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Messages - Mobius

#51
Hehe Atlas, you becoming your alter ego Axis & fishing for a bite? You evil, evil man, hehe ( I hope you know I'm joking).

Robert couldn't exactly afford to write books & set up an OBE site on the dole or by setting up a religion & therfore not have to pay tax to let the world know about a subject that is usually refered to religion or science for explanations.

I think from what I gather, Adrian means he doesn't like people creating monopolies, or filling their pockets well beyond overspill. I & probably Adrian too don't mind people sharing with other people their talents, it's when they get consumed by greed & use people for their own purpose, at someone elses expense. The topic of money & information is a huge topic on it's own & we both know each others opinion of it. It starts to get fairly philosophical when we talk about what sort of system would best benefit all people on this planet, so as to motivate & reward  work or services done & how best to make sure everyone is on an equal footing, taking into account such things as inherited wealth & aristocracies.

So I'll leave it there, maybe Adrian WILL answer that question, but when you are forced to live the unequel world of capatilism(e.g 3rd world counties & women), you have to do what you can to survive & at the same time, fullfill your passions & desires/aspirations without taking from those who don't have it in the first place.

Astral dynamics still remains my favourite book on OBE's, the only thing I didn't like about it was, there was no referencing in the chapters. It would have been good to reinforce some of Roberts own views/experiences/techniques by having some sort of referencing after each chapter or amongst the text, so the reader can quickly find the relevant passages in the books in the bibliography. I have most of the books listed in the bibliography, just would have been good to see the page numbers. As they say,you can please some people sometimes, but you can't please all the people all the time.

Apart from that, he describes many existing techniques & phenomena in a very sensible plain english terms, which are a little hard to understand in some of the early writers.

Good journeys all

Mobius

#52
Hi Romero

Dropped by the website & looks good, I like the symbols & design of the site, well done. By the way, well done with Pearl, good work. Are you able to tell us any details about your experience with Pearl?, or is not good to talk about it?

All the best

Mobius

#53
Hi PW

I just checked the whitley streiber archives & the more recent shows have pushed the interview with Robert out of the archives now. It doesn't seem to have as much space for archives available as art bell. Well, I trust you at least found the show on art bell on july 30th, which is in the 2nd part of the show.

Good journeys

Mobius

#54
Just remembered a couple of other things I meant to say. IMHO I believe many scientists & doctors have thought to themselves what Frank mentioned in his last post, but never took it that step further like Frank did & said "ok, lets assume everything these OBE authors say is real". They don't realise that they can have BOTH as it looks like many in here do. Why not have the best of both worlds.

There is nothing to lose from having a go at OBE's in earnest & everything to gain if they DO achieve one.

Patty, I'm glad you say you don't write like the standard science journal method, it's just so lifeless to me & I for one would be interested in any thesis or hypothesis you might have regarding OBE's or genetics, definately, I don't care if it hasn't been published.

Btw I don't follow any religions. My interest in having people acknowledge OBE's comes from a purely experience based one. I would just love everybody to experience something that many in here believe is there.... the astral.

Ahhh, too many things to say, not enough time.

Good journeys all

Mobius

#55
G,day Patty

Thanks for the replies also. It has cleared a few things up for me & it is really hard for me also to put into words the whole picture I'm trying to convey. I guess what struck a raw nerve with me regarding that CNN article, was some of the choice of wording used by various journalists in putting together these articles. I know that journalists paraphrase particular reports & paraphrase each other so as to sound different/ original & not to plagiarise others work. I 'm just amazed though at the choice of language employed by these journalists in compiling their articles.

I find it interesting that the articles that came from the main media giants (well, the shareholders that OWN those media sources & have certain frameworks that journalists must work within, so as to conform with the owners wishes) sounded fairly dismissive of the spiritual/ OBE type experience, to me they did anyway.

