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76  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Trucks on: April 28, 2006, 03:00:32
I have had several dreams over the last few months that involve "Trucks."

This is quite strange for me because I don't have a particular attachment to trucks... :confused:

Anyway, the first dream was a semi-truck (an 18-wheeler) that went speeding past me on the freeway and it slammed into an overpass, going right through it as it wrecked. It left a pretty good sized hole in the side of the bridge. I stopped in a far right hand lane, got out of my car and walked through the hole to see if I could help. When I got there though, emergency vehicles were already on the scene. The wreckage was a mess and ended up involving quite a few vehicles on the other side, but there was nothing that I could really do to help...

In the second dream, a fuel tanker came across the freeway in front of me and just turned right over on its side. I knew that the fuel was flammable and thought to turn around and go the other way, but was compelled to stay put and help if I could.

I know that "vehicles" can represent the "self" but in both of these dreams I am in my own vehicle and also behind the wheel driving at the time.

Nothing has recently occurred in my life that would explain these dreams (I don't think anyway.)

Any suggestions on an interp?

77  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Seeing deceased pets in the astral plane on: April 28, 2006, 02:17:50
I have had several experiences with animals in the astral.

Last year on April 1, we had to put my mother's little dog--named Lollie--to sleep. She was 12+ years old. Lollie and my mother were extremely close companions.

Six weeks later, on May 15, my mother passed away as well.

Two weeks after that, I was allowed to go and see my mother again, but the first familiar entity I encountered was Lollie! She jumped up on the back of my legs and when I turned around she practically jumped into my arms! She was very healthy and spry! Because they were so close, I was very excited to see that she was still alive and with my mother.

I also had a cocker spaniel quite a few years ago that I had to let live somewhere else due to housing conflicts. I really missed him a lot. I used to see him from time to time in the astral. This was especially the case when I was feeling sad or was sick. He would always bring me some much needed "dog-love" when I needed it the most. The last time I saw him, he too was especially "spry" and I knew that he had died to this world and was permanently in astral. He was very happy and it was a very good meeting. I determined from this that all the other times we had met, he was still alive here, and we were both having an OBE.

I have had one other experience that I can share. This one occurred last fall. My former roommate had a cat that oftentimes would follow me around wherever I went. She would always try to stay in front of me and walk at her own pace (as cats usually do!) and I was always getting after her to move out of the way!! One night I got up in the middle of the night to use the facilities and there she was trying to "lead the way." As I was taking care of business I looked down at her and she was acting a little "tranced" (for a lack of a better description.) I thought it odd, but I was very sleepy and knew that she would follow me back to bed if she wanted to. As usual, when I was walking back to the bedroom, there she was, trying to lead the way. When I got back to bed, however, SHE WAS ALREADY THERE, SOUND ASLEEP! There was no other explanation for this, except that she was having an OBE, and my own half-in-half-out consciousness was able to see her astral body!

I have no doubt that our pets (or animals in general) are definately entities that continue to exist past their time in this world.

78  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Seeing deceased pets in the astral plane on: April 28, 2006, 01:48:39

warning given to you in the Religion Section Extends to ALL sections of the Astral Pulse.

If you cannot make a positive contribution, you will be

79  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / The God Who Wasn't There on: April 27, 2006, 22:49:55
Quote from: Doch
I suppose one question I could ask, and this ties in with the afterlife thread - do you feel one and the same person within your astral travels, comparative to physical waking life?

Oh Doch!

What an EXCELLENT question!!!!  :thumbsup:

In the astral I feel complete.

When I return to my "here" consciousnes, I ALWAYS feel like I have left behind a very important part of myself.

Here, I am fragmented. There, I am whole.
Here, I must try to figure things out. There, I already know.

Having knowledge of the astral (and of my whole self) can actually bring on the "melancholies" sometimes.

Even though I feel "homesick" quite profoundly at times like this, I know that this body I am currently inhabiting will not last forever and that one day I will be completely me again! Because of this, I don't even mind getting older!! wink


p.s. How about other members? How would you answer Doch's question?
80  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / More Contradictions in Religion... on: April 27, 2006, 03:36:01
gdo wrote:
OK. It is not really to complicated.
Imagine for a moment that EVERYTHING that can exist and has ever existed is the physical manifest ion of the creator. There is no possibility of anything being outside of god or the creator at all... All things on earth and all that are on earth are encompassed by 'god'.

