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I think this is my second time directly phasing to FOC 2 through a rundown/imagination without having a lapse of consciousness. I had a headache so I wanted to take a nap. I laid down with no intention of meditating, phasing, or anything.

12/15/15

Tried taking a nap

Started imagining myself like sort of jumping through large bodies of water and falling through waterfalls or something

I start "seeing" this stuff

I back out from imagining this. I see behind my eyes phosphenes/stray energy. I go back to imagining.

Eventually I imagine myself falling from the cliff of a waterfall into the river below

I see myself fall in, I swim up, I can now feel the water on my hands and body
Literally feels like I'm in the ocean
I splash with my hand and feel and see the splash

Body numb

Started spinning
In a new room spinning
Nonverbally intend like let's go not tryna spin here all day
I start floating out the room
Everything goes black

Asked for clarity

Small screen opens in the blackness of what looks like the inside of my old house comes into view
I look around
Started walking through the house
Such a nice house!
Beautiful kitchen, living rooms, etc
I'm running past all this stuff trying to figure out where I am and take it all in

Get to a door
There's someone in it
Sounds like he's on the phone or something, I hear his name is Phil
I try to float through the door
Doesn't work.. I go back throughout the house
My current roommate comes out a room, he's brushing his teeth not paying me any attention

Experience ends

I wake up and immediately realize I was in my own dream environment

Like always, description doesn't really match awesomeness of experience but thought I should share. Thanks.

There's this saying: "what you resist persists"

Yeah it'll probably go away

Or you'll learn to live with it lol

Either way you'll be alright 

Lol ok buddy

What are you talking about, there's already a map lol

Look, I'm not the one trying to make a map.. I'm just trying to clarify FoC 4 in the general consensus of the map, which is already here.. which you yourselves have already acknowledged  .. the fact that you're trying to argue against something that already exists is kind of.. perplexing..

Anyways, your reply implies to me you don't understand where I'm coming from.. or you're just not even reading what I'm saying.

When we go within we are becoming aware of the integral parts of our being. We are physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual beings. Each of which has its own reality (at this moment), however interconnected they may be. Therefore, they can be mapped out in general terms of physical, emotional, and mental. It is true that you can't map out every nook and cranny (every street and avenue if you will), however you can map out the continents (physical, emotional, mental). I'm not denying there won't be surprises along the way and other states that can't be explained or even placed upon the map. I'm not even saying this map is linear in anyway.

The reason I came to this thread and posted what I did is because I had seen Xanth's post "My opinion is that The Buddhic Plane is representative of... possibly Focus 4 oC." and I wanted to clarify FoC 4 within these terms:

Plato: Plato's theory of Forms or theory of Ideas asserts that non-material abstract (but substantial) forms (or ideas), and not the material world of change known to us through sensation, possess the highest and most fundamental kind of reality. These Forms are the essences of various objects: they are that without which a thing would not be the kind of thing it is. For example, there are countless tables in the world but the Form of tableness is at the core; it is the essence of all of them. Plato's Socrates held that the world of Forms is transcendent to our own world (the world of substances) and also is the essential basis of reality.

Theosophy: Now, if you get higher than the concrete mental plane (abstract mental plane) and look for the chair again, you would bump into the idea of "chairness".

Frank: It is an area of purely subjective reality. So nothing actually exists as an objective observable form..everything is to do with subjective concepts.. and F4 is the source of all concepts that eventually manifest in objective reality.

Ascended Master Teachings: The identity realm. This is the highest frequency spectrum in the material world, and it is the first realm that spiritual light "enters" as it is lowered in vibration. Thus, this is where the light begins to take on the forms that will eventually manifest as anything from galaxies to your physical body. At this level is stored the blueprint for all matter phenomena.

Frank: This physical system was created from a set of archetypes or blueprints. The archetypes or blueprints are held within Focus 4 of consciousness. All the original models, all the original plans, etc., etc., in a manner of speaking, for our physical reality and every other physical reality within our system, are all held in Focus 4.

