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1  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: New Biblical Research on: October 02, 2005, 04:46:03
Quote from: Beth

Let me know what you think.

Hi Beth,

 I gave the material a read and found it very captivating. In fact, I plan to return and give it a another slower read as time permits. You've done a tremendous work imo which contains tons of great info yet remains easy to read and follow.

Whoever designed the web site deserves a 'hat tip' also.

The downside is this may be a hard sell for those still trapped in a biblical, religous belief system.

I look forward to the remainder of Part Two. Best wishes and keep up the good work.

2  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Try 'Scrying' technique for alt. phasing method. on: September 29, 2005, 02:29:23
Greetings all.

Rather than use a commercial made 'crystal' ball which may contain defects (tiny air bubbles), you can make your own 'gazing glass' or 'black mirror' rather easily.

For those interested, I made one years ago during my CM phase and it turned out beautiful.

I had a local glass shop cut me a 7 inch diameter circle of plate glass which is 1/4 inch thick. I put 2 or 3 coats of FLAT(non-reflective) black spray paint on the back side of the glass.

While letting it dry I cut a piece of 1/2 inch thick plywood in the shape of a triangle 16 inches along each side. After sanding the edges, painting the wood white and then spraying it with a protective plastic(I think) coating I then mounted the mirror paint-side towards the wood with 3 of those little L-shaped plastic mounts like you sometimes see holding up mirrors in restrooms. They use one screw to mount into the wood. The little mounts were clear plastic so spraying them first with the flat black paint before using them cuts down on any distracting reflections or shiny points. Three mounts will hold the mirror securely.

The end result is like gazing into a round, deep, black hole set in the middle of a white triangle.

On a side note:


I stepped again through the gazing glass and encountered the Greaters.  I don't know what else to call them.  My friend, the single Greater who welcomed me, has a name, but also a sense of self that utterly defies the limitations implied by "name".  I call my friend Sowantha, only because that was the name I was told, not because I think I can somehow sum this entity up with a single word.  Sowantha is neither male nor female in any sense that I can perceive, yet there is an overall femaleness to the world of the Greaters...

It seems they can also be used as dimensional 'doorways' similiar to what Robert Bruce(I think it was RB) has experienced with 'entering into' paintings.

3  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / "Condie, I need to potty." on: September 19, 2005, 23:04:06
Check out the photo for a laugh. Is he asking Condie for permission? Surely he realizes his own bladder is full. Who knows.


Reuters - Wed Sep 14, 4:39 PM ET

U.S. President George W. Bush writes a note to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice during a Security Council meeting at the 2005 World Summit and 60th General Assembly of the United Nations in New York September 14, 2005.

Please, somebody hold my President's hand.  embarassed

4  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Miracles of the Qur'an on: September 05, 2005, 21:56:36
Quote from: Berserk
The parallels to these miracle stories are taken from universally discredited Christian infancy Gospels variously composed from the late 2nd to the 5th century CE.  Far from being revealed by Allah or Gabriel, they are sheer fiction.  Their use by Muhammad is just another indicator that his revelation is bogus.

According to this Jesus bloke in the Gospel of Mark:

"Why does this generation demand a sign? I assure you: No sign will be given to this generation!"
he did no signs. Therefore, the signs, miracles and wonders he finds himself surrounded by in the gospels are sheer fiction. I notice Paul never mentions them in his epistles, which btw are dated earlier than the miracle filled gospels. There use by 'Mark' and other gospel writers is just another indicator that their revelation is bogus.

Perhaps Mark and Muhammad should arm wrestle and settle this dispute.

5  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Terror Possibility for August 6th and 9th on: August 02, 2005, 13:58:28
These bankers are dropping like flies:


Ex-Citigroup banker Zankel dead in fall - report
Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:52 PM BST

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Arthur Zankel, a former Citigroup financier and patron of the arts, died in a fall from the ninth floor of his Manhattan apartment building, The New York Times said on Saturday...
Zankel, 73, fell from the Fifth Avenue building on Thursday in an apparent suicide...

And what about this bloke?


Former Euro bank chief found dead in pool

FAUCON, France, July 31 (UPI) -- Former European Central Bank chief Wim Duisenberg drowned in his pool Sunday after an apparent heart attack.He died at his villa in Faucon, southeastern France. Duisenberg was the first president of the ECB from 1998-2003 and is credited by many with a smooth transition to the Euro, the BBC reported.
Duisenberg was born in 1935 and worked for the International Monetary Fund before going to work for the Dutch government. He served as Finance Minister for four years in the mid-1970s.

Sounds like spook games but maybe it's just that word... apparent.

August 1, 2005

‘The Long Knives of August’, United States and Israel Begin Retaliatory Killings over September 11th Massacre in New York

By: Sorcha Faal, and as reported to her Russian Subscribers

Russian Intelligence Agencies are reporting today that the ongoing Secret War being conducted between various Intelligence Agencies in both the United States and Israel against each other has taken a most ominous turn as retaliatory killings have begun over what the United States believes was Israel’s masterminding of the September 11, 2001 massacre in New York City...

Btw, if we here in America ever get our much vaunted dirty bomb attack from the ethreal, slippery al-qaeda, do you think the masses will remember the details of all these  Israeli agents arrested(and later deported) near US nuclear facilities or in other suspicious circumstances?

