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I'm not the least bit qualified to answer this one, Stookie. Like I said, I've only 'been' there a couple of times. For me, that's not nearly enough experience to begin to describe 'what' it is. And the times I were there, I didn't become anything, like Frank mentioned.

The only thing I can say, is that when you are there, you are more naked than anything imaginable in the physical. I don't know how to describe it. But imagine standing completely naked in front of a group of people. Then multiple that feeling by 100. Essentially, while in that area of awareness, nothing is hidden. Its more than just having people see every part of your physical body, like in the example I gave above. Instead, they see everything about you. All your strengths, weaknesses, faults, virtues, etc. Absolutely nothing is hidden from anyone.

That's all I can explain about it at present. Although, that doesn't really help you much. Sorry!

Stookie makes a VERY good point about manifestation. You need to be careful not just the object you want to maninest, but keep in mind the means by which you will receive it. It reminds of the movie Darby O'Gill and the Little People (yes, I'm dating myself -- but nobody say anything!)  

In the film Darby captures the leprechaun king. Now he has 3 wishes to make (similar to the whole genie in a bottle concept). When he's in the pub telling his friends about the king, none of them believe him. He knows the king can make himself invisible to others, so he uses one of his wishes. He tells the king he wishes all of the people in the pub could see him (him being the king). The king agrees. Darby holds out the bag for everyone to look into. They all start laughing at him. He looks in and here the king let them all see him...but he turned himself into a rabbit first, so all they saw was a rabbit.

When making wishes or anything related to the concept of manifestation, you really need to think through a lot details before proceeding. It's not as quick and easy as everyone seems to think. Of course, I'm speaking theoretical here. I believe in the concept, but I've never done it myself.

Another thing to consider in the karma debate is that an individual who has understood a part of his karma, may be put in that situation again not for their own personal benefit, but rather as an example for others. Haven't you ever seen someone in a terrible situation and they do something that absolutely moves you because it is completely opposite of what most people would do? They 'take the higher road' as they say, even though society would have completely justified a more retaliatory response.

My understanding is that karma is not reward/punishment. It is about lessons learned. You will find that you repeatedly face the same situation over and over again until you change your reaction to the situation. Once you do that, you find these situations fade from your life.

I'm not sure I believe in karma as it is currently understood, but I do believe in the general concept of it.

Kailaurius-
Glad to see you have similar experiences. I am far from the 24 hour mark, but I'm persistent. As you say, I have my ups and downs when it comes to maintaining it. However, one nice 'side effect' I personally have noticed, is that the more consistent I am during the day, the easier it is during the night. Meaning, my quantity as well as quality of OBEs/Phasing experiences dramatically increases the more I practice awareness (or as the buddhists call it: mindfullness).

The one interesting thing I noticed during waking hours, is the way you can actually see thoughts form and merge, before they actually appear. It's really interesting. It's almost like sitting in a boat, on a perfectly still lake, and looking straight down. Then you see a thought emerge, like some great abstract thing rising from the depths. And you consciously know something is coming, but it isn't till it's close to the surface that you can actually understand what it is. Then, you have the choice of letting it fully emerge, or simply fade away. It's almost like sitting and watching the subconscious work. I'm not nearly proficient enough to experience this too often, but I've experienced it enough to realize that when aware, I have total control over all thoughts and, thus all actions. And you then really get an amazingly acute view of how much of your actions are controlled by random/pre-set responses to your surroundings. Things that, given the chance, you really wouldn't say/do. It's depressing and scary.

Ah well...all is a learning curve!

In my map however, I believe humans are no more then matter.

I agree. Human beings are made of matter. However, I also beleive that we (you, me, and any other sentient being) operate through physical bodies to interact in the physical world. I believe that we are seperate from those bodies and thus, what happens to them only affects 'us' (our consciousness) to the point at which we allow it.

Just look at it logicly, can you say that a human being besides you is conscious?
Can you say that you are conscious?
Why?
Just because you think you are doesn't mean you are, you could've just been programmed to think so.