I guess it was the choice of words like the heading :
"Misfiring brain behind bizarre sensation".........................to me, those choice of words set the reader up with a fairly negative view of OBE's or a dismissive one. Nothing in it is neutral & it attempts to appeal to the cringe side of spirituality & phenomena. "Misfiring", " brain", "behind", "bizarre" "sensation". Each word negative on it's own & together a masterpiece of negativity. As you said "you don't like to discuss OBE's with friends, family & colleagues". I have the same problem, although not in the family area as much.

One of the reasons I believe is our tendency to want to appeal to our peers as competent & not crazy etc etc. We all know the brain is the organ responsible for being crazy/ mistaken/ misdirected/ misinformed/ incompetent etc . So I feel this article is trying to appeal to that side of things with it's opening heading. As though it's somehow more comfortable for people to say "Misfiring brain" than it is to say astral projection or OBE's, as saying this would be treated the same way as when you & I go to mention OBE's & astral projection to friends, family & colleages.

We are so concerned as to what OTHERS think about our competancy & status of the mind, that the topics talked about on this site, tend to stay on these type of sites & occasionally make it into book form. When in fact EVERYONE wants to know what happens on the other side, after physical death & if OBE's are somehow related to this.

The article has a paragraph about 3/4 the way down that elaborates on the "misfiring brain" line of thought & goes on to say : "An OBE may be a slight disconnect or misfiring of the processing of information".

Once again appealing to the "oh gee, my brains misfiring, that's why I 'think' I'm having OBE's" side of things, so I'd better look to science & religion for the truth, as telling people OBE's are happening to you is ...............ah, uncomfortable to say the least.

Thanks for the input Patty, most appreciated, I just wish there were more people like yourself or anyone involved in science & medicine, to leave their beliefs at the office/ lab/wards when they finish their shift. It might be our employment for the time being, but our beliefs that are taught to us for employment purposes, don't need to come home with us. I just see so many friends & scientists etc that COULD open up a whole new world for themselves & us, if only they stopped to concede that there just might be some validity to OBE's & other phenomena that we talk about in here.

All the best patty, good journeys.

Mobius

#56
Hi Patty

Ahhh, ok, now I see where your coming from. It is true that many scientists believe that OBE's are a reality & some professionals such a lawyers, psychiatrists, doctors & scientists have written books concerning OBE's.

Everyone has their own beliefs & passions outside of their respective modes of employment, but rarely are these beliefs allowed to surface INSIDE the parameters of each of these professions, in fact the norm is to NOT to accept it & set about proving that point. How many colleagues, lecturers, doctors etc. have you mentioned OBE's to? & been taken seriously?

I guess saying "scientists" & "they" IS a generalisation & everyone is different. However anything regarded as spiritual such as OBE's remains mostly in the ten foot pole department as far as science goes, with very few scientists, doctors etc considering it a real possibility. Even if they DO, they are almost forced to conform to the ideology of their peers & predecessors. So they write papers with this in mind, so as not to step on any toes & to at least get someone to look at their study.

Science pretty much came about because people wanted another explanation for how things work besides the usual religous response of "It's Gods work" or "It's the work of the devil", which is great for determining the processes of something, but science seems to throw the baby out with the bathwater, going the long way around to finally find themselves back at the point where they should have been in the first place, trying to PROVE OBE's not DISPROVE them.

Why couldn't the scientists involved in this article try & corroborate the theory that that woman WAS out of her body, with experiments similar to what Charles T Tart & Dr Robert Morris did, when they said "ok, you believe you are having OBE's & leaving your body?, tell us what is in that room over there". Performing tests with ALL possibilities in mind, not just science based knowledge & assumptions. Even ask the patient if she saw anything that couldn't be seen from her bed, instead of following one set of assumptions, that somehow her epilepsy triggered it & so it must be some neurological anomaly, related to her epilepsy.