All instances documented in mainstream press:

1. Kings Bay Naval Nuclear Facility; Georgia

2. Nuclear Fuel Services Plant, Erwin, Tennessee

3. More Israeli moving van connections in Chicago, w/ Sears Tower videos

4. Whidbey Island Naval Station; Oak Harbor, Washington

5. Cloudcroft, New Mexico chief stops Israelis with suspicious cargo

6. weeks after 9-11, 6 in U.S. captured with possessed photos
and descriptions of a nuclear power plant in Florida and the Trans- Alaska
pipeline, and then released to go on their merry way in the Midwest...

7. 9-11, the five "dancing Israeli Mossad", already in place ready to film
the 9-11 hits, worked out of a New Jersey moving company. Dominic Suter, the head of the moving company--who fled to Israel when his Mossad cell was arrested on 9-11--ended up on an FBI terrorist watch list distributed to the Italian banking authorities. Chertoff, then DA of New Jersey, simply let the Mossad cell go back to Israel without charges.

8. The DEA Report: Israeli "art students" operating a spy-ring in Florida
and around the country are documented in this DEA/FBI report. The spy ring
maintained residences close enough to the purported 9/11 hijackers so that
official sounding stories now parrot the official line that these Mossad
operatives were watching the 9/11 hijackers with the cooperation of the US
government. This German Intelligence Report goes much farther, stating
that in fact they were the operators of the "al Qaeda" cell in America...

In view of this I have to take notice when no_leaf points me to Juval Aviv via the Fox News link:


I predict... that an event is imminent and around the corner here in the United States. It could happen as soon as tomorrow, or it could happen in the next few months. Ninety days at the most.
Juval Aviv is a former Israeli Counterterrorism Intelligence Officer,2933,161962,00.html

I agree, that bloke should know.  rolleyes Let's check and get a current threat assessment from Secretary(don) of Homeland Security,
Michael Chertoff:


Chertoff warns
of nuclear terror

Homeland Security secretary sees WMD threat as major concern

Issuing yet the latest warning of the threat of nuclear terrorism in the U.S...
Chertoff said the foremost concern for the nation's security now is the threat of a larger chemical, biological or nuclear attack.

Well at least he does something when he's not deporting Israeli spooks out of our country. I notice WorldNetDaily is really blowing the propaganda horn, they're practically giving lessons on surviving gamma radiation.

Fearmongering? Yes.

Will they eventually try another black op? Yes

Nice job no_leaf, you keep me thinking.

6  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Joe Vialls Passed Away on: July 19, 2005, 11:47:48
It is with great sadness that I pass on to you the information that my friend Joe Vialls passed away suddenly and unexpectedly last night in Perth Western Australia after a period of illness.

His wife Marilyn rang me early this morning to tell me the sad news. I was very surprised as I talked to him only a few days ago and he said he felt a little better.
As we all know Joe made a large contribution to Internet Journalism, in an effort to reveal the truth that the media fails to print.

The irony is that about 5 years ago I suggested to Joe that he get onto the net. He replied ' what on earth would I do on the Internet'? The rest is history, he got on the net and found his place there.

Farewell Joe - at this very moment he's probably checking behind Gods throne to see if the Mossad are there!

We who knew him will miss him greatly.

Mike Macaulay.
Perth Western Australia.

If you've never studied Joe's writings on the Bali bombing, you owe yourself a good read.

7  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Terrorist attacks in London on: July 10, 2005, 14:19:33
My sympathies to all those affected by the attack.

As usual, I've learned a bit as I read through these posts.

Quote from: astralp

Arutz Sheva sourced Army Radio with the following.

"The Israeli Embassy in London was notified in advance, resulting in Finance Minister Binyamin Netanyahu remaining in his hotel room rather than make his way to the hotel adjacent to the site of the first explosion, a Liverpool Street train station, where he was to address and economic summit."

Astralp, imo you're hitting too close to the V-ring. The above was the AP news release that came out of Jerusalem. I haven't heard anyone in the blogs or news mention the fact that Netanyahu appeared on the CNN/Lou Dobbs show here in the US on 8 July. Notice the original report above said the attack resulted in Netanyahu remaining in his hotel room rather than traveling but on the Lou Dobbs interview he gave this response:



DOBBS: Let me first ask you, there are reports, and they surfaced yesterday almost immediately and continued today, that Israeli security forces received advance word of these explosions. Any truth to that?

NETANYAHU: Well, certainly not. If there was any advance notice, then I don't know of any. It certainly didn't get to me.

I was en route to the hotel right above that terminal. And I was stopped by the British security detail, who told my security, my Israeli security detail, that we just had an explosion. So my guys had absolutely no idea that this was about to happen...

DOBBS: You were on your way to the Liverpool Street...

NETANYAHU: And actually, I was on -- yes, to an economic conference right above the place where the first train blew up. So we had no idea this was going to happen.

I saw that last one on TV, he was getting a bit tongue tied to say the least.

Then we have this in the Jerusalem Post:

In the aftermath of the attacks, The Prime Minister's Office instructed Israeli officials not to give interviews to the foreign media.

Aye, mum's the word mates. I bet Netanyahu got his arse chewed out by Sharon for stuttering to Lou Dobbs, heh.

Oops, what's this?

