Messages

I don't really get OBEs or astral projections very much. But I do occasionally get prophetic dreams. In this dream I remember over a decade ago I was standing outside at night gazing into the night sky is with its vastness engulfing me and then I noticed a nuclear missile moving and honing in on its target. As if it's getting ready to be shot.

Back then the thought of nuclear war in the public consciousness was not a thing at all especially in America. These days times have changed so much. I don't know if you know what's going on with Russia China and Iran but things are changing. And indeed those nuclear missiles are being aligned as I write this.

I believe my higher self gave me that dream.

I wanna wish everyone a Merry Christmas this year here. It's been an amazing 2022 year here at the astral pulse. Much love, energy, and reiki from everyone. I hope all your dreams have come true in the astral plane and beyond. Shout out to my boy Xanth for holding this joint down. Love the new layout here. Really digging the plain retro vibe look.

Santa Clause said he'll be out of town after Christmas visiting the astral machine elves in DMT hyperspace. Apparently they've been really busy ever since Joe Rogan mentioned them on his podcast.

Shoutout to my guy the Buddha, I saw him about a month ago on his cell phone 3 dimensions away from nirvana ordering a pizza for him and his followers. He said he wanted one with everything.

Wanna give another shout out to my man, Jesus Christ. I ran across him in the astral plane, Upper realm,  somewhere between Bob Monroes and Frank Kepples inner dimensions. I saw him fishing. I told him he should use better bait from Bass Pro Shops instead (I use to work there). He said he hopes Russia and Ukraine doesn't get out if control otherwise he'll have to return and rapture a bunch of Christians kick Satan's butt and then rein and rule the earth with an Iron Septor for 1000 years.

Ok all jokes aside. Hope you all had a great Christmas!! Happy Travels!!

Are you kidding? Free will is more like something you develop and you can use it on any plane you want. That's the freedom a free and enlightened soul deserves. You can then visit the amazing planes just by thinking about them. On some of these you are usually given a gadget or some way to navigate the plane and it will create for you endless toys and adventures and games by reading your mind and playing concert to your thoughts. There really are heavenly planes out there and they are more common and easier to get there than you think!   Anything you want baby! Endless hours of fun. A never-ending bliss.

Well you sound very optimistic. But I wish it was that easy for me to have endless hours of fun in the astral. I think my genetics aren't really cut out for it plus the medication I'm on but maybe one day I will get proficient at it. But in the meantime I do like learning from astral projectors

Yes, there are other "schools". But as with this one here, you have to abide by their rules. Free will is still limited. We don't necessarily have total free will here. Before we came here, we made a plan. Things in life. good or bad usually will occur to help us back on our pre-charted journey. At least ones on the "main road or path" that is.

Thank you for that insight Lumaza. I appreciate your input as I rely off of the wisdom of those with more experience.

So from what I can gather we lose our free will when we die but are there other dimensions outside of this psychical dimension we can exercise free will in as a individuated unit of consciousness?

Thanks!

If you're looking for anecdotes, you might be interested in Jurgen Ziewe's books. They're essentially diaries of his astral explorations of the afterlife.

Thank you for the recommendation, I'll check it out.

[VOID is the largest sphere]

It can remain the Afterlife for a "while" if you get stuck. This is what 'retrievals' are done for.

I think there are higher planes of existence that we as projectors who are still 'bound' to our bodies cannot reach in incarnated stage. Our soul essence (Higher Self or whatever you want to call it) included.

Then on the other hand we have mystical experiences and projections where this happened so we have the exceptions to the rule.

So my answer would be: It is both. Yes and No. But normally (if things go well) it is a 'no' since we are only temporarily here on Earth and its 'astral surroundings' and then move on as souls to seek new adventures and to grow. At least that is what I believe.

That is interesting, so you think it's both but usually not. I was under the impression that it was usually yes that the astral was in the afterlife, but your saying it the opposite that usually the astral isn't accessible in the afterlife. Thanks for chiming in Volgerle.

That we call life beyond our "body," "after life" is a bit of a paradox. Considering that Life is, I think you're both right.

That's an interesting play on words.