Here is an example of what I mean when I say that scientists/ doctors working AGAINST each other instead of with each other for the benefit of all.
After having a bad accident in which my spine was badly damaged, I thought to myself "I just want to find the best person for the job of fixing me". I went to Neurosurgeons & Orthopaedic surgeons trying to determine which method would be best for ME, as both could perform the operation I needed. When I told them I had asked another specialists opinion, they were fervent in their dismissal of the other proffesions abilities. ALL said, "Oh don't get a blah blah blah surgeon to do it, they wouldn't have a clue".

My point being, HOW can scientists/ doctors come around to acknowledging something completely outside of their field such as OBE's, when they don't even acknowledge the work & theories of others within the same disipline such as medicine or science of which they are part of?.......................money.

The ONLY article that was open minded  in it's language regarding the phenomena of OBE's was the article that density posted, the other articles had a fairly dismissive tone about them, that's how I perceived it anyway.

If science & doctors did something similar to what Frank said, stop & look within for a moment & try OBE's for themselves, maybe they would have a different perspective.

Clandestino, do we need to see everyones resume/CV/credentials to believe what they say? Or feel that more weight is added to those words simply by them stating their qualifications?I know I don't. If we were talking about genetics, then yes. I hope Jesus or Buddha doesn't reincarnate too soon, as the world we have created would mean that they are treated like the Dalai lama is at present by politicians & power mongers, with token jestures & lip service & not even that in many cases. Anyway, Patty cleared up that matter in regards to the position taken or viewpoint, all taken care of, thanks for that.

Good journeys all

Mobius

#57
Hi Patty

I'm a human being, PHd in life, currently serving my aprrenticeship in OBE's.

Do you believe what we do for a living has an effect on being able to acheive OBE's? Not sure what you meant by your opening statement, but sounds like you are either offended by something said or feel that telling people your qualifications will add more weight to your words? Could be my mistake though, on how I interpreted what you said.

Personally, I love science, so much so that I am currently studying genetics myself, what a coincidence, hehe. Although I'm only in my 2nd year & seriously considering changing tack, I have really enjoyed it. I don't see why science & OBE's are so far apart on this topic, when some elements in quantum mechanics/physics & astro physics are accepted ahead of any proof besides a hypothesis. Yet the possibilty of their suggestions are not ruled out as ONE possible explanation.

Btw looks like we have another science fan that has entered astal pulse, welcome eukaryote, another person searching for the human equivalent of the big bang eh? Another Btw, have you guys read any of calos casteneda books or the book "the cosmic serpent" by Jeremy Narby? Investigating why cultures believed the serpent or snake was such a prominent & re-occuring theme in their beliefs.

The shamans in a tribe of the amazon stated that there where many tiny serpents inside us, in fact, inside many organisms (looks like the kundalini/medical symbol, the serpent also revered by aboriginies,asians & south americans). That communicated with each other, which matches up pretty well with what we know as DNA & RNA, (something that looks like 2 serpents intertwined, ). Which also happens to look very similar to the milky way.

Neither OBE specialists OR scientists have all the answers, but if they worked together, or pooled ideas/theories together, the picture might become clearer for ALL.

Good journeys Patty

Mobius

#58
Hi Density

Well, that article sounds a little more positive & open minded than the reports we have seen come out of CNN, Washington Post & Reuters. Funny how the same study gets interpreted in so many different ways. Would have been good to see a paper or some info coming from a report directly off the scientists through a scientific journal or something.

I'm waiting for the other story to come out about wind vibrations causing a person to feel a "presence" or entity near. I saw it on Discovery, it was an episode where a scientist discovered a "spiritual presence" standing over his shoulder. To cut a long story short, he discovered that it was the fan from the ventilation shaft. He even went on to reproduce the effect, placing subjects in a sealed room & duplicated the oscilations of the fan & vibrations in the air to give the subject the feeling that some saintly or spiritual type presence was standing over their shoulder.

I would like to know if this electrode test has been duplicated on a person who has NOT got epilepsy or some other disorder, or did I miss that?

