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we each have direct access to all that consciousness "knows".

Actually, I believe that also. We are already all that is at the core but we have all these layers or filters in place to separate us from our "I Am" or greater consciousness to play this "Earth game."

So, in theory, we should be able to in certain situations when our filters are down, (near death, OBE, some drug trips,) be able to access that info and our past lives as well, etc.

They haven't FULLY died here yet and that might be an important part.  It's "NEAR" death... not "PERMANENTLY" died.

First, I'm very happy you liked the post! Thank you for reading it. The opposite points despite they seem kind of "duh" to me now, still took me many years for all of that to sink in.

Anyway, I agree with your comment above. We truly don't know when the point of death is nor can any of us know what happens after we die for certain, how it works.

But, I can say that in quite a few NDE's, some folks bodies were reallllly messed up or near death for quite a while to where they should have been dead and still came back.

But, yeah, who knows any of this for certain. I do know people's brains can't learn stuff magically that they did not know before. So something is going on while they are near death.

If you find yourself there, then great! Just relax and gently observe; don't push or force anything. Just Notice the depth and velvety texture of the Void. The lights are apparently not stars, but they are significant. Many times, as you Notice, the depth and texture of the darkness may begin to shift and swirl slightly. Your attention may be drawn to one light or group that may begin shining more brightly. Continue your detached, casual observation and you may feel a sense of movement towards that light or area of darkness. Allow this to happen at its own speed and you may experience a direct shift into another NP environment. Don't try or expect to go somewhere of your choice; something beyond you will choose your environment and there will be a significant lesson to be learned there; so go with the flow. The Void is a great way to travel and learn! Volgerle has an excellent thread labeled The Void, above in this forum.

I enjoyed this paragraph in particular. It almost felt hypnotic in the way you worded it, in a good sense.

So, I've written far too much at this forum today, thus I'm going to chill out for a day, or two, and do other stuff. Thanks for this post. Lots of stuff to try out now and more info to read, like the doorway, phasing, etc., links.

Nobody can say the people here are not helpful!

All of those that you mentioned above Lostsole, attribute to any form of non-physical experiences. It is not just that way in a NDE or OBE.

Agreed. I think you misunderstood my intentions, or maybe you thought I was implying those other experiences are not important. That was not the case or my point.

My study at the time was focused on NDE's, that genre subject was my "launching pad" that converted me into a completely different life and belief system. I've expanded into numerous other things since, as touched on in my other threads. Like you, I'm multifaceted.   

And, indeed, what I've said covers other types of non physical experiences or can be experienced in those. NDE's are just a part of the whole.

I posted these older observations I made to assist any who may still be in doubt that these experiences are tangible and real. My post is in no way meant to negate the importance of one's own personal OBE/AP, etc., but rather to encourage the same by increasing confidence and faith in the subjects.

As for hard skeptics. I learned twenty years ago their minds are made up. I don't bother with them, it's a waste of my time and theirs. They are happy where they are at.

My question is, did you find what "you" are looking for? You can read all you want on NDEs and the subject of non-physical exploration. Until you have your own experiences, that's all they are is just "stories".

I actually don't agree with you entirely on this one. If one is open minded, then the experiences of others can cause great evolution in a person. After studying those many NDE's years ago, I was changed entirely as if I had gone through my own NDE. Everything in my life turned upside down, in a good way.

So, they were not just stories, they were powerful testimonies for me at the time. But yes, ultimately we all who are deeply dedicated on this particular journey need to "get out there." It is why I am here posting on this forum now vs lurking years back, when I was less sure of what I wanted.

As well, there are numerous average folks who are never going to pursue their own OBE, or whatever, but coming across NDEs or channeling, etc., still wake them up and evolve them along their own paths without necessarily having personal experiences. My wife, siblings and other friends are perfect examples of this. Stories matter.

Some will pursue further knowledge on the subject. They will find though that this is not a subject that is easily spoken of, without some form of ridicule.

