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1  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Anyone heard from Frank? on: January 20, 2010, 13:12:16
I can gaurentee that Frank was not booted by any forum authorities!! We were all quite worried about him at the time, so much so that we tried to hunt down his real life address and I personally sent an (amusing) postcard to our best guess asking "hey whats up?!" - but never got a reply. Reasons for his dissapearance were never communicated simply because nobody had any idea what they were, trust me on this. Any yes, it was a shame, he was an good guy.
2  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: Where does the time go? on: November 15, 2007, 17:24:05
This is an idea popularised by Art Bell, I believe he has a book called "The Quickening" which goes into this and other "earth ascension changes" in some degree of depth.

Could be tricky to seperate this concept from the consequences of getting older  wink - not to mention effects like diet, length of daylight, % time in certain activities, etc etc.
3  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: Contacting Oversoul on: November 15, 2007, 13:00:52
Late reply, I know.

To contact your higher self, just say Hi. It would be impossible to seperate you from your higher self, as this is the core of your essence. Direct your mind and spirit upwards and go for it, you will never be ignored.

Yeah cant really recommend any particular drippy candles, magick circles or arcane spell books to assist you sorry :p.
4  Metaphysics / Welcome to Metaphysics! / Re: Crystals on: March 17, 2007, 00:53:05
Stookie... I am so jealous  smiley
5  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Demons!....only exsit in the mind on: November 06, 2006, 22:46:33
.... oh and CFTraveler - fantastic point of view, I have never heard it before, very interesting. Thanks for posting.
6  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Demons!....only exsit in the mind on: November 06, 2006, 22:44:57
Few points

It would seem to me that if demons or what ever did exist, that those of us who do haeling and are following a more spiritual path etc would be a threat to thier cause, and as such as such we would be prime targets. I think there is enough diffulcty in this physical world to just live prosper and enoy our selves, with out the help of demonic enteties, thats where I believe the fine balance lies that Rob was pointing out, right here, in our minds. two cents any way God bless M x

Yup, thats true, and it happens. However, there is also the premise that "the most clever thing the devil did was convince mankind he did not exist". So both point of view have some truth, as is often the case.

Lol Rob the first bit of your reply sounds aptly like a bit of your "intellectual masterbation" that you were telling us about, and its never wise asume anything!
I base my open minded views on personal expirience and learning, and dont pressume to know the answer, the evidance I have expirienced has led me to my belliefs.
So these demons you have had first hand expirience of, what did they look like?

When I say intellectual masturbation I am talking about building castles in the sky, ie basing your beliefs upon a lack of evidence, pure speculation, and lets not forget pre-existing desires to believe the world works in a certain way eh? I have no need to do this with respect to negs etc. It is possible that I am wrong about where you are coming from, if so sorry, but I doubt I am.
What do they look like? Well I have never met a "demon" I dont think, but lesser negative entitie(s) yes. That depends only on how they want to present themselves, as Enoch said, and is somewhat irrelevant. However for me they were once like shadows in the pitch black, once like a very black figure standing at the bottom of my bed, etc etc. I have met other people with similar experiences who told me about them with little prompting, and others who talk about similar things ie spiders snakes etc etc - and IMO the collective consciousness argument does not cut it even close.

I don't like watching negative movies or even news report too much, but some people thrive on that stuff....  How much you wanna bet the person that thrives on that, is the one having "problems" with demons?
Wouldnt bet too much if I were you, I only just got a TV the other day (literally) and way prefer uplifting movies to the dark ones. Oh, and martial arts  grin.

Well said Enoch, this stuff does crop up in every religion. The other day I saw a hindu painting with angels in it, it was breathtakingly beautiful.

7  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Demons!....only exsit in the mind on: November 02, 2006, 00:11:36
Demons only exist if fancyiful minds. Can any one evidance any different?

Oh I could provide a whole host of experiences I have had, some subtle and some less so, with negative entities, as well as with a number of other classes of entities, some experiences relating to me some also involving other family members and obvious physical effects on me and them. But I doubt it would count for much in your mind, besides I've said it all before on these forums. I will also assume then that your opinions are based upon just that and not experience. You seem a little too keen to bring things down to intellectual arguments.

