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101  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / More Contradictions in Religion... on: April 10, 2006, 13:08:09
gdo wrote:
'...within whom we live and move and have our being....'

In order to justify monotheism for Judaism and Christianity, you have just quoted the ancient Greek philosopher Epimenides (600bce), who was subsequently quoted by Paul in the book of Acts.

Epimenides' poem Cretica is quoted twice in the New Testament. In the poem, Minos addresses Zeus thus:

They fashioned a tomb for thee, O holy and high oneó
The Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies!
But thou art not dead: thou livest and abidest forever,
For in thee we live and move and have our being.

The "lie" of the Cretians is that Zeus was mortal; Epimenides considered Zeus immortal.

Paul quotes it in Acts 17:28:

26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28`For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, `We are his offspring.'

Epimenides is referring to Zeus, and Paul is referring to Christ.

This same idea is also found in the theology of the LOGOS, which I referenced above.  

Moreover, as a theological idea, this is more to 'pantheism' than 'monotheism'.  


102  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / More Contradictions in Religion... on: April 09, 2006, 05:05:13
gdo and leyla,

Let's look at what is being said here and clear up a few things, for there are three distinct things being discussed in a big wad:  Monotheism, Divine Powers and Gender-Godheads.

Monotheism means: GOD is ONE; mono-theos.  

In order for God to be a real God, a perfect and complete deity, an omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent deity, then God cannot ever be anything other than these things; God cannot change in any way; God must remain ONE in all ways.  This logical fact has caused serious problems for systematic theologies in all religions.

Technically speaking, Christianity is not a true monothesitic religion.

Even Judaism is not technically monotheistic given all the different names of God, e.g., El, Elah, Elohim, and Yahweh, with each name carrying a different meaning.

El is singular and masculine.  Elah is singular and feminine.  Elohim is either dual or plural. Yahweh is actually a verb, which makes deity able to create change, BUT, actually prevents that deity from being a true monotheistic--unchangeable godhead.

Either "El" or "Elah" would be a true monotheistic deity, but without being able to 'act within this world' would be of no consequence to this world. So, Yahweh had to be created so it could be present and create change within this world.

Recognizing the monotheistic problem in Judaism, Christianity could have been a true monotheistic religion by reconciling this problem of an unchanged deity that could still create change in the world, through the Greek understanding of the multivalent Logos, as found in the Gospel of John ... BUT...the subsequent theology of Roman Catholic Christianity was never able to have it's cake and eat it too.  

Instead of going with the Greek Logos idea, which allowed "everyone and everything" "to share in the essence of God," the early Catholic Church tried to make it work where Jesus was the 'only such person to be both human and divine' and therefore ended up creating the conundrum of needing a two-in-one deity. Their solution to this dualized-deity problem was to come up with the idea of 'two' in 'one substance'--the Greek word used for this 'substance' was 'homoousious', which means 'same substance'.

Moreover, it all just got crazier when considering the post-resurrection sending of the Holy Spirit, it too being a part of the godhead but separate from humanity, so they actually ended up creating the larger conundrum of needing three-in-one; making all three aspects be a part of that same 'one substance'. This they did by saying that there were three hypostases (three natures) of homoousious (one substance), i.e., the Trinity of the Godhead. This doesn't logically work in maintaining a true monotheistic concept, so the early Church thinkers finally just decided to call it a Trinity and leave the problem alone.  Believe or not, the conundrum remains unsolved even today.


While Judaism and Christianity never succeeded in being true monotheistic religions, they were very successful in being patriarchal religions.

Patriarchal Religion is just one of MANY FACES that "God has worn" through the eons.  

As a successful patriarchal religion FIRST, the above conundrum has been left alluding to different powers that have all been attributed to God, i.e., Father, Son and Holy spirit, in order for their concept of God to work.  In other words, a patriarchal religion that claims three aspects of a singular deity.

Goddess worship, which is a matriarchal religion, is another mask--and is not really a true polytheistic religion any more than Christianity is a true monotheistic religion.

