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751  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Techniques to not be so tired after projecting on: April 24, 2011, 03:19:07
That sounds great!

It certainly is a clever idea. And i appreciate it. I am grateful. Going to try that tonight. How long should the nap be 20 minutes?

Feel weird asking for more after that, but will it help me be less tired in the morning?
752  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Techniques to not be so tired after projecting on: April 24, 2011, 03:03:33
Uh -oh


Oh yeah, and just practicing, 9th day or so straight, but definitely pretty close, can sustain a deep f12 for a prolonged period, I am just fighting with all the many things I am attempting to embody.
- breathing
- not moving eyes
- focusing thought energy
- dealing with all those damn bits of light that distract me
- cars going by my house
- the occasional itch i gotta ignore (didn't get those at first and through ya'll were crazy, but really %$*# those itch/twitches)
- feeling for vibrations
- staying focused
- getting too tense
- ignoring those crinkly sounds right in your ear your pillows and blanket make as your paralyzed body sinks/moves
- confirming feelings and states

You get the idea.

But again...Nap!?  shocked
753  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Defining my curent Focus Level on: April 24, 2011, 01:55:55
Cool, I am stoked.

That is a good additional description to the red clockwork I saw felt/perceived. But it also raises the question, wtf was I seeing in my first vision.

LOL red foggy- complex clockwork.  shocked

Excited & Pondering,
754  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Techniques to not be so tired after projecting on: April 24, 2011, 01:50:22
Ok I know that a lot of people AP in the morning, but my lifestyle only allows me to give it a go before bedtime.

Anyway, I wake up and I am friggin exhausted. I mean this is my 9th day or so of straight practice projecting every night. And I can say that the tiredness and "laziness" I feel in the morning is nowhere near what i have felt ever in my life. And I am classified as one of those people with "too much energy."

I have heard that I will start getting used to it if I keep  practicing. Which I am, it has definitely bettered over the last few days. but I have found tearing myself out of bed and getting through about an hour + espresso is the only way to kickstart my circuits.

Does anyone have practical strategies that they use to keep up their energy in the morning?

Thanks in advance!
755  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Possible first projection!! on: April 24, 2011, 01:35:48
Something I am workin' on right now is opening both my astral eyes. I didn't know you actually had to try and open them. Frank says a good bit about simply telling yourself to see clearly and you will. You might want to give that a go.

756  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Defining my curent Focus Level on: April 24, 2011, 01:31:43

I will def give that strategy a shot.

I am sure it all comes down to practice. Which i am willing to give.

Last night I got my furthest,(well each night I am getting just a tad bit further, so every night is my furthest,) and I was hangin around in a Deep F10-F12 for quite some time, mentally repeating "Open your astral eyes, open your astral eyes" I one point I think I focused enough to see a very dim two red circles(horizontal like two eyes, but farther away, open up with fuzzish edges. These areas were both dull deep red, and it looked like clockworks turning. I was mesmerized for a good 10 seconds before dropping back down to a strong f10. Don't know what to make of it, but it certainly was neat.

Can anyone describe an experience of what it looks and feels like when one opens their astral eyes?
757  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: Any Modern Deists Here? on: April 24, 2011, 01:22:37
Wow, thank you for that elegant response. That was awesome.

That was the best argument I ever heard for atheism, good show. I guess pantheism, is more of an accurate term for what i am then, since you totally just beat up my idea of the possibility of an intelligent creator. i'm sold. i mean i wasn't in love with the idea to begin with, but if he exist through logic, then that fact is a very logical way of disproving it. liked that very much.

Couple other thoughts to lay on you, don't forget when we take the material world and look at the smallest thing we can see, ya know quantum physics, it all just appears to be energy. So is the material really material or simply another state of wave energy with different "dimensional" characteristics.

Thanks again,

lol - you can't say $h!t here. didn't mean. "I mean excrement" lol - was baffled by that. good times.
758  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Defining my curent Focus Level on: April 23, 2011, 05:52:52
Thanks 316!

I appreciate the one on one answer.

Yeah, I am getting to f12 really easy now, just dealing with my physical eyes moving. They are being so god damn disruptive. I am sure it just like my breathing. I just can't focus on not moving them because inevitably, that will just make me move them.

You rest them looking at your nose or bent all the way back?

Good stuff. I was working with my Tai Chi master today(complete skeptic) but he was talking about the power of intent. and how friednly/angry intent when throwing blows can make a huge difference. He didn't beleive in the energy behind it, but he does beleive his Masters, which have been doing this 60+ years.