However, I will say that it is the height of arrogance to presume anything about what may or may not exist in the universe based upon the argument that "God created it". It presumes an understanding of the mind of God, and a similar level of omniscience would be required just so say what has has never existed or happened on this planet.
However, if you want to get into intellectual debate on this subject, why should demons not exist, given that psychopaths, murderers and rapists exist in the physical? Its really not such a jump.

Mate, its a bloody enormous and excessively complex universe out there!!! Dont get caught in little man thinking of "I think its like this that etc this is possible this is not blah blah blah". I once heard the term "intellectual masturbation" applied to this sort of thinking, and I think it is apt  tongue. IMO its probably an unwise thing to do for ascended masters let alone us inexperienced little children, but hey I guess it leads to learning so go ahead and knock yourself out! Yeah suppose I have probably been down similar roads in the past so I do understand the desire to quantify and specify as much of the universe as you can. Just please do bear in mind that yours and mine are at best educated guesses, especially when it comes to such vast subjects as the one you are tackling (ie the structure and possibilities of the universe)


8  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: *Free Signature Creation Service* on: October 25, 2006, 22:29:16

Hey Bounda,

Thanks for giving it a go Smiley Guess I gave a bit of a tricky task especially if you didnt understand me! It is cool but not exactly me sorry amte  tongue If you do want to give it another go then hey we can discuss, but I understand if not - PM me about it!

Btw I love the way you claim to be "just a kid". I dont know why, but there is a lot of power in that which I cant really put my finger on.


9  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: *Free Signature Creation Service* on: October 23, 2006, 20:45:48

Hey Bounda!

Well, for a kid of 14, you are pretty sharp on the graphics  grin
And hey, I would love a sig! Since I got my name changed to Rob now (woot!), I can concievably use the same name I now use in online gaming (EVE Online FTWZOR!!!!) which is.... MastaRob !!!! (ftw)
So, what ya say??
OK, the next bit might seem a bit self-indulgent. So for for anyone apart from Bounda - you've been warned!
If all is cool, could you do one for me with the same sort of effects you employed so successfuly in that other pic I adored on your other thread??!! General description - the Masta and Rob bits in different shades or something, so the Rob stands out (blue-white perhaps)? The smoky effects could billow to the sides over obscured dark background scenes, dunno whatever you reckon is best hehe, and make it ever so slightly brooding lol. And mebbe with some spiky blond haired fellow in it with kinda crazy blue/green eyes, whoever that might be a reference to <whistles something tuneless and stares at ceiling  grin>.
That be awesome  smiley Go hog wild I am sure it will be awesome!

Very impressed you are offering this btw! And very curious, if you take me up on it, how it turns out Smiley
How DID you make that other image, out of interest???


10  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Re: Ascended Earth Update on: October 23, 2006, 19:02:27
OMG Selski, exactly what I was thinking. Infact since going to the site advertised I am still trying to pick bits of carrot from my keyboard  grin hehehehe

OK OK I joke, (yeah, there were some good belly laughs in there as well  grin), and sorry if you read this and take offence "wisdom". But I do find it all (avatar and "great green broom" most definately included) somewhat hard to take seriously....
11  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: FREE WILL? THERE IS NONE! on: October 22, 2006, 13:01:13
That the point though, innit? Adopted arguments, generally people take them on because you want them to be true, and feel confortable with them, not because any evidence past the extremely flimsy points to them being true.
The same could be said of most of societies beliefs. E.g. people believe that the psychical is rubbish because they feel secure in group mindset, and then have an animalistic target which allows them to put themselves, psychologically speaking, on a higher level than people who believe in such things (TV plays on this biiig time). Pack thinking. Its not that they have any knowledge of the subject at hand.
Which I kinda why I think adopting beliefs is....unwise. Sorry but I think this is important and is why I am saying it so bluntly.
Which is related to why I asked in my last post. I'd like to know, is there evidence, is just more absorbing based on wishful thinking?
(in a nice way!)
(btw I aint calling people who absorb the beliefs being discussed about life planning etc animalistic and brute, just illustrating another mechanism through which the belief absrobtion process occurs and the disastrous consequences it can have at impeding the growth of knowledge)
12  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: 30,000 dollars reward... on: October 22, 2006, 12:52:01
No.  Jokes are jokes.  Talismans are talismans.  The way language works is that there are separate words for separate things and concepts

Thanks Holmes, cleared a lot up for me that did  grin

Now, human beings are not computers.  Human beings are spiritual/psychological Beings.