This is true, but times are changing. All the obscure things I believed and learned many years ago were ridiculed by nearly everyone I told about it back then.

Now days, folks are becoming far more open. Society is waking up, albeit not quick enough imo. As an example, this waking up is evident in numerous new YT channels on these non physical subjects and tens of thousands of supportive comments that would not have been there ten or fifteen years ago.


 

Guess it's my day to make some posts. Lol. I hope they are helpful?

Anyway, I got thinking, my twenty years of studying NDE's, the knowledge gleaned, might be helpful for newer people who wonder if the OBE/AP, and other supernatural phenomenon are real or not. I know I used to wonder.

NDE's are at their core, out of body experiences, so I feel this post is right on topic for this forum.
 
In researching phenomenon like this for decades, there's a point you cross statistically, where these sorts of experiences are real without question. And, going with Occam's Razor principle, the simplest answer is often the best, then the probability post one's studies, is that the supernatural being real IS the simplest/best answer.

The materialist explanations then start to seem like mental gymnastics that are downright silly.

So, after about a decade of reading thousands of NDE's, I personally connected a lot of dots. Some of those dots I summarized in an essay I dubbed "Opposite Theory."
 
What is opposite theory, at least in my meaning?
 
It is when people have an experience that is opposite of their life conditioning, or they gain new knowledge they would not have had before that is opposite of what they would want to learn.
 
One could argue, maybe all of these NDE experiencers read NDEs/OBEs before they died? Fine, if you want to say that during the internet age. However, if you go back and read experiences from the early 1900's or 1800's even, then the features are the same clear back then.
 
There was no internet in those years gone by to easily learn what NDE's are like, and in fact, the further you go back in time, the more fearful people were to talk about their experience lest they be thrown in a mental ward.
 
So, with that said, I'll share a shortened bullet points version of my essay with some examples.

#1. The Life Review

- Most people have been conditioned to think of Heaven, Hell, judgement, God, Satan, etc. Even the non-religious will often think in these terms, despite they don't believe in religious concepts.
 
- Therefore, why do nearly all life reviews of NDE's have the following attributes that are opposite of people's conditioning?
 
- No judgement of any sort, save judging one's self, which you don't have to do.

- No literal "Heaven" or "Hell", or Satan.

- The life reviewees are put into the experience of everyone they affected in their lives and feel how they made others feel, good or bad. However they made others feel, then goes out in an energetic wave affecting everyone else.
 
So, in other words, the person in the life review may step into and feel dozens, hundreds, or thousands of other people's feelings that were all caused by the life reviewee's direct actions while alive.
 
- Imagine Hitler. He may have been placed into the souls of millions to feel directly how his actions affected all of those people, their children and even children they did not have because they were killed.
 
So, the above is pretty wild and typical people would not ever think of that sort of thing that happens in a life review. Therefore, it is opposite of most people's life conditioning, yet remarkably consistent in the life review between many people who did not know of each other prior to their NDE.
 
#2 Told to go back/work to do

- Most NDE's are told at some point it is not their time, they have work left to do, WHILE they are in the middle of a typically heavenly experience.
 
- Most say they did NOT want to come back but were made to.
 
- Therefore, this is opposite of what most people would imagine, or their minds would "make up." If it was a hallucination, then it stands to reason, the experiencer would choose to stay in the heavenly place and not return by force to what can often be an Earthly hell for many.
 
#3. 360 Vision

- Many NDE's go to the other side and their vision works in a 360 degree format, where they can see from all directions.

- As you know, throughout our lives, we see forward with two eyes. If the NDEs were the brain hallucinating, why make up this 360 degree vision? Why would nearly everyone that mentions it, all have this similar vision type of experience without knowing the other NDE'rs?

- 360 degree vision is opposite of most people's experience of vision.
 
#4. Telepathy

- In our normal lives, we all talk with our mouths, correct? Telepathy is the subject of movies and fiction. We know what it is, but we don't do it.
 
- In the collective NDE experience, I can't think of an NDE that the experiencer did not use telepathy to communicate.
 
