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1  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Scientific Literature about OBEs and NDEs on: November 13, 2020, 13:45:08
Hi 2years,

sorry it took a while, I DM'd you the invite.
2  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: What makes you believe in AP/OBEs? on: September 25, 2020, 15:59:37
Understanding reality's non-physical nature, the very question of "but how do you know OBEs aren't just hallucinations of the brain?" seems absurd and childish.  If this is still not making sense, just think about how a game works.  Does the game world actually need to exist, in and of itself? Of course not.

I didn't really need to write all that to answer your question, but it might clear up others you're likely to have.  To more directly answer your question, there IS, what I consider "definitive proof".  From the man, himself:

https://youtu.be/9dj5337UQmE?t=613 watch up to ~17:00 for your proof.

I've thought about "brain in a vat" type arguments a lot and I agree that we can't know anything for certain about the "physical world".
I'm personally not really a hardcore materialist, I've been more of an idealist for most of my life.
I can imagine ways to explain these neurscientific findings away in an idealist fashion.
The neuroscience alone is not the only reason to doubt the reality of OBEs though.

The question whether or not OBEs are hallucinations still makes sense to ask. The real question is this: "Are OBEs a shared experience?"

The physical world is a shared experience. Me and you could sit next to each other and we could describe the same objects that we perceive.
Since other people can perceive the same physical objects, they must in some way exist independently of me (how exactly that is, we can't know for sure).
Dreams are arguably not a shared experience. Only I can see the content of my dreams. (I know some people here would disagree with that)

So when I'm asking the question "Are OBEs just a hallucination?" the actual question is "Are OBEs a shared experience?"

I think there are 2 ways it could be shared:
1. Someone has an OBE and can accurately describe things he has seen in the physical.
2. two or more OBEers meet up and both describe the same perceptions in the non-physical

#1 Seems to be almost impossible and as far as I can tell there are no credible, successful cases. (Some cases especially with NDEs seem credible at first, but lose their credibility when you find out more about them.)
#2 There is basically only one reported case (Thomas Cambell and Dennis Mennerich) with questionably credebility.
Another problem is the one I brought up in my reply to EscapeVelocity: When do we consider 2 non-physical experiences to be the same or different?
Some APers seem to interpret their experiences very charitably, so that any 2 descriptions of experiences might be considered the same, if you just interpret them that way.
Maybe charitable interpretation is the source of most "validation" experiences, so that if we don't interpret the experiences as liberally, we find that no validation exists?

I didn't really need to write all that to answer your question, but it might clear up others you're likely to have.  To more directly answer your question, there IS, what I consider "definitive proof".  From the man, himself:

https://youtu.be/9dj5337UQmE?t=613 watch up to ~17:00 for your proof.

I know the story of Thomas Campbell and Dennis Mennerich leaving their bodies in Monroe's lab and describing the same perceptions.
They claim they have sound recordings of their live commentary that match up exactly.
This would be very convincing evidence in favor of OBEs being a shared experience.

However, where are these sound recordings? If they exited and they were as convincing as they claim, I would imagine the TMI would feature them prominently on their website.
After all, the claimed purpose of the TMI is research and why would they not publish their most interesting findings?
Other recordings of their TMI explorer series are available, but they do not contain this specific story. But because these recordings are not available anywhere,
I think they either do not exist or they are not nearly as convincing as they pretend they are.

I agree this would be very good evidence, if they would actually show us the recordings. But the way it is, it's just them telling stories and saying "I have evidence, I just don't want to show you".
3  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / Re: What makes you believe in AP/OBEs? on: September 21, 2020, 18:13:06
Thank you all for your kind answers and your time. Smiley

Let me reply to a few of your arguments:

Look at it this way, a heart attack can just as easily be induced by passing an electric current through the body. Does that negate a heart attack of the natural or self-induced variety?

