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126  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Problems in the School System on: August 20, 2003, 02:06:27
quote:
Originally posted by no_leaf_clover

quote:
I would just like to point out for every Einstein or Bill Gates there are thousands of others who drop out and find they cant get a decent job or advance in any field.


Well, I'd say those Einsteins, Gates and Edisons would have sense enough to recognize their potential and not end up working at McDonalds.



What?  yes Einstein Gates and Edison realized their potential.  Thats why we know their name.  Theres nothing to support the idea that people who realize their potential (know they're intelligent) end up making it.  You're looking at ones that did not many who just KNEW they could have been something.

I just think its a little overused and not thought out when people use them as an example as if its a good reason to drop out.  They are very rare.. but hey if you know you're in that crowd drop out of highschool right now.

I think you see it from a different perspective when you get older.  I remember thinking at your age it didnt matter.  After all bill gates did it.  Until you get out into the real world.  There are always exceptions, but there are also always trends and rules.  If you only look at exceptions you might end up disappointed.
127  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Lucid Dreaming & Sexual Activity on: August 19, 2003, 20:07:33
quote:
Originally posted by bennypr2002

Do LD's come natural to you, or do you keep a dream journal, and are you useing any specific sources or techniques. I know i am useing "Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming" which is a great book. I have not even comepleted 1/10 of what this book says to do and i have already started Lucid Dreaming. Any and all suggestions to haveing lucid dreams last longer are welcome.

-Benny



Ive had them naturally since I was a kid, but I am trying to make myself keep a dream journal to remember more. I still have a problem remembering many of them.. I believe I probably have at least 3 times as many as I remember.

The only actual technique I have tried is looking at my hands every now and then when I become lucid.  I read it in a book a while back then tried it every so often.  The best technique though is to learn to control your thoughts and keep your emotions low.  You can actually learn this by practicing clearing your mind.  LIke you do when trying to project.  If you do that in the Astral you'll have more control over the dream.  It actualy will take you to the RTZ most likely since the dream scene will strip away.

In the meantime looking at your hands when it starts fading might work.

good luck
128  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Knowledge from Dreams on: August 19, 2003, 20:01:48
I read in one of Monroe's books that he attended certain schools which would give knowlege, but he didnt remember them.  Later on as he got older he went to the place and it looked familiar, it was then a guide or someone like that told him he had gone there nightly back in the day but he just wasn't really allowed to remember.

I personally think most of the knowlege you gain in those situations wont ever be remembered.  I mean the ones that are already forgotten.. Im sre there is a way to remember new ones.  However, I think they might add to a certain "abstract understanding".  It might be where you understand the nature of certain things, but you just cant explain it with facts or the "I read this somewhere" type of explanation for knowing.

You might want to ask timeless about this because I believe she has had experiences with schools in the Astral.
129  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Problems in the School System on: August 19, 2003, 19:40:47
I would just like to point out for every Einstein or Bill Gates there are thousands of others who drop out and find they cant get a decent job or advance in any field.

Things get better as you go on to higher education.  I didnt care much for school and thought it wasn't very challenging.. plus my school was a pretty poor one.  But I really enjoyed the freedom of college and unfortuntely the "real world" and the working situation isn't much better.  Just tough it out it really will be over before you know it.  





130  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / John Edward! Fraud or Not? Post opinion! on: August 19, 2003, 18:11:16
quote:
You take things too literally  I comment on what I see and believe, not to "set formula".


I thought about it and I realized that because of the fact you're the Admin here I often take your posts as coming from some "authority".  Which really shouldnt be the case, since it isnt really fair to you.  

I came off more harsh than I intended partly due to some BS at work.. which always seems to carry over when I log on here. I apologize for that.

I would like to add the tickets are given at random and people dont applaud or ooh and aah on cue.  I really suggest people watch the show.. It isnt what I expected because after seeing a few people who "talk to the dead" I refused to watch it.  Then to please my g/f I finally sat down to see it and he really goes out of his way to not talk about jewelry or let people "make things fit".  Often people will say "thats me.. you're talking about me" and he'll say "no I'm not..".  Where as many others are so grateful someone validateswhat they're saying they let whomever own it.