- Therefore, yet again, this is completely opposite of people's conditioning of how they talk to one another. Why does everyone use "woo woo" telepathy on the "other side" if it is just a hallucination?

#5. Colors, Sounds, Music

- All of us are used to the standard colors, sounds, types of music, etc., that are in our environment.
 
- Numerous NDE'rs mention colors they have never seen before, sounds or music that is impossible on Earth, and so on.
 
- So, if the NDE is only a hallucination, why are so many people making up the idea that there has to be colors, sounds, etc., that they have never experienced before? This would be opposite of what we would expect.

#6. General Beliefs

-   Along the lines of what was said in the life review section, consider that most religious beliefs are based around NON New Age/Eastern Spiritual. Many people are Christian and believe in the bible for instance.
 
-   However, many Christians find experiences like the NDE/OBE to be demonic in origin.
 
-   But, then Christians who themselves have an NDE, often come back expressing concepts that are against their original beliefs and have New Age/Eastern Spiritual leanings.

-   Or, Atheists who come back and did not believe in anything, also come back with New Age/Eastern Spiritual leanings.

-   In both cases, these changes or additions to their knowledge are opposite of their conditioning.

-   In some cases, the person may not have even been aware of New Age/Eastern Spiritual teachings. I know I wasn't when I was religious, decades ago. Therefore, how did they learn knowledge they did not know?

-   This would be especially true of children who have NDE's and do not have many pre-conceived notions, yet also can come back with "New Age/Eastern Spiritual types of knowledge. How?

#7. Oneness

- Nearly all NDE'rs speak of "Oneness" or that we are all connected. Most average people do not think in terms of being connected to everyone else, the Earth, animals, etc.

- Thus, this is another example of learning the opposite of what we would expect.

# 8. No time

- We all live in this realm under the dictates of time. However, nearly all NDE's speak of there being no such thing as time on the other side, rather, everything is occuring at once.

- Thus, again, if the NDE were a hallucination, why would all of these people's brains come up with the bizarre idea of "no time?" That is opposite of everything they know regarding time and is even impossible to comprehend as humans.

The main take away is, once you read enough deeper NDE and/or OBE experiences, across the centuries, and across all various population, ages, and belief types, it becomes apparent that it is impossible for all of these people to have similar data that is opposite of what they believed, or they didn't know at all.

I've only given some of my examples of opposite theory, there are more, but this is long enough.
 
Anyway, so I propose, statistically speaking, that something supernatural is occurring. NDE's and OBE's in most cases, are not hallucinations of the mind, but are genuine experiences beyond the normal physical body.

Hope this helps someone. I may expand on this post if I think of anything important that I forgot.

I'll take a new posts break for a while now. : )

I will add a clarification for my original post. I said "most" NDEs a lot. In saying that, I meant most "deep" NDEs. And, specifically deep NDEs with those particular features.

There are numerous NDEs where people just pop out of their body for a bit and then pop back in. My essay is based on the deeper and more profound experiences that have similar commonalities. NDEs can be pretty different despite having some things in common.

Some features like "no time", "must go back", "oneness" are very common. In contrast, life reviews  are not very common, at least not the deeper ones. However, when people do have them, they are similar in scope.

Think of it like visiting Earth as a metaphor. There is blue sky, dirt, birds, rocks, etc., all over the place on Earth. Those sorts of things are common features. However, the many locations of Earth still differ dramatically in other ways.

For anyone that doesn't know and has interest, NDERF has a vast collection of thousands of them. I recommend starting with reading the exceptional NDEs here. https://www.nderf.org/Archives/exceptional.html

The standard ones are here. https://www.nderf.org/Archives/NDERF_NDEs.html

Correct LB, I agree with all of that completely, but the point of my statements was for evidence that these experiences are real and not just figments of the imagination. That's all I was saying.

I may make a post about the study I did. It may help newer people to have more faith that their experiences are tangible, not fanciful.