Now, as you can see these are all painstakingly obviously talking about the same thing.. but just in case we needed more:

Frank: When we engage with Focus 4 we become our 'Wider Selves'... Ultimately, sampling F4 consciousness can be a very rewarding experience when you get it right. Because then all your Wider Self is laid open for you and you can revel in the excitement and the enjoyment of it all.

Theosophy: The form aspect of the soul exists at the level of the abstract mental plane.

Leadbeater: All that we have hitherto attempted to indicate in this description may be taken as applying to the mental plane where functions the reincarnating ego — the true home of the soul of man, in which he passes from life to life throughout the whole evolutionary period.

Leadbeater: the reincarnating ego acts as a receptacle or storehouse for the essence of the man's experiences in his various incarnations.

Monroe: IT - The I-There that each of us has, containing all previous and present life personalities.


Monroe and Frank were like completely against religion and as Frank had said "didn't have a religious bone in [their] body". So it's interesting that their model of consciousness matches up perfectly with Theosophy, Leadbeater, and the Ascended Master Teachings which have their basis in religion. They obviously never read the stuff. Some of it having been written nearly 100 years now. So, no, it's not interesting nor coincidence. It's because these states, FoC 1-4, are integral parts of our being and obviously have some basis in reality.

There are many, many more examples that match up. The ones dealing with focus 27 and the akashic records I can't find right now and being that it's about to be new years I have to start getting ready. Happy new years!

To say that you can't have a roadmap goes against the experiences that so many people have in common. The mindset that you guys have is like the materialist scientist who refuses to believe in anything beyond the physical simply because there is no outer proof that can be agreed upon in an external way. It's that same mindset that you're imposing upon non-physical reality. And it gets us nowhere.

I'm basically saying 'hey this is what the landmarks are based on experiences of myself and others and what has been consistently said throughout time', and you say 'well there's more land beyond what's landmarked and there's other areas that you haven't landmarked so your landmarks are wrong, it's better to travel blindly.'

I'm not saying that you have to agree with the map, that it's right, complete, infallible, or even use it. But you can't tell me it's wrong. Especially when it's been agreed upon by pioneers such as Robert Monroe, people I have met like Bruce Moen, great minds like Plato, and the common man like Frank Kepple. And is being gradually verified by various members of the forum including myself.

Obviously the spiritual realm is everywhere. That's the nature of it. We can say God is everywhere but are you not still perceived as a separate, individual, limited being? As you said, it's a matter of perception. But as I see it we are all mainly focused in FoC 1 so that is our focal point from where we are perceiving. And from that focus, at this point in time, there is a material realm. And a spiritual realm.

It's like the people who say time isn't real. Well yeah the organization of time is a man made construct but it has a reality within this domain through the movement of objects in 3-dimensional space so it can be unproductive to not acknowledge it's existence.

Like I said u don't have to believe or follow it yourself. But notice how I'm not trying to impose my viewpoint on you. If you had read my post I made sure to say, I THINK, I BELIEVE, etc. I'm just sharing my information for whoever may find it useful. Isn't that what this website is for?

If you experience yourself One with All then you are having a spiritual experience. You are either 'in' the spiritual realm or are in contact with a being or higher part of yourself that is 'in' the spiritual realm. Therefore, I can label it spiritual realm.

The point I'm trying to make is that you can't map the spiritual realm because the nature of it is One and All and No Thing. However, there are non physical locales which are still a part of the material realm just as the physical is a part of the material realm and these can, and have, been mapped out to a certain extent for practical purposes.

I guess I can also say that once you reach a state where you are One with All and you're able to stay within that state or reach it whenever you want then you no longer need a map. However, if that's not the case then being able to pinpoint certain landmarks in order to get a sense of 'where' you are is very productive for practical purposes.

You have the Monroe model which agrees with the Frank Kepple model which agrees with Theosophy and the further development of the teaching. As we all know Monroe and Kepple were not religious or New Agey or mystics of any sort, they did not read or even have knowledge of things like Theosophy, and their roadmap just happens to be in full agreement with it? Not coincidence in the slightest.

