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Messages - Whirlwind

I had been up and wide awake for hours this morning when I suddenly felt what I thought was something biting me on the top of my left hand, and looked down to see nothing there, though I felt an itching pain work its way up my arm from the "bite" area, seemingly headed for my heart (or, more exactly, my heart chakra). I pled the Blood of Jesus in the form of standing beneath the cross with my head bowed (not out of reverence, but because I physically could not bring myself to watch Him suffer); and I felt and saw the warm splash of His blood drip onto the exact spot where I'd been "bitten" by the unseen thing, and watched as a transparent, glowing, ghostly-looking "insect" ran out of that spot and out of sight! It was so real that I began frantically slapping the spot to try and kill anything that might yet be invisibly crawling out or around the spot, but nothing was there, including what had moments ago been the small swollen spot on my hand, which was now completely normal, including my arm. The thing that had exited looked like you might imagine the ghost of some sort of exotic insect might look, except that this did not look like any Earthly insect, and it felt evil, and I instinctively knew that it was a negative "critter"—sort of the equivalent of a demonic bug—and clairvoyantly knew that it had been sent by a more sentient negative entity to attack me on its behalf; it had burrowed into my flesh to cause that pain, and it ran like hell when the blood of Jesus hit him, and probably to his own demise. All of this (and like attacks)—and the cure for it—because I've categorically decided not to let the Matrix tell me who I am.
Quote from: Subtle Traveler on May 09, 2017, 09:58:32
TMI does not have specific conclusions about this ... but individual explorers who are affiliated with TMI may ...

There is no separation, and this is a human perspective (and very often fear based). The physical and non-physical are all one thing. Our inner being (e.g., aspects of us) is already in each dimension. Whatever we the human are focused upon, that's what we are attracted (and align to that). Currently, you and I (and other here) are focused on the physical, so we are on this forum typing to each other.

Each being has attraction or resonating or vibration (whatever someone wants to call that for themselves) ... when a human transitions their energy or essence leaves the body behind permanently ... this resulting energy from the human experience is attracted to the next destination ... this is natural ... if they are vibrating at a rate which attracts the belief system territory, then this is where they are attracted ...

This attraction (because it is non-discriminatory) could place very religious believers and non-believers in the same setting ... because they present the same energetic after a physical life.

I think that energy is a better vehicle for pondering and de-constructing this topic. And, this is what I am suggesting (based upon my own understanding). My understanding of this is greatly influenced by the non-physical perspective of Frank DeMarco's guides (recorded in the Sphere & the Hologram).

Well said! Looking forward to reading DeMarco's stuff, thanks for pointing me to it. :-)
Quote from: Lumaza on May 09, 2017, 14:23:57
Advancement in any field of Research comes from a result of loyalty, dedication and commitment. I like to think of myself as a "dedicated practitioner".  :-)
Indeed :-D
Quote from: baro-san on May 08, 2017, 23:55:39
You made above some statements I don't fully endorse, but I won't argue with you.

Probably I don't quite understand what you'd like to discuss here. It seems that you have some spiritual / religious belief that differs from the belief of somebody you're fond of, and you would like that in afterlife, even if each one of you are sorted in your own Heaven, to be able to visit, and continue the relationship.

I believe you'll be able to do that, eventually one of you will realize "there's no Santa Claus", and will help the other to realize that too, the you'll move on together to greener pastures.

Those are some interesting, if absolutely incorrect, presumptions you've made there. If I wanted to go into any Belief System Territory I'd just intend to go there. And if I intended to retrieve someone, that would be co-dependent upon the will of the entity I wished to retrieve. But I have no intention of imposing my will on anyone else or judging them for where they linger.