Terrorism expert says at least one person tipped off to London attacks
Tom Kenny
Action News 36
Jul 7, 18:25 PM EDT
Terrorism expert Tommy Preston of Preston Global in Frankfort, Kentucky, said sources in the intelligence community reported that at least one person in London, England was warned of Thursday morning's terrorist attacks moments before the initial blast.  Preston, citing sources in the intelligence community, said former Israeli Prime Minister and current Finance Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, was in London this morning for an economic forum.  "Just before the first blast, Netanyahu got a call from the Israeli Embassy telling him to stay in his hotel room.  The hotel is located next to the subway station where the first attack occurred and he did stay put and shortly after that, there was the explosion," Preston said.

Local Kentucky Station WTVQ

I tend to believe Tommy Preston, you can read about him here:

A native of Carrollton, Preston opened a one-person PR office in Lexington in 1968. From that point, The Preston Group grew into a multi-disciplined firm attracting national and international organizations such as Blue Cross Blue Shield, Dow Corning, the U.S. Selective Service, Occidental Petroleum and the eventual majority whip of the US Senate and former governor Wendell Ford. Preston served four years as Gov. Ford's special assistant, press secretary and commissioner of the Kentucky Department of Public Information.
In the mid-1980s, Preston developed a model for public relations contingency planning and response against terrorism and workplace violence. He formed Preston Global in 1996 to focus on aggressively defiant crises facing corporations, institutions and individuals.

A UK Fellow with a journalism degree from UK, Preston is the only Kentuckian to be elected to the College of Fellows of the Public Relations Society of America. He has received more than 100 state and national communication awards from organizations including the International Film Festival, the International Film and TV Festival of New York, the Gold Camera, the US Industrial Film Festival, PRSA, IABC, the Kentucky Press Association and National Editorial Association

Obviously, the man has some contacts.

When the bombs go off I no longer look around for "evil ayrab islamics",
I just try to pay attention to what's happening in spook-world.

Modern terrorism is a hybrid animal.

8  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: Happy Easter everyone! (or should that be 'Eostre'?) on: March 26, 2005, 23:38:17
Quote from: Gandalf

PS I wonder what the anglo-saxon goddess would have thought about *chocolate* eggs though!.... I don't think she'd mind, after all, most women love chocolate! wink

I can't speak for the women but the thing I enjoy most about Easter are the chocolate Cadbury Creme Eggs. Perhaps Eostre would approve.

Happy Spring Equinox,
9  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / The Evidence for 9/11 on: March 21, 2005, 05:30:31
Quote from: no_leaf_clover

Yes, and that 9/11 research site responded recently with an article titled "Popular Mechanics Attacks Its
"9/11 LIES" Straw Man". lol

Thanks, I hadn't ran across that one previously.


I agree that the whole experts vs experts thing is confusing to people, but a little thinking and scientific 'common sense' can certainly aid on some issues, if there's anyone up for it. I'm no scientist by any means but some of this stuff is basic (towers falling for example..).  

Yes and don't take me wrong, I appreciate every single site that calls attention to this subject. In fact, just this evening I heard from an old high school friend who only seems to call once every month or two. He's asking me about some new laptop that he's considering as a purchase then out of the blue he pops out with...

"Hey, have you ever checked out this website"

I reply, "Yeah, why?"  and off he goes talking about 9/11 and how Bush this and the CIA that. I was impressed because I'd always respected him as a "Mr Practical" type, he never just blew with any wind blowing. That plus he didn't get any input on the subject from me until tonight, he did his own legwork and came to his own conclusion. The sad thing is we both voted for Bush and now we feel like fools.


A LOT more people seem to just be blindly following the media, and blandly labelling anyone that raises such points 'conspiracy theorists' with a negative connotation...  

Such as this?

"Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the 11th;
malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists, themselves, away from the guilty."

George W. Bush before the UN, 11 November, 2001

From my perspective, deep within the bible belt of the 'land of murka', the powers that be appear quite fearful of the internet. The whole idea of being globally connected and no longer having to rely merely on American media for our single news source seems to get under their skin. The 'Michael Meirings' start coming out of the closets.

I live and work among many Americans who have read the complete 'Left Behind' series and they honestly believe Bush is helping God fulfill their version of Biblical Prophecy. These folks are not very concerned about Peak Oil or government complicity with 9/11 because Islam is the Beast you see. It's all evil and fear (unless you're one of the 'chosen'). I don't want to hear about the petrowar, can't you see the Nascar race is on? Israel, blood and locust, Jesus is coming back to wipe out all those deluded Jews and Muslims unless they see the light and become Fundies, etc.

It's very surreal stuff, maybe I should do a 'reality check' and look at my hands. Perhaps this is just Gandalf's dream and he'll wake up and let me escape.  wink

10  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / The Evidence for 9/11 on: March 20, 2005, 15:18:04
Quote from: no_leaf_clover

I have seen architects say the exact opposite and explain how...

I think this is the whole problem in a nutshell clover.

When it comes to the scientific/physical evidence. Our experts vs their experts and the jury winds up confused.

To my thinking, this makes the physical evidence such as how the WTC's collapsed, whether explosives were placed in the towers, whether the planes were remote controlled, whether an airliner really hit the Pentagon, etc. basically irrelevant. Remember, they hauled the evidence away and recycled it. I have to agree with the ex-cop Ruppert again by saying it's far better to be focusing on "documentary, non-scientific lies and using as a starting point only official statements of the US government, hard records and reports from the government and established mainstream sources."