Just like Christianity, it too has its powers that work through the foundation of that religion as well, e.g., different faces of the Goddess--Maiden, Mother and Crone, plus the different personalities of all the different goddesses, e.g., Isis, Astarte, Hecate, and all the others. But Goddess worship maintains that there is only ONE GODDESS.

So, whatever Christianity is with its multiple aspects of the godhead, then Goddess worship can be said to be the same thing--in the same way--only through opposing genders.  The former has a Male Godhead and the latter has a Female Godhead and each of these are the total ruler for the religion in their gendername.

The Greek pantheon, however, split between all their gods--both male and female--is truly polytheistic and is yet another mask of God.

Even Buddhism is mask of the Godhead in a genderless way.

Finally, all the powers found within all the different masks, may well be real when the masks are removed, but...the MASKS are NOT REAL.  

The many masks of God are all created by humans--for humans.  Simply put: whatever works for each one of us, for each one of us. But the logical facts remain that:

103  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / More Contradictions in Religion... on: April 08, 2006, 19:50:39

Did I say 1,800 centuries somewhere? Which is certainly a typo possibility!  cheesy

And if I did this in the context of the development of Christianity, then of course, I meant 1,800 years, not centuries.

But words count, and if I did do this, then thanks for correcting my obvious error.

104  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Welcome to the Funny Papers on: April 02, 2006, 05:52:57
This one is TOO FUNNY...

105  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Pagan Sex Orgies on: April 01, 2006, 18:25:21
p.s. For those that don't have a dictionary handy, 'to lactate' means to 'secrete milk' from the Latin 'lac' or 'lactis' meaning 'milk'.  The word 'lactation' is the formal term for 'women who are in the physical/hormonal state of making milk within their breasts'.  

106  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Pagan Sex Orgies on: April 01, 2006, 15:13:53

Van-Stolin is correct, for my references anyway. I was speaking of small, isolated tribes scattered throughout the globe, where the female was definately deified for her fertility and nourishing capabilities.   See what is called the "Venus of Willendorf" here, dated circa 24,000 bce:
Icons such as this one have been found scattered throughout archaeological ruins dating from at least this early date all the way through the period of the establishment of the Roman Catholic Church, where they certainly did their level best to destroy everything that even looked female in divinity.  Their attempts to do so, however, were met with such a backlash, that the divinity of Mary eventually became part of Catholic Doctrine.

Just curious: How are you defining 'paganism'?? And where do you get your date of 'paganism' beginning after 100,000 years of human population?  Are you speaking of a more organized polytheism perhaps? Also, what is your implication of that population as it regards the worship of the feminine and her role in tribal situations?

In the context that I was speaking...well I explained my context, but the same thing holds true even today.  If there was a serious natural disaster that wiped out the majority of the people and most all of the resources through which the remaining people could nourish themselves, then all fertile and lactating women would come in very handy for their survival.  SO...should you be one of these remaining people, BE VERY NICE to the women!!! wink Your very existence may well depend upon them!

107  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Elisabeth Kubler Ross & Robert Monroe on: April 01, 2006, 04:36:22
Hey All,

Thanks for this post.  I read some of Elisabeth's material quite a few years ago, and I think that I should read some more now.  Last May my mother passed away and I had some experiences, both previous to her death as well as after, that have made this 'believer' in the afterlife -- an 'experienced knower'.  

First I had a dream where she told me she was going 'to go' the week before she went, and then I actually helped my mother to cross-over a few nights after her death.  Two weeks later I was able to go and see her.

Even after almost a year now, I am still trying to process the experience in my was all quite profound.  (I am not quite ready to share all the details of these experiences on a open forum...but maybe one day.)

