Messages

Hi all

Just thought I would present you with this important short film of Saddam if you have not already seen it. Tell me what you think, is it real?

http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/real_hussein

Good journeys all

Mobius[8]

Hi Adrian

I have tried everything on my own computer & there is definately no
way I can get on to Astral forums now.I am writing this one from my
mother in laws computer which is a Packard bell,has 128 ram,20 gig HD &
a pentium 4 processor & still has problems.Looks like I will be down to
one post a week or fortnight now depending on when we visit my in-laws.

I don't seem to have a problem with sites as big as this & Astral Society
is set up pretty much the same as this & is like the old Astral Pulse forum
of about a week ago,fast & no waiting around.So it looks like I'll have to
wait until I can get a computer with above 128 ram,20 gig hd & faster than
a pentium 4 to be able to use the site like I did a week ago.

Anyway,I'll check in every week or 2 to see whats going on.

All the best on your journeys

Mobius

Hi everyone!

For anyone who hasn't allready had a look at the "Gateway,Monroe" topic,this is in a way related to that as I pinched the term "the park,reception centre,focus 27" off monroe,but it is really just his
description/term/label for a place I suspect a lot of people have
been to,but just have different names for.

For those who have not read his books,he talks about a place he
termed "the park" which is achievable from what he terms "focus 27"
(a level of the astral plane).It's a reception centre for the
afterlife,but supposedly is only accessable for people who realize
they are dead,as opposed to being so traumatized by their own death
or shocked that they continue to live out their lives in familiar
surroundings & routines,unaware.

In Bruce Moens book "voyages into the unknown" he elaborates on the
park idea a bit.In one part he descibes it as a fairly modern park,
hugely expansive with sidewalks & trees & lush grass lawns.

I have been to a place myself that matches these discriptions very
accurately while OBE,ing,about 4 times now & every time without the
use of Hemi- sync,focus 27 tapes.Two before ever using the tapes,so
I know it wasn't the tapes that were directly responsible.

So one of the questions I would like to ask anyone who has had OBE's
is have you ever been to a place like this in your astral travels?
A place that for me anyway was like this description;manicured lawns
& trees,very tidy,very happy bright place,lots of people just
walking or chatting or lying around on seats & lawns,plus some stone
buildings,eg marble & sandstone?

There is many more aspects to this idea,but I,m short of time at the moment & will continue more soon.

All the best on your journeys

Mobius

I just wanted to know if the live astral chat on the homepage is
still operational?When I first joined there was no problem,just
a click on the chat client button,but now I just get a cream coloured
background which stays blank.Has it been replaced with the
Astral chat forum? or is it something on my computer that is
stopping me from logging onto it?

Thanks for any help

Mobius

G,day everyone!

I thought I would post this presentation here although it is a
fairly science based question & topic.
I,m forwarding it on from a guy in USA called Ken Amick,an OBE,er
who has some considerable experience.While Ken has a lot more
experience than I,he was a bit gobsmacked at us humans & the
things we get up to by the looks of this presentation.

While my studies are in science it's not ELECTRO-MAGNETICS!
I forwarded this presentation of slides(on power point I think)
to my lecturers at Queensland University of Technology to have a
look at & we are still talking about it!
So Frank & Adrian & anyone else who has some experience with this or
knows about it,can you give it a bit of analysis & maybe with all
heads together we might tell if this is real or what?!!!!!

The site is "The Tom Bearden site"

http://www.cheniere.org/briefings/porthole/synopsis.htm

Thanks if anyone can give some input on this,as it seems very
important if it's true.

Good journeys

Mobius

Hi again all,I,d just like to ask about the first moments at the
beginning of the OBE.Over the past year or so I,ve been having an
occasional problem where as soon as I close my eyes ( while preparing
for sleep ) I fall into an OBE & seem to just go in fast forward
away from my body at an uncontrollable rate.This is very annoying
& I have to either lay there for a while with my eyes open or get up
for a while to stop it, anyone got any ideas as to whats going on ?