Btw, did you know that Popular Mechanics came out with an article debunking 9/11 researchers?

What I find amusing is the article is written by Benjamin Chertoff, allegedly a cousin of our new Department of Homeland Security Director Michael Chertoff. Haha, call it a funny.
Speaking of Michael Chertoff, I really sleep better at night knowing we have a dual citizen (Israeli/American) in charge as Homeland Security Czar. <enter sarcasm>

11  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / The Evidence for 9/11 on: March 20, 2005, 14:26:07
Quote from: Don Corleone
I appreciate that the views expressed are those of the website mentioned and not necessarily of the posters here.

My apologies for your confusion. My views are fairly close to the views of former LAPD narcotics investigator, Michael Ruppert who discovered that the CIA was trafficking in drugs in 1977. After attempting to expose this he was forced out of LAPD in 1978 while earning the highest rating reports possible and having no pending disciplinary actions.

"In 1996, he finally achieved one of his deepest wishes in a face to face public encounter with then CIA Director John Deutch on national television. Washington sources later told Mike that Deutch's mishandling of the encounter cost him a guaranteed appointment as Secretary of Defense.

On November 28, 2001 Mike gave his first post 9-11 lecture at Portland State University, which was attended by more than 1,000 and resulted in a standing ovation. FTW's video, The Truth and Lies About 9-11, has sold more than 15,000 copies. It includes special exclusive interviews with Representatives Ron Paul (R-TX), Cynthia McKinney (D-GA), Barbara Lee (D-CA), Professor Peter Dale Scott, (UC, Berkeley), Professor John Metzger (Michigan State) and Catherine Austin Fitts (former Assistant Secretary of Housing and Managing Director, Dillon Read)."

Those were his sourced materials that I linked to previously.



The documented pre-Sept. 11 insider trading that occurred before the attacks involved only companies hit hard by the attacks. They include United Airlines, American Airlines, Morgan Stanley, Merrill-Lynch, Axa Reinsurance, Marsh & McLennan, Munich Reinsurance, Swiss Reinsurance, and Citigroup.

In order to argue that the massive and well-documented insider trading that occurred in at least seven countries immediately before the attacks of Sept. 11 did not serve as a warning to intelligence agencies, then it is necessary to argue that no one was aware of the trades as they were occurring, and that intelligence and law enforcement agencies of most industrialized nations do not monitor stock trades in real time to warn of impending attacks. Both assertions are false. Both assertions would also ignore the fact that the current executive vice president of the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) for enforcement is David Doherty, a retired CIA general counsel. And also ignored is the fact that the trading in United Airlines stock -- one of the most glaring clues -- was placed through the firm Deutschebank/Alex Brown, which was headed until 1998 by the man who is now the executive director of the CIA, A.B. “Buzzy” Krongard.

One wonders if it was a coincidence then, that Mayo Shattuck III, the head of the Alex Brown unit of Deutschebank -- which had its offices in the WTC -- suddenly resigned from a $30 million, three-year contract on Sept. 12, as reported by the New York Times and other papers.
The American exchanges that handle these trades, primarily the Chicago Board of Options Exchange (CBOE) and the NYSE, know on a daily basis what levels of put options are purchased. “Put options” are highly leveraged bets, tying up blocks of stock, that a given stock’s share price will fall dramatically. To quote 60 Minutes from Sept. 19, “Sources tell CBS News that the afternoon before the attack, alarm bells were sounding over unusual trading in the U.S. stock options market.”

It is hard to believe that they missed:

- A jump in UAL put options 90 times (not 90 percent) above normal between Sept. 6 and Sept.10, and 285 times higher than average on the Thursday before the attack– [CBS News, Sept. 26]

- A jump in American Airlines put options 60 times (not 60 percent) above normal on the day before the attacks. [CBS News, Sept. 26]

- No similar trading occurred on any other airlines. [Bloomberg Business Report, the Institute for Counterterrorism (ICT), Herzliyya, Israel citing data from the CBOE]

- Morgan Stanley saw, between Sept. 7 and Sept.10, an increase of 27 times (not 27 percent) in the purchase of put options on its shares. [ICT Report, Mechanics of Possible Bin-Laden Insider Trading Scam, Sept. 21, citing data from the CBOE].

- Merrill-Lynch saw a jump of more than 12 times the normal level of put options in the four trading days before the attacks. [Ibid]

These trades were certainly noticed after the attacks.

“This could very well be insider trading at the worst, most horrific, most evil use you’ve ever seen in your entire life…This would be one of the most extraordinary coincidences in the history of mankind if it was a coincidence,” said Dylan Ratigan of Bloomberg Business News, interviewed on Good Morning Texas on Sept. 20.

“’I saw put-call numbers higher than I’ve ever seen in 10 years of following the markets, particularly the options markets,’ said John Kinnucan, principal of Broadband Research, as quoted in the San Francisco Chronicle,” reported the Montreal Gazette on Sept. 19.

The paper also wrote, “Agence France Presse, on Sept. 22, reported, ‘And Germany’s Bundesbank chief, Ernst Weltke, said on the sidelines of the meeting that a report of the investigation showed “bizarre” fiscal transactions prior to the attacks that could not have been chalked up to coincidence.
“Weltke said the transactions, ‘could not have been planned and carried out without a certain knowledge,’ particularly heavy trading in oil and gold futures.”

