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1151  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: confused on: March 05, 2009, 02:46:19
Leave it to CFTraveler to hit the nail squarely on its head, just as she usually does...(reply #5). grin

The thought that JB1987 might be the 'abductor' didn't occur to me until later, but that makes good sense, and gets my vote after some reflection.

Always a step behind, but happy to listen and learn...

1152  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: any tips for me? on: March 04, 2009, 03:49:27
You seem to be describing two separate things.

1) When you're still 'in' and spinning, flopping around...just let go as best you can and see what happens; worst thing is you fall asleep. You are, experimentally, fishing around for your own particular exit trigger. Only you can find it. What you read and what we offer here can at best, be only hints for what will work for you. Take notes, keep a journal...a year from now you'll be glad you did.

2) You describe being 'out', even if for just a few seconds or so...realise that this is a normal period of mental adjustment taking place. And it can take many small excursions like this for your 'awareness' to adjust and reorient itself to it's new environment. It's 'Focus Training'. And it can take some time and be quite frustrating literally every step of the way. It's astral baby look at it as fun and adventurous.

1153  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Some sort of progress? Or no? on: March 04, 2009, 03:19:13
Welcome Lunarflower,

it sounds like you're getting some activity in your brow chakra; keep working with that and do some searching on these forums on 'chakras'. Also, there's a helpful 'Astral FAQs' section worth spending some time on. The more you can read from these 'Permanent Sticky Topics', the more info you will have to correlate with what you experience in the early stages of your practice. Little tidbits of what you read will eventually resonate with what you experience, and then you'll start to have some context to work with.

Go with the flow through your brow chakra; you may find yourself in the RTZ (RealTimeZone) or in the 3D Blackness. Research both those terms.

See you out there!

1154  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: I THINK I DID IT!! on: March 04, 2009, 02:57:51
I think ancient_one states it pretty succinctly,

once I 'tune in', I automatically shift my focus elsewhere and forget about the vibrations. When I rejoin the physical, I may notice the vibrations or I may not. Sometimes I can 'rev' them up again for another excursion, or if my energy is low, I can't and they fade or slow down.
1155  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: I THINK I DID IT!! on: March 02, 2009, 05:30:54

what I was trying to describe in the last paragraph of my response about the WBTB method was with regard to your description of your experience where you explained that you woke up at 7am, got something to eat and then returned to bed.

The Wake Back To Bed method recommends that you go to sleep at your normal bedtime, say 11pm, but rather than getting a 'full' nights sleep ( say you normally wake up at 7 or 8am) instead you set your alarm for 3 or get up and putter around for 30 minutes to an hour and then return to bed and begin your meditation or exit process. Now, the trick is, during the 30 minutes to an hour that you're awake, don't just lay there dozing, but also don't go jogging for an hour. Maybe read for awhile, stretch a little, clean your room, write some OBE affirmations...the trick is to do something 'in between' for both your mind and body that both engages them and 'wakes' them up but NOT TO THE POINT where you feel like now you're fully awake and might as well just stay up and start your day.

If you just lay there dozing, you're more likely to fall back into sleep; maybe at best you'll get a Lucid.

This technique serves two important purposes: 1- your physical body has had enough 'deep, restful sleep' that it won't just drag your awareness down into the depths of oblivion; 2- your awareness will still be 'relaxed' enough that you can more easily enter into a 'trance state' which translates to an exit opportunity with more lucidity.

It's a fine line, a delicate balance, to find what initially works for you. Maybe this, coupled with the Buhlman technique that you found is 'your' particular trigger. Experiment and have fun!

And don't necessarily expect any exit symptoms immediately, it can still take an hour or more; sometimes nothing happens for me until I give up and roll over to go back to sleep...then BANG!

After years of evening meditations, toying with exit symptoms, I realised, quite by accident that the early morning tek was my individual trigger. Maybe with time and continued practice, I'll be able to succeed with an early evening exit someday.