By the way, love your site Robert & your books also, hope I get the chance to see you if your doing live speaking here in Australia.

Mobius

Hi everyone, I,m a newbie to this list & found it via posts on
another OBE site , Monroes & voyagers.Seen a couple of names from that list, but like myself, others could be under another name.
I will give you a brief run down on my involvement in the OBE scene.
I live in Brisbane,Queensland,Australia & have been having OBE,s
since I was about 6 years old, but back then & up until about 16
I fought desperately to keep it out of my life as there was not that
much information available to me then & it scared hell out of me
( any OBE,ers know what I,m talking about, that initial fear that
maybe I,m dying or maybe I wont be able to get back in, & then in
the beginning you scramble like hell to get back in your body ).
By the time I reached 16 I had met some people who had similiar
experiences & got some books & tapes, ever since I,ve been on an
incredible life journey.
Anyway good to see more of us communicating & look forward to reading & replying to future posts.

Mobius >

Hi guys

This is a topic that interested me a couple of years ago. Not because I was seeing 11:11 everywhere. But because I was following up some numerology performed on me & 11:11 happened to be in my date of birth.

So I've got two explanations for you here. One metaphysical & one science.

The metaphysical explanations can be found at these two links.

http://www.nvisible.com/1111/1111Doorway.html

http://www.angelscribe.com/1111.html

Some really interesting stuff in those two links.

The other explanation is to do with plain science & imagery.

The simple answer here is : Get a clock that isn't digital & I bet you wont be noticing numbers like 11:11, 10:10,12:12.1:11,2:22,3:33 etc. These images just tend to stick in your brain longer than times that are not all of the same number.[]

Mobius[8]

Hehe, nah, it's a total joke. The name of the makers of this film are in the titles when the link opens & after the movie has played.

Just a bit of fun.

Mobius[8][]

Hi all

Hahaaaaaaa!!!!!! Squeek.Tis quite funny your discomfort at slight mistakes in grammar. Shows how pedantic this subject really is. First it was the spelling, now it is the grammar. Next it will be syntax.

I took the liberty of writing my posts in a word document & then pasted them in here. After using the spell check, I re-worded the posts & removed something from here & there. So my question is, why pick on poor ol "used to" (use to)? .

What about it's (its) or don't (dont) or else's (elses) or perogative (prerogative) or heiroglyphs (hieroglyphs) or hey, I've got a good one! I spelled "Squeek" wrong (squeak), oops! But then again, so did you. You chose a mispronunciation as your name, cool.

Since we are going to get pedantic about the subject. What is with your lack of understanding of how nouns work? Why do you spell "English" as english?. Would you do the same for america (America)? []

quote by squeek

"This problem lies in proper use of english"

Dont you mean the proper use of american?[]

I noticed that you decided to use the spell check on your post after your first couple of entries. So why the change now?

Quote

"Speaking of which, the problem did not originate in the United States, the problem originated in the Internet". I wonder who invented the Internet?

You are right however, that this is not a problem that is unique to America. I just about have to run my little sisters emails through an online translator to decipher what they are saying, so I know its not unique to Americans. I just found it ironic, that an American would get so wound up by everyone else's use of the English language.[]

Watt is the point anyway? Wood you mined if I rote like this, but the spell cheque was run threw it and found no mistakes? [] Wood that make it write?[]

But hey, I am glad to see another American (or anyone ) say that they that dont have a gun. But I guess that's not to say you dont want one, can't afford one or dont support their use in resolving conflicts (this is exciting, maybe I should dig up the old gun debate post again to see how it ranks now that the Iraq war is over). Lesson learned there Wizeguy. Most is similar to saying the majority. We can't pretend to speak for everyone (politicians & board of directors excluded). They only need 51% of people agreeing & that is a majority. Who cares about what the other 49% have to say, they didn't win.