ABC World News reported on Sept. 20, “Jonathan Winer, an ABC News consultant said, ‘it’s absolutely unprecedented to see cases of insider trading covering the entire world from Japan, to the U.S., to North America, to Europe.”

How much money was involved? Andreas von Bulow, a former member of the German Parliament responsible for oversight of Germany’s intelligence services estimated the worldwide amount at $15 billion, according to Tagesspiegel on Jan. 13. Other experts have estimated the amount at $12 billion. CBS News gave a conservative estimate of $100 million.

Not a single U.S. or foreign investigative agency has announced any arrests or developments in the investigation of these trades, the most telling evidence of foreknowledge of the attacks. This, in spite of the fact that former Security and Exchange Commission enforcement chief William McLucas told Bloomberg News that regulators would “certainly be able to track down every trade.”

What is striking is that a National Public Radio report on Oct. 16 reported Britain’s Financial Services Authority had cleared bin Laden and his henchmen of insider trading. If not bin Laden, then who else had advance knowledge? Who else had certainty that the attacks would succeed to give them confidence to make millions of dollars in stock purchases?

It has been standard and established USG policy to be alert and responsive to anything even remotely resembling an attack on U.S. companies and/or the economy. The word “remote” does not apply here. The possible claim by the Bush Administration that, ‘Gee, we just happened to miss this,’ becomes even more implausible when considering the lengths intelligence agencies go to in order to track stock trades.

full article here:

Seems like the ex-narcotics detective has quite a bug-a-boo for sourced materials which I just happen to share.

Quote from: Don Corleone
 It just really annoys me when people ignore all of the facts and evidence just to push their own bizarre theories.

Well it annoys me a bit when people wander around under a
light-sweet-crude blanket of denial but what the hell, you still have a cool nick.

12  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Re: The Invasion of America on: March 19, 2005, 12:46:08

the United States will be invaded by a united Russian and Chinese army...

I fail to see why China would waste the lives or the petrol for such overkill.

They could jerk our economic pants down to our ankles by just dumping the $1.9 trillion they hold in U.S. currency and Treasury notes.

Voila! instant defeat of Pax Americana.

13  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Modern christianity is false on: March 14, 2005, 02:13:27

the bible is composed of two parts, the old testament and new testament. The old testament is around 4000 years old, and is the Jewish Torah...  

Hello Isiah. You mean the Jewish Tanakh, correct? Which includes the Torah, the five books of Moses.

Doug, I agree with your authorship dates and I don't wish to highjack the thread, just wanted to call attention to the Babylonian and Sumerian accounts of the creation and flood. Some of the Sumerian clay cylinders are 4000 years old, much older that the Hebrew accounts and imo seem to add much light upon the schizophrenic behaviour of the Israelite god especially in reference to the flood.

The Sumerian account of the creation of mankind is the one I found quite telling:

"Oh my son, rise from your bed, from your... work what is wise, fashion servants of the gods.

Oh my mother, the creature whose name you uttered, it exist, Bind upon it the image of the gods; mix the heart of clay that is over the abyss, The good and princely fashioners will thicken the clay, You, you do bring the limbs into existence; NINMAH will work with you, the goddesses(of birth)
will stand by you at your fashioning; O my mother, decree it's fate, NINMAH will bind upon it the image of the gods, It is man."

Also that Sumerian play on words:

"My brother (Enki), what hurts you?
 My rib hurts me.  
To the goddess Nin-ti (`Lady of the Rib')
I (Ninhursag) have given birth for you."

The word for "rib" in Sumerian is "ti" which happens also to be the Sumerian verb "to make live."  So the Mesopotamian author of the myth is employing a pun to equate the "Lady of the Rib" (Ninti) with the "Lady Who Makes Live" (Ninti)

The Hebrew author(s) in Genesis didn't catch the pun, there is no similarity between the Hebrew word for "rib" (tsalah) and "to make live" (hayah).
I would love to hear Beth's view on the Sumerian accounts but it seems to me as a Hebrew I could say, "Yes, retelling but telling the way it really was."

Of course as a Sumerian I might reply, "Plagiarism, pure and simple."

14  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Channeling God!! on: March 13, 2005, 15:43:19
Quote from: Isiah
I find this very offensive. Mustardseed,...

That is interesting. Isiah, if I came to your town with an army smelling of sheep and goats, then killed men, women and children in the name of biblegod would you find yourself offended? What if my name were Caleb or Joshua?

15  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / The Evidence for 9/11 on: March 13, 2005, 11:18:18
Quote from: no_leaf_clover

I'd never even heard of the Reichstag Fire, though it's definitely worth remembering, wouldn't you say? Don't think it's even in any of our history books.

I've always had a high level of interest in that time/era perhaps since my dad served in Europe during WWII.

We were spoon fed the "Pearl Harbor" analogy after 9/11 but yes, I'd say the Reichstag is worth remembering. Maybe what bothers me the most are some of the quotes from that era:

‘Naturally the common people don’t want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.’

Hermann Goering

or this:

‘An evil exists that threatens every man, woman, and child of this great nation. We must take steps to insure our domestic security and protect our Homeland.’
Adolf Hitler

Quote from: no_leaf_clover

Of all the things I've read and watched of 9/11, I think what sticks out most now are the ways those buildings collapsed. I mean.. think about it.