I had to think back on my view of people who do what he does to realize I felt the same way.  Like I said he's very aware of the debunking sites and he always clarifies "you already told me his name so.. or nw I know what she died of" if they blurt it out.  He is very careful not to cheat.  IN fact he shows what a person might do if the cold read at times because hes all for debunking frauds.  He'll tell the audience not to give ANY additional information.

Anyway, if people watch and have real gripes with how he reads thats one thing.  But to just assume he does these tricks he purposely exposes and stays away from really isnt right.

take care
131  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / New Age - The new religion on: August 19, 2003, 16:37:03
Another issue I see with the dogmatic "do's and don'ts" of New ageism is they're based on "Masters" who have been recognized as enlightened people.  Like you said, timeless, some people look at their lives and feel they need to mimic their habits and ways of acting in order to be advanced.  I really like the idea there are many roads to enlightenment, and we dont fully understand what it is like to be "enlightened".

If a person comes into this world and carries out their "task".. maybe they touch a lot of lives arent they doing exactly what theyre supposed to be doing?  What if a person is enlightened but their role is meant to be a different one than that of spiritual teacher?  

What Im trying to say is we only get our examples and New Agers only get their examples from people who wrote books and/or chose the role of teacher.  But couldnt they only have become examples because we already have a set image of what it is to be enlightened?  So since they fit the image they sort of set the rules.. and anyone who had weird quirks or ideas such as crowley kinda set the "don'ts". Since they dont fit the perception (rules) of what it is to be enlightened?

So if they chose not to eat meat its assumed an enlightened person must not eat meat.  If they lived a poor humble life then you must not have much money. etc..

To me it seems plausable there were very "advanced" people out there who did exactly what they were supposed to do.. only their role wasn't teacher.  So there really are many paths.. we just follow those of the people who's path happened to be teacher.  Maybe they did have money. etc

Does it follow a person who is "advanced" does have the role to teach others?  This is the question I am trying to figure out.  Or do they only get recognized as being advanced BECAUSE they are teachers and get their names out there.

This isnt a theory of any type just a random thought.

132  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Lucid Dreaming & Sexual Activity on: August 19, 2003, 15:00:27
I sort of disagree with what most people have said.

Ive had countless Lucid Dreams.. my early ones when I was pre teen and teenage I had the same problem you're having.  I'd get so excited I'd wake up.  I believe it is due to excitement in and of itself and not being able to control that excitement.  People have similiar problems when they first become lucid.  The excitement of becoming lucid enough wakes them up.

Over time you learn to control your emotions more which leads to way longer lucid dreams.  I remember I would rush through whatever I was doing just wanting to get it done before I woke up.  Then of course I'd wake up.  Once you learn to pace yourself and your excitement you'll find you can do whatever in your LD's without waking up.

By that time you might not chose to have sexual encounters as much anyway.  But Maybe you will.. then you can enjoy them a little more.
133  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Falling asleep! on: August 19, 2003, 14:52:20
quote:
Originally posted by beavis


projection onto earth or somewhere close but farther into astral



What??

I dont get that definition.. it doesnt seem to make sense at all.
134  Magic / Welcome to Magic! / There's no such thing as magic... on: August 18, 2003, 23:38:32
quote:
Originally posted by Adrian


I would suggest the "ignorance" referred to is ignorance of the working of the Universe making perfectly natural phenomena seem like Magic or miracles. Everything is subject to the laws of causality, corresponce and other Universal laws. Most people judge everything in terms of the five physical senses and what they believe to be reality such that an effect brought about by someone who understands and works with Universal laws as a result of a corresponding cause seems paranormal.

With best regards,

Adrian.






ahhh thanks.  I misunderstood his point altogether.  That does make more sense.
135  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / John Edward! Fraud or Not? Post opinion! on: August 18, 2003, 19:03:01


One possible criticism:  I came back after I said I wouldnt.  
Judgemental on many things is another.    


[/quote]
way ahead of ya.
136  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / I admit it, I'm a GAMER,..are you? on: August 18, 2003, 18:23:10
Silent Hill 2 is a really cool game.  I liked the simpsons road rage too.  

I dont play much but we live with another couple that has an X box.  There are some cool games out there.
137  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Was Jesus really the Messiah? on: August 18, 2003, 17:47:30
quote:
Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior







This knowledge (or these beliefs, depending on how you look at it) of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (the Mormons) is why nearly every other Christian organization (ESPECIALLY "born agains") hate and revile against us. They think we are a cult and are blasphemous to believe these things, which is really disheartening because we preach against no other church and, in fact, the LDS church often dedicates funds to help other religions and groups.