Edited by Mobius for maximum spell check devastation.[8D]
Good journeys all

Mobius[8]

Hi all

The AO, you are absolutely right about free writing with it's lack of paragraphs. Some people just dont feel the need to break their writing up into blocks of sentences & I believe that is their perogative.

While I agree with those who say they find it difficult to read when people write like that & often skip the message altogether. It's really just my own lack of adaptability that has stopped me from paying attention to something that is there. Because it's not what I am used to, or it's not the way I have learned it myself.

After examining some of these posts in question. I find that most of the spelling "mistakes" are really just people who have spelled the word phonetically. That is, they have spelled the word as it sounds.

I gather the reason the word "lose", doesn't get spelled like "looze" or "looz", is because the people that are spelling like this, have had at least "some" education & know that the word contains an "s" & not a "Z", so they spell it "loose".

Wyzeguy?!!!! *Mobius rubs his eyes & read Wyzeguys post again*. Are you a real American? Or are you an immigrant? I thought that putting down your own country was a right that was reserved for us Australians, the British & Canadians. Don't tell me you have been infected!

I am honestly curious about this, so can an American please answer my question in my last post? Do you guys only have an "American" spell check in your word documents? Or is there provision for "English" spelling in there?

Wizeguy, I am also surprised to see your reaction to guns, being an American & all. Not that it has anything to do with this subject, but for yours & anyone elses information. We had a great gun debate on this site about a year ago. I was one of the few who were against guns & the majority of members (mainly Americans) were pro gun.Peaceful Warrior was the main backer of the need for every peace loving individual to stock up on an arsenal of weapons. Check it out, twas quite entertaining, however, war won the day against peace & I walked away with my tail between my legs.[B)]

A few examples of the difference between American spelling & English spelling.

English spelling American spelling
authorise authorize
aluminium aluminum
organisation organization
criticise criticize
centre center
metre ( as in kilometre) meter
wharfe wharf
colour color
axe ax
arse  butt (lol)

Ok, good journeys all

Mobius[8]

Hello all

It's been a long time since I have been here & out of all the posts I could have read this is the one that caught my attention. A strange thing on this type of forum, since everything to do with the main subject of this forum/site (OBE's & AP's etc)being very abstract & imprecise things in themselves. Semantics, is just as futile a subject there as it is here on the physical.

You can quite easily change yourself, but you can rarely change others.Unless they want it.

Squeek, I thank you for bringing up the difference between "loose" & "lose". That is something that really annoys me & it's funny that in this world of ever increasing acronym & abbreviation usage, that people actually make the word "lose" longer! by spelling it "loose". Hell, they could have saved themselves an "o"! []

I also thank you squeek, for showing me that this is not just an American thing. As it is Americans I most often see spelling it this way.

However, as you would know, being either a teacher or journalist or one in training. The "English" language has changed so much since it was first used as a written language & we don't exactly walk around saying "Egad, thoust hath smite me!" anymore do we?

If anyone should be complaining about the use of the "English" language, it should be the English. When you say that people should take the time to learn the "correct" way of writing "English". Do you mean the American way of writing "English"? As it is the USA who has already done away with the "correct" way of spelling a word in the "English" language & decided it would use it's own way of spelling things.

Here in Australian schools & Universities, when you type something in a word document,we/they have the choice of using an "English", "Australian English" or "American English" spell check. Just out of curiosity, do Americans only have an "American" spell check?[]

I pity newcomers to the "English" languange, as they have to learn the proper meaning of many words that all sound similar e.g. where, wear, we're & hear,here & there,their, they're, all meaning different things, but all sounding the same. A child born into the language already understands the meaning & only have to use the spell check to correct themselves once something has been written. Never needing to really know the correct way, unless, they choose a job that requires them to type or write without the aid of a spell check.

I remember my Grandfather saying to me (because of his lack of understanding at the time). "What is the use of writing on a computer, as opposed to a type writer? Look at all the complications added to what should be a simple task. You have your keyboard & about a hundred extra tools to supposedly help you in writng a letter!"

