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So any use of substances would impede the validity of the experience, compared to the sober mind? Someone who's an experienced APer, has a couple drinks/puffs, then successful projects. What's different between the sober AP (duration, recall, control...ect) compared to the AP accompanied by substances? Not saying get right blasted, just enough to feel the effects on the mind. What differs between the two?

I'm not talking about totally mind altering drugs, just the more common recreational ones.

So you wouldn't just try it out of curiosity? I wouldn't rely on such things to help me AP, I was just curious to see, in the experienced APers mind, what differed if one was to have a drink/puff before an AP.

It's scary 

Aha yes. I have tried the search, it's usually far from what I'm looking for.

Have you ever tried to have a drink or two then project? Does it make it harder or easier to AP? How is it different from a sober AP? More/less vivid? More/less control?

I'm just curious, i would try it myself but I have yet to induce an AP 

What are your thoughts about how different substances affects your ability to induce AP/ alter AP experience? Or if any would help to AP or what would completely prevent an AP?

From what iv read online most people say that it's better to AP clear minded, and that substances 'muddies' your aura, but some people say otherwise. Just preference I presume, but I want to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks.

I understand what you're trying to say Xanth, but when he tovtm says that his GF was at work when he distinctively heard his GF say something, does that mean it is possible to project at two or more places at once? Or could this be an illusion(for lack of a better term) that he has created for himself? Or that his gf mearly thought that and he had  heard it?

Like not interacting, but observing?

Oh ok so she is present in her dream but her dream characters reflect her thoughts?

I've always wondered if it was possible to AP on command with out any preparation such as mediation. I will no doubt give this a listen when I have the time. Almost like controlling your body from a 3rd person perspective.

So your saying that your dream consciousness is spread over your dream characters? Your not actually in the dream? Sorry I'm finding it hard make sense of what your saying

From what you said it seems to be wild. That's what usually happens to me when I wake up in the morning and go back to sleep. Maybe because my mind is still in dream mode but I'm conscious when I go back to bed.

That link really helped alot. Easy to understand. I agree, need to be a sticky.

Never mind I just read a post that pretty much answered my questions, but thanks anyways!

Ok ok, so would it be fair to say that the WILD technique is the samething as inducing a projection? You lay there, relax your mind then go to any scene?

I just can't wrap my head around the concept.

Can't you reach AP through LD?

Thanks guys  

I will search, but if unsatisfied I will ask  

I myself am not a Christian, nor do I believe in any religion at all. I do not look down on any religions, seeing them as inferior to another. This is my personal belief, I do not have any intentions to discriminate but I see the practices of religions, the books, story's of Christianity, Muslim, Judaism, Buddhism ext. as a way to put something so complex as sipritualty into a simpler form so many people comprehend the concept. most are very similar in the way of the 10 commandments, stating that we should love and help eachother. Care for our earth. I strongly believe in this.

A story: I was at a bar waiting to get in. When this boy was handing out a little book, asking people to hear the words of Christianity. People were laughing at him and just being rude. This made me so mad, Even though it's not what I believe in, I took the book and listen to what he had say. Not because I pitied him but because I wanted to hear what he had to say. We talked for 30 mins about what his beliefs were, and I told him what I believed in. He didn't try to change my mind, he accepted my views and referenced them with some of the stories and passages portrayed in the bible. It totally blew my mind how relative the bible was to my views, but just said in simpler words. This got me thinking about all religions, as I said above. I thought about this all night and could not get over it. What I'm trying to say is that we need to stop discriminating, stop hating each other because our believes maybe weird, because thier different. because it's not what you believe in so it's wrong so they talk down on as a way to cope with thing that they do not understand. I find majority of people are like that, but in the end...we all bleed red.

I get the general idea but like...explain

Iv had this happen to me, except though my window and I got caught up in the blinds. I was so sure I could pass through but as I proceeded I thought 'I dunno about this...' It was a very vivid lucid dream which is why I think I got stuck because you can't fly through windows in real life. It just felt to real I suppose, couldn't get over the fact that I was flying through a window aha

It's seems like your trying to force an OBE. Should just happen naturally. It takes years for some people to intentionally OBE. I myself have never done it, I'd say I'm at the same level your at but iv been using dreams to get OBEs. but maybe one of the veterans can provide some more insight 

What really helped me to become lucid in my dreams was wrighting down all my dreams and doing realty checks. You ask yourself several time throughout the day "am I dreaming" and try to put your fingers through your hand but you have to mean it. Do it when something seems off in reality. In your dreams your fingers will go through your hand that's when you know your dreaming. Or you can wright a letter on your finger and look at it throughout the day. Also a real head start into dream memory is setting up and alarm every hour and wrighting down your dream then go back to sleep. I become lucid every night, usually after I wake up and then sleep again, sometimes create my own dream (WILD teq). If not lucid exptremly vivid. I can hold lucidity for long periods of time, it's all about not becoming too excited. If you feel yourself loosing your dream pick something from the dream an really focus on it, the color, emotion, texture, ext.

I hope this helped!! Happy dreaming!

@Szaxx it almost seems like everyone can do it, well... everyone does do but doesn't have the subconscious intuitive to experience what we experience. it seems like the older we get without the knowledge that the astal pulse provides and other sources, the more ignorant/uneducated we get. the more we get involved with money and 'property'  the more we get lost in society and the corruption that comes with it... but im just ranting aha  , society chappes me out 

 that's so extraordinary because i was having a dream with my girlfriend where she was holding my hand and i told her "think of astral projection, or think of her grandpa (she told me she wanted to walk with him because he had passed and she really misses him), but before, the scene was dark and gloomy, and i talked to this man who who was a suspicious individual who in the same dream passed though me and gave me negative, dark vibes. after continuous talk with this man i made him break down and cry as if it was the key to the astral. this is when the dark vibes almost lifted but the scene was still dark  (every time i ' projected' it was always dark and didn't fell right), that's when all of a sudden my girl appeared on my right hand, holding it, interlocking fingers. that's when i told her " think of the astral...^^" we both closed your eyes and then open them, and everything was bright and happy, the scene had totally changed. there was this man that she stared closely looked at and she said it almost looked like him, but i was sure that i was to inexperience to contact the decease as it was so high up on the astral realm. she was in tears as she brought out a picture of her grandpa and someone else. what really got me thinking as when she woke up and told me she was sad, this maybe far beyond me or just a coincidence, what do you think?

Is it possible to AP with someone who isn't projecting?

I will take that into account next time i am faced with a tunnel. A tunnel to the astral? I thought about the planes before i went to that place with out an actual image or experience to guide myself on, and this is where takes me? a tunnel. Im going in next time, without hesitation.