Short answer: nobody can ever know.  Nobody has ever died (permanently <- that's the trick), come back and tell us what happens.  Dying and coming back ultimately means that you weren't dead and your awareness was still connected to your physical body.  What happens once that link is permanently severed?  THAT is the question.  Does it make a difference?  Well, it doesn't have to, but it certainly can have huge implications. 

Longer answer: The way I see it, no, that bit of awareness which you identify as you returns to the ONE.  We return to the whole of consciousness.
But that doesn't mean you cease to exist, you just cease to exist as your human experience... the Intent behind your choices in life also return to the ONE and makes consciousness become closer to Love.

So in the end you think we cannot know if astral projection goes into the "afterlife". Hum, I like your skepticism/humbleness about it.  And yeah I kinda remember your take on this before when we talked about reincarnation. Even though I think reincarnation is likely true and my GF agrees, I do value your skepticism on reincarnation and the afterlife, as it's probably needed especially on the forum like this. But yeah I agree in the whole of consciousness being ONE and we will return to that at some point, and the intent following you.

Did you know there is a old theory of the "unified field" which I believe is that oneness is being proven true and elaborated on, and even exploited by Randall Mills.

Brilliant Light Power's SunCell Announced on CNN
https://youtu.be/omUSfYuVT1c

Still waiting for this product to come to market, but people have put their careers on the line testing and validating brilliant light powers technology.

Anyway.. Thanks for chiming in Xanth.

Hiya!

It is a great question.

In my experience, ( and way of mapping consciousness as I myself am experiencing ) it looks something like this:

VOID is the largest sphere. It penetrates all the spheres. It penetrates between the spheres, where one 'dimension' touches another. Within this sphere that is VOID there is another sphere >>

NonManifestSpace. CausalSpace. This sphere is not limited to, but includes what we call the "life-between-life" areas. It patterns/advances inward into itself all the way in toward Void/Source. Within this sphere is another sphere >>

ManifestSpace. Mental/Astral/PhysicalSpace. Universal/Galactic/PlanetarySpace. 9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1D. It patterns, likewise, inward into itself from 'macrocosmic' to 'microcosmic' within its manifest and unmanifest schemes.

The Astral, in this sense, is a manifest area ( not a life-between-life area ). It is in essence galactic space, galactic life, the galactic-level playground/playing board; consisting of 6/5/4D physicalities. It is where we go to, graduate to, in order to learn to interact and get along with the idea of others on an even grander scale >> a galactic scale, with those living in other planetary systems throughout our local universe. Like physical space, it includes a 'personal/private/dream' sector where we can learn, experience and integrate on our own. <--This is where I feel a lot of us are often going in our OBEs/Astral Projections, not into manifest/consensus territory ( which we also at times go into ). In a sense it is an 'in-between' area also, like what we call the "physical duplicate" or etheric version of our 3D physical space. While not a manifest space, but rather a frequency between frequencies it is a highly constructive and creative area. Essential for not just learning, but graduating,  g r o w i n g  o u t  into the wider territories of what I more simply just refer to as additional consciousness space.

I hope this view is helpful, and maybe helps get the ball rolling with additional patterns/views.

Casey

Thanks for your comment here on my thread. I gotta side question for you on this one. In this "NonManifestSpace[/b]. CausalSpace" or sphere as you call it, is there a subject and object experience in this space and does it have a loss of free will as it's "non-manifest"? Thanks.

This question is for avid astral projectors with some first hand experience. From my research that I did many years ago I found that it is true, that the astral is linked to the afterlife, but my girlfriend doesn't think so. So I'm trying to find out for her. I like to out source my truth for things I don't know and understand. Just as I call a plumber to fix my piping, or and electrician to fix my electricity.  So I would especially love to hear from you if you had both a and NDE and a projection experience.  Any anecdotes would help a lot as well. Thanks.

Plasma,
LightBeam was referring to WW1, not WW2 which you missed in your comment. I think most everyone understood her point that a further degree of women's independence was an effect and not a cause of a world war. And maybe a very deep insight into the far reaching changes such social upheaval can offer Mankind at Times like this, despite the otherwise obvious negativity...Maybe just another small miss on your part...

And maybe you could lose just a little of that critical nature? and be open to some other viewpoints...