108  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Pagan Sex Orgies on: April 01, 2006, 04:16:08

I know how very frustrating it is to try and get closed minded people to think rationally, and not that I am defending these Christians....not AT ALL, but in order for you to better understand the 'why's' and 'how's' of their attitudes I will offer the following:

They cannot 'see' the need for sexual orgies, for two main reasons, the first of which is that they all believe that they were born into sin, and are sinners, period.  Second, there is one primary thing that they all have in common, and cannot resist as a usual thing, and that is the need to have 'sex'.  They do not consider this to be something that is just a natural part of their humanity, or even as 'a gift from God', it is something 'other'.

Since "Satan" makes them do things they do not want to do, especially those 'other' things they try to resist, 'sex', is oftentimes considered 'evil'.  In fact, the whole sexual act is considered taboo for the most part, UNLESS you are in a marriage sanctioned by the religion--that's where the whole idea that a marriage must be between one man and one woman came from. Then and ONLY THEN, is "sexual intercourse" okay in God's eyes. They can quote scripture to support this belief, e.g., according to St. Paul, "it is better to marry than to burn." Moreover, a lot of feelings of guilt come to those that even consider it outside of marriage, let alone to those that actually follow through on their 'urges'.  

So, as you can imagine, just the word "sex" is a 'trip-word' and lordy, well...the word "ORGIE" would throw many of them into spasms of evil suspicion.  

And yes, some of them are totally 'ignorant' of human history, and have an amazing ability to 'ignore' anything and everything that contridicts their religious beliefs, whether it be historical, scientific or even cultural. Extremists (in any religion) are very narrow-minded people.  

Narrow-minded people won't even try to understand...and you can trust me on this...I have a lot of 'first-hand experience'!!!  They won't budge.  In fact, they will fight you as if their very lives depend upon it...and in a sad sort of way...their lives DO depend upon it.  EVERYTHING that they believe is totally entangled with their religious beliefs, and without those beliefs, EVERYTHING would fall apart.  This is just not something that they can cognitively allow to happen. It would be too devastating to their psyches. So, they will fight you every step of the way.

Now, I must comment on that show that you saw: "the reason women all menstruate at the same time" has absolutely nothing to do with the timing of having babies, but rather, with the tides of the moon.  

Because most all women's bodies respond to the lunar cycle, many women would naturally have their babies around the same time, especially in ancient close-knit tribes that were on the same ritual schedule, e.g., solstices, equinoxes, beltane, etc.  The fact that other women would be available to feed an infant whose mother had died, would be a fortunate side-effect of the much larger reason for women's synchronized menses, but not the cause.

And yes, many breasts would indicate an especially fecund goddess that was also a primary tribal nurturer as well.

109  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Pagan Sex Orgies on: April 01, 2006, 00:32:12
I remember the epiphany that I had about the power of ancient female goddess worship, when I read that, in addition to the power to procreate, ancient goddess worship was also 'logical' because in the winter months, when the 'gatherings were thin', and in times of famine, women of a certain age would remain in a state of 'constant lactation' in order to feed the whole tribe.  Yes, in addition to children---adolescents and adults (both men and women) could all 'feed' off the breasts of these lactating women/priestesses.  That is also why all of the Goddess figurines that we have found were big, fat, fecund females!  They were fed well with temple fees/donations, so they could feed everyone else when the need arose!  

As far as Christianity is concerned, since "Woman"="Power" (to Procreate and Feed when times got tough,) patristic religions must come out against them (overtly or subvertly) in order to protect their "All-powerful Monotheistic Male God."

This is just one of the many issues that will have to be addressed if male dominated religions want to survive for much longer.  The 21st century world will not be able to hold these religions up for that much longer (relatively speaking of course) primarily because women (and rational men) across the globe are no longer kept in ignorance.

This is not to say, however, that we should necessarily return to female gods over male gods; I personally don't think we need to go back to the opposite extreme.  

When we stop trying to make our gods in human likenesses, then we might actually be able to better understand what the divine/astral realms are all about.  There is a power that permeates the universe, no doubt in my mind, but the chances of that power being "male or female" (as we understand the distinctions) is not even worth calculating.  
Well, that's my two cents worth...