You mean "pantheism" then???

Various Definitions of Pantheism:

1) An understanding which identifies God and the world as one, either without qualification, or with the world as a divine emanation, body, development, appearance, or modality.
2) Belief that God equates to the universe, and vice versa.
3) The doctrine that God is in all things.
4) The belief that God and the Universe are identical.
5) The philosophical form of monism that identifies mind and matter, finite and infinite, as manifestations of One Universal or Absolute Being, the doctrine which holds that the self-existent universe, conceived as a whole, is God.

and so on, and so on...

On one level of understanding, this is equivalent to the Greek idea of the Cosmic Logos which I mentioned earlier. That is why I said that sometimes I think we agree, and then you say something that contradicts your previously stated position...:confused:


p.s. The "Shema" recitation tells us very little about "God." The Shema is more about "Humanity." The Shema is about Judaism's belief in the "relationship between them and God."  And "hashema" or "THE NAME" tells us even less...
81  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / What do people think of this...? on: April 27, 2006, 03:10:19

I am a "lifer" in the field of religion, and I can tell you that it will probably require UFO's entering the earth's atmosphere, much like that old movie "Independence Day" to make people that are serious about their religion even begin to question their faith. And then they will probably say that it is Satan's Army, a.k.a., the Anti-Christ. Shaking their faith will be extremely difficult...

Religion is all about: FAITH. Not science. Not PROOF. FAITH.

Unfortunately, they are not the least bit "moved" by bones--no matter how old they are, or how many different evolutionary cycles they have been through. A great many Christians, for example, are only moved by the thought of a first century "bloody cross."  :dont-know:  


p.s. Now if you can "find the bones" of any of the disciples, or any other biblical characters, well then...they would get REAL EXCITED!!!
82  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Life beyond physical Death on: April 27, 2006, 02:55:38
Quote from: Doch
As a student of Anthropology and Sociology, I have to say that any kind of fundamental belief in an afterlife is pretty much inconceivable to me right at this moment. An afterlife has to constitute a beginning of life, doesn't it? In this sense it's just as ( perhaps even more ) important for me to attempt to discern where we came from, rather than where we are headed....


Why do you think they are mutually exclusive?
What if they are the same?
What if in your search for the "from" you also find the "to"Huh Or--
What if it is actually easier the other way around?
Why not be open to the "to" and see what you find?

As a student of Anthropology and Sociology, I am surprised that you aren't more open to such a thing: all cultures that I am aware of have some sort of spiritual heirarchy, system or some kind of 'other-worldly' belief.  Various Shamanistic traditions from around the world are all about astral travel, spirit contact and the power of dead ancestors to affect this world for many years following their death.

Why would so many cultures, for so many millenia, from virtually every spot on this planet, believe in such a thing, if the possibility of life after death was not worthy of serious consideration?

Scientific observation and objective data collection are all very necessary, but when "people" who are studying "people" become too "objective" they totally lose the "subjective" connection with their topic of study. Which is, in essence, their "self."


p.s. Have you studied Arnold van Genepp and Victor Turner yet? The theory of liminality is totally fascinating and can be applied to both our experiences here on earth as well being useful in comprehending our experiences in the astral... wink
83  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Summoning spirits: deceit of the devils on: April 26, 2006, 01:50:10
Quote from: Jibreel
Please dont ban me. I am simply giving people my sincere advice regarding such issues(which is based upon the teachings of Islam)

I don't doubt your religious sincerity Jibreel.

But don't you see that people here are not asking you for advice?  We do not want to convert to Islam. We know where we can go to get the kind of advice you are offering--should we decide we want it.

This is not the Ask Jibreel Forum, or the What Is Islam All About Forum. This is the Astral Pulse.

You must accept the fact that this is not a general religion forum. It has a definate purpose.

That is, we encourage people to explore the astral realms. We do not try to dissuade them.  

You are trying to dissuade. That is not what this forum is all about.

84  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Summoning spirits: deceit of the devils on: April 26, 2006, 01:04:23

You wrote:
IF people think it is ridiculous it is up to them to decide, but it is my right to share the information.

Not necessarily. Certain governments may provide the right of free speech, but ultimately, the administrator and moderators of this forum collectively decide whether or not your posts are permissable.

I will repeat: We will not allow you to make random posts on Islamic philosophy just because you want to.