So like I was saying there's a common consensus among these states of mind that can be mapped out to a certain extent. For practical purposes.

As regards to mental planes and what not..

This is my map based on Frank's model and other various teachings:

FoC 1 - Physical
FoC 2 - Emotional also known as Astral
FoC 3 - Mental AKA Concrete Mental/Lower Mental
FoC 4 - Identity AKA Abstract Mental/Upper Mental/Higher Mental

These are all a part of the ELS, the four divisions of the Material Realm.

The Buddhic Plane and beyond are a part of the Spiritual Realm and are pretty much indescribable as far as words go, so there's no point in trying to find and understand written descriptions of them. Basically, it's not important right now. It's like worrying about calculus when we've barely started algebra..

It is my belief that what we need to do is explore FoC 4 and from there we can receive subjective information on the spiritual realm. It is also my belief that FoC 4 is very important as far as our spiritual development goes. It's where the magic happens..

Also, through extensive studying I have come to the conclusion that the Library of Focus 27 IS the Akashic Records.

Permanently Grounded,

What do you mean by "when I try to have an OBE there comes a point where this visual suddenly becomes 3 dimensional"?

How do you try to OBE? What is it that you do?

Also, can you also describe what frame of mind you were in when this experience happened? For example, was this right after you woke up in the morning, a few hours before you normally go to sleep, during the day after a nap?

Selling my Laxman. Brand New. Bought it from Amazon for $550 usd. Will sell for 450. PayPal only. Don't miss out on this great deal!

I went to sleep shortly after that last post and while going to sleep I decided I would sort of phase to sleep by seeing how deep I could go before I fell asleep. During that session I noticed a few things. I think what's been messing me up is the way I've been focusing. At first, I would focus in a way where I'd begin to go deeper but then once I got deeper and felt a shift or sensed something I would focus in a way that brought me out of it.. So my problem would be my interpretation of the word "focus".

Basically for me there's a good way to focus and a bad way to focus. The bad way to focus is like seeing an attractive person and staring at them directly and attentively, analyzing them and noticing everything about them. The good way to focus would be like seeing an attractive person but only observing them with your peripheral vision. I think when we visualize we are using that good way of focusing. And when I'm trying to phase and nothing at all is happening it's because I'm looking dead ahead focusing directly on what's in front of me waiting and observing.

Anyways, I got pretty deep last night before I fell asleep once I started focusing properly.

You just create a good NP (Non Physical) focus and you shift. Just like that plain and simple, like when you go to sleep. When you lie down to sleep you turn off your physical focus and then you shift.

You guys are always saying you don't have to do anything, just start the process through noticing and it will happen. But then u say "and then you shift" implying that you're actively doing this shifting. How do you shift? That is the question. It's easy to get hypnagogic imagery. It's easy to get to the point where you start noticing stray energy. But how do you shift from there? Something must be done.. because laying there and not doing anything.. is not doing anything.

Thank you for the reply Lionheart. I was kind of indirectly gearing my question towards you anyways. I ended up buying the laxman like an hour after I made that post. Worst case scenario, I feel like the laxman will bring some kind of fun and excitement to the beginning process of phasing, which can be so boring sometimes

It should get here sometime during the week.. I'll be sure to post back with a review once I get to use it.

By the way, do you think you can send me that L#3 program? Thanks

I'm thinking of buying this Laxman thing. I have the money to do so. Just hesitant to pull the trigger.

My whole thing is.. okay, if I do like.. Hemi-sync catnapper.. or something along those lines.. during the day, I'll, 7 times out of 10, end up in this perfect sleepy-awake state of mind where I can project. However, most of the time its such an intense experience lol.. There'll be like this pressured ringing in my ear, my body will stiffen up and go completely numb - no physical output - and if I go along with it, I'll feel as if I'm shooting up very fast. My writing can't really convey how intense the experience is. Sometimes I go with it but I'll feel like I'm rising up for so long I start questioning where I'm going and it's such an unknown to me (and since it takes so long for something to happen) I'll just abort.

