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This is how it works for me too. It is never 1 long projection for me. Each short projection is slightly different and lasts about 1-2 minutes. They also end abruptly. After about 6 or so projections it gets to a point where it's harder to wake up because I keep having false awakenings, the projections themselves get shorter and shorter too.

Man I think I know exactly what you're talking about. I have been practicing for years and can only achieve this state after waking up from a sleep/dream. I wake up and can move around while allowing my mind to keep dreaming non visually ( more like automatic inner dialog ). Trying to quiet on my mind or trying understand what I am thinking will make my thoughts change to my daily life consciousness and break the state.  I feel completely awake and can even open my eyes or roll over to get comfortable, this state took me a while to notice because it's almost exactly the same as being completely awake. Learning this also allowed me to continue a non lucid dream for hours.

Once I am comfortable I make my legs push through my bed and touch the carpet or rock back and forth with my whole body by just imaging it. I can also imagine holding an object in my hand if I wanted and actually feel it, I could imagine eating food in bed too which is fun (swallowing can be a problem). Once I get a feel for it I'll move away from my body. I have to really focus on the exit and not even think about myself in bed or I will snap back instantly, but if that happens I can just try again. It's so easy after a while. No vibrations, no sleep paralysis, no visual hypnagogia, no sudden noticeable shifts in awareness. Everything is non visual until I am next to my bed but over time the visuals kick right away or in about 3-5 seconds. It used to take 10+ seconds for visuals. When the OBE ends I instantly pop right back into that state and can have another one or open my eyes and be wide awake with great memory of everything that happened, my OBES like this are usually short (2-5 minutes each). I've been able to do this every morning for the past year or so.

If I want to go somewhere such as my childhood school I can just imagine projecting as usual and then touching the grass or concrete with my feet and feeling myself there until visuals to kick in.

But I just can't do this from an awake state during the day, I have practiced for years and have even gone so far as to buy a small pocket EEG machine recently. My brain totally skips alpha waves for some reason and goes straight into combination of Theta/Delta but it takes about an hour to start and is so delicate even being aware of it can break it. I have also had a few times while meditating where I suddenly shifted into a dream for a second or two, felt myself there and then snapped back. However, the EEG report shows I was wide awake and didn't have any increase in theta or delta.

I'll leave it there I'll post some more if anyone is interested.

I certainly know what you mean about the second one.

A lot of the time I roll over in bed and move around and go back to
sleep really quickly. It's not until I finally wake up that I recall my bed being
in the bathroom, my old room, at my childhood school or at a friends house.

If I intend to have a Lucid Dream or OBE It's always after a sleep cycle, I
seem to become aware and in a dream state laying in bed right before I
wake up. Dreaming of rolling over in bed and going back to sleep fools me
all the time.

So this may seem stupid. But what does he mean by "just grab the rope". Is this guy saying all you have to do is just reach up and grab it? as in, don't imagine it, don't "tactile image it" just reach up as you would in waking life, and grab it?

He means that once you are in this state to just "Start climbing a rope" to get out. If you try to
think about how to do this and what the rope is attached to then you will end up having problems.
You don't try to create things, you expect them to happen and your subconscious will create it for you.
I'm not sure about don't "tactile image it"

I usually just focus on the texture of my bed and the ground. I crawl along the floor focusing on all the
textures while moving to my wardrobe. I focus on that to keep my focus in this space and away from
my body. There isn't any vision at this state except for non visual awareness, for me anyway.

Climbing a rope or ladder is the same kind of thing. something to focus on. After climbing this rope or
ladder you will eventually start seeing your surroundings as you move away from your body.

Very cool read. I have had troubles shifting to this state from an awake state and only had
success after a sleep cycle just like what was mentioned. I have short obes every morning
now If I choose to have one. I decided to just figure it out myself through trial and error.
I really don't think this kind of thing can be taught through reading and it seems to me
that a lot of things that people talk about are constructs of the mind.

The "Switching Over" sounds right, I feel my body switch into a different one and my state of mind
changes within seconds. It feels like a ghost version of me comes loose and starts floating inside
my body. I can project pretty much straight away when this happens. When I separate
I can hear my physical mind racing and having a dialog with itself or someone while my awareness moves
away into a dead quiet space.