110  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / FSM on: March 30, 2006, 02:43:58
Quote from: runlola
That was great but I am leaning more towards
the invisible pink unicorn:

I wonder if the rather well-known 'Pink Elephant' is one of the 'demi-gods' that serve her, or whether it is the primary 'demon' that sets out to thwart her/seduce her/propagate with her/and then battle with her into eternity???  

Sounds like one of those 'reality TV shows'....hey...a series of episodes might even be called, 'Goddesses and Cocktails'   :rotfl:
111  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / contradictions in religions on: March 29, 2006, 00:50:10
Hey All!

Since this thread is really large, I am going to lock it down.  

I have started a new thread to continue the discussion, titled "More Contradictions in Religion."  

If there is a post that you would like to comment on that is found in this thread, please copy and paste it in a new post on the new thread!!!

112  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / More Contradictions in Religion... on: March 28, 2006, 23:26:47


I would like to say that, truly, it is not my hand that has been clever with the bible, but rather, the writers themselves!  As my research shows, the bible is a complex web of seriously clever wordplays, puns and other language games!  These ancient writers were actually quite talented when it came to maximizing language(s) to the fullest extent.  From a literary standpoint is truly amazing!  

From a religious standpoint, however, it will not seem so clever!  But, one day, Christianity, Judaism and even Islam will have to acknowledge the way in which the bible was written and deal with all the implications...which, I should add, are ultimately unavoidable.



You really said a lot there!   wink   Some of your questions and comments have already been addressed in the "Contradictions In Religions" thread (which I locked down due to its size), so be sure to look there as well. I will, however, attempt to address some of your issues in this new, and continued thread as well!

Thanks for contributing some excellent points!

113  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Astral winds in my room? Wonderful experience last night!! on: March 28, 2006, 04:05:56

When I was in the beginning stages of projecting, I didn't even know what was happening to me.  I was a sophomore in college (at age 36) and when I began to hear loud buzzing/zapping noises in my head during my 'power naps' I thought I was just burning out my brain cells!!  After I began to just relax through these annoying sounds though, I began to hear a loud 'wind' sound that soon began to 'sweep through my body'.  Shortly thereafter, however, it was like the 'wind caught in some invisible wings that I was not aware that I had' and I shot right out the top of my head!  Whoosh!  I then found myself hovering outside my window.  That was my very first projection.

In subsequent early projections, I continued to hear zaps, buzzes, or loud bangs, immediately followed by the sound of a roaring wind previous to leaving my body, and interestingly enough, sometime in there I also flew in an commercial airplane.  As the plane was taxing down the runway, I was relaxing and readying myself for a nap, but when the engines fired up, and the plane began to lift off, I realized that this was very much like the sounds and sensations of an OBE.  

I don't know if anyone else can relate the sounds of a plane taking off, to the preliminary sensations of a projection, but I oftentimes think of the two as being similar.

Good luck, and stay with it.  Astral travel is truly amazing...your life will never be the same again!


p.s. I don't hear those sounds very much any more, nor do I feel the wind.  I don't know if it is because I am just accustomed to projecting after so many years, or if I am doing something entirely different now.  What I experience now is more of an 'instantaneous movement' from one place of awareness into another.  For whatever it is worth, I kinda miss the 'high drama' of those early experiences though!
114  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / More Contradictions in Religion... on: March 28, 2006, 03:32:50
Well....ah....Ubi, I am not sure how I feel about being a 'destroyer' of anything.  I would prefer to think of myself as participating in a 'new age of enlightenment', in a 'building up of knowledge'.  But...I guess I cannot control what people think of me, so I guess that may include for some people my being a 'destroyer'. :confused:

As far as my being a 'book of knowledge', well, I don't know about that!  Somedays I feel like I don't really know that much at all!

And as far as 'picking my brain', well, I give of my time freely here at the Pulse, so if I can help you better understand something, I will gladly try.  You need to know, however, that 'by picking my brain' that I will not do your homework for you. I will share what I can, and I can give you things to think about, but know this: if the homework is not actually done by you, then you will never be able to apprehend the efficacy of your own knowledge.