Well to be honest Im sure this is a large part of why they feel that way.  But the fact your religion accepts having many wives and doesnt really believe in that silly "age of consent" thing.  I think may add to those accusations.  But Im no reborn.. so cant speak for them.
138  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / New Age - The new religion on: August 18, 2003, 17:36:46
It will be a beautiful and glorious day for mankind when dogmatic religion will be switched over to dogmatic new ageism.

139  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / John Edward! Fraud or Not? Post opinion! on: August 18, 2003, 15:19:50
yeah.. group hug

quote:
Originally posted by clandestino

goingslow, it looks like you're from the "how can you possibly know anything about it, you've never done it" school of thought.

regards,Mark



Id never suggest you have to become a medium before you call some medium a fraud.  It just seems right to watch a person's work before you call them a fraud with 99.9 degree of certainty.  Maybe thats unrealistic.

I do believe if you're prepared to give criticism be prepared to receive it.  I wouldnt take offense by anything after I criticized someone else.  But it goes all ways.

Just like Lasher and nick have their comments.  Its all part of puting criticism out there and is fair (in my mind).  

If there's truth in them then Im glad they told me.  

One possible criticism:  I came back after I said I wouldnt.  
Judgemental on many things is another.    

Best thing you can do is look at yourself.. before but especially after you look at someone else.


140  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Was Jesus really the Messiah? on: August 18, 2003, 13:50:36
I dont claim to know what Jesus was or wasn't.. but he has to be the most fascinating person in history.  No one has changed history the way he has.. no one has had a bigger effect on this world.

I think he was something special.  The son of god.. Dont know.  And he's not responsible for a lot of the BS that comes after him.  His teachings alone would be worth listening to.
141  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / New Age - The new religion on: August 18, 2003, 13:32:39
quote:
Originally posted by timeless

Goingslow, as usual got me thinking.  

New Age ideas started out as a fresh look at old concepts.  These New Age ideas formulated itself into a philosophy and now I feel they are starting to structure and harden themselves into a religion.  

What are your thoughts on this?

My thoughts are that:
(1) Religions have a lot of rituals and rules.  
(2) Rules are like wallpaper or pretty clothing.  
(3) True spirituality is an individual truth that grows with beauty inside and spills out.  I do not see it as rules which followed constrict and mold us into what someone elses image is of God like nature.
(4) Rules have a small place (what we eat, the music we listen to, the clothes we wear etc.) but I see them as fine adjustments on a microscope.  You can have a lot of fine adjusting rules and what is under the microscope will still look fuzzy. Coarse adjustments on self (from within) usually bring greater clarity.
(5) To me New Age philosophy is a large pool of ideas to help us learn about and clearly see ourselves.  It would be sad if it just turned into another religion.

Regards,
timeless



I think you're really onto something here.

Thanks for this post timeless.
142  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / John Edward! Fraud or Not? Post opinion! on: August 18, 2003, 13:28:28
quote:
Originally posted by clandestino

Having never seen John Edwards before, I can only say with 99.9% certainty that he is a fraud.



Sorry thats all your post I read.

Some of this stuff is too funny.
Having never seen his show I can say how he does it.  He sits at the front of the stage yelling.  I have someone here who's name starts with an A.  An A and they gave a watch to someone in the audience.

One more thing what I was arguing here wasn't against anyone who has WATCHED him and even knows his name is Edward not Edwards and thinks he's a fraud.  Thats your perogative.  Its the ones whove never watched and who just know because.. well they just know.

Or the assumption which always comes up that if you're doing what he's doing you cant be real because.

1. Psychics who can do this thing are spiritually aware.

2.  Spiritually aware people dont profit off their talents even if they're getting the message across to a million more people.  They stay low key with small followings.  Its like when youre favorite band gets famous.  Sell out!

