Messages

Immediately after the 9/11 attacks, President Bush said it best when he said it was an attack on freedom.  If only he realized the truth of that statement.  By removing freedoms in the spirit of national security, he has completed the mission of the terrorists.  A vast majority of the people being held for alleged terrorist activities have never been formally charged.  

I find it hard to believe that we would go through the expense and trouble of having overseas prisons in countries with much more lax laws concerning the treatment of prisoners just to make them wear pink...  But, then again since when does the government wisely spend it's resources?

-Z

greatoutdoors - So, your criticism of Bush is that he isn't doing enough in the War on Terror?  And that border security isn't tight enough.  Closing our borders won't stop terror.  Nothing will stop terrorism.  A war on terror is unwinnable.  Just like the war on drugs.  Isolating ourselves and removing freedoms will only hurt ourselves and make the terrorists victorious in their agenda to destroy freedom.  It isn't that Bush hasn't done enough, it's that he's done too much.  Way too much.  The war on terror should have never been declared.  The department of homeland security should have never been created.  And, the CIA torture camps definitely NEED to be shut down.

-Z

In my tiny amount of time in this world, I have observed that the big kid rules the playground.  Bush's America is the big kid right now, and he's simply ruling the world as he sees fit.  I wouldn't want to be the big kid though.  If the big kid is too much of a bully and mean to the other kids, then they will likely rebel and try to gang up and defeat the big kid.  On the other hand, if he is too easy going, then the other kids won't respect him and he will lose control.

As for me, I am perfectly content being the observer.

-Z

I'll tell you where it began when you tell me where the circle begins.

Don't you see that serpent eating it's tail?

Time and Space are only linear in perception.  Some may argue that perception is all we have and therefore should be considered as the whole of reality.  They may be right, but still I want to know what is beyond my perceptions.

-Z

Well, I read an interesting idea somewhere in the PD.  It says that disorder and order both have creative and destructive aspects.  And to strive for order, or disorder, alone is a trip composed of both aspects.  But, the all creative trip is comprised of both order and disorder.

So, I guess I strive for this 'all creative trip'.  I try to build people up.  I try to always come up with new fresh ways to approach things.  I try to be as open as I can to new ideas and perspectives.  I figure the more I add and the less I subtract from the world the better.  This is how I balance the Chao within myself.

I always thought of creative order and creative disorder as being two halves of the same side of a coin.  The flip side of the coin having destructive order and destructive disorder.  Heh, so maybe the coin is always flipping over and spinning at the same time in order to keep all the elements in motion.

-Z

I'm a discordian as well... But, I'd like to see maybe a discussion of the Sacred Chao... I have a different take on the importance and application of the Chao myself.

Sacred Chao - A symbol resembling the yin-yan of eastern philosophy.  It is a disk divided in half by a curved line.  One side of the disk has the Apple of Discord and the other has a regular pentagon.  The side with the apple is said to represent the eristic/creative principle of disorder, and the side with the pentagon represents to eristic/creative principle of order.

The idea of the Sacred Chao is that these forces of order and disorder should be kept in balance.  One principle should not outweigh the other.

Most discordians believe that in today's society order is far more prevalent than disorder.  So, discordians try to bring more disorder into society by doing things like "Jakes" and ahem... "Mental-Fornications"

I think that it is true that the Chao should be balanced in society as a whole, but I think the only way to resolve the conflict is to first balance it within ourselves... (This is where I think I differ from most other discordians)

Anyways... thoughts?

-Z

So, then Indigos are like lepers?

Quite true.  Before knowledge there is always confusion, I suppose.

-Z

I don't believe that.

-Z

Well, according to special relativity, at the speed of light the space/time continuum would essentially compress down to a single point for the person travelling at the speed of light and at the same time the traveller would cease existing as matter and become pure energy...  Sounds like fun.

-Z

Maybe God has a keen sense of style?  

Sorry, couldn't resist.

-Z

Or, just to add a dash of confusion: "Everything is true.  Even false things." - Mal-2  

-Z

This is very interesting... although I wonder if they've thought about these gaps in a multidimensional sense... I mean to say that a gap in three or fourth dimensional space may not exist at the same place in higher dimensions.  Quite interesting though.

As to Supreme Truth... we must remember that everything is true.  So, then if something is supremely true, does that mean it is more true than everything else?  How is something 'more true'?  I don't think supremacy can apply to the concept of truth.

-Z

Group hug?  

I've also learned not to ask judgemental questions like, "Is so-and-so a bad/evil person?"  I did this once and the one card that struck me was the card that represented my wishes or desires associated with the question.  The card represented unfairness or injustice (I don't remember the exact card).  At first I was thought, "Well, that doesn't make sense."  But, then I thought about it and the card was exactly right... it was unfair of me to attempt to make a judgement about this person based on a card reading.

Don't know if this applies... but I'd also try to have good intentions behind the readings as well.

-Z

Hmm... So, if I'm not mistaken, this is an argument between 'believers' and 'skeptics'.  I'm not sure which camp I fall into since I only believe the things that I can't rule out with my skepticism.  I would humbly suggest though that we encourage people to not always take things at face value and look closer and deeper into the nature and truth of things.

