universe out there with different physical laws that is exactly like the harry potter movies, and the authors are channeling this information.

its all tied into the concept of infinite

lo_ri_der,

think of our minds as a television tuner and what we see as our "reality" is the image on the screen. when you take drugs like psychedelics they simply open up your perception to other "channels".(with a very low degree of control compared to say, a lucid dream)

this is why the belief popped up that psychedelics are somehow the "quick" way to "spiritual enlightenment." It opens up your mind to concepts that you generally are not prepared for. Some are, some arent, and so people will have "bad trips." Does that explain it to you a little better?

PS- the brain doesnt have much to do with what you experience while dreaming or on a psychedelic trip. your brain is a product of your mind, not the other way around contrary to what popular science BELIEVES. the main function of the brain is to run your physical body as well as provide sensory input. when you take drugs you alter this input with non-physical stimuli, aka "hallucinations". these are the "channels" on the t.v. screen i talked about. so it could be said that drug trips are basically lucid dreams with a low degree of control. If you have ever had a proper lucid dream/astral projection you would feel the difference right away.

you just have to find whats right for you. try lots of different times until you find your "key" time.

the dmt experience is nothing like a lucid dream/astral projection experience.

its a THEORY that dmt is naturally produced in the brain.

Seriously this is the third or fourth time hes gone missing... i see a pattern here.

He'll be back.

Over the last couple months or so I realize I've thrown out many of the previous concepts of OBE/AP/Phasing, I think mainly because they were contrary to my experiences. One of these concepts is the physical body having to be asleep. I say this because almost every time I attempt to AP I "see" something, but I know I'm not asleep yet. For example, last night I attempted for about 20 minutes before bed, got up for a drink, and when I laid back down immediately started seeing bright flashes of light after only about 5 seconds (which is weird when you're in a dark room with no light source). Sometimes I see complete scenes. I'm definitely in a relaxed state, but far from asleep. Maybe I'm doing something related to phasing, but is different?

Do any others experience this? Is "mind awake/body asleep" really a good rule to go by?

I think its only a figure of speach. In the wider reality there really is no such thing as "sleep", just a change of perception. for some people the notion of "mind awake body asleep" means that they have to feel their physical body fall asleep, which isnt true at all. you can have an OBE when you are wide awake, the only barrier is belief. Monroe in his later years projected while eating breakfast, haha.

its like a muscle. its an ability you have to progress with over time. when you are running on a treadmill your legs are ready to go, just like when you are waking up your mind is still ready to go. so you might see scenes or other dreamlike experiences for a moment until you wake up. eventually i think you can get to the point where projection is like flexing a muscle, you simply look for a point in your mind and activate it.

I get the vibes alot. i just learned to ignore em. in fact today when i was having a lucid dream/obe i experienced them after i decided to change my "dreamscape". i closed my eyes, imagined my room and my head "energy center/chakra" just burst like a gun.

it felt quite weird but im sure il get used to it.

[Experimental Setting]

Hello everybody

Once again i did a verification experiment. I will just describe what happened and then we can discuss it.

Ok

Experimental Setting

My girlfriend placed a object on top of the wardrobe. This can be anything, but it should be fairly small, 3-dimensional and unique. She used things like a needle, hair clip, or a ball of wool in the past.

Why this setting?

I use this setting because  to me it seems very difficult to guess the object since it can virtually be anything. At least the chance to guess is way smaller then, for example guessing a playing card.
I also figured, it may be easier to perceive a real object compared to a abstract number for example. Also the goal of this experiments is not to proof anything but to explore the possibility of proof.

Outcome
I already did this experiment a couple of times in the past. Did it again twice this morning and the outcome is comparable each time.

Ok so here we go:

1. attempt

I awoke in the morning and still felt the sleep paralysis, so I figured this may be a good opportunity to project. I managed to "crawl" away from me body and moved to the living room (where the wardrobe is at) after about 30 sec my sight became brighter and I saw the wardrobe in front of me (the projection was weak, I almost lost focus a couple of times). I picked the bowl where the object was placed in and looked at it. To my surprise a Butterfly fluttered inside the bowl. I was aware of the fact, that it is highly unlikely that my girlfriend placed a butterfly inside the bowl, but I hoped that the real target may have a relation to a butterfly. That very moment I was pulled back to me body.

I did not move and managed to split from my body again

2. Attempt

I again moved to the wardrobe and this time remembered that Robert bruce once said, I should try to pull energy to the astral body trough breathing to enhance clarity. I did so and felt I vibrating sensation on my forehead (brow chakra)
I again looked inside the bowl and the my surprise saw a living bee that was humming there . I clearly say the yellow orange color of the bee with black sparkles.

What was the real target?

