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1076  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / One step forward, two steps back? on: March 22, 2005, 15:07:29
What meditation techniques do you use? Also what is your aim? I ask these questions as it seems you put expectations on your meditation sessions, which will affect them.
 When I meditate I have no expectations, I try to reach no state. I just focus on the meditation object and move my mind back to it if it wanders. If something bothers me, I acknowledge it, sencing its effect on my mind/body (passively) before letting go and returning to the meditation object.
 I probably don't have to say this but for meditation to be effective long term, a daily routine is needed (even if just for 15 minutes a day.)

 If I am doing OBE practice, my methods are very different to those I use for meditation. I learnt quite early that mixing meditation techniques with OBe techniques soon polluted my meditation sessions ie I have no interest in hypnogogic imagery when meditating - it is a distraction, but my mind had assocciated certain techniques with focusing/producing hypnogogic imagery.
1077  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / WALLS & WIRES on: March 22, 2005, 13:25:21
Quote from: manuel

thats robert monroe, his 1st book to be precise


 I had a feeling it might be, but didn't have the book at hand to check. Thanks for that Smiley
1078  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / WALLS & WIRES on: March 22, 2005, 13:05:52
Hmm, I'll have to search my memory. But I do recall a book I read where the author had trouble moving past wires. In one experiment he electrified a frame and tried to push through it when OBE, but he said the electricity was like a net, it could be pushed, but was difficult to get through. he also commented on being attracted to electrified wires (ie it seemed to pull him toward's them.)
1079  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Energy Body on: March 22, 2005, 07:45:11
I'm uncertain on this issue too, which is why I am asking others views Smiley
 Regarding consciousness/matter interaction, I've always been of the mind that matter is a product of consciousness. Or put in a more articulate way, perception of matter is produced by the mind based upon some form of  'information input' (perhaps in a holographic view, perception of interference patterns which are interpreted as matter.)
 I've been considering for a while if belief is all that is important. By this I mean there are many disciplines which lead to 'enlightenment', are all these disciplines correct? Or is it that total belief in them forms a pathway to 'enlightenment' (OBE etc) ? Considering energy bodies in this regard, energy work could construct a system which overlays the physical. More than this, it even attributes psychology/physiology to the model. So through repeated belief reinforcement over time, one has built a system in the mind for manipulating the body to cause desired effect. Is such a thing possible?
 I've also been interested in the possibility of indigenous DMT (DiMethylTryptamine - one of the most powerful psychedelics known to man, and produced by the brain) being the cause of energy sensations in the body - intense ones such as vibrations or kundalini experiences. This isn't to reduce energy sensations to purely physical, but it might give them a physical mechanism of action. Reading reports of people who have taken external DMT shows striking resemblance to energy sensations which I seem to feel during OBE practice, and during some kundalini experiences. Reports also seem to show users entering astral like locales. So could the meditative techniques used to produce OBE produce a DMT release in the brain, and lowered sensory awareness increase its effects? I guess I am getting ahead of myself Smiley
1080  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Energy Body on: March 22, 2005, 01:58:45
No. I have found (in my experience) that a person doesnt have an energy body until they believe in it and start to develop it with techniques (reinforce the belief through mental exertion.) To use an example: Monroe didnt believe in energy bodies, and yet still had amazing adventures in the astral.
 If chakras and storage areas are not the energy body, where do they reside? Also, how do they fit into the experience of the body being a belief (ie was your form always that of a physical human body and the conventional mapped energy systems?) or when the body is actually another form other than that of 'human'? All energy reinforcement techniques I have learnt propose that certain meridians and chakras are in certain places in regards to the human form.
1081  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Does astral projection feel "real?" on: March 22, 2005, 01:30:34
Quote from: Thanatos5
I have a question that I hope both novice and veteran astral projectors can help in answering. Now, when your in the astral dimension, what does it feel like? More specifically, is the experience of being in this reality feel like normal, waking reality? Does it feel MORE than that? Does it feel just all like a dream? I want to know because soon I too will be going into the astral for the first time (consciously that is) and I want to know before I make that "leap" into it. Thank you.