Also, what CFT said...ya gotta climb the rope. In more ways than one. grin

Keep on trucking!

1156  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: confused on: February 27, 2009, 05:16:09
Probably some senior members such as CFTraveler, Stookie, Selski, et al could lend a more experienced viewpoint.

But I'll offer this:

If your friend is interested in and predisposed to OBE and had the possible intent of 'visiting' you, then the answer seems pretty straightforward in that a 'helper' assisted him in coming to visit you. Could have been a seperate entity, if he somehow put out a strong enough desire/message; could have been his 'guide' or even an aspect of his 'higher self'. Who knows?

Sometimes you get exactly what you ask for! Pretty cool.

The idea of 'abduction' would be way down on my list.

1157  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: I THINK I DID IT!! on: February 27, 2009, 03:31:10
Congratulations bonthan,

I'll add a little to what dbmathis said,

In the old days, according to Theosophic theory, you encountered the "Dweller on the Threshold" phenomenon, which basically postulated that every new astral projector would encounter a 'guardian' standing at the 'gates of the astral' challenging any who would think they were worthy to enter...

IMO, and what seems to be the more modern thinking is that this is some residual subconscious fear that you still hold, even though you may be unaware of it, and this is how it manifests, scaring you or challenging you, trying to get you to retreat back into sleepy unconsciousness. Just the simple fact that you didn't let it terrorize you and blow the whole experience is a significant accomplishment. Next time the horsehead may not even appear; if it does (and it might even change form) then you'll need to deal with it.

You have several degrees of options: the best would be to send it waves of unconditional Love, thank it for its gentle warning, but tell it that it's no longer necessary, that you're ready to move forward. Or, you could 'COMMAND' it to leave you alone in any manner of personally suitable ways. Or you could attack it, whereupon it may instantly retreat or give you a good fight...or simply ignore it and focus on moving out of body.

Eliminate negative thoughts as best you can, anywhere, anytime. Also, program your subconcious with positive affirmations toward what you are trying to accomplish; it seems almost too simple, but it is nonetheless very effective.

The other thing I notice is that , yes, the Buhlman technique seemed to work well for you, but also keep in mind the WakeBackToBed (WBTB) method that you may have inadvertantly applied. Your body was rested but could fairly readily slip back to sleep, same with your mind. But you keep your mind occupied 'just enough' while your body slips easily into a very relaxed state, and that's when the fun begins. grin

Hope some of this gives you ideas.

1158  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Blind on: February 20, 2009, 06:34:45

this is frustrating, I know, it still happens to me from time to time.

Walking, talking, seeing...all seem like simple, straightforward things that we should be able to perform pretty easily but that's not always the case.

I think it all has to do with the fact that when we are OOB we are not operating a physical body but rather an 'energy body', and all the sensory inputs and tactile, mobility commands that we are used to, no longer operate in the same fashion as the physical.

Your mind has to now first figure out how to properly receive new sensory data, translate it into something that it is familiar with and then figure out how to manifest a response to it.

Like a baby learning to walk, talk, grab itself.

Movement is not physical, it's mental...either by floating or flying or instant transport.

Talking is sometimes verbal, but mostly telepathic.

Vision is of differing types, sometimes distinctly physical and narrowly-focused, othertimes 360 degree bodily awareness, and sometimes clairvoyant--seeing/knowing. It can be quite confusing!

Your mind is just trying to figure out how to translate this new data, how it should perceive it, receive it, organise it.

I have tried the "Clarity now!", "I want to see!" method four times, twice it worked and twice it didn't...

You might try some daily affirmations like, "I am now able to see clearly when out of body", to program your conscious and subconscious mind for the next level of awareness that you are trying to achieve. This seems important to me in that you are trying to get your mind to incorporate a new type of data into your world of experience that it is, so far, rejecting or incapable of translating.