Yes. It's all very bizarre. As for the physical evidence, I've never seen a government be in such a hurry to recycle 'evidence'. It's just steel garbage mates! No worries though, we've installed these trusty GPS devices on the trucks to make sure you drivers don't lollygag around and spend too much time on your lunch breaks. We need to get this 'evidence' barged up and sent to the recyclers.

Whatever. I just try to stay in observer mode although I admit to finding the Game fascinating. Thanks for the links.

16  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / The Evidence for 9/11 on: March 12, 2005, 23:17:08

24.  summer 2001 (est.) - Pakistani ISI Chief Gen. Ahmad (see above) orders an aide to wire transfer $100,000 to Mohammed Atta who was, according to the FBI, the lead terrorist in the suicide hijackings. Ahmad recently resigned after the transfer was disclosed in India and confirmed by the FBI. The individual who makes the wire transfer at Ahmad's direction is Ahmad Umar Sheik, the lead suspect in the kidnapping and murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. [Source: The Times of India, Oct.11, 2001.]

42.  August/September 2001 - The Dow Jones Industrial Average drops nearly 900 points in the three weeks prior to the attack. A major stock market crash is imminent.

50.  Sept. 6-7, 2001 - Put options (a speculation that the stock will go down) totaling 4,744 are purchased on United Air Lines stock, as opposed to only 396 call options (speculation that the stock will go up). This is a dramatic and abnormal increase in sales of put options. Many of the United puts are purchased through Deutschebank/A.B. Brown, a firm managed until 1998 by the current executive director of the CIA, A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard. [Source: The Herzliyya International Policy Institute for Counterterrorism (ICT),, Sept. 21, 2001 (Note:The ICT article on possible terrorist insider trading appeared eight days *after* the 9/11 attacks.); The New York Times; The Wall Street Journal; The San Francisco Chronicle, Sept. 29, 2001]

51.  Sept. 10, 2001 - Put options totaling 4,516 are purchased on American Airlines as compared to 748 call options. [Source: Herzliyya Institute - above]

52.  Sept. 6-11, 2001 - No other airlines show any similar trading patterns to those experienced by United and American. The put option purchases on both airlines were 600 percent above normal. This at a time when Reuters (Sept. 10) issues a business report stating, "Airline stocks may be poised to take off."

53.  Sept. 6-10, 2001 - Highly abnormal levels of put options are purchased in Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, AXA Re(insurance) which owns 25 percent of American Airlines, and Munich Re. All of these companies are directly impacted by the Sept. 11 attacks. [Source: ICT, above; FTW, Oct. 18, 2001,]

57.  Sept. 10, 2001 - According to Newsweek, a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly cancelled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns. [Source: Newsweek, Sept. 24, 2001]

63.  Sept. 11, 2001 - Gen. Mahmud of the ISI (see #24 above), friend of Mohammed Atta, is visiting Washington on behalf of the Taliban. He is meeting with the Chairmen of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, Rep. Porter Goss, R-Fla., and Sen. Bob Graham, D-Fla., [Source: MSNBC, Oct. 7, 2001; The New York Times, Feb. 17, 2002]

entire list found at:

9/11 = America's Reichstag Fire

17  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Iran attack? Just Say No, Tony on: March 10, 2005, 13:55:33
Quote from: Gandalf
In fact it is the ability of an individual to criticise their own government that *makes* a free democracy. Your notion that americans who criticise the government are somhow 'traitors' and 'unamerican'...

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."

Thomas Jefferson, 3rd US President, author of Declaration of Independence.

Quote from: Gandalf
Of course the line you are promoting is exactly the propoganda that has been flowing out of the white house over the past few years... which you have swallowed hook, line and sinker.

Indeed Doug, I used to swallow it myself but these days there are a great many splinters in my mind. For instance this bloke Michael Meiring:

Guy blows his legs off in a Davao City hotel room, big news in the P.I.
I have a relative that lives in Davao so I started sniffing on this. Funny you seach this name on CNN or FOX and you get nada.

My country is smoke and mirrors.

Maybe I'm just getting old an cynical which is probably a good thing since I'd rather not spend all my fancy US Army markmanship training killing Muslims, Arabs, Iraqis or whatever Rummy's flavor of the day happens to be.

Btw, if another country illegally invaded America and occupied her with foreign troops I'd be tempted to heat the asphalt at night and plant IED's in the road. Well perhaps not, I'd probably end up like Michael Meiring.

18  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Re: New research opens window on the minds of plants on: March 04, 2005, 19:10:27
Thank you for the link Telos.

"There is still much that we do not know about how plants work, but a big part of intelligence is self-consciousness, and plants do not have that," says Heike Winter Sederoff, a plant biologist at N.C. State.

Well I'm not sure about "self-consciousness" but concerning consciousness I'm reminded of a portion I read in the book Far Journeys years ago. In the early days of  the Monroe Institute they were involved in the Explorer data which was channeled information concerning consciousness. One evolved consciousness which manifested referred to itself as Mirasol if I remember correctly. I took the liberty to type out the following. Monitor refers to Bob, Other Voice refers to Mirasol.


Other Voice: I apologize for being so late, but I need to thank you and tell you that I glad you received my message. If you would like to explore these levels, I would be happy to do so with you.

