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1026  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / More Focus 10... on: October 26, 2005, 17:13:32
Regarding F12, it generally requires effort to push from F10 to F12. At first it can be hard to notice the difference. For me F12 feels much more 'open and expanded' and there seems to be a lot of visualisation floating about. It is also possible to experience F12 whilst still maintaining some awareness of body. During Gateway experiences at the monroe institute, experiencers regularly speak to people monitoring them during their experience.
1027  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: More Focus 10... on: October 26, 2005, 17:09:36
Quote from: hotshotrobot

1. It is said that: 'Focus 10 is a definite shift of awareness.'

Q's:
i. Should a wait and expect this shift?
ii. Will I definitely feel it?

 
What do you do in your attempt to reach focus 10? From personal experience, the shift to focus 10 becomes more noticeable with experience. It's as simple as that. Some of these states only come after a lot of regular practice over time. When I enter focus 10, there is a definate shift in consciousness. Even a light focus 10 where I still feel my body, the shift is very noticeable. One noticeable effect of F10 is an attention of the immediate, its like focus is drawn in, and the external environment is either dimmed down, or ignored. Only the immediate is relevant. it's more then that, theres a quality of mind to it, but thats as much as I can convey in words.
 I think waiting for the shift is being too laid back. It is like meditation in a way, it requires relaxed focused awarness. To enter F10 I have to make some effort (I used a trigger).

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2. Usually when I'm relaxing, I can get my body to go mostly numb. I then experience two problems:
a. I can't stop being excited (i.e. my heart beats fast and feels tense).
b. I calm down by focusing on something other than my body and goals, in which case I tend to lose lucidity.



Both of the above are something which experience alone will remedy. I'e been through both, and now achieve very deep states of F10 easily. The best advice I can give is for you to get gateway series 1, and practice the F10 exercises regulalry for as long as possible. These CDs drive brainwaves to the F10 state, and experience will deepen that state so you can appreciate its subtlies. For example. I've used F10 exercises for around 4-5 years, and my state of F10 is much stronger now than it was even 1 year ago.

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Q's:
i. Does my being excited prevent me from entering a full Focus 10?
ii. What is a good way to hold lucidity while also avoiding thoughts of my goals and body?


Being excited can stop a good F10 state from being achieved due to adrenaline and other chemicals exciting the body. (Even chemicals like caffine should be avoided prior to attempting F10 states).
 As to your second question, meditation is a great tool to teach one to clear the mind. I would advise getting a good book, such as Eric Harrisons: Teach yourself to meditate, as there is a lot of falsehoods written about meditation on the net. Also, as I said above, the gate way series 1 CD contains tools to stop the mind ruining a F10 attempot, such as the energy conversion box tool (a creative visualisation which I still make extensive use of).
1028  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Phasing VS your regular AP-which of two immerses a person on: October 26, 2005, 16:45:30
Phasing will lead to exactly the same level of immersion as any tradition technique. To use a clichéd analogy: you can eat a cake many ways; the result is still an eaten cake.
Most [all] traditional techniques actually are phasing, what separates them is that phasing uses visualisation to distract from the physical and ‘phase’ along the spectrum of consciousness, whereas traditional techniques use visualisation in attempt to actually leave ones body. When one leaves the body in a traditional sense, they have really just phased into the astral. The Real-Time zone is actually a near mirror image of ‘reality’ and not actual reality itself (some might still disagree with this though).

 So I guess phasing is acceptance of moving along the conscious spectrum, where traditional techniques believe one is moving out of body (but they are still actually phasing).
1029  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Vibration Brain Activity Testing - Stephen Laberge on: October 23, 2005, 01:35:01
Something I would be very interested to see is a measurement of blood DMT levels before, during and after vibrations and a successful projection. The similarities between DMT effects and the OBE state (from the energy sensations to the actual experiences) are remarkable. DMT is one of the most powerful psychedelics known to man, and is also produced naturally in the brain.
1030  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Since it will be awhile before frank writes his book on: October 23, 2005, 01:31:45
One of the first books on AP I read many years ago contained what I can only term as phasing. It was called 'Astral Doorways' by J.H.Brennen. It used a technique which consisted of staring at cards (you need to make them) to create an imprint on the retina, this imprint is then manipulated with visualisation (turning it into a doorway) to allow one to access various levels of the astral. I did have some success with this method. If your minds eye visualisation skills are not great, it also contains a long term training program to improve them (they take effort, but do work).
1031  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Detailed teachings of Reality on: October 03, 2005, 20:25:21
Sorry for the delay in replying, I've been on vacation and have only just got back.

Quote from: pmlonline

First, that seems vague.  I can think of numerous ways to interpret those words into what mystics are saying.  Monroe uses different lingo.  Second, I do not believe Monroe was a liberated being.  But getting past that, I said several things in your quote.  1. When you die, you go to the Etheric plane to heal and prepare for your new astral life.  2. That the astral body eventually dies.  3. Then you pass to the mental realms.  4. The rebirth starts over unless you have liberated yourself.  So do you actually believe your astral body lives for ever?  If so then you agree with #2.  Do you believe there is a place that people go after they die for rest and healing?  If so then you agree with #1.  What part do you disagree with?  You said Monroe believes earth was created by some beings.  The mystics I follow say the same thing.  You said that Monroe believes these beings farm a form of energy produced through negative conditions.  That really sounds like a very brief statement by Monroe that I am sure if you were to ask him to elaborate on that you would be surprised what he would say.  Yet again, I know Monroe did not reach the level of spiritual development that I require in a teacher.  That's just my own personal requirement.


 Whether Monroe was a liberated being or not is purely personal opinion. But he does meet your criteria of being an advanced being, that is he could project at will, and not only that, he also had full contact with his 'I-There' (higher self) in any focus state of consciousness. He could phase into that astral within moments towards the end of his life on Earth. The statement about the beings farming energy was actually a central part of monroes new belief systems, he termed the energy 'loosh' and wrote a full chapter on the mechanism of Earth Life system and how it was created and evolved to produce this energy. Also, this concept was important to him as it was a shock revelation that 'the God of his childhood was dead' i.e. he saw what the Earth life system was and the God of his childhood had not created it, and did not watch lovingly over it, Earth was simply a construct to produce a refined energy form.
 I believe you go into what I term the astral when you die, I also believe that one will experience their belief of death made manifest. That is a person will find themselves in a belief construct (the belief system territories) that matches what they truly think exists in the afterlife. It could be pearly gates, or one of the hells or heavens of other religions. Regarding energy bodies, I am not committing myself to any ideology on them. I have a feeling that the whole energy body system might simply be a deeply ingrained belief system, and if it is, I don't want to get bogged down within it. Further exploration will tell.
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Monroe stated indirectly that suicide was not a terrible act and no bad action would follow because of it.