The real target was a tube of skin cream?! even with fantasy i can't find any match between a Butterfly a bee and skin cream :confused:

Questions

-Am I doing something wrong?
- what could I do to perceive the real object?
-what interpretations and conclusions can i draw from this experiments?
-any hints, ideas, suggestions, comments?

remark

After the second attempt a flow out of the window. There a saw a freeway right behind our house (in reality there is no freeway within 3 miles)
I found this perfectly normal. It didn't even cross my mind that there is no such freeway in reality. it actually felt very familiar! perfectly normal.

Was I not enough aware to do the experiments properly?

Best Regards Tom and sorry for the long post

Tombo read this post by Frank and see if theres anything you like:

"Having a lucid-dream is basically the Monroe Focus 22 state, only with a reduced level of conscious awareness. Focus 22 is the first proper realm where thought-equals-direct-action. I say "proper" because, technically, this thought/action effect comes about at the Physical-to-Astral bridge-zone at mental Focus 21.

I agree wholeheartedly with Daniel in his point that one of the biggest challenges is to conciliate formal mechanical logic with multidimensional logic. This hurdle is presented by the fact that, when we project, we don't in turn develop some super-sense of conscious awareness all primed and geared for Astral use. On the contrary, the sense of conscious awareness you take with you to the Astral is the very same one you have now. All of which means you tend to behave like a fish out of water the first 10 or 20 times you project.

To help overcome this hurdle, you need to gain a fair degree of understanding about the basic nature of the Astral environment, and the different ground-rules that apply. We have to gain familiarity with these basic rules in much the same way as we do when first entering the Physical. For example, perhaps the one most basic Physical rule (we gain familiarity with rather quickly!) is that no two physical things can occupy the same physical space.

A person who could not get the hang of this basic rule would forever have difficulties. Not only would they be forever bumping into things, pursuits such as driving a car, for instance, would be nigh on impossible.

Same thing applies with Astral exploration where, without an understanding of the basic ground rules, people will keep running into difficulties.

One of the main difficulties is presented by the fact that releasing emotions within the Astral environment acts as a kind of fuel that goes to creating the circumstances that surround you. This is a *tricky* one to overcome because these circumstances can seem just as real, and equally as lifelike, as circumstances are within the Physical. So if you release a little fear (very common) you will instantly find yourself in a mildly fearful circumstance.

Problem is, finding yourself all of a sudden in a scary situation will normally have the effect of making you even more fearful. So the situation will instantly become that much more scary; which makes you more scared; so it gets that much more scary; which makes you even more scared; so it gets that much more scary; and so on, and so on.......

If that were not bad enough, there is another basic rule which says, "Your experiences and/or circumstances are primarily governed by your expectations." Therefore, if you expect to encounter demons and dragons... then demons and dragons you shall encounter.

But that's not all. There's another basic rule which says, "like instantly attracts like." So it won't only be you having these horrific experiences. Chances are, you'll be surrounded by countless others all suffering the same fate.

Such a group concensus will naturally have the effect of reinforcing your beliefs to a high degree. Bringing into play the basic rule which says, "Your ability to perceive is proportional to your willingness to believe." In other words, the more you believe the Astral is a nasty and dangerous place, the more readily you will perceive it as such.

Bearing all this in mind, you need then to be careful how you go about things... else all manner of reality fluctuations can come about. For example, it is only natural that you should question your experiences. This is a great way to make progress provided the questioning aspect comes about as a result of natural curiosity. Over years of trial and error, I found the best most productive mental state to have while within the Astral realms: is to remain emotionally neutral, while maintaining a natural air of mild curiosity.

However, if the questioning comes about as a result of Doubt, then you need to be ever mindful of the fact that any release of thoughts of Doubt - while within the Astral - will instantly lead to you experiencing circumstances that support whatever level of Doubt you are feeling.

Then, just like in my release of fear example above, finding yourself all of a sudden in a situation where your doubts are justified, will normally have the effect of making you feel even more doubtful; so your circumstances will instantly become such that your doubts are reinforced all the more; which in turn makes you doubt all the more still; and so on, and so on.......

It's unfortunate that now and again I come across a person who once managed to successfully project to the Astral and subsequently concluded that it was all some kind of brain-generated fantasy.

We had someone come onto this BBS last year who was adamant on this. From reading into where they were coming from, it was obvious the person had been projecting to the Focus 22 state while releasing feelings of doubt. Of course, this person's doubts were immediately reinforced each time to the extent where they became utterly convinced their doubts were 110% genuine. All of which then blinded this person to the facts about what had truly taken place.

As for wanting "proof" and such like. A popular idea is the one about having someone else place a playing card or some other object out of sight, and so forth. But what I would suggest is you learn to become more proficient at projection and all the proof you can handle will be fed to you by the bucketload.

Yours,
Frank"

i always just put a pillow over my eyes.

im gonna try this, i just hope i dont freak out when i wake up and cant see anything when i open my eyes