👍

Big turbulence means changes are needed. Everyone involved needs to ask themselves what is it we need to change on a personal and collective consciousness level, what is it that needs to be changed in the governing of the country itself as well. Corruption needs to be uprooted, human rights need to be restored. There was no change for several decades, and the mass consciousness is pushing for tougher turbulence to push change through. That is the law of learning. When no action is taken to learn, then our higher selves create circumstances ion which we are forced to change and learn. This is how I see hardship. It is necessary for learning. All involved have agreed on a higher level to be in this circumstance for one reason or another.

The thing I am going to do is to send inner energy and prayers for the lessons to be learned faster. This is the only way. If I have a magic wand and make it all good, it will not last long, because the unchanged state of mind and beliefs will create it again. 

Do you know what WW1 did? It gave women their rights and equalized more the division of classes in Europe. If the war did not start, men back out of businesses to fight, women showed that they are capable of running businesses, learn, make decisions and not just stand behind their husbands silently. Servants that were working 17 hours a day for pennies, being basically slaves of the upper classes with no rights, the extreme poverty. all that changed because of the war. It was the only way, since people dis not take initiative for a change while it was time. Then change was forced upon. 

Wow so your saying WWII happened because we didn't let women become more independent. Thats a bit harsh.. Id say it was just a nice side effect of the war.

Thanks for chiming in lightbeam.

I just made a little post about hearts and saw your post right after. I think it is time we put what we have learned to practice. Sew those seeds and believe this world is good. We have to bring that good into our reality.

Sounds reasonable.  I can see what you mean because I think in the hearts and minds of at least an American people we felt like Afghanistan didn't need us and so that's what ended up manifesting.




Does anyone here think that if we had a spiritual technology to make anyone astral project and if the taliban started using it doing Astral Projection on demand that they would change their ways because of it.

I've been following the rapid breakdown of the Afghanistan government and military and now that the taliban has taken over practically the whole country, I have been saddened by this whole thing.  I can't get the whole thing out of my head.  We promised the Afgan people that we would be with them side-by-side through this, we spent and a trillion dollars helping Afghanistan and to just see it all crumble so fast is a huge loss for freedom lovers around the world. Women are now at risk of being subjugated and so much more, to put it lightly.

What does astral projection teach us about Islamism, war, and foreign policy if anything?

I don't care very much about the personal opinions here as I'm sure there will be some disagreement, but only what if anything astral projection may teach us about it.

Thank you for the support. At least I know he's in a better place now because of the community here.

A good friend of mine died. His name was Jay. He was a good man, a man of integrity, a man of his word. Even though he was as addict he lived life to the fullest. He didn't take crap from anyone, and he stood up for his friends, including me. I didn't know him a very long time but the time I did know him he was always friendly, always invited me into his house, and treated me with not only respect be treated me as family. His passing is a milestone in my life because that changed the course of my life. I know he's off into the astral now, and a new beginning for him has come, one of reflection, and one of understanding, and one of well let's admit it fun flying around.  

In all seriousness though RIP Jay.

Sorry everyone, I've been dealing with a lot, I lost my job.

Thoughts are the result of our beliefs, moral values, knowledge, wisdom. Not the other way around. So, it is not the thoughts we have to watch but our beliefs. Forced thoughts and actions in exchange of rewards are not genuine and these types of behavior will earn even more challenges in order to understand true compassion and genuine care for others without expectation of rewards. I know several religions people that do thongs for others and then ask God to bless them because they did X,Y,Z. Because they are afraid not to go to hell haha. But you see, if their actions are not based on true compassion and care and only to save their skin or to get rewards, place in heaven, better reincarnation, etc, that is basically deceiving the Source that grants these wishes. However, I don't even believe that it works that way anyway, but that is just an example of what they do.
In addition, the NP is not linear. I have said it so many times. There is no such order of reincarnations. Time and space is not linear in the multiverse. At this very moment all of our characters  are experiencing anything and everything in all parts of the multiverse simultaneously. Knowledge needs to be gained by first hand experience and all spirits need to experience it all. So nothing is going to spare you from experiencing somewhere as some character extreme challenges. If you do not want to believe that, then you have fears. Fears can be conquered only by facing the very thing you are afraid of. I know it's hard to be understood while we are ion character due to many limitations set on purpose, but this is how the school for spirit expansion functions.