That's not really a fitting analogy, in my opinion. The relevant difference between a heart attack and an OBE is that everybody agrees that a heart attack happens in your heart.
Maybe the brain region stimulated in these experiments is the connection between your consciousness and your brain and the current disturbs that connection?
The brain region in question integrates different sensory inputs and creates our body schema. So the simplest explanation is that an OBE is just a moment of an erroneous body schema, basically the result of a miscalculation in the brain.

If there were good reasons to believe in veridical perception during astral projections, I'd be fine with explaining the neuroscience away, though.
The neuroscience is just one problem among many, on its own it's not enough to really cast doubt on OBEs/APs.

#1   Not true. Sensations of bodily dislocation can be induced by electrical current...that is not an OBE. The researchers have a limited idea of what they are looking for, much less trying to measure. Like using tape measures or sending signals into space to find lions in Africa...

I'm not so sure about that. The subjects description of the OBE induced by electric current seems very similar to OBEs described by other people outside the laboratory.
At a low current, the subject could feel the typical vibrations and at a higher current she was floating under the ceiling and watching everything from above. Similar to many NDEs.

Arguably, astral projections happening during REM sleep are a different class of experiences, but those on the other hand could be explained as "just lucid dreams."

#2   Reality fluctuations are one indication of just how wildly our interpretations can differ in describing what are essentially energetic structures of the Non-Physical; they can be slightly dissimilar or greatly dissimilar to the next two people to describe them, dependent on many factors. There is no framework that demands they be the same or even similar. Case in point: When I did Lifeline at Monroe and we first went to the 'Hospital' in Focus 27, I got nothing...but one of the other participants experienced the twin-wheeled orbital platform from 2001: A Space Odyssey.  I saw it as a perfectly reasonable representation of the F27 hospital environment, but he didn't get it and refused to accept it as a valid experience. I tried to explain to him in terms of how he might accept his own interpretation, but he steadfastly refused. I was actually a little jealous because I understood and accepted the 'interpretation' of the energy; and yet, he refused it. This is a key part to understanding the complexity and nuance to it all.

This gets us to a very interesting question:
How do we decide whether 2 objects or locations seen by different people in the astral are the same or different, if perceiving them to be different is not enough?
The other participant could be right about his own experience. Maybe it was not the F27 hospital. How would we know? This leads to a whole bunch of questions:
At what point do we know 2 objects/locations really are different?
If we're interpreting experiences like that, basically all experiences could mean whatever we want, right?
Are non-physical experiences just Rorschach blots for our interpretations?

The reason why it matters (to me at least), is that if two projectors could see the same objects and locations, that would mean these objects/locations exist outside the individual's imagination.

Itís like well... we are studying the Soul and whatís really any more important than that?

That's my concern as well and why I'm asking this question here. Either this stuff is real and we should all be doing it because it adds a whole new dimension to our lifes or it's not real and we should not be wasting our time on it (to say it kind of bluntly).
4  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Projection Experiences! / What makes you believe in AP/OBEs? on: September 20, 2020, 22:50:21
Hi everyone,

I'm currently researching the phenomenon of AP and OBEs and have stumbled upon some arguments that make me doubt the reality of astral projection:

1. OBEs can easily be induced in the lab by applying a current in a specific brain region. This includes typical separation sensations such as vibrations.
2. Reality fluctuations. I know there are many ways to explain these, but the simplest explanation is still that it's all just dreams and your brain makes errors when reconstructing your environment.
3. Many APers described a variety of locations and beings, but there seems to be little overlap between the experiences of different APers. E.g., people rarely seem to see the same locations or beings that Robert Monroe described in his books. If it all would exist beyond any individual projectors brain, people should see similar places independently and by accident, without specifically trying to visit one of those locations.

To me it all seems to point to one conclusion: AP and OBEs are illusions created by the brain.