Just let me know how I can help.

115  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / More Contradictions in Religion... on: March 26, 2006, 19:03:33
Quote from: ubiquitous
...but i have a
   Could jesus write?Huh?

No, because Jesus, as he is portrayed in the NT, never existed. "He" was "an idea" a "concept" that is called "salvation."  Which is what the proper name actually means, in both Semitic and Greek: in Semitic, the proper name "Yeshua" is based upon the verb yeshu, which means "to save" and is the meaning of other Semitic names such as 'Joshua' 'Isaiah' and 'Hosea'.  Likewise, the name "Jesus" in Greek is, "Iesous" which is a proper name based upon the noun sos which means 'safe' which is derived from the verb sozein, which means 'to save'.  

All of the names of the biblical characters were created, not from the names of real people, but rather from the nouns and verbs found within the known Semitic and Greek vocabularies of the day.  The writers of the bible were creating fictional stories that told of things pertaining to the human condition and experience, including, how a relationship with a deity could be, if it had been the case, and the names of the characters were then chosen based upon what role they played in those stories.

Creating and using proper names in this way was a myth-making literary tool that was used by other writers of the ancient world as well, e.g., Hesiod, Homer, Plato, as well as the storytellers from Sumeria, Babylon, Persia, and Egypt.  

The biblical writers were writing their stories with the aid of this relatively well known story-telling device, as would be expected of storytellers during that period.  

116  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / More Contradictions in Religion... on: March 26, 2006, 16:28:26

You are obviously a believing Christian, so of course you are going to believe what you are taught, and even with your comprehensive education in Semitic languages and Hebrew culture, you learned about your religion through the "books" claimed by your religion.  You only know what you know, and have yet to learn all that you need to know. No one here blames you for that.

You are correct that there is a base Christian doctrine and that this is:
1)Belief in One God and Only One God;
2)That Jesus was the Only Begotten Son of God, who was present in God from the very beginning;
3)That he came into the flesh, suffered and then died for humanity's sins, past, present and future.

Yep, that's Christian doctine in a nutshell...but it should be added that to all who believe that these things are true, they are promised that they will never taste death, but rather, will receive eternal life in Christ.

Now, as to everything else you wrote, well...that is just justifying Christian doctrine, which can be done in a lot of ways (as it has been done for over 1,800 centuries) BUT...this cannot be done without a complete dependence upon the bible to do so.  This is called a circular argument: that if the bible says its so, you can go to the bible and show me where it says that it is so.  BUT, you cannot step outside of that circle (outside of the bible) and show me where it is even claimed, let alone true, from within any other source.

Regarding your 300 prophecies:  You, I, or anyone else, could take the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) and pick out all of the messianic prophecies and then write a story where 'someone' fulfilled them all.  Not a big task really, if you have studied the prophecies throughly, and you have the time and you are a good enough writer.

As to the 'odds' that you quote: "George Heron, a French mathematician, calculated that the odds of one man fulfilling only 40 of those prophecies are 1 in 10 to the power of 157. That is a 1 followed by 157 zeros."

This only proves the 'impossibility' of such a thing occurring--NOT the probablility.

Then you wrote: "I studied Hebrew culture/religion (pre- and post-Old Testament era) and early Christianity in college and in grad school (majored in Semetic languages and Theology) and I found no such things in my studies (which was extremely comprehensive)."

Congrats on all of your degrees, I know from personal experience what an achievement that is, and how hard you worked to earn them.  

But, concentrated as they were from the perspective of 'Hebrew Culture' alone, your studies were not conprehensive enough.  And depending upon where you received your education, your studies of early Christianity lacked the very backdrop within which Christianity was formed:  Who do you think the 'Gentiles' were if not primarily the Greeks and Romans?  

