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I have never experienced sleep paralysis associated with AP.

And I could count the number of times I've had SP in my 30 years of sleeping on one hand.

Try something different. Hit up Xanth's website and try some phasing or something.

I'm gonna say that these ideas were created by humans to control other humans and they are meaningless beyond any meaning you put in them.

People always seem to grapple with these ideas of good and evil, which is often related back to our rational fear of darkness (night) and rejoice at the rising of the sun (day).

There's a fun idea out there about a cataclysm that destroyed civilization some 12,000 years ago, and the remnants of humanity that survived were emotionally/psychically traumatized. That trauma left a scar on our collective psyche and induced an amnesia of the actual details, like PTSD. We don't remember why, but we have a fear of some kind of doomsday and that fear has informed our beliefs on good and evil in a superstitious way. What was once a detailed history of great cataclysm turned into religion and fear of god/devil or good/evil. Super neat stuff.

Of course, if you're not into the scientific explanation (and I understand if you're not as science has become a religion in its own right), you could always take the taoist/star wars perspective in that both are necessary parts of reality/psyche/humanity/whatever and must be in balance. I'm not of that opinion, but if it helps.

Things are. I see no need to classify them. Everyone and everything has their own motives, generally survival in some form. That doesn't mean ill or good will is intended.

Yea, I've commented on this type of thing before. I really don't think you can analyze anyone's dreams but your own.

The images and scenarios you see are only symbolic in the framework of the dreamer's perception, their paradigm.

No two people have the same perception of anything. Even if we might agree on the meaning of something, in truth we have completely different emotional reactions built on years of experiences unique to ourselves. Like we can agree on what "red" is, but the color symbolizes something completely different in me than in you. Personally, I don't find red to be an aesthetically pleasing color, but for others, it's their favorite color. A lot of that has to do with experiences that shape how we perceive that color. The same applies to anything symbolic, especially in dreams. That's why dream interpretation is mostly nonsense. There are ideas of "archetypes" in our collective consciousness, but even that I would debate. Archetypes have come to mean things to us because we identify them, but there are other explanations for how two cultures separated by thousands of miles and hundreds of years could have the same symbols meaning roughly the same thing (like a lost progenitor civilization whose last surviving members seeded cultures around the world? or whatever).

Point being, that dream only means something to your friend, and it only means something in the context of their symbolic perception. So, the impetus is on them to explain it, not you or us.

Yea, all the time.

Years ago I tried to put some "spiritual" or "psychic" meaning to it, like it was that person's astral body i was seeing.

I have since stopped believing in things like an astral or energy body that can act separate from the body.

So nowadays, I just take it to be my awareness overlapping two different states of focus. Like partially focusing on my everyday perception and partially focusing on a dreamstate.

That understanding hit home a little better when I started seeing people that weren't in my home, and people who didn't even exist in my everyday world.

I know it's old, but I feel that A person.

Again, I'm a cynical dude, and I too easily associate buzzwords and catch phrases with nonsense new age philosophies trying to rebrand age old systems of control.

I'm not interested in unconditional love for anyone but myself.

That said, I also feel that if I love myself unconditionally, I will love everyone else as reflections of myself. Not in the "we're all part of the same whole" kind of way, but in the "what you hate about the world is actually what you hate about yourself" shadow self kind of way. So, once I love myself, I will in turn find nothing to not love in the world out there.

All of these concepts of prayer, love, selflessness, etc., just get in my way. They are hindrances to me following my path.

That doesn't mean I'm a jerk though. I am always kind and generous. I just feel better emotionally when I'm nice to other people in action. Verbally, I'm a jerk most of the time. But I've made a habit of helping others whenever they need it. I don't try to analyze that and morph it into my personal philosophy. I'm just nice because I'd hope people would be nice to me. 