Back on your change points, the 1000 page spiritual/fantasy trilogy I wrote years back mentioned elsewhere, was based in part on novelty, and that the God of the story's entire point of everything was to experience the new, and that change was the only thing you could count on to be consistent, as you said. Perpetual evolution!   

As LB wrote- the occasional voice(s) in your head can be from many reasons particular to you. Have you ever answered them back, asking what they want or what information they may wish to impart?

Oddly, to the best of my memory, I've not answered them back. Since it's typically my mom or dad's voice, rather I just sit there and wonder what the hell was that? Lol. But, you are right, I should do that. Maybe it's my guides using my parent's voices to get my attention, and it works!

I do have an interest in channeling and have always wanted to do it, but hearing my name called out is about all the deep info I have to impart to anyone that I have gotten "from the other side" anyway.

I read your post and your original experience, which honestly, was quite similar to reading one of the more profound NDE's. In other words, quite spectacular of an experience to have without the dying aspect! Nice!

That is precisely one of the main genre type of experiences I would like to have someday.

The only thing I've had that was cool in that sort of way, (far more minor though) was one of my deeper turn of the century meditations, again using Hemi Sync. It was another time I awoke in the middle of the night with the binaural still playing in the headphones. I had heard the drums, chimes, etc., except they were way off in the distance as if I were nowhere near my body. Maybe I wasn't?

Anyway, after that, a "Heavenly Choir" started to play/sing music and it was incredible for the duration it lasted. Never heard anything like it before or since in meditation.

Also, you said this in your initial post. "We only observe what we currently know. Our thoughts lead the experience. That's why blind people can't see in dreams."

About ten years into my NDE study, I wrote up a study sort of essay as a different tangent of proof that the NDE's were real phenomenon, not hallucinations. I dubbed the paper "Opposite Theory." I won't type all of that up here.

Anyway, the paper basically set out to prove through people having the opposite of their life conditioning  or their knowledge base, that coming back from their NDEs with information they could not possibly have known prior, would not have been normal for their "brains to hallucinate." This would be a bit like the autistic savants who can play a piano like Beethoven despite having never learned piano.

You mentioned the blind in your comment. Of course in the NDE, blind people have been known to be able to see, which is pretty cool.

And to just give one example of several from my paper. Why does a Christian who prior to their NDE, may have believed that the NDE itself is a demonic type of manifestation, why would they come back later from their own experience with New Age/Eastern types of spirituality or experiences that is exactly the opposite of their life conditioning? They may leave their church completely. Same with atheists and others who may not even know those types of belief systems, but come back with a rather full knowledge of it afterwards.

Pretending I had an NDE back when I was religious, I likely would have come back with a lot of New Age/Eastern spirituality types of notions that fell way outside of my religions beliefs, and those notions I was not even aware of at the time. I only knew my religions teachings. Thus, how would my brain have fetched info it did not know? 

To the mods, maybe this would be more appropriate in the experiences forum? If so, feel free to move and assuming anyone wants to participate? We'll see.

There are reams of stories, journals, etc., on this site going back many years. I've lurked through many of them over the years.

Regardless, it's a lot to dig through to find those perhaps not so common, high quality, specific "gold nuggets" of wisdom folks might have gleaned while OBE/AP.

I thought it might be nice to have an easily accessed "treasury" of the best of the best of your gold nuggets/diamonds of learning, if that hasn't been done already elsewhere in the forum.

I personally like to read what people have learned directly from going to the "other side." Tom Campbell, Monroe, Buhlman, Darius Wright, etc., to name a few who have shared much.

But, Tom also says, each experience is unique to what a person might learn. I'm sure there are tons of wisdom bits people here may have tucked away in their knowledge base from going OBE/AP.

So, if willing, what are one or two of your most profound, deep learning experiences while OBE/AP?

What can you tell us from your POV of how reality functions, how dying plays out, how dimensions work, healing, or whatever you might have learned from your guides, higher self, ET's, dimensional exploration, etc.?