That is certainly a possibility. Not one that I agree with, but it is a possibility none the less. If you are correct, then all of our discussions here are essentially moot. Everything we do, say and think is irrelevant. In fact, thinking is really an illusion too then. If we were 'programmed' to think these types of things, then our thoughts are merely pre-programmed responses. They mean nothing. And if they mean nothing, than none of this can be real.

Do I understand your theory on this?

Besides that point, if someone was conscious of what he was doing all the time, the consciousness couldn't catch up. Consciousness can be just a simple program not a complicated multiple reality/universe thing.
That's why we have a subconscious, it thinks for us.
So if there is a thing like the subconscious, what's the point of the consciousness?
That is where I always get stuck, but I will figure it out sooner or later.

Ah, I disagree with this. The subconscious does not think for us. Science (if you agree that psychology is a science) has shown that the conscious part is where we do our active thinking. The subconscious is what controls/operates basic functions, eliminating the need for conscious thought. These are rote functions, and thus, only need a "simple program", to use your terminology. Maybe you meant to reverse these? I don't know.

I had to chuckle at the "consciousness couldn't catch up" comment. I'm not sure what you meant by it, but it sounded funny. I envisioned this brain running hard trying to catch up to a body.    

Remaining conscious of all your actions is no easy feat, however, it is possible. That, I believe, is a goal every individual should strive for. (again, my opinion only). The subconscious is the seat of emotions and history. From it is how we color our view of the world. The conscious part of the mind is the logical side. That is the part that can be an objective observer. If I understand your theory on this, I would have expected you to advocate the conscious over the subconscious -- logical over emotional.

Just out of curiosity, have you read any books on autocratic societies? This is essentially where it seems your beliefs/theory lie. If so, do you see them as true or real?

I see what you're saying. I misunderstood you. I view the concept of thought = action a bit differently, I think, than from what you mean. To me:

In F1, the only way thought = action is if you allow the physical body to act on the thought. Because of that, I don't view this as thought = action. (just my definition)

In F2 and F3, the physical fades away and the simple act of thinking alone creates the action. For example, in F3, if I think of a tree, one will appear before me. I don't 'do' anything to make the tree beyond the thought of the tree. This is how I view the concept of thought = action.

I've only been to what Frank called F4 a couple of times, but yes, what you describe can take place. That's what I was saying that you shed everything that isn't 'you' and can become things that aren't 'you'.

First off Sharpe, take a deep breath and calm down.

Apparently I was unclear in what I was saying, so let me try it again.

Look pal, I don't know what you're trying to say here, but you can look at reality in any way you want.
The point is not how YOU look at it, the point is how it is.

By "the point" I'm assuming you mean reality? If so, then I disagree with this statement. Reality, fact and truth are not the same things. What I was trying to explain was pretty much what Sarah put into concrete examples with Jim and Joe. Reality is what you perceive it to be. To take this further, if you put Jim and Joe, with their backgrounds as Sarah described them, into the exact same situation as an adult, they will react differently. Not because the situation is different, because their perception of it, based on their own history/experiences is different.

I'm not going to believe it just so I can have the feeling of security, that everything is under control, because it's not.

If you re-read my post you will notice several times I mentioned not believing what you read just because you read it somewhere. In fact in the last paragraph of my initial post, I said NOT to believe anything you read about this stuff until you can prove or disprove it for yourself. I have never and will never suggest someone "take my word" on something like this.


Lastly, Sarah is correct about this being a discussionforum. You mentioned elsewhere that you came here to discuss these things. Yet, when someone presents their own views, you stomp them down without considering them. That isn't discussion. Additionally, most of the topics on this forum are about things that can be neither proved nor disproved with science. Its all a matter of belief. And you are free to disagree as much as you want.

However, if you post here, people will respond. Now whether they respond politely or rudely is dependent, for the most part, on the tone of your post. So, going forward, I would suggest you think about what you type before you type it. If someone posts something that doesn't make sense, simply reply with "Sorry, but I don't understand what you are saying." Simple respect towards other members is one of the stipulations of the acceptable use policy here.