[you]

I got in the shower before and thought I would do one after it. I put some deep meditation in in the back ground and layed down on my bed. Started listening to it. I got myself into a relaxed state, breathing was just about right, thoughts where coming to mind, I left them go, slighly had some pressure on my forhead, achknowleded that and let it pass, I had very light vibrations, what disctracted me from this was that I had a few itches on my body. Once I itches them I returned back to where I was, then the vibrations kicked in, I keep with it this time. Still carrying on with my breath, starting to get more intense and intense. When his happens I start to feel like I am in a still place. It was nice and peaceful. My head felt like it was rocking side to side and I just wanted to open my eyes because it was annoying. But I carried on..... in my mind I was that at peace I started seeing birds, nature scenes and it made me more relaxed.I notice that my body has went rather numb, then suddenly I see this white light and next minute i felt a big blast of pure enegy run up and down my body! It felt so strong and vibrant. It felt right, I have made progress. I stopped my meditation and am rather proud of myself.

What do you think about the pure blast of enegy

What do you think about this energy?

If it were me, I'd say that I was feeling some sensory confusion in my brain/mind. Sometimes when you're shifting your focus away from your body, your awareness senses some kind of sensory information, but it's "abnormal" relative to the average sensory input you receive in "waking life". I'd say, my awareness was making sense of some stimulus the best way it knew how, and that translated as some kind of energy surge.

Are blue and green the same thing?  In some languages there is only 1 word to describe these 2 colors as we distinguish them in English.  "Objectively" light is a spectrum and all the colors merge seamlessly into one another.

My point is that states of consciousness are probably similar.  We could make lots of distinctions if we want, but then if we have to justify those distinctions in some way, what could we use?  Best I can figure is that if you can AP, come to my house and tell me something that you couldn't have otherwise known, then I will consider what Robert Bruce calls the "real time zone" and consider it distinct from a lucid dream.  But beyond that I'm not sure how you would distinguish the two in real terms.

^word.

personalreality I agree with what you are saying.    I could be lying there and nothing happening so I do an ap technique.   Some weeks ago I did not get any vibrations.   I imagined I was leaning forward and I completely came out of my body.   The problem was it felt very real.   I thought I was physically getting out of my body so I wrecked it.    I thought I will have to go back to bed and try again.  I zapped straight back into my body.   I do different ap techniques to get out of my body and I do not have any ap sensations.   

It's definitely tough to get used to. I mean, when I first started actually projecting I had been practicing and working up to it off and on for several years. I wasn't afraid of any of the AP superstitions, I was completely prepared for the experience. Or so I thought. The first few times were traumatic to say the least. It is such a new experience in so many ways and no matter how much you prepare, it'll still catch you off guard. My heart would feel like it was racing, when I did get vibes they were shocking, I would sometimes think I was actually standing up or falling or something and be jerked back to focusing on my body, etc. etc.

In time I acclimated though. That's when I made changes to how I perceived AP. I had a lot of dreaming experiences that were so much smoother than my conscious exit AP experiences. I figured that there must be an easier way and I adopted more of a phasing method. Now, when I have an otherworld type of experience, it's just as simple as being there, not here.

I started my practice of AP once again now that I've got more time for it and I took it back to where I was. I can get to phase in a scenario on which I have no control, and once I am ''there'' I forget that I was trying to phase so I am not conscious at all. I don't know how to keep my awareness since I got to let it go in order to successfully phase. I might write a topic on that soon enough to get help from more experienced people even if I think I'm gonna have to solve the problem by myself in order to get past it.

It was hard for me too when I started.

For starters, I don't really know what actually helped me gain more control, but I did gain more control the more I projected consciously (that is, the more I sat down and intentionally entered an OOB state, not just achieved awareness in a dreaming state).