Those are just a few of infinite paths of learning on the other side, I would imagine.

Please share if you feel so inspired? (I've not had an OBE yet, so I don't have anything formal to put in the treasury just yet. Someday soon!)

Note: I always put "other side" in quotes, because I realize there's not really an "other side," but rather an ocean of multi-dimensional frequency we all exist within and without. However, it's easier than saying all of that. Lol.

The best deepening technique I have found to use during the beginning stages of creating a NP focus is initiating a "mental motion" forward. Move into that darkness before your closed eyes.

Lots of great ideas there. The one above would probably be best for me, because focusing on the darkness is my go to and the way I've had numerous meditative experiences, save OBE's. And, like I mentioned elsewhere, that darkness for me, often turns into a vast starfield, or used to at times turn into a light as bright as the sun. That was always cool and hard to look at. Seemed NDEish.

But, when I have something to follow, I'll go with it. I'll have to read your Doorway thread and more about directional focus also. I need to finish the phasing thread also. Thank you for sharing more ideas for me and others.

That kind of thinking will take you far in this practice.

Thank you. My intentions are quite firm. : )

What I did not understand and till don't is all of the unnecessary physical torture that the person goes through.

THIS! 100% I mean, WTF?

I'm so very sorry your wife as well had to endure that sort of thing.

For what it is worth, as you know, I read a lot of NDE's. In many of those, the person would pop out of their body just before intense pain, drowning, being run over, on and on. Thus, maybe, in the case of your wife and my mother, perhaps they were OBE during some of the worst parts and we were just witness to the body dealing with the pain and not the soul. When they were conscious and speaking to us while going through the pain, then I don't know.

But yeah, wow, the cancer eating through her spine situation would be just awful beyond words. : (

When this happens, I really hear them like they are next to me in the physical room and (as if) with my ear organs. It is creepy to say the least.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. The Mickey Mouse voice sounds cool and creepy at the same time! My male dog's name is Mickey, and the girl is Minnie.

Anyway, I wanted to add, like you said, there was one time, the name calling indeed did sound like it was outside my ear, or in the room. That was back around the turn of the century. Most the time though, it is within my head but from a different position then where I would place my normal thoughts.

Interesting experiences. Thanks again!

Nothing to worry about and nothing unusual. There are many possibilities of the actuality of who and why is calling our name. When you AP you can ask to see that person and why are they calling you.

Thanks for your great response as usual LB. I would not say I was worried, more just curious how common it was. I do realize that we are existing within a multidimensional state and all this stuff isn't out there per say. We are it, swimming in energies of all sorts.

Regardless, it is strange and it's always my name, not anything else, like "how the hell are you?" or, "I saw you pick your nose," or whatever.

So yes, my intent to AP/OBE is specifically to find the right sort of beings/higher self, etc., and to ask questions. I think I'm now maxed out of getting my education from channelings, psychics/mediums, NDEs, etc., and want to have my own experiences out there or meet my own "buddies" on the other side to pick their brain about my concerns. That's not to say I won't continue reading other sources, but it is time for direct experiences all these decades later since I woke up.

A few weeks ago, I had a OBE experience from my bed that had an Entity taking on the appearance and voice of my wife that transitioned last year. For some reason, I knew it wasn't her. The Entity though used her appearance to mask it's own. Why, I have no idea. Other than the fact that it had a good reason to. It seemed like that experience was some kind of alignment, healing or attunement.

Well, first and foremost, I'm terribly sorry to hear that your wife passed Lumaza. : ( I would be utterly heart broken if I lost my wife despite I know we go on 100%.

My elderly father has sure gone through a hell of loneliness since my mom passed on Christmas day, the one before last. And, she died screaming in horrific ongoing pain for weeks from Encephalitis of the brain and shingles going on at the same time. Really tore him up, well, all of us kids also. To make it even stranger. My mother's mom (My Grandma) passed on Christmas day also, ten years earlier. Merry Christmas yet again.