He would have scoffed at his great grandfather saying to him "what do you need a contraption (a typewriter) to push letters onto a page for you? When you can just write it with your hand?"

Are we looking at ourselves now, in this time, as resistant to change as our predecessors were? Fast forward the button of time a few hundred years & do we think we will still be using keyboards? I'm sure if everything isn't by that stage mind controlled, it will be at least voice & motion controlled, largely doing away with our need to write "anything" correctly. I wonder if the ancient Egyptians scolded each other for leaving the tail feather off a dove in their heiroglyphs? Or do the Chinese concern themselves with someone not drawing a line a smidgin longer than it should be?

Squeek I am wholeheartedly with you on the lack of some peoples spelling abilities (people who do not use english as their first language are exempt),grammar & syntax. But I wonder, are we just people resistant to change?

Good journeys all

Mobius[8]

Hello All

Been a looooooooong time since I've been in here. Good to see some old faces around the traps still. But also funny to see the same ol same ol baseless "oh what crap, you people can't do this stuff". Without reading a single author on this subject, let alone the guy who's site this is,aha........aha ha........oops, sorry guys, can't hold it in any longer ............................................................poo hahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the entertainment Xvirus. What has happened to the calibre of the skeptics these days?

Someone point the man to some decent skeptic sites for some good arguements against OBE's existence, then we can get down to some serious discussion, allllllllllllllrighty?

Good journeys all

Mobius[8][]

>Question: If you could live forever, would you and
>why? Answer: "I would not live forever, because we
>should not live forever, because if we were supposed
>to live forever, then we would live forever, but we
>cannot live forever, which is why I would not live
>forever," --Miss Alabama in the 1994 Miss USA contest.
>``````````````````````````````````
>"Whenever I watch TV and see those poor starving kids
>all over the world, I can't help but cry. I mean I'd
>love to be skinny like that, but not with all those
>flies and death and stuff." --Mariah Carey
>````````````
>"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very
>important part of your life," --Brooke Shields, during
>an interview to become Spokesperson for federal
>anti-smoking campaign.
>`````````````````````````````````````````````````
>"I've never had major knee surgery on any other part
>of my body," --Winston Bennett, University of Kentucky
>basketball forward.
>`````````````````````````````````````````````
>"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the
>lowest crime rates in the country," --Mayor Marion
>Barry, Washington, DC.
>`````````````````````````````
>"I'm not going to have some reporters pawing through
>our papers. We are the president." --Hillary Clinton
>commenting on the release of subpoenaed documents.
>````````````````````````````````````````````````````
>"That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death
>by a jackass, and I'm just the one to do it," --A
>congressional candidate in Texas.
>````````````````````````````
>"I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great
>country away from them. There were great numbers of
>people who needed new land, and the Indians were
>selfishly trying to keep it for themselves." --John
>Wayne
>```````````
>"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
>--Philadelphia Phillies manager, Danny Ozark
>``````````````````````````````````
>"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment.
>It's the impurities in our air and water that are
>doing it." --Al Gore, Vice President
>```````````````````
>"I love California. I practically grew up in Phoenix."
>--Dan Quayle ``````````
>" It's no exaggeration to say that the undecideds
>could go one way or another" --George Bush, US
>President
>``````````````````````
>"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean
>air do we need?" --Lee Iacocca
>```````````
>"I was provided with additional input that was
>radically different from the truth. I assisted in
>furthering that version." --Colonel Oliver North, from
>his Iran-Contra testimony.
>`````````````````````````````````````````
>"The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A
>genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." --Joe Theisman,
>NFL football quarterback & sports analyst.
>````````````````````````````````````````````
>"We don't necessarily discriminate. We simply exclude
>certain types of people." --Colonel Gerald Wellman,
>ROTC Instructor.
>`````````````````````````````````
>"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
>--Bill Clinton, President ``````````````````
>"We are ready for an unforeseen event that may or may
>not occur." --Al Gore, VP
>``````````
>"Traditionally, most of Australia's imports come from
>overseas." --Keppel Enderbery
>```````````````
>"Your food stamps will be stopped effective March 1992
>because we received notice that you passed away. May
>God bless you. You may reapply if there is a change in
>your circumstances." --Department of Social Services,
>Greenville, South Carolina
>````````````````````````````````````````````
>"If somebody has a bad heart, they can plug this jack
>in at night as they go to bed and it will monitor
>their heart throughout the night. And the next
>morning, when they wake up dead, there'll be a
>record." --Mark S. Fowler, FCC Chairman
>````````````````````````