Thx again.
759  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Finally! A Visual Model of F2 on: April 23, 2011, 05:47:33
Thanks for the input, keep it comin!

I made a rough F3oC diagram too from when I read between Monroe and Frank. I am waiting until I get there and experience it before I actually post it, but it will come.

Can anyone confirm that F22 is where dreams occur? I thought that place was scary and full of comatose and crazy minds. Maybe nightmares.

My interpretation was that dreaming was simply a renegade brain in the training zone, jumping all over the place because it is acting on a uncontrolled source of thoughts and emotions. When you enter lucid dream state, the brain is still goin all over the place, but you understand that you are observing the stuff. And if you gain further control wouldn't it be just like a WILD? Hence the term DILD? Please someone confirm or correct this. I want to make the model right.

Bed- What is the purpose of sleep paralysis? I would gladly put it in because I certainly have been in a deep F10 with nearly no feeling of my body, but I can't confidently say it is even worth mentioning, just neat. And isn't the purpose to get beyond that? I could see a dead end box with it in that.

Xanth- Thanks for the insight. I have been wondering that for some time(because i still feel my body), no where does it come out and say that though. No one ever really "defines" body asleep. Well beside jeff, but he just says its not the point of putting your body asleep, just making your brain believe it is that is important.

KEEP all the insight coming. I want more direction on boxes and arrows. Wouldn't it be nice to have a formal diagram to put up for all the newcomers? I mean really, over half the answers we give are just the same simple questions over and over.

760  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Falling asleep during WILD on: April 22, 2011, 07:36:33

What to do to keep you awake?
Don't puss out. Keep your head in the game. Use willpower. If you find this exciting, you shouldn't be getting disinterested enough to pass out. On a more positive note, you could also try someplace other then your bed because that is subconsciously(can i even say that around here, hah!) associated with sleepytimes.

As a first, I ran into this horrible breathing problem when I entered 12(vast darkness after you follow the vibrations there)
I tried everything. Dude. It suxX3d. hard. But honestly it was practice and reassurance when in that state that I was not goin to die. Point is, i totally tried the mouth open thing, it just messed me up because it would get dry. Use through your nose ans focus on diaphragm breathing. After 3 breathes or so, you can shift your focus else where and your body picks up the slack. Its when you use chest lift breathing that you will hyperventalate. Also, when in f12 and freakin out about breathin, focusin on the rise and fall of the ever so slight pressure the blanket put on my chest was helpful because if I ever focused on my breathing, I would switch to chest based breathes and it would be all over.

As frank said, your body's got a checklist of excrement that is essential and breathin' is one of them. You have to reteach your body that its cool to not have that feelin'.

Also, You are usin' that energy gatherin stuff. This ain't a time to gather energy, this is a time to use it and all you got stored up from doin that earlier. You gotta focus on one point on your forehead and concentrate. Eventually those vibes will come, and keep focusing through them. Then you'll get to f12 and deal with that breathin excrement i got above. Thats your next step.

Hope that helps. Practice practice practice.



761  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Best way to keep some consciousnees when going to sleep? on: April 22, 2011, 07:21:43
I found simply relaxing and waiting till your body goes numb, if you don't move it for 5-10-20 minutes, trust me even if you ain't tired, it'll start to fall asleep. The real trick(I think jeff said it) is to convince you mind your body is asleep, since your mind is actually the vessel to the voyage, not your body. Personally, once its all numb and whatnot, its a lot easier to convince my brain my body is asleep and when its numb, scratches and breathin are easier to manage.

Even if I got tons of vibes, I wait at least 5 minutes until I unleash them.

I still thin frank said it the best, go read his stuff. + the eye still technique, he didn't mention that, he kinda locked his behind the normal range of motion. Long story short, just wait till their tired.

Good Luck!

762  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Re: Any Modern Deists Here? on: April 22, 2011, 06:08:10
Yeah, I was a deist until I started astral travels. And even now, I feel that deism still best describes my religion, that is if I have to choose an -ism. I am a true teleological reasoner.

I mean c'mon, look at all the relations to all the religions of astral/OBEs.

Logically, they can't all be true representations of what is, but by exploring their core, I find that the astral actually accurately describes most all of them.
I mean excrement. It even describes Joe Smith and the book of Mormon. I mean the poor soul was lookin' into F2 at night beleivin' what he saw. And he kept writing it down. That's why he was alone when he was writin' the damn thing.

Every man does what they believes is the right choice within his constraints of information. We have to find the patterns in the base information they are using to make decisions.