Good find density & good journeys

Mobius

#59
G,day PW

You can still get the interviews on :
http://www.unknowncountry.com/

Then click on dreamland, listen now & scroll down to the july 27 show.

The other one is on:
http://www.artbell.com/

Then click on audio files I think, then scroll down to July 30 I think, it's there anyway.

Good journeys

Mobius

#60
Hi all

Yes, a couple of questions about this institute for Michael & Goldmundo if you can answer here.

You guys were saying this site used to be called IIPC, so just to make sure I'm talking about the same one here as you guys, can you tell me if the information on my link is still relevant? And that it IS the same one as IAC world?

http://www.iipc.org/IndexEng.htm

Thanks & good journeys

Mobius

#61
Hi Michael & Goldmundo

Just a couple of questions I hope you guys can ask. I've been watching the IIPC website for a few years now, I like it, but as yet havn't got around to any of their courses as I'm preoccupied with a few others at present.

Q1) Do you guys know if IIPC is in anyway related to OBERF ? Not that I think it is good or bad if they are, it's just for my own personal reference.
http://www.oberf.org

Q2) Have any of you guys got the 1232 page projectiology book for sale through IIPC? I'm a bit of a book enthusiast & the book looks awesome. If you have the book, how did you get it? over the net? or get your bookstore to order it in? Or none of the above.

Q3) When you guys did your course through IIPC, was it an online one? or did you do a workshop? And what was the cost when you did it?

Good journeys all

Mobius

#62
Hi all

Been away from this topic for a couple of days & looks like there was some interesting talk that eventuated from it, all good.

G,day Atlas, hey you don't know how similar I think to you, if it wasn't for me experiencing all these things like OBE's & such from a kid, I would have the same opinion. I love science & wouldn't be without it & look with keen interest at all the amazing things they do. As you have seen others like Adrian, Fallen angel & James are also either trained in science or a big science fan.

But it's the slavish one eyed approach they use & when they totally rule out that other possibilities exist which peeves people because they know that the people who deal out the money through grants etc want the scientists to operate under certain guidlines & are not allowed to think outside a square. I suspect many scientists wish they could operate inside the parameters of their occupation but also acknowledge that there is an outside of the parameters of which they are working in.

Btw, last time I checked, Robert bruce or the monroe institute & family aren't the majority shareholders in CNN , Washinton Post & New York times & I doubt they are wealthy enough to fund a scientific research program or build massive research labs, nor would they want to. It's true that Robert & many have a book on OBE's but they are a minority amongst the mainstream media or ar spiritual institution such as religions have.

I can't comment too much on TMI, as I havn't actually been there & don't fully understand what happens there or know why they charge so much for the courses at TMI. It does seem expensive, but from all accounts I've seen, about 80% to 90% seem to be very happy with their experience there. That's a pretty good average. Also if Major general Albert Stubblebine the INSCOM commander sent military personnel to TMI, including the much respected Joe McMoneagle, I figure it's worth a look. After going there many military personnel purchased all sorts of hemi sync tapes & some have constant contact with TMI since.

The issue of the price of the cd's is another thing alltogether. As a musician who writes, records, makes & markets my cd's, I know the risk or overcharging for something. If it's too high nobody will buy it,also if there is similar artists that also have cd's out, I have to be competitive with their price. If I have something that actually works but has a relatively small competitive field like hemi-sync, I can set my price to something much higher but something that the public will still feel it's too good NOT to buy (frank said something similar to this not long ago).

The problem I see with Hemi-sync as far as price goes is similar to computer & console games. When you price them so high, it tempts people to exploit the cd's through piracy & sell them to others as an inferior copy, but none the less CHEAPER. I doubt TMI has the money or resources to employ the staff required to police the piracy of Cd's. So something has to happen, before everyone rushes out to buy a copy & are then disappointed that it doesn't have the same content as the originals distributed by TMI. Btw, I'm not a hemi-sync dealer or have a vested interest in them.