Just be the best version of yourself, genuinely care about the well being of others, do not seek rewards and they will come to you. If you don't know how to do the above, then meditate and seek understanding, seek opportunities and experiences to gain these qualities. Forced thoughts will only block further the goal you are trying to reach, because you are trying to mask the symptoms without addressing the root cause.

Hum yeah, I guess what I'm trying to say is that not expecting a reward is good and important, but you will be rewarded anyway for doing the right things. It's like the bible says God and Jesus will reward you for believing and doing the right thing, but it also says on that day don't expect the reward, just say we are unprofitable servants.

Plasma, I want to explain why I asked that question a bit further. I know people here that know you from your posts here and have corresponded/replied with you throughout the years you have been here would be thinking the same thing. I get to be the "bad guy" though and actually post the question myself. I read your above thread last night and wasn't going to post anything, but then a few things happened that kind of compelled me to reply to you here.

I couldn't/wouldn't write a book on OBEs/Reincarnation/UFOs/Spiritualism, the NP itself, etc. because I don't fully understand them myself. I do know many ways to get into a good NP state. But I don't know any of the W's yet, the whys, where's. what's, who's, etc.. I haven't confronted all there is to confront, seen all there is to see and still to this day, i experience failed experiences.

Case in point. This morning I had a "False Awakening". For those that aren't familiar with that term, it's when you think you are awake and are going about your day, then all of a sudden you wake up for "real", to this physical reality here. If you are aware enough in it, you can see reality fluctuations. But because it catches you off guard, you get duped.
So back to my experience. I awoke, got out a bed to start my day and I see that on the floor, our carpet, is a few pieces of jewelry. They look familiar to what MJ wears. I follow the jewelry trail and see now it is Crystals. I work with Crystals when I make my Crystal Amplifiers. So, we have them all over the house, just not on the floor though. At this moment I am in a 100% physical mindset. As I get further down the hall, I see my Step Son and few other familiar faces gathered around the dining table there. There seems to be two trails of Crystals and jewelry now. One leads to our dining room table, the other leads down our hall and to the doorway.

First I approach the table and on it is a good sized piece of Apple Pie. Just the way I like it with melted cheese on top. I then turn and follow the other trail. But as I am following it towards the door, my mind starts to contemplate what is behind the door. In other words, I am starting to force control. Well we all know what happens when you force something in the NP. It just ends then and there. So, I wake up now for real and am disoriented and disappointed.

My second experience happened in today's Phase soak. I call it a Phase soak because I am Phasing while lying in my bathtub. I began with my Healing Mantra and daily NP rituals, you could call it "priming the pump". Then I start noticing the darkness before my closed eyes. Very quickly a image goes from right to left, right by me. After a few moments, it happens again. This time I can see it is someone on a flying broom, ala a Witch or Faerie or something. The image quickly disappears to the left side just off of my current visual screen. I can feel my physical eyes chasing it at this point. The visual keeps appearing though and each time they get more vivid. Now I can see it is a female and she is wearing pastel colored flowing clothing, like a dress I guess. The flowing dress soon turns into a vortex of color. It's not my physical eyes following the scene. Now it is just "being" there.

The next time it happens, I engage my focus to follow her. I do for awhile and she leads me to a new depth or "layer" should I say. Now she is gone, but I am in a much deeper darkness. A new visual appears and I decide to follow it too. While following, I feel like I am on their tail, I guess like a drone or something. The visual disappears and now I see I am even deeper. I am very aware or the all the depth around. Another visual/focus target flies by and again I follow it. When it disappears I quickly realize I am in a even deeper level of depth. This layer is so extreme , so profound, that I have to abort my whole session then and there. It was so overpowering, it frightened me. Next time, if I get a next time, I will hold on longer.

As you see, I failed twice. Once because of my physical mindset taking over instead of my NP mindset. That's what happens via false awakenings though. They catch you off guard and dupe you. There is no exit symptoms in them.
The next failure came as a result of a what I saw as a "fear test".

Both of these circumstances I have never read about in any books by any of the Authors of Astral Projection/Out of Body Experiences. I have experienced a number of things that I have never read about, nor heard talked about by any of those Authors.  I have also listened to youtube videos on topic of OBEs/AP. Many of them don't have a clue on what they are talking about. They had a few experiences and now are supposed experts on the subject!  

I hope he quotes you guys in his book! 