Not necessarily a big deal; if you're trying to learn how to ride a bike and your feet keep slipping off the pedals, then you spend a few minutes focussing on keeping your feet firmly planted on the pedals...until it becomes second nature; then you work on the next thing.

And with OBE, there seems to always be 'a next thing". Whether it's big or don't be frustrated.

Enjoy the ride!


1159  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: Did I just have an OOBE??? on: February 13, 2009, 04:29:01
Personally, I'd qualify it as a projection, but as VagusEques says, you had a lot of dreamstate overlay/interference.

That's a large part of the fun in deciphering just what's going on, especially in the early stages.

But your excellent, detailed description shows, at least to me, that you had good awareness and good memory of the event. You became aware early on, and you apparently , consciously ended the experience.
There was plenty of 'reality fluctuation' as Robert Bruce puts it, but you reported it quite clearly.

Being in an 'unfamiliar place', with not totally 'familiar people' made for a confusing environment where all sorts of misunderstanding could occur.

So the question of 'was it real or dreamstate?' becomes a question of degree...and that, is ultimately, up to you.

1160  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: OK, what's the problem here? on: February 12, 2009, 04:33:36

Everybody is different to some degree; nobody has an answer as to what will absolutely work for you.

All I can say is to keep trying; the result is worth it!

We all have different situations and triggers that may work for us, so experiment.

You may not get vibrations or sounds; maybe you're more visual.

In my own experience, I may try hard for weeks on end with no results; so I walk away and just drop it for a month; then something unanticipated happens all by itself. Go figure...

Research this site and fill your mind with all the information these people are sharing; it's invaluable and at some point something will resonate with your experience.

Read the books; I have accumulated over thirty on this subject.

Vary your attempts. Try getting up for half an hour in the middle of the night, reading for awhile and then observing yourself fall back to sleep. Monitor your consciousness like you were fishing on a river, with the current (sleep) constantly tugging at your lure (your consciousness), and you gently maintaining its position, giving a little line then slowly reeling it back in, all the while observing what's occurring.

If you get sick, catch a cold or get the flu; this can be a great opportunity, though not the most desired one, while you're in one of those fitful sleeps, your mind is tired and off balance--you might find an exit opportunity.

What you're looking for is that 'accidental moment' where you 'apply your intent' and achieve an OBE. And your mind/subconscious says, in response, "Oh, is that what you were looking for?" And the all important first connection is made.

In my understanding, the vibrations and sounds are not beyond the sleep stage, they are precursors or just before it.

Hope some of this helps

1161  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: First time using phasing technique on: February 12, 2009, 03:32:18

great phasing experience! The mind screen is where it's at!

in as quick a summary as I can,

Currently there are two basic types of OBE:

Classical OBE--exiting the physical body in a projected double into an environment that appears to be a real-time physical/etheric counterpart to 'our' physical world, with a multitude of subtle variations. Authors Muldoon and Peterson describe these.

Phasing--nearly, if not total, physical immersion into dreamstate and other dimensions, ranging from spiritual to parallel realities. Authors Monroe, Kepple, Moen describe these.

Great stuff in each; one leads into the other and vice versa.

For the latest, greatest research, study Frank. And all the veteran posters I mentioned.

With regard to guides, personally, I've 'asked' numerous times, but still no response. Maybe I'm deaf.

Still on my own,

1162  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Any Helpfull hints? on: February 12, 2009, 03:04:58
Yes, the vibrations are almost always a wonderful indicator/signpost that you are close to an OBE, though not an absolute guarantee.

Also, you may find that, over time, the vibes begin to diminish in intensity or disappear altogether. Why, I don't know; maybe we just become so accustomed to them that they lose their prominence; maybe they're just a subconscious signal that we provide ourselves that we finally no longer need.

Another thing you mention is body position for OBE and yes, I would recommend experimenting with that. Try a more upright position, propping yourself up in bed or sitting in a recliner for an OBE attempt and see what that brings.