Haha, well I just want to know the truth, black and white is how I like to see things because it gives control.
But it immensely jeopardizes happiness.
Because in some way I think, we aren't supposed to know the truth.
And to know the truth we need to ignore any human feelings.

So you are basically a hard core analytical type...(not bashing, simply making an observation). In my experience, the world is not black and white. It is more like one giant gradient scale of grey. Truth and fact are not the same thing; truth is highly subjective.

Would you agree that we live in a world of duality/polarity? One thing cannot exist in this world without co-existing with its opposite. You can't have hot without having cold. North doesn't exist without south. Up and down are inseperable. The truth is that these opposites exist quite harmoniously in the world (assuming humans don't mess with them). The opposite of logic is emotion. Anyone who is emotional is never logical and vice-versa. I don't believe 'the truth' can be found in living by one to the exclusion of the other. I think 'the truth' is that both are needed in balance to truly live life.

Now, you can raise the issue, as you have also done, that happiness (and I'm assuming other emotions as well) are all an illusion. This is not a new concept. Indian's refer to it as maya. They consider this world an illusion. Pain and happiness are simply illusions. I agree with some of this concept, but not most of it.

But, in my opinion, the universe is build on logic, so you need to turn off your feelings to grasp the actual truth instead of the wrong ones, any feeling will bend the logic the wrong way, the way you want it to go subconsciously.
We believe what we want to believe instead of the truth imo.

I think belief and truth are closely linked. Something is true for you because you believe it. Wanting to believe something doesn't make it true. You don't believe in OBE's, therefore they aren't true for you. However, OBEs are very true to me because I've experienced them. Because of those experiences, I believe in these types of experiences. Although I don't believe every experience I've read, and there have been a number of them that contradict my own experiences. I only go with my own experiences because those are the only ones I can really judge. As a result, my beliefs are constantly adjusting as my experiences expand.

Now all of the people on this board could make post upon post of their own experiences and why they believe OBEs are real. But I doubt you would believe a single one of them. Why? Because you've never experienced anything like then, therefore you don't believe they're true. I know I didn't believe any of this stuff before I had my own experiences. And like Selski's suggested several times, if it is something you want proof of, you need to look no further than the person looking back at you in the mirror.

Regardless of the 'proof' anyone here provides, the only thing you should put your faith in is what you yourself experience. Otherwise, its too easy to let beliefs run rampant and take control of logic. This is one of the reasons why I think logic and emotion are partners in life. Without logic, life is chaotic and rampant. Without emotions, life is grey and hollow. However, if the two are happily married... 

Just a few thoughts!

Focus 4 ... too confusing to understand just yet for me. haha... but i think its the starting point for "Thought = action" which as we all know in the material world is known as the law of attraction.

Not quite. The concept of thought = action applies to Focus 3. Focus 4 is much more abstract than that. Try and imagine most of what you define as yourself simply melting away so that you exist only as you. And even then, you find yourself both less and more than 'you'. Thoroughly confusing, I know, and I can't think of another way to describe it at the moment. Sorry!

But your comment of thought=action is very much Focus 3.

Actually, you describe the feelings perfectly. Being unable to move your physical body while trying to sleep or after waking up is called sleep paralysis. Your descriptions of only being able to open your eyes part way, and the feeling that you are moving parts of your body, but then realizing that you don't seem to be physically moving -- all classic signs of partial seperation of the etheric body (also called OBE). Eventually, the etheric body will completely seperate and then you will be able to walk around, but it will feel different, almost like a light, bouncy walk. You will also be able to glide through walls and stuff.

Don't worry about vibrations. While they are common in OBEs, not everyone experiences them (I never have).

This topic has been moved to Welcome to OBE discussions!.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/index.php?topic=26714.0

Can anyone tell me the correct name/terminology for this place.
Some say it is a Way Station, some say it is a Reception Station, also can someone tell me for certain which plane/level this station is to be found.

No and no.