If you want to introduce a book on a thread, then just post the link to it. Do not fill up an entire thread with a lengthy excerpt.

I do not know how to make this position any clearer and I will not argue with you further over this issue.

This is now your SECOND warning, and I might add, within less than an hour of your first warning.  

You are obviously trying to provoke discord and in doing so, you will be banned.

If you cannot make posts pertinent to a positive experience of the astral, or ask us a question to help you deal with your own experiences, or even post a helpful reply to a discussion already underway, then refrain from posting at all.

85  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Summoning spirits: deceit of the devils on: April 26, 2006, 00:30:29
I apologize jalef!

I see where I looked at the wrong name.

86  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Summoning spirits: deceit of the devils on: April 25, 2006, 23:52:50

I have no idea what your purpose is in making such a post.  Why are you telling us this? If it is to warn people to be wary of charlatans who make claims of being able to do certain extraordinary things when they may well be frauds and only after your money, well...that would be okay. But you need not have filled up this thread with everything else that the author says.

For instance, in reading this extemely lengthy post, I totally lost sight of the whole problem of charlatans because the author goes into a diatribe on non-pertinent Islamic beliefs. Where you post:
Then it became clear to me that hits was undoubtedly a lie, because the shaykh in question was one of the greatest Shaafa'i fuqahaa', one of the great Shaa'fai(Islamic school of thought) scholars who say that the entire woman is 'awrah, even if she is an ugly old woman.

If he had really been that shaykh, and he had come to know of some new evidence whilst he was in the realm of Al-Barzakh, he would have told me about it and explained the evidence.

But this was a lie and deceit, aimed at misguidance. But Allah Whom be praise - insisted on guiding me and making me cling steadfastly to the truth and right guidance.

For a woman to uncover her face - especially in these corrupt times and in this sick society - is something which no rational or religiously-committed person would endorse."

You come across as trying to make a case for women being 'awrah, and that is something that is way outside of the realm of what this forum is all about. Besides, I am a woman, as are many on this forum, and I find that position quite offensive.

As a woman, I politely request that you keep such opinions to yourself, or post them on an forum that agrees with such nonsense.

As a Moderator of THIS forum, you are being officially warned not to do this kind of thing again. We do not offend our members.

When you then say:
These claims of being able to summon the spirits of the dead are being used by the devils among mankind and the jinn as a means to corrupt the religion. These spirits which are summoned, which are in fact devilss, speka words which undermine and destroy Islam and confirm the new principles and values which are diametrically opposed to the truth.
You are clearly proselitizing and trying to sway people away from anything that does not conform to Islamic belief. That is NOT what this forum is all about.

This section of the Astal Pulse is provided by the administrator as a sub-forum for people who are interested in the astral or who have experienced the astral, and are wanting to work through their new experiences either hand-in-hand with their religion, or learn to live without the religion of their roots.

This sub-forum is not about providing a NEW religion to any of its members.

If someone feels the call of Allah, then they can Google Islam and find plenty of Islamic forums to go to.  This forum would not be one of those offered by any search engine.

So, feel free to express your concerns--as they pertain to your desire to know more about, and to experience the astral realms--but we cannot allow you to randomly post Islamic philosophy just because you want to.

87  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / The God Who Wasn't There on: April 25, 2006, 22:56:07

You are very welcome! These things are NOT EASY to talk about; the limits of our language seriously impede our ability to do so. I am pretty practiced at talking about such things, especially as regards religion, but many times I have to struggle to put into words my astral knowledge and experience. And I sometimes feel that I fail miserably in my attempts!

For example, when I said that "we as astral travelers" I did not mean to disregard those who have yet to travel the astral, as much as those who lend no credence to the existence of the astral.

Recognition that this physical world is only a small portion of our total reality, and that "heaven and an afterlife" do not come close to accounting for the totality, a major step has been taken in opening the mind to the existence of the astral.

I think that many people are unable to acknowledge the astral, not because they never experience the astral, but because they refuse to allow the astral to exist. As a result, they do not recall their experiences. When this recognition really kicks in, then active and aware participation begins to occur and many amazing things become possible!

88  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Personality Type vs. Consciousness on: April 25, 2006, 03:39:34
I kinda missed the hot topic boat on this one, but here are my results anyway!!