However, after a couple years, I stopped making "conscious" attempts to have OBEs and started opting more for gaining conscious awareness in dreams. It took a while and it was hard, but once I taught myself to "wake up" into a dream, the whole control issue kind of disappeared. I then found it a lot easier to do all kinds of stuff in this LD state. And for the sake of clarity, I consider AP, LD, etc., to be the same thing. Here's the weird part that threw me off at first. Generally, in a LD I became consciously aware in the middle of a dream already taking place. So it felt weird, like I was watching a movie and suddenly entered that movie, taking over the role of an actor who was playing me in the movie. Only, I wasn't that actor and I had experienced the early parts of the movie like they had. I felt like the outsider, like an alien who didn't understand the social taboos of the people I was with. It wasn't until I realized that once I took over that role, I could stop the movie, scrap it, and go about my business that I realized this experience was the same as all the other nonphysical type experiences I had induced in other ways.

It was something about that experience of taking control and then totally erasing the environment of the dream that I interrupted and building something new that changed the way I experienced and behaved in the otherworld environments.

I know that's probably not helpful, but it's hard to quantify such subtle actions.

What? sorry didn't understand the sentence lol. Please explain.

He's saying that your odds of winning wouldn't be any better by picking the numbers from a "future" projection than from just getting random numbers. Not, that we're "above all that", because believe me, if I could use projection to satisfy the needs of my physical body in the materially based society that we live in, i absolutely would. I wouldn't make gaining that kind of advantage from projection my goal, but I understand that my physical body must be cared for and if I could get those needs taken care of, while also allowing myself more free time to pursue the pastimes that help me grow creatively and spiritually by picking future lotto numbers, I would. I just also know that the numbers I might divine in a projection experience aren't anymore likely to win that numbers I pick in waking life. It just doesn't work like that as far as I can discern.

If someone says that they are above seeking something like lottery numbers in projection experiences because they are more "spiritually evolved" and those things just aren't important, they are full of BS and are deluding themselves. Everyone has bills, everyone has to work. I wouldn't seek material gain for greed, which is probably what those types mean, but me not being greedy doesn't mean I don't still have to pay rent.

Echoing Xanth, they're all projections, ditch the labels. Expanding on Xanth, drop "projections".

You're not projecting anything. I hate that word.

You're just changing the focus of your attention. Right now you're "looking" over here. In your dreams and APs, you're "looking" somewhere else.

Forget about trying to nail down what you're experiencing and experience it, right?

You are like me in that regard. I've always been so cerebral. I HAVE to define my reality constantly. It's overthinking. No good. It's taken me years to let go of my obsessive need to identify and define everything. I've really had to commit to just saying f**k it and watch what happens without trying to quantify what happens.

Alternatively, you could try something else?

Do some mental exercises.

Who do you trust in your "waking" life?

When it comes to my experience, I trust no one.

Here's the issue, we have become a psychically stunted species. Whether there is anyone at fault is irrelevant. Our daily lives are buried under mountains of reinforcement of the physical and nothing else. So, for all we know, these "entities" you're interacting with are cosmic pranksters. Maybe they aren't much different from us and just like to screw with us. The problem is, we just don't know.

Maybe you have faith in your "spiritual intuition" or whatever, and believe you can feel the truth or something. I'm unfortunately a little more cynical. My "non-physical" sensibilities are heavily tainted by my body's filter. Maybe I'm feeling what I want to feel and not the truth. Even if I've spent oodles of time training myself to be ego-free that's really just nonsense. You need your ego. You can lessen your attachment to it, but you can't, and shouldn't, dissolve it.

You've had however many years on Earth perceiving reality through your body. Compare that to the relatively minuscule amount of time/experience you've had perceiving something other than your body's reality. The truth is, you've got a lot of body experience to overcome if you want to experience a "pure otherworld" (not that you necessarily would or should).

This is evidenced heavily in your question. You're applying your body's earthly sensibilities to something that is decidedly otherworldly. Maybe this notion of "good vs evil" or "light vs dark" or "positive vs negative" is solely based in our culture on earth. I mean, psychologically speak it is. Once upon a time, before well lit cities and internet, the sun was the light bringer who staved off the perils of the night. An important part of every pre-firewielding man's day. The day time (light) is good because it's safe, the night time (dark) is evil because it's dangerous.