If you observe your mind for long enough, you will notice that subconscious to conscious prompting is nothing more than a learned response from decisions taken over time and external pressures absorbed through internal processes (imagination etc). And given that the majority of human decisions rely on this prompting combined with personal/animal/spiritual desires, as well as a good proportion of other mechanisms (insecurity etc), well it kinda strips the decision making process down to basics. Try it.
IMO the Human Being is a combined creature of flesh and spirit.

The appropriate Talisman may be all it takes to render a catalytic transformative Event in their psychological underpinning.

Yeah well, a catalytic transformation triggered by something simple eh? The person who is being changed needs to be right on the cusp of changing for that to work. It could be triggered by anything - a sunset, birds wheeling across the sky, the tear on a childs face. In other words, not necessarily by some Christian trinklet, and if by that, then also quite easily by a thousand other things.
13  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: FREE WILL? THERE IS NONE! on: October 21, 2006, 23:20:40
Generally speaking relationships, offspring, jobs, homes and death are already taken care of as part of your earthly path.

Out of curiousity, what do you base this upon?
Ya know, I could believe it possible that we are maybe suppose to do some things. However, given my own life experience, it would appear that even if this is the case, it doesnt always work out.
However, TBH I am more interested in how you justify that argument. Heard it a lot you see, not ever heard anything to back it up tho... go on, suprise me  smiley

14  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: *The Rate My Graphic Thread* on: October 21, 2006, 17:26:31
Ahh mate, your anime ones are ok to kinda cool (5-7 for me mostly - hey, I've been spoiled on anime  smiley) - but that last one? Now thats properly original, really well done, and I love the effects you have employed - it all works really well. Think I'll give it a 9, cos I am stingy! OK OK maybe a 9.5 then....  grin
15  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: 30,000 dollars reward... on: October 21, 2006, 17:16:52

Errr, huh???!! (on many different levels  shocked grin).

OOooOOoooh where to start lets seeee...

OK last first - Romero de Cunha - forget the guy, OK? There have been other threads about him recently and he is not all he claims to be. But he is not, and nor has to to be my knowledge, ever claimed to come from any Christian point of view!
As for the miraculous medal, I say again, HUH?! I do hope that was a joke....or some sort of clever psychology (oops did I blow it?!)

Now, to the meat of the first post:

Your offer of $30K makes me more than uneasy. Oooh I am so temped to delete your post but since there is a tiny tiny fraction of me which thinks a part of you may actually be looking for help (even given that I doubt you have any intention of paying), think I will reply instead (please dont argue it, OK? I guess you could be some tycoon with more money than sense, but otherwise, do please be so kind as to get real!).

Let me just say this first - you will not get a decent exorcist simply by offering $30K, quite quite the opposite. Second - if you really have spent all the $ and had no success, there are two possibilities:
a) They were not really exorcists (given that you had to pay them at all, this is likely).
b) You have made little effort to change yourself for the better. My understanding of the attachment process is that if you are not ready for such a disconnect, ie you have no even attempted to purify yourself in mind body and spirit, even a small - no wait, not even an enormous 5 million man strong army of the worlds most powerful shamans/practitioners/exorcists/etc aint going to be able to do squat, cos even if they remove it, you are still wide open with all the flaws, energetic holes, or "attachment points" that allowed attachment to continue in the first place. So it'd just come back, or something else would, and the only result would be a big hole in your bank balance.
Regular meditation, practicing magick, (eg LBRP), exercising, good healthy food, positive introspection and searching, keeping a clean house and out of the company of bad people, etc etc is where you need to start, not just going to "healer" and expecting them to wave a magickkkal wand and for all your problems to simply poof! and dissapear.
Once you've done all the above, then you might want to tentatively search for a practitioner. Just be careful when you do ok? I've heard the difficult ones are hard to find, and are not always what you expect. I know the most holy man I have even met was in the last place I would have looked, but thats life. Remember the good ones tend to be more modest...
And please dont ever try and offer 30K again!! Hehehe the real ones will run from you and the fakes will grab you by the throat and start sucking..