I'm interested in why you personally believe in astral projection and why you believe it can not be explained as "just a dream" that is just happening in your head.
And if it is because of your own experiences, I'd be interested to hear what kind of experiences you have had that made it clear to you that this is real beyond your imagination.
5  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Scientific Literature about OBEs and NDEs on: September 18, 2020, 18:52:48
Curiosity, mostly. I'm very much on the fence about whether I believe it to be real or not, so I thought a look at the available research might be interesting.
I've got around 50 papers by now, some of them are pretty cool. The very first one I linked in this thread is still my favorite.

I'm not an experiencer (read my older thread to see the most progress I got in the past) and I'm not really trying right now.
6  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Re: Scientific Literature about OBEs and NDEs on: September 15, 2020, 23:18:10
Linking them all on here would be a lot of effort right now, I'd post the discord link publicly if I knew the astralpulse team was okay with that.
I've sent you a DM though, GrumpyRabbit, but I'm not sure if it actually worked (it's not showing in my outbox).

Here are a few more that I found interesting:

Title: Do out-of-body and near-death experiences point towards the reality of nonlocal consciousness? A critical evaluation
Date: 2015
Publication: The Journal for Transdisciplinary Research in Southern Africa
Link: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/305294312_Do_out-of-body_and_near-death_experiences_point_towards_the_reality_of_nonlocal_consciousness_A_critical_evaluation
PDF: https://td-sa.net/index.php/td/article/view/29/36

Title: "Voluntary out-of-body experience: an fMRI study"
Date: 2014
Publication: Frontiers in Human Neuroscience
Link: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2014.00070/full

7  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Scientific Literature about OBEs and NDEs on: September 14, 2020, 20:37:40
Hi everyone,

I'm starting to do a literature search about OBEs and related phenomena.
Mostly I'm looking to find out, whether there is already any good evidence for veridical perception in these states out there.

I've already found some papers that I think are interesting:

NDE Implications from a Group of SpontaneousLong-Distance Veridical OBEs: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233864201_NDE_implications_from_a_Group_of_Spontaneous_Long_Distance_Veridical_OBEs
This is a paper written by an experienced OBEer about his own experiences. Some of these experiences could be confirmed by other witnesses.

Near-Death and Out-of-Body Experiences in the Blind: A Study of Apparent Eyeless Vision: https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1023/A:1025010015662.pdf
In this paper, the authors talked to blind people who had NDEs or OBEs.

I'm organizing the links to studies like this in a discord server, would it be okay to post an invitation link here?
8  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: First steps in phasing with custom hemisync assistance on: September 22, 2019, 20:09:53
After taking some time off from AP practice, I've been getting into it again the last few days.

I've created a new audio file that includes the F3, F10 and F12 sounds with a total length of 35 minutes. Basically it's 10 minutes of each sound.
I've created these sounds by analyzing the gateway process sound files and recreating the specific sounds, but by now I realized that these sounds do not actually correlate
to the specific states of consciousness. For me, the F10 sound seems to roughly correlate to the states of F10 and F12, while the F12 sound seems to be getting me into the state of F15.
So to minimize any further confusion, I should probably stop calling the sounds by the names of their associated focus states.
Instead, I'll just call them sound 1, sound 2, sound 3 (S1, S2, S3).
My method of choice is still just listening to the audio and applying the noticing technique.

Sound 1 is a mixture of 8Hz and 4Hz binaural beats, which seems to have very limited effects on my consciousness. Nothing extraordinary usually happens while listening to this sound, but I keep it basically just as an intro for my audio files. 

Sound 2 is a mixture of 4Hz binaural beats. As soon as this sound starts to play, I usually feel I'm zooming into the darkness in front of my eyes, together with a widening of my visual field (more peripheral vision, less focused, still just seeing the darkness in front of my eyes though). After a few more minutes of this sound, microdreams might start to appear. Not always though.

Sound 3 is mostly a 2Hz binaural beat. As soon as this sound starts to play, I black out completely and only regain consciousness after the audio file ends, lol. Often, I have no recollection at all of ever hearing this sound during the session. (But I do have a clear memory of listening to S2 for a long time). At first, I assumed I'm just falling asleep, but by now (after some more experiments), I'm thinking it's actually the state of Focus 15.
Compared to actual sleep, I do have more control. I.e. the possibility to return to normal consciousness, if I want to. It is kind of a timeless, quiet blackness though, very similar to sleep and I don't really hear the sound from my earphones anymore at this point. Time passes very quickly in this state.