I got that idea from one of CFTravelers posts, that she uses a recliner frequently. It occurred to me to try it one morning and I had the most amazing phasing experience as a result.

Good progress acidicstar, I'm still jealous. smiley


1163  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: OK, what's the problem here? on: February 09, 2009, 03:20:01
owl and saberdog,

you're very welcome, I'm happy to share what I know (or at least am pretty certain of  grin).

Twenty years ago, I didn't have all these different techniques and bits of theories to work with, therefore I stuck with the plain old 'meditate in the afternoon or evening' technique. What I should have tried was getting up at 2 in the morning, or 3 or 5am; or taking a nap in the middle of a quiet Saturday. Reinforcing my OBE desire by reading, or using affirmations all the while.

At some point, the connection is made, often seemingly by accident...and then we have a couple OBEs. Then if that connection can be steadily reinforced, it becomes more permanent and useable.


you mentioned 'clarity of mind'. Yes, once you get a taste of your first few OBEs, many people find a tremendous variation in their clarity. Sometimes you're dumb and stumbling, sometimes clueless as to what to do next, othertimes you feel seems to vary according to your energy level and your intent.

It is always an adventure!

1164  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Any Helpfull hints? on: February 09, 2009, 02:51:50
We're not ignoring you; we're probably just jealous at your apparent success so quickly achieved. grin

Seriously, that sounds like a good start! Don't get frustrated by the fact that for every single step forward, it seems that you come to a halt and ask, 'Okay, where do I go from here?' That's the way the process seems to work for most of us.

Although you didn't achieve an outright conscious OBE through your 'relaxation stuff', IMO you sent a strong enough message to your subconscious that it set up the proper conditions once you relaxed enough and fell asleep; then your subconscious 'woke you up', with everything ready to go. Nicely done and a big THANK YOU to your subconscious!

That may in fact, be YOUR technique to work with for awhile. You may try some others, but damn, that sure seemed to work right out of the gate.

2 ways to work with the vibrations. 1) Many people experience them as a fiery ring of vibrating energy that encircles the body and travels up and down, head to toe and back. You work on controlling the vibratory rate and the travel rate, slowly increasing both in frequency until you feel like 'lifting out'.
2) You feel the vibrations as a generalised, non-specific, whole-body vibration and just work on raising the frequency to the point where you try a 'liftout' (pick your own point as I still can't define where mine is).

This may or may not work the first few tries; don't get frustrated, it's a lot of small steps.

1165  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: i think i am projecting on: February 07, 2009, 05:15:26
Like jub jub said,

when it happens, you'll definitely know it. Same with vibrations; it may start as a light buzzing or tingling in one part of your body, but full-blown vibrations will be unmistakable, they will shake you to the core and likely scare the hell out of you the first few times.

Keep trying, keep researching...and enjoy the journey!
1166  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: tell me about the physical world on: February 07, 2009, 05:04:19
There is no such thing as an 'easy technique'.

It's not a question of 'hard' or 'easy'.

You have to find the technique that works for you. There are many, many 'signposts' that can point you along the way. Many of your questions can be answered by doing research on older posts on this website.

When you hit on something that works for you, then it will seem 'easy' least for that one step...

Then, just like the rest of us, you move on to the next step, or the next set of questions...

Rinse, lather and repeat!

1167  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: OK, what's the problem here? on: February 07, 2009, 03:28:01
I agree with dbmathis...practice, practice, practice. You have a lot of 'data collection' to do before things start making sense or can be organised in a workable fashion. We are all slightly different in what works as OBE triggers and positive, observable signposts along the way versus what are, for us individually, dead ends ( no pun necessarily intended ).

Personally, I spent the last twenty plus years experiencing just what you describe, and honestly, getting probably nowhere. That's not to say that possibly tomorrow, you could find a workable exit technique from where you are currently. Again, we're all different.

Everything you describe, I experienced as well...what I came to realise, at least for me, was that I was still not relaxed or deep enough. My conscious mind was still too much in control.