Monitor: I would appreciate it very much.

Other Voice: "As I have said to you earlier, plants exist on levels one through seven. They are on a vibrational rate, one through seven. It is the same pattern. Animals exist on the levels eight through fourteen, and when a person attains, when a consciousness attains level fourteen, it can no longer go any higher unless it is willing to change it's form of consciousness. Levels fifteen through twenty-one are what you call human life on this earth. When a person progresses to level twenty-one, he then has the choice of going higher or staying within the realm of human form, but he cannot go higher unless he is willing to give up human form."

Monitor: "Give up being human?"

Other Voice: "Levels twenty-two through twenty-eight are your bridge. They are your levels that you enter upon death. You are on level twenty and because that is an ascending level, you can enter into the realm beyond physical life, but you cannot stay there unless you are willing to give up your human form. Is that clear?"

Monitor: "That much is clear, yes."

Other Voice: "And then when a person or a consciousness - we are talking about consciousness - reaches level twenty-eight, the bridge is crossed, and from that point on for a consciousness to evolve higher, it would not again assume human form of any kind, not even as a learning experience. I will never incarnate again as a human - as another form of life, yes, but not as a human. The words are very hard because your plane of existence is not the same. Perhaps I can explain it by asking you to image seven of the circles, which would give you the forty-nine levels. The first three levels are physical matter as you know physical matter. They are your plants, your animals, your humans. The fourth circle is your bridge, you realm, your center for that overall plane. It is the time in which a consciousness can choose whether to go back into the lower levels or to transcend into the higher levels, and many consciousnesses do choose to go back into the lower levels in physical form. The upper three circles are the realm that in your consciousness is called the spiritual realm, and here much of the work is done. I could not help someone who was not on the eighteenth level very much because my plane, my vibrational rate would be different. That is why it is hard for me to help you with specific problems. I can give you ideas, but I cannot give you the direct guidance I could if you were on level eighteen. Our planes do touch since yours is an ascending spiral --- an ascending, what is your word for that? It is an ellipse. It is an ascending ellipse, and therefore I can cross and communicate with you but not as directly. Once I reach level forty-nine, which I will, I then leave all of this realm of existence. It does not mean I have reached the highest point by any means. It simply means I have left this group of seven. Imagine, if you will, the seven circles enclosed in an even larger circle upon which seven more circles are stacked, which is in turn enclosed in even a great(er?) circle. Then you can have some idea of what infinity is, it does not ever stop."

Far Journeys, Copyright 1985 by Robert A. Monroe

Whoa... consciousness, circles, ellipses, spirals, infinity. Dare I mention the multi-dimensional universe? Do you suppose a domesticated house plant would be more prone to make the consciousness transition from the first "circle" of physical matter to the second (animal) circle?

Quote from: Telos

Edit: I just thought of something. In your mind, does this elevate plants to a closer position with humans? Or does this reduce humans to a closer position with plants?]

Plants closer to human but then again I see the glass as half full.

19  Astral Chat / Welcome to News and Media! / Iran attack? Just Say No, Tony on: March 03, 2005, 21:43:40
You may think pooping your pants and running away because the bad people are coming is the best way to deal with people who murder hundreds of school children and saw off people's heads for fun and profit.

Amazing, you sound like a sound bite from Rumsfield except he gets confused about shooting down some plane:

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: And to change that way of living, would strike at the very essence of our country.

And I think all of us have a sense if we imagine the kind of world we would face if the people who bombed the mess hall in Mosul, or the people who did the bombing in Spain, or the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania and attacked the Pentagon, the people who cut off peoples' heads on television to intimidate, to frighten -- indeed the word "terrorized" is just that. Its purpose is to terrorize, to alter behavior, to make people be something other than that which they want to be.

Those of us with balls and a spine will take care of you...

Indeed. That statement concerns me much more that some al-qaida boogeyman.

P.S. yothu, thank you for the link to the article by William Clark.

20  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / The End of Days? on: February 24, 2005, 19:00:07
Quote from: Colossus999
I'm a Christian, so I believe in the bible. Somewhere in Revelations it says that the generation that witnessed the recreation of Israel as a country will not die out before the apocalypse. So basically I'm saying it will be very soon. Be prepared...

Actually that teaching sprang from Matthew 24:33

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Modern day Israel is considered by many fundies as the "fig tree" which put forth leaves in 1948.

Personally, I tend to agree with Victor Ostrovsky... if there is a 2nd coming, he'll probably turn out to be Mossad.
21  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: The Death of Robert Monroe on: December 11, 2004, 11:41:33
Quote from: Berserk

 One of the symptoms of pneumonia is a troubling cough caused by fluid in the lungs.  Monroe's exclamation, "My lungs are full of water!" sounds like "God" is angered by Monroe's disdainful attitude and therefore allows him to experience a key symptom of the agent of his imminent death.

But what does "God" mean by forcing Monroe to simulate his future fatal pneumonia?  Is this really God or merely an impersonator?  According to the Bible God's wrath is the other side of His love.  Monroe disdains words like "God" and "spiritual".

be gone or a house may fall on you too!

  If Monroe's body took physical damage, it was more likely due to the extremes of that particular projection than to some deluded consciousness with a god complex.