Having said that, everything is Santa Claus; this physical reality is also dependent upon all of us who continuously observe it into existence with our belief/intent, no different than Paradise. The difference is only in your perception of the two. Ho, ho, ho!
Quote from: Sammie on April 24, 2017, 16:31:13
I this morning found myself in a dream of which I can recall many things one which was other people noticing a ufo from inside the bus and crazy storm weather. I could see a small ufo showing itself openly for all people on the highway. It was small and flied like a bird and seemed to wanted to catch peoples interest. I feel this may be something that is about to happen for real in the world sometime soon(whenever that is) I saw a ufo physically over 10 years ago myself actually. Well the bus continuen going and I ended up in my second home IRL and for a moment I felt some kind of deja vu that I shouldn't be there like it didn't make sense. Usually I have a lot of these moments in dream and shrug it off like nah it's nothin like I do IRL when I feel something strange usually. This time I kind of felt that the dream had it's pull put I held on to the feeling or recognizing something didn't make sense and immediately became lucid. Before I became lucid and started feeling that feeling I could feel how close the pull to staying unlucid was and how strong it was. I was extremely close to entering the house and let the dream control me, but instead became lucid. I know recognize how easy and hard it is to fall victim of a dream by simply not believing in your own will. A conscious effort is all that was needed even though it kind of felt like moving a mountain and lifting a feather at the same time. As I became lucid I started interacting and looking intensly on a wall which helped, but then I could hear a car in the dream which probably was the result of a car outside IRL and I thought I just keep focusing on this wall to ground myself in the dream which kind of worked until I started doing other things and then went back to my body. Nice experience, thoughts?

Thanks for sharing. I've had UFO dreams too, and I too always have a sense that they are prophetic in nature. I feel that a dream involving spaceships is very special, even sacred, especially in these times. Thank you again for recounting this one for us  :-)
Quote from: baro-san on May 08, 2017, 22:56:45
This territory isn't a "thought responsive" plane. That territory is.
Here you differentiate easier between subjective and objective. There, not that easy.
Your last statement doesn't make sense to me: can you believe in the existence of a place that you don't believe to exist ...?

Of course this territory is a thought-responsive plane! In fact, they all are...

There is no objective reality accept for the Sacred Void from which all of the aforementioned subjective holograms issue forth.

I didn't say anything about believing in the existence of a place that I don't believe to exist. I merely pointed out that believing that a territory exists doesn't necessarily mean that one isn't cognizant of it's mutual existence with other territories and the non-exclusivity of the subjective reality of that plane. In other words, you don't have to believe Heaven is the only afterlife or that it's any more or less "real" than Space-Time to be naturally drawn there or to visit by choice.
Quote from: baro-san on May 08, 2017, 21:25:55
What's wrong with watching a fiction movie, and believing it's real?
You can't have your cake, and eat it too.

How are those "territories" inherently different than this territory, or any other? You're watching this fiction movie while believing it's real—at least some of the time, or in select ways. Besides, who said that believing in a place (i.e. individually or collectively intending/creating it) involved the belief in its realness (whatever that means) or exclusivity as a reality/territory?
Quote from: Subtle Traveler on May 08, 2017, 17:36:10
I would word that a bit differently. It's important enough to emphasize and clear up here.

When we go to sleep each night, we return to the non-physical (every time). It naturally happen without effort or our intention. We are not required to be conscious in this experience, as our body sleeps.

In contrast, OBE's and "lucid" dreams are much more intentional and require a specific level of consciousness (awareness).

All very true...
I've read about this...and about people's astral (subtle) bodies being stored in a high-tech cannister of sorts and "adjustments" being made, among other activities; it would seem that the Alien Greys have an obsession with souls, particularly human ones, and that although most abductions occur this way, that people usually wrongly presume that they are in their flesh when it's occurring (although physical abductions do happen).
Quote from: Lumaza on May 08, 2017, 20:15:56
IF we were on a "Ufology" based Forum, your description here would be labelled a classic "Alien Abduction Case".

I have had many of these "pulled" put of the body scenarios. I even had one where I got pulled out by my feet, and then I was corkscrewed upside down through my ceiling. I had to abort the consciously awareness there. It was too much of a system overload to handle.

You can read about it in this thread here. My name at the time was "Lionheart". June 27th 2013

What really happened? I still am not sure. I definitely feel that I was "taken" somewhere.  It was my consciousness that was "abducted", not my physical body. It felt like my body though. But that would go against the laws of nature and science.