Judaism and Christianity arose in response to the paganism of the ancient world; the polytheistic paganism of Greek Culture, and the polytheistic Paganism of the Roman world.  During the first century, Greek culture was pervasive in all of the Mediterranean/Near Eastern World, most of which was in the process of being governed by Roman Law.  It was the Romans that made Christianity their official religion, through which they were able to control that part of the world.  As the church grew through the centuries, it absorbed all the pagan festivals and rituals that the common people had celebrated long before the advent of Christianity.  

You also wrote: "The beliefs of Judaism were rooted in a monotheism towards YHWH (the unspeakable name of God) and pre-date anything else we have on record."

Here you are wrong my friend.  You cannot provide evidence for your claim that YHWH worship pre-dates anything else we have on record.  You cannot even show me a Semitic Bible that predates the advent of Christianity.  

With the exception of a select group of books found with the Dead Sea Scrolls discovery, the first ''Bible of Record" is the Greek Septuagint (3rd-2nd centuries b.c.e.), and it was the only bible used by known Jewish scholars in and around the first century, c.e., and further, it was the Greek version of the bible that the New Testament writers used, as well as the version that most all of the earliest Church Fathers used.

In fact, there is absolutely no credible evidence that the 'Hebrew Bible' predated the Greek LXX, and the Letter of Aristes does not count.  The only thing that the Letter of Aristes provides evidence for is that Jewish propaganda was necessary to make the claim that the Hebrew Scripture pre-dated the Greek Septuagint.  The bottom line is, we can produce plenty of evidence that the Greek Bible existed during that time, but not the Hebrew Bible.

As best as we can tell, there were a scattering of Semitic books during that period, but until Jerome penned the Latin Vulgate, the Greek LXX was the primary source.  Even the Masorites, Jimi, used the Greek LXX, the Latin Vulgate and other various translations to create what we now know as the Hebrew Bible, and which--I might add--they did not create until 700 years after the advent of Christianity. If you have truly performed a comprehensive study of the Hebrew religion/Judaism/Christianity, you would already know these things.

Yet you profess that the religion of YHWY "pre-date anything else we have on record"Huh??

That is just not the case Jimi, because in addition to what I just explained, within your very own tradition it was not until the second exile that the scriptures were claimed to even be put to paper (circa 500-300 b.c.e.), and there was a great deal of 'written/known history' previous to 500 bce.  But you cannot even produce the writings of Ezra, and unless you can produce such writings, the most rational premise is to assume that they never existed.  

Since you say you are a student of religion Jimi, get out your library card and go to your university library and check out books that concern other aspects of the ancient world.  You will eventually find it interesting that while the Bible mentions the Greeks, the Persians, the Babylonians, the Sumerians, etc., that neither the Greeks, nor the Persians, nor the Babylonians, nor the Sumerians, EVER mention the Hebrews.  Considering the claimed size of ancient Israel, and the sheer scope of its claimed power, you would think that SOMEBODY in the ancient would have mentioned them.

They do not, because they never existed.  The Bible is a Storybook--not History.

I've got to go now, but do more homework Jimi, a lot more homework, and you will: first, no doubt be confused, then no doubt troubled, but then you will, no doubt, become amazed. will no longer be one of the group of which it is said, "Professing to be wise they showed themselves to be fools..."


p.s. Be careful of 'Appealing to your own authority' via all of the degrees you have earned.  People here on the Pulse are smarter than fact, there are some posters here that are very well educated---with degrees of their own---and I might add...many of those without degrees, are quite intelligent and very well read.   A 'degree' does not equal 'smarter' or 'more knowledgeable'.  In fact, you can actually learn a lot from some of us; things that can be verified through credible mainstream scholarship, without any dependence upon 'message boards'.  We give of our time and effort freely, so people who have not had the privileges that we have enjoyed, can also share in our combined knowledge base.
117  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / 5 things astral explorers agree on... on: March 25, 2006, 03:49:09
Very interesting runlola!

I agree with all 5 that they agree on.

I disagree with Muldoon on the astral cable or cord, and understand perhaps why Larsen makes no mention of any such cord:  I have never perceived that I have such a cord, and never even think about it unless I read something like Muldoon's claim.