I am another INTJ -- one interpreter said:
They are rather rare, comprising no more than, say, one percent of the population…
hmmm...I did a quick count of 5... 6, including me, just on this forum; WHAT DOES IT MEAN?....:think:

My Qualitative Analysis is:
•   moderately expressed introvert 44%
•   distinctively expressed intuitive personality 75%
•   slightly expressed thinking personality 12%
•   slightly expressed judging personality 1%

hmmm....not a golden mean to be seen with me. But what do they mean...slighting thinking?Huh Hell, that's all I seem to do these days is THINK!   shocked Hmpf!

Well, I guess I still need to work on myself!  :confused:
And I was so sure that I was damn near close to being a perfectly balanced entity!  :locolaugh:  

Some more highlights into who I am:

… there is one attitude that sets them apart from other Rationals: they tend to be much more self-confident than the rest, having, for obscure reasons, developed a very strong will.
(ya think??? wink )  Apparently this makes me a "Mastermind" (bwahahaha... :heh:  because it further states:
To the Mastermind, organizational structure and operational procedures are never arbitrary, never set in concrete, but are quite malleable and can be changed, improved, streamlined
Get behind me! Oh you abusers of organized religion!!! :boxing2:  
In their drive for efficient action, Masterminds are the most open-minded of all the types.
I would like to think that this is one of my best attributes! :heartsmile:
No idea is too far-fetched to be entertained-if it is useful.
Key operative word here is USEFUL!!! wink
Masterminds are natural brainstormers, always open to new concepts and, in fact, aggressively seeking them.
 Gimme, gimme, gimme.... smiley
They are also alert to the consequences of applying new ideas or positions.
Theories which cannot be made to work are quickly discarded by the Masterminds.
Yep. Some things just have to get the bump ... :bump:
On the other hand, Masterminds can be quite ruthless in implementing effective ideas, seldom counting personal cost in terms of time and energy.
Don't I know it... :brickwall:

And then another interp said:
Perhaps the most fundamental problem is that INTJs really want people to make sense.
And why, I ask, has this never become a cool thing to do?? The world would be SO much better off if all non-sensical people just gave up embracing the "stupids" and went with good rational sense instead!  Does anyone else agree? :question:

All seriousness aside, however, I think by and large, this test is actually pretty close…so, pretty cool! Thanks Peaceful...(btw: nice to see you again! smiley )


p.s. Of course, not one of the interpreters mentioned a tendency to revert to an absurd use of emoticons when forced to face one's true self...  :redface:
89  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / More Contradictions in Religion... on: April 25, 2006, 01:52:25
I cannot be sure gdo, but we may be talking past each other. Sometimes I think we are on the same page, and sometimes definately not.

Maybe some other forum members can chime in and see if they can see better what is going on within our discussion.

Anyone willing to take a stab at it?

90  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Pagan Sex Orgies on: April 25, 2006, 01:20:17
Okay ... I believe you! I capitulate!! grin  I overstated my sterotype of Christians in general.

I truly hope that there are many different types of Christians throughout the world, and would love to hear more about them!

For the most part, however, the ones that I am most familiar with here in this country, USA, are not very open-minded about things. Even some of the most liberal can have some very conservative ideas. And unfortunately, many of these Christians are in positions of global power and are wreaking havoc around the world by trying to impose very unpopular -- and dangerous -- ideas onto the rest of the world.  All, I should add, in the name of Christianity.

91  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / The God Who Wasn't There on: April 25, 2006, 00:14:11
Quote from: Doch
Hi Beth.

Yes, I concluded for myself some time ago that Jesus (as portrayed in the New Testament) never truly existed. The same way that Buddha and Krishna never truly existed. What makes me feel a bit strange is the fact that so many people claim to meet/see Jesus when astralling, near-death, etc. I don't know exactly what to think about that  :think:

In my experience of the astral Doch, I have found that more often than not what "we see" is what have best been called "mental constructs."  I may, for example, create a version of my apartment, or my neighborhood, or even somewhere from my past in order to meet with other people, or do certain things that I want/need to do in the astral realm. Sometimes, of course, an experience occurs somewhere that I am totally unfamiliar with. These places may be mental constructs created by other astral bodies involved in my experience, or it could be a combination of them, rendering the scene totally unrecognizable to me.

So, because we "see" things in the astral, it does not mean that those things are "real" in the same sense that we perceive the people and things of this world to be "real."