Mobius[8]


 

WAR CRIMES
A Report on United States War Crimes Against Iraq to the Commission of Inquiry for the International War Crimes Tribunal

http://www.deoxy.org/wc/wc-toc.htm

Mobius

Hey there Davidg

Thanks for clearing that up for me about the Sirius or the Pleidians. I'm not sure where I read about that connection, but it was something to do with Masons beliefs of origins etc. If I remember where I read it, I'll post you, or if I come across it again. But then again, it might be like you say, a book written about Freemasons, but not BY a freemason.

Does Freemasonry have a common concept/belief around the globe? Or do they all have their own interpretations?

Good journeys

Mobius

Hi all

Thanks for the links Enderwiggan, most excellent.To me, the U.S, Iraq,whoever is made up of 90% people just trying to get on with life as happy & peacefully as possible & then there's the other 10%, made up of the wealthy elite who tell politicians what they should do & try to convince those less fortunate that their interests are the interests of the majority on this little blue ball called earth.It seems that all morals can be thrown out the window once enough money is added to the equation.

Adrian,I saw that report as well & had to wince hearing my own primeminister agree with it & then blast Nelson Mandela for being misinformed after he criticized the U.S over something that is obvious to the world, sheeeesh.

I saw another interview with Tony Blair, where he said something like "After we finish with Saddam, we should quickly move to resolve the nuclear issue with North Korea".

Then, I saw a report in the paper saying one of Saddams henchmen has jumped ship & told of numerous storage areas for biological weapons as well as missiles (whether that is true & they exist at all is another matter), all of which were supplied by North Korea.

It, seems a little odd that Korea is being cast aside as the next one on the hitlist, when it's known by the U.S & others that they are a supplier, unlike Iraq, who are trying to buy these weapons. Doesn't it make more sense to cut off the supplier, as they do with drug dealers etc. instead of the drug abuser?

I can't understand why Iraq evens gets a mention when it comes to ICBM's. In the sixties, the Cuban missile incident showed a closer reality for the use of ICBM's, but if ICBM's are so good at travelling intercontinentally, why did they need them so close to the U.S? I'm not sure if I've ever heard of ANYONE actually testing an ICBM over the distance required to assume mutually assured destruction.These things are 5 storeys tall & were obvious in photo's from the sixties. With satelite technology these days, they STILL can't show the way for UN inspectors.

They can't even get cruise missiles to hit with any sort of consistent accuracy, let alone risk sending a warhead on an ICBM over hundreds of other countries............. "whoops, sorry pakistan or china, that was an accident, we'll get the next one on target".

The only "safe" (can't believe I'm saying that)way of using a nuclear device, is from inside of the borders of the country to be attacked. It really is saber rattling.

Virtually every puppet leader set up by the CIA has turned on the U.S & not always for their own greed.So who's to say that if Saddam DOES go into exile or is killed, that the new puppet wont turn on the U.S as well, once they are dug in enough?

I wonder what would happen if someone shot Saddam & then set all the oil fields on fire? Would we stop to wonder about the biological/chemical/nuclear weapons then? And who might deploy them? Nahhhhhh, just save the oil!

Peace & positivity please you politicians. Or just send your kids to the front line & we'll all be behind you.

Mobius

Hey Enderwiggan

I was actually wondering whether you & Clandestino are on the same mailing list I'm on called "VML", as the "your happy & you know it" & the "patriotic posters" were posted there about 2 or 3 days before you posted them here, either that, or it's a small world. I did enjoy those posters though.