I agree with Larsen about spirit-populated cities, but I don't think (like Muldoon claims) that they are all here on the earth plane.

Where Muldoon says that he has "never had a conscious projection when [he] was not upon earth - as much so as [he is] in the flesh, yet intangible to all earthly things"--my experiences have been very different.  While I have certainly had 'conscious projections' I have never had that many 'intentional projections'; most all of mine have been spontaneous, and as far as I know, only a few of the earliest have been 'here on earth'.    

Like Larsen, I have had spirit guides, but only in the very beginning and only for the first few years.  I remember the first time I actually asked a question of a guide---I asked her/him:  "How is it that I can do this?"  To which he/she replied: "It's simple.  Sugar and water."  Ha!  What a jokester, I thought, post awakening; but then I ran across some research stating that the amount of glucose in our blood has a direct effect on certain hormones released by our brains--for our brain's activity.  I have always thought that somehow a release of certain hormones are involved, not only in our ability to project per se, but in our ability to consciously remember them.  Was this my guide's simple explanation for a more complex physiological process :question:

Finally, if Muldoon has never left the earth plane, then why would he need a 'guide'...especially since he is a man...for he may be one of those men, that even if he got lost, he wouldn't stoop so low as to ask for directions!! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

There's my two-cents worth...for whatever it is worth!! grin

118  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / How Cool Is This? on: March 24, 2006, 22:25:35
Thanks Nick, I will check it out!!  ~Beth
119  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / The pictures of Muhammd on: March 24, 2006, 13:01:27
Quote from: Xernous
My main point is that some people take things too seriously, sometimes with catastrophic results. If the media would have let it go, this whole mess probably wouldn't have happened. But I guess controversy drives ratings and keeps the advertisers happy....


Because we live in a 'relative universe' where everything is relative to something else, kamals point drives this fact home showing how we also live in a 'reactive universe' where 'point A' and 'point B' are meeting in a dangerous clash of wills.  

The media today is the forum through which these 'meetings' are made public.  

While I am not a fan of the media today, we cannot lay blame for the debacle in lap of the media.  While the media is certainly able to 'feed certain fires', the fires would burn one way or another--but we would probably never hear anything about it.  And that would not make us any happier either; it was only a few centuries ago that the 'world press' (such as it was) was constantly censored by the ruling parties of each country.  That is why our constitution includes 'freedom of the press'.  We get a lot of benefit from this freedom--knowledge being the primary one--but like life in general, we have to take the good with the bad, so we might not always like what we hear/read.

Even though the pictures in this case originated in a newspaper, they could have just as easily been found in a privately published book, or posted on a university campus, or found on a coffee shop bulletin board. The fight was waiting to happen, and this is the way that it manifested itself.

Also, to unaffected observers it appears that some people take things 'too seriously', and while each of the things that we read and hear about are no doubt affecting us globally, each one of them start out as very personal--in one way or another.

120  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / contradictions in religions on: March 24, 2006, 12:26:27
[This post originated in another thread but is more appropriate here I think!]

Quote from: kamals
"Sufism is experience of life through a method of dealing with life and human relations. This method is based on an understanding of man, which places at one's disposal the means to organize one's relationships and one's learning systems. So instead of saying that Sufism is a body of thought in which you believe certain things and don't believe other things, we say that the Sufi experience has to be provoked in a person. Once provoked, it becomes his own property, rather as a person masters an art." -Seyed Idries Shah, interviewed in Psychology Today, 1975.

From my studies of the earliest Christians (the very earliest Christians!) this was very much the same idea.  They were well educated in all of the philosophies that were available to them, e.g., Greek, Persian, Egyptian, etc., and also included certain eastern philosophies as well, e.g., Indian. This life path was called being a 'Son of Man'.

