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you guys should check out dreamviews.com to clear up a few missconceptions.  

Great site. It must've changed since the last time I was there because I don't remember it looking so good.

However, they have a section of their forum called "beyond dreaming,"  which includes OBE's and such. So I'm not sure where you're going with that suggestion.

It is a great site. Most of the members arnt as rude as our jay dawg friend which is good to know. Jay dawg has taken a liking to mumbling one liners, Im not too sure where he is going with the clear up a few misconceptions comment either.

Another like forum that is excellent is stephen leberg's http://novadreamer.com/discus/

In order to post you have to participate in a research survey he is conducting. Some of the members are those who have participated in leberg's dreamlab experiments at Stanford. They are quite a seasoned and rational bunch.

If unfamiliar with leberg's work here is an article  which defines his types of lucid dreams. Subsequently the RTZ projection/astral type is included but called something else. http://www.lucidity.com/VOLDE.html

Jaydawg,

Maybe you have to keep repeating yourself because your a complete moron who lacks the basic social skills to hold an adequate discussion. Other than that i would refrain from making any more posts, your meager attempts to sound like someone who is intelligent, thought  provoking and interesting amongst other things make continued discussion with you impossible.

Jaydawg,

I agree with you in thinking that the vibrations arnt too glamorus and one should be weary of assigning some kind of higher value to them, it very well could be a bunch of synapse left with nothing to do, not a very exciting explaination. The thing is about this step in the sleep cycle is that the vibes can be seen as a ready made indicator for impending(dream/ap/oobe whatever you want to call it) activity. It doesnt really matter what the person believes the vibes are as long as it serves a function its ok in my book.

[1. Will you see ghosts the very first few times you AP,and if so will they try to talk to you or glare and stuff? Also,what do they look like?]

1. Will you see ghosts the very first few times you AP,and if so will they try to talk to you or glare and stuff? Also,what do they look like?

You may see some ghostly apparitions. Whether it is a ghost or not, who knows. I wouldnt worry about any ghosties glaring and stuff at ya. If you get uncomfortable give a laugh and poke fun at their glares. Tell them to "shoo, move along, there is nothing to see here."

2. Is it really true that you will see colors that are not normally seen by the human eye? Ex. I get my first OBE and my room has colors that I've never seen before.

I always thought that we were wired to see a certain set of colors and nothing beyond. maybe your friend is an alien.

3. Are the sounds while entering/exiting your body so loud that they scare you right back in? Because I have a tendancy to get freaked easily,lol.

Yea, but you know what, you start to expect it and get used to it, youll see it as something normal and not something to get freaked out about.
In the beggining it may be a door slamming or a random loud pop, brush it off, there is really nothing too glamorous about it.

4. If you have one at night,will it be night in the AP world? Same for day to?

Seems like most of the time if it is night-time when you project it will be night-time when you are "out". I find the the more dream-like quality projections dont follow suit.

5. Is your first OBE scary,or is it so cool that you forget your freaked out?

Its a bit like being on your first roller coaster. Think of what comes to mind when your at the top of the hill of a rollercoaster about ready to shoot down to a ride of your life. You may be screaming to yourself" I KNEW THIS WAS A BAD IDEA!!" but you go ahead and do it anyways because you are the adventurous type. Its much more lively if you open up, yell out and enjoy the ride, the same goes for projecting.

6. I heard that when you look at your physical body while APing,it looks so wierd that it scares you right back into your body. True?

Do you get so scared looking at yourself in the mirror? Its just you laying there, you have control and can come back whenever you want.

7. Will you see other APers while APing if you leave your home?

I guess that is possible. i havnt bothered to find out if they are actually other people aping.

8. How long did it take you to have your first OBE?

quickly.

9. Do you feel all your normal emotions? Or are some eliminated?

You feel all of them and then some. Looking for scenarios to heighten your feelings is one of the nice things about projecting. Many times the feeling from the experience will carry over into your normal life.

Well, I have had yet another peculiar experience; after 20 minutes of deep relaxation and staring into the space before my eyes, I began to have the sensation of a buzzing, similar to an electric massager, over my upper-most chest, in about the region the throat-chakra is said to reside; the feeling was about 1 foot in dimameter, and was acute, until it subisded minutes later.

From this information, can anyone make a statement? "Vibrations" was my first guess, but I cannot make any conclusions; if this was the case, how would I procede form there? I tried diligently to maintain focus for an "exit", but none was forthcoming.....