You might want to show a direct quote of Monroe saying that.  I do not think Monroe would say such a terrible thing.

 Here is a direct quote:

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If I knew with no trace of doubt what I would be and do after I died, it would change me radically. I could live my physical life to the fullest, without the shadow lurking behind every second, the shadow that says one wrong move and your time is up! If we knew that each of us had the option to depart when we were certain our physical future held no more light for us, how our lives would be transformed! If we had the assurance that, no matter what happens, we can continue our love bonding beyond the Earth Life System and time-space - if we were certain that when a loved one departs we would know beyond doubt where we can find him or her - what a wonderful freedom we would have!


Robert A. Monroe - Ultimate Journey, Chapter 16, page 230.

I think this idea is mentioned earlier in this series of books too, but I haven't had time to search through them yet.

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Well that totally disagrees with any scientific view of the universe. You state science yet you must ignore it's fundamental principles. Evolution is pure mindless mutation.

The universe is guided by higher beings.  Please, lets not even think that modern material scientists have the answers on that.  They can't even see the etheric planes much less the astral and higher realms.


The above statement is moot. Most mystics and religious systems are bogged down with tremendous dogma which makes their view of reality as cloudy as the one currently described by science.

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The healthier mutations survive as they improve on some condition. There is no master plan in evolution, there is no goal. Evolution will continue forever mindlessly.

LOL, well you posed a claim with no backbone so I cannot comment on it.


Backbone or not. I stand by that statement although I will add something to it, I will say evolution has no direction but it seems to tend towards complexity. If evolution has a direction please tell me what you regard this final state of creation to be, and also what will happen at this final state of creation.

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To me the above sounds like a religious belief system and nothing more. I have not seen even an atom of evidence to suggest any of what you write. I have every belief that people who die will find their deities, but my experience would suggest that these deities are no true creator, they are possibly highly advanced thought forms given power and strength by the belief of their followers.

When you learn how to project and see correctly then you will get the answers to your questions.  Refer to my suggested tests.


I have been projecting since earliest childhood and can see very clearly.

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What of the nonhuman life systems, the countless trillions of alien plants whose life and consciousness resembles nothing of our own? My problem with all this is that it is so human centred, its imagery is human, its logic and belief type is human and it encompasses only human knowns. Human existence, logic, ideologies are all just one of countless which exist throughout creation

You say that because you have not studied such teachings.  I have crammed a few ideas into your mind which normally takes years to learn.  There is no way you could possibly conceive a clear picture of what I am trying to tell you.  First, the Archangels cover just our solar system.  Ok?  Other solar systems have Archangels.  It is a process of spiritual evolution.  The Angelic kingdom covers just our planet.  Other planets have their own Angelic kingdom.  One problem that people such as yourself have is getting past the issues and problems that religions have posed on society over the 1000's of years.  That is not my problem.  I can only urge you and others to get past it and seek the truth.  I already have my personal proof.  I proved my obe's were real.  I found my teachers and they do not write and sell books and speculate on trivial questions that you and I are talking about.  They are at a level where such ideas are extremely simple to test and find the truth.  It is not my place to prove anything to you.  Surely you believe there are extraterrestrials that can travel to earth that have technology far beyond ours.  They do not land and prove things to Earth.  Surely you believe there is life after death.  They do not manifest and prove things to Earth.  Perhaps you should ponder why this is so.  I said Earth was a class.  It is not my place or anyone's place to prove anything to you.  All I suggest to everyone here is don't give up on the ideas I mentioned.  Don't give up on the idea that there are super human beings incarnated in physical bodies on Earth right now.  Yes, every group has their own lingo.  Every group has their own interpretation.  Yes, nobody has 100% accurate answers.  Yes, some groups do not even have 50% correct answers.  Consider this.  If an Archangel exists, then do you not think such a being could find more accurate answers then say Monroe or even a Mystic?


 Please don't think that I haven't heard such ideas as these before, I have friends in all disciplines and have heard such ideas and even more outlandish ones in my time. if such ideas do not fit with my experience, I keep them as a store of knowledge, but it would be foolish of me to follow them. If an Archangels exist, logic does not follow that such a being knows more than Monroe or even a Mystic. They might know more of certain areas of the astral, such as I know more about the physical than a child, but that does not equate they are any closer to truth of creation, or are not lost in a complicated belief system. Having more knowledge, or knowing more tricks does not mean one is more advanced. If you have had experience in the astal then you would of seen beings with almost Godlike powers yet who are terribly lost in their own belief systems/kingdoms.
Please note that I do not deny the existence of such beings, their are beings out there which are so alien that people of our human mindset would not even recognise them as sentient, yet they are powerful. I just choose at this moment in time to not commit to belief systems which contain such beings as I'm not sure if such a thing is truly needed.
1032  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Detailed teachings of Reality on: September 20, 2005, 21:18:40
Quote from: Stookie
Monroe obviously wrote his book so the average Joe with no knowledge of these things could understand it. If he started talking about "group consciousness" and "karma" he would scare a lot of people off. He wanted to stay away from the New Age crowd.

His "I-there" was a group consciousness. Why wouldn't it be that his "I-there" was part of a larger group consciousness that consists of all humans? And his "I-there" was/is fulfilling a task of THAT group consciousness? (this could go in circles forever). He also implies that everyone has an "I-there" and similar multiple earth-incarnations.  If that's what everyone's doing, wouldn't that be what Earth is about? Isn't that Karma? On one level it's a personal thing, but on another it's for all of humanity? The microcosm and macrocosm? (seriously, I'm confusing myself).


 He did seem to suggest that his "I-there" was part of a larger group which is waiting for all "I-theres" to find their missing parts. I just think the traditional interpretation of Karma is too loaded to use in regards to I-there finding their knowns and parts. If some of them suddenly decided to go exploring as they couldn't be bothered any more, no negative action would come of it. Perhaps the other I-theres would simply incarnate more to take their place and when the time to 'blast off', as Monroe put it, came, the exploring I-there would come back to take its place.
 The I-theres seem to be explores of self and reality, trying to find their source, they are not compelled by anything other than the desire to grow and explore.
1033  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Detailed teachings of Reality on: September 20, 2005, 21:12:24
Quote from: pmlonline
Quote from: MisterJingo
A few posts back I stated that karma is a self created condition and you said no it is not, it is a law created by a group consciousness. So which is it?