Therefore, I'd rather just phase. When I try to phase though all I see is this gray swirly cloudy stuff behind my eyes. Frank Kepple called it stray energy. Lets say for instance that this is a light focus 12. He said he saw it too but for him it would then turn into colored swirls (lets say that's a deep focus 12 or whatever) and from there the process would take off. For me the gray swirls eventually just go away and I feel like I'm back at focus 10 or C1. So basically I feel like I need to go deeper. I don't know why I can't..

So, I feel like the Laxman would help me out with this.. I feel like just by seeing the colored lights in the goggles will help me get to the next step to the colored swirls.. probably without me even noticing it happened with the goggles on.. what do you think?

Not to mention that the astral plane is not the 5th dimension so obviously this person has a lack of information and doesn't know what they're talking about

It's BS because OBEs have been written about since way before any MK Ultra or any bs like that.. There are accounts of OBEs in the Bible and other texts and literature from before the 1900's.. This is why I overemphasize that people read

Anybody heard of these?

http://sleepwithremee.com/

It's a sleep mask with LED's that are supposed to bleed through into your dream and make you aware that you're dreaming.

One of my friends who know I'm into astral projection sent me this link. I've told him about some of my lucid dreams so that's probably why he sent it to me. Anyways, just thought I should share. Maybe you'll be interested, maybe you've already heard of it, or maybe you already have some kind of experience with them and can enlighten us to how effective they are?

[lie behind]

Christianity evolved from an earlier belief system, and in that, 'God' was out there...'in the heavens' - and this was pretty much the way most early concepts rolled.

Christianity is derived from Judaism, which is based on the Kabbalah.

"Christianity began as a Jewish sect in the Levant of the middle east in the mid-1st century."

"According to most segments of Orthodox Judaism, the Kabbalah dates from Adam and is an integral part of the Jewish tradition."

The Kabbalah posits that God is within as well:

"In Kabbalah, Divine Light is the carrier of consciousness:

"The human soul is a part of the Creator [that is, Divine Light]. Therefore, there is no difference between Him and the soul. The difference is that He is the 'whole' and the soul is a 'part'. This resembles a stone carved from a rock. There is no difference between the stone and the rock except that the rock is a 'whole' and the stone is a 'part' (Yhuda Ashlag, Introduction in Ha-Sulam)".

"The Zohar (Hebrew: זֹהַר, lit Splendor or Radiance) is the foundational work in the literature of Jewish mystical thought known as Kabbalah. The Zohar posits that the human soul is the source of one's psychological nature."

"The Kabbalist model of the Cosmos is also pertinent to the study of a human being, and the origins of consciousness and Self. Like the macrocosm, the microcosm or Self originates as a point source of supernal light. Human consciousness has its ultimate origins in the Absolute, and is embodied in varied forms within the different dimensions of being. Between the egoic personal self, and the ultimate divine spark, there are the soul and spiritual dimensions of consciousness and being."

Basically, Kabbalah's Tree of Life not only details the creation and formation of physical and non-physical realities, but also outlines man's psychological
composition. Kabbalah is meant to be used to go within, learn of one's make up, resolve psychological issues and become aware one's Self. It's a map of our inner realities and ultimately suggests that God is within man.

"Kabbalists speak of the first aspect of God as Ein Sof (אין סוף); this is translated as "the infinite", "endless", or "that which has no limits". In this view, nothing can be said about this aspect of God."

"Kabbalah describes 10 Sephirot (The 10 Divine emanations or attributes), that reveal the unknowable Godhead to the creations and channel the creative life-force to all levels of existence. Kabbalah also describes a more primordial light that shines from the Ein Sof (Infinite) itself. This light, the origin of all Creation, and all lower lights, is called the "Ohr Ein Sof" ("The light of the Infinite", or alternatively, itself "The Infinite Light")."