In my experience, no one is free of self-interest. Even the most noble philanthropist still has selfish concerns, even if that concern is for the survival of his/her species. Practically speaking, sometimes this trait is beneficial to individuals. So maybe you should just trust a stranger offering you help, because it could turn out well for you. But hey, even if it doesn't, what's the worst that could happen?

On a side note, I wouldn't trust people like the Dali Lama as far as I could throw him. He was chosen as a child and raised in the psychologically programmed paradigm of his culture. He's just a guy like anyone else, bound by the restrictions of his belief system. Enlightenment is just another religion that makes big promises. Don't compare anyone you're trying to vet to what your ideal of an enlightened or spiritual being should be. You don't know their mind.

Ultimately, it's silly to try to apply our conceptions of morality and ethics onto a being that doesn't live in our paradigm.

It really doesn't matter.

Physical or not, the goal is learning how to "stimulate it". Maybe it's an energy point, maybe there are nerves connecting your forehead to your pineal, maybe all of that is garbage and it's just a really useful way to separate your perception of "sight" from your physical eyes (because the third eye point is so close to your actual eyes).

The point is, focusing on that spot (physically/energetically/metaphorically/whatever) is a tried and true method of dissociating from physical perception and sensing something else.

Your "third eye" isn't doing anything. You are doing something.

It's not the spoon that bends?

What is wrong with focusing on the vibrations.   I do it a lot and that is how I ap.   

What happens when there are no vibrations and you're stuck not knowing what to do?

Vibrations should be seen as a secondary "symptom", not the cause. It's easy to make a habit of waiting for vibrations and they may not come.

These kinds of signposts are useful in the beginning, but they can become a hindrance in time.

In truth, "projection" can be as easy as changing a channel. No vibrations, no exit, nothing; just here, then there. In order to get to that point, you have to learn to achieve this state without aids.

So, while vibrations and other signals are useful, you don't want to cling to them like they are necessary. I suppose that's the point we're trying to get across, use them, but don't rely on them.

Out of the entire infinite expanse of universal experience, it says a lot about life on this planet that we would think to exercise our magical talent to gain arbitrary numbers in some cloud based computer program based on imaginary currency that holds no value other than that which we, on Earth, attribute to it. The universe laughs at us.

Also, I would demand my winnings in gold bars.

Good call Still.

At first I was thinking to myself "No way, I don't do that," but then I thought again, and you're right.

Sometimes I have seen myself as "better" than others because of my spiritual knowledge, but I notice this to be a bigger issue in my practical life. Mostly concerning things like politics and general philosophy these days. While I don't believe in anything in particular or hold to any specific philosophy, I have been classified an an anarchist, which is probably true in some regards. As such, I find myself almost looking down on people who still believe in political and religious systems. And in some regards, rightfully so. I really do see myself and humanity as being "above all this", but that doesn't always play out practically.

I often find myself sifting through facebook, talking to my wife, her mom or sister, or just watching the "news" and thinking, "What's wrong with these people? Why don't they see how stupid they're being?"

While on an idealistic level I feel that I am right, we are all in this together and we're letting other people manipulate us (which, from my time studying psychology, religion, marketing, etc., I know to be true at some level), on a purely practical level I know it's not that easy.

I'm sure there is a profound lesson I could share from these realizations, but i'm not going to do that.

Good post. Thought provoking. Thank you.

LE GASP! 

right?!

i'm shocked too.

If you spend some time learning how to control your mind in waking life it will translate into your 'dreaming' life.

I've been talking about this in the Astral Pulse Facebook chat.

Start doing things in your waking life that will teach you to quiet your mind and focus.

My personal examples are all physical activities (not traditional mediation) that help me "zone out" (enter alpha state).