What finally worked was the Wake Back To Bed method (WBTB), where you sleep normally for 3 to 5 hours, wake up for half an hour or so, then attempt a meditation/OBE exercise---your physical body is sufficiently rested that it won't drag your consciousness deep down into sleep but it can easily return to a very relaxed state; your mind being rested but not such that it demands center stage and overpowering the process.

Additionally, there is discussion of the MindAwakeBodyAsleep condition, necessary for projection. I always thought of this as a highly relaxed state which I believed I was achieving in my evening attempts...well I wasn't even close! Early one morning, doing the WBTB method, I relaxed for 20 minutes or so...and then realised someone was snoring...and it was me!! For the first time, I realised my body was comfortably asleep and my mind was still clicking along...what an epiphany! Maybe all my previous meditations had served to get me here, but in retrospect I had never really been close to this! And that's just one springboard to the Great Beyond.

So that's a condition I would suggest aiming for.

Finally, I would suggest spending literally ten or twenty hours researching the archives here on AP. Go back to page 313 on this section and start reading forward anything involving Frank, Adrian, tvos, Ginny, Selski, CFTraveler and other veteran posters and you'll find most of your questions answered, and multiple new questions raised. The information here is invaluable, you just have to invest your time.

Start with the Frank Kepple Phasing Resource

Best of luck and see you out there.

1168  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Dream self projecting on: February 04, 2009, 04:57:26
Sounds like decent progress owl,

the 'heart pounding, expanding' feeling is normal. This is likely your 'energy body' starting to wake up and notice itself. The key is to learn to relax, not get excited and let the process unfold on its own. Getting excited and spoiling the whole thing is perfectly reasonable the first several times.  You may find that several hours of sleep is necessary to allow yourself enough relaxation/recuperation to successfully exit, but what you describe is very normal. Keep at it.

Also, keep in mind that different adjustments are taking place at different levels within your mind/psyche/soul...that is, that you are coming to grips with the whole concept of OBE. Your second paragraph indicates to me that your subconscious? is toying with the idea of different OBE perspectives...sort of practicing. What's it like this way? What would it be like that way?

This is tricky stuff and not necessarily learned in a week or two, it can take years. On very subliminal levels your mind/subconscious/soul has to recalibrate to accept this. It's not always apparent.

Then one day it just seems to happen, as if by accident, easier than you thought; maybe not as complete or quite as you expected, but a start nonetheless.

Keep trying, you're close. Good job!


1169  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: struggling with projection! on: December 30, 2008, 03:29:42
wow, you guys bring up a few issues here,

that sounds like a great early morning first attempt. It appears that you projected your double, but didn't transfer your awareness to it sufficiently to go with it. Then, when it returned, your physical memories superceded or 'overwrote' its memories. It 'felt' like something happened, but you didn't have any memory of it, right? That's okay, still a good start. Nobody said this is easy, otherwise everybody would already be doing it!  Keep up with the early morning attempts, after 5 or 6 hours of sleep. Set a simple goal, like just standing in your room, or standing outside your house, or seeing a playing card you left on the kitchen table. Keep it simple; we're like two year olds when we start doing this.

Keep trying for a couple weeks and if you get frustrated, then take a break for a week or two; sometimes our 'inner self' needs time to decompress or absorb what we've learned. You might be surprised that something unexpected happens in the meantime. Then keep on...

sounds like pretty good exit sensations to me, you're getting closer. Ah yes, the Fear Layer. We all have it to varying degrees. Some of it is no doubt enculturation and belief system, some is simply survival mode. It can be trickier than we think. You can accept the idea of OBE on an intellectual level, but still have to deal with the fear on a deeper level.

With continued practice, you will pass beyond it. Affirmations can help as well. Just keep on...

I need more info...we all wander. And wonder! Get more detuned! Try the early morning method.

don't worry about your eyes, just go with the flow. Whatever 'flow' presents itself. It's different in so many ways; just dive in a few times without 'looking'!