It depends on my level of lucidity. Sometimes my consciousness is quite foggy, and I do things and then worry that i am really awake but half alseep. An example being that once I couldnt push through a window, so I opened the window and jumped out, but then I had a sudden fear that I might really be awake and have done something very stupid.
 Other times my consciousness burns so bright that I am more aware then physical waking consciousness. Its hard to explain, but its like my mind and awarness is super aware, and it is an amazing experiece.
1082  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Energy Body on: March 22, 2005, 01:25:53
I've often wondered if the energy body (primary and secondary energy systems) is but a belief system which once bought into, could help with certain spiritual persuits.
 Things I've learnt from OBEs is that physical body perception is a belief system which soon fades in the OBE state if awarness is not kept on the act of having a body. When the body is forgotten I have no body, I am but a point of awarness.
 On many occassions I have morphed into the form of other animals or beings.
 My question regards the existence of the energy bodie outside that of belief systems. Are energy bodies an innate part of consciousness? If so, what form do they take when (physically learnt) bodily awarness is forgotten; so the body fades? Also, what form do they take when we morph into other forms?
 I guess I am am coming to the conclusion that the energy body is a belief and nothing 'absolute' or more.
1083  Integral Philosophy / Welcome to Integral Philosophy! / Does everything have an opposite? on: February 04, 2005, 11:42:36
Regarding some of the examples given. Negative numbers do not exist, they can be construed as a deficit of a positive sum, but they hold no reality in themselves (take an apple from nothing). They are a construct of maths to help the mind of man conceptualise various phenomena - such as like pretend time etc.
 Regarding opposites, hard and soft? Diamond is harder than stone, water is softer than a viscous liquid. If we regard such a thing as an absolute, absolute hardness, absolute softness. Does every degree in between have an opposite too? If so, what about the substance which is directly between the two extremes?
 This can be applied to any of the examples.
 I do not believe everything has an opposite, I do believe that primitive man founded the idea due to a limited outlook. Oh look: man, woman. Sun, moon. Day, night. Life, death. These are just man made associations. Woman is no more the opposite of man then cold is the opposite of hot (how cold, how hot?) They are just states.
1084  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Why astal over lucid dreaming? on: February 04, 2005, 04:04:34
Just to add something: I use words like subconscious. But ask yourself what the subconscioius truely is. I could quote a books definition of the subconscious, but I have no idea what it is on a personal direct experience level. So it could be said that any assumption I base on there being a subconscious is flawed. I'm basing assumptions on an unknown/assumed foundation. When you look at everything about oneself which is taken for granted, school taught concepts we believe without looking within ourselves, it's shocking how little we truely 'know'.
 This is what I mean about knowing oneself. Really getting to the bottom of things - and new knowledge (experiences outside the bounds of ones stored information) gives tools to study further.
1085  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Why astal over lucid dreaming? on: February 04, 2005, 04:00:21
In regards to your first point. I'm not sure if it is random or not. My experience to date has not made me believe either way. I like to think we are not bound by destiny (deterministic/non-random) but I really don't know. Its perhaps possible that the experience is not random, but the intent of the projector (even if a subconscious intent) could direct to a certain experience. So it would appear to be a random experience, when in fact it is not.
 In regards to your second question, I guess it depends on the reason for your projection. If you wish to learn about yourself, and your consciousness then a LD (your own back yard) could prove useful. But, I believe we can only know ourselves when we gain new material (knowledge) to process ourselves by. If we stopped right now. Never experiencing anything new, reading, seeing, touching, tasting, a new piece of knowledge/experience we would eventually come to a stop. To truly know oneself, I think we have to pull apart every belief, like, prejudice, emotion, to see what is at the core. But, to do such a thing would be to study the sum of our current experience, with the sum of our current experience. So new knowledge (visiting other worlds) gives us scope to grow/feeds us new knowledge so that we might learn more about ourselves. I hope that makes sense.
1086  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Why astal over lucid dreaming? on: February 03, 2005, 21:34:43
Its not that easy Smiley Universal wisdom can come from within. But Most people/constructs seen in a LD are self generated. Wheras in AP other 'intelligences' could have created the places you visit.
1087  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Pictures in minds eye before sleep on: February 03, 2005, 20:38:41
Quote from: Frank
Hello:

These kinds of images are very normal to people who practice this art. In Monroe terms you are entering the Focus 12 state. If you hold your awareness by observing the images. Not too much but then not so loosely that you fall asleep. (There is a very fine line you need to tread at this point.) You will find after a little while you will "enter" the imagery. The whole space will open out into the vast expanse of mind (everything takes on a 3D effect) and you will be free to go walkabout.