I don't see where I said that.  I believe that I clearly stated that the law of karma was created by the group consciousness as part of the universe.  I also stated that that our actions creates energy patterns and that is Karma.  There is a difference between the actual law and the effect.  For example, in modern science, the electric force is a law of the universe and an particular proton going by an electron is an effect.


In my experience the physical universe is a small part of creation as a whole, or by the universe are you encompassing all of creation? By it's very definition of being a subjective experience, causality cannot be applied to the astral, as it is very possible to break causality in imagination.
Electric force is not a force of the universe it is simply a force that exists between two charged objects. The disparity of force between the two charged objects is the cause, and the migration (propagation) of electrons is the effect. It should be noted that there is a possibility of other universes with differing initial conditions and particle charges which would make it possible that electrons might not flow between charged poles.

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Quote from: MisterJingo
A law by definition is a rule set which is enforced, and as you stated it is a law created by a group consciousness, then you are literally stating that karma is a rule set enforced by a group consciousness. how can an externally created law be an innate internal process?

It is not an externally created law.  Everyone created it, which includes you.  It is an agreement, not an entity or something.  It is something you, your higher and divine self agreed to.


Well I have no experience or knowledge of this and many others haven't. I am not going to take on board unproven belief systems because others insist they are correct. Many people, including Monroe, stated repeatedly that belief is not a known, and never take anything in as a known which has not been personally verified to a high degree.

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Quote from: MisterJingo
Life as we know it on Earth is false. Earth is simply a belief system with no greater importance than an infinite other number of belief systems. if you believe Earth has some great importance then that is an Ego produced belief. "Where I am is important".

That's an odd statement.  I think everyone is important.  I see no ego in that.  Everyone is just as important.


You are misreading my intentions. Everyone is important, but people see "their place" as more important than others. Your repeated instance that actions in our Earth astral location are devastating in a Karmic sense (i.e. death) seems to suggest an exaggerated importance of action in this astral locale over that of others.
 If I decided to create an astral location where people can inhabit forms I generate there, would the intentional ending of one of those forms also carry tremendous karmic debt?

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Quote from: MisterJingo
Death is an impossibility, making someone exit a belief system is not a terrible act, that is what I said. You seem to be caught up in the human concepts of death rather than seeing Earth as a simple astral locale.

I even quoted you.  Here it is again, "The murder of a billion lives means nothing if one truly believes in the astral and the soul surviving death."  We all agree that you go to the Etheric and then the Astral when your physical dies.  If you murder somebody then you will have great karma, period.  It is not your decision to say when a person is to leave the physical plane.


The only reason I mentioned the murder of a billion lives is because you originally brought up such an absurd statement. We are speaking hypothetically here.
 Is Karmic debt only relevant to human beings, or do we accrue Karmic debt when we kill animals? Is that the same amount of debt or less? What if we kill insects? How much debt is that. Also, what if we kill plant life (which is a form of life), do we gain debt for that too? At what form of life do we stop accruing debt for? I am being serious with this question, so please answer it.

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Quote from: MisterJingo
Please tell me how it is possible to truly kill anything? I am not talking about this death construct built into this astral locale.

Death obviously means when a body no longer operates and dissipates into energy.  The physical can die.  Your astral also die.  When you die physically you go to the etheric planes for healing.  There you will be asleep for some time.  Then you pass on to the Astral.  There you will live for a while, say 150 years.  Then you pass on to the mental realms and eventually your higher self will recreate all of your bodies again and the rebirth process starts over UNLESS you have been liberated from the continuous cycle of reincarnation.  Being liberated means that you do not have sufficient karma on the physical plane and therefore you no longer need to reincarnate.


All I can say is that this does not agree with any of my and many other peoples findings. Monroe also didn't have any beliefs which seem remotely similar to this. He stated that Earth was an environment created by some beings to farm a form of energy produced through negative conditions. We curls decided to come and incarnate in beings which are formed here. My experience to date is along the lines of this

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Quote from: MisterJingo
Please answer this question: If I was in the astral and I put my arms around another being and I phased into another astral location with them, is this a terrible deed? THey have simply moved from one location to another.
Well even Monroe stated that he hopes one day humans will see this Earth life system for what it is, so if someone tires of life here, they could end their current physical life with the knowledge death holds no punishment. Are you saying Monroe is wrong here?

IMHO you are really confusing things to the point where it is dangerous for you.  Monroe wanted people to consider death a good thing!  OK?  He never wanted people to think that another being could murder someone and that is a good thing!  It is NOT your right to murder someone's physical or their astral.  Additionally I will tell you straight up that suicide is one of the greatest sins of all because that physical body was created by your higher self, that god part of you.  I am sorry, if you murder someone or commit suicide then that is a sure route to the lowest astral hells.  Again, read you statement, "so if someone tires of life here, they could end their current physical life with the knowledge death holds no punishment."  And also you said, "The murder of a billion lives means nothing if one truly believes in the astral and the soul surviving death."


 Please do not get caught up on the murder issue. You brought up that topic so I replied but you seem to have ignored everything I have said on that issue. I think your attitude regarding suicide is totally irresponsible and fear mongering. Monroe stated indirectly that suicide was not a terrible act and no bad action would follow because of it. Have you actually witnessed anything personally other than words in a book or the words of others which tells you differently?

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Quote from: MisterJingo
The entire of creation is in a constant state of destruction and construction. So creation is bad due to its destructive methods? Death can be seen as destruction, yet it is essential to the continuation of life. I don't really know what you are trying to say here?