I wouldn't be interested in achieving OBE's if I took my physical existence at face value and just believed physical reality was the total and complete truth.

I know I have only a few posts here, so I hope I haven't overstepped my welcome.  

-Z

Yes, I was aware I was dreaming... so it was at least an LD.  I never really thought about my sleeping self in LD's, other than I knew I was sleeping.  The only thing that made this LD different is that instead of taking place in a fantastical world, it was taking place in the 'real world'...

I didn't feel an 'exit' from my body.  I just fell asleep and 'poof' I was out in the parking lot.  So, maybe it was another LD?

-Z

Hi all,

I've already been posting here but never stopped to say hi!  I'm very interested in this subject.

I used to LD all the time when I was younger and if I even get back to being able to do that, I will consider it an awesome blessing.

Looking back, I think I even had an OBE once... Here's what happened:

It started out like a normal LD, except instead of being in the normal cartoon/comic book style world my dreams were usually in, it was just outside my apartment complex.  I was standing in my parking lot, when some sort of space craft landed near me.  The pilot of the craft wanted to take me to another star.  One weird thing about this pilot was that I couldn't look at him.  It was like he was beyond where my eyes could see even though he was right in front of me... weird.  So, anyways I got onboard the craft and we went to this 'star'.  When we arrived, it was an exact copy of my apartment complex we had left from, only it was day instead of night.  

I walked around the complex a little while... An old woman invited me into her apartment.  There was something about her I didn't like... I felt like she wanted something from me.  She had what looked like a crystal ball and she was insisting that I sat down with her and looked into the crystal with her.  I also didn't have the same level of control I usually had in LD's... at this point it felt as though the old woman was in control.  I ran away from the old woman's apartment and ran into my real-life best friend.  He was helping the old woman!  Every time I would run down a path, he would materialize in front of me and stop me.  At this point I flew up to where I thought my 'home star' would be and woke up.  

At the time, I just thought of this as another LD/nightmare... but now I think it may have been an OBE... what do you all think?

-Zyzyx

Well, if I remember correctly, in my dream I would see the word or words I had been trying to read and hear the word(s) being spoken to me.  I'm sticking with curiosity as well... thanks for the responses.  

-Z

Some time ago, I became interested in OBE... mainly because I used to have frequent lucid dreams during childhood and the concept intrigued me.  Just about the time I became curious about having OBE's, I had a type of dream I had always called a 'teaching dream'.  Whether it's a dream with my guide(s) or my higher self I don't know.  When I was little, I would often learn how to do things in my dreams.  I learned how to read mainly in dreams.  

Anyways, in this 'teaching dream', I stated that I wished to learn how to OBE.  The response was a single question.  "Why?"  I had no idea how to answer it.  If there was a right answer or not.  The best I've come up with is because I'm curious.

I'm throwing this out there because I was wondering if any of you had a better idea of how to tackle the question of "Why?"

-Z

Well, I just started NEW... I'm on day 9... but, I've already felt some changes in myself.

I could feel the energy movement in my feet and hands.  The legs and arms took a bit more work.  I feel healthier than I did before I started the program.

A couple other things I've noticed so far:  Before, when I'd wake up in the mornings, when I would get out of bed, my feet always felt kind of stiff and awkward until I walked around for a while and they 'woke up'.  After starting NEW, that hasn't happened anymore.  Also, I remember after I stimulated the energy in my hands for the first time, I felt like I was on a huge caffeine rush.  I was really feeling hyper.  It was weird.

Oh well, that's me so far.

-Z

I like the idea of the creative/destructive duality over the good/evil duality.  As far as evil conquering and enslaving good.  I don't think this is the case because of the nature of those two concepts.  I remember a dream I had recently.  I was in a hellish prison-like area.  One of the people in this "jail" told me, "We hold the keys to our own locks in this prison."  I see evil as a self-conquering/self-enslaving principle.  Good is a liberating concept, as I see it.

-Z

Hello,

If you eliminate fear, you eliminate part of what it is to be human.  Fear is a good thing, it teaches us to look before we leap, among other things.

I'm reminded of a lesson I had to learn: "Courage does not mean 'to live without fear'.  Courage means we must control our fear.  We must act in spite of our fear.  This is what the feat of courage really is."

-Z

Well, I believe the physical is tied into the non-physical.  Actually, this is true according to physics.  E=mc^2 literally means that energy is accelerated matter.  So, energy is matter.  In an OBE we exist in a form of pure energy.  Then when we return our bodies, the memories of our energy bodies are transferred to our physical brain. This is quite easy since our brains operate via bioelectric impulse, i.e. energy.

-Z

Hi all,

I just finished day 4 of MAP.  It says that after the toe work the sensations can be quite strong.  I haven't felt anything extraordinarily strong though.  I can feel my awareness moving up and down my toes.  It feels a bit like a sock being put on and taken off over and over again.  Also, it kind of happens of it's own accord after the first time I do the exercises...

My question is, should I be worried that the sensations haven't been very great?  Does this mean I need more practice until I feel something more powerful?