"In Judaism the Torah was given to Moses, by God, on top of Mount Sinai. In the first chapter of the Torah, Genesis, the world is created in the ten utterances of God. Each of these divine surges of energy are what lie behind all reality. For kabbalists the ten utterances are linked to the ten sefirot, which is the divine structure of all being. The kabbalist looks beyond the literal aspects of the text, to find the true meaning. The text not only offers traditions and ways of thinking, but it also reveals the reality of God. One of the first Jewish philosophers, Philo of Alexandria (20BCE-40), said that Abraham knew the essential Torah, before it was given. He did this by looking inside himself to discover the laws of nature."

I could go on and on... so I don't know what you have been researching but there are pretty much no major religious texts of any seriousness that claim that God is "outside", "in space", "in the sky". Understand that when they do say "sky" or "heaven" they are metaphorically speaking to provide a concrete concept to something that is abstract so followers can begin to understand.. but it is not what they literally mean.

The Old Testament of Judaism and Christianity is one of the oldest texts known to man. But we can even take it back as far as Hinduism, which is the basis of Buddhism.

"The Rigveda of Hinduism is proposed to have been composed between 1700–1100 BCE making it possibly the world's oldest religious text still in use."

"In Hinduism, Brahman (ब्रह्मन् brahman) is "the unchanging reality amidst and beyond the world", which "cannot be exactly defined", but is Sat-cit-ānanda (being-consciousness-bliss) and the highest reality.

Radakrishnan, who is representative of the "Modern Hinduism", refers to Brahman as the Absolute or Godhead which is the Divine Ground of all being.

That supreme Brahman is infinite, and this conditioned Brahman is infinite.

Several mahā-vākyas (great sayings) from the Upanisads indicate what the principle of Brahman is:

"ayam ātmā brahma" in Sanskrit is translated to "The Self is Brahman" which is interpreted by Vaishnavism to mean "The soul is of the same eternal, spiritual and transcendental nature as Brahman."

"Hinduism identifies the Atman, the Self, with Brahman."

Again Christianity: "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you." - John 14:20. Thus, if you are within Christ, and Christ is within you AND within God, then God is within you.

Even Islam: "We believe In God, and in what Has been revealed to us And what was revealed To Abraham, Ishmael; Isaac, Jacob, and the tribes, And in the Books Given to Moses, Jesus, And the Prophets, From their Sustainer: We make no distinction Between one and another among them, and to God do we submit in Islam." - Quran (3:84)

"He who knoweth his own Self, knoweth God" - Muhammad

"Muslims claim that Allah is the same God as the God of the Hebrew and Christain scriptures, thus affirming that Islam stands in continuity with Judaism and Christianity. Muslims believe that all three religions share the same God and the same scripture..." - Islam for Dummies

Even to Native Americans:

"The Great Spirit, called Wakan Tanka among the Sioux and Gitche Manitou in Algonquian, is a conception of a supreme being prevalent among some Native American and First Nations cultures."

"At the center of the Universe dwells the Great Spirit. And that center is really everywhere. It is within each of us." - Black Elk

I could continue with other philosophies but I think you get the point. Anyways, I'm here to talk about astral projection, not religion or philosophy.

I may have misunderstood your reply..

But Christianity doesn't claim that God is "Out There".

Luke 17:21 : "The kingdom of God is within you."

It's the ignorance of those who say they follow christianity that make it seem as if God is "Out There".

There are a lot of things that I know exist, and even understand a little bit about how they operate, but can I say I fully comprehend them? No.

Regardless, these are knowns to Robert Monroe. Did you read his books? You would see how he came to that conclusion if you read Ultimate Journey. To refresh your memory, he had an experience where he went very deep within himself beyond the memory of his I/There's first incarnation. This was when he was trying to go through the Emitter but wasn't able to. Once this happened he remembered when he was once a part of the Whole, having to leave and enter the 'dream', or what he would go on to call the hologram, of our reality. This verified for him the existence of a Creator. And since he knew the Creator existed beyond the Emitter and since he couldn't get beyond the Emitter as a human being in his current state, he came to the conclusion that there was indeed a Creator whom existed beyond the hologram of our physical and nonphysical reality and that in order to fully experience (comprehend) this Creator you must be in a state where you are no longer a human being. Which in a way kind of agrees with Christianity for Jesus says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God - 1 Corinthians 15:50

Also, remember when Monroe left the Emitter he was given a Rote and some of that information was probably in the Rote he received.