Like today, I whittled a piece of wood for like 2 hours. No purpose or end goal, it was just an activity that quieted my mind. I also like to chant/drum, garden, walk, take pictures in the woods, clean something, etc. Whatever you can do to "zone out" (though "zoning in" would be more accurate). I try to find activities I can do in my everyday life that I can turn into meditation exercises. For example, at work (I manage a bar), I'll take all the liquor bottles down, clean them, put them back. Or maybe I'll turn counting out cash banks into meditation, which is something I do for 15-20 minutes every day anyway, so why not let it become meditation?

If you do this regularly and intentionally, you become familiar with altered states and learn to control them. Perhaps you're more into martial arts or something? Try tai chi or aikido or whatever. It's all moving meditation. It's all about altering brainwave patterns and becoming adept at it.

After some time, this control of your mind/focus will become habitual and it will translate into your nonwaking states.

I thought we got over this whole "vibration" thing years ago.

Stop expecting certain "tell-tale" AP signs.

It took me years to have my first successful otherworld experience. It took so long for me because I was waiting for vibrations and sleep paralysis and blah blah blah.

Let that crap go.

Keep practicing, but don't expect anything. Just do the exercises and roll with whatever comes. If the wake induced stuff is causing insomnia, stop. Try something else. I'm just like you in that regard. The only time the whole Wake Induced Lucid Dream type approach works for me is in the morning when I wake naturally. So, basically, on the weekends, lol.

What has always worked best for me in inducing an 'astral projection" is to make my attempt sometime in the afternoon when I feel like a nap. Then do your exercises.

The point being, if it's not working, try something else before you get stuck in a practice that just isn't for you.

Does it matter?

If it's real, cool. We're interacting with the universe. We're feeling the pulse of reality.

If it's not, cool, We're interacting with our own mind/soul/whatever. We're feeling the pulse of our personal reality.

I think it's a win win.

Plus, you might say that both the universe at large and our personal realities are really the same thing expressed in different ways.

Maybe. Who knows? I don't. But I don't care. You'll never definitely define your reality. Just experience it.

Do what thou wilt. It is what it is.

It's cool Ricochet, I never dug Tom Campbell either.

Short answer, probably.

Echoing Xanth, don't focus on the vibrations (hard to do, I know). Just keep pushing your focus, your attention, somewhere else. Sometimes the vibes come, sometimes they don't. if they do, just push through them. Literally, act as i your mind is pushing through a sound wave. Visualize the vibes as a sound wave if you have to. Just push through, then anchor your mind onto some location that you know well. Somewhere that you can visualize well, like a room in your house, or a favorite trail in the woods, or sidewalk, or wherever. Try to put all your senses in that other place. See yourself touching your bed, smelling your room, hearing the sounds of your house, etc.

Just keep going. You'll be fine.

It's difficult to assess your experience as it's your experience. So the best advice is to keep trying it and see what happens. Symptoms of OBE are tough to nail down and people experience them differently. Just keep at it.

Quills,

I didn't see that post, but I'll give you my perspective on what I suspect you're talking about with Xanth...or were last spring, lol.

In my out of body experiences I could only ever maintain the state for a limited amount of time, a few minutes maybe. So, an easy analogy was to express the experience as something running on energy or "fuel". If you have enough energy available, you stay out longer. In a sense, that is true. But perhaps not in the sense that was expressed in my post. We can still use that metaphor, but now your fuel tank is more like a measure of control that you have over the focus of your perception. So it's not something that you fill up regularly with some ambiguous energy. Rather it's like a power generator that your fill up and will keep running with minimal energy requirements.

I don't like this metaphor. Scrap it.

It's just about practice. When you first start these expeditions of the mind, your focus of attention is habituated into your normal, everyday physical perception. Because of this, it's harder to keep your focus on the so-called "out of body" perceptual experiences. However, over time, and with practice and repeated experiences, maintaining your focus on the "out of body" perceptions becomes easier. it's not a function of energy, it's a function of ability. once you learn it, you'll be able to stay out practically indefinitely if you so choose. of course, if you stop for an extended time, you'll have to "refresh the fuel tank". but it will come back quickly.

Yea.
So trust Xanth.