3.  You are not spiritually aware thus cant be psychic and real BECAUSE of the fact you're not a struggling psychic.  

The keys to figuring out another's spirituality.  Hmmm I dont think a book like that would sell millions.  You might be safe (to no one in particular [Cool]
143  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / John Edward! Fraud or Not? Post opinion! on: August 18, 2003, 13:11:18
quote:
Originally posted by Tayesin


Spiritual gifts are there to serve others, why else would we have them?  To serve ourselves?  If service to self and self-agrandisement were the primary goals to our incarnating here then I would have no problem with John becoming a Multi-Millionaire from what he does.  But, that is not the driving force behind incarnation is it??  





What do you care what someone else uses their gifts for?  Your path should be everyone elses?  Its a value judgement based on nothing but new age books which state its wrong to make money in this world.  That is unless you do psychic stuff as a hobby and are a CEO or engineer on the side.

Im staying off this topic now.  This degree of judgement on a person's spirituality kinda disgusts me and is an old topic not specific to John Edward.

Its based on new age BS which says everyone has to be the same.  A person struggling 9-5 making housecalls doing psychic work.  Cracks me up how a group of people who claim to "think outside the box" are so tied into New age philosophies on what a person should or shouldnt do to show their spiritual awareness.

144  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / John Edward! Fraud or Not? Post opinion! on: August 18, 2003, 13:03:59
LOL Adrian you really do crack me up.

So the break down is how much they make off their  books.  Here's a news flash JE makes most of his money off his books.  But he might get a better deal than RB.. you're right.. when you break down the percentages.

So John edward doesn't benefit humanity and he's not struggling just to feed his kids.  Apparently you didnt read the part where the tickets to see his television show are free and the money he receives from that are from the network.

Tell me Adrian, how many lives to I have left?  

almost every post you make has a "who is higher" feel to it.  It amazes me you dont see this.  

Again the Seminar.. free?  When does the importance of the books stop and the spirituality end.

In a way I envy you.  It would be kinda nice to sit around with these set formulas.  A book that benefits humanity. ahh spiritually aware and advanced.  You get offered a TV show .. obviously not spiritually aware.  That you broke it down to exactly how much profit they make off of a book and equate that to spiritual awareness really went above the call of duty.

Good job!
145  Magic / Welcome to Magic! / There's no such thing as magic... on: August 18, 2003, 04:37:19
well maybe there isnt magic but there is no magic only ignorance?  I dont get it.  Then its okay to call ignorance magic?  Thats kinda a weird thing to say.

I mean if you said only coincidence.  Or only wishful thinking.  but ignorance?
146  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / John Edward! Fraud or Not? Post opinion! on: August 18, 2003, 04:12:13
One last post then bedtime for me.  Just worked a few very long days.

Timeless,

I understood your post.. I think.  And thank you for the compliment at least I know part of that was one.  [Wink].

I like that phrase... "spiritual materialism" and I agree with what you said.

hope things are going well.
147  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / John Edward! Fraud or Not? Post opinion! on: August 18, 2003, 04:02:32
quote:
Originally posted by Adrian

Greetings Goingslow,

quote:
Originally posted by goingslow
One thing I find fascinating about you adrian is your ability to tell everyone who is and who isn't spiritually aware.  what exactly are the prerequisites not for being spiritually aware yourself but to judge exactly how advanced another person is.

Your posts are filled with judgements on other people's spirituality.  Ever notice that?



I would never make judgements specifically on who is and who isn't Spiritually aware, and if you can produce the links to posts where you think I have done this I would like to see them. It most certainly is not my intention I assure you.

To correct your observation on the context of this post, I was not judging whether John Edward or anyone else is Spiritually aware or not - of course I do not know - I was rather saying, if you read my post again, that genuine psychics who are in contact with people and other beings in the Astral should be spiritually  aware almost by definition.

I also said that I do not know whether John Edward is genuine or not, but I am sure that many so called psychics who perform before audiences for money, preying on bereaved people are not genuine.

And of course John Edward is being paid! How much do you think the TV company is paying him?

With best regards,

Adrian.




 

You may not say much directly but you hint and say a lot by beating around the bush.  I might take you up on the links thing if im bored but a few things come to mind.  You cant eat meat to spiritually advance,  Crowley wasn't a spiritually advanced man.. I mean look at him.  But I prob wont take the time out to link to these things.  If you dont think its something you do then its not a problem right?