Let me see if I can expound upon this further without losing all of us!! wink

The following is my current opinion -- which I always reserve the right to change as my experiences change, okay?  grin

I have seen Jesus on two different occasions, but not since I have become firm in my knowing that Jesus was not as he is portrayed in the gospels. But--"seeing Jesus" just means that I had no other "image" to mentally construct that would put me in touch with that particular energy frequency, i.e., Reason, Higher Mind, Universal Salvation, or even, My Personal Savior. So "I saw Jesus" in the form that I thought "he" would be like.

It is the concrete images of our experience here on earth, some of which are provided through our myths, that give us the "stuff" of these mental constructs--through which we are able to apprehend certain energy frequencies.

Astrally speaking, however--"Light" is the "stuff" of which all things are made, and as light, certain energy frequencies stand alone, or combine to create those things that make up that which exists.

It all depends upon point of reference.

In the Gospel of John in the NT, the writer used the image of "light" FIRST. If you are familiar with this gospel, you will remember that from the very beginning of all things, Light and God were One. As the gospel continues, the next image is Jesus in the flesh, then other images are used such as the bread of life, living water, the door, the good shepherd, etc., ending with a final "abstract concept of LOVE."  So, from the beginning of this gospel the writer started with "light" as a base premise, and then through a series of concrete images, was able to work up to providing the main image to teach through, which was: that God as Jesus is the Light of the World.  This metaphorical phrase is, however, still yet another image that serves the main theme of the gospel, which is in essence: "God Is Light."

I think that this ancient writer was trying to "show us" that "light" is always transformed into whatever "images" we need in order to understand the concepts that we are grappling with. This is what we do when we are in the astral. We use concrete images to apprehend concepts that are only abstract to us here on earth. The biggest problem with Christianity is that they stopped with the physical image of Jesus--which was just a personified image to help us understand metaphysical reality--and they made that "image" into "God" and never went further in their understanding.

In doing so, they have not been able to truly grasp the message of the gospel: "God" is "Light."  If then, "we are made in God's image" ergo, "we are light" as well.

From this we can gather that the whole of our physical world is also made from "light," but since our point of reference is here in the physical, we apprehend the metaphysical in physical images. From the point of reference of the metaphysical, however, all things in the physical are Light based images.

It is important to also point out that in my experience, these energy frequencies are autonomous to us, in that we apprehend "them" because they exist regardless of whether we apprehend them or not. In essence, they are very much "alive" in their own way, so let's say that the energy frequency of Jesus is indeed "universal salvation" or "personal savior" then that bundle of energy does indeed exist.

Humans will naturally apprehend that energy in whatever image, whatever mental construct, to them best represents that energy, e.g., an image of Jesus, of Buddha, of the inside of a church, of my apartment, and so on. To those of us who have been taught that "Jesus" is our "salvation" we will naturally "see Jesus" until we move on to other equivalent images.

Does any of this make sense?  It is, like I said, my own experience and my own opinion. But I think the fact that so many different mythological figures can be interpreted to mean the same basic thing as other mythological figures, that this unequivocal fact will bear out at least some of my opinion.

The important thing to keep in mind is that all of these things are JUST IMAGES. Images that move us from the concrete to the abstract. From the phyiscal to the metaphysical/mental/astral. In one way or another though, from the beginning to the end, existence is always -- Light to Light.

I also must say that to truly understand how all of this really works, "we" will have to evolve a great deal more than even we--astral travelers--have evolved. But we have at least a head start on most everyone else! wink

I hope this helps! grin

92  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / The God Who Wasn't There on: April 23, 2006, 22:45:00

No, I haven't seen it, but I also live in the buckle of the bible belt, so many such films do not show here.

While I agree that Jesus was only fictional, you will have to make this decision for yourself!

I will tell you that everything on the trailer is correct, so it may be worth it to buy the DVD (especially if you want an abbreviated version of why Jesus was not a real person -- it will save you the time of a lot of reading!)

~Beth grin
93  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: Life beyond physical Death on: April 22, 2006, 05:44:54
Quote from: patelvipulk
Many Eastern relegion believed in life after death ( reincrnation)subject.

I have been thinking a lot more about this topic since my Mother's death/transition and in light of all of my own metaphysical experiences.

I don't think we should just limit ideas of "life after death" to just include "reincarnation" here on this planet.