After I saw those ones, I searched for ones on my own primeminister here in Oz, but turned up nothing. Something like a small lap dog or a rendition of that old looney tunes cartoon, where the little yappy dog follows around this big brute of a dog, doting & agreeing with every word & motion. Except, the little yappy dog (my primeminister)doesn't end up being the top dog, as he is only the toe jam in the big dogs nails.

Although I'm against war, I couldn't see myself using the same negative energy & protesting against war, but I will support peace & rally for it's cause any day.

Some good links there from Mj12 as well.
A quote from the link

"What is missing from the demand and supply argument is the concept of depletion. Depletion is the gradual exhaustion of a natural resource through consumption. The concept of depletion has tremendous implications for our future world that could play havoc with world economies and ultimately, war or peace."

Regardless of what the fuel source, the trade of the day etc. I can't help but feeling it is money itself, that is the biggest killer & there can NEVER have equality while it exists. Talents, abilities, productivity, progress are all squandered & destroyed in the name of money. It only serves as a bench mark for us competitive humans to dream of & try to attain ourselves & be as wealthy as the top 10 in the world. Meanwhile, the cost of this acheivement, has been a slow & erroneous destruction of our planet to supply that drive for the top.

Good journeys all

Mobius

Quote

"I still think Saddam's not worth fighting"

I agree, there's a lot of other dictators, oppressors that are far worse than Saddam, but hey, Somalia & Zimbabwe don't have anything worth sending aircraft carriers, battleships, stealth bombers etc for.

Quote
"Why should we waste expensive weapons on him?"

How else do the armament companies show off their wares & attract new customers, without giving potential buyers a demonstration via war, of how effective their product is? It was worked out that during the Gulf war (round 1) that it cost the U.S government 2% of it's yearly budget, so war could be waged for years without too much of a dent in the budget.

Quote

"If we don't fight and win this war, oil prices are going to rise dramatically over the next few years, and there is going to be tremendous suffering as a result".

Oil is not an infinite fuel source & has to go sooner or later.Most people in 3rd world countries don't have thirsty V8 motors to push along, in fact, most of them don't have a vehicle, so what difference does oil make to them?

The only reason that countries like France, Germany & Russia (as BD hugh pointed out with his links)are against the war, are their own oil interests & trade with Iraq. So once they are payed off, they will quickly forget their "moral" stance on the U.S war against Iraq.

Besides, Europe didn't band together & form the Euro for no reason. It was/is a direct attempt to weaken the U.S dollar/strengthen their own resource based economies, so I can't see them wanting the U.S to get ahead.

Quote

"Let's be clear: Saddam Hussein is a fascist monster who has murdered thousands of his own people"

I agree, but so has various American presidents. History is written by the winners & Saddam doesn't have control over most of the worlds media.You just don't hear about it when it's on your own soil.

The Roman empire had Imperialist tendencies too & when you race around the globe taking peoples livelihood away from them, to make your own lifestyle better, it only makes many an enemy you need to watch & it makes the target so much easier for your enemy, because they KNOW who has the money & where they should concentrate their efforts.Of cousre the empire will attack if it's homeland is attacked, but what came first, the chicken or the egg? Who attacked who first?

Oil is a short term fuel source, so how is America & it's allies going to improve the lives of 3rd world countries, by ensuring 1st world countries have a better lifestyle? We are at the end of oils run in history, so far I havn't seen 3rd world countries benefiting when it's been the best of circumstances as far as oil supplies go, so how is it going to improve, when wars need to be waged to secure a foreign countries lifestyle & a dwindling supply of oil?

Men & Women from the age of 30 onwards,in first world countries have billions of dollars in investments through superanuation & shares in America. As they watch their bank accounts dwindle as shares plummet, they will suddenly warm to the idea of war & forget about how much harder those in 3rd world countries are doing it, even if it IS for the short term & largely for the benefit of the baby boomer generation.