If I project too quick I have to wait about 10 seconds in a space without any vision while touching
textures in my room and focusing on them before my vision kicks in. If I wait a while I eventually see
behind closed eyelids or lose focus and snap out of the state.

I don't get any vibrations ever. I have also had little success with energy work. I'm not sure what to
make of this yet. I always keep an open mind about energy work but so far It hasn't helped me yet.
I have also used hemi-sync and similar cds, hypnosis cds and even had a hypnosis session without success.
None of these can put me in an altered state. I usually takes me over an hour to fall asleep. I have yet
to get into this state from a complete awake state.

I also seem to project into 3 different kinds of "realms". Using my house for example:

One very colorful and vivid with the sun shining and so much creativity and freedom.
Everyone is happy and helpful.

One dark in a sense that it's night time and really hard to do anything because it's too dark to
see. People and family members in this space act odd and creepy.

A hollow, quiet, desolate version of my house. No furniture in the house, just a floor,walls and windows.
Outside houses seem to be very very basic. A house, a lawn, and a letter box. There is a feeling of
emptiness in this space and what I can only describe as a quiet humming noise. Sometimes there is
a gentle rain outside. No one to be seen in this space.

Thanks for the reply Grey! To answer your questions:

Yes it is blurry sometimes apon phasing into a scene or after leaving the blackness in my room. It's like I have a blanket or towel on my head blocking my vision and I am partially seing through it. I pull it off my face and everything becomes clear again. It sounds odd by that's the action I do to make it clearer when I have this problem

I would say I have these type of experiences twice, maybe three, times a week. They only last about 10 mins each and kind of have a bit of luck involved to achieve. I try every morning while laying in bed. It seems like I am wide awake when I come back to the physicle, Like I am in two places at once but my focus is in my obe body. I have never been able to have these experiences on my first wave of sleep.

I had another short one this morning for about 2 minutes. I walked down the street to the park and was heading to a house on the other side. As I was heading there I saw another image overlaying my imagery. I thought this was the house I was walking to so I focused on this imagery. I found it out was my blanked on my bed and I was wide awake staring at it. My eyes must have slightly opened. I got up and started my day as normal.

Thanks for the reply. It's good to read what people with some experience have to say. I guess I have been treating my subconcious like another person and asking for results when It's just another part of my mind that I can use to help with my intentions. I have to say walking around my neighborhood is like fantasy and everything is artistic and interesting so i'm not complaining . It's just that walking around without any goals seems to be a bit of a waste since it's hard to achieve this state in the first place. I want to progress somehow.

It's strange you say that I could be "advancing into bilocation" and that no vibrations could come from experience. The thing is that I have only done this for a few months and my first ones still didn't have any vibrations. I'm not sure what to make of it.

I just wish I could do this every morning or when I am already awake. It seems a bit luck involved for me. One minute I'm aware and then the next I'm not. No hypnagogics or bombarding thoughts at all. It's hard to identify if I am there or not.

Anyway thanks for your reply!

Ok I will try and keep it quick. If anyone can answer some questions I have that would be great.

I am really unsure about the difference between a Lucid Dream and the Astral because of my experiences. Usually when I wake up early morning I settle back down and focus on writing a number on a chalkboard then rubbing it out and then writing the next one. I do this because if I don't think of something and blank my mind I lose awareness completely. Eventually the visualisation becomes real. I can then think of nothing and find myself half floating on my bed. I have no vibrations at all. I have even felt myself morph from my physicle body into this body and then float. No vibrations or anything. I then gently rock my body awareness which seems effortless and then peel myself away from my bed.

When I am out it's always black. I have to exit my room first before I can see anything. I usually head straight outside because it is just incredible. Most of the time it doesn't even look like my backyard and it's always different. Sunny and green most of the time. I have poor eyesight in the physicle but here it's crystal clear and it blows my mind. This is where I am lost. When I go outside my dogs don't look like my dogs, my backyard is different, people don't make sense when I talk to them, things change appearance but keep the same structure if I look away and then look back. My whole neighborhood is an alice in wonderland experience. It feels created by me and very subconcious. After about 2 minutes everything stops and fades away BUT I am back to where I was before floating above my body. I always thought I woke up when this happened but found out I can leave my body over and over, I did this 7 times this morning and was out for about 15 mins total! my record! If I don't leave my body a dream tends to phase around me and drop me in there.