Sometimes I think that what we perceive as reincarnation "here" -- in the context of familiarity, bring drawn to a certain period of time, or even what seems to be actual "memories" -- may also have something to do with "cell memory" handed down to us from our ancestors as well.

While I certainly don't want to limit the soul's ability to take multiple trips to this planet, I also think that this just may be one of many options, and our natural tendency to limit our options to "this planet" is primarily reflective of our need for things to "be like" those things that we are already familiar with. That's a pretty "human" thing to do!

In short I guess, expanding the options of "existence" is something that I am wanting to do within, this is just something more to consider!

Anyway, if any of this makes sense to anyone else that would be great!! wink


p.s. Other ideas that I am considering: When we travel in our sleep/trace states, we know we are not on the same "linear time clock" as we are on this planet (if "time" can even be understood in a different way) and so being unlimited by "time" we are able to move our awareness back and forth across the earth's historical time zone and actually "visit" other eras.  Also, within the potential of parallel worlds theory, there are "other earth's" that are similar to this one, but yet different in very striking ways. We could also "visit" these as well and come back with the impression of wanting to seriously consider reincarnation as a reason for the "memories" or "resonance" of other time periods.

Gosh! There are so many possibilities!!! grin
94  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / More Contradictions in Religion... on: April 20, 2006, 04:44:58
Quote from: gdo
One with out definition...

Do you not see how "One with out definition" IS a definition?

You might also use the term NOTHING...

Do you see where this clearly means "non-existence," and therefore doesn't work at all, except for atheists?

as in NO-THING or not any definable something, at least the way most people think...

And even with your qualification, "no thing" tells us "nothing." It is a grasp to put into language "something" that is actually beyond our full comprehension.

Some one once discussed the idea that god was outside the universe and just observing what happened. I asked 'how can this be?' How can a creator be outside of its creation.

You were right to question this idea, but not for the reason that you did.

It would be quite easy -- and expected even -- for a creator to be "outside of its creation."  In fact, the idea that God is "inside of its creation" doesn't work at all, because as the creator and maintainer of everything, being inside of anything means that God has "outside boundaries" and therefore has "limitations."  

God cannot be "omni/all" and have limitations.

The reason that this idea must be questioned, is that for "anything to be outside of the universe" -- which is by definition "everything that exists" -- is quite impossible; especially its creator (for the reasons just explained, and to argue otherwise is to become dizzy from running around in linguistic circles.)

The idea that "the name of God is so Holy that it is ineffable" is not because God is Holy, but because "to name God" is impossible. This is what makes God "Holy."  This cryptic way of referring to God is not a mystical thing at all really, it just simply means that there are no words to adequately accomplish the task.

Now, all of these things are not errors in our thinking so much as illustrations of the limits of our language. To ponder God is an excellent thing to do, but for God to be what we all instinctively believe God to be, no limits can be placed upon the concept. Language by nature defines. Definitions are limitations, e.g., not that, but this.

Humans have pondered God for millennia, and "Omni/All" may be the best that we can ever do, and even then, to fully expound upon such a theology we inevitably run into serious problems somewhere along the way.  

As long as we are dependent upon language to conceive of "God," we are just shadowboxing within the limits of our language -- which will, unfortunately, always be the case when it comes to "God."

As Wiggenstein said, "What we cannot speak of we must pass over in silence." This is not a mystical motto concerning God; this is a self-explanatory statement regarding language itself.

While we cannot ever adequately "talk about God," the important thing is to never stop "pondering God"!!! And the most successful at this will do so in silence. grin

95  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Energy manipulation is luciferian? on: April 18, 2006, 01:27:07
It is unfortunate that the word "magic" has been given such a negative stigma. It is just a descriptive word afterall...

Fortunately, however, the use of the word "magic" for what you are talking about kai wren, is not even necessary. The processes behind the intentions -- and the intentions themselves -- is what really matters, no matter what you want to call it.

Username: if you want a really good example of energy manipulation, just tune into any political convention, e.g., the Republican National Convention, or the DNC. There you will find individual beliefs being heightened to a 'frenzy' through thousands of individuals coming together with the same intention in mind. They are, without doubt, using 'energy' to manipulate the world around them.

Energy is energy. Manipulation of energy is easy. Every human does it everyday---all day long.