It's interesting to see how strongly these sounds affect me. When the audio file switches from S1 to S2 or from S2 to S3, the changes in my state of consciousness are very noticeable and quick.



So that's it for some general progress, I've had some interesting stuff happen this weekend as well:

Yesterday, I did the same S1-S3 session while sitting upright on my couch. The usual happened and microdreams started at the end of the S2 part. Because I was sitting upright, they were accompanied by my head falling forward, causing me to wake up a little, each time it happened. At some point, I felt like I switched into the dream scene for a very short time (maybe one second), but returned instantly when my head fell forward again. So I guess that was pretty close to actual phasing.

Today, I did an attempt lying down on my couch again and I decided to try a visual rundown instead of using just the noticing method (as I would usually do). Not very happy with how it went, the visualization takes a lot of mental effort. Also visualizing me moving around seems to keep my body more awake than in my other attempts and I have more difficulty staying relaxed. Idk, I guess I keep experimenting with that, but maybe the rundowns with movement are not for me. I'll try experimenting with rundowns that do not include as much movement. 

Also, since I started again, I kinda forgot about the advice I already got in this thread, so from now on I'll try to apply what you guys said as well.
9  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Question for the Lurkers on: August 21, 2019, 03:34:01
Hi Nameless,

I guess I'm mostly a lurker as well, although I have posted before.
I'm not progressing a lot with my AP practice (due to lack of practice), but I also don't have any real questions to ask, so I'm not posting a lot right now.
When I finally get myself into some kind of practice schedule that might change and I'll either have progress to report or questions to ask.
In that case, this forum would be the first group I'd visit, because I think it's the place where I would get the most valuable answers.

I'm checking the forum for new posts almost daily, I must admit, just to see if anything interesting pops up.
But yeah, essentially I'm saying I don't have anything to talk about right now, nor do I expect anything specific from this forum.

10  Astral Chat / Welcome to Members Introductions! / Re: Hello on: June 30, 2019, 23:19:42
Thanks for welcoming me, everyone.

@Volgerie: I have the book, but I didn't really look into it yet. I've watched youtube videos with Buhlman though and think he's an interesting guy. His target technique sounds like a good thing to try. I'll read the book at some point for sure!
11  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: First steps in phasing with custom hemisync assistance on: June 28, 2019, 02:34:42
That 'falling sensation' that is followed by the body twitch, which pulls back your consciousness...let that happen...relax and follow the imagery; even if it means you fall asleep. This is your starting point; let it establish itself and then you will perceive a direction to move beyond it. It may require one or two or maybe three tries...so just allow the process.

That 'falling sensation' is a classic 'exit sensation', you are now sensing the true NP movement...so you should allow it to deepen, expand, whatever...just follow it...

Oh, thank you again! I've always kinda seen that sensation as a minor annoyance because it pulls my consciousness back (because of the twitch). But if it is a good sign, I'll try to allow it and just go with the flow. I'm fine with any type of OBE, really. I want to do both at some point, but which one happens first doesn't matter as much to me.


@Lumaza: I'll take any sneak peak I can get!  grin
12  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / Re: First steps in phasing with custom hemisync assistance on: June 27, 2019, 02:01:45
Thank you all for replying, especially EscapeVelocity for the depth of your answer of course!  grin

Thank you for your reassuring words and I think I can really make use of your pointers! Exactly what I needed to hear, probably.
I'll experiment with rundowns at the flickering stage and applying an intention. As well as just letting it flow as much as possible, of course.
Should be enough ideas to experiment and progress for a while.