Peace all

Mobius

Hi PW

Hehe, good to see the lack of materialism. Many people I know are very concerned with how others see them & live way beyond their means so as to create the impression (for others) that they are successful, or doing well for themselves,often to the point of bankrupting themselves & facing repossession.

Strange you should bring this topic up, as I'm presently looking for a new car (not brand new), but have been eyeing off the iraq ordeal as fuel prices have steadily increased.

The thing is, I've been driving my beloved little 4cylinder mazda 323, 83 model (oh man, I'm livin in the past,hehe) for about 10 years now, which has 360,000 kilometers on the clock. Because of a back injury I have, my little car is killing me to drive & is a manual which doesn't help. So I have been trying out various other 4 cylinder cars, one of which was a ford focus,lol.

With this Iraq thing & the public opinion worldwide waning on the prospects of war. I wonder if the bean counters are eyeing off their patents on other fuel sources & having discussions on whether it's time to let oil stay with the fossils & make the transition into a new energy source. It has to happen one day & the U.S passed it's peak production of oil in the 80's, that's why it's so important for the oil barons to secure iraq's oil supply, which is the only country yet to experience it's peak production.

Well, better get back to lookin for cars, nooooooooooooooooooo.

Good Journeys

Mobius

All I know, though, is: Guns are not the problem, people are. And Americans in particular have one big problem: they are freakin PARANOID.

5. If the Americans keep guns AND their society/state cannot protect them AND it doesn't want to go away...are the Americans NOT keeping their guns to protect themselves against an incomptetent, self-serving STATE?

This talk of needing protection from the state seems to be a uniquely American thing & is definately paranoia, as I don't see other gun entusiasts around the world using this as an excuse for NEEDING to have guns. How does the rest of the world defend themselves against their own governments in those countries with no a no gun policy? Last time I looked, it was not politicians & businessmen being convicted of gun deaths or crimes using guns, it is our fellow man. When was the last time you needed your gun against a politician, businessman, policeman etc? Did your parents grandparents or great grandparents need them to fight off hoards of politicians with guns trying to tell people what they should do?


Americans seem to use this paranoic excuse that the state is gonna get them if they don't have Charlton Hestons gun collection. Or, they need protection from their fellow man because the state isn't doing anything about it or "cannot protect them". Gee, I wonder why? Who has the greater population? The police or civilians? So if those simple mathematics makes it past the test of logic, wouldn't it be reasonable to admit that it's NOT the states fault, it's the peoples, who either vote for politicians, phone in on war polls encouraging attacks on countries of who they know little about (even though there is STILL no proof & the amount of deaths returned has been twice that of september 11), & admit that large armament manufacturers have done an excellent job in their ongoing sales/brainwashing plan to make Americans think they NEED guns.

But don't take my word for it, have a look for yourselves at Israel & palestine. Hundreds of billions of dollars in military aid has done what for the peace process over there? $80 Billion just this year to Israel, even though America is itself, trillions of dollars in debt. Will more machine guns, missiles & tanks make others feel peaceful?  

So would a world where everyone had a gun be a place where you could talk about issues & differences? Or somehow getting rid of the state & creating a state of anarchy would help? Sheeeeeeeeeesh.

Good journeys all

Mobius

Hi all

I'm just amazed at how fervent people get about this business of Saddam having nuclear weapons etc. & the prospect of him launching ICBM's at america or dropping an atom bomb on american soil. How rediculous & how quickly americans seem to forget that America is the ONLY nation who has PROVED it will drop nuclear weapons on unarmed civilians, even when they had total control of naval & air power at the end of WW2.

Personally, I don't like Saddam Hussein & believe he is a ruthless dictator. But has he or any other countries who HAVE nuclear weapons actually used them like the U.S did against the japanese?

If the pentagon has definate proof that Saddam has ANY weapons of mass destruction, why don't they just simply tell the weapons inspectors where to look? Why waste time sending U.N inspectors all over the place when the pentagon has said Saddam has DEFINATELY got weapons of mass destruction? Just point out the spot & bust the guy.