Yours,
Frank


Frank, I never really equated this state with F12 before. I can quickly enter a state where hypnagogic scenarios are evident, but I usually ignore them as I figured they were detremental to what I was trying to do.
 I've been wondering lately if ignoring them has been the right route to take...
1088  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Why astal over lucid dreaming? on: February 03, 2005, 20:16:53
I usually see a lucid dream as a self generated inner experience. Personally owned by you.
 Astral projection is usually a experience in an 'outer' environment. Where people you meet and places you go are not sole constructs of your mind (they might be construed in a certain way based on your belief and knowledge, but they are not generated 'internally' like a LD is).
 There is overlap between the two experiences though.
 Also talking about things being internal and extrenal is not quite correct, but it's easier to explain that way.
1089  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Sensative consciousness - inducing AP just by reading about on: February 03, 2005, 04:14:30
Thats ok Smiley AP can be scary, but I think the fear is more a fear of the unknown. Taking steps into places which are not charted by current science, or allowed for by the belief of most current humans is a big thing. Just keep in mind that nothing can truely harm you, and even scary situations can be delt with when/if they arise.
1090  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Defining dreams on: February 03, 2005, 04:11:02
A Lucid Dream is the term used for dreams where one has awarness of actually dreaming (rather than taking for granted the dream scenario.)
1091  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Sensative consciousness - inducing AP just by reading about on: February 03, 2005, 04:04:08
Regardless of what a few people might think (perhaps still trapped in 50-60's AP belief systems) it is absolutely impossble to get possessed while OBE.
1092  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Sensative consciousness - inducing AP just by reading about on: February 03, 2005, 03:54:50
Repeated experience with the knowledge that you cannot get possessed. Such states can be scary, but you have to remember no harm can come to you. After seeing this yourself (with experience) the fear starts to fade.
1093  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / The different spirit planes on: February 03, 2005, 03:49:10
hehe I'm currently rereading them too Smiley
1094  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Anyone else think Christianity discriminates? on: February 03, 2005, 03:47:23
The reason I take my view is because I know a lot of very open-minded liberal Christians, I even discuss my AP experiences with them, and my beliefs on the afterlife and God. They don't necessarily agree with me, but they enjoy exchanging ideas and don't class me as a lunatic outright Smiley But conversely I know some very closed minded Christians too.
 So I reason that if the religion was inherently discriminate, there wouldnt be any open-minded Christians such as my friends are.
1095  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / The different spirit planes on: February 03, 2005, 03:41:58
I think he mentioned belief system circles sorrounding the Earth, made of M-Band noise.
1096  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / Pictures in minds eye before sleep on: February 03, 2005, 03:39:31
These are called hypnagogic images. Everyone experiences them, but like dreams, I guess few remember. They are usually experienced as one decends into sleep. But as one becomes familiar with trance states and meditation they can be experienced when quite awake (being a distraction usually).
1097  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Strange Projection on: February 03, 2005, 02:54:09
Thanks for the responses all.
I have only ever been able to roll out, any other form of exit doesn't seem to work for me.
When I say I try too hard, I mean in terms of trying to increase the vibrations before exit.
 I usually 'sway' from side to side, but I guess I do it too forcefully which seems to stop them (I wouldnt be surprised if I actually sway my physical body on occasion due to the force). The next few times I experience the vibrations I will just take it slowly, breathing deeply and rolling out with none of my usual excitement Smiley
 I experience SP very frequently, if I sleep more than my standard 5-6 hours a night I can induce them multiple times a day. But my exit rate is not too fantastic so far. Strangely my Dad also experiences SP frequently too. He knows of my OBE experiences, and it doesn't strike anything familiar in him. So either he doesn't AP or doesn't remember if he does. Although in past projections when staying at my parents house I have seen my dad when I've been OBE exploring their house. He didn't seemed to see me and his eyes looked glazed over. We seemed to communicate non verbally though.
 To push off-topic a bit. When I lived at home, I shared a bunk-bed with my brother. He was above me, and at one period my AP practice was pretty intense. I would go to bed very early to induce AP, and practice during the day too. During these periods of intense practice my brother experienced a couple of OBEs too. He has no interest in any spiritual/philosophical areas. Hes more of a sports/materialism person Smiley I'm still unsure what mechanism could of triggered OBEs in him during my intense periods of practice. During one such period he was on holiday in Spain and he still experienced them then, so proximity couldnt be the answer.
1098  Dreams / Welcome to Dreams! / First time chatter on: February 03, 2005, 02:41:46
The silver chord is usually seen in realtime-zone astral projection. Lucid dreaming is more of personal inner experience.
 I've seen the chord while OBE, but it was a faint luminous green rather than silver in my perception.
 Regarding negative experiences. In the LD realms these could be seen more as inner fears or repressed negative emotion/archtypes. One thing to always keep in mind is that nothing can truely harm you.
1099  World Cultures, Traditions and Religions / Welcome to World Cultures, Traditions and Religions! / Anyone else think Christianity discriminates? on: February 02, 2005, 18:35:29
I don't think Christianity is to blame for such actions and beliefs. I think the people who follow Christianity are to blame for such actions and beliefs. I have nothing wrong with Christianity or any other religion, but holding hatred againt, or criticising a religion does nothing but hold hatred and negativity in yourself.
1100  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / How smart is your Right foot? on: February 02, 2005, 18:02:27
My foot didn't change direction... But then I'm left footed and right handed. So perhaps that had something to do with it not working :p
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