From what I have gathered, their overall endeavor can be rendered something like this:  learn all that can about everything that you can, and then make up your own mind as to what you think is correct.  With this broad based pedagogical discipline came prayer/meditation to 'God', a practice of good sound ethics--which included harming no one--and through this intellectual, physical, emotional and spiritual discovery, one could be blessed with a 'spiritual chrism', i.e., become a Christian.  This 'chrism' was not something brought about by the 'hand of man', but rather 'by the will/grace of God'.  An accomplishment of experiencing this 'chrism' became known as going from a 'Son of Man' to a 'Son of God'.  

This 'chrism' was definately 'spiritual'--and definately a process--which included experiences of heightened awareness, lucid dreams, OBE and the big-kuhuna...experiencing the 'blinding light' of divinity.  This was known as the 'second chrism', i.e., a baptism by fire/light.  (In some writings, the 'first baptism' was through 'water' as in coming 'through the womb'; so all of humanity had automatically received the 'first chrism'.)

 grin Yeppers!  These enlightened folks could actually become 'a Christ', aka, 'an anointed one' and 'their own messiah'. Many of these people became known as 'Gnostics'.

When the 'symbol' of the 'first chrism' was artificially created through 'baptism in/with water' such as the Jordan River, etc., the knowledge of experiencing the 'second chrism' or the 'metaphysical chrism' was eventually lost, and eventually too, 'Gnosticism' was branded as heretical ... and well ... the rest of the story is the sad history of 'Christianity'.  

I think that the reason there was such a dichotomy between the two, is that the 'thinker/feelers' of the period were somewhat secluded from the world at large, spending most of their time studying, and only getting together with other to discuss certain philosophical ideas.  This was actually the 'early church'!!  Get together for a meal, have a glass or two of wine, and 'philosophise'!!  I assume that these 'get-togethers' became more organized, and more people were invited to attend, and well, one thing led to another, and before you know it, the original point was lost.
121  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / How Cool Is This? on: March 24, 2006, 02:19:55
At some point while watching it...I had a very brief visualization of the 'juggler' as "God" -- with stereo cranked up -- and the 'balls' were 'humans'.... :juggle:  

:rotfl: :rotfl:
122  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / How Cool Is This? on: March 24, 2006, 00:12:37
Watch's awesome!

(Make sure you have both video and audio...)

123  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Islamic Knowledge versus Western ideas on: March 23, 2006, 23:52:23
Another great post kamals!  

I like the way your minds works--and--as an added bonus, you have the talent to say a lot, say it well, and do so in a nice, neat little package!

On this last pithy point:
Quote from: kamals
It's the eternal return. We stand before eternity seeing the symbols and NOT SEEING THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE. We see the signs but don't see them. Every passing moment is eternal and passing at the same time.

...I would like to add that sometimes I have very lucid moments where my cloths change, my immediate environment changes, even my native language changes, but...alas...the machinations of humanity are always the same. :confused:

124  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / The pictures of Muhammd on: March 23, 2006, 23:37:11
Great post kamals!!

I don't watch TV either; haven't for quite a few years now.  I do own a TV, but I so rarely ever watch it that I totally forget that I have one!  I do, however, enjoy the occasional movie, and since I don't particularly care for 'going to the movies' that much, I can always watch them on my laptop if there is one that catches my interest!  

Thanks for fleshing out the so easily misunderstood conundrum of 'we' and 'they' as 'good' and 'evil'.  We definately live in a relative universe (or perceive it as such anyway!) where everything is always relative to something else!


p.s. 'Pretty is as pretty does'... wink

[Part of this post was moved to "Contradictions in Religion"]
125  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Al Mohler Fox News Appearance on: March 23, 2006, 04:18:52
Quote from: Xernous
... If only people like Mohler would learn to have an open mind...

Ironically enough, in biblical Semitic, 'Baptist' actually translates to mean 'by having an open mind'!!!

Additionally, 'John' means 'Ionian/Greek' so... 'John the Baptist' actually meant: "an open-minded Greek"!!!  

Yes, I am aware how much the Southern Baptists would seriously protest that fact!!  

Oh much for original meaing... rolleyes

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