Good journeys guys

Mobius


#63
G,day Dream Speak

Sounds like a slightly different spin on the same information as the washington post article in here, which is not surprising since CNN & Washington Post are owned by the same people.

The misfiring brain cells or some sort of electrical stimulation creating the OBE reminds me of Hemi Sync in a way. Although the Hemi- sync experience DOESN'T come about through directly stimulating the brain through electrodes.

When the information comes from these sources, I start to question, what are they trying to make us think?.........................something more in line with their investments?

Good journeys DS

Mobiushttp://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_8ball.gif" border=0>

#64
Welcome to Astral Chat! / War with paint, Paintball
September 13, 2002, 23:22:12
G,day Fenris

Yes, do give me a message if & when you plan on doing it again, as you never know I might be up to it by then & I can rack up at least 10 to 15 people to go as well.

I know the Browns plains one you mean that shut down, it was off Johnson rd. It was our favourite because of the indoor game he had there, twas awesome. The guy who ran that one Dave, moved it down onto Beaudesert rd, Browns plains, which wasn't as good, but still fun.

Havn't played out Ipswich before, I might have to have a drive & take a look. Have you seen the place where the A graders play at the back of the war museum at Musswellbrook? Everyone has auto's, grenades, claymores, & they use bunkers,pillboxes, snipers nests, underground tunnels, old jeeps & stuff, very kewl.

Arrgggh! don't remind me of my exams, I did one last week which I only just scraped in & have two 2000 word essay's due next week, nooooooooooo!! Cmon November, pleeease!

Good journeys mate

Mobius

#65
Welcome to Astral Chat! / War with paint, Paintball
September 11, 2002, 17:14:18
It's been a while since I played the game 1998 & we used to re-gas the guns every time a game was finished from a huge Co2 bottle about 4 foot tall, which every one used. You say you carried your own small bottles? How did you re-gas them?

Fenris, my shoulder still has nightmares thinking about shooting .303's & .308's, in the end I had to have heaps of pads on my shoulder to help compensate the recoil.

Good journeys guys

Mobiushttp://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_blackeye.gif" border=0>http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_dead.gif" border=0>http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>

#66
Welcome to Astral Chat! / War with paint, Paintball
September 10, 2002, 21:53:29
G,day Fenris

Yes, gotta agree with ya there, to actually buy the guns & the gear to go with it is very expensive. I never actually owned any of the gear myself, I always hired it, as it was not my primary past time, music was/is, which continues to eat my wallet just nicely.

It was great to get out there & blast your mate who you thought was being a smart arse/butt lately,or the girls would get theirs on the guys or mowing down some rambo type. It was abit of a hard fast lesson actually, that people like Rambo would never exist in real life, as they would look like a sieve after 5 mins. People who were over confident beginners & thought raw courage was enough to win a fight, found out that standing in the open equalled lots of little ouches!

Fenris I gather being over the north side you would have played at Samford? I used to play mainly at Browns Plains, Calamvale & Inala, twas all in good fun,to be sure, to be sure.

Good journeys all

Mobius

#67
Welcome to Astral Chat! / 1 hour away from 9/11 (UK)
September 10, 2002, 18:07:52
Peace to all peace loving Americans on this day, the world is thinking about you.

Good journeys all & a peaceful one.

Mobius

#68
Hi Yoki

Welcome to Astral Pulse & welcome to the debate, although I'd prefer to think of it as a discussion.

I agree with what you have said there "the norm, doesn't mean it is so". It's strange that you have come here & onto this thread as well, after I read one of your posts on the PL site a few days ago, which was quite well done.

Anyways, good journey.