I would get similar sensations too, they happen on their own upon going to sleep, i dont know what it is. I have been able to use the sensations to elicit a projection. If the sensations are already not intense then i focus on intensifying them as much as possible. Mentally some kind of momentum is created by intensifying the sensations until they will spread to the whole body at which point things become automatic and "out" you go.

Maybe try following the sensations you are getting. Try not to resist the actions you may be feeling if you are at all. follow, watch and intensify.

I guess the colors could act as a good anchor for your waking mind to watch as you fall asleep, but i wouldnt attach any particular higher value to them.

Hi:

Great topic though I shall refrain from publishing details about my lifestyle. People wouldn't believe it anyway and it would appear rather extreme when compared to the average eating habits and activities of a person living in modern-day western society.

Speaking of extreme diets. I have a friend who is on an only raw food (including meat) diet. He eats raw beef, fish, pork, eggs and milk right from the cow without fail.Believes he can live to be 300 years old by doing so. He does look fairly young for his age but im surprised he hasnt gotten tape worm yet.

In any event, perhaps people would get the wrong idea. They'd maybe get to thinking that living as I choose to do, is a necessity to being good at this. Of course it isn't.

In my experience, the main factors that significantly affect a person's success at this art, are their Beliefs, coupled with their Intent, Expectation and Desire. These factors are inextricably linked in the same action-equation in consciousness, with the overiding accent on beliefs I would say.

Yours,
Frank

I agree with this very much. Diet, smoking, play too little a role in bothering what is important to succeed.

I havnt gone into a movie screen, but into a picture. Seems like if you could go into a picture you could also go into a movie screen.

I entered into a painting of a nighttime town landscape, literally pulled myself into the landscape by grabbing onto the picture frame, hung off of it within the picture and let go.

You can also do reality checks whenever you see something that happens out of the ordinary or is something that could happen in a dream. This kind of conditions you to do the same while dreaming where out of the ordinary events will be much more common.

hey Eagle,

1) i agree with sarah about positioning. There is nothing set in stone as to what position you have to be in to project, people are too different for it to be that way. on my back seems to be working the best right now, lying on my side is a little too comfy and i fall asleep pretty easily. something inbetween too comfy and too uncomfy is usually ideal, but ya never know, play with it!

2) I havnt really measured this but i think i get more WILDs and lucids on my back than on my side. Whether you get a WILD or a regular lucid dream probably has more to do with how you are mentally going about the process rather than the position of your body. On a scale of one to ten, ten being most important factor in the oobe process and one being least i would say the position of your body gets about a four.

3) Dont know if you can vocalize while oob. i dont see why we wouldnt be able to as people talk in their sleep all the time. It would be a pretty cool finding if someone were able to say some preplanned words while being measured in REM.

A couple of things that come to mind:

If your lying on your back you may want to try tilting your head back which will lift your chin and open your airway more as you sleep. If you sleep in this head-tilt/chin-lift position it can be a little uncomfortable but not so much as to limit relaxation. Some even say that a little discomfort can facilitate in the oobe process. Sleeping like this will also make you breath through your mouth deeply which could dry out saliva. This position should take care of any swallowing reflex you are having because of excess saliva or because of your tounge slightly obstructing your airway. You might have an urge to swallow because your tounge is starting to close off your airway a little. This also works good for people who snore if you have a noisy girlfriend/boyfriend.

also try sitting up in a chair.

When i was about 16 my brother had come home from an occult shop with a book on astral projection. I cant remember the name, it had a bright blue cover, i think it was called astral projection or astral travels something like that. The approach was VERY esoteric and the parts that i read would have  had you drawing things in chalk around your bed. I vaugely remember chains being involved at some point too.

Upon reading all the rituals involved i put the book down, but had a RTZ projection the same night. At first i didnt know how to get out, i thought i was supposed to "exit" from my mouth, the vibes and all felt so physical.

This goes to show that the vibes presence arnt due to suggestion( since they were not mentioned in what i read), which some people might have you believe.

im going to give it a shot as well.

Hi:

There is no such thing as pre-obe vibrations. There are a number of bodily phenomena that can give vibrational-type states. It has been, in the past, that people may have experienced a vibrational state and subsequently "exited" their physical body. But this is by no means necessary. Times move on, technology changes. This work is no different. Unfortunately, in this we are a bit behind the times, so to speak.

In other words, look to your own guidance and not to some outdated mystical stuff that may well be just nonsense dressed up as a legitimate technique.