Plasma, how do you expect to teach others when you don't fully understand yourself?   

Almost, I say almost because I have shared links to other people's own opines via youtube interviews, etc..  Almost everything others and I, all the advise, etc. that we have written on this Forum here came to us via what we have learned and experienced from our own NP explorations and teachings received there. I teach people how to get there, but that's as far as it goes. What they see and experience is between them and whoever/whatever it is in the NP that wishes to teach them further.

I just question how advanced these teachings are. I mean if we look at Jesus' teachings he teaches us to be servants. And the least among us is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven etc. I suspect that astral projection will tend to give astral projectors a mean average of of advanced teachings. But what happens when you reach the upper limits of spiritual growth? I'm wondering on the spectrum where does the average astral teaching lye in the hierarchy of all teachings.

For instance we can map ego growth, with let's say Susanne Cook-Greuter ego development theory. Or we can map spiritual growth with spiral dynamics. I'm wondering where does Jesus' teachings fit on these spectrum's, and where does astral projection teachings fit on them. That is a question that I should spend sometime researching for my book.

Oh I do not find this to be off topic at all!

All this is very connected, it extrapolates into the point/topic/subject making it more relevant. There are phases the sadhaka ( student ), ( thinker ), goes through.

Thought/thinking could be said to be a 3/4D experience of reality. Those who are in this phase of their experiencing ( learning ) very much need to *be in thought mode for the most part.  This is precisely the experience being gained and garnered from. As one progresses through this phase, as they culminate and are reaching a graduation/transition point it can be recognized through the natural inclination toward additional states....states such as the meditative state in which it is recognized that one is in fact not the thought(s) but rather the observer of them. This is a very different experience of the self and reality than the thought-based state of being. As one more regularly remains parked in observer there is a further shift from observer into pure awareness. These latter states could in a way be equated with meditation, or a pure meditative state. Do note that thought(s), from the vantage of these states are still present, they are just not being claimed by the pure awareness and observer. Absolute awareness and observation of them does continue, though. A great deal can be done from these vantages with thought due to confusion being at a minimum, - decision space is expanded and the speed at which actions can be brought into play is accentuated and accelerated.

Were we to go as deep as it is possible, it would have to been said thought is suffering. The original thought is that of an individuated self, a 'second' self, an experiencer of the self. It is what creates ( the illusion of ) space and time. The thought itself can set about to correct and complete specific incomplete and incorrect thought(s) within itself, which is what most are referencing by the term "suffering" but it can never end the source of suffering - itself - the original thought. The action required to end the source of suffering is non-identification with it. Every being inevitably comes to this. There is always the grade and graduation.

Every being, every state of being has a purpose and I very much agree that each and every being should be precisely where they are in their journey.

Only in this, does what comes of this truly exist. ( the next step./phase ).

I have thoughts all the time and I don't suffer. Thoughts only have as much meaning as you give them. I don't suffer because I don't put unrealistic expectations on my thoughts.

I keep wanting to comment, then I delete to only comment again, but change my wording.   

So, I'm not going to delete anymore. lol  When I was here a decade ago this was the same on going... I don't want to say argument, but the topic of passionate discussions and the common theme was a definitive thought that things had to be done in a certain manner.  I, of course don't agree because well, I think we all have different DNA and fingerprints for a reason.  Why not have totally different experiences that still lead to the same point we are all seemingly wanting to reach? Why not have different ways of getting there? I will say that I too was consumed by my ego at times but now it doesn't matter, how, what, why or when anymore. *shrug* there's a backstory. lol

Anyhoo, Reincarnation has been a love of mine since I was very young and when I was meditating on a daily basis I had many experiences which some I believe to be past-lives.  But now, I've been wondering about "merging" our past souls that might be stuck, as it were... like, what if in one of my past lives I had a traumatic death, like being stabbed?  What if that soul fraction isn't at peace, can I connect with it in some way and thus calming not only that portion of my soul, but this soul now?  lol   This is essentially what I've been tossing around in my head for over a year now. lol  Split personalities is another thing that I wonder is associated with past-lives and our souls just reconnecting.  I haven't meditated consistently for over ten years yet I've had more experiences with spirits and guides in these past years... *lightbulb moment*  Perhaps I am on a lower vibration and interacting with lower energies... Food for thought. 