I also looked at pictures on the wall and thought of a fantasy picture I have on my computer desktop. It appeared on the wall and I walked into it. I then phased into the picture! It wasn't excactly like the picture but pretty darn close! A world created by me to explore!

So my questions:

Am I dreaming or is this a lower level projection? It feels very real but dream-like at the same time. I have to leave my body first and it's not quick and easy. I have to start with my legs and carefully peel myself away otherwise I may tense up and wake myself.

I have felt myself morph into another body but had no vibrations. I also have gotten nowhere with the NEW methods because I can't feel anything. Could it be related?
I wanted to be able to raise and store energy for more vivid dreams and prolonged experiences but have hit a brick wall as far as energy work goes. I can really feel my awareness well but don't get any feelings when moving my awarness around part of my body.

I have asked to talk to my inner voice. A voice of someone I know, like a friend, will start talking to me in my mind but won't make any sense. How do I talk to MY subconcious or higher self. I am hoping for a more real conversation with someone who can help me with my experiences. Someone like a guide or a part of me who can help.

If this is a lucid dream how can I make it an Astral Experience? Falling back and saying take me to the astral results in me floating above my body again.
If it's an Astral Experience how can I make it more real. Real enough to have a conversation with someone and perhaps learn a thing or two.

Thanks!

Thanks for the replies. Another big post but very interesting

It's been about a month since I wrote that post and have only really had time to practice before bed time and in the morning. I have had some very interesting lucid and non lucid dreams now and then. I have had some Non-lucid dreams about laying in bed trying to have an obe and not realising it's a dream. I can't seem to have a lucid dream for the first wave of sleep. It only happens in the morning. An they only last about 2 minutes which is upsetting.

Once by mistake I snapped back into awareness but this time I felt my body asleep and was using a different pair of legs. My top half was easy to move around but my top half was stuck. I played around with my legs for a minute to get the feel of it. Soon whole body was loose and I was able to move around. I pushed my legs though the bed and then my upper body. I felt myself falling though everything was black. I fell for about 30 seconds and heard my head rushing like a jet engine and I visioned myself filling up with energy which made me feel warm and full of light. All of a sudden I'm glaring at the sun in the sky. I look down at the red sand at my feet and felt myself get morphed in. It was so awesome. It was very dreamlike though and things where crystal clear for about a minute then all over the place afterwards. It looked like the Nevada Desert and there was some show taking place with some caravans and cars driving towards it. I have never been to a place like this since I'm from Australia. I said hi to a dream character and was cursed at and called some vile name I won't mention.

I have had another time this happened and I moved from my bed and felt the floor. It seemed very physicle, I couldn't see anything. I moved to where my door sould be and couldn't walk though it. I opened the door, walked out and started to see my house. My family members I saw in this state where acting like lucid dream characters and where freaking out that I was "invisible" and I could touch them and they would feel it. They where wearing different clothes than what they where really wearing. I won't go on for much longer 

I believe this is the 3d blackness that I am feeling and it is awesome but I can't seem to get to this state without some luck. I think I am very close and can trigger lucid dreams from this state at least. I need to practice to get into this state but I always lose awareness. Thanks for reading!

Hello everyone. I have been reading this forum for the last few weeks and it is good to be in a place with other likeminded people. This is my first post  I am writing this in the hope of getting some feedback or ways to help with my problem. I do have some results, But they are completely random. The first half of the post is what I want some help with, and the rest are my results and lucid dreams if you wish to read them.

When I first started practicing OBE techniques a few months ago I couldn't even relax or clear my mind from random thoughts. I would last about 10 seconds of no thoughts before something will pop up. Something usually related to my awaking life. Eventually some nonsensical stuff that would make my mind lose awareness would come up and I would notice this and jerk out of it uncontrollably. Two or three of these and I was out, fast asleep.

Over time I have been practicing by clearing my mind and relaxing. Over time I have been able to get really good at this and can do it without even trying. It is sort of becoming a problem because I can maintain this quiet mind for a long time for about an hour but get not images or
thoughts like I used to. I don't know if this is good or bad. I don't "try" at all to not think of anything. The only imagery I get is when I consciously try and see something but it seems very dim. One night I sat upwards and did this and it lasted over 4 hours and just last night I laid down and had the same experience. Eventually I will lose awareness but that is before I feel or see any sensations. I enjoy this quietness and it doesn't bother me at all. I don't get impatient, it's strange. Has anyone has similar issues? What did you do to help or get something going?