Yes, I'll agree with Qui Gonn here. Ender Wiggan (Fallenangel too), it's refreshing to see an american who isn't waiting for CNN, TIME & George Bush to tell them what they should think & blindly accept one side of the story.

For anyone remotely interested in another point of view on the war on terror, that you wont find in ANY of your major news networks & why so many people around the world INCLUDING many americans (some very high profile americans in this link too) are majorly peeved at this war on terror (grab for oil & continuation of the armament empires).

It's quite long, but I can gaurantee, it's quite cutting & direct.

http://www.astrologyforthepeople.com/stranger_than_fiction.htm

Then again, if you believe all the trash the major news networks around the world are feeding us, you might want to wait for their next installment of lies, which might help you to sleep easier at night.

Good journeys all

Mobius

Hi all

From a spiritual point of view, I believe very much the same thing as jijola.

We are here to learn a number of lessons we have chosen as our life curriculum. When we learn them, we can die when ever the body dies.
Otherwise we get sent back, maybe with the exception of a suicide.

I know this is a discussion about a spiritual lifespan in the physical, but I will throw this in anyway.

From a scientific point of view, (correct me if I am wrong Patty) the cells in the body only have so many divisions before they either stop dividing (therefore don't have the repairing capability they had when they could divide & renew damaged cells)  or die. On the end of each chromosome is the "telomeres" which keep record of how many divisions have occured & how many remain. Telomeres function as a cellular fuse that burns down as pieces are lost from the very ends. Telomeres have hundreds to thousands of repeats of a specific sequence. At each mitosis, the telomeres lose 50 to 200 sequences (nucleotides) gradually shortening the chromosome like a fuse. After about 50 divisions, a critical amount of telomere DNA is lost & if the cell is damaged at this point, it hasn't got the same amount of info to do a repair job.

The telomeres have a different life span & rate of mitosis in different people & no matter what you do, when they go, there's only a certain amount of divisions left before the whole works start to fall apart. From a genetic viewpoint, you could say that we are here to serve a purpose & biologically gather information through interaction, learn lessons, exchange this information through reproduction at a cellular level (have kids to keep the gene pool refreshed & less susceptable to death from whatever, like cockroaches) then continue to gather information/learn lessons for the cosmic database of knowledge & yourself.

Blahhhh, I've confused myself now,hehe.

Good journeys all

Mobius

Hi all

I like these proverbs from Robert Monroe & a friend of mine Solo, thought I might add it to this thread.

"The greatest illusion is that man has limitations"

Robert A. Monroe


A message from Bob

There is no beginning, there is no end, There is only change.

There is no teacher, There is no student, There is only remembering.

There is no good, there is no evil, There is only expression.

There is no union, there is no sharing, There is only one.

There is no joy, there is no sadness, There is only love.

There is no greater, there is no lesser, There is only balance.

There is no stasis, there is no entropy, There is only motion.

There is no wakefulness, there is no sleep, There is only being.

There is no limit, there is no chance, There is only a plan.

Robert A. Monroe "Ultimate Journey"

Time = Illusion

The future already happened in the past.

The Past usually happens in the future(S).

The moment you realize, and become aware of being in the present, It already belongs to the past.

      Solo T. (Australia 1996)


The Ocean

"What I am experiencing now is so wonderful ... I hope you can understand how wonderful it is. This is so much more than I can say in words.

It's like being omnipresent. I am outside time and space but yet in it all.

It's so much consciousness everywhere and it's so big.

It's like the drops in the ocean. Like every drop is aware of it's own existence but not about the ocean,  and the ocean is not aware of what's outside itself and not of the drops who makes it an ocean.

To understand it all, you have to stand on the beach on a distance from the ocean.

And then there is other oceans. And when you can see them all ... you start to understand how big it is."


     Joe Harrington a few hours before his crossing over in 2001

Good journeys all

Mobius

Hehe, yous funny.

Mobius