Yes! Of course! That makes a lot of sense, considering the abduction symptoms (and scant abduction memories) that I have; and I recently learned that 9 out of 10 Alien Grey abductions are of one's inner/astral body rather than one's outer/physical body, yet I had not connected this "dream" to them (but, rather, had wondered if these had been Gang stalkers, though due to reports of MILABS and other crossover phenomenon I guess that no such distinction can really be made anyway). I remember that you once had a different moniker before I found this forum because I read a few of the threads under Lionheart that you sent me links to. I'm on my way to read that thread now.
Quote from: Lumaza on May 08, 2017, 20:07:43
Dimensions are part of the vast "Isness" and they can also be explored. But yes, you must learn to handle your fears to proceed forward. Go in with a "Indiana Jones" explorer mentality and you will be lead ever deeper into the "Otherworlds".   :-)

Well speak of an "advanced APer" and he appears! Lumaza, you salty old dog! Caution, I'll be PMing you *que unnerving scene score*
Quote from: Subtle Traveler on May 08, 2017, 08:43:42
Monroe was a pioneer of the out of body experience ... he certainly traveled (and documented these travels) beyond what had been described before about projection and/or the out of body experience. However, he changed many of his original perceptions (of the 1960's and 70's) by the time he transitioned in the 1990's.

Today however (20 to 25 years after his transition) ... many of the people who knew him have replicated his experiences for others, carry on his vision for TMI, and are non-physically exploring and being non-physically guided beyond his initial perceptions. What they have discovered since Monroe (Frank DeMarco in particular) is that the Belief System territories were misunderstood by Monroe in this way. They are not about a specific religion or particular belief, as much as about a shared level of energy among the inhabitants. This shared energy is what forms the perceived limitations of these territories.

It is interesting to me that your question here presents its own limitations (e.g., realize that the better the question, the better the answer). All of this (e.g., being extended here into the physical) is about the expansion of consciousness. This is why a developing being would want to move beyond the belief system territories ... or any perceived level for that matter. They want to expand ... they want to follow their true nature of themselves and the Universe (Consciousness).

William Buhlman, in his fiction book Adventures Beyond The Body, describes how someone might exit the Belief System territories after their transition (if that's what you are interested in here). It is descriptive and its conclusions come from over 40 years of out of body experiences.

Generally, I would add that the four Miranon recordings (with Monroe) at the Monroe Institute may provide some initial guidance and non-physical perspective about Monroe's perceived levels, how progress is made by each being, etc. Miranon, as a non-physical being, communicates the nature of the expansion of consciousness. Then, I would suggest reading the Sphere & Hologram by Frank DeMarco. His non-physical guides provide non-physical perspective about Monroe's perceptions (and some erroneous human conclusions) about the focus levels and even the belief system territories.

Subtle Traveler, I'm sorry, I somehow missed your response before and just saw it now. Thank you very much for your very thoughtful and helpful response. So do I understand the Monroe Institute's conclusions as being that the Belief System Territories are no different than any of the other rings of existence to be explored and that no one should any longer feel the need to approach them (figuratively and literally) with with any sort of anti-religious prejudice? And that these dimensions are also part of the vast Isness to be explored rather than feared?
Quote from: Subtle Traveler on May 08, 2017, 09:26:48
The dream may be implying that you were 'a friend of the dead' in the past ... a past life. All of our past lives are a part of us ... a part of our inner being. We all have guidance. We cannot be here physically without it. We are extended from it. Our non-physical guidance is the much broader part of our inner being.

You did the right thing by simply asking, and waiting for a response. Contact with guidance is that simple. If you do not have a journal, start journaling these experiences. The conversation with guidance is not a 'one time thing'. They will want to go deeper with you. You do not have to have OBE's to contact your guidance. I personally find that they work very closely with my dreams. Dreams are non-physical messages (from guidance or our inner being ... whatever someone wants to call that for themselves). This is all a natural part of being extended here.

Thanks for your response. I'm glad you brought that up—I have indeed received messages upon waking the two mornings since the initial encounter (that I'm inclined to attribute to this mysterious visitor) and they are answers to the questions I called upon the Universe for answers to.