[read]

Last summer I would have a bunch of these weird dreams all the time. It would start off with me in what I believed to be my house in my room. At this point it is not a lucid dream but simply just a very vivid one in full color to the point where I thought I wasn't dreaming and that it was real life; but I wasn't conscious like in a lucid dream. In the dream I would lie down and try to go out of body. I would feel real separation sensations and then be in a different body believing that I had just gone out of body, but I didn't really go out of body. At this point this very vivid dream has become a lucid dream. I'm very much conscious thinking I just had a conscious exit into the RTZ. But really I'm just lucid dreaming.

So one time this happened and I walked out the door of my house. Yes I used the door. I then went walking around my neighborhood. Yes walking lol So I'm lucid dreaming thinking I'm having an OBE walking around smh. Eventually I decide to fly around and now I'm flying which we all know is super fun. So like I said I thought I was in the RTZ (this was before I ever had a conscious exit) so I got the thought of flying into space at a 45 degree angle to go to the astral. I begin to fly upward diagonally but when I get to a certain height I start to fly horizontally and it's like there's a barrier stopping me from flying too high up vertically. This is when I put 2+2 together and realize I'm not in the RTZ I'm really having a lucid dream because if I was in the RTZ I would be able to fly into space. (And this is why I always recommend that people read). Okay so I realized I'm dreaming. I don't really know how to phase out of a dream when I'm in one and that's one reason why I'm writing this. I looked up into the sky and noticed the backdrop.. It's like a flat 2D border that I notice surrounds all of my dream environs. It was the night sky but as I looked into it thousands of yellow lights/stars pierced the sky.. like they were burning through the black backdrop. It was beautiful. I woke up shortly thereafter. I was in my bed but I knew something wasn't right. There was a body in the bed next to me under the covers (I sleep alone). I realized that I must be dreaming and didn't really wake up. When I came to this realization I also knew that the body laying next to me belonged to me. Looking around the room I noticed it was my old room in my parents house which confirmed I was dreaming and I woke myself up. I'm sure if I got scared and panicked from that body next to me that situation would've gotten ugly fast.

There was this other dream I had where I knew I was dreaming and I was in this huge, futuristic city full of skyscrapers. I was flying high above the city. The dream had a plot like I knew there was some antagonist in the city that was after me or that I was after. I had a feeling that this person could fly too so being in the air wasn't the best move. For some reason I had to get to my apartment somewhere in the city but I had no idea where my apartment was. I flew to the ground and thought well hey I'm in a dream I can teleport. So I closed my eyes and focused on the thought and intent of an apartment and teleporting there. I had never closed my eyes in a dream before and when I did this it felt as if I lost the dream and was waking up. I felt a distinct shift and figured this must be me waking up. Next thing I know I'm in a room in an apartment. The tv I currently own in physical reality was in the room so I kind of couldn't tell if I was awake or not. So I looked out the window and it was dark, gloomy and seemed like the aftermath of an apocalypse. It was like in the matrix when Morpheus showed Neo the real world or like in the new Total Recall where they had that one abandoned city where they had to wear masks when they went there. Yeah more like that Total Recall scene. After seeing this I'm not sure if I knew I was dreaming but I definitely knew I wasn't where I should've been. Looking around the room there was this cordless house phone on the floor and its charger was separated and I knew it was reconfigured to be a time machine. It had a headset and a screen. I put the headset on and it was set to a year I don't remember what year though. Far 2000 something. I pressed the button and was sucked into the signal.. sort of like in the matrix.. Next thing I know I'm in the same apartment but everything is bright and colorful. I look outside and it's sunny and there are people walking around and the beach and the shore are right there. At this point I knew it was a dream. There were two big tv's in the living room and a bunch of futuristic looking thin desktops and next gen gaming consoles from the future it was pretty cool. I went downstairs and I saw the sweetest pair of Jordan's at the doorway that I simply had to throw them on. I went outside and floated down the shore and flirted with girls and there were these vivid colors of light that swirled over and around the beach it was very beautiful.