The dexterity of mind thing is very interesting as well. I've heard that Monroe experimented with having people walk around while listening to hemisync
and in some of the books, they mention that the "test subjects" were basically live reporting their experiences to Monroe.
And it's probably the beginning of the "parallel processing" that Tom Campbell always talks about.
I'm definitely hoping to develop some of that dexterity of mind as well, at some point. But first things first, I'll keep that in mind for later.

With regards to the astralpulse threads you mention, I've already noticed that this forum contains a wealth of good information.
It's great that many people have contributed such high quality threads with information that can barely be found elsewhere.

I'm very motivated to practice now. I'll make sure to report back when I have interesting progress, although it might take some time.
13  Astral Projection & Out of Body Experiences / Welcome to Astral Consciousness! / First steps in phasing with custom hemisync assistance on: June 26, 2019, 02:28:55
Hello everyone,

I guess I'll start this off by explaining my phasing practice, then I'll go on to the sensations that I get, followed by my current interpretation of those sensations.

Method

I started by using the Monroe Hemisync tapes to get into Focus 3 at least. But after listening to the same track a few times, it feels so repetitive and slow.
"Imagine your energy conversion box" ... 5 minutes later ... "now open the box" ... why do I have to imagine the box for so long if I wasn't even supposed to open it yet?
I like the concept of binaural beats and hemisync and I think Monroe might have been onto something, but I find the guided meditation along with it just too slow.
So, I analyzed the audio files to find what kind of binaural beats were used and created my own hemisync files, but without any guided meditation.
My current file is 10 minutes of the Focus 3 sound, then 10 minutes crossfade Focus 3 to Focus 10, then 10 minutes of the Focus 10 sound. (total 30 minutes)

So what I do is lie down, listen to the 30 minute track while practicing the noticing method as described by Frank and Xanth.
(I've tried the 30 minute track with mantra meditation as well, but that felt far less successful.)
Also, I usually practice during the day while lying down on a couch.

Sensations

About 5-10 minutes in, I usually get decreased perception of my limbs. Shortly after, I commonly get the feeling my body is floating through water or space. At that point I can still feel my whole body and I know the position of my limbs, it just feels like I'm floating on waves. Hard to describe, but I guess you guys know these sensations...

About 20 minutes in, I start to get "micro-dreams". I'm talking about short dream scenes that last for just a second or two. Sometimes just static images, sometimes they are moving for a second before they vanish.
Sometimes they are accompanied by a falling sensation that wakes me back up because of the whole body twitch.
And that's it, I guess. What's pretty cool imo, is that I can even get all this while sitting upright. Tried it twice and worked both times.

Interpretation

Well, the micro-dreams indicate that I'm pretty close to sleep at that point.
What I'm wondering is mostly whether this is still Focus 3 or already a Focus 10.
My guess is Focus 3 because I can still feel the position of my limbs during all of it.
But during the micro-dreams, I probably forget about my body for a second, so maybe I'm flickering in and out of F10 at that stage.

Questions

Is this Focus 10 already, or still Focus 3?
How do I proceed from there? Just keep doing the noticing technique and hope I'll get further at some point?
Or should I maybe try switching to a rundown visualization at the micro-dream stage?
I'm grateful for any pointers you might have Smiley
14  Astral Chat / Welcome to Members Introductions! / Hello on: June 26, 2019, 01:59:12
Hello everyone!

I'm new to posting on this forum, but I've lurked a lot already! I'd like some comments on my current astral projection practice and progress, so I though I'd introduce myself before making a thread about that.
I've read all of the Monroe books, Frank's practical guide and Xanth's guide as well and I'm a big fan of all of those Smiley
I tend to read a lot and usually forget to actually practice what I've read about...
So I've read also Astral Dynamics, The Phase, the first 2 sections of My Big TOE, and am currently reading Cosmic Journeys.
At this point, I really think I should read less and practice more, haha.

I'm mostly into the phasing approach to astral projection, but without much success, as of yet. But more on that in a separate post.

Glad to be here, thanks everyone for making this forum and awesome place!
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