The name, like all names, is irrelevant. It's all about thought, intent and feeling. It doesn't matter what it's called. Like the saying 'a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet.' If you want to visit this place, make it your focus of attention/your intent to do so and you will be taken there. Words only serve to provide intent, but are not necessary. So don't get hung up on the 'correct name' because I don't beleive there is one. Call it whatever you want and that will serve the same purpose -- provide you a focus of attention to guide you there.

As to 'where' it is, I have no idea. I really don't put much effort into labeling/categorize experiences. I've had many experiences that I can partition into what I would call 3 distinct areas. However, I've never tried to make those classifications any finer -- just not something that interests me. But, again, the where doesn't matter. As long as you know where you want to visit (think only of the place itself) you will automatically be taken there, you don't need to know 'how' to get there.

Hope that helps!

This questions has been asked before. The most recent discussion is here:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_obe_discussions/is_this_an_accurate_chart_of_conciousness-t26596.0.html

I'm going to lock this post, since it is essentially the same as the thread linked above. Any additional questions/comments should be made to that thread. This keeps everything nice and neat!   

I have been to two 'healing places' in the astral. One was an off-white, almost with a grey-ish tint to it. It was for people who needed some rest before doing anything else. However, I don't know that it involved deceased people, because I saw a friend there who is currently living. My sense at the time was that it was to help deal with emotional issues the individual is currently struggling with, but I didn't sense anything 'serious' with the people I saw at the time.

Then two days ago I went to visit my grandmother who is alive, but 'on her deathbed' as the saying goes. I should clarify that my visitation was via astral, not physical means. Anyway, when I arrived, she was in a type of hospital setting, but I noticed that the men and woman there were all dressed in a deep shade of blue. ANd even the 'nurse's station' type thing was this shade of blue as well. I found it unusual because I don't remember ever seeing that shade of blue before. When I was in my grandmother's room there, I was too focused on her to notice if her room was also blue, so I can't say for certain that this was the place you were referencing. But I do know that she is dying of natural causes, nothing sudden or violent, like what it seems was suggested.

Not sure how I missed this thread earlier.   

I've been a vegetarian for about 5 years now. The conversion for me wasn't planned. Over the span of a few months, I noticed that meat started not appealing to me. Then it increased to me picking the meat out of the dish I was eating because the look and thought of eating began to make me nauseus. This progressed to me dropping all meat and meat products from my diet. The last part happened within 30 days. Interestingly, all this started soon after I began doing yoga and meditating. It was never anything I ever thought about or considered. It simply happened. My body doesn't want any meat.

I had also became mildly lactose intolerant after my first child was born -- don't know the connection there. I could eat dairy, just not a lot at one time (like a milk shake was a big NO-NO). But italian foods with moderate cheese or a bowl of cereal was fine. However, I read the China Study last fall and the statistics shown there really opened my eyes. I've now reduced my dairy intake to less than 10% of my diet. Basically the only dairy I consume now is some egg in the form of bread that I eat at restaurants, or a bit of feta or greek cheese crumbled on my salad. Otherwise, I drink soy milk and eat soy and/or rice 'ice cream'. I actually enjoy the taste of most of the stuff I've tried thus far. I've noticed since I stopped drinking regular milk, when I do take a sip now, I find it disgusting. It's too rich and creamy that I can't drink it. The same goes for regular ice cream.

As for weight on my diet, it never fluctuated. I'm a petite person and everyone who finds out I'm a vegetarian/quasi-vegan automatically assumes that's the reason for my weight. But I've weighed the same since I graduated high school -- so diet isn't the key, at least not for me.

Overall, I feel much healthier without meat in my diet. I feel lighter (physically, not spiritually). I find my body simply feels better. I know it was the right choice for me.

Yes, but not during the phasing process, if that's what you were describing. If you were describing a "knowing" after you've phased, then yes I have. I also will get this type of intuition/knowing sometimes when I meditate on an issue I'm focused on. However, I've never gotten tips on phasing. Interesting to hear if you try it and it works for you. Let us know!

the only "energy work" I do is my Tai Chi (classes twice a week). I've never done NEW. And I was experiencing OBEs before I ever started tai chi.

Short answer...no you don't need to do energy work to have OBEs.