I actually have had a lucid, realtime OBE, and various other experiences that were almost and in between, some documented here, and others not. A more experienced APer told me that I do this regularly and just don't remember it. So I'm inclined to think that it makes sense that he was referring to the present incarnation rather than a presently discarnate element of myself. Most importantly, I appear to have opened the line of communication that I intended to.
Quote from: EscapeVelocity on May 08, 2017, 01:05:27
I don't think that the "Belief System Territories" are necessarily "bad" or undesirable places to end up in after you transition. Apparently most of us have been there many times. The point is to understand the reason for their purpose in the first place and why and when we should be ready to move beyond them as a waypoint in our spiritual evolution.

Think about it for a moment in school terms: In 1st grade I wanted to be in 6th grade- that was everything to me. In 6th grade I wanted to be in 7th, 8th or 9th grade...then 12th grade, then college. Wherever we are, we are satisfied only for a short time and then we feel the need to move on. As human beings, maybe this can be said as sentient beings, we all want and strive for the next level (of competence/understanding/wisdom)...I'm not sure it ever ends.

Monroe only described the BSTs as undesirable in that they were restricting our eventual spiritual evolution.

It makes sense in a way, that the majority of humankind ends up for awhile in the BSTs, before they move on. To me it fits neatly within the whole idea of freedom of choice.

I find a certain humor in this, and a dark humor at that, that by asking these questions we are finding ourselves in the very uncomfortable position of realizing (possibly for the first time in many lifetimes) that we are caught between the comfortable ignorance of our previous lives and the uncertain and frightening freedom of the infinite future we now realize lays before us.

Universal humor...n'yerk n'yerk!

Loving the Curly Stooge reference haha

Ooops, I left the "system" out of Belief System Territories. Meaning there? Hmm...

Thanks for the feedback. I guess I should have been a bit more specific, and also broken my question down into two separate inquiries: is it not a sort of arrogantly accepted dogma that we adhere to concerning spiritual "evolution"? I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm here attending Earth School for a reason, so clearly I see the value in the degree and am dedicated to my studies. But who is to say that I can impose my intent on others? I don't have a problem with a Muslim languishing in Paradise with his 76 virgins (hmm...sounds better than Earth School right about now...n'yerk n'yerk); should I impose on him my desire to be perfected through suffering rather than dipping my hand into a bowl full of cherries? But I guess you answered that indirectly by reminding me of how our boredom and curiosity (wanderlust?) inevitably pulls us back down into Space-Time where we end up learning whether we like it or not. So the other question would be...are "streets of gold" something that an Earth Graduate would walk? In other words, would Heaven make a good spot to chill once one has completed one's Earth courses? I suppose not, eh? Guess there are a lot of people to help, and Earth Graduates don't get degrees just to strum their harms with them. But having said that, can one still pop in and visit Jesus and the Saints every now and then? Maybe I don't have any questions at all. Maybe I just want to talk about these things...n'yerk n'yerk :-D
Quote from: EscapeVelocity on May 08, 2017, 00:34:24
In my experience, having had a few of these as I was getting back into pursuing the Art, I would put them in the "in-between" category; they may not be conscious AP experiences but they are Non-Physical experiences, which is how I look at all these experiences at least initially, especially if I am a bit confused by them at first. Many people experience these and I think they fit into a significant category that indicates you are making progress; they are a kind of "trial run", your subconscious mind providing you with a practice run of an AP, testing how you would deal with it, what your reactions might be. I think it is one of the early signs that indicates good progress, and it is one sign (for you) that your progress is somewhat dependent on some personal and subconscious factors that you may not have been aware of previously.

So, next time you are going to sleep, send a message of thanks and that you "would like more of the same" to your inner/higher self.

Also start to realize that your NP self will not be the self that is awake and reading this post right now; it will be the self that was in that AP dream from a few months ago. It is a "self" that will have limitations and will require a certain degree of nurturing and development.

