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i don't know where else to post this so it's here.  
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kr/index.htm

i was at the bookstore yesterday and i paged through a few of his books.  he really gets you thinking.  it's funny though, what he gets you thinking is 'stop thinking'.  his writings are kind of contradictory in a way.  i felt the entire time i was reading his book there was an underlying message reaching out to me saying 'stop reading books, stop reading this book.'  

good stuff

i'm amazed at how much energy is expended talking to children on this forum.  it seems as though because certain ideas are typed on the net that they hold more value.  if any one of these children were in a room w/ all of us claiming to do any of these things, they would be lucky to even get a listen.  

some of the members here actually take a lot of time and will keep participating in these little arguments.  we all know that these are kids.  reasoning w/ them as if they were adults isn't going to work.  

i propose some alternate routes: top on the list is to just ignore them when you see the contents of the post,  if that doesn't work try being overly sarcastic w/ them instead.  i've been doing it for a while now and it's loads of fun.  

i don't want this to turn into 'one of those' forums as bad as the rest of you.  if we keep feeding it though, it will.  i'm sure one of the mods are aware of the situation and it will be dealt w/ accordingly.  

also, if anyone could teach me how to levitate or shoot a
super-ultimate-high-voltage ki blast, please let me know.
thnx

there are a sh**load of people that are members on the forum that have never posted.  for whatever reason it's happening, stop it.  take this oppurtunity to post here.  you are all members here for a reason.  i suspect to find help in projecting.  there are thousands of posts you can read here and the treatises, but if you are experiencing a problem that isn't clearly defined, then you are going to have trouble.  post your problems here.  i will try my best to help you, as will the others.  have a nice, unshy, not afraid to post day.[]

in ad robert suggests for a very fast way of achieving the trance state, to just lay down and start doing rope.  he says it should pull you right into trance.  he's right.

if you just want to feel some fast energetic sensations though, try and individually project the different parts of your body that you wish to activate. you can do this even when being very physically active.  when you get the hang of it, it becomes extremely easy.

since projection is near impossible, if not impossible when there is physical tension, this should be a completely mental action.  there won't be any doubt that what you will be experiencing will be energetic sensations, and not slight physical movement on your part.

the first few months that i was using the n.e.w. system, i was having trouble feeling the energy move through me, w/out moving parts of my body along w/ it.  the slightest physical motion will feel similar to what the energy will feel like while moving through you.  you can even physically move so slightly that you won't be able to actually see it w/ your eyes.  this can lead to a false sense of energy raising.  

since it's not possible to project while there is physical tension, it should be cut and dry that every feeling you have while attempting this, is energetic.  

very slowly you can try and project adjoining body parts and this should create some heavy energetic sensations.  pretty soon you should be able to send a wave of attempted projection throughout your entire body.  this will expand your energy body and make you more aware of any energetic movement.  

i've found the easiest way to feel what i'm talking about is to try and imagine what it would feel like if you moved your hand from where it is now, to doing something else.  keep your hands and arm completely still and feel the movement instead.  continue to do this w/ the rest of your body, a little at a time.

this is similar to robert's awareness hand excersize except that there isn't another set of hands that you are pretending to use.  try and imagine that you are trying to pull those set of awareness hands out from your physical hands.  if you are successful you should feel your entire arm trying to project and you will feel some tremendous energetic sensations.

before bed last night i did some energy raising.  at about eight this morning i woke up to a voice saying 'the kundalini flame embraces you'.  immediately after the sentence started i experienced what may have been the strongest energy sensations i've ever felt.  they lasted for about five minutes.  about four minutes into this i felt the bottom of my spine kind of flare up w/ energy.  this sensation was noticably stronger than what i was already feeling.  i felt it move up my spine about six inches and then stop.  i became part of some incredible colors that were all around me for the duration of the experience.   any ideas?

this thread is being started for anyone who has a problem w/ the other thread 'let's argue.  instead of wasting your/our time stating how you disagree about what's going on there, you can come here, agree about something, then go on your way.

now to find something that there will be a universal agreeance upon.

how about :  it's really nice when things are going well in my life.

i've always been a big fan of having things turn out well in my life.  sometimes they don't and i notice that i dislike that and would rather have it the other way.  

once i thought that maybe i didn't like it when things went well.  boy was i wrong.  as soon as they started to go wrong i disliked it very much.  a few minutes later when they panned out, i immediatlely felt better.  to this day when things go wrong, i find myself thinking 'boy, i sure would like it if things were better'.

anyone else?

my grandmother and i had a conversation about life and death.  i've never really conversed w/ her about this before but she is catholic and i know how she feels about what happens when you die. it was a pretty good conversation but i held back in places.

we differ in opinion in certain things.  i've had certain experiences through meditation and projection that have changed the way i feel about religion, life and death.  when we talked i didn't tell her about certain things because they are different from what she thinks and may even directly oppose her thoughts now.  

of course we both feel strongly about our own opinions.  she respects what i say maybe more than anyone else in the family because i've got my head on straight.  that's why i'm not sure if i should hold back w/ my thoughts.  part of me feels that i shouldn't say too much because i don't want to take the chance of weakening or changing any of her beliefs.  even if i succeeded in convincing her otherwise of things she believes now, i can't imagine it would feel good to anyone to change their beliefs at such a late age.  