Sorry to be so blunt but hey, tough love  smiley. I think you understand.
16  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: FREE WILL? THERE IS NONE! on: October 21, 2006, 16:50:37
OK with the destiny Vs free Will argument - Spawn you have already touched upon how I would solve that one. But first - what you say about there being no time in the higher dimensions, I am not sure if that is entirely it, its more that time has less meaning, and its only until you get the highest ultimate dimension that there is no time, whatsoever, nor any individuality etc. Well thats how I see it, and it helps answer this argument for me.

If, on the highest dimension, there is no time, then yes everything is done as its done, everything IS. So that is the "destiny" thing. But from our perspective, we still have to live life, and it is within the frame of our free will that these things happen - and if we say "oh its all destined, so whats the point?" and then spend all our time sitting inside waiting for destiny to appear well be it. So the two points are entirely congruent but at the same time, don't contradict free will.

The argument I find more difficult is deciding how the decision making process works. I mean, I know that ultimately our "soul" is formless and immense, but we live through the filter (mostly?) of our surface personalities, which are in a way the programs running in our brain (the hardwiring), but then if they are just programs then where the hell is free will there?? Can we make any decision which does not run through our brain? Is it then not all just the illusion of free will, since we are following the parameters of programmed personality form??? And what is the method through which we change? Can consciousness really exert that much influence past these silly bloody programs??!

Well OK, it doesn't keep me up at night, but it does concern me  smiley
17  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Inteligence test on: July 23, 2006, 00:18:31
Hhhmm....logic and philosophy.....

To approach understanding of the underlying nature of the universe/God/myself/the absolute of reality, you need to get beyond intellectual constructions, although they can take you some of the way, and are useful, ultimately they cannot penetrate the formless, the ultimate, the indefinable. Only its likeness can, only your consciousness pushing through the veils inside and releasing itself to absolute knowing of absolute-ness can.
The universe is not built on logic  smiley, but we/God/the underlying layer of reality are built on the same foundations. Hence why you have to approach absolutes with the mind, and not with logic or intellect, and this is also why we use paradoxes to break through, because it cuts through logic and helps us go to the core.

Apologies if the above sounds like gibberish. I guess it is, but its as close as I can get with lame words. Some things cannot be explained or talked about but ultimately everyone has to find and know them for themselves. This is the truth of mysticism, which is why it must remain so called "mystical".

is all
18  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Re: Inteligence test on: July 22, 2006, 16:17:49
God is indefineable, and even this is wrong.
Neti, neti.
Not this, not this.

Is All

19  Metaphysics / Welcome to Quantum Physics! / Re: What the bleep do we know!? on: July 18, 2006, 20:17:07
Wave particle duality and the double slit experiment is indeed fascinating. However I do get somewhat peeved when I only hearing one side of an argument, whether its given to me by spiritual minded folk or scientists, or even people who are a mix of both.
I am talking about the way they, in the link above and in places in what the bleep, have simply swept under the rug complete opposing arguments - in this instance, the whole concept that observing something might not be a "consciousness: electron knows it is being observed" thing but simply because the act of observing anything requires interfering with that something (in this case electrons) with something else (eg by shooting photos, other electrons, etc at it which bounce off, and in the bouncing process, interfere with that thing ie change its state, ie you can never know whats somethings state is without changing it, ie it is ultimately impossible to know what something is really doing), and in the double slit experiment this interference may be enough to collapse the wave function for that critical observing instant.
However you look at it, it is, still, very very interesting stuff  grin - I just prefer the full discussion.