Thank you for your thoughtful feedback; this confirms what I perceived about the experience when comparing it to both my "dreams" and the realtime OBE I described on this forum awhile back (your feedback was the best I received :-)) .;msg360766#msg360766
Can someone please answer these questions for me? Are "Belief Territories" (the various "Heavens", etc.) really quantifiably undesirable places to be once one crosses over? I mean, what if one believes in such a territory, yet is cognizant of the truth that the Belief Territory in question exists only due to a collective belief in it and that it is only one of the realms available to experience? Would one then be able to come and go from that territory as one pleased? Aren't these particular rings created for the purpose of refuge from the chaotic, unpredictable drudgery and misery of reincarnation (and even the Hell realms), and thus a good thing (at least for those who wish to avoid being reincarnated)? Why is it that Robert Monroe implied that these were undesireable places to be and thought of them as places people were trapped in and needed to be retrieved from? How are these rings of existence any less or more valid than any other? What's so wrong with choosing to go to Heaven, especially if one is interested in communing with the like-minded (and being in the presence of one's beloved deity)?
I had a dream of astral projection a few months ago. I was lying in bed in my childhood home, and lifted up out of my body and through my old bedroom window. I then experienced a loss of awareness, as I only remember reentering the house after awhile. Then I saw two men, who I identified as "agents" (classic CIA/Secret Service/Matrix-style agents); they appeared to be unable to see or hear me, and were both searching for something—one in the kitchen, rifling through a drawer, and another on the patio, beating a rug or something and examining the debris that fell from it, looking for something.

My question is: what do dreams of AP mean? Are they actual AP experiences? And does that question even make any sense?
In need of a special sort of guidance lately, while awake I called out to all positive entities in the Cosmos, requesting a visit from a "guide" or anyone who could help, and the next morning, while still in bed "asleep", I felt/"saw" a light from "above" shining just behind me as I lay on my side in bed facing the opposite direction. As I realized that the light was actually a person/entity, the entity (which felt like a very gentle, loving male) said (in a non-audible voice) "I'm always happy to find a Friend of the Dead", and I immediately "woke up" and turned over and around to see it/him (the light entity), and the light was gone/not there in the physical.

I Googled "Friend of the Dead", and all I could find was mention of the Egyptian goddess Nebthwt and the Egyptian god Anubis, both known for their retrieval work; I suppose I should have known that this was what he meant—I'm not sure why the first thing that came to mind was a medium (as in someone who regularly sees and/or communicates with ghosts, which I am not), especially seeing as though I generally have an inexplicable sense of taking part in retrievals even though I can't remember them.
Quote from: donkeykong on July 09, 2016, 20:38:55
Thank you for taking the time to bust these myths and add to our collective knowledge. Superb post :)

Thank you  :-)
Quote from: Bluefirephoenix on May 16, 2016, 08:53:57
There is actually proof that there is something going on. Precognition studies are sometimes done with dreams and AP type techniques. The results are that there is unexplainable accuracy in predicting events. In applied precognition groups  use both ERV,  projection and dreaming to make predictions.  Actually ERV covers anything the Monroe institute taught while Bob Monroe was still alive. Thats where it originated from.
Proof of AP and precognition all at once...facinating, Bluefirephoenix!
Quote from: Arian on April 22, 2016, 16:23:32
Great post. Especially the part about the negs: Using love on negs like bug spray on cockroaches. So true.
Thank you so much :-)
This is a post for beginners, by a beginner. Most of what I've learned has come from this forum, and the highly experienced Travelers here who selflessly dedicate their time to teaching others. Thank you to the members who have long ago mastered this practice yet who stick around to work as the hands of the Universe to spread their knowledge and wisdom. If I have misunderstood anything or concluded wrong, please correct me!

1. People Who Astrally Project Have Learned to Leave Their Bodies

Perhaps the biggest misconception, even among astral projectors themselves, is that learning to AP is the practice of attempting to leave one's body. The truth is that dreams take place in alternate realities and different dimensions. To get to those places, your consciousness must travel. For it to travel, it needs a vehicle. We don't remember most of these travels. The snippets of them we do sometimes remember are usually vague, fleeting, conceptually distorted. This so-called astral projection is simply a practice of remaining conscious as that journey begins, thereby remembering it clearly; it is not the natural process that changes, but the skill of remembering it.

2. Dreams are Just Organic Illusions Manufactured By the Brain

REM sleep is the scientific observation of brain activity during, but it is not an observation or explanation of the phenomenon. Dreams are not merely a product of the mind. These interdimensional travels do not take place in the regular physical world, though. That's a RTZ OBE (Real Time OBE), but they both involve one leaving one's body, and this happens naturally; sometimes you sleep in your astral body with it floating just above your physical body. Sometimes it gets up and invisibly moves about here in the physical world. Sometimes it phases into other dimensions. Sometimes one is aware and in conscious control, and other times one is not.