Yours,
Frank

what does using the vibes as a sign of dream activity have to do with mysticism?

I have experienced what I think are pre OBE vibrations some time ago. I havent felt them since and I have been unable to recreate them. So.. What im asking is...

If I wait long enough through meditation, will these vibrations just recreate themselves?

I dont think you will get too much out of waiting for an oobe to occur. Taking an involved approach makes more sense. Some people dont need to involve themselves all that much in the process. If feeling for vibrations upon going to sleep lead to an oobe then you have found a useful way to recognize pending dream activity.

you can also try to willfully open your eyes as you would any other part of your projected double. Feel as if your eyelids are moving open.

Stephen LaBerge proved that lucid dreams occur in REM state. So people claim that only difference between AP and LD is that while APing you are aware of whole separation but in LD you don't remember separation. That's why I asked is AP occurring in REM sleep.
quote]

Hi AP!,

Stephen showed that a good number of the lucid dreams we have occur during typical REM stages, but not all of them. I believe in the study that showed this the outliers were wake induced lucid dreams, which in my case also happen to be RTZ projections. I can remember having only a couple wake induced lucids that didnt follow typical RTZ projection characteristics, ie, vibes, sinking, floating limbs, shooting out like a bullet. I would say in my limited experience that aps and lds are occuring in your mind as frank has said but i do feel like there are innate differences between both.

Once youve stimulated a projection response enough it doesnt really matter at all what you are thinking as the projection is happening. The projection can act like a natural reflex. You could be thinking about when you should do your laundry or reciting the alphabet, it will happen by itself. You can stop it though if you are really really scared and tense up.

Sight in a physical body is simply the interpretation of energy (photons hitting cones and rods on the retina, which generates electric impulses which then propagate to the brains visual centres) by the brain/mind.  We should also consider how powerful personal perception is though, and so this might not be the case and I am just babbling :p

Haha! Babble on Mister Jingo! You surely have some good ideas forming there. There was a study done with participants hooked up to PET scans that had asked the participants to look at an object and then close their eyes and imagine the same object. The study partly showed that the same areas of the brain became active when the participants imagined the object as compared to when they physically saw the object. This could perhaps tell us that the brain doesnt differentiate between real and imagined once the info has been integrated. I can see how personal perception can be a big thing while oob.

http://www.globaldialoguecenter.com/emoto_exhibit_flash.html

Using high speed cameras the photographer took note as to the form crystals made within the water when coupled with concentrated thought.

We are over 90% water, its a wonder what our thoughts can do to us.

Hi Astral Projection,

About time: Time seems to be able to speed up and slow down oob simularly to how it can while awake. Time flys when your having fun and a watched pot doesnt whistle come to mind, you are definitely affecting the world of reality you are conscious in, especially when it comes to time, yourself and your environment.

You dont have to be in REM to have an oobe, although the chances of having and oobe while in REM is higher than when it isn't.

Hi Star,

One thing that can work is to consciously move whatever sensations you are getting to the desired area. Lets say you are getting strobing in your crown and you want to move it to your throat, slowly and consciously feel the strobing moving down through your face, under your chin, down your neck to the sternum notch, rest the sensation there and feel and let it intensify.

sounds like your getting real close. Images gotten pre exit can lead in someway to a full exit. The images that lead to exits are always acting on their own(in my case), any kind of action on my own part as far as questioning what it is or manipulation of the image does nothing. The images often evolve into some kind of explosion which is when the full exit takes place and when it does the exit is also explosive as you may end up far above your location of projection.

I guess i would have to say dont let the image distract you, i know thats easier said than done, but approach your relationship with the images with a playful observant attitude, see what happens. A lot of this is trial and error, it seems.

i doubt any bill introducing mandatory flu vaccinations would ever pass, but now a days ya never know. i havnt gotten the flu ever since i stopped getting the flu shots. i stopped getting them because i would get sick anyway. there are a host of other reasons why people get sick, especially when it comes to epidemics, that are not medically related. Sanitaion is a good one, one of the best ways to keep yourself from getting colds and flus is by washing your hands often.

Is this about smoking or death?

we had two bodies to disect and look at: one who was a heavy smoker and one who wasnt.

Michael,

Was the other body a light smoker? Either way, they are both dead.Is there such a thing as a healthy corpse?

The smoker died 40 years before the non-smoker. The non-smoker, although in her late 80's, generally had healthier looking organs, especially the lungs. They both died from heart failure.