I posted on this topic some time ago.  The universe is always in a state of construction in totality.  The universe is always evolving in totality.  Long ago 1/3 of the Angelic kingdom fell.  That is prime example of the way of things.  The point is, most of the Angelic kingdom evolved; i.e., 2/3 evolved and 1/3 fell.  I believe the Universe is God.  I also believe that God in totality is good.  There is an old saying, "In order for the new to come forth, the old must be destroyed."  That is birth pains, also known as growing pains.  Evolution is about change for the good.  Yes you can view life in totality as good.  For any object of any size can view viewed as good / positive or bad / negative.  Again, if you consider all things, then yes it is good, in totality.  If you consider a particular part such as a star exploding, then if the process is destruction then that by itself is not good.  You may frown on that idea, but you must know that there are various levels of good and bad.  For example, the actual physical material that makes up the star is not a highly evolved consciousness relative to you.  If you were to see the higher energies involved in that star explosion you would see there is a highly evolved life form.  On that level it is a new birth and that life form moves on to a great place.  So when considering the all realms then it may be a good thing.  Back to you example of murder.  It is not in the best interest to that life form to end its physical existence.  Your lower left is not spiritually evolved to make such decisions.  It is entirely up to that individual's higher self to decide when it is time to die physically, not yours.  When you murder some or commit suicide, you are not improving that person or yourself spiritually.


 Well that totally disagrees with any scientific view of the universe. You state science yet you must ignore it's fundamental principles. Evolution is pure mindless mutation. The healthier mutations survive as they improve on some condition. There is no master plan in evolution, there is no goal. Evolution will continue forever mindlessly.
Regarding the rest of the above, if you answered my question above, then that should be answered.

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Quote from: MisterJingo
Edit: Where is this kingdom of fallen angels and does it have any relevance outside of those who do not follow Christianity? I would hate to even attempt a guess at how many beliefs and religions exist throughout the entirety of creation, do all the ones which do not have a concept of angel now become void?

As you know, the fallen Angelic Kingdom is not a religion and I hope you do not believe Christians created it.  There are many great beings in creation that are very real consciousness just as you are real.  For example, Lord Christ is not a made up being.  Lord Buddha is not a made up being.  Master Jesus is not a made up being.  At age 33 Master Jesus allowed Lord Christ to manifest for 3 years.  Master Jesus is a being that is part of the human kingdom.  Lord Christ is a being that is part of the Archangel kingdom.  At present, Lord Christ is the most spiritual evolved being of the Archangel kingdom.  Archangels are a little bit beyond our understanding.  They are so spiritually evolved relative you and I that they each are a group consciousness.  That is, they can split their consciousness into thousands of parts.
Billions of years ago, before earth was even created, there was another planet during the moon period.  Moon period is simply a name, a definition that was given to refer to the time when the Angelic kingdom was incarnating.  During the moon period there was an etheric planet.  This was when the Angelic kingdom was incarnating in the flesh.  It was not a physical flesh, but rather Etheric flesh.  The Angelic kingdom never incarnated in a physical body.  The etheric plane was their physical plane.  Then came a period that many have called the great judgment day.  It is an evolutionary jump in the planet and all the life forms that inhabit the planet.  For us it is called the peace period.  During the peace period there are certain requirements.  Now beings that will cause chaos or destruction will be allowed to incarnate during the peace period.  Earths peace period will begin in the mid 2020's.  After that point, highly negative humans will not be allowed to reincarnate on Earth.  After the 1000 years of peace, those beings will be given another chance.  If they continue their present destructive path then they will become the next demons for the Animal kingdom.  One day the Animal kingdom will evolve to a spiritual state where they will have minds and will be at our present level.  For those of the human kingdom that will fall, they will be left behind and will plague the Animal kingdom just as the present fallen Angelic kingdom plagues the human kingdom.
Where are the fallen angels?  They are in the etheric and astral planes.  They fell.  The other 2/3 thirds of the Angelic kingdom evolved spiritually.

These are things that you need to prove for yourself.  The out of body projections is a great place to start.  When you can prove to yourself with out a doubt that nearly 100% of the time you are not creating your own dream / self created world while out of body then you can begin to visit the astral akashic records and eventually the more accurate mental akashic records.  There you can view history for yourself.  You can study history.  You will be able to take classes while out of body.  You may visit the Hall of Records.  I am not asking you to take my word.  My whole point here at astralpulse is to get people to be open for new ideas and to prove it for themselves and to consider that there are beings who have done so that you may learn from and consider their teachings.  There may be 99% fake mystics out there that make money off others.  But I found my proof and know there are real mystics.  For those people who are ready, there will be that mystic who is very much willing to help those help themselves.

Peace,
Paul


 To me the above sounds like a religious belief system and nothing more. I have not seen even an atom of evidence to suggest any of what you write. I have every belief that people who die will find their deities, but my experience would suggest that these deities are no true creator, they are possibly highly advanced thought forms given power and strength by the belief of their followers.
What of the nonhuman life systems, the countless trillions of alien plants whose life and consciousness resembles nothing of our own? My problem with all this is that it is so human centred, its imagery is human, its logic and belief type is human and it encompasses only human knowns. Human existence, logic, ideologies are all just one of countless which exist throughout creation. I cannot deny that you might have seen proof, but that is the nature of the astral, we interpret it through our own belief systems. If you believe in such things, that is what you will find.
1034  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Detailed teachings of Reality on: September 20, 2005, 17:49:55
Quote from: Stookie
<quote>Regarding Monroe believing in Karma. As far as I remember his 'I There' was creating new incarnations to look for the missing basics on Earth. It was even stated by his 'I There' that once they found the basic they would blast off (leave the Earth life system for good).</quote>

It is also stated in that book that if a certain incarnation didn't do what was needed, it was passed over into a new incarnation to accomplish: that's Karma.

My understanding of Karma is that there is a conglomeration of energies that create a whole. We reincarnate as different individuals to go through experiences in the physical world, that aspects of those energies create. The energies obtained or not obtained during a lifetime dictates the energy put into a subsequent incarnation.

I think it's extremely naive to think "I farted in a guys salad in this life, so in my next life I will get my salad farted on". Karma is much more detailed and complicated than that.


The task was passed over into a new incarnation not due to a universal law making it so, but because his "I There" desired it to be. They were looking for information and so kept sending out scouts until they found it.
 The concept of karma as an unalterable universal law which causes us to work off karmic debt before we can progress is what I am arguing against.
1035  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Detailed teachings of Reality on: September 20, 2005, 17:45:54
Quote from: pmlonline
Quote from: MisterJingo
Belief in responsibility for actions does not equal Karma which implies an external entity (note I did not say being) dominating a person and forcing a punishment upon them.

Karma is not an entity or a being.  It is an energy that you create.  The moment you do something then you instantly create an energy pattern.  That energy pattern is now part of you until it is released.  When and how that energy is released is dependent upon many forces in your life.  Punishment?  I am sorry if people think God or the Universe plays sick jokes, but it is by their own doing that it takes place.