Anyway - what reeeeaaaaaalllllly really really REALLY interests me is when in What the Bleep the scientist is talking about getting matter to bilocate, ie exist simulateously in one place and another. Does anyone know anything more about this??? Absolutely fascinating experiement.....would love to hear more...
20  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Difference between drugs and meditating? on: May 09, 2006, 11:25:13
The altered states drugs put you in to can be extreme in certain directions compared to those gotten to through meditation and other practices, ie moves you in a different way. Magical state of consciousness is likewise a very extreme place to be, but you are still much more "you" (normally - magical states in nature can lead to what might be walk in scenarios with elementals which is very different!!!). With drugs you change much more in fundamental levels, which can be useful, or might not be (eg it might change a certain attitude in you which causes you to approach problems in a new way and you then continue this later). And kinda the direction is something you might not think of yourself...
Yeah I find this important - drugs put you into states you would not be able to reach before because you have never experienced them. A good drug fuelled experience will sorta open you up to many new areas of mind, which will stay with you even afterwards. Its like expanding your reportoire, and (cliches aside) expanding the mind. The unfortunately real flipside to this is that some people can get into really really bad states of mind, which can also stay with them, leading to nasty psychological problems. Have seen this happen twice to friends of mine, it aint pretty. However, I we have also discovered some excellent things, and the memories and knowledge gained will be with me forever.
21  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Orbs....? or dust on the camera on: May 02, 2006, 22:22:37
Like greatoutdoors says, its a damn tricky subject. I have heard interviews with pro TV producers (fact or fiction series on UK tele, I never saw it myself but sure looked interesting). Guy said they had orbs on a professional digital video camera which were moving under the directions of a medium. They had pictures of these orbs on the site and they looked a fair bit like the above pictures...

I have also seen orbs moving around on less professional cameras, zigging and zagging...

And some other guy I spoke to aaaages ago on these forums, posted me some pitures he took of orbs, which he saw floating around his house during the day (!!!). Again, looked a lot like above..

But! Some of them must be dust. As was mentioned, diffraction patterns and all (heh didnt think of that well spotted grin). To the person who asked - these are patterns made by light as it diffracts around physical objects...

oh yeah, and for the record, "rods" are almost certainly just insects, the pattern they make is due to the shutter speed of the and I found the topic so interesting for so long! Oh well eh?
22  Astral Chat / Welcome to Astral Chat! / Incredible Kung Fu Master on: April 26, 2006, 12:29:51
Hey! Dont think the vid is levitation, at least thats not what they train for! Its a shaolin skill, they teach themselves to balance on a few fingers, then two, then one. It says he is the only person in the world who can do this, not sure thats true think there are a couple more, but certainly not very many at all.
Downloaded a vid on my computer called "Jet Li - 1994 - Li Lian Jie's Shaolin Kung Fu (Documentary)" which goes into this and loads of other amazing, mind bending, and often totally bizarre shaolin skills  tongue. Well worth a watch IMO.
23  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Technique - personal mental cleansing - IMO important!! on: April 26, 2006, 12:02:01
Quote from: Mark K
Hey Rob,
Glad that post made sense, i just wanted to make sure i understood properly Smiley

Ive used your technique a few times since i read about it. Not so much for specific situations, but just feelings in general.
And it must say, it works a treat Cheesy

Yey!! I am really really pleased to hear you are finding it useful!!
<re-edits first post>

Quote from: Mark K
Through it im learning how to keep a clear head in situations i would usually find uncomfortable and also to keep negative thoughts well undercontrol.

Yes, and I find that it also teaches you to face things in life head on, like everytime my mind automatically turns away from something I now have another automatic machanisms to turn right back at them and stare them down. I guess it also helps build willpower.

Quote from: Mark K

If i were to use it for a specific situation or memory, i find its extra important to make sure you dont let these feelings escape the ball and start doing bad things. So essentially yeah, you really are containing all those bad feelings and basically letting your mind attack them while theyre most vulnerable.

Thanks again Rob,


Yes! When they are most vulnerable, ie when they are most visible in your mind. In a way, your mind then does the hard work for you, bringing all these feeling to the fore which otherwise would be quite difficult to find and pin down.

Anytime  smiley  - thanks for your feedback!