Anyway this time your comment was "Genuinely Spiritually aware people do not usually become paid stage performers before large, often TV audiences. "

How did I misinterpret this?  You said spiritually aware people dont become paid stage performers.  ..tv audiences etc.  He does this..therefore he must not be spiritually aware?  I must have read too much into it.

you said he charges the audience.  Do you know how television shows work?  Do you know they make money off the commercials if your show is popular?  big money?  Sooo a spiritually advanced person would say "please no I cant accept.  CBS or NBC you keep my share.  Give me a break.

Im not sure if a lot of this is rooted in jealousy or what but what gives someone the right to say because a person does well in this world they must be a fraud.  What makes psychic gifts so much "higher" than an athletic gift.  If someone was given the gift of mathematical genius no one judges them for making money.  Musical gifts?

Its equating something we dont understand with something divine and judging people for doing well in this world.

I really think unless people here are as gifted.. with the chance to make money doing something than our everyday jobs which Im sure we all love and chose to do.  Then we decline the money because it just isnt spiritual we have no room to talk.

If Robert Bruce suddenly had 3 million fans and made a million bucks would he then have to decline it to be spiritual.  If they offered him a tv show where he talks about OBE would he then have to not accept profits and instead tell the networks who are making money " I cant accept".

Give me a break.  I see a lot of judging based on an opportunity not one person here would pass up.  To do this stuff for a living and a good one.  Is it that much more noble to make money sitting in an office making cash for your boss? Why?
148  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / John Edward! Fraud or Not? Post opinion! on: August 18, 2003, 03:56:32
quote:
Originally posted by Tayesin


Hi All.

.

Personally, I do not understand why he charges so much for a reading and I wonderif he uses any of his massive income to do good works in the world. While in Australia he was charging $85 to sit in the audience and $9,500 for a one on one reading !!!!  To me that is way too excessive.



Love always.[Smiley]



either you're lying or misinformed.  His philosophy is he wouldnt charge more than he'd pay for a private reading.  In america he charges about 200 bucks.  I seriously doubt suddenly in australia its about ten grand.

ahh actually I edited this because I know what you're talking about.  If you go to certain sites (his site to be exact warns : DONT BUY TICKETS OFF OF EBAY). they will warn you about people who SCALP tickets to his show.  On ebay tickets have gone for 10 grand profiting off people who are desperate to hear from loved ones.  He doesn't make money off this.  Im not sure you know how this works but a person buys tickets to the show.  Its sold out.. they go on ebay or somewhere else selling his tickets for an outrageous amount.

I think you should be careful before you say he's selling it at that amount when it really isnt true.  You cant be that gullible.  There is a big difference.
149  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / John Edward! Fraud or Not? Post opinion! on: August 16, 2003, 23:46:30
BTW on his television show he doesn't charge money so he isn't doing it in front of a group for money.

He does do seminars which cost money.  I forgot.. the seminar RB is doing.. free?

Its so easy to point the finger at other people and their lack of spirituality.  I thought these talents were natural.  What Im a little cautious of is people who always equate these supposedly natural talents with being a divine person.  Flawless and spiritual. where's the practice in all this?  

150  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / John Edward! Fraud or Not? Post opinion! on: August 16, 2003, 23:38:32
quote:
Originally posted by Adrian

Greetings Nay,

quote:
Originally posted by Nay

I am actually quite surprised that more ppl do not believe that JE can speak to the dead...isn't that what Robert Bruce, Robert Monroe and even our beloved Ginny, do?  It is just in another form is all.  


with people in the Astral. The main difference is that most of those I know would never, ever perform before an audience for money, and in fact most of them do not even charge any money - they do it as a service to humanity just as healers and others do.

People with genuine psychic abilities should also be Spiritually aware; almost by definition. Genuinely Spiritually aware people do not usually become paid stage performers before large, often TV audiences. They are rather usually very humble people who selflessly offer the benefit of their abilities to people in need without charge.

With best regards,

Adrian.




One thing I find fascinating about you adrian is your ability to tell everyone who is and who isn't spiritually aware.  what exactly are the prerequisites not for being spiritually aware yourself but to judge exactly how advanced another person is.

They must do a different job as their main one and use their psychic abilities to help and make no money.  I paid a good amount for Astral Dynamics.  But of course I dont judge by those standards.

Your posts are filled with judgements on other people's spirituality.  Ever notice that?
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