 A few posts back I stated that karma is a self created condition and you said no it is not, it is a law created by a group consciousness. So which is it? A law by definition is a rule set which is enforced, and as you stated it is a law created by a group consciousness, then you are literally stating that karma is a rule set enforced by a group consciousness. how can an externally created law be an innate internal process?

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Quote from: MisterJingo
The murder of a billion lives means nothing if one truly believes in the astral and the soul surviving death.

Yikes!!!  I hope the FBI doesn't read your post. wink  IMHO that is a very sad belief system.  You just justified your and anyone's actions to take away lives.  Read your post again PLEASE.  You said it is "means nothing" if the murderer believes in such and such.  A life is one of the most sacred gifts by God.  Your entire lower self (physical, etheric, astral, concrete mind) was created by the God consciousness.  It is not your right to take away your own life much less the lives of others.


 Everything means something, but you misread what I said. Life as we know it on Earth is false. Earth is simply a belief system with no greater importance than an infinite other number of belief systems. if you believe Earth has some great importance then that is an Ego produced belief. "Where I am is important".
 Death is an impossibility, making someone exit a belief system is not a terrible act, that is what I said. You seem to be caught up in the human concepts of death rather than seeing Earth as a simple astral locale.
 Please tell me how it is possible to truely kill anything? I am not talking about this death construct built into this astral locale.
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Quote from: MisterJingo
If I play a game with my children and one of them loses and is 'out', should I be punished for that?

It is not my place to break you away from such thought.  All I can do is restate it over and over.  Again, it is not punishment and it is not an outside thing that does what you call punishment.  It is an energy pattern that the CHILD created, nobody else.  They did it.  It is part of the laws of universal physics.  Science discovered the law a long time ago.  Long ago we were all one-- one group consciousness, everything.  Then we decided to forget and descend into a new creation and so-called separate.  Karma was created so that all individuals could make it back home / the group.  Without the law of cause and effect there would be 100% total chaos.


 Please see above. You have stated multiple times that Karma is a law created by a group consciousness. it is not a fundamental part of LIFE energy constructs. If it exists, it has been placed there by your definition.


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Quote from: MisterJingo
Please note that I am not condoning murder of any sort.

You should probably go back and study your words.


 And so should you as you are presenting two conflicting accounts of what Karma is. You say it is a law created by group consciousness, then you imply it is an innate part of everything.


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Quote from: MisterJingo
Please tell me of a single level where energy does not consume other energy (be that animals eating animals, plants eating nutrients, man eating plants etc) does all this accrue Karmic debt too?

Anything you do is karma.  Move your finger and that is karma.  Karma is simply an energy pattern that you create!  It is your choice if you want to look at it as good or bad.  Haven't you ever heard people say, "That's good karma."  You can view the karma as you like, but I can assure you most sane people will view the removal of a physical life / murder as REALLY BAD Karma.

 
 Please see above about your definitions of Karma.
 Please answer this question: If I was in the astral and I put my arms around another being and I phased into another astral location with them, is this a terrible deed? THey have simply moved from one location to another.
 Well even Monroe stated that he hopes one day humans will see this Earth life system for what it is, so if someone tires of life here, they could end their current physical life with the knowledge death holds no punishment. Are you saying Monroe is wrong here?

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Quote from: MisterJingo
A question for you: It is established that good and evil are relative to the observers belief systems

My definitions:
Good - Construction.
Bad – Destruction.


 The entire of creation is in a constant state of destruction and construction. So creation is bad due to its destructive methods? Death can be seen as destruction, yet it is essential to the continuation of life. I don't really know what you are trying to say here?

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Quote from: MisterJingo
In many ancient societies ritual sacrifice was not only considered good, it was actively sought out by members of that society as an honour, yet, in today's society such a thing would be considered evil. Who chooses the moral values which encompass creation, and have you seen some record of them? If not, then how can you be sure that your definition of this Karma is correct?

Morals?  If you apply a force on an object then it pushes back.  That is inertia.  There are no morals in that.  If you murder someone then you create an equal an opposite energy pattern.  You created that energy and it is yours.  There are infinite ways that energy pattern may be released, but regardless, the amount of energy to be released will always be equal and opposite to your actions.  There are no morals in that.  It is a very simple law and no decisions are need to determine the energy you create because it is always equal and opposite to your actions.  Without it then nobody would need to be responsible for his or her actions.  The Fallen Angelic kingdom hates the law of Karma.  They also have a very similar belief that you pose.  You keep wanting to point to finger at someone, when it reality it is you that created your karma.  It is your energy.  It is a vitally important law.

Peace,
Paul


Please see you definitions of Karma. If viewing murder in an astral model sense, I see it as bad as you are inflicting your desires on a person against their will. I can't see what other effects it would have to an immortal soul? Especially when one considers the physical is not what we are led to believe.

Edit: Where is this kingdom of fallen angels and does it have any relevance outside of those who do not follow Christianity? I would hate to even attempt a guess at how many beliefs and religions exist throughout the entirety of creation, do all the ones which do not have a concept of angel now become void?
1036  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Why Astral Project in the Future? on: September 20, 2005, 12:34:07
Quote from: matb_uk
I have to agree with catmeow on the whole brain scan thing. I don't think they'll ever be able to mimic human consciousness simply be scanning the brain. They may be able to see how the whole thing is built but it won't really tell the how it does what it does. There are people out there who appear to have no discernable brain (See http://www.alternativescience.com/no_brainer.htm) yet they function quite happily. I think theres more to it that just neurons and synapses etc.


I'm not too sure, a form of brain scan called Magnetoencephalography (MEG) can detect the magnetic fields caused by single neurons firing anywhere in the brain. This is allowing scientists to probe consciousness and start building a model of it. For example, a controversial finding of this technique was that when attention occurs in a patient being scanned there appears to be a global sweep of gamma activity. It starts at the front of the head and moves back quite rapidly.  More of these findings are in a book called "When the clock struck zero" by "professor John Taylor". The use of MEG in conjunction with the map of the brain areas and their connections already created is producing a model of consciousness which seems to explain many limitations of ours, such as decreasing mental functioning with age,  why we can only put attention on one thing at a time,  and a lot more that I can't think of right now Tongue
 Admittedly it's a long way off even explaining consciousness, but it seems a promising start.
1037  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Google Print on: September 20, 2005, 03:19:18
I think what is impressive is that it actually searches every word of every book it has indexed, rather than searching on book titles categorised. Watch the results it gives and you will see page numbers next to each find.