i feel the same way about my dad at certain times.  not about religion but just about how things should be handled generally in life.  maybe something along the lines of gossiping in a derogatory manner, but not just that.  i feel i know things now that are true that he wouldn't agree w/ but if i sat down and explained myself fully, that he then would agree w/.  even if i do get through to him about certain things, am i supposed to feel good to now know that he feels he has been wrong in acting certain ways for the last fifty years?  for certain people it's better to have their pride.  

i've asked before but i dont' remember what was said.  how do i change the time on this forum?  i made sure i was in the right setting for country and i typed in the city and state correctly but its a few hours ahead when i post.

arguing is so damn fun and great excersize for your brain/mind.  i think there should be more of it on this forum.  friendly, of course but nonetheless fierce.  someone bring up something (non-political) that would be contraversial and i will take up the other side of the argument.  it doesn't even have to be something you feel strongly about.  bring up an argument that you've recently had w/ someone that you've won or lost.  preferably one that you've won since you've obviously had the better case.  let's have some fun.

this actually applies to more than just meditation but that is how the thought came up.  for those of you who have been or will be meditating it may be helpful to keep in mind that even though most texts you will find on silencing the inner monologue read that it is a very hard thing to do and will take some time, that it is very possible that you can do it right away and w/ little effort.  this may not be the case for most people but some of you will be able to do this w/out a problem while it will take others, like me, a year or more of hard time spent to accomplish it.  reading up on things like this and astral projection you may find many uneccessary steps that can make progress slower.  while these steps will help many of us, it's important to remember that we are able to do all of these things right now and that we are just not familiar w/ any of it yet.  the term 'just do it' seems very cheap in a way because we are always used to having detailed instructions on how to do anything.   genuinely knowing that you can 'just do it' may be the best shortcut you could ever take and firmly believing it the entire time you are practicing may help in squashing any doubt that would normally arise.  what you expect plays a big role on what will happen.  most people sit down to meditate or ap and expect zero to little progress during that session.  from experience i can tell you how much impact genuinely expecting your goal to be met right then will have.  easier said than done is not getting discouraged when things don't work out.  don't.   have fun.

www.alexgrey.com for those of you who haven't yet had the pleasure.

these new smiley faces look damn cool.  i want to click on them and include them in my posts but i don't see where they are appopriate.  i may feel like i was being a little kid or something, but then they are here on this forum where mostly adults are.  also, an adult put them there.  what i'm going to do is just click on all of them here now and get it out of my system.  [!][^][][B)][:I][)][8D][xx(][V][8]}:)[:X][?][][][|)][][]

thank you for your time. []

to let anyone know that doesn't already that this is the most informative site that i've seen on the net.  many of you already know about it but there are so many questions that will be answered from just skimming around on this site that it's worth cking out before you post.  usually when i reply to a post in this dreaming forum, my reply includes this site.

i like it.

as soon as i'm aware of my breathing i alter it slightly.  no matter what i've tried i haven't been able to just breathe.   sleeping isn't a problem, i usually pass right out.  i would have liked to figure this problem out for myself, but this has been going on for over six months.   i can comfortably lay in one spot for hours w/ no difference.   i'm unable to get into a trance state because of this and it has been seriously hindering my oobe progress.  i could write another page full of details if asked.  ok, i'm done crying now, does anyone have any suggetions?

i've been using energy raising techniques for a while now w/ no noticable differences in how much 'energy' i have during the day for doing things.   i've actually slowed down to almost stopped storing energy in my sub-naval because of it.   has anyone had any experiences w/ actually feeling more energetic in the sense that they are less tired because of extra energy stored?   enough that it's no contest to just thinking that you have extra energy because of the storage.

does anyone have any knowledge about whether skills from the physical would carry over into the planes or not?  would martial arts training here have an effect there?

when trying to project, and very close to the exit, has our consciousness been projected into the double?  i'm wondering if i've had projectoins and just don't recall them.  i've made numerous attempts and have come very close.  i've also had a few spontaneous projections so i know what it feels like when i do get out.  i've had many attempts where i came very close to the exit but just ended up falling asleep because it didnt work.  i'm wondering where the line is that you have to cross that you would start to lose shadow memories.

thanks.

who else lives near them?

has anyone had any experience moving their astral body parts while not in trance?  maybe just sitting down and having your astral arm kind of project from your arm and move around.

i just typed this.

it seems as though we are at great benefit compared to our ancestors when it comes to reference material on the 'how to' in spiritual evolution.   it is probably true that many of us wouldn't be where we are today in terms of spiritual development if it weren't for the endless source of material we have to aid us.  it seems the more we learn the easier the path becomes, but is it really so?  the more we learn about what and how to do something, the more we learn about what and how not to do it too.  here we have 'the right way', which makes for a great deal more of 'wrong ways' to choose from.  

is there anyone alive today that can be compared to the spiritual leaders of then that developed their greatness w/out the use of books?  it seems as though they were actually a step ahead by achieving more so through direct experience.  maybe even some of those books that were first written wouldn't have been w/out the ignorance of others to call for them.  sometimes the question comes to mind if it's possible  to learn too much.  does and if so when does learning start to hinder in certain areas?

good overall design

my little nephews run around the house all day long.  one of them is unbelievably hyper.  he's about five or so and he seriously does not stop.  he's on full throttle constantly.  i believe he may have to be medicated soon w/ something.  maybe riddlin if i'm thinking of the rigth drug.  

i was wondering if it's possible to pick up the energy that is being exerted by others like that?  w/out taking away from the  personal energy.