A close second would be Taoism. I mean he describes how one should live once they understand what the Way is. But call me taught Western, but I do believe just because one understands the Way and where their will inevitably be doesn't mean one shouldn't...well can't make the most of the physical realm and achieve great heights. One should enjoy the dualism of evolutions and stagnant periods. Not simply succumb to stagnation because of inevitability.

Anyway, awe is what i feel. And reason is my guide.

763  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Links between F4 of Conciousness and Taoism on: April 22, 2011, 03:11:04
Hey again!

Through fate, I guess, Right before my first Astral experience, I met an individual who was a into Tai-chi and Taoism. I was always curious, so I tried it out. Honestly I was uber-skeptical because if you have ever seen them, the movements of Taichi look like that of a very disciplined crazyman. I still think they do, but i understand all the difficulty is internal. It is not an external thing.

Regardless, so the Master of the dojo gave me the Tao de Ching(Sp??) second book of Taoism to read. My mouth dropped because the whole thing is essentially about F4oC.

I have a feeling all real religions at their core (IDK, maybe the playing spaghetti monster was an f2 thing, grin) stemmed from what we are all exploring. (another correlation being "forgiveness" in Christianity - one will perceive no evil in the astral realm if they believe they are free. Anyway, heres the link to the Tao de ching:

You make your own interpretation whether this dude was simply goin to f4 all day and teaching people about it. Oh for reference, I think f4=The Way in his mind. I mean, he didn't really have the letter f in his culture.  wink what else was he goin' call it.  tongue

PS: He also wrote a book called "The Secret of the Golden Flower" which is literally a guide to astral projection. Which talks about how to get to the way. Yes, you guessed it, it involves deep meditation and concentrating upward. I can't find a link for that one. Sry guys, you are own your own there.


764  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Finally! A Visual Model of F2 on: April 21, 2011, 23:00:30
Good Evening All!

I am the kind of guy who breaks everything down when he discovers it to better understand it.

The pen may be mightier the the sword, but design is certainly mightier the pen.

Here is my model, It is based off of Monroe and Frank and my own experiences. I have not personally made the f12-15-21 transition yet, but I am definitely close.

As Frank always said, it is so easy to get misunderstood on these forum, so please do not take this as fact, yet, or this as me trying to introduce my own model. I simply want to get input from everyone possible so as a community, we can help the world. I want your advice, and understanding, so please speak up. I hope this model can give newcomers the direction I desperately needed a couple weeks ago when I started this journey. Again, This is not a final draft, I want more advice so we can make one. Thank you in advance. wink

765  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Defining my curent Focus Level on: April 21, 2011, 02:19:16
Hi All,

I pulled an all nighter last week, and finally went to pass out on the couch on my side. The long and short, is I had extreme vibrations and felt like i was being pulled out, but didn't get out. Next morning was off the wall about what happned, and searching for answers found you guys. (Thank god, since there is so much crap out there) This last week has changed my life. I am totally in awe.

First off, thank you for existing, because simply the existence of these answers and this forum has helped me out such a great deal.

Anyway, ever since, I have been reading Frank and posts here like a madman and practicing each night. God Bless Frank and all his posts, that sticky was awesome.

I could have kept slinking around like I was doing, but have finally decided to speak. I have so much I want to talk about and ask, but I do ever detest nubs with long butt first messages and no focus(yes, pun intended.) So here's my question/point.

Where exactly am I on the f10-f12-f15-f21 scale?
A deep f10? A solid f12? past that? and can anyone lend advice/guidance to me at my current state?

Facts on my experiences and skill level:

- I can lay down an over a period of 5-20 minutes and my body below neck goes numb - proficiently - EZ
- I can focus and achieve vibrations - EZ
- The vibrations take me upward (just slightly, not like rocket, thats what worries me)
- I enter a new blackness that is VAST, i cannot tell if it is 3-D since i have no frame of reference
- Then I have major hyperventilation problems at the start, but am almost over them through practice(Solution: I feel my chest rise to touch blanket to confirm breathe)
-KEY - when i enter this place, i feel as though someone threw a sheet over me while i was still laying in bed
- Thus I feel my body ever so slightly, and down below the vastness
- After a good 10-30 seconds in this place my breath still gets the better of me and I open eyes.

I am not sure when I am not supposed to not feel my body or really how to get away from it. (Frank said to roll out/blast off)

So where am I? Please give any advice to excited new guy that you may feel would of helped you at my stage.

Thank you all in advanced. TTYS.
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