From searching the site it also looks that a form of optical character reading is used on scanned documents (the books) during the searches.
1038  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: Problems with AP on: September 20, 2005, 03:03:08
Quote from: The Deer
I've been trying to AP for close to four months now, but to no avail. I've reached (or think I've reached) the Focus 10 state, but I'm having trouble telling, because I don't feel the "vibrations" that I've been reading about, nor have I hear any cracks, pops or fizzles. On rare occasions (twice) I've felt as if my body was "bent" away from the straight position that I began in.

I've tried using many different audio files/programs, but nothing seems to be able to help me get past the "numb body" state. If there are any free audio files that anyone is aware of, I'd appreciate any suggestions.

So now that the background stuff is all out of the way, here are my questions

1. After being in (what i believed to be) mind awake/body asleep state, and i try to exit my body, I just end up still being in the physical. I've tried different exit methods, such as mental/written mantras and the "Rope" technique, but nothings doing. Same deal with opening my "astral eyes". I just open my physical eyes and the state fizzles away Do i need to deepen my state of consciousness or is there a "better" technique that I've missed?


Achieving Focus 10 does not guarantee an OBE. Focus 10 is more a deeply relaxed state where one starts to lose awareness of physical sensory information and starts to become more focused on the internal. I think trying to OBE from this state would be quite difficult. It would be best to deepen it into a light then deep trance state and try from there.

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2. I've read that having the room pitch black is not advisable. I don't mean to say that you should beam a halogen lamp on your bed, but I read that the room should be dimly lit. Any truth to this? I ask because a) I prefer the dark and b) I really get a reaming by the parental units for leaving a light on all night.


 I prefer to have the room pitch black as it is easier to pickup hypnogogic imagery, and less likely to be distracted by external sources of information (including sight). The only benefit I've had of using a dim light when practicing OBE is that the light filtering through the eyelids makes visualising a pure white light a lot easier.

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3. What exactly IS phasing? This has been the only place where I've heard the term used.


Phasing is simply moving ones attention from this point of awarness (the physical) to another point of awarness. In the phasing model, the astral planes are actually another place along the stream of consciousness (which contains all creation). When we phase, we consciously divert our attention away from the physical to another astral location.


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4. My room has lots of electronic equipment in it, but at night it all goes off. Is it possible that all the cables and whatnot cause electric disturbance (Therefore hindering the projection attempt?)


I've noticed no interference from nearby electrical devices in all my years of projection. A problem might occur if you believe they will hinder your OBE practice, as that belief itself might cause the hindrance.

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5. Quite often during meditation, I'll get itches which eventually go away if I ignore em long enough but the killer thing is that if i stay in a trance for about an hour, my legs feel this need to move. I dunno if have RLS or if it's an astral clue that I'm missing. In any case, I don't know what to do when that happens and thinking about it ruins the statement


I have this problem when attempting to OBE, but not when meditating. Sometimes I have a tremendous need to move my body which eventually breaks the trance state. I saw an interesting idea at saltcube.com which suggested this desire to move was actually caused by the brain to test if the body was truly asleep. if you don't move, then your body will go into a natural sleep and create a paralysis state. I haven't tried to see if this is true, but next time I feel this urge I will stay still.


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6. I had more questions, but they've eluded me for the moment.


When (if) I remember the other questions I had, I'll be sure to post them.

Thanks very much to whomever replies!
1039  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Detailed teachings of Reality on: September 20, 2005, 02:08:21
Belief in responsibility for actions does not equal Karma which implies an external entity (note I did not say being) dominating a person and forcing a punishment upon them.
 The murder of a billion lives means nothing if one truly believes in the astral and the soul surviving death. If I play a game with my children and one of them loses and is 'out', should I be punished for that? The consequences in a view of reality which encompasses the astral is exactly the same. If someone loses (dies) then they are out of that lifetime. They are free to go back if they desire and no great harm has been done to their soul. Please note that I am not condoning murder of any sort. I just feel the reactions of a lot of people who truly believe in life after death (especially those who follow an astral view of creation) are confusing. Another matter is that creation literally consumes itself on every level. Please tell me of a single level where energy does not consume other energy (be that animals eating animals, plants eating nutrients, man eating plants etc) does all this accrue Karmic debt too? Or is the death of lesser energy sources (lesser in our eyes anyway) not worthy of any Karma debt? With creation literally cannibalising and regurgitating itself, we will be damned forever as we will never pay off the Karma.

A question for you: It is established that good and evil are relative to the observers belief systems (which is based on the society into which he/she was born). In many ancient societies ritual sacrifice was not only considered good, it was actively sought out by members of that society as an honour, yet, in today's society such a thing would be considered evil. Who chooses the moral values which encompass creation, and have you seen some record of them? If not, then how can you be sure that your definition of this Karma is correct?

 Karma smacks of passing responsibility to an higher force instead of truly being responsible for our own actions.