Mobius

#69
Welcome to Astral Chat! / War with paint, Paintball
September 10, 2002, 00:29:11
G,day guys

Yes, I must admit, I used to be right into what you guys call "paintball", here in Australia it's called "Skirmish" mainly, but it's also called "Paintball" sometimes. I used to shoot real rifles, .303's  .308's & .22's,but mainly at targets & was invited to go to a day of Skirmish about 12 years ago & didn't think it would be that exciting. But after 5 mins of playing the game I was an addict & played it at least once a month for a few years, pretty much up until 1998, where I had to give it up due to an accident.

The adrenalin rush far surpassed any real shooting I had done, as it was a game of hide & seek, ambush, tactics, etc with a fair bit of ouch factor, but no-one gets hurt, twas just great. It really brought home the idea of what it would be like to be in real war, with real bullets flying through the air. But it's all there for you to experience, the fear, the anxiousness, the feeling of being hunted down, the joys of victory's, the pride of being able to bluff your enemy when you really have nothing but words after ammo runs out.

I could not imagine what war would be like, or a real firefight & I don't want to after hearing the silence broken by 10 or so automatic paintball guns. It's earie to hear a post ahead of you manned with your team mates suddenly go silent after a hail of automatic fire & knowing their coming for you next.

When I first started there were only bolt action guns, then came the pump's & both could only hold about 10 rounds, which made reloading under fire all the more exciting. Soon came the automatic's & 100 round ammo chambers, awesome. I would book a day & get about 20 or so friends to come. Some female, but mostly male & the females could wear body armour that they supplied, like a motorcross chestplate. For about $70 Au, you would get a pump action gun, a camo body suit, a full fask mask (the only downer, as after 10 mins, you are so hot from running that the lens fogs up) & about 200 rounds.

We would have capture the flag games, seek & destroy games, forts, indoor ones, terminator game (where only 1 person has a gun & each person shot by the terminator, becomes one & joins the hunt), open field games (no cover).

The shots sting, especially ones on the lips as the first poster said, ouch! & the ears, but it's all worth it & I'm glad I didn't join the army, big ouch!

Good journeys

Mobius

#70
G,day BLM

I was on that very busy chat the other night/day as well, was a good one. Anyway, Mr Beam goes by the name Manfred in this forum & Oasis on his site & I'm not sure if he will get your post or not as he has studies now & doesn't get a chance to check this forum as much as he would like to. So if he doesn't get your message, you can PEM him on :
a.wenas@chello.nl

Twas a good chat, we will have to do it again soon.
Good journeys mate

Mobius

#71
Is the booklet a CD inlay booklet? Like the ones you get in a lot of music CD's that are part of the front cover? Negative. It is a separate 28 page booklet that has info on various things like *Cautions & Warnings* E.g If you have a tendency toward seizures, auditory disorders or adverse mental conditions, DO NOT USE. Do not use Dolby or other noise reduction systems with it.

This one is my favourite : DO NOT use Hemi Sync while driving or operating heavy equipment.................................Ohhhhhhhhhh, that's not fair.

It also suggests you use headphones & not ear buds, but I know lots of people that use them with no problem, I use headphones anyway. No tight clothing,shoes,glasses or contacts. Allow one hour after eating, alcohol,drugs & caffeine. And like RB suggests in his book, do it lying down or in a comfortable chair.

Personally, I find it hard to fall into total sleep while using hemi sync, whereas, my girlfriend only has to wear them for 5 mins & she is snoring. I also tried it on my sister who is into various metaphysical things & didn't tell her about TMI & hemi sync, I just gave her the headphones & asked her to tell me what she was experiencing. After 5 mins she took it off & said "I'd better stop, because I'm only here to visit for a few hours & this thing is making me fall into a trance, if I keep going I wont be able to talk to you".

Ok, gotta go, but one final thing, Frank, I saw you on that show "Englands worst drivers", so maybe you should stop using Hemi-sync while driving tanks, hehehttp://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0>

Good journeys

Mobius

#72
Hi guys

If you get your CD through a reputable dealer you should get a little manual with each Wave. If you didn't I would be writing back to them & asking for it. The booklet has an introduction to the hemi-sync process (nothing you couldn't find on TMI site ) a "what not to do section", each stage on each CD & a FAQ in the back of the booklet.