The challenge is: to manipulate energy with clear intention (which is exactly what "magic" is) and to have only good intentions while doing so.

The "proof" of whether your intentions have been good -- or not -- is found in the world that you create around yourself.

As far as Christianity's position on this, well, I suspect that as long as the energy manipulation creates something that conforms with their doctrine or their dogma, then it would be considered from God, or even God's will.

If, however, the energy manipulation gives rise to something that goes against their beliefs, then it is the work of Satan (Lucifer, whatever.)

96  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / More Contradictions in Religion... on: April 17, 2006, 03:13:12
Africans that beat drums to dispel the power of spirits are held in scorn by Americans who blow their horns to break up traffic jams.

 :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:

I swear Mustardseed, that was SO FUNNY it brought tears of laughter to my eyes!!  

Thanks love!:flowers: I really needed a good heart-chuckle tonight!!  

This whole Religion Biz can be so serious sometimes...

Yours truly,
~Beth grin

p.s. Sadly enough though, the comment you made above is only too true...and people are too blind to see that there is no difference...
97  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / More Contradictions in Religion... on: April 15, 2006, 15:19:14

Until recent centuries, humans have wanted, and perhaps even needed, to place gender identification to powers that exceed our own.

And, it has then been a natural move to choose such a gender that each individual person can identify most with as being able to have such power.

It is not that women automatically choose a female gender and men a male gender, but rather, it obviously can apply both ways. But "men" and "women" are the only labels that we can consistently conceive of as having such power. That is why it is said that 'Humans create the gods in their own image'. Because, to date, that is exactly what we have done.

While investigations into the sub-atomic realm of consciousness is definately the best, and most current idea that is being studied and considered these days, I suspect that our delving into such will only prove to be one of the powers at hand in the universe, and not necessarily the greatest power of all. The universe is a very large place, no?

I think we are a long way from discovering the actual greatest power in the universe.  Mainly because we are, as a species, so far down the intelligence and awareness scale, we will naturally want to identify all new discoveries that we make in such a context as GOD.

In other words, there may be sub-sub-atomic levels of consciousness, or even sub-sub-sub levels, that we have yet to discover. We, as humans, must walk before we can run. Extending this metaphor, right now some of us are just now learning how to crawl.

With the sheer number of people on this planet (still lying in the cradle) totally stuck in gender identification deities, with many totally dependent upon ancient beliefs, it will be many years before this planet is transformed enough to be able to fully grasp and implement the next level, let alone any other levels that may supercede all the wonderful things that we are discovering about the sub-atomic realm of consciousness.

I think our discoveries into consciousness is telling us much more about ourselves, and our true identity, but not necessarily about what could be labeled as GOD. But once again, it is probably a natural human tendency for us to think such a thing.

Just my thoughts on this...

98  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / More Contradictions in Religion... on: April 15, 2006, 03:34:28
Quote from: gdo
When you know that 'god' is one, it may be hard to put it into common enough language for others to easily grasp.  Each persons experience will be different enough, but it will also be the same.  (now there is a contradiction for you)  LOL.. shocked

Well...there you go again gdo!!!  As soon as I think you are talking straight, you curve things up again!  :doh:   wink

Outside of my scholarly expositions, I have personally pondered the "God is One" thing for quite a long time, and I have come to the conclusion that even this, as a description, puts limits on God.

In doing so, humans just create more room for disagreement:

One What?
One Who?
Which gender?
One Religion.
One Holy Book.
One Way.
This One not that One.
One -- or Nothing.

I don't know the answer to the mysterious identity of God gdo, but something tells me that we are all wrong...

99  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / More Contradictions in Religion... on: April 13, 2006, 04:21:34
gdo...I can't argue with anything that you just said!!!  grin
100  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / More Contradictions in Religion... on: April 11, 2006, 05:11:07
Quote from: gdo
It is interesting that you use my last quote.  Does not matter.

'Argue for your limitations and you will keep them'

Why wouldn't I consider your quote? And yes, in the context that you placed it, it matters a lot.

Would you rather I had chosen something from your previous post, like:
The references to the powers of god are not god but human ideas of what those powers are. The WORDS we use do not define god...

which basically refutes any attempt to put any 'words' to use in "defining God", including your insistent description: "mono-"...

But I won't pick your newest quote apart, but would only say that I think that it applies to how we put limitations on God as well...we get stuck with 'em...

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