Edit: I should also say that I can't really see how causality can be likened to Karma.
1040  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Experiences with the Wave II cd? on: September 20, 2005, 01:45:40
Something to think about regarding focus levels is that it can take a long time to truly familiarise yourself with the state. What you are doing is training brainwaves and then using a trigger to reproduce those brain waves. To achieve a solid state of a specific focus level, practice must be maintained over a period of time. The more practice, the more pure the state. I can only cite from experience, but I first started using Wave 1 focus 10 tracks around 2000. My state of focus 10 now is vastly different to what it was even a year ago let alone 5 years ago. If I desire it I can achieve a true body asleep mind awake state, with little to no sensory perception of body using the counting to 10 trigger learnt from the CDs.
 My advice would be to stick to daily use of Focus 10 exercises and let it grow in strength and depth. The stronger the foundations, the greater the structure can be built on them. If you have the desire to do 2 hemisync exercises a day, then use focus 10 exercises for the earlier session (including REBEL practice etc) and Focus 12 experiences for the later practice (if you have any of the other CDs, you can utilise their tools during F10 and F12).
 Using these exercises is no different from meditating daily, I would call anyone a liar if they said a 1 year meditater could achieve the same depth of focus as a 5 -10 etc year meditater. Why should these exercises be any different?
 My experiences of F12 have been quite dramatic. There is a huge difference between it and the F10 state. I remember after my first se of F12, the following day I was getting flashes of imagery and depth of thought whilst C1 that was quite amazing. Insights appearing as flashes of image overlayering my visual screen.
1041  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Why Astral Project in the Future? on: September 20, 2005, 01:18:10
I think VR might become a possibility without having to decipher thoughts themselves, I come to this conclusion because there has already been dramatic advancements in implanting visual information to the vision centres of the brain using electronics and a video camera. The purpose of these experiments was to allow blind people (with intact visual centres) to see with a camera built into their glasses. It is by no means perfect, but they have had success in transmitting rudimentary forms and colours to these centres. It's a long way off a full VR environment admittedly. But I don't see in the future why it wouldn't be possible through the use of brain surgery and implanted technology to override sensory experiences with those fed directly into sensory brain regions. This would bypass complexities of manipulating thoughts as it just gives input and normal brain processes take over with this implanted information from there.
1042  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Detailed teachings of Reality on: September 20, 2005, 01:08:29
Regarding Monroe believing in Karma. As far as I remember his 'I There' was creating new incarnations to look for the missing basics on Earth. It was even stated by his 'I There' that once they found the basic they would blast off (leave the Earth life system for good). Monroe found the missing basic which was the aperture (where he found the projector of the physical/astral planes). He didn't once mention karma. Also Monroe stated that we could not be destroyed or influenced by another being or external influence if we didn't allow it. He used this knowledge in the third book when some being tried to make him worship it as his God and then attacked him. He also continually states this throughout the gateway series especially in conjunction with the REBEL tool. If we cannot be harmed or influenced without consent, how can karma influence us without consent?
 I feel that Karma is a self fulfilling prophesy rather than a tool of punishment. If you love your life and those around you, carry that love inside you. If you hate aspects of your life, that hate is carried inside of you. If you do a bad deed and your learnt moral structure makes you feel guilt. You carry that guilt inside you. At no point can I see where these feelings are generated by an external entity known as Karma. Its all internal (and perhaps not necessary).
1043  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / AP and determinism on: July 16, 2005, 00:58:36
hehe don't give up Wink

 My experience to date leads me to believe there is a lot more than the physical (and that the physical is a belief system on the spectrum of consciousness), but I had the thought of my original post on a walk this morning and it did worry me Tongue

 I just don't like to think that I'm accepting things blindly, or because alternatives are scary. I also like to pull everything apart (figuratively speaking of course).

 I perhaps think too much of such maters (or perhaps think too much using a logic formed and contained to the phsycial) and am looking for answers which make sence to a physical perception.
1044  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / AP and determinism on: July 15, 2005, 23:31:31
Quote from: vanos
Quote from: MisterJingo
A quick aside: Before someone quotes quantum physics as proof that determinism doesn’t exist, and hence the rest of the idea falls down, read up on black hole entropy.
 The one hurled in a deterministic universe was that information was lost in black holes, now it seems string theory has provided a solution to this problem. Black holes actually store the information lost to them, and through entropy, that information could be passed back into the universe.


Why do they call it "information" anyway?  I mean, the stuff that supposedly leaks from a black hole surely has no resemblance to the stuff that was crammed into it in the first place. Its pure radiation. Radiation is not information. It would be generous to call it "data", nevermind "information".  huh  Anyway, just a thought. Symantics schmantics.


 It's called information as the atoms/particles which were consumed by it would have contained such information as velocity, spin, charge etc.

 The blackholes literally comsumed energy which couldn't be accounted for, and hence things could not be determined as information was missing. Even if that information is returned in another form, it balances the books, and allows for the possibility of predetermination.

Regarding your previous post:

Quote from: vanos

I do think that outside of our physical linear timeframe, all probable experiences exist (or are stored then) in some way.


 If such a thing really exists, then everything is predetermined!
1045  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: AP and determinism on: July 15, 2005, 23:24:22
Quote from: vanos
Quote from: MisterJingo
I should state assumptions.


You know what they say about assumptions?  Cheesy


 Assumptions were stated to give an indication of a starting point of my reasoning. As I was reasoning on a purely physical level, I used scientific  
method to start.

Quote from: vanos

Quote from: MisterJingo

 In a deterministic universe, everything is predestined.



I hate this idea, but okay...


 I'm not saying I enjoy the idea either, but I can't discount it's possible validity.
Quote from: vanos

Quote from: MisterJingo

I guess it comes down to, that if we are all the exact same consciousness, spawned from the same physical brains (in different bodies) then isn’t it possible that each of our brains contain the same areas of knowledge and knows through the way we are wired. So 2 people meeting in the astral, could really be 2 people accessing the area of brain function relating to this experience?)


This can never be proven or disproven to somebody who is assuming reality as being only physical and nothing else... so it is kind of pointless really.


 I wouldn't say it is pointless. Regardless if you like it or not, we were born onto this physical plane. This whole line of reasoning is to determine if there is only physical or something more.
Quote from: vanos

Quote from: MisterJingo

 What I’m trying to get my head around is the possibility that the universe as we know it is a brain construct


The old brain-in-a-jar idea. Again, there is no way for a brain-in-a-jar to prove to itself that there exist a reality beyond the experiences it creates in its own mind.


We don't know that there is no way. I can't state any ways right now, which is part of a reason for this post.

Quote from: vanos

Quote from: MisterJingo

That is, things are very different from what we actually perceive.


There is no reality, there is only perception. A vague statement, I know...


I'd say reality is an interpretation of perception. I would also say that there is a a lot more than just perception (which is a possible human mind construct).
Quote from: vanos

Quote from: MisterJingo

I know there are a lot of holes in the above, and even the possibility of such a thing being true can be quite scary,


It is scary to think that ALL my perceptions regarding OBE's and AP's being non-physical experiences, are all wrong.


I agree. I feel the same way too.
Quote from: vanos

Quote from: MisterJingo

 As we are seeing truth through only a self filtered belief system/ego and potentially only seeing what we would like to see.


What truth? There is only perception for us. Truth can not be found here.


 Perhaps I mis-used the word truth. By this I mean if there is any greater meaning to anything, only allowing yourself to absorb part of it (blocking other 'perception' because you do not like it's implications) is not allowing you to see everything. Literally you see what you want (caught in illusion?)
Quote from: vanos

Quote from: MisterJingo

how would you personally disprove them , or integrate them?