The soul merging hypothesis is interesting.

And yes I agree that there are many paths to the same destination. Which is why I think ego can be good if we learn how to master it. I wanna make a thought map of the best beliefs and values to guild my life, I think that would be very beneficial.

Contemplate with thoughts.

Meditate with no thoughts.

I know, but sometimes meditating can mean contemplate

Well there are certainly many reasons to incarnate.. one, without doubt being to experience the advance/graduation/transition from thought to pure awareness. The shift from an identification ( of ourself ) with thought(s) to that of the observer of them. Is this idea interesting to you?

Yeah I'm already very much aware of that as one of the main reasons to reincarnate. I'm more interested in the value of thoughts.

On a side note, I find that people that promote this idea of just meditate and ignore thoughts like there is some type of inherent distrust of thoughts in general. But in my experience for those that really contemplate thoughts can actually be a path toward ending suffering and dare I say enlightenment.

The theory goes like this, if everybody just meditated all the time and ignored their thoughts and did what the Buddha did it would take us much longer to finally figure out science and then figure out the technology needed to end suffering and travel the Galaxies.

Not only that I believe those that figure things out here and make exploits to help end suffering here they are rewarded in that Afterlife with a better reincarnation next time. I am trying to gather evidence to support that theory for my book. Because otherwise there's no incentive to actually do good by actually ending suffering and that is a very sad thought and state of affairs.

Sorry to get off topic.

What the... no.  Just no.  Where would you hear such nonsense?!
Meditate on it.

I thought it heard it from Tom Campbell but it's been a little while it might have been somebody else but can't say for sure.

When you say meditate on it do you mean contemplate like with thoughts?

Hey everyone I've heard it said that we sometimes reincarnate to learn thought control. I'm wondering though does that mean the ability to stop our thoughts? Or the ability to control your thoughts? Or both?

Thanks Karxx Gxx and Xanth for chiming in, gave me food for thought.

Hi everyone, I've been thinking lately on how I can relate my taste for dark heavy music to the spiritual. Is there any place or reference for dark heavy music in the spiritual? Or there is no place for it? For instance I can listen to some types of old rap music and use that as a reference point for a life separated from the God for a lack of truth. Not to say that is the only way to view rap. I can enjoy it for what it is too. Anyway..

Note most of the songs I listen to are chill and laid back. But I do occasionally listen to dark music.

This is the song that inspired me to create this thread.
Verasect - Catch Your Breath (Øfdream Remix)
https://youtu.be/qFSvvdFUa7A

Just meditate dude, just meditate.
Your mind is too noisy to do anything.

Nobody here can help you until you figure yourself out first.

Most of the greatest discoveries that have come to humanity didn't come about by meditation. But rather by thinkers in the sciences and arts.

I mean don't get me wrong. Meditation is great. Some people benefit from it more than others, but it's only one focus on all that is.

You know I've seriously considered just sacrificing all my time into meditation if we get a UBI universal basic income. But until then I still need to work a job and pay the bills, write books, and discover new and better truths. Perhaps one day I will discover meditation as my best truth. But I'm not there yet, and that is perfectly fine IMO. I have made peace within myself without meditation being front and center.

The word life was never mentioned in the facebook chat. I thought I was talking about "actions," "visualization," and "imagination". I guess "actions" could be considered "life". Anyway we can argue about semantics all day.

I was going to ask - "What do you think of creativity?" But instead I came up with a much more thought provoking response.

I feel like you and perhaps some others here have this idea that meditation will solve the world's problems. I use to have this idea too when I first started learning about meditation and astral projection. But I out grew this naive assumption after a while. First of all I think all the energetic, emotional, traumatic baggage that people gather while being on earth can with time in the afterlife easily pass away and fall off. Thus making meditation only really valuable to de-stresss, or if one reaches energetic salvation or Moksha, which very very few people reach, or perhaps it'd be philosophically, and analytically valuable. IMO certain types of concentration is what solves the worlds problems. I mean we look at all the advancement of human civilization with science, and the arts, it all came down to well placed concentration, and creativity, all of which use the mind. I feel like you don't even think creativity is good. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But IMO creativity is a work of the spirit. It's an almost magical process by which we can synthesize new ideas, technologies, things and liberate us from the mundane. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. LOL just kidding, but seriously I feel like I've almost outgrown my stay here, I mean I feel like I can't even have thought provoking creative, conversations here sometimes. Like I need someone to challenge me. I love constructive criticism with well thought responses.