I do find that if one projector believes certain things aren't possible, then it has a 'domino' effect (belief-wise).

Very well said. I know there are a couple of things I used to do naturally, without thinking about it. ANd then started reading stuff and considering other ideas, and now I can't do those things like before. I don't believe what I read, but its almost like the thoughts remain in my mind as blocks or obstacles that I need to intentionally work through. Not sure if that makes sense or not.

I've gotten through most of my blocks...mainly because I got ticked off at myself and 'forced' them to change. But this last one is more stubborn than I am...so far...but I'm not finished with it yet!   

however they stopped me in mid-air!    I had to climb onto them and continue from there.

Really?!  I've never heard of that before. Although I guess it isn't too surprising, if you believe that all of this universe is varying types of energy...hmm...may have to try and find some electrical lines next time to play with this. 

I think it is more in-depth than what Stillwater explained. Again, this is my own personal opinion, but my sense is that you review your life, but as it reviews, you relive it through the hearts and minds of others. In other words, you see and feel how every person you've interacted with feels at the time. Not only how they feel themselve from what you did/said in that situation, but how they see you.

I've had something similar happen in a few dreams I've had. Where I will be in a group of people talking, then suddenly I'm another person in the group responding. At the time, I know I was just the first person and I know how that person is thinking and feeling. But now I'm also thinking and feeling like this person. Then I'll jump to the next and so on. It sounds confusing, I know, but in the dream at the time, its all perfectly normal to me. Sometimes I simply save the 'jumping' part and instead I remain in 3rd person and I understand the thoughts and feelings of everyone at the same time as I watch the dream unfold.

Because of those experiences, my sense is that the concept of a life review is much more useful/important if you don't relive your life as you, rather you live it through the eyes of others you have either wronged or righted.

Hope that makes sense!

This topic has been moved to Welcome to Book Reviews!.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/index.php?topic=26623.0

As for tips and techniques to OBE and AP, I would suggest you read the various methods in the Astral FAQ and Permanent Astral Topics sections.

Regarding your experiences, its hard to say. You are describing classic OBE signs (falling through the bed, seperate body, etc). From your descriptions, all of your experiences have been in the etheric/RTZ area. It is possible to see deceased people while out, although I've never experienced this in the etheric/RTZ, only in the astral.

However, I have seen other people who were asleep and OBE at the time, but unaware. They tend to walk around in the etheric almost like zombies. Other 'people' I've seen while OBE have been dream characters. This could be what happened with you. It all depends upon your awareness at the time. The more aware you are, the less likely you are to experience scary things because you are in control of your thoughts. When your thoughts stray, then the experience becomes distorted and you get an overlay of dream images/experiences.

One thing to remember in all of this is that they are all influenced and driven by thoughts and feelings. It's possible to OBE and be barely aware. At this stage, you may suspect or vaguely know you are OBE, but your mind is hazy and the experience is cluttered with dream characters and situations.

I've never had any scary experience like this while OBE or AP, so I can't tell you anything else beyond what I personally have experienced. You may want to post your "cloaked guy" questions in the Psychic and Paranormal board. Users there may have other suggestions for you.

I've never gone through anything electric. But I've done doors and windows and water. Water is the coolest -- at least in my opinion. Jumping into water is almost like getting ice water dumped on you, but not the feeling of cold. Its the instant jolt of energy that it causes. Its almost like the feeling you get when you splash cold water on your face to wake up. But I find it heightens my awareness a bit when I jump into water. And the refreshing sensation goes through my body, not just on the surface like you feel in the physical.

I've never heard of this before. Where have you read this?

Some people view OBE/AP as a spiritual progression, and in that respect they believe that a vegetarian/vegan diet is best (no harm to animals-type-thing). But I've never heard of a vegetarian diet helping beyond the spiritual belief.

Welcome Mr. Dood (my parents taught me to respect my elders)   

Actually you aren't much older than me or several others, so I won't be calling you 'old'!

There is a lot of info on these forums. The Permanent Astral Topics and Astral FAQ sections are good places to start if you are looking for more input.

We look forward to reading more from you!