As lame as it sounds, the "reality" is that I cannot disprove them to you, only to myself. In my own limited perceptions I have come to believe I am part of something that is more than merely physical.

 rolleyes

Interesting.


How can you disprove them to yourself? You have stated throughout your answers that such a thing cannot be proved or even disproven. So you either lied or your proof exists purely of belief?
1046  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / OBE vs NDE on: July 15, 2005, 18:10:24
I think the answer in part can be found in possible evidence for native DMT being released by the brain at time of death. This chemical is one of the most potent hallucinogens known to man (and is produced by the brain). Normally, the brain has mechanisms to stop DMT from being released, but at times of trauma or high stress, there is evidence to suggest that these mechanisms are overwhelmed and so the DMT is spread to all brain parts.
 Read DMT experience reports, and the book 'DMT: The Spirit Molecule' by Rick Strassman which deals with clinical experiments into this area, to see the striking similarities between NDE reports and reports of people being given DMT.


 To add a bit more:

 I've a feeling that during normal OBE some DMT might be released, but due to it being a small amount, and the trance state (stimuli deprivation) amplifying the effects, the experience produced is more watered down then a full blown DMT release and consequent GOD meeting etc.
1047  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / AP and determinism on: July 15, 2005, 13:44:03
A quick aside: Before someone quotes quantum physics as proof that determinism doesn’t exist, and hence the rest of the idea falls down, read up on black hole entropy.
 The one hurled in a deterministic universe was that information was lost in black holes, now it seems string theory has provided a solution to this problem. Black holes actually store the information lost to them, and through entropy, that information could be passed back into the universe.
1048  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / AP and determinism on: July 15, 2005, 13:37:18
I guess before I start babbling, I should state assumptions. What I present here are not necessarily my views, but it's an idea I just had, and even ideas we do not like should be studied to see if they contain any truth.

 Firstly, we all carry around the same consciousness. I don't necessarily mean that this has to be a shared consciousness(one/source) etc but if we take consciousness to be the product of the physical brain, then the same mechanism in each of our brains produces self awareness and consciousness the same way. Personality differences arise through direct experience shaping our belief systems and ego.
 Secondly, I'm going to look at this from the viewpoint that only physical exists, i.e. we are just the product of a physical brain and nothing more.

 If the physical brain is complex enough to produce self awareness or at least the illusion of self awareness, and allows us to construct this physical reality we perceive around us, is it such a large step to assume that the same brain can create other locales below the level of our current focus (those being the astral, mental, of F1,2,3,4 etc)?

 One proof that we can give to being more than a physical brain is the ability to remote view, or project and to a remote location and successfully perceive knowledge outside our current location.
 In a deterministic universe, everything is predestined. If we each share this consciousness, is it not possible that the information we receive is already within us? i.e. we simply filter through our brains knowledge and retrieve this information, rather than travelling to a remote location?

 Another proof of being more than the physical is the ability to meet someone remotely in the astral and booth have similar experiences. Yet, in a predetermined universe whatever neurological function relates to knowledge of that meeting would exist within all of us.

I guess it comes down to, that if we are all the exact same consciousness, spawned from the same physical brains (in different bodies) then isn’t it possible that each of our brains contain the same areas of knowledge and knows through the way we are wired. So 2 people meeting in the astral, could really be 2 people accessing the area of brain function relating to this experience?)

 What I’m trying to get my head around is the possibility that the universe as we know it is a brain construct, and so all experience is already stored. I'm also trying to grasp that idea that even mundane reality interactions, such as talking to friends or watching TV, is but an energy exchange of some kind, or perhaps brain function, that our brain actually perceives as the aforementioned. That is, things are very different from what we actually perceive.


 I know there are a lot of holes in the above, and even the possibility of such a thing being true can be quite scary, but I’m a firm believer that we should walk all avenues of thought. To exist in a world where we only look at knowledge which pleases us (shunning or ridiculing knowledge which threatens our current reality view), surely leads to a warping of any possible truths we might find. As we are seeing truth through only a self filtered belief system/ego and potentially only seeing what we would like to see.


If presented with the above ideas (I hope I articulated myself sufficiently to at least get the idea across) how would you personally disprove them , or integrate them?
1049  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / how do you see while APing??? on: May 05, 2005, 02:14:36
Quote from: Michael_E
Quote from: MisterJingo
Sight in a physical body is simply the interpretation of energy (photons hitting cones and rods on the retina, which generates electric impulses which then propagate to the brains visual centres) by the brain/mind.  We should also consider how powerful personal perception is though, and so this might not be the case and I am just babbling :p


Haha! Babble on Mister Jingo! You surely have some good ideas forming there. There was a study done with participants hooked up to PET scans that had asked the participants to look at an object and then close their eyes and imagine the same object. The study partly showed that the same areas of the brain became active when the participants imagined the object as compared to when they physically saw the object. This could perhaps tell us that the brain doesnt differentiate between real and imagined once the info has been integrated. I can see how personal perception can be a big thing while oob.


 There have been even more interesting studies in this area, one which springs to mind regards imagining exercise. To quote a source:

Quote
In a fascinating experiment, researchers at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation discovered that a muscle can be strengthened just by thinking about exercising it.

For 12 weeks (five minutes a day, five days per week) a team of 30 healthy young adults imagined either using the muscle of their little finger or of their elbow flexor. Dr. Vinoth Ranganathan and his team asked the participants to think as strongly as they could about moving the muscle being tested, to make the imaginary movement as real as they could.

Compared to a control group – that did no imaginary exercises and showed no strength gains – the little-finger group increased their pinky muscle strength by 35%. The other group increased elbow strength by 13.4%.

What's more, brain scans taken after the study showed greater and more focused activity in the prefrontal cortex than before. The researchers said strength gains were due to improvements in the brain's ability to signal muscle.

1050  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / how do you see while APing??? on: May 05, 2005, 02:08:59
Well an answer to this could depend on what you believe ap to be. I personally don't see it as moving outside of a physical body, but more a movement within the mind i.e. moving focus from one area (the physical) to another (what we call the astral). In such an interpretation of ap its possible to be in the middle of both areas, not quite focused on either. So when you saw the light with your astral body, being partly focused on the physical too could have caused confusion in interpreting what was happening. So the light was also seemingly perceived by the physical body too. I've experienced being out of phase with two areas, feeling both bodies and independent thought processes at the same time. It can be quite confusing.
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