The book is called Ultimate Journey for a reason.
22  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Big Thanks! Vibrations & HolyCow!! on: May 01, 2002, 12:27:27
First let me say thank you Robert for your work and your book A/P. It is now my main manual and believe me, I have quite a collection. Everything from Monroe, Buhlman, Daskalos, Crowley, Castaneda, etc. Your views on the mind-split and the Astral Wind and Pulse are what I feel a breakthrough not to mention mind boggling. When I read the part where you met your son Jeremy I was totally blown away by the intensity of that moment. A mere "thanks" doesn't seem adequate but you get my drift.
  I've lurked here for a couple weeks now browsing and reading (some of you feel almost like family already) but I'd decided not to post until I made a bit of progress and had something of interest to report.
   Last night I was down here in my basement computer room when I decided to work on my relaxation and trance state. For some reason things felt different than usual so I went upstairs and lay in bed with my wife and 5 yr old daughter who were already asleep. I did a bit of energy work and was really concentrating on my breath. Anyway I got my breathing so slow it was amazing to hear the comparision to how my wife and daughter were breathing. Tranquil, peaceful... kept this up for almost an hour and then thought "what the heck, might as well try the old rope again." Keep in mind I have failed so many times in the past (been trying this stuff for 15 years off and on) it is so tempting to just give up sometimes. So I'm lying on my back and I reached up, imagined the feel of it and started climbing while still trying to keep my breath slow and regulated. Within a minute I felt that strange feeling in the pit of my stomach so I kept at it. Then this pounding came into my chest so I kept climbing and it got stronger and stronger. Over and over I had read your warnings about what to expect and to be prepared but Holy Shmoly man!! It was so strong it was breaking my concentration in climbing and thought after thought was flying through my mind. "It's the vibrations.. OBE or bust baby! No it's my heart chakra. No! It's my real heart.. I'm gonna have a heart attack. How in the hell is this pounding not waking up my daughter laying right beside me? Gonna do it man... get out, look at my hands and jump right back in. Oh no, I've lost my breathing focus. Keep climbing you wuss!! You're losing them, you're losing it, etc. etc."
  Well I let it slip away and I don't know why because it wasn't lack of desire. I noticed my breathing was still slow so I knew it wasn't my physical heart causing it... surely I would've been breathing like a race horse if my heart was really pounding like that. I remember telling myself, "this stuff is for REAL!" It actually felt like someone was pounding a fist on my chest faster and harder. I've never been that close before and I find myself discusted and totally excited at the same time.
  Anyway, I was hoping for some tips from those of you in the know on how to keep that state going to the exit. I didn't even think about rolling my eyes upward to see if I could bring it on full body or whatever. My mom and dad crossed over back in 1997 and I would so love to visit them and spend my time helping people who are hung up in the real-time zone, lower lvls, etc. You folks know the feeling right? Like you're not learning these things for the first time but trying to re-learn talents that you knew from other lives whenever.
  Sorry to be so long-winded. Perhaps I'm making up for 2 weeks of silence all at once.


23  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Don't you get sick of being human? on: September 24, 2004, 11:09:09
Originally posted by MakiZero

Don't you want to be something more and not this flawed creature?

Yes, I wish to be a human graduate.[Cheesy]

Otherwise, I'd never have "signed up".

It's been said... "graduates of the human experience are highly
respected in other dimensions."

24  Psychic and Paranormal / Welcome to Psychic and Paranormal! / Just an introduction on: August 05, 2002, 03:46:00

  Welcome to the forums mirac.

my best to you,

25  Integral Philosophy / Welcome to Integral Philosophy! / Magic and Christianity on: July 29, 2002, 13:02:41
Originally posted by kakkarot:

chohan: "As for magic... if you have faith in Jehovah and Messiah then imho I feel you are barking up the wrong tree. If Moses, Elijah and Yeshua were magicians then Franz Bardon is my mom." this is kind of confusing. in the first sentence, you seem to be saying that god is a hoax, and in the next you are saying that people-who-say moses and elijah and yeshua were fakes are wrong. am i reading this right?

  kakkarot - my apologies for the confusion, bad sentence structure on my part. Moses and Elijah are prophets of Yahweh both of which he used to cause great embarrassment to the magicians. It's true the magicians of Egypt managed to match some of Yahweh's works but only until Yahweh became bored with the contest.

  This same Yahweh (Most High God/Creator of All) took on flesh as the man Yeshua. The NT tells us He laid aside His heavenly privileges(advantage). Yeshua didn't operate as God, He operated as a prophet under the Abrahamic Covenant with the fullness of the Spirit. He played by the rules because He MADE the rules. Yeshua used His own word to resist His temptation by Satan in the wilderness and I believe it was true temptation to His humanity. Later He called Satan the 'prince of this world' and at other places in the NT Satan is referred to as 'Prince of the power of the air' and the 'god of this world'. That's quite plain if we turn on the TV and watch the world news for 30 minutes.

  Paul wrote, "we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. "

Speaking of the mystery he said, "Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. "   This is not referring to human princes. So why would they not have crucified Him? They didn't understand what was happening when Yeshua said "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up."
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

 The result from an authority standpoint: Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And has put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

 He delegated this authority to his body (those who believe and follow him). He gave us power of attorney. You have His name, His blood and His word. If someone is not a believer then I say learn all the magic you can because you definately need it to defend yourself but I'm not going to trade my two-edged sword for a pocket knife.

My best to you,

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