Also, I also have never had sleep paralysis yet but my body does feel numb because I don't move it for ages. It also itches after about 30 mins. The itches are intense, like when your nostrils tickle and make your eyes water. I have to scratch, sometimes I do this without even thinking it and my arm feels like jelly, but it's not paralysed. I guess I have mastered the no thought state but I have hit a dead end. I have tried some rope or stair climbing/falling but I don't feel anything. Nothing like the lucid dreams I had by mistake (read below if you want to hear about it). I try to "see" images and it seems to work but nothing vivid like a lucid dream. I always seem to have awareness on my physical body and it doesn't want to let go unless I lose awareness. Sometimes I get to a point where I don't see images by my mind starts "thinking" about "stuff" in my brain but my awarenes is behind my closed eyelids. It makes no sense when I try and take notice of it.

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Now for the interesting and completely random occurrence stuff, if you wish to read. They have happened over about 1 month by mistake and out of nowhere. I wish to have more of these. I have read about these WILDS and phasing, these states are absolutely REAL. I believe I was in
focus 2 according to Frank Kepple.

One night I sat up in bed and just cleared my mind. It must have been for about 2 hours and then I felt I had tried enough so I laid down again and this no-thought thing seemed to stick. I eventually lost awareness and came back. I had no thoughts for what seemed about 20 or so minutes then I realized something strange. My arm was hanging off the edge of a gap in the middle of my bed, the bed was split in half but it was too dark to see. I could feel the coldness coming from the concrete floor which doesn't exist (I have a carpet). It realized I was feeling the coldness for ages but I never "clicked". I tried to gently move and felt some tiny vibrations. Without any effort at all I knew I was lucid dreaming or OBE. I stood up and walked around my house and was very aware, I checked the time, (9:35am which was way off) and then walked to my parent's room. They were talking on a bed that was different. It had pure white cloth and pillows and they were talking to each other. I walked in the room and they where chuckling and noticed me so they tried to engage in a conversation with me. I walked out of the room thinking "geez they aren't meant to see me" and my dad said in a laughing voice "where are you going?, don't run off, come talk to me". I decided to teleport to the roof of the house opposite side of the street, I went there instantly. I saw the rooftops and then everything faded out and I was back on my bed. It lasted about 1 minute.

Later that night I became aware out of nowhere after losing awareness. I saw the image appear then I tried to feel my awareness and was blown away that I was "there". I was there and in the back of my mind I knew I was on my bed still. It felt so real. I was blown away by the detail and vividness right from the start. I was at my school. I walked down a hallway to the outdoor basketball court. Along the way I walked past someone from my class and he said hi and I said hi back. I was walking one way and he was walking the other. It was just like the old days of high school. What a top bloke. I walked to the high school area and notice that the undercover area leading to it no longer had a roof and was made of stone-henge-like pillars. One wasn't complete. Like it was cut in half and floating in the air, I floated up to it and felt it's concrete texture which felt so real. I asked to talk to my subconscious or a guide to let them know that I want to experince these states more. A young boy in a ninja outfit appeared near me. He just stared at me through his ninja mask. I kind of sensed this was a lucid dream and I created him, but don't know why it was a boy in a ninja costume. I had a look to see what was happening on the school oval and then the dream faded out. It lasted about 1 minute like the last one. It was over so quick, what a bummer.

The other two aren't much to explain but they felt so real it was unbelievable. Out of nowhere I became aware again and started climbing the stairs of my friends house and I could feel my calves tensing as I climbed the stairs (sounds a lot like Robert Bruce's techniques). It was completely black so I found his leather couch and sat down to try and see. I felt the texture of the carpet, the leather couch and its heat. The detail was so accurate. The leather has small creases in its texture which I could feel and sense. It was like I was really there. I still couldn't see anything. After about 30 seconds I was back in my bed.

Thanks for reading. I can't explain this type of stuff without writing heaps. I have had a few other things happen but that will do
for now. I might write more later