I know you'll probably say something like "I never said that meditation would solve the worlds problems." Prove me wrong. Maybe I'm misunderstand something, but if you can't even talk to me about some of the most basic spiritual ideas then how I find it hard to believe you'd give a much different answer for even marginally more complex questions about real world issues.

Thanks Karxx Gxx for PMing in response to this message.

You weren't asking about control in regards to thinking... you were asking about control in regards to your LIFE.
There's a massive difference there.  Clarity dude.  It's important.

Anyway... back to the regularly scheduled thread!  

The word life was never mentioned in the facebook chat. I thought I was talking about "actions," "visualization," and "imagination". I guess "actions" could be considered "life". Anyway we can argue about semantics all day.

I was going to ask - "What do you think of creativity?" But instead I came up with a much more thought provoking response.

I feel like you and perhaps some others here have this idea that meditation will solve the world's problems. I use to have this idea too when I first started learning about meditation and astral projection. But I out grew this naive assumption after a while. First of all I think all the energetic, emotional, traumatic baggage that people gather while being on earth can with time in the afterlife easily pass away and fall off. Thus making meditation only really valuable to de-stresss, or if one reaches energetic salvation or Moksha, which very very few people reach, or perhaps it'd be philosophically, and analytically valuable. IMO certain types of concentration is what solves the worlds problems. I mean we look at all the advancement of human civilization with science, and the arts, it all came down to well placed concentration, and creativity, all of which use the mind. I feel like you don't even think creativity is good. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But IMO creativity is a work of the spirit. It's an almost magical process by which we can synthesize new ideas, technologies, things and liberate us from the mundane. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. LOL just kidding, but seriously I feel like I've almost outgrown my stay here, I mean I feel like I can't even have thought provoking creative, conversations here sometimes. Like I need someone to challenge me. I love constructive criticism with well thought responses.

I know you'll probably say something like "I never said that meditation would solve the worlds problems." Prove me wrong. Maybe I'm misunderstand something, but if you can't even talk to me about some of the most basic spiritual ideas then how I find it hard to believe you'd give a much different answer for even marginally more complex questions about real world issues.

Okay, getting straight to the one question you asked in your discussion title. While there may be some who can control or feel they can control their thinking I am not one of them. My thinker seems to have no shut off switch so in lei of that I have learned to hit the ignore or snooze button.

So then the question that comes to mind is does this affect your free will?

So let's define free will. Now if I Google define free will this is what I get.
Free Will - the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

But I think this definition of free will isn't the best definition, and here's why. For one to be free in the first place they must be connected to truth, because without truth there is suffering. The Buddha taught us that ignorance and wrong desire is the cause of suffering. So the idea is this, we can't be free unless we believe truth and act on it. If people don't believe truth then they get a worser reincarnation and they suffer a loss. If we believe truth and make life better here for ourselves and others then we are rewarded with a better reincarnation with more truth. The more we believe truth the more free we'll become.

So oddly enough one can't be relatively free without sacrificing first. Think of a doctor that has to go to school to become a physician. So not only is he building up positive karma healing people, he's supporting himself and he's got a lot of choice because he's making 150K a year.

So in order to be free in free will, we must be connected to truth in some way shape or form. And it seems that the more truth/understanding/wisdom/knowledge etc we gain the more we can end our suffering and the suffering of others. Think of an advanced highly evolved civilization. They have refined the truths of reality so much that they don't have violence and there's very little suffering.

So to answer the question does not thinking hinder your free will? Probably yes I'd say, and here's why I think that. A will and truth, are both functions of  the mind, which require thinking to refine and gain more. Also in order to connect to truth you must think, concentrate, use creativity. The end product of a "will" geared toward truth is freedom. Thus free will.

Thoughts?

I wrote all this when I was sleepy, so I hope it all makes sense. LOL

Thanks for chiming in Nameless.

Back to the original topic. I think free will is possible but only if certain psychological and experiential criteria are meet first. Do you's agree? I'd be curious to go into this with yous for feedback.