24  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Technique - personal mental cleansing - IMO important!! on: April 24, 2006, 13:11:24
Well. I think your right. This is probably a personal technique, and a personal one only. At least that's how it is for me. I've tried twisting this method in several ways (and times) and I can never seem to get a lasting effect. I suppose I will have to invent my own procedure. So, if anything, I'd like to thank you for inspiring me to do so.

Well, thanks for trying  grin
I do however think its interesting that you still get the negative feelings to dissapear, shame they will return on you though.
Yes! Invent!! And then tell us all what you find!!
I have edited the start of my main post btw to reflect the fact that nobody else seems to be having any major luck with it.
And if anyone has read it, and not found it useful, please do say so! Even a lack of effect is useful for me to know.

25  Spiritual Evolution / Welcome to Spiritual Evolution! / Indigo children on: April 24, 2006, 12:35:08
Hey Kiwi,

Your post made me laugh!!  cheesy Thanks!!

"I've been to a board where the trend was to self-diagnose with Asperger's syndrome... "I have no friends and I spend most of my time alone on the computer. I also think I have a 220 IQ. I definitely have Asperger's syndrome." "


You make some good points though, and I do completely agree with you. Yes, I am sure you are right and there are a lot of people out there who want to be "indigo children" because of the status it ascribes to them. Aye it is very easy to get synical about these things, although its worth remembering that these kids were not the ones who came up with the idea of Indigo and Totem animals to begin with, so perhaps their attitudes should be divorced from the real core of an idea, since they are obviously not the best source of infomation on such topics.
Example, when I was in school, some younger kids came to me, knowing I was good at chemistry, and wanted me to help them make explosives. They had a piece of paper with some symbols written on it in basical formula type style which sure "looked" scientific, but beared little resemblence to anything. They had no idea about the basic principles of getting explosive chemical reactions, and were just caught up in the idea of being crazy scientific explosive experts making things go BANG! Should this then detract from chemistry, just because these kids thought they knew the topic but infact knew nothing? My point is, that with any group that has elements which appear "cool", you will always get silly kids masquerading as a part of it, but since they are really and obviously just silly kids, you have to look beyond them and not let said sillyness bring down the entire topic.
This whole "quackery" thing in areas such parapsychology and paranormal has tarnished the image of these areas for a long time in the eyes of much of mainstream science, which is such an enormous shame.

Until you get someone to check your aura and manifest some kind of superpower

Hmm, again I detect a note of synicism.....
But anyway, Indigos are not supposed to have "superpowers", they are not supposed to be a completely new species or anything....which makes the whole area very difficult to prove, because its more of a general trend thing, ie you are getting more kids with x y and z personality traits and a tendancy towards developed psychic abilities, but the latter is very hard to get any scientist to prove, and the former can often be explained away as societal changes.


Where's the platypus community?

I actually used Donnis (old mod from aroud here) Dreamtime card divination system and came up with platypus as totem animal!!! I thought it a bit strange until ai read the description. Now I think its great  grin, and an extremely accurate picture. And on a personal note, I would say I do fit many of the Indigo child traits, with some interesting synchronicities on that note, but I am a scientists at heart too and aint gonna say "I am Indigo woo woo look at me everyone!!", not least because I am not convinced either, but also because I hope I am not that egotistical  smiley . Also i think its more important to be defined as who you are than borrow your definition from a group.


Hey, I think you might like the movie, it's not made by "hollywood"
it's very different from hollywood, I think it went straight to video.
btw, I think you just might be an Indigo.  

Lol, now I am the one jumping to conclusions  wink.
Heheh thanks.....all I can say is thats its real hard typing with all these fingers dropping off.....damn there goes another!! Down to 4 now......but at least I have gotten used to the smell  cheesy

IMO: lack of authority? more like lack of love... ADD = lack of nutrition.

Yup, agree!
With ADD, I have said this many time before I am sure, but I always always think of Bruce Lee who, if born in the US today, would without a doubt have been classified in this group, doped to the eyeballs with Ritalin, and probably have grown up to be a toilet cleaner or something. But instead he channeled his overflowing energy into martial arts, and became the ultimate Grande Master of Kickass  grin .
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