3. Astral Projection is Unnatural

Astral projection is a naturally evolved ability. Human beings are curious animals. And, like all curious animals, they learn things. Sometimes they learn how to remember things. Everyone is already having adventures and explorations and relationships of which they're unaware; we have another life – a double life, if I may – and our duel existence is a linear continuum by which we have a dual set of memories and skill sets. Strengthening the natural ability for lucidity and memory is no more unnatural than strengthening one's concentration or intent or any other skill, mental, spiritual, or physical.

4. You Are Vulnerable to Possession When You AP

The common misconception that one's body may be "stolen" or "possessed" by some discarnate entity while one is APing is based on the aforementioned misconception, that astral projectors have learned to leave their bodies. The physical body is not an empty shell while one is APing. That is, rather, the description of a corpse. A living person "out" in their astral body is just as connected to their physical body as when not having an OBE. Think of the astral cord as merely an extension cord. The physical and astral bodies are always separate, even when aligned. There's no difference when the astral "double" pops out of the physical. So we are no more vulnerable to attack while APing than during our waking life.

5. Negative Entities Are to Be Feared

I broke my fear barrier concerning so-called "negs" some time ago. Not through courage, but by knowledge. I've learned how much more powerful human souls are than these pesky little shadows. I know for a fact that there is nothing "out there" that can hurt us. The weird thing about it all turns out to be that the only power that these natural, antimatter based animals have to affect anyone – or anything – is to scare people...the reason being that this is merely their natural way of hunting their food, because they eat fear. They are harmless pests: annoying, gross, but not dangerous. No one has actually ever been harmed by one in any way, physically, mentally, or spiritually. So take a deep breath and relax. They don't even exist for me anymore because I used Love on them once the way one might spray for roaches.

6. OBEs, AP, LDs, Remote Viewing, and Conscious Projection Are Inherently Very Different Things Involving Radically Different Processes

This misunderstanding may have arisen due to the vastly different ways, methods, and degrees by which these sorts of things happen. Though categories may be helpful sometimes, in truth astral projection, OBEs, Lucid Dreaming, remote viewing, and conscious projection all fall under the umbrella of the same phenomenon. Such as with meditation; many techniques and many states. Both the physical realm and the Wider Reality are illusory projections within the Void (fuzzy 3D darkness), the only thing that really exists. Our environments change around us, but (our) awareness, First Child of the Void, is our one constant.
I'm just a novice myself, but I've seen through my eyes it has always happened naturally. The first time was during SP, after I'd fallen sleep with my phone in my hands and the lights on. And although everything looked crystal clear and exactly as it did before I'd shut my eyes, after an intial moment of passive confusion, I sensed that my eyes were closed because my body was fast asleep. I think that passivey observing your astral sight through your eyelids without any urge or intent to keep seeing or confirm that you're seeing will lengthen the periods of time that you can see. And, of course, as you mentioned, this is a major exit sign, so if you relax and only passively observe through your eyelids and just go with the flow maybe you'll have a better chance of getting out.
Haha yeah I know, the superhero costume comment was tongue in cheek :-D I know that this is no "feel good" field trip or ego fodder event. It just so happens that I like getting my hands dirty :wink: In physical life I've sucessfully worked with delusional, intractable, and even hostile individuals, those "hopeless cases" who most have given up on, so I know that these interpersonal experiences can at least in part form a foundation of training for the work to come. Plus, you never know whose belief system entails them being picked up by a grown man in camel toe tights (fingers crossed) :-P Ok, now let me stop yaking about it and go practice :roll:
I realize now that this was not RTZ. What confused me was how real it felt and how real everything looked. But upon further analysis of my perception at the time, I remember that it did not have the same feeling as an OBE. As vivid and real as everything I saw and heard looked and sounded, what I saw felt more like viewing a scene than being there (though it at least seemed that I was being observed in return). Plus, most importantly, what you said, no_leaf_clover: a RTZ OBE must begin with me just outside my physical body.