Best to all,

1170  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: How is this possible? on: December 19, 2008, 01:48:44
Mister Astral,

It's like trying anything new for the first time, few of us do it perfectly. Sometimes you will find it hard to move, navigate, see clearly, hear, communicate, think straight...with repeated experiences, you will hopefully see a progression of ability. Don't be frustrated by the slowness of it or seeming setbacks, which may happen from time to time.

IMO, it has a lot to do with 'energy level' and 'intention'; being somewhat serious about those two areas has a lot to do with the results. By example, if you attempt an exit when you're really tired or bored and with no particular 'goal' in mind, then don't expect anything other than, at best, an uncontrolled, awkward, clunky experience...which leaves you with a lot of questions about quality and control of the experience.

Low energy has left me feeling like a deep sea diver, clomping along the floor in heavy, lead boots.

Energy, intention, & other conditions have left me with varying levels of astral awareness. Sometimes I see through a fog, sometimes it's like looking through a layer or two of bandage gauze ( someone else's description but it's totally accurate ), sometimes I see clearly but just feel 'stupid', 'low IQ', sometimes I see SuperClear and SuperIntelligent. Or at least I think so,LOL.

It takes time and repeated practice.

KI Aura,

Sorry to hear about your difficulties projecting now that you're an 'old guy'. grin I suffered pretty much the same thing, tho' I was only an accidental projector when I was a teen. It seems that the 'programming' we had in our younger days is covered over by time, disuse, distraction, stress, enculturation...physical LIFE in other words. Nothing wrong with that, just that we have to learn to incorporate/integrate the two. Part of the whole 'learning/spiritual process' right?

My recent improvement has come from early morning attempts, after about 5,6,7 hours of sleep; the WBTB method.  All the afternoon and evening meditation stuff got me close, but just never close enough. Early morning...just opened up the world.

Happy travels!

1171  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: How is this possible? on: December 17, 2008, 04:44:47
Sounds like a great start! I wish I had this kind of resource to refer to when this stuff happened 30 years ago when I was 15.

Interpretations and conclusions are relative to your own level of understanding/evolution, so don't get too bothered when questions remain. We ALL still have questions. The details/nuances still sometimes remain unanswered.

Vibrations early on, and even years later, can be noisy, flashy and violent. Wild, isn't it? Just stay calm.

Energy body turned around on exit or reentry, yeah, that too. On exit, that can take you in completely unexpected directions as well. It's not as simple as first thought.

Don't be distracted by the noise and turbulence; stay calm and go with the flow. We all chicken out the first few times, it goes with the territory.

Weird? ... yes, definitely weird! And mind-expanding!

Have fun!

1172  Astral Chat / Welcome to Members Introductions! / Re: Hello to all.. on: December 16, 2008, 04:12:09
It comes and goes in waves, no? Time to wake up and re-invigorate that energy body, KI A! Let's do some astral pushups! grin

All the best...astral and otherwise!

1173  Astral Chat / Welcome to Members Introductions! / Re: Hello Intro on: December 16, 2008, 03:24:33

thanks for the welcome. Yeah, Frank's posts deserve a Pulitzer for his advancement of our knowledge on this subject. I've spent maybe a hundred hours on his stuff. Hard to add anything other than confirmation of some of what's already been said. Same for yourself, Tisha, MJ, Ginny, Upstream, Adrian, tvos, CFT and others...many others.

KI Aura,

thanks for the Hello! Yeah, there's a lifetime of studying here already. I look forward to your contributions and sharing. Let's see how much further we can take it before the game runs out!

1174  Astral Chat / Welcome to Members Introductions! / Hello Intro on: December 12, 2008, 03:19:46
Hi to everyone,

looking forward to sharing thoughts and ideas on a fascinating and apparently infinite topic! What a great resource we are provided here. Hundreds of hours of archives to sift through...thanks to all the contributors.

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