In the last dream I'm going to talk about I had a conscious exit during a dream again. Thought I was really in the RTZ. Flew out my window. Flew around everywhere very fast. Anyways, eventually I realized I was dreaming and I wanted to go to the astral so what I tried to do was visualize a completely new environment. When I did this the environment of my dream collapsed leaving me standing in a white void. When I tried to recreate the environment there was like a painting canvas that appeared and what I was trying to visualize would just appear on the canvas. I imagined a blue ocean with a sun and it appeared on the canvas. Maybe I would've been able to step into it I don't know. I woke up after that.

I feel like those dream conscious exits were happening to get me used to the idea of separating and being out of body. Has anyone experienced anything like this?

I've also had a few other false awakenings and double false awakenings but they were not as fun as those last 3. Anyways even though I haven't had a lucid dream in a long time, and not really trying to have one, it would still be beneficial to know how to phase out of one into the 3D blackness or the astral. How do you go about doing this? Focusing on a part of the dream hasn't worked for me.. the environment collapses and I wake up. I've tried to read other ways to do it but I just couldn't understand what they were talking about at the time.

Awesome story! Great opportunity for partnered exploration

I was at a TMI workshop one day and there was this guy introducing himself to the group and I asked him how he got into out of body experiences. He said that he had a friend who was a martial arts instructor and had an interest in TMI and told him all about it. He asked his friend if it was possible to pull someone out of their body. His friend said yeah it should be. So one day after their martial arts training they sat down and listened to hemi-sync. The plan was that the martial arts instructor was going to go out of body and pull him out. After awhile they came back to wakeful consciousness and of course being skeptical he asked his martial arts instructor friend what was his excuse as to why it didn't work. The martial arts guy said, "I would tell you but you wouldn't believe me and then I'm going to be mad." He kept pushing him and urging him to just tell him the reason and after hours of arguing he finally told him. He said, "when I went out of body I saw you and there was another you on top of you beating you up. I asked if you could come out to play and the other you said no. I asked why and the other you said that you were in pain." Of course he didn't believe the karate instructor which made the karate instructor mad and they didn't talk for awhile. Eventually he went to TMI and had an experience that confirmed the prior experience. He said after hours of sitting in their CHEC unit looking at the blackness behind his eyes getting frustrated he finally said to himself "I want to experience something, anything, why can't I experience anything, why can't I go out of body?!" (something along those lines). That's when a hand reached up through the floor and pulled him out of his body. It was that other aspect of himself who outstretched a hand and said to him "we can go together". All in all it was a very touching story and if he ever ends up on this forum and sees this I hope he doesn't get mad at me lol I hope I did his story justice.. I just thought it kind of pertained to the topic of this thread and would be interesting to share. It was one of the few stories that stuck with me.

I know this thread was dying out but I thought it would be informative to quote the late, great Robert Monroe who said, "There is indeed a Creator... These to me are Knowns:
This, our Creator:
• is beyond our comprehension as long as we remain human
• is the designer of the ongoing process of which we are a
part
• has a purpose for such action beyond our ability to
understand
• makes adjustments, fine tuning, in this process as needed
• establishes simple laws that apply to everyone and
everything
• does not demand worship, adoration, or recognition
• does not punish for "evil" and "misdeeds"
• does not intercede or interdict in our life activity" (224-225 Ultimate Journey)

I would also like to point out that most major religions (including Christianity and Judaism) describe the Creator as an invisible Spirit that encompasses, interpenetrates, and transcends all reality.

Can't cross running water?? It's damn near the 4th dimension there's nothing stopping them from teleporting to the other side!