If you get them through a reputable dealer, they will give you some additional info & probably send you a catalog before you purchase anything. One of the things they ALL seem to mention is ; do each CD/tape slowly, soak it up, the binaural pulsing sounds, the brushing sounds, each technique, & really focus. I think Frank mentioned in another thread that he took quite a bit of time out on each CD & really got to KNOW what was going on at each step of the process. Not sure if Frank was told to do this as I was, or he just thought it was the most sensible thing to do, but it is important.It's like learning to type, just because you have discovered which keys to place your fingers on, doesn't mean you no longer need to look at them & can do 100 words per minute, take baby steps, enjoy without expectations.

Transcendence IS a good CD/tape, but isn't designed to do the same thing as the gateway series. The only one that comes near it is the "going home" series. ALL of their CD/ tapes you will find has that hemi sync binaural beats in it to some extent. On another one I have called "On becoming a life long learner", it has a grinding machine like hemi-sync sound, as opposed to the gateway that has a whistleing tone kind of sound. But the main thing to keep in mind is, take it slowwww. You will know when you are at the stage of moving onto the next CD/tape when you can recite a description to someone of what is being said & what you experienced during each one, whether it be speaking about it or writing about it.

Then you can experiment with it & do things like Bruce's NEW while doing Monroes resonant tuning, simultaneously. And, if the rolling log technique doesn't work for you on RAM's CD, use RB's rope technique instead, or elevator. Also, setting out a journal like RB does & recording "everything", any sensations, feelings, thoughts, visions, dreams, AP, OBE etc & moon phase if you wish.

Good luck on your journeys

Mobius

#73
Greetings all

Yes, please don't stop this discussion, it's very entertaining & I love it when I experience de ja vu. I liked the old topics "Search for Osama Bin liner" & "$1,000,000 reward for proof of OBE's", paid in metaphysical dollars by the unamazing Randi, hehe, but this ones going good too!.

Atlas you bad manhttp://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_blackeye.gif" border=0> , somehow you joined the triangle of evil & became "Axis", hehe.

Good journeys all

Mobius

#74
G,day Nclkwrk

Well done mate, you don't see many people in these forums taking that point of view, searching for answers & looking beyond the superficial.

People just refuse to look or listen to any other point of view besides what mainstream media wants them to see . While the smell of money is in the air, they want their share & don't want to know how their actions effect so many others. It seems to be labeled as unpatriotic or treasonous to say anything other than our global billionaires are walking living angels & saints.

So good on you for not being a sheep & having the guts to post those articles.

Good journeys mate

Mobius

#75
Welcome to Astral Chat! / Do You Believe in Guns?
August 29, 2002, 16:51:43
Hi Inguma

That "thou shalt not kill" commandment on it's own has been debated even more than our gun topic here & seems to be open to various translations.

I've got a book here at home by the Hare Krishna's who as you might know are vegetarians. There is a couple of chapters worth of debates just on the interpretations of what "Thou shalt not kill" actually means. The debates were between the head Hare Krishna & some spokesperson/ priests representing Christianity. As you can imagine the Hare Krishna interpretation was "thou shalt not kill any living thing", but they somehow didn't regard plants as "living" things. The priests said the way they saw it, it meant only humans as in biblical times they were omnivores & all ate meat.

The commandements were copied off a succesful doctrine by the Egyptians "the book of the dead", which preceded the bible by many a year. Since then it seems to have been interpreted as a token jesture, something you say you believe in & live by, so others will think that makes you "good". History shows that not many leaders of our churches or various faiths don't actually live by ANY of their commandments.

I wanted to talk more on this, but have to go to work now, until later.

Good journeys

Mobius