Anyway, yes, that is a strange experience. Seems like it could be both good and bad in a way, stirring up memories, losses, tough emotions, but at the same time getting a healing, etc.

I'm not particularly fond of the idea of entities playing as someone else. I would prefer they be truthful and be who they are. I mean, maybe if their form is not "normal" to us, perhaps it would be startling, but nevertheless, I would prefer truth to fiction.

You may be right, just something to question or raise something in me, or even some entity just messing with me and my wife. It still happens to this day off and on.

It's cool that you help people move on. After my wife's father passed this spring, we started having lights in our home blink subtly fairly often which did not happen prior to his death. We both wondered if it was him saying hello, or if he was stuck in the astral?

Quickie question for anyone who wants to answer.

Have others of you had similar experiences to the below and if so, what do you make of it?

Both my wife and I on quite a few occasions have had a voice pop into our heads out of the blue when meditating or sometimes when just trying to sleep or wake up.

The voice always says a name and in my case, it's always my own first name said to me, as if being called out to, to come, but in an almost angry or upset way.

My wife has heard names other than her own called out.

When this happens, the name comes in much louder than my thoughts and seems to originate in another part of my head, perhaps closer to my ear.

The other odd part for me in particular, is the name is usually said by my father (not deceased) in his exact vocal inflection or at times my now deceased mother. It is clearly their voice and they usually will sound stern/firm in how they state my name.

Again, it's very loud, clear, and right out of the blue, so much so, it is quite startling and not a part of my normal thought stream.

One of the times when the mom voice said my name, she swore right after like she used to when alive, when she was frustrated. She was very religious and rarely would swear.

One of the names called out most forcefully in my wife's head years back we could not place and had no meaning to us, but it sure startled her.

Anyway, it's weird.

EscapeVelocity, yes, I agree with your points about the man, and I do very much wonder why I was shoved out! It was quite the strange experience.

Maybe I would not have liked his stupid frequency realm anyway. Hmmph! "Astral pouting"

Xanth, That's great advice and I will add the deepening more so concept to my routine. I mean I'm sort of doing what you said by focusing on the black void in front of my eyes and ignoring my body/thoughts, but perhaps not as deep as I should.

I used to often get a universal looking star field to look at the deeper I went. When I got a visual of the star field that was clear, I knew I was getting somewhere.

But anyway, yes, a deeper focus on those items away from the physical. Thank you for your comment!

I will add in here, I also used to at times get a very bright light come into view, almost as if staring at the sun. I've not had that to look at in a long time though.

I will do all of that, and I will certainly keep asking questions!

Part of the fun... hmm, yes, I suppose? Lol!

Referencing the original Willie Wonka movie.

"I want an OBE Daddy, and I want it now!"
"All right Wonka, how much for an OBE?"

On the affirmations, I like those. I'll copy and print out. A few of them I was sort of doing in my own way, but you added a whole new "dimension" to them. Pun not intended.

Thank you for all of your help!

I'll let you know when I have met with success, because I will meet with success!

The key is- as you work to understand your personal method for achieving an exit, these are the qualities to notice and interpret. If you get kinesthetic sensations, go with it; if you are getting visuals, then go with that.

In your case, lostsole, you are getting visual snippets, which points toward Dream/Astral experiences. So, to me you sound like a guy piloting a plane down the runway about to take to the sky, and wondering why it doesn't drive like a car... 

I liked all of your post, thank you! The last bit I'm sure is accurate. The story of my life has been a slow learner, often going in wrong directions, "wrong controls" but that once I do learn, I usually excel at the task. I'm also a person who likes to build a skyscraper when only a small house was needed, also known as a number 11 in numerology. In other words, I over do and over think what should be simple in scope.

Anyway, thank you for those explanations. It can get very confusing even though I've studied these concepts for decades now from numerous differing spiritual sources, listened to countless channelings, on and on. It's still a big mess in my mind how the other side may work. And, I know people here are trying to figure it out also, but getting down to basics is helpful.

I have been enjoying what Darius has to say about the "other side." He's got some interesting viewpoints. Of course I never take anyone's perspective as gospel 100% for myself, as that is their experience as Tom Campbell would say.

So yes, I'll work on those other items from earlier and also for now, do more observing, and go with what best presents itself as an opportunity, visual or otherwise vs try to force my perspective of it.

I have been dispassionate and unemotional about things in that state, as I learned that lesson in the past losing out on my big moment. I think what you said earlier is key for me, getting relaxed and what LB suggested also.

I believe another part of the problem is I programmed myself from reading so many NDEs that any OBE I have should be similar to the OBE of those types of experiences, and sounds like it can be, but not necessarily, per what you said about Robert, etc.

I need to keep reading the phasing thread link also that was offered up in my other thread.

And, what I've noticed so far, is most of all, I need to have my head in the game, thinking about it off and on throughout the day, studying, reading, affirmations, and making it my full on intention. Just that alone got me some vibrations going that I've not had from sheer will in twenty years! : )

You may be relaxed enough to experience vibrations, but that is no guarantee.

Yeah, sure isn't. I have been doing a little stretching, holding my limbs tight for a bit and then relax, or my face and jaw, etc., prior to mediation. I keep my mouth fully ajar. But... I am always too hyper aware of my physical body much of the time. And, my neck is always tight while my calves are usually uncomfortable. Anyway...

On affirmations, I think I've been doing a good job on that of late. I've been telling myself it happens now, that it's easy, I have the ability naturally, on and on, vs that it's a struggle, I'll never succeed, I don't have the gift, etc., that I sometimes would tell myself in the past.

So, in addition with LB's suggestions, it sounds like I need to do more of the WBTB, etc., to improve my odds. And, some energy work. I think I've done that, if we are talking about the same thing, but not so much in the present.

Thanks for your time in commenting! 

I simply start imagining that my bed is swaying from side to side.

Back during the turn of the century meditations, I would actually feel swaying, or rocking, sometimes quite strongly. So, you are imagining it up front. I've been trying to imagine energy and vibrations, so I'll try some movement ideas, and the other items you mentioned also, thank you!

When I know that my physical body is awake and I am just in deep meditation, the differentiation is difficult, at least for me. I do try in occasions to project from that deep state of meditation even when I feel mild buzzing, but I never succeed. My senses are still perceiving the physicals on some level and that prevents me from fully dethatching.

Yep, that's me!

So when you succeed, what you describe then sounds like your body is in a state of sleep paralysis, like what my wife goes through, and at that stage it's a "moo point" to quote Joey from the Friends series.

I've not to my memory had a full on experience of sleep paralysis, and were I to, then I can likely project or move "astral limbs", etc., from that frozen body state, which will be most likely to occur within broken sleep, or maybe early AM waking. 

I do admit to a bit of jealousy that people like Darius and others I've encountered can just pop out willy nilly if they feel like it.

I'll keep on practicing. Thank you for your time in answering me!

Thanks LightBeam,

Your teen years sound a bit like what I'm dealing with. Funny thing is, I did read one of Bulhman's books a long time ago, but I don't recall any of it now. I'm only barely getting back into this after an almost twenty year absence.

Like you said, I think it may take me being asleep in my personal case, and it's when waking from sleep that I have had the most powerful energies, sounds or whatever, so I hear you there. I probably just need to keep at it as you suggest for weeks, really set my intentions every day and so on.

I was genuinely surprised to feel the vibrations the other night even just during a basic meditation. It gave me hope.

All that said, I've still read numerous OBE experiences (and a handful of books) and some do speak of moving your arms or legs at the right time, or opening your astral eyes, or whatever, then popping right out of one's head, etc., so that question still stands, for those who go OBE in that manner.

How do you differentiate that you are now ready to move an astral limb/open eyes, or whatever and can tell that you are at that phase, and not just moving a physical limb, or rolling your physical body, etc.